Spawnroom shields suck and ruin fights.

[Rothnang]

I hate spawn room shields. Absolutely hate them.

They are easily one of the shittiest mechanics in the whole game, and instead of seeing less of them we see them crop up more and more whenever something is supposedly made "harder to spawn camp".

Well, here is a thought for SOE, maybe one of the giant reasons why people get "spawncamped" all the time is because you've made it so damn convenient to sit in a spawn room that half the defenders don't even try to leave.

Seriously, I am sick of those things. They should not allow you to shoot through and they should not allow you to go back into the spawn room once you're outside. Put some terminals on the outside, and scatter more terminals around the base, but please get rid of all these horribly fights where some fuckskull is sitting behind a shield daring people to walk in front of it. It not only isn't any fun for the attackers to deal with that crap, it also hamstrings any effective defense when half your faction refuses to leave the spawn room because they are too convenient for farming.

[Sturmhardt]

The matter is more complicated, you can't just remove the shields and leave the rest of the chaotic base design as it is... I think we have talked about this quite a lot and I'm too tired to get into the details again, but just removing the shields is not going to improve the gameplay. They are merely a workaround for the chaotic, nonlinear base design.

.sent via phone.

[zulu]

Agree with Sturmhardt -- bases are too crazy to remove them.

But, yeah, it's really annoying to deal with this on either side.

I don't think they're the cause of the problem so much as symptomatic of larger issues with the way base capture works. Essentially, battles are effectively over once the defender is pushed back into their spawn room. This is partly because most battles are between large numbers of attackers and only a few defenders, but it's also because bases aren't really defensible.

Regardless, the battle is over at the point when the defender can't leave his spawn room without getting shot immediately (at that point in the fight I usually decide to leave and find another battle or wherever they're going to attack next -- I don't really get why so many people stay behind at the base and then complain about getting camped and killed by tanks shelling the spawn room as if that were some sort of problem), but the battle isn't officially over until the hex flips.

Ideally, there would be some way for the game to say, "Okay -- the battle is done, let's speed this up." But drastically decreasing the amount of time required to flip the hex would only encourage ghost-capping, which I don't think anyone really wants.

What might work would be a set of rules like the following:
1) If there are 24 people (two full squads) or fewer in a hex, then the hex caps at the normal rate.
2) If there are more than 24 people in the hex, then it will increase or decrease cap time depending on the balance of forces. So if there are 90% TR in an NC hex, then it will cap way faster than if there's 50% TR.

In a way we have that now with the capture points, but frankly that doesn't help alleviate the problem much. It just means that between 2 and 6 people are standing around a point and waiting for the hex to flip.

I'd just like to see this awful endgame of every battle end. It's just unfortunate that almost every battle ends with a boring camp session with everyone padding their stats.

[Rothnang]

I'm not saying they should be removed, just that their properties should be changed from letting people move in and out of spawn rooms willy nilly and shoot through them from the inside to letting people out but not back in. At the very least change them so you can't shoot through them.

It's just ridiculous right now how the second you get a base fight going people will start building their strategy on those shields where ever they can be found. Towers are just horrible currently, with shields on nearly every level of them.

This stuff has done nothing to discourage spawn camping, all its done is discourage actually leaving the spawn room when there are a lot of enemies outside. If the battle is genuinely over and the enemy has the base locked down with no chance to get it back, ok, that sucks, but then you should just leave, not sit in the spawnroom trying to farm kills until the base flips.


As far as base flipping is concerned, the giant problem with the current system is simply that you can move into a base way too quickly for any decent defense to be organized. If you do get a fight where both sides have equal numbers in a base it works pretty well actually. I can't think of a better system that doesn't involve either adding significant new stuff to bases, like an underground portion, or forces the attacker to wait a while before attacking to give the defender a chance to get ready. Maybe the new microhex system might help in letting people actually organize a defense of some place.

[Canaris]

Bases aren't designed well enough not to have spawn shields, it would take a complete overhaul of almost all outposts and bases with the defenders in mind in order to remove the shielded spawn design.

I can't see that happening any time soon (tbh ever) but I agree with you Roth I hate most of the outpost layouts they are counter intuitive to defense.

[psijaka]

This is a very minor issue in the scheme of things.

