Your biggest VR-shocks and revalations

[Figment]

Since I never go through the trouble of trialing a lot of weapons, I've mostly found so far that:


- SMGs are FAR more accurate when hipfiring than expected and at ranges I would not have expected a SMG to hit the broadside of a barn, let alone using hipfire to fire at units at long range. (Compared to the standard LA weapon for instance, its killing potential feels epic and damage drop-off not noteworthy enough to warrant calling it a CQC weapon).

- Shotguns with slugs need to be recategorised as sniper rifles. Could one, two and three shot people depending on own aim at ranges where I'm having trouble with sniper rifles at times. Why don't these things have damage drop-off or such high spread they're absolutely useless beyond 20-30m and thus only good for CQC?

- Double Falcon seems decent, but is at least a type of AV where you can't easily hit infantry with - particularly useless at short range: GOOD.

- The Wraith is lol-giggles-facepalm: red light on the rear is clearly visible when cloaked and lights up the entire cloak (especially in the dark).

- You can switch seats on the Wraith and repair yourself mid-drive or have your fellow player do it.

- You can toss C4 and mines while in the rumble seat.

- C4 placed on top of a Wraith cloaks even if tossed on later.

- You can sit uncloaked on a cloaked Wraith.

- Such long splash ranges on most weapons, but splash hardly ever (if at all) hurts vehicles. So what's the point of having splash on AV weapons? To make them into makeshift AI weapons?

[Ruzy]

After lots of testing, I really really wish that I had gone VS instead of TR way back when. I like all of their guns more, and I like all of their vehicles more. Still not sure I could live with the color scheme though...

[camycamera]

i tried out the TAS-16 Blackjack pump action shotgun yesterday,by god that thing is a god. compared to the semi auto shotguns that killed the dummies in 2 hits to the chest (obviously one hit to the head) at reasonably close range, the TAS-16 Blackjack killed them in ONE hit. wow.

also, the flash suppressor is really useful for the T9 CARV. constantly before i got the flash suppressor, and especially at night, i couldn't see where the fuck i was shooting sometimes because of the muzzle flash. now i can aim better at night and gives me more reasons to play as HA at night :D

oh, and you can't try out the kinetic armour on the MAX? i looked for it, couldn't find it? am i missing something?

[Assist]

Since I never go through the trouble of trialing a lot of weapons, I've mostly found so far that:


- SMGs are FAR more accurate when hipfiring than expected and at ranges I would not have expected a SMG to hit the broadside of a barn, let alone using hipfire to fire at units at long range. (Compared to the standard LA weapon for instance, its killing potential feels epic and damage drop-off not noteworthy enough to warrant calling it a CQC weapon).

- Shotguns with slugs need to be recategorised as sniper rifles. Could one, two and three shot people depending on own aim at ranges where I'm having trouble with sniper rifles at times. Why don't these things have damage drop-off or such high spread they're absolutely useless beyond 20-30m and thus only good for CQC?


All guns are too accurate when hipfiring IMO, however certain guns are way too accurate hip firing. For the VS - Serpent, Solstice, both SMG's, Orion. All the fast fire rate guns need to have much higher hipfire recoil IMO.


Shotguns with slugs are awful in CQC. That's the trade off.

[maradine]

After lots of testing, I really really wish that I had gone VS instead of TR way back when. I like all of their guns more, and I like all of their vehicles more. Still not sure I could live with the color scheme though...

It's something we have to work through, one day at a time. <credits>

[mrmrmrj]

Someone test the NC MAX versus other MAXes in the VR and let's shit down all the whining right now. I don't have the patience to do it myself.

[Saintlycow]

The flash track is broke. The gorge jump next to the two bridges is impossible to jump.
PLZ fix

[Stardouser]

I was surprised to learn just how extremely powerful a Prowler is with anchored reload timer reduction.

And just how brutal TR HA guns are.

[Vashyo]

The shotguns are immensely powerful and teh SMGs are immensely accurate without ADS

I need to work on buying one of each

[Climhazzard]

The flash track is broke. The gorge jump next to the two bridges is impossible to jump.
PLZ fix

They mentioned that in the update notes. There are supposed to be ramps installed along the track, but they didn't make it in before the update.

[Chewy]

Someone test the NC MAX versus other MAXes in the VR and let's shit down all the whining right now. I don't have the patience to do it myself.

You need to give me time first. Couldn't do it yesterday or today as of a family emergency involving a very ill grandmother and getting hit with the massive FPS drops after GU4. I "should" have something as of monday if my weekend isn't ruined at given the time to record, edit, upload, and redo any/everything over again a few times thanks to errors or bad quality.

Doing testing isn't a Lets Play done in a single sitting. It can take HOURS just for recording let alone all of the editing needed on top of Youtube slow as hell (for me) uploads and processing. This is just for one person as well, think of needing a squads worth of people all to have the same schedule times like before the VR room.

[p0intman]

concussion and smoke grenades are functional. you cant teamkill, but you can be very creative with some things.

[Saintlycow]

can you kill someone with the smoke launcher?

[Koadster]

can you kill someone with the smoke launcher?

Yes, a direct hit will take all shields and about 25% HP. So two direct hits will kill someone.
I was surprised at the underbarrel shotgun. Ohk just like pump actions. But still not worth giving up smoke or nades which are both more useful.

The Facebook pistols are so awful to look at. Horrid gold texture.

The silencer on sniperrifles suck. With the sr7. You loose 1.5 mil dots at around 100ish yards.

[Baneblade]

I was annoyed to see the Warden showing as having an underslung grenade launcher in VR.

[Falcon_br]

When I tested the sabs-13 (or name near that), I couldn't find the compensator, I was really scared they have removed it from the game!
I was also surprise to see that the under barrel shotgun can be one shot kill weapon! Need to confirm that with a website because the VR training rooms are too crowded and I could be wrong.
Also, it looks like the semi auto shotguns are better them the full auto ones, but both are still a joke when you use a pump action, because this game got the fastest pump action firing shotgun ever! It is almost the same rate of fire of the semi auto if you place in account the time to compensate the recoil.
Also slugs wasn't working for the pump action shotguns with me, and the normal ones it were the same number of shots to kill with slugs and buckshot, so I don't see a real advantage to use buck is you are good at aiming at close and moving targets.

