So people can bail and instagib you now??

[Bags]

I was killing a lightning as a prowler and I guess he bailed, and the game placed him behind me (because fuck logic I guess, we were right next to each other so he had no place to bail but it still let him bail) and then I died instantly from full hp to 0 from a tank mine.

is this intended? you can put mines on stationary targets and they instagib? and you can bail through vehicles?

man I just thought the game was fun again :rofl: but uh it's apparently worsely bug ridden and horribly balanced than it was in december

or is this intended? ??

[Ghoest9]

Or maybe tank fights so close that you rub is an oddity that allows for other oddities?

[Aurmanite]

Sometimes stuff like this happens. It's not really 'meant to' but it's all part of the laws of probability.

Why the feels about a random event, bro?

[ChipMHazard]

Yes, mines don't trigger because of movement or pressure. They are basicly just AT proximity mines. They shouldn't instagib you if you have enough health, if he was actually only using one mine.

[Hamma]

We have had several threads on this.

In short yes, you can place a mine and pretty much instakill tanks.

In my opinion it's extremely stupid and should not be allowed at all. Just waiting for someone to say learn to play as an answer to putting down a mine under an object they are standing next to and thinking that's something that should be normal. :lol:

[Ghodere]

An enemy bailing from a nearly-destroyed vehicle seems to take a few moments to render. This is long enough for a well-placed rocket or mine to be placed before the enemy is ever seen.

[Aurmanite]

Every single time my tanks get killed by mines I stop and think to myself, "I can become 100% invulnerable to this if I choose to do so."

So when I die to a mine, I realize that I've made a choice and that death is the result of it.

More people should do that, and come to peace with themselves, rather than complaining about a tool to gives infantry a bit of power against vehicles.

[Hamma]

So it's ok for infantry to just place something that is supposed to be a stationary passive destructive device underneath an active vehicle thereby making it an active method to kill thing?

The device should not be used in that manner that's not the use it was intended for. It's an overpowered ability of mines because of their very nature.

[Aurmanite]

So it's ok for infantry to just place something that is supposed to be a stationary passive destructive device underneath an active vehicle thereby making it an active method to kill thing?

Yeah.


The device should not be used in that manner that's not the use it was intended for. It's an overpowered ability of mines because of their very nature.

I disagree.

Mines are meant to destroy vehicles. They're doing that quite well right now. If you die to mines it's: A) Because you drove over them (what you have defined as the intended function of the mine), or B) You were stationary long enough for the most vulnerable unit on the field to get with in inches of your machine of death.

You shouldn't let B happen at all costs. If it does, you should accept the death as your fault for not certing invulnerability, and/or succumbing to someone who has out played you.

[Ghoest9]

So it's ok for infantry to just place something that is supposed to be a stationary passive destructive device underneath an active vehicle thereby making it an active method to kill thing?

The device should not be used in that manner that's not the use it was intended for. It's an overpowered ability of mines because of their very nature.

Its not really any different than sticky bombs etc - some of the oldest anti-tank methods of all.

That said Im in favor of a 1 or 2 second set up time for all mines.

[Baneblade]

That's what happens when you have enter/exit teleporters and not proper animation.

[Varsam]

Mines are meant to destroy vehicles. They're doing that quite well right now. If you die to mines it's: A) Because you drove over them (what you have defined as the intended function of the mine), or B) You were stationary long enough for the most vulnerable unit on the field to get with in inches of your machine of death.

You shouldn't let B happen at all costs. If it does, you should accept the death as your fault for not certing invulnerability, and/or succumbing to someone who has out played you.

No. Mines in the traditional sense are not primarily for destruction (though they're quite capable of doing so), but for area denial and zoning.

Mines in ps2 should not even be called mines. They are vehicle killing superbombs that do not necessitate premeditated placement or lengthy setup process, and can even be thrown from on high to gib vehicles below. They are incredibly easy to use, and the reward for doing so is disproportionately high.

I use these things all the time. I abuse the shit out of their potential killing power. Why? Because the game rewards me for doing so. And I will continue to take advantage for as long as I can, because that's what the game design encourages me to do.

