Gate Shields are actualy a vunerability.

[MrMak]

Honestly i dont see why gate shields stop vehicles and weapon fire but all infantry just pass right through. I would understand if there were no ther otions to bypass it but there are loads!

Especialy the AMP stations when there are outright gaps in the walls for some reason.

I say make gate shield stop infantry. Honestly i think this is the simplest possible fix to base defenseability. As far as the infantry is concerened those arent even chokepoints as it stands now.


There are PLENTY of ways to get through and shut them down. Light Assaults and Gate Shield Defuser equiped Sunderers being the most obvious (Although SOE needs to finaly fix this thing so it works 100% not 50% of the time). And lets not forget about gal drops and *gasp* going around. I would even go as far as to add a new one ,a gate shield defuser utility for the flash that would require the driver to be an infiltrator like the upcoming Wraith module.

[cKerensky]

I...actually kinda like this idea. Gives LAs a better role, GSDs become more important, and infiltrators can infiltrate.

This gets my vote, man.

[Gatekeeper]

Yeah, this is actually a fair point - since infantry can actually use the shield as cover, it's often actually an advantage for attacking infantry.

Encouraging galaxies and sundies to be used as pure transports for breaching the courtyard sounds like a great change to me.

[Aaron]

As radical as your idea might seem, I think it makes sense. Sundies and Gals need more strategic value, and bases need more defensibility.

[MrBloodworth]

I See no problem with Infantry passing through shield walls.

[moosepoop]

i think its stupid that infantry can pass thru these force fields, an entire zerg basically flows into your base.

you cant have a few people defend against many like higby claimed in early interviews, if you allows everyone to steamroll thru a bases gate.

[Phantomdestiny]

i love this idea because it actually gives a function to the walls . Right now walls are just obstacles they should be tools for the defenders to defend and not just obstacles

[Gatekeeper]

Actually another idea that might help this work would be to allow Infiltrators to pass through the gate shields while cloaked, but to block all other infantry.

[KaskaMatej]

My idea is to make gate shields two stage shields, like the vehicle bay shields are but instead of completely preventing enemy units through, if one of the two generators is still up you can walk through them as infantry but cannot drive through with vehicles.

So if one generator goes down, vehicles can't just swarm the courtyard just yet but infantry can fight to keep that gen down while attacking the other gen too.

[Gatekeeper]

My idea is to make gate shields two stage shields, like the vehicle bay shields are but instead of completely preventing enemy units through, if one of the two generators is still up you can walk through them as infantry but cannot drive through with vehicles.

So if one generator goes down, vehicles can't just swarm the courtyard just yet but infantry can fight to keep that gen down while attacking the other gen too.

That's also a fun idea, although in that case would it be worth making the shield at the base's main building work the same way? That would help to make the game feel consistent and logical - and so make it easier for new players to figure out.

[CrimsonTemplar]

Honestly i dont see why gate shields stop vehicles and weapon fire but all infantry just pass right through. I would understand if there were no ther otions to bypass it but there are loads!

Especialy the AMP stations when there are outright gaps in the walls for some reason.

I say make gate shield stop infantry. Honestly i think this is the simplest possible fix to base defenseability. As far as the infantry is concerened those arent even chokepoints as it stands now.


There are PLENTY of ways to get through and shut them down. Light Assaults and Gate Shield Defuser equiped Sunderers being the most obvious (Although SOE needs to finaly fix this thing so it works 100% not 50% of the time). And lets not forget about gal drops and *gasp* going around. I would even go as far as to add a new one ,a gate shield defuser utility for the flash that would require the driver to be an infiltrator like the upcoming Wraith module.

This heretic spews blasphemy! Blasphemy!

Seriously however I do agree, this would be simple thing to implement and make the walls a tiny bit more important, than they are now. But I agree more with Kaska and have it a two-stage generator set up.

[CraazyCanuck]

A simple and obvious adjustment you think they would have had from the start, eh? It would bring roles back to role warfare if they adjusted it with specific classes in mind as the counters to thsoe shields as suggested above.

SOE, get'er done!

[Sledgecrushr]

A great idea!!! +1

[ThatGoatGuy]

As daChronic once said, "JIHAD BUSS!"

[SolLeks]

Fund it!

[Stanis]

How about expand that for a bit of strategic play and more tactics ..

Bases connected to the warpgate: shield stops infantry.
teleport rooms: shields block enemy fire.

Bases not connected: shield doesn't stop infantry.
teleport rooms: shields don't block enemy fire.


I'd like it either way. We need some meaning to a warpgate link.