[Ghoest9]

- SMGs are FAR more accurate when hipfiring than expected and at ranges I would not have expected a SMG to hit the broadside of a barn, let alone using hipfire to fire at units at long range. (Compared to the standard LA weapon for instance, its killing potential feels epic and damage drop-off not noteworthy enough to warrant calling it a CQC weapon).

After 20 meters the damage drop of is severe.
I dont understand how you would not notice this in VR testing.

They are wonderful inside 20 meters but at 40 or 50 meters they are pathetic compared to most carbines.



- Shotguns with slugs need to be recategorised as sniper rifles. Could one, two and three shot people depending on own aim at ranges where I'm having trouble with sniper rifles at times. Why don't these things have damage drop-off or such high spread they're absolutely useless beyond 20-30m and thus only good for CQC?



Have you ever tried them in battle?
Where targets actually move? They travel super slow and are mostly only good for shooting peaple standing still like afks and those in the map screen beyond 50 or 60 yards(it is fun to snipe AFKs but its not a full time job.).

In the 20-60 meter range they are a good choice though.

But once again I have serious doubts about your testing ability if you feel they did better than the semi-auto sniper rifles at range.

[ringring]

Have you ever tried them in battle?
Where targets actually move? They travel super slow and are mostly only good for shooting peaple standing still like afks and those in the map screen beyond 50 or 60 yards(it is fun to snipe AFKs but its not a full time job.).

In the 20-60 meter range they are a good choice though.

.

This is the danger with the VR, it's not realistic in that your targets stand still ands you may get the wrong idea.

However ... I'm not complaining that it's there. Better in than out as they say..


** I quite liked the Rhino for the TR HA. The recoil seemed easier to handle than on the Carv

[Figment]

This is the danger with the VR, it's not realistic in that your targets stand still ands you may get the wrong idea.

Not at all. A standing still target at 100+ meters shouldn't be hit by a shotgun period. Let alone to the point where enough pellets hit to instagib.

It shouldn't even be an optional luck shot.

Beyond 20m, SMGs and shotguns should be pisspoor. From what I've seen, they are in fact, better than LMGs at most normal combat ranges. Because you're going to miss more shots with the other guns even if you point as accurately.

[CasualCat]

By definition a slug isn't going to have spread because it isn't shot/pellets.

Unless you mean COF?

Will do some shot pattern testing after work.

Some initial testing (don't have time to edit the video now) assuming the max range for the paper targets is 50m is that the largest magazine shotgun with extended magazine would score enough hits to kill if the magazine is emptied. That is of course a sample size of 1.

Are the paper target lanes 50m?

[MaxDamage]

After lots of testing, I really really wish that I had gone VS instead of TR way back when. I like all of their guns more, and I like all of their vehicles more. Still not sure I could live with the color scheme though...

As a heterosexual red-blooded male, I agree.

Don't listen to people telling you that it's people who are "really secure in their sexuality" that embrace pink and purple.

Those people just want to stick it in your pooper.

[ThatGoatGuy]

And just how brutal TR HA guns are.

Oh TR guns are powerful eh? Where's my 200 dmg completely verticle recoil Compensator AND Adv forward grip LMG? I'd like to see that in my arsenal.

[ThatGoatGuy]

As for the SMGs, their hip fire cone is really small, and they have relatively little to no bloom when holding down the trigger. Throw an adv laser on the larger mag one, and proceed to rape face.

[Twido]

After lots of testing, I really really wish that I had gone VS instead of TR way back when. I like all of their guns more, and I like all of their vehicles more. Still not sure I could live with the color scheme though...

Although I don't regret choosing TR, I also found that the VS seemed to match my play style better. Please don't misinterpret that as thinking they are OP though. Nearly all the guns are pretty damn good and I am getting better at handling the recoil.

[Mietz]

My revelation was that SMGs are ridiculously powerful compared to other guns.

The stability and lack of recoil is amazing, they become far more accurate than anything else and the ROF off-sets their lower damage output.

Also BA rifles for snipers are really good and fun to use, far more consistency than semi auto.

[Dragonskin]

Not at all. A standing still target at 100+ meters shouldn't be hit by a shotgun period. Let alone to the point where enough pellets hit to instagib.

It shouldn't even be an optional luck shot.

Beyond 20m, SMGs and shotguns should be pisspoor. From what I've seen, they are in fact, better than LMGs at most normal combat ranges. Because you're going to miss more shots with the other guns even if you point as accurately.

You're making this sound like you don't understand what a slug round is. It's basically a really big bullet... fired from a shotgun which has more gun powder than normal bullets.

Btw he is accurately hitting a target at 210m.

I know real life doesn't equal video games... but here is what a real slug is like in the real world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNTyCcip-ks

[Ghoest9]

Not at all. A standing still target at 100+ meters shouldn't be hit by a shotgun period. Let alone to the point where enough pellets hit to instagib.

It shouldn't even be an optional luck shot.

Beyond 20m, SMGs and shotguns should be pisspoor. From what I've seen, they are in fact, better than LMGs at most normal combat ranges. Because you're going to miss more shots with the other guns even if you point as accurately.

Do you even know that slugs are one of the worst weapon in the game under 20 yards?
By design they make shotguns work more or less like battle rifles. They have slower bullet travel than a battle rifle and do about modestly more damage.

With slugs shot guns are the opposite of what they are with pellets.

Really - try playing the game.

[Koadster]

After 20 meters the damage drop of is severe.
I dont understand how you would not notice this in VR testing.

They are wonderful inside 20 meters but at 40 or 50 meters they are pathetic compared to most carbines.

Try that again, the Hailstorm with adv laser was eating bots at 50+ meters.. I was shocked at how OP the hipfire was.

To falcon, the SABR13 is missing its Compensator. There are a number of guns missing attachments like the T1 Cycler missing all the reflex sights

[PurpleOtter]

The TR Uppercut shotgun with slugs hits like the fist of an angry god....The battle rifle, while really fun to shoot, is extremely underwhelming, makes a great "range toy". I think they may have stealth buffed the TR anti vehicle Pounder for the MAX.

