PlanetSide 2 eSports Details from MLG

[Hamma]

https://twitter.com/psucom/status/313394073786527744

https://twitter.com/psucom/status/313394311960080384

https://twitter.com/psucom/status/313395386440089600

https://twitter.com/psucom/status/313396134649401344

https://twitter.com/psucom/status/313396843008651264

[Hamma]

Outfits will be on ranked ladders within the game.
There will be separate competition areas that are built similarly to existing bases for familiarity.
Weapons will be restricted to guarantee balance during the fights.
Working directly with MLG to develop the competition areas.
Live MLG Show starting on Sunday the 31st.

[basti]

Sounds good! :)

[Sonny]

From 31st March onwards?! I wonder if the instanced maps be ready for this date or just the 'in-game' ladder functionality?

Exciting stuff!

[p0intman]

shit idea, shit concept.

[Sledgecrushr]

Sounds like a lot of fun to watch some good players shoot each other. Cant wait for the games to begin.

[ChipMHazard]

Wonder if the eSports side of things will just be handled by spectating, will they have small enough team fights to allow for teams to be physically present at MLG events?
Only news I'm surprised about, in a good way, is that they will restrict weapon choices. Also I Wonder what they will have ready by the 31st.

[basti]

shit idea, shit concept.


You only hate it because i like it!

[onewingedangel]

I'm disappointed stuff like this is a focus when Planetside should be focused on massive combat. I left Battlefield 3 for a reason.

[Roy Awesome]

I like this, honestly. This game is really fun in the platoon vs platoon combat.

TEST will probably be fielding a team

[bpostal]

Oh fuck me, it looks like they're gonna do it.
I goddamn hate esports.

[basti]

I'm disappointed stuff like this is a focus when Planetside should be focused on massive combat. I left Battlefield 3 for a reason.


The focus remains to be Massive battles.

THe whole esport thing happens partially in the massive battles as well! Outfits can only get higher on the leaderboard by playing the massive battles.

Only then they can go up against other outfits in the instanced part. And only if SOE lets them. No way for anyone to go into the instances by themself.

[ChipMHazard]

I'm disappointed stuff like this is a focus when Planetside should be focused on massive combat. I left Battlefield 3 for a reason.

It will still be massive, well that might depend on whether or not they want smaller teams to compete physically. The addition of a competitive stage doesn't mean that the focus has shifted away from how Planetside 2 plays on a day-to-day basis. This will be an addition, not a replacement.

[p0intman]

When your primary part of the game is playing in the equivilent of instanced arenas, you relinquish your right to have an opinion on anything on the main game.

[Mod]

Ladder based on what scoring mechanic?

[Rahabib]

Still very few details to say if this will work. 50v50 ain't gonna cut it.

[Mastachief]

Interesting. Hope these ladders and layouts cater for smaller more skilled outfits.

[basti]

When your primary part of the game is playing in the equivilent of instanced arenas, you relinquish your right to have an opinion on anything on the main game.

This isnt even possible.

You cannot enter the instance alone. You HAVE to play the real game in order to be put on the leaderboards.

[SwiftRanger]

I can understand Outfits needed some incentives but this wasn't the solution I had hoped for. It's probably the easiest way out for SOE but Outfit-owned bases/carriers and metagame improvements should be the main priority.

I really hope this e-sports thing isn't taking many resources away from the main game because the latter still needs a ton of work (and some actual realization or vision of certain wild ideas which were proposed some time ago, even by the devs themselves) to remain interesting in the long run. Don't forget that, SOE.

[Selerox]

eSports isn't why people play PS2. We want scale. We want scope.

We don't want a crappy mechanic to cater for egotistical eSport wannabes who will demand the game become something that it's not.

So instead of using the effort and resources to actually fix and improve the game you have, you're going to create a whole new tier of the game to cater for the exact kind of people that lots of players picked up PS2 to avoid?

Wrong. Answer.

[ringring]

I'm not interested in playing and I suppose this is taking developer time away from building new continents and as such I don't want it, but other than that, don't care.

[p0intman]

I can understand Outfits needed some incentives but this wasn't the solution I had hoped for. It's probably the easiest way out for SOE but Outfit-owned bases/carriers and metagame improvements should be the main priority.