[SirDart]

If you just flat out stop infantry in general from penetrating the base through shields, I don't think it would make the zerg very happy. Mainly due to simple logistics of leaving an entire denial of area for certain classes, which would be great for defense, but would be impractical for offense.

I believe it could work if there is some other offensive capability added, perhaps an elevator vehicle attachment (similar to those fixed up/down lifts today), perhaps as an attachment to a light vehicle, like the lightning, or the new buggies coming up?

This would allow any class to scale a wall, but also allow enemies to more easily destroy these handy vehicles. It would also help to turn the battle into a more historical siege warfare that has been made famous in the movies!

[bpostal]

Good idea, add it to the Amp Station benefit. Make the shield room(s) a bit larger with some cover, or put them inside the three story buildings and I can see it only adding to the fun.

If you just flat out stop infantry in general from penetrating the base through shields, I don't think it would make the zerg very happy. Mainly due to simple logistics of leaving an entire denial of area for certain classes, which would be great for defense, but would be impractical for offense....

I applaud you for thinking of other people, but my personal thoughts on the zerg is "Fuck 'em"
Go get a Gal, drop a dozen people on top of a gen and take it down! More defense is what's needed for just about every single base anyway.

[Artimus]

My idea is to make gate shields two stage shields, like the vehicle bay shields are but instead of completely preventing enemy units through, if one of the two generators is still up you can walk through them as infantry but cannot drive through with vehicles.

So if one generator goes down, vehicles can't just swarm the courtyard just yet but infantry can fight to keep that gen down while attacking the other gen too.

This I like.

[Nathaniak]

Good idea.

[Ghoest9]

They keep sunderers out.
That matters.

[ElSol]

Honestly i dont see why gate shields stop vehicles and weapon fire but all infantry just pass right through. I would understand if there were no ther otions to bypass it but there are loads!

Especialy the AMP stations when there are outright gaps in the walls for some reason.

I say make gate shield stop infantry. Honestly i think this is the simplest possible fix to base defenseability. As far as the infantry is concerened those arent even chokepoints as it stands now.


There are PLENTY of ways to get through and shut them down. Light Assaults and Gate Shield Defuser equiped Sunderers being the most obvious (Although SOE needs to finaly fix this thing so it works 100% not 50% of the time). And lets not forget about gal drops and *gasp* going around. I would even go as far as to add a new one ,a gate shield defuser utility for the flash that would require the driver to be an infiltrator like the upcoming Wraith module.

I like this idea a lot. Gives LA, Galxy and Shield Defuser a bigger role. But they should make sure that you can not bypass the shields easily. There should be no gap between the gates and the walls. And there should be no gap between the walls and the rocks. Something that you can find on some places on the maps.
I don't know if the entrances to AMP stations that have no shield right now should get one, but at least you have to make shure that you do not can bring an Sunderer through there.
Also HotDropping becomes a problem then, I think.

[Baneblade]

Infantry permiable gate shields worked in PlanetSide One, but only because bases were so small.

Double up on generators and go with the OP's idea.

[MrBloodworth]

Infantry permiable gate shields worked in PlanetSide One, but only because bases were so small.

I Don't think that's it, its more due to how many options in PS2 there are to circumvent all defenses.

<GAME-THAT-SHALL-NOT-BE-NAMED> had like, maybe 4 or 5 ways into a base/courtyard. PS2 is the CoD "every direction" style maps. Also keep in mined, not all bases had gate shields at all times, that required users to make that happen.

[Rivenshield]

Yeah, this is actually a fair point - since infantry can actually use the shield as cover, it's often actually an advantage for attacking infantry.
Yep yep yep. And then it comes down, and the armor floods into the courtyard and the ritual massacre takes place, and the defenders have to run a gauntlet of vehicle spam to get to the point they're supposed to be defending... that or take the gopher hole (if available) that spits you out into a circle of attacking infantry who will farm your ass in a half second flat.

There's no resourcefulness, no novel tactics, no coordination called for.... no Gal drops, no coordinated LA assaults over the walls... just the tiresome zerg-grind. Even having different gate gens for both infantry and armor would be an improvement.

I Don't think that's it, its more due to how many options in PS2 there are to circumvent all defenses.
Yeah. Multiple chokepoints are fine. None at all is a game-design disaster. People like fighting at the Crown and in the various Biolabs for a reason.

[RSphil]

been saying this since beta. if the shields let only the holding faction through then the LA's would have something to do. seeing a load of LA's bouncing a wall to take out a generator would be great.

not a very defensive shield if it lets enemy in tbh lol

[Binkley]

I like the idea.