Once the enemy is "confined to the nest" the battle is pretty much over; the base is lost to them. I'm no great fan of the spawn camping scenarios that we get, but if you are attacking, just stay out of line of sight of the shields, and nail them when they get bored and venture out from the spawn. Silly to go in close and die; feeding XP to the defenders hiding in the spawn.

[BlaxicanX]

I absolutely agree with the notion that shields should have one-way traffic, meaning, once you walk out of it you can't walk back in.

To prevent people from poking just their guns out and shooting, the shield should act a bit like a man-cannon. If you touch it in any way, whether it be with your body or your gun, it should eject you from the room. Not jarringly, but perhaps just at normal walking speed.

Because yes, it is incredibly annoying to be an attacker and having to wander around the line-of-sight of a spawnroom because you know there's some jackass heavy assault poking his gun through the shield and shooting at people who are walking by.

[Corvo]

Because yes, it is incredibly annoying to be an attacker and having to wander around the line-of-sight of a spawnroom because you know there's some jackass heavy assault poking his gun through the shield and shooting at people who are walking by.

How does that make him a jackass? He's using a valid game mechanic to his benefit. It's a tactic as viable as any other. I wouldn't blame people for utilizing what they have as long as it's not a recognized bug. If players are oblivious enough to walk right in front of an enemy spawn room not paying attention to their surroundings they should be punished.

Back to the topic now. I think they do need to change the shields so you wouldn't be able to shoot through them. Right now it's so easy to get a ton of kills through these it feels like cheating. However, forcing people out of the spawn room is just ...excessive. I remember how damn annoying it was when towers didn't have a gravity lift down from the top floor so that you couldn't go back to the terminal to switch classes or resupply and were pretty much stuck with the option to either use a heavily shelled exterior of the tower to jump down or jump through a teleporter that spat you on the ground floor and pray that you can shoot at least one guy before being mowed down.

Absolutely no mechanic in the game should force you to do anything. One-way shields on top of the outposts are annoying as hell too! What's wrong with letting people back in the same way they jumped out?

[Ruffdog]

edit never mind

[Sturmhardt]

If you can't shoot through them anymore from the inside the attackers will just camp the spawn. Period. You couldn't do anything against 3 HE tanks camping your spawn. So no, that is not going to help.

How about you guys just stay away from the spawn rooms and focus on the objectives? Then you don't have a problem with people defending their spawn...

.sent via phone.

[Ghoest9]

I dont mind them i even farm from behind them on occasion.

If they were removed and replaced with something better that would be ok too. But as is its not real problem.

[bpostal]

The matter is more complicated, you can't just remove the shields and leave the rest of the chaotic base design as it is... I think we have talked about this quite a lot and I'm too tired to get into the details again, but just removing the shields is not going to improve the gameplay. They are merely a workaround for the chaotic, nonlinear base design.

.sent via phone.

Yep...Base design has gotten better but it's still got miles to go.

[Falcon_br]

Every bio lab got snipers on the spawn room getting lots of free kills, because you can see a lot of the base from the spawn point, it is even worst because they got 2 door that can target players on the SCU!

[SGOniell]

If you can't shoot through them anymore from the inside the attackers will just camp the spawn. Period. You couldn't do anything against 3 HE tanks camping your spawn. So no, that is not going to help.

How about you guys just stay away from the spawn rooms and focus on the objectives? Then you don't have a problem with people defending their spawn...

.sent via phone.

Agreed. You could introduce fire ports/murder holes (as they used to be known), but the shields need to stay with current base design.

Also, one way traffic is terrible, if you're pushed back and running low of ammo, then there's no way to rearm. Especially because all of the attackers tend to destroy those terminals you'd want to place on the outside...

[ChipMHazard]

Also, one way traffic is terrible, if you're pushed back and running low of ammo, then there's no way to rearm. Especially because all of the attackers tend to destroy those terminals you'd want to place on the outside...

Good point. That would severely hamper defenders.

[Twido]

If we can fire camera guided missiles through the spawn room shield then I can see this becomming a big issue very quickly.
However, I agree with the others in that bases would need a better design to make the change workable.

[Rivenshield]

Once the enemy is "confined to the nest" the battle is pretty much over; the base is lost to them.