[Ghoest9]

Try that again, the Hailstorm with adv laser was eating bots at 50+ meters.. I was shocked at how OP the hipfire was.

To falcon, the SABR13 is missing its Compensator. There are a number of guns missing attachments like the T1 Cycler missing all the reflex sights

Using the NC guns that was not my experience at 50 yards.

Its hard to do a controlled count though because the VR is so full of people.

[Rolfski]

My observations so far. Many of them confirm my expectations but some came as a surprise:

Can't help it but I generally don't like the feel of the NC weapon arsenal, doesn't fit my play style I guess.
From all the carbines in the game I like the default VS Solstice most, followed by the TR LC3 Jaguar. These weapons seem for me to hit the sweet-spot between dps, controllability, accuracy and versatility.
For a mid to long range TR LMG I have a hard time to choose between TMG-50 (damage/accuracy) and T32 Bull (controllability), T16 Rhino didn't cut it for me in that role.
The high speed frame on the Prowler is surprisingly good, you got to love the increased acceleration and hill climbing.
For a main Prowler canon the HE is absolutely horrible in an anti armor role. The differences between Heat and AT canon are surprisingly small though, which makes Heat my preferred Prowler canon for now.
Maxed out Anchored mode on the Prowler increases the fire rate drastically, increased reload speed on the canons not so much.
For a secondary Prowler gun, the Vulcan absolutely rules in general versatility and damage. G30 Walker beats G40 Ranger as a dedicated anti-air gun, The Kobalt (only 100 certs) is a good poor man's AA gun. The Marauder is completely useless. Halbert is ok against hard targets only. The default Basilisk just kills too slow to be really effective against anything.
I'm still on the fence between Dogfighting and Hover airframe for the Mossy.
Slugs are surprisingly effective long range, giving the LA class a better long range capability.
From all the shotguns I like the semi auto's the most.
SMG's are better then I expected. I might end up actually using them on other classes besides the Infiltrator.

[Bocheezu]

The T5 AMC isn't as bad as I thought it would be, but I still wouldn't buy it. I might consider buying the Jaguar (I really like the straight-up recoil) if they're not going to release a 167-damage carbine any time soon. All in all, though, I just hate the feel of TR carbines and can't hit shit with them. I haven't tried AC-X11 yet (I figure it's a Guass SAW clone, and I already love that) but I already know from my NC alt that I like the Mercenary way more than any TR carbine.

[EVILPIG]

SMG's are better then I expected. I might end up actually using them on other classes besides the Infiltrator.



SMG HA is pretty fun.

[Assist]

The Mosquito is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Scythe and Reaver.
Prowler done right should be Vulcan, Heat, and Speed Racer mode. Not sure why more don't run this, that tank is ridiculous.
HEAT does far too much damage to armor and/or AP doesn't do enough to armor.
Haven't gone through all the NC guns yet, but I just don't like the TR guns. Fire rate is nice and all, but for me the NC just seem superior. Being able to do damage at range is such a huge difference from playing VS.
The Beamer is so bad compared to the other Pistols and the Manticore is still worse than the TR/NC Pistols.

[JesNC]

- The Dogfighting Airframe on the Reaver fells soo much better than the Hover Airframe that I decided to dump 300 certs into a vehicle I don't use very much nowadays. I only miss the additional vertical thrust when doing nap-of-the-earth manouvers.

- The EM6 is extremely accurate on full auto, makes me wonder why I ditched it in favor of the GD-22s in December.

- The new Flash is interesting, but doesn't seem all that viable to me. Still waiting for buggies with rumble seats...

- Scattercannons /w Slug Ammo are bad, period. Even against immobile targets on the range they're extremely inaccurate.

- Testing Slug Ammo on various shotguns made me re-evaluate my Sweeper semi-auto shotgun - I'm now using it on my Engineer at close to medium range with Slugs, Laser Sight an 1x/2x Reflex.

- The Jackhammer on the other hand is a nice troll weapon, but is outclassed by the other HA primaries (LMG, common shotguns)

- The SMG remains a niche weapon, low bullet velocity/large damage drop make them subpar to all other automatic guns at ranges past 20m.

- IMPORTANT: AV MANA turret damage to tanks is based on missile vector on impact, NOT on the turret position in relation to the tank!

Still need to test:

- T-5 AMC/Razor carbines and Suppressors, seems like they might be a perfect match due to the high projectile speed.

- Rival vs Racer on the Vanny; Rival might be a good choice now that the tank doesn't suffer from low/non-existant torque anymore.

[EVILPIG]

- The EM6 is extremely accurate on full auto, makes me wonder why I ditched it in favor of the GD-22s in December.

You don't like the Anchor?

[CasualCat]

- IMPORTANT: AV MANA turret damage to tanks is based on missile vector on impact, NOT on the turret position in relation to the tank!


That's huge.

[JesNC]

You don't like the Anchor?

Don't play HA that much - got the EM6 with Alpha Squad and the GD-22s with certs back when the Anchor wasn't released yet. Haven't tested the Anchor at all tbh.

[EVILPIG]

That's huge.

Don't play HA that much - got the EM6 with Alpha Squad and the GD-22s with certs back when the Anchor wasn't released yet. Haven't tested the Anchor at all tbh.

Check it out. I was die hard EM6 lover, Anchor looks better on paper, so been using since it came out. Been so long, not sure which is better.

[Ertwin]

The skyguard shreds armoured targets. It's too inaccurate to reliably kill infantry though.

The sirius smg can kill a MAX without reloading provided it gets all headshots (so not likely in combat)

[JesNC]

The skyguard shreds armoured targets. It's too inaccurate to reliably kill infantry though.


You just have to get really close to them ;)

Took on 3 HA at once with my skyguard yesterday and came out on top ^^

@EVILPIG: Gonna give the Anchor a go then, thanks for the tip :D

[Twasta]

I immediately tried out all of the TR CM weapons and fell in love with the SABR-13, bought it as a result. It has great close to mid range accuracy on burst, good at long range on single. Got a 3.4x red dot, laser pointer and high velocity ammunition for the thing and it outperforms the Cycler TRV (my previous favourite CM primary) in any and all situations.
Also bought the second HEG after testing it out and finding that running around with what is basically a mobile mortar plattform is extremely neat.