Shields are a problem, because there are so many kinds and they are widely misunderstood by new players.

Some you can't walk through or shoot through.
Some you can walk through, but you can't shoot through.
Some you can't walk through but you can shoot through.
Some you can walk through and shoot through.
(and that doesn't even include vehicles, which further complicate this)

Any move to simplify this is a good one.

[Sifer2]

I could see this change being balanced though in reality it would just be a LA zerg. Since most of the games population is free players that don't have Gate Diffuser or would be participating in a Gal drop. It might even have the unintended effect of making the base harder to defend, as now 100% of your enemies will be LA's jumping up randomly all over the walls in various places instead of streaming predictably through two entrances. Which actually sounds really fun though. Kind of like a castle defense where enemies keep throwing up ladders, and are climbing the walls.

Problem is the AMP station still sucks because of:

Outdoor spawnroom easily camped.

Totally open to attack from the air. Bring lots of Rocket Pods, and Libs and the defenders are dead.

[Hamma]

It would be interesting to see this change just to see how it effects fights.

[Mietz]

Didn't we have infantry impassable gate-shields in beta?
Thats why the gaps at their base existed in the first place.

Afaik the problem was that the gap was so small and predictable that two tanks could completely lock down the infantry gate-push by spamming HE into those gaps. (LAs afaik can't reach over the shield from ground-level)
It proved to be too much of a choke point.

Someone correct me if im wrong on this.

[CrazEpharmacist]

I agree! +1

[Chewy]

Didn't we have infantry impassable gate-shields in beta?
Thats why the gaps at their base existed in the first place.

Afaik the problem was that the gap was so small and predictable that two tanks could completely lock down the infantry gate-push by spamming HE into those gaps. (LAs afaik can't reach over the shield from ground-level)
It proved to be too much of a choke point.

Someone correct me if im wrong on this.

Don't know either, but that sounds like what happened.

I for one would love to see better shields. I NEVER seen a good LA push jumping walls in all my defending of bases. It's always just running through the shield or using the back doors with maybe a few going over a wall or getting high ground. Hell, it's rare for me to see LAs use rooftops other than to get shot without cover. Its also a rare thing to see the non outfit players manning walls outside of the towers.

Come to think of it. Why the hell are those back doors so damned big? Iv watched every land vehicle in the game use them to enter a base a few time 2 by 2. Should at least be some road blocks there to stop anything bigger than a flash.

[MrMak]

Problem is the AMP station still sucks because of:

Outdoor spawnroom easily camped.


Heare is another one of my pet peeves.

USE THE BLOODY TUNNELS PEOPLE.

[CraazyCanuck]

I love those bloody tunnels. I think people just forget about them most of the time out of habit. Need a big neon arrow to light up and point toward the tunnel stairs when the base is under attack.

[Rothnang]

Making the walls tighter wouldn't actually matter one bit as long as someone can just walk up, drop a spawn beacon and airdrop themselves an infinite number of times afterward.

[MrBloodworth]

How it should be:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1725660/PS2/SOI.png

How it currently is:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1725660/PS2/NoSOI.png

[Figment]

Didn't we have infantry impassable gate-shields in beta?

Yes.

Thats why the gaps at their base existed in the first place.

No. At the time, a lot of the bases didn't even have walls, but mixtures between walls and rocks. Peris AMP station for instance only had walls on the south side.

Afaik the problem was that the gap was so small and predictable that two tanks could completely lock down the infantry gate-push by spamming HE into those gaps. (LAs afaik can't reach over the shield from ground-level)
It proved to be too much of a choke point.

By LA I presume you mean Light Assault? Not my recollection, there were no choke points for LA and there still aren't any. >.> The gate shield has always been about as high as the tower's lower section, which can easily be reached with LA.

LA are currently hindered more than before with the new wall design - even if it's not really hindering LA much.

Someone correct me if im wrong on this.

Done. :p





Speaking of shielded gates. I can drive over some of the lower shielded gates with my Sunderer using a ramp on the side of it. >.>

There are also other bases where it's easy to get a vehicle into the central compound.

[Babyfark McGeez]

Ymir(? The one with walls around...and snow reaching right up to it) Biolab on Esamir yesterday, parked my sunderer ontop of a building behind the walls. Shields were up.

Base/Shield design still is meh.

[Mietz]

No. At the time, a lot of the bases didn't even have walls, but mixtures between walls and rocks. Peris AMP station for instance only had walls on the south side.

Yeah but I seem to remember we still had impassable gate shields at amps way way later.
They were the same type as the current inner facility amp shields with the icons on it.
They afaik were also tied to the courtyard gens.