I really hope this e-sports thing isn't taking many resources away from the main game because the latter still needs a ton of work (and some actual realization or vision of certain wild ideas which were proposed some time ago, even by the devs themselves) to remain interesting in the long run. Don't forget that, SOE.

eSports isn't why people play PS2. We want scale. We want scope.

We don't want a crappy mechanic to cater for egotistical eSport wannabes who will demand the game become something that it's not.

So instead of using the effort and resources to actually fix and improve the game you have, you're going to create a whole new tier of the game to cater for the exact kind of people that lots of players picked up PS2 to avoid?

Wrong. Answer.
these two, pretty much. I honestly don't want to deal with the kinds of players this shit attracts.

[Firejack]

Can't say it interests me at all. I don't feel any enjoyment watching others play. And I don't have the time to commit to practising tactics and strategies to a competitive level.

Still if it widens the appeal of PlanetSide, brings in new players, more money and therefore more development in the game. I have no problem with the idea and hope it'll be a success :)

[basti]

these two, pretty much. I honestly don't want to deal with the kinds of players this shit attracts.

SO, you dont want to deal with players like you?


Would you fools get a clue about the topic please? Esports dont atract a certain kind of player. There is no certain kind of esport player to begin with.



What the hell are you guys even mad about? You get more players = more cash for SOE = they can put more support down for PS2.

[Rothnang]

Honestly, I find that extremely boring. What's the point of having esports in Planetside when the rabble doesn't get to charge the field?

The thing that would have made this entertaining is if everyone could have interfered.

[p0intman]

SO, you dont want to deal with players like you?


Would you fools get a clue about the topic please? Esports dont atract a certain kind of player. There is no certain kind of esport player to begin with.



What the hell are you guys even mad about? You get more players = more cash for SOE = they can put more support down for PS2.

Usually they are highly competitive, and bigger assholes than even i am. (basically, the COD/BF crowd that hates mmos)

[ghnurbles]

Personally, I'd love to watch some highly competitive PS2. I strongly disagree with weapons restrictions, though (it would be bizarre for players not to be able to play with their favourite weapons, and it would feel like you're not watching the same game).

For those that don't want to watch it, it still has benefits. E-sports has a wide audience, so this will function as a strong advertising campaign (if done well, at least). Bringing new players into the game and giving existing players a reason play more often and more competitively is not a bad thing.

[Pella]

I am glad that they have gone for balanced weapon setups.

While i hope that they stick to Squad v Squad. And another option for platoon v platoon. For the sake of the spectator really. As much as FNO is fun its confusing and hard to see whats going on.

Things will get intresting. But i sure hope they have a separate ladder for EU/US. As EU players are generally better at FPSs for some reason.

And the haters that dont want Esports. PS1 was played purely outfit v outfit at its height of enjoyment. Same shit different game.

[Stanis]

My grudge with eSports and instances .. if they took development time away from additional continents or any of the other features we've been begging for - it's a bad thing.


Can't say I care about eSports personally.
I'm sure it will very much be the focus of some outfits and many players.

I don't get why you'd watch people play a game instead of play the game yourself.

[Sledgecrushr]

We already know they can do a base instance, that was the fist look I ever saw of ps2. As far as esports go, heroes will be born in the reguar game. These heroes will be flagged to go into the esports arena and fight for their empires for glory and a little bit of cashola. I am really lookin forward to seeing these heroes play and I hope that some of them will come from my server connery.

[Badjuju]

My grudge with eSports and instances .. if they took development time away from additional continents or any of the other features we've been begging for - it's a bad thing.


Can't say I care about eSports personally.
I'm sure it will very much be the focus of some outfits and many players.

I don't get why you'd watch people play a game instead of play the game yourself.
For the same reason people watch any other sport. They enjoy watching competition. I atm am watching the startcraft championships even though I don't play star craft. People simply enjoy competition.

@ pointman, as far as the people it attracts, you cant generalize that much. There is already no shortage of douche bags in Planetside, just watch the chat spam. It is a more of a generational thing than a player base thing. You also have to consider every kid in America plays COD or BF3. Most people playing PS3 play one of those games as well. You cant assume that just because they play one of those games they are automatically an ass.