[ringring]

The Mosquito is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Scythe and Reaver.
Prowler done right should be Vulcan, Heat, and Speed Racer mode. Not sure why more don't run this, that tank is ridiculous.
HEAT does far too much damage to armor and/or AP doesn't do enough to armor.
Haven't gone through all the NC guns yet, but I just don't like the TR guns. Fire rate is nice and all, but for me the NC just seem superior. Being able to do damage at range is such a huge difference from playing VS.
The Beamer is so bad compared to the other Pistols and the Manticore is still worse than the TR/NC Pistols.
In the previous patch the vulcan was nerfed, still powerful but with a reduced range.

I've heard that it's been buffed and if true it may well be worth revisiting it.

I normally run HEAT + Walker, hoping for all round capability.

[Mietz]

New VR shock and revelation.

VR is more fun than the actual game itself.

Seriously though, game is still the same terrible mess as before, just with a few more bandaids.

[Whiteagle]

I think they may have stealth buffed the TR anti vehicle Pounder for the MAX.
Eh, if they gave it a Projectile Velocity increase or reduced the Gravity on it, then yeah...

...Still isn't worth buying in my opinion though...

The Mosquito is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Scythe and Reaver.
Really?
I mean it might be a middle ground between the Scythe's air superiority maneuverability and the Reavers Ground Attack armoring, but you really think it's the best?

Prowler done right should be Vulcan, Heat, and Speed Racer mode. Not sure why more don't run this, that tank is ridiculous.
Because our factional special ability is to anchor into place...
If you are going to waste certs on the Racer Chassis and Station Cash on a gun, you might as well pull a Python HEAT Lightning.

HEAT does far too much damage to armor and/or AP doesn't do enough to armor.
And you wonder why we complain we don't have an Anti-tank MBT?

Haven't gone through all the NC guns yet, but I just don't like the TR guns. Fire rate is nice and all, but for me the NC just seem superior. Being able to do damage at range is such a huge difference from playing VS.
Indeed, I can never understand how the NC could whine so much on how our weapons are superior, unless they are all spray and pray noobs...

The Beamer is so bad compared to the other Pistols and the Manticore is still worse than the TR/NC Pistols.
Eh, what can I say, TR Pistols kick ass!
Why do you think I want to duel wield them on a Light Assault?

[Ghoest9]

Really?
I mean it might be a middle ground between the Scythe's air superiority maneuverability and the Reavers Ground Attack armoring, but you really think it's the best?



I wont comment about the Scyth - but if you are thinking the ground attack armor compensates for speed and agility then its hard to believe you are anything but a troll.






Indeed, I can never understand how the NC could whine so much on how our weapons are superior, unless they are all spray and pray noobs...




And ~99% of all NC stopped complaining when when the flinch code was normalized.
Go away troll.

[BIGGByran]

My observations so far. Many of them confirm my expectations but some came as a surprise:

Can't help it but I generally don't like the feel of the NC weapon arsenal, doesn't fit my play style I guess.


Can you explain why? Just curious. If you can go deeper than "doesn't fit my play style."


Haven't gone through all the NC guns yet, but I just don't like the TR guns. Fire rate is nice and all, but for me the NC just seem superior. Being able to do damage at range is such a huge difference from playing VS.


Well in VR, they don't shot back or move. Plus when the flinch Mechanic was in place, it made any kind of range shot near impossible, because not only does flinch make your aim jump up, but then you have to add in the large recoil of the NC guns. Now without the flinch, it is a bit easier to shot at range, but we still have to compensate for the recoil on any high recoil gun, but compensator helps!

[Chewy]

I learned just how deadly a dual Mercy MAX is and how fun those chain guns are. 70m away and still killing with full auto before half my mags are gone.

I also took the time to make 3 videos of a MAX weapon for each faction and how they do at range. NC Hacksaw, TR Mercy, and VS Cosmos. The Hacksaw SUCKED next to the rest in everything but TTK at 0m-10m (slugs included). Hell, I couldn't get past 20m with Hacksaws before needing a reload yet both the Mercy and Cosmos when to 70+m without reloads.

Telling indeed the VR room has been.

[Rolfski]

Can you explain why? Just curious. If you can go deeper than "doesn't fit my play style."

Long story short:
NC weapons are generally more unforgiven, you have to make your bullets count more. Considering the chaotic character of this game, I generally prefer weapons with a bigger margin of error.

[Rothnang]

- Such long splash ranges on most weapons, but splash hardly ever (if at all) hurts vehicles. So what's the point of having splash on AV weapons? To make them into makeshift AI weapons?

I really hate what they did to the Dalton. The Dalton used to be dead on balls accurate with a fast shell, great damage against vehicles and a 10 meter splash that could one shot infantry.

That was a bit overpowered, so they nerfed it to have a slow projectile that drops like a lead balloon and still has a 9 meter splash radius.

Absolutely awful change to the weapon. It now blows chunks for sniping tanks and Sunderers, which is the one thing it did better than the Zephyr in the first place, and is hardly any less overpowered against infantry. It's just a shadow of its former self now. Making the weapon less accurate but keeping its huge splash has made it MORE of an anti-infantry weapon and less of a good anti-vehicle weapon, since you need direct hits to do good damage to vehicles. That change just totally misses the mark of what it should be and creating clear and useful roles for weapons.



In VR Training area news, you can fit the Zephyr PX on the Liberator there, which looks like a smaller, stub nosed Zephyr. It works exactly like the regular Zephyr though, so while the model is in and usable, there doesn't seem to be any unique functionality to it just yet.

[ringring]

We should have predicted that everyone would find the other's empires overpowered.

[Corvo]

- Comets on the VS MAX are actually kind of good! I think I would roll with an AV setup a lot more often if Pounders were more like Comets.
- I don't like any of NC carbines, especially the much praised GD-7F. The sight just wobbles around the target, can't hit shit with this gun. The Mercenary is surprisingly good though and just feels superior to the TR default.
- Gauss SAW is a beast! A gun that gets an advanced foregrip AND a compensator? Why don't we TR get anything like that in our arsenal? Plus it's an NC default weapon? WTF! I'm jealous, I wish I could put an adv. foregrip on a TMG-50. Or a compensator on a T16.
- On the brighter side, I didn't like the VS guns at all, not a single one of them.