That being said, mines are ridiculously op against vehicles without mine guard, and are basically useless against those with it. The disparity here is just too great. The prevalence, ease of use, and difficulty of detection of av mines basically necessitates mine guard on all vehicles. This limits player choice and leads to stagnant game play.

[Bags]

He might have used two, IDK I had 90% health before he bailed. All I know is I killed the lightning, didn't get an actual kill, realized he had bailed, and he was behind me. I went third person and exploded.

there was no indication that he bailed and I did not see him leave the vehicle, so my guess is the game bugged out and put him behind me. Unless he managed to chuck a mine or two, and then run all the way around me, and then be about 10 feet from me in about a second...

[MOUNTAIN][lightning][prowler][him]

instead of doing - "you can't bail there's no room!"

But yeah the whole incident was mind boggling unfair and buggy. Bleh. What's the point of C4?

[Aurmanite]

No. Mines in the traditional sense are not primarily for destruction (though they're quite capable of doing so), but for area denial and zoning.

Mines in ps2 should not even be called mines. They are vehicle killing superbombs that do not necessitate premeditated placement or lengthy setup process, and can even be thrown from on high to gib vehicles below. They are incredibly easy to use, and the reward for doing so is disproportionately high.

I use these things all the time. I abuse the shit out of their potential killing power. Why? Because the game rewards me for doing so. And I will continue to take advantage for as long as I can, because that's what the game design encourages me to do.

That being said, mines are ridiculously op against vehicles without mine guard, and are basically useless against those with it. The disparity here is just too great. The prevalence, ease of use, and difficulty of detection of av mines basically necessitates mine guard on all vehicles. This limits player choice and leads to stagnant game play.

Seems like a lot of people run without mine guard, probably because the other options are more attractive in their opinion. I don't run mine guard on anything but the Sunderer, as it is the only vehicle that must be stationary to perform its function. This is a choice that I, and everyone else has to make when loading out their vehicles. It wasn't an easy choice either. It seems to me that when the options available require serious consideration, we have a good system.

I agree that mines should be a little easier to detect. In the original Planetside you could see them before you were in range to set them off if you were in first person. That should be the case in game too, making players choose between driving in third person for situational awareness, or driving in first person to detect any mines.

The rest of your post doesn't really say anything of value about the use of mines in game. Using tools effectively is part of being a good player, you aren't abusing anything. Besides, even though you can get relatively steady kills with mines, they definitely do no make up the largest portion of your kills/xp/etc. That fully loaded Sunderer pinata you popped that one time included.

If calling them mines upsets you so much, call them something else. I won't mind I promise. I.E.Ds, anti-vehicular explosives, triangles of boom, whatever.

[ChipMHazard]

But yeah the whole incident was mind boggling unfair and buggy. Bleh. What's the point of C4?
From what I've seen, the point of C4 seems to be to take out turrets, infantry and MAXs', primarily MAXs'.

[Aurmanite]

C4 is way, way, waaaay more powerful than mines.

[Bags]

That's scary because a mine pretty much 1 shot me. Or two shot me if it was two.


Though my return was not all bad, the guns sound a lot better~

[Helwyr]

Mines should have some sort of setting/activation time and only detonate when something moves over them, not stationary targets. In addition while perhaps not realistic, Mines should not detonate when fired upon/damaged, this would help in making it harder to TK Sunderers.

[Aurmanite]

That's scary because a mine pretty much 1 shot me. Or two shot me if it was two.


Though my return was not all bad, the guns sound a lot better~

How can you be BR 26 and not know that it takes 2 mines to kill a vehicle without mine guard?

Genuine question, not trying to be a jerk.

[Obstruction]

ok so this is why the tank mine thread goes on forever and is now happening again.

just get mineguard until it is either changed or not changed. eventually your bitching will get them to change AT mines back to how they were before and you'll all be happy again when no one ever uses them just like they didn't when they sucked.

[Sifer2]

C4 is way, way, waaaay more powerful than mines.


Debatable. I know for a fact yesterday I put a single C4 on the back of a Lightning that was sitting there. It didn't kill it which surprised me. I'm pretty sure a single Tank Mine will destroy a Lightning no problem. And 2 Mines will destroy anything but a Galaxy. So they are definitely stronger than C4 against vehicles. You can also put one AT mine in front of a AP mine, and both will explode which can kill a small room full of Infantry.