I'm trying to confirm this really hard but i cant find a beta gameplay vid where the gens aren't already down.


By LA I presume you mean Light Assault? Not my recollection, there were no choke points for LA and there still aren't any. >.> The gate shield has always been about as high as the tower's lower section, which can easily be reached with LA.

LA are currently hindered more than before with the new wall design - even if it's not really hindering LA much.


I didn't mean chokes for LA, but rather chokes for infantry that wasn't LA going through the gaps at the base of the shield.
I was wrong with the LA not being able to jump the shield, although, wasn't there an additional barricade/walkway over the shields that was higher than the towers lower section once?

All my beta and live experience sort of blends together into an incoherent mess.

[moosepoop]

give engineers tank traps.

[Figment]

Yeah but I seem to remember we still had impassable gate shields at amps way way later.
They were the same type as the current inner facility amp shields with the icons on it.
They afaik were also tied to the courtyard gens.

I'm trying to confirm this really hard but i cant find a beta gameplay vid where the gens aren't already down.

Oh yeah they were "solid" at first. They're just vehicle barriers now.

I didn't mean chokes for LA, but rather chokes for infantry that wasn't LA going through the gaps at the base of the shield.

Yeah was only refering to your LA comment. But yes, think the other gaps were initialy the only points of entry (that and tunnels and snow ramps).

I was wrong with the LA not being able to jump the shield, although, wasn't there an additional barricade/walkway over the shields that was higher than the towers lower section once?

Can't remember that, mostly because I complete and utterly ignored any shielded courtyard entrances I suppose... :p

[Gonefshn]

Could have a suit mod for infantry that allows them to pass through gate shields. This way anyone enemy passing through the shield has to forego nano weave armor, flak armor, adv shield capacitor etc.

Could be a way to meet in the middle. it would still allow infantry a way to pass through but puts them at a disadvantage by removing better armor options and decreasing the number of people who can pass through at any given moment.

[Figment]

It's been suggested to have only infiltrators pass through the shield.


Not sure how I feel about that though. Just increases the role of LA and infil while diminishing the role of engis, medics, MAX units and HA.

[Dougnifico]

I say, make the shield impassable by infantry, but let infantry bullets though. lol

[Gatekeeper]

It's been suggested to have only infiltrators pass through the shield.

Not sure how I feel about that though. Just increases the role of LA and infil while diminishing the role of engis, medics, MAX units and HA.

Not going to argue with that, but I do think giving Infiltrators and LA more of a role besides just killing folks is a good idea.

Medics and Engis already have useful non-killing roles they can perform (while also being capable killers) and MAX and HA are effectively specialists at violence - which gives them plenty to do already.

I guess you could argue that MAXs have less to do than HA though, so how about allowing 'shield breaching' as a MAX special ability? That'd be a fairly interesting trade-off, having them breach courtyards early in support of LA and Infiltrators - but in doing so separating them from Engi and Medic backup.

[Figment]

That could be a reasonable strength for MAXes. Could support gate crasher sundies that way.

For infils I mostly would like the objectives to move into more defensible areas that even LAs have some trouble getting to and get perma cloak at the cost of killing power (current main weapons).

[VaderShake]

How about a comprimise, make it so there are 2 generators power the shield 1 which powers the "infantry shield" (yellow) and 1 that powers the "vehicle Shield" (blue) creating the full Shield (Green). WHen your attacking you can take out the infantry shield allowing infantry to pass through but keeping out vehicles, or the vehicle shield allowing vehicels to pass through but not infantry. Once they are both down the shields are dissabled?

Thoughts?

[Figment]

Arn't there too many randomly spread gens for defenders to keep an eye on already? :/

Half the time defending such a base you're running back and forth to courtyard gens on the other end of a base.

[VaderShake]

Arn't there too many randomly spread gens for defenders to keep an eye on already? :/

Half the time defending such a base you're running back and forth to courtyard gens on the other end of a base.

Might be a little different defending experience if the opposition cannot pass through the gate shield at all when they start attacking.

[Figment]

Might be a little different defending experience if the opposition cannot pass through the gate shield at all when they start attacking.

Not really, they're usualy set off by LA that just jumped over the nearest wall to it and in some occassions infils. It is far rarer to have HA and medics or even engineers set them off.

[wasdie]

Yeah I have no idea why they don't lock out infantry from going through the gates. It's kind of insane right now.

LA would have much more of a purpose, it would lower the amount of HA on the battlefield, and it would give much more intensive for coordinated galaxy drop ships.