1) Put the spawn-outhouses back indoors near what the defenders are trying to bloody defend, a la the Biolabs. Or put a small spawn indoors and leave the outhouses where they are. Why not? What's wrong with multiple spawns to protect multiple objectives?

2) Introduce shield generators near each spawn that can be taken down to allow the attackers access to the spawn room. It should be in a small alcove, perhaps, or behind some sort of barrier. It shouldn't be easy to get to.

3) Put elevator beams in any spawn that drops you through the floor, so attackers can get in after the gen is deactivated. This will also allow defenders to can get back to a console and resupply/change loadouts.

4) Make spawn tubes destructible. You wanna enhance 'dynamic gameplay'? Give back the attackers the fierce satisfaction of gunning the bastards in their tubes!

[Neutral Calypso]

Spawn should be -inside- the main base structure. If the defenders think they need a sunderer inside the main base structure to improve their position, then something is inherently wrong.

[typhaon]

I don't see a problem. The spawn rooms are so much better now than they have been at any time, previously.

Defenders do tend to play a bit cautious, sometimes just camping behind the shields - rather than surging out to fight... but I think that has more to do with the state of the metagame (again... base capture/defense is pretty pointless - nobody cares, you'll just recapture the base -- and get your capture XP! -- in about 10 minutes, anyway).

If it's just making you sad because you're getting shot by people behind the shields, learn to camp more better.

[Hamma]

I hate how they can shoot out. But if you turned that off then what? They would get farmed the second they exit the shield.

There's no easy solution for this, does it suck? Yes. But it's a game there is no fear of death they have limited options to work with.

Rather than complaining about it - does anyone have any solid ideas as to what could work better?

[MaxDamage]

They keep fights going. Without them, less people will bother trying to defend or recap.

[ThePackage]

I hate how they can shoot out. But if you turned that off then what? They would get farmed the second they exit the shield.

There's no easy solution for this, does it suck? Yes. But it's a game there is no fear of death they have limited options to work with.

Rather than complaining about it - does anyone have any solid ideas as to what could work better?

I made a post on reddit a few minutes ago about this very problem, and a possible solution. If there isn't a massive backlog of players inside the shield area there would be no reason to camp them at all.

In a smaller base, you would simply redeploy at another base. In a bio lab you would be forced out of the room because you cannot do anything inside it. No more shooting with impunity without any consequence. If you're at the point where you're being bombarded by HE in spawn, it's time to move on and contribute.

A good example was today at Vanu Archives. Enemy squads were detected and I redeployed there. I saw point A beginning to flip with 8 people inside our spawn room firing rockets out at tanks hundreds of metres away. I rushed towards A solo, and took the point before a few more TR came in and cleared me out. During this time not a single teammate thought it was a good idea to leave the comfort of their spawn room. I know making them unable to shoot out isn't the end all and be all of a solution. However, it's a much better mechanic than we currently have. I'd much rather have my team lose because they tried, rather than losing because they didn't want to leave a safe zone.

This needs to change sooner rather than later.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/comments/1ab4wr/one_way_shields_promote_lazy_and_ineffective_play/

[ThePackage]

They keep fights going. Without them, less people will bother trying to defend or recap.

Unfortunately, this is the exact opposite of what actually happens. They promote camping inside them, and not attacking or defending.

They're a bad mechanic that needs to be removed.

[camycamera]

being able to shoot through shields while they are in the spawn room is silly though. and it pisses me off to see someone shoot me through shields that i can't shoot back at him. instead of them running out trying to do something, they try to "defend" the spawn.

[psijaka]

being able to shoot through shields while they are in the spawn room is silly though. and it pisses me off to see someone shoot me through shields that i can't shoot back at him. instead of them running out trying to do something, they try to "defend" the spawn.

But if that is all they are doing, then they have lost the base.

[AThreatToYou]

"Destroy the spawn tubes!"

-A PlanetSide 1 squad leader ordering what you're supposed to do to take a tech plant, or really any base.

Can you do that in PS2? No. Fix it.

[Qwan]

I have a suggestion.... dont walk infront of the spawn room. Stay behind cover and let the morons come out. But on the real to be honest guys, Ive noticed that alot of spawn camping has slowed down at the bases with underground tunneling, also as some of the smaller outpost as well. Dont get me wrong its still happens but not as much as it did in the past.