[Figment]

@Dragonskin also note how most of those miss. If you stand at the VR's vehicle side and aim for a little spawnee at a tree on the horizon, each well-aimed shot on target turns into a oneshot headshot with no drop that I noticed and otherwise two-three lazily aimed shots work too. Way too easy tbh and makes one wonder why one would use a rifle that requires a lot more shots and has far more irregular aim at that range, even if it's supposed to be the optimal range for that rifle over other rifles.

The clip and reload time alone isn't good enough compensation, since alpha damage and rate of fire often determines the outcome of fights. And there's little that can beat this.

Accuracy should be much lower at those ranges for shotguns to make them not the best choice in any situation.

[Ghoest9]

- Gauss SAW is a beast! A gun that gets an advanced foregrip AND a compensator? Why don't we TR get anything like that in our arsenal? Plus it's an NC default weapon? WTF! I'm jealous, I wish I could put an adv. foregrip on a TMG-50. Or a compensator on a T16.



You havent realized that guns are balanced with he idea that you will have attachments on them?


Guns with no compensator have better recoil than similar guns with compensator for instance.

Its not that the attachments make all guns clones - but you can only compare balance when they are upgraded.

[JesNC]

Really?
I mean it might be a middle ground between the Scythe's air superiority maneuverability and the Reavers Ground Attack armoring, but you really think it's the best?


What armoring? The Reaver doesn't have any more armor/hp than the other 2 ESF.

I had hoped that VR training would debunk some of those myths...

[Koadster]

The high speed frame on the Prowler is surprisingly good, you got to love the increased acceleration and hill climbing.
For a main Prowler canon the HE is absolutely horrible in an anti armor role. The differences between Heat and AT canon are surprisingly small though, which makes Heat my preferred Prowler canon for now.
The Marauder is completely useless.


For land vehicles speeder frame is the only thing really worth getting.

I've been saying since release HEAT on mbt/lightning is the only way to go. HE was only a lil bit better at killing inf with a loss at AT role. AP was at a lose versus inf with no splash for minor buff to killing tanks.

Marauder is great.. its a high skill cap weapon though. Hit em hard and fast. Competent gunner with Marauder and max speed frame is deadly. I'll take it over HE for killing inf... but let's go with ur assumption so it doesn't become a FOTM weapon meaning no nerfs. So I can keep my great Marauder how it is.

[Rolfski]

Marauder is great.. its a high skill cap weapon though. Hit em hard and fast. Competent gunner with Marauder and max speed frame is deadly. I'll take it over HE for killing inf... but let's go with ur assumption so it doesn't become a FOTM weapon meaning no nerfs. So I can keep my great Marauder how it is.
That's exactly the problem of the Marauder; it kills infantry only and you need skill to have the arced shots land on target. Not exactly easy when you're on the move.

For the secondary on my Prowler I rather prefer a gun that's somewhat versatile (preferably against air and infantry ) and the Marauder just can't fulfill that role.

[Kail]

- Comets on the VS MAX are actually kind of good! I think I would roll with an AV setup a lot more often if Pounders were more like Comets.


In my experience Comets are pretty good on stationary armor, quite good under 40m against infantry / MAXes, and frustrating any other time due to its super slow projectile speed.


- Gauss SAW is a beast! A gun that gets an advanced foregrip AND a compensator? Why don't we TR get anything like that in our arsenal? Plus it's an NC default weapon? WTF! I'm jealous, I wish I could put an adv. foregrip on a TMG-50. Or a compensator on a T16.


I recently made an NC guy just to give another faction a go (I've been playing VS since the start). I was honestly shocked at how much fun the SAW is; after trying to hipfire once or twice (and missing the broadside of a barn) I realized you really need to ADS with it, but man, I love that gun.

I have a lot of SC sunk in to VS, and I still do like energy weapons from a sci-fi perspective, but damned if I'm a little torn on switching allegiances heh.

Edit:

Some things I've found:

Attachments on the Lasher seemed to make accuracy worse
Pump shotguns are ridonkulous
Slug ammunition can be ridonkulous
In the VR I seemed to have a way easier time SMGs that I remember in practice, even using targets near the end of the range. This makes me really want a section that has randomly moving targets, cause even though part of my brain says "yeah slug ammo against moving targets at range is way harder", the other part is saying "holy damn I OHK a guy with a shotgun at 50m"
I find flying a Reaver way easier than a Scythe for some reason. Might have to try TR sometime.

[Rothnang]

For the secondary on my Prowler I rather prefer a gun that's somewhat versatile (preferably against air and infantry ) and the Marauder just can't fulfill that role.

Basilisk. It isn't a bad gun just because it's default. In fact its one of the strongest guns in the game.

[Neutral Calypso]

Basilisk and vulcan have same TTK a sunderer...
Unless you get faster reload speed for the vulcan, then it is a couple seconds faster.

[Rothnang]

Yea, the Vulcan is pretty much the best secondary for tanks right now. People tend to really underestimate the Basilisk though. It may look lame, but it has some serious power.

[Rasui]

Things I learned as a VS player trying out other factions tech.


The Vulcan is insane. I realize you have to get close, but it shreds EVERYTHING.

The Halberd does the same damage as the Saron and only has mild drop.

The Blitz GD-10 is whisper quiet with a suppressor. I really wish my Sirius made that little noise.

The vertical thrust on the Reaver feels crazy coming from a Scythe pilot. It just gives you so much maneuverability close to the ground.

[Corvo]

You havent realized that guns are balanced with he idea that you will have attachments on them?


I see what you're saying here. Well, it's just how it feels after running around with Gauss SAW for maybe half an hour. It's a matter of opinion really.

[Neutral Calypso]

Here were my conclusions, you may draw your own.

These based on TTK a sunderer, TTK a reaver, and TTK a max.