Basically all it comes do is that AT mines can be throw down faster than C4. Cost a bit less resources. Stay around triggering automatically rather than needing manual detonation. Do more damage to vehicles. But can have their damage reduced by the Mineguard cert. That is their only weakness compared to C4. Personally I think a vehicle should be moving to trigger the explosion.

[Neutral Calypso]

We have had several threads on this.

In short yes, you can place a mine and pretty much instakill tanks.

In my opinion it's extremely stupid and should not be allowed at all. Just waiting for someone to say learn to play as an answer to putting down a mine under an object they are standing next to and thinking that's something that should be normal. :lol:

*places two mines on your tank, then SHOOTS the mines to make sure they explode*

Fixed. :groovy:

[Aurmanite]

Debatable. I know for a fact yesterday I put a single C4 on the back of a Lightning that was sitting there. It didn't kill it which surprised me. I'm pretty sure a single Tank Mine will destroy a Lightning no problem. And 2 Mines will destroy anything but a Galaxy. So they are definitely stronger than C4 against vehicles. You can also put one AT mine in front of a AP mine, and both will explode which can kill a small room full of Infantry.

Basically all it comes do is that AT mines can be throw down faster than C4. Cost a bit less resources. Stay around triggering automatically rather than needing manual detonation. Do more damage to vehicles. But can have their damage reduced by the Mineguard cert. That is their only weakness compared to C4. Personally I think a vehicle should be moving to trigger the explosion.

It takes 2 C4 to kill vehicles. C4 does not do directional damage, it's the same whether you place it on the top sides or back.

The number of situations C4 can be used is far greater than mines.

[Figment]

I've actually seen a vid of a guy putting mines on top of a reaver and toppling over above tanks and using them as bombs.

Quite creative.

But "mines" my arse.

[Figment]

Oh and on topic, technically they place two or three mines, it takes a short while For the first to arm itself it seems and then it sets of all of them at once.

The explosion can also be triggered by other explosions, sometimes even if they hit on the other side of a vehicle it seems (probably some line of sight somewhere though). My c4 and mines often explode while I'm placing them to friendly fire - usualy instagibbing.

[Bags]

How can you be BR 26 and not know that it takes 2 mines to kill a vehicle without mine guard?

Genuine question, not trying to be a jerk.

I use the magrider on VS, never hit a mine.

[Carrionghoul]

Currently I feel anti tank mines (aka anti vehicle proximity mines) need to be reworked into a directional explosion (similar to the TR claymore) with the explosion radius being about 4 feet and the direction being straight up. This would hopefully stop players from dropping them on top of vehicles to destroy them and from putting them on top of prox mines for a greater aoe affect.

Now, this solution does not end the "they should not explode on stationary targets" debate. I personally feel that if they did not explode on stationary targets, players would just shoot them or drop a grenade as they back pedal to ensure they would go off. Even if you kill the player before that happens he just respawns as an infiltrator and comes back to finish the job (although I suppose its better than nothing).

It might also help to raise their cost to being on par with c4.

As to the OP, I feel your pain. It's frustrating when something like that happens. If you drive tanks often then at some point an infantryman will get the better of you (although there are always players who will deny it). Also, weird stuff occasionally happens in video games. Invest in some mine guard (even level 3 works well) and try to always keep moving. Maybe next time you'll run him over instead (one can always hope).

[Baneblade]

With all the ways infantry have to kill my tank, I've stooped to using HE. So now I die to other tanks instead of ripping them apart.

[Neutral Calypso]

Mines should have some sort of setting/activation time and only detonate when something moves over them, not stationary targets. In addition while perhaps not realistic, Mines should not detonate when fired upon/damaged, this would help in making it harder to TK Sunderers.

When you got to TK a sunderer, it is because somebody parked it in a crap place.

[Sturmhardt]

Meh.. Mines doing c4's job sucks.

.sent via phone.

[Varsam]

Seems like a lot of people run without mine guard, probably because the other options are more attractive in their opinion. I don't run mine guard on anything but the Sunderer, as it is the only vehicle that must be stationary to perform its function. This is a choice that I, and everyone else has to make when loading out their vehicles. It wasn't an easy choice either. It seems to me that when the options available require serious consideration, we have a good system.