Flash weapons:
Anti-Vehicle: Basilisk
Anti-Air: Basilisk
Anti-Infantry: Fury

Essentially the basilisk is the only one that deals decent damage against vehicles of any sort. The Fury will axe a max faster than any other flash weapon AND one-shots infantry. The new shotgun also one-shots infantry, but takes more shots to axe a max.

Sunderer Weapons:
Anti-Vehicle: Basilisk
Anti-Air: Walker
Anti-Infantry: Fury

Basilisk is really the only way to go if you want to AV in a sundy. The walker vs. ranger debate tends to favor the walker, but I can appreciate how some people just can't hit with the walker, and hence prefer the ranger even though it takes significantly longer TTK.

I was surprised that the Fury won out over the bulldog. Rate of fire on the bulldog is just not quite fast enough.


Lightning:
HEAT > Viper. But most people knew that already.

As for what is better vs. vehicles and infantry and air, it is pretty obvious with the Lightning. For those who do not see the obvious...
Anti-Vehicle: AP
Anti-Air: Skyguard
Anti-Infantry: HE

Also worth noting, I was surprised to find the skyguard dealing damage at the same rate as the walker. It does seem more accurate though.

Prowler/MBT:
The main gun is obvious. There is no obvious anti-air weapon for the main gun, so I just say AP.
The secondaries are much more interesting...

Anti-Vehicle: Halberd
Anti-Air: Walker
Anti-Infantry: Marauder

That is definitely the way I see it. The halberd wipes out vehicles 5 seconds faster than the vulcan or the basilisk. Improve it with faster reload speed and things will be golden.
Walker for same reasons I listed for the sunderer
Marauder is like a fury with a faster rate of fire.


When I tried to test the air vehicle weapons, I got trolled by some moron flying a mossie around in the VR room, so I am less certain of these results...

The mosquito itself is fairly obvious.
Anti-Vehicle: Needler(?) ((needs more testing against the rotary))
Anti-Air: Rotary
Anti-Infantry: Banshee

And there's really only two options for the secondary.

Anti-Vehicle: Rocket pods
Anti-Air: A2A (?) ((Needs more testing))
Anti-Infantry: Rocket pods


Next up the liberator...
Primaries
Anti-Vehicle: Tank Buster
Anti-Air: Tank Buster (?)
Anti-Infantry: default

Secondary:
Anti-Vehicle: Dalton (?)
Anti-Air: default (?)
Anti-Infantry: Zephir (?)

Tertiary:
Anti-Vehicle: Drake
Anti-Air: Walker
Anti-Infantry: Bulldog


Galaxy:
Anti-Vehicle: Drake
Anti-Air: Walker
Anti-Infantry: Bulldog


Those are my findings and estimations.

[Falcon_br]

I own the Zephyr PX and the ordinary one.
I tried both in VR, looked the same.
Gone to field testing, the Zephyr PX looks like they forgot to nerf it in the GU 04! It is killing much more them normal one!

Also, I am my outfit weapons specialist, so I unlocked and fully certified (only the certs in the weapons strength) the most promising weapons from TR and that's my verdict:

Carbines:
T5 AMC really gives you more range, but you will still die changing shots with a HA and a Medic, because they got more dps and the same precision at range. It was a great waste of certs in this weapon I got from alpha squad. It also sucks at close quarters.
Lynx is better them any smg of the TR, everyone says that in the YouTube, just looks at the stats, lynx got better dps and with adv laser sights you can hip fire it even in medium ranges! I used to use thermal with it, but now you can't see infiltrators with it so I suggest not using thermal with any weapon. I also use soft point and suppressor and I still manage to get lots of kills in medium range.
Some people at my outfit doesn't likes the lynx, they just got the pump action shotgun and one hit kill everyone in close range, at longe range they deploy turrets.
Also, the one with the GL some people consider it to have better recoil than the lynx, but the higher dps and adv laser sight from the lynx, still makes it better for me.
I can be wrong, but I really think that the jaguar got a smaller dps them the lynx, that's really makes a difference to me, I am already used to compensate the lynx recoil at range, and the difference of dps from the lynx and jaguar is enought to make you lose a 1x1 with smg users.

That's is all for today, some other day when we are not in a double xp weekend, I will talk about all TR weapons but in short version:

HA msw for close combat, tmg-50 for long range, t7 to look a bad ass.
LA lynx
Medic sabr13 even with compensator, adv fore grip, high velocity, reflex 2x (or other ones), still sucks, keep using the cycler even at long ranges. There is a video teaching how to use the sabr13 on YouTube, but that's is in really perfect situations that you are not going to find on battlefields.
Inf - sr-7, somehow the accuracy of aiming down the sight is half a second smaller to be full accurate, them the new one, this really makes a difference when you need to hit your target fast, like a second shot when the first one wasn't a headshot or against enemy snipers that just hit you not in the head.

[JesNC]

Actually, I found the Lightning Viper to be superior to the HE at anti-infantry effectiveness.

Less splash, but a vastly increased RoF - and you still one-shot infantry on direct hits.

[Dragonskin]

@Dragonskin also note how most of those miss.

You didn't watch the whole vid Figment... shame on you. If you are not going to put the effort into at least learning what you are talking about with slugs then I'm not going to debate their effectiveness in game.

Planetside 2 has them at a pretty good place in my opinion. If you want a game where they are more OP then look at Battlefield.

[Snydenthur]

Slug ammunition can be ridonkulous
In the VR I seemed to have a way easier time SMGs that I remember in practice, even using targets near the end of the range. This makes me really want a section that has randomly moving targets, cause even though part of my brain says "yeah slug ammo against moving targets at range is way harder", the other part is saying "holy damn I OHK a guy with a shotgun at 50m"

I haven't tested the vr, but my in-game tests really don't favor slugs. They deal a massive damage, but you have to stand still to hit something (and the enemy has to stand still too because of the slow bullet velocity). That's why you'll die a lot when using them. Much better to just use any other weapon. I even think battle rifle is much better than a shotgun with slugs and battle rifles are one of the worst weapons in game.

[almalino]

NC Infiltrator: Blitzh GD10

I could tear apart 2 guys in VR without reloading and have 400 bullets with ammo belt. That is the next gun I'm going to buy for Infiltrator for CC

[Rothnang]

I think the Zephyr PX isn't supposed to be in the game yet. It's just a clone of the Zephyr with a new model currently, it doesn't even have its own tooltip. I think it's a weapon that is in development where some dev forgot to take out of the live patch, or mark it as not yet available.

Since there is no reference to the Zephyr PX anywhere in the patch notes or the devs announcements or anything I'm inclined to believe that it's a weapon that's still in the works technically.



The default nosegun for the Liberator is actually better at anti-air than the Tankbuster, it does insane damage to aircraft. The reason why the tankbuster is so much more popular is because the tankbuster can tear through ground targets at a high rate as well.

[Palerion]

Huge revelation. Combat medic is a great infantry killer 1v1, even compared to HA with its assault rifle.

[Falcon_br]

I think the Zephyr PX isn't supposed to be in the game yet. It's just a clone of the Zephyr with a new model currently, it doesn't even have its own tooltip. I think it's a weapon that is in development where some dev forgot to take out of the live patch, or mark it as not yet available.

Since there is no reference to the Zephyr PX anywhere in the patch notes or the devs announcements or anything I'm inclined to believe that it's a weapon that's still in the works technically.



The default nosegun for the Liberator is actually better at anti-air than the Tankbuster, it does insane damage to aircraft. The reason why the tankbuster is so much more popular is because the tankbuster can tear through ground targets at a high rate as well.

Zephyr PX is the same as the TX1 FB.
Both are promotional weapons.
TX1 FB is from a facebook promotion before during beta.
Zephyr PX is given when you use a planetside 2 nvidia europe code. That´s the exclusive weapon in the bundle.
I think they nerfed the Zephyr, but forgot to nerf the Zephyr PX, as I am testing right now on the battlefield.

Tank Buster is the final anti air weapon for the liberator, it is slow, it not precise and it got a big drop off.
But with it you can kill enemy liberators with less them 5 seconds, and in air fight the damage is so much superior them the default one, them after you get used to the fallout, it is really much more effective!
Good times when I cleared a amp station capture point just using the anti tank buster, it is almost one shot kill infantry.

[Falcon_br]

Sorry for double post

[Emperor Newt]

Actually, I found the Lightning Viper to be superior to the HE at anti-infantry effectiveness.

Less splash, but a vastly increased RoF - and you still one-shot infantry on direct hits.
Since the nerf even HEAT is almost as good at killing inf as HE. And is also way more effective in AV. The nerf bat hit HE pretty hard.

I haven't tested the vr, but my in-game tests really don't favor slugs. They deal a massive damage, but you have to stand still to hit something (and the enemy has to stand still too because of the slow bullet velocity). That's why you'll die a lot when using them. Much better to just use any other weapon. I even think battle rifle is much better than a shotgun with slugs and battle rifles are one of the worst weapons in game.
I use slugs a lot. They are only viable in mid to long ranges. The slow bullet velocity makes hitting moving target hard, but not impossible. But slugs are a perfect anti sniper weapon.
They CAN be used in close combat but any slight movement will throw off your shots completely and they will land anywhere but not where you were aiming at. They can work if the enemy is within five meters, but even then I would not call them a viable choice.
Haven't tested them with pump action shotguns yet but I suppose (judging from the damage normal shotguns do) they are beasts in mid-long range scenarios if you can hit with them.

[JesNC]

Since the nerf even HEAT is almost as good at killing inf as HE. And is also way more effective in AV. The nerf bat hit HE pretty hard.

Sorry, but good riddance IMO.

[DManD]

Biggest surprise was seeing that the underbarrel shotgun acts like the pump action one, one-hit-kill in shot range.

[luvthesnapper]

i couldn't see where the fuck i was shooting sometimes because of the muzzle flash

The HS/VX 1x sight helps with the flash as well. I use it night and day, many times. No flash while ads, though the range you can see enemies is limited. I like it, myself.

[Falcon_br]

I gave a second chance to the T5 AMC today, and it performed much better today after the GU 04 them it used to performe before.
Everyone knew that the T5 AMC got nerfed late in the beta and they forgot to rebalance it, maybe they did it in the GU 04 and forgot to place it in the patch notes, I need to check in the unofficial real patch notes to confirm it.

[ringring]

I gave a second chance to the T5 AMC today, and it performed much better today after the GU 04 them it used to performe before.
Everyone knew that the T5 AMC got nerfed late in the beta and they forgot to rebalance it, maybe they did it in the GU 04 and forgot to place it in the patch notes, I need to check in the unofficial real patch notes to confirm it.
I've started to play with the T5 AMC in the last few weeks and I really like it. (I don't think it changed in GU04 or at least I didn't notice any)

I think I'll run with
T5 AMC - Engy
T1 Cycler - Medic
T16 Rhino - HA

[Fimconte]

Hover is vastly superior to Dogfighting. Dropped 700 certs on it as a result.

I really feel like Dogfighting is actually meant for A2G role, since it only really helps with aiming the main-cannon at infantry.

[JesNC]

Hover is vastly superior to Dogfighting. Dropped 700 certs on it as a result.

I really feel like Dogfighting is actually meant for A2G role, since it only really helps with aiming the main-cannon at infantry.

I made the contrary experience with the Reaver - I found the Dogfighting frame to be much more agile and all around better than the Hover frame.

[Hmr85]

I wish the VR came with all the other buildings out there in world that you would find when taking a outpost. Not just the tower. We like to do training camps every once in awhile and it would nice to do it in VR instead in live.

[Koadster]

I gave a second chance to the T5 AMC today, and it performed much better today after the GU 04 them it used to performe before.
Everyone knew that the T5 AMC got nerfed late in the beta and they forgot to rebalance it, maybe they did it in the GU 04 and forgot to place it in the patch notes, I need to check in the unofficial real patch notes to confirm it.

Didnt get any buffs, been using it for months. Always been a good gun it just gets over shadowed by the Lynx/Jag fanbois

[Frotang]

I discovered a somewhat viable ranged NC MAX setup: Dual Mattocks with slugs + extended mags. That extra bullet velocity with the Mattock really aids in hitting moving targets with the slug.

[Mordelicius]

Biggest shocks and revelations?