Agreed. I think you're right that on most vehicles it's a tougher choice. The sundy is a unique case as you say. Unfortunately the sundy is such an important piece of equipment on the battlefield (entire sieges can be broken by taking down a single sundy), it places special emphasis on mines and their relationship with sundies, though I think sundies in general need a rework (right now there's no reason not to take AMS) to make gameplay choices more dynamic.

I agree that mines should be a little easier to detect. In the original Planetside you could see them before you were in range to set them off if you were in first person. That should be the case in game too, making players choose between driving in third person for situational awareness, or driving in first person to detect any mines.

But then we walk a fine line between mines being effective tools for area denial and mines being useless because suddenly everyone can see them. I currently don't have any ideas on how to get around this. Maybe make mines easy to see, but indestructible? Then allow engi repair tools to disarm mines.

The rest of your post doesn't really say anything of value about the use of mines in game. Using tools effectively is part of being a good player, you aren't abusing anything. Besides, even though you can get relatively steady kills with mines, they definitely do no make up the largest portion of your kills/xp/etc. That fully loaded Sunderer pinata you popped that one time included.

Also admittedly true. I just wanted to emphasize their ease of use.

[Babyfark McGeez]

These throwable tank mines are stupid crap. Deploy them like Ammo Packs and it wouldn't feel so cheap.

Also Infantry one-hit-killing vehicles is lame in general and shouldn't be possible.

[Aurmanite]

These throwable tank mines are stupid crap. Deploy them like Ammo Packs and it wouldn't feel so cheap.

Also Infantry one-hit-killing vehicles is lame in general and shouldn't be possible.

Stupid crap...lame...cheap.

Solid position you have there.

[MaxDamage]

Often bail and fire a rocket into the rear of the tank that finally got my tank.
Legit.

[Figment]

Stupid crap...lame...cheap.

Solid position you have there.

A value judgment is something different from argumentation.



Not sure why you're confusing the two as it shouldn't ever be considered to be the full position of a player: the player has reasons for it that lead to a value judgment.


You know, you could have asked some indepth questions instead to understand why the position results in that value judgment:

"Why is throwing cheap?"
"Why is placing it like an ammo pack not?"

Then you'd quickly find out the argumentation behind the value judgment.



And uhm, value judgments are opinion and cannot be "wrong" and always valuable - just less valuable if not visibly connected to argumentation (mind the argument may have already been provided by others or in another thread). If this is how you treat people giving feedback though, by ridiculing them, I don't expect you to ever make good product improvements.

[Baneblade]

Stop waving cake at the proletariat Figgy, you know it won't end well.

[VGCS]

An enemy bailing from a nearly-destroyed vehicle seems to take a few moments to render. This is long enough for a well-placed rocket or mine to be placed before the enemy is ever seen.

Interesting....

[Aurmanite]

A value judgment is something different from argumentation.



Not sure why you're confusing the two as it shouldn't ever be considered to be the full position of a player: the player has reasons for it that lead to a value judgment.


You know, you could have asked some indepth questions instead to understand why the position results in that value judgment:

"Why is throwing cheap?"
"Why is placing it like an ammo pack not?"

Then you'd quickly find out the argumentation behind the value judgment.



And uhm, value judgments are opinion and cannot be "wrong" and always valuable - just less valuable if not visibly connected to argumentation (mind the argument may have already been provided by others or in another thread). If this is how you treat people giving feedback though, by ridiculing them, I don't expect you to ever make good product improvements.

This isn't second grade. Opinions can be wrong.

I'm sure you enjoyed writing your post. You love to write them posts, Figment. It's your favorite.

[Baneblade]

Opinions can be wrong.

Feel free to expand on that.

[Babyfark McGeez]

Stupid crap...lame...cheap.

Solid position you have there.

I stated the reason for my opinion allready numerous times in the different threads about this topic, everything has been said and debated to death on this matter.
Therefore: Check the other threads instead of trying to be "TEH WITTY GUY" and sounding like a dork who doesn't know the meaning of opinion.

[Rothnang]

Tank Battle in Beta: Get out and repair your tank in the middle of the fight.
Tank Battle after Launch: Tanks shoot each other.
Tank Battles now: Get out and landmine the other tank.