- GD-7F is a monster. Powerful and deadly at any range. It's quite sick. I'm leery of switching to this for my Engy. Seems like a nerf magnet. Requires very little aim and kills faster than HA weapons.

- Having been on the receiving on on plenty of the new shotguns, I tried them out and confirmed they are ridiculously OP. The way things are going, CQC are all going to be exclusively shotgun wars. :doh:

- Gauss Saw has no real replacement. The closest one imo is EM1. It has a great feel, hits good and better at close range.

- The AV Engy turret is stupendously easy to use.

[Snydenthur]

- Having been on the receiving on on plenty of the new shotguns, I tried them out and confirmed they are ridiculously OP. The way things are going, CQC are all going to be exclusively shotgun wars. :doh:

That's the only thing that you can expect from a shotgun. 0-5m is dominated by the shotguns. They are good up to 10m, but not overpowering anymore. Beyond that, you have to take too many shots to be effective, unless you have luck on your side and get most of the pellets to hit. Perfectly balanced.

And semi auto shotguns are still the best shotguns.

[Figment]

Snydentur, try shotguns with slugs. >.> I think you'll be surprised.

[Ghoest9]

Snydentur, try shotguns with slugs. >.> I think you'll be surprised.

Trying play the game instead of sitting in VR with a slugs.

I think you will be surprised.

[Chewy]

Snydentur, try shotguns with slugs. >.> I think you'll be surprised.

I have. They are not worth it over using another weapon that can have an underslung attachment or even default weapons.

The only time I have ever gotten use out of slugs is in holding the landing pads at a tower or bio-lab. Travel time to far to long, bullet drop to intense, and that recoil is a nightmare to be of use against moving ground targets. So that leaves the people camping tower tops and bio-lab domes. Not that bad for those things but in a Mauler it takes 3 slugs for a kill.

With another weapon I can chip roofers and still be a pest to ground targets without having to expose myself for any amount of time. Besides a good smoke grenade spam chain can do a LOT more for a team than slugs.

[Falcon_br]

I really think that if you are going to camp firing at enemies you should try a sniper rifle or the battle rifle.

[Rolfski]

Trying play the game instead of sitting in VR with a slugs.

I think you will be surprised.
I second that. I was pleasantly surprised by slug performance in the VR room, imagining I could use the shotgun as an all-round solution for my LA. So I certed into slug and a 4x scope (using hipfire up close) only to find out that I'm now not hitting anything close AND long range anymore. In CQB slugs will definitely hamper your performance over regular pallet ammo unless you're a magical shot with an amazing rig that grands you 60fps plus lag free performance in every meat grinder battle.
At range, the atrocious bullet speed and drop-off makes you only hit targets that are stupid enough to sit still for ages. Forget about doing any quick follow-up shots you can do with semi-auto snipers and battle rifles.

No doubt some people like their slugs and are very skilled with it but so far I have a hard time getting a better performance out of it compared to other weapon solutions.

[Assist]

also, the flash suppressor is really useful for the T9 CARV. constantly before i got the flash suppressor, and especially at night, i couldn't see where the fuck i was shooting sometimes because of the muzzle flash. now i can aim better at night and gives me more reasons to play as HA at night :D


This is my biggest complaint about the VS weapons. The muzzle flash is horrrrrrrrrrrrrrible compared to the VR/NC. Not to mention we get bright neon lights right in our face at night. The only reason I use the NV scope is because of muzzle flash.

[Hamma]

I still have yet to get some solid time in VR Training.. playing the PSU meta game. :lol:

[Kail]

Coming from someone who rather likes the Lasher, I was surprised by how... medicore the jackhammer is. In testing it alongside other shotguns, I couldn't find any benefit to it that would make me want it.


It seems to have higher damage than the semi-auto shotguns, but the pump shotgun definitely does more
It doesn't have any more rounds than other shotguns options
It's magazine isn't any bigger
Shotguns are already very limited in the attachments department (surpassed only by sniper rifles), and the Jackhammer forgoes even sight or slug customizations.


I've been having fun on my little NC HA grunt with the Gauss SAW, but I've been missing the lasher and was hoping the JH would quell my need for a more "interesting" weapon, but I can't see any reason why I would get it.

[Falcon_br]

I just wish my t7 chaingun could equip extended mags AND laser sights at the same time. In all other weapons they are not exclusive.
Also he was very bad nerfed at the end of the beta, in beta I could use it in open grounds, now it is horrible to try that, just use it in biolabs, but the msw-r is much more superior, or just use any shotgun.

[Juryrig]

I just wish my t7 chaingun could equip extended mags AND laser sights at the same time. In all other weapons they are not exclusive.


I'm at work so can't check, but I'm pretty sure they are mutually exclusive on all weapons, as they both take up the 'rail' slot.

It's high velocity/soft point ammunition that has a separate slot.

I could be completely wrong, of course.

[PredatorFour]

I second that. I was pleasantly surprised by slug performance in the VR room, imagining I could use the shotgun as an all-round solution for my LA. So I certed into slug and a 4x scope (using hipfire up close) only to find out that I'm now not hitting anything close AND long range anymore. In CQB slugs will definitely hamper your performance over regular pallet ammo unless you're a magical shot with an amazing rig that grands you 60fps plus lag free performance in every meat grinder battle.
At range, the atrocious bullet speed and drop-off makes you only hit targets that are stupid enough to sit still for ages. Forget about doing any quick follow-up shots you can do with semi-auto snipers and battle rifles.

No doubt some people like their slugs and are very skilled with it but so far I have a hard time getting a better performance out of it compared to other weapon solutions.

I use phobos and slug rounds with extended mag/nv scope and it's the dogs. If your accuracy is good its a sniper shotgun basically, once you know how to lead targets it's a very satisfying weapon. I can two shot most enemies from close up to about 40/50 meters and i get 7 in a clip with extended mag. Bio labs are just wow ;)

[Rolfski]

It's definitely a skilled based weapon that requires practice. I might give slugs another try but for now I was getting annoyed being killed all the time.
As said before, considering the laggy and chaotic nature of this game, I rather prefer bullet hose weapons with a higher margin of error.