[CzuukWaterson]

Outfits will be on ranked ladders within the game.
There will be separate competition areas that are built similarly to existing bases for familiarity.
Weapons will be restricted to guarantee balance during the fights.
Working directly with MLG to develop the competition areas.
Live MLG Show starting on Sunday the 31st.

Hell yeah. Now I can find out what it might be like to dog fight without 3 or 5 other pilots shooting at me. ;)

[CzuukWaterson]

eSports isn't why people play PS2. We want scale. We want scope.

We don't want a crappy mechanic to cater for egotistical eSport wannabes who will demand the game become something that it's not.

So instead of using the effort and resources to actually fix and improve the game you have, you're going to create a whole new tier of the game to cater for the exact kind of people that lots of players picked up PS2 to avoid?

Wrong. Answer.

Nobody is asking for this. The game mechanics are fine. People do want this. You are not the only person in the world. I for one don't give a rats ass what you think.

[ShockFC]

Interesting...

48 people is a lot to manage though, I get they want scale - but that's going to eliminate a lot of outfits who otherwise would have been very competitive.

I will work my hardest to see if I can get this flying for my outfit, but I'm making zero promises - honestly sounds like more work than I want to/am able to invest.

24v24 on the other hand? Very doable

[Chewy]

Interesting...

48 people is a lot to manage though, I get they want scale - but that's going to eliminate a lot of outfits who otherwise would have been very competitive.

I will work my hardest to see if I can get this flying for my outfit, but I'm making zero promises - honestly sounds like more work than I want to/am able to invest.

24v24 on the other hand? Very doable

It needs to be at least 3 levels of play.

Squad level of with just 1-2 squads for each faction
Platoon level with up to a full platoon for each faction
Outfit level where there is no player limit but what the server can handle.

That makes room for low pop outfits and the huge 1,000+ member outfits. To hell with the problems big number brings, it isn't Planetside without big numbers and that HAS to be an option. Why bother with making PS2 an esport if it isn't PS2?

[DirtyBird]

Wonder how this is going to work in AU or maybe we aren't invited!

Can you create a team of 48 players just for the purpose of esports while keeping your individual outfits for general play?
If not, why not? its not part of everyday play.


And I can see now why the Roadmap has lost its focus and why we have had long delays.

[AThreatToYou]

Weapons will be restricted to guarantee balance during the fights.

So basically SOE is saying, "Our game is pretty bad in some areas, so we'll gimp it to make sure it doesn't look like it actually is."

[MrKwatz]

I do not support this method of competitive play at all. It strips the game of what makes planetside unique, the persistent war being participated in by hundreds/thousands of players with an overarching strategical level beyond the tactical level that this method was simply described to operate at. Small, isolated base attacks being successfully carried out by an outfit mean nothing if they don't have the same variables as what they would be affected by in the actual game.

How I believe this should have been structured instead:
Outfits structured into several different Outfit weights (>1024, >512, >144, >96 >48, >24 etc) competing within their respective weight classes. Each class of competition can then have multiple outfits competing on one whole continent, for instance 5 2 platoon outfits on each faction competing to cap all of Amerish, starting from the warpgate with neutral territory. Or 10 4 platoon outfits on each faction capping all 3 continents. Factions get kicked off if they get warplocked, and the whole faction wins when they get everything capped, with sub victories for most base caps/defenses per outfit for instance. This way also allows you to support small and large outfits alike.
Each outfit would only have their outfit/platoon/squad leaders present at the physical event with the rest of the outfit playing from home. Doing it this way you still retain the strategical overgame of planetside, having to deal with more than just a distilled, isolated, facility. Planetside needs to take MLG in a new direction, it should ABSOLUTELY NOT conform to what other arena games do.

[Mastachief]

Should Tier as

24vs24
48vs48
96vs96

Personally i would like to see a requirement that all participants must have been members of their outfit for a minimum of 10days

[Scarr]

Ladder based on what scoring mechanic?

Based on hacks obviously. Whichever side brings the most hackers wins!

[Koadster]

The thing I hate most is this will take away Dev time from the real game. No wonder the roadmap is nearly a month behind. It was ok in planetside because you already had a fully fleshed game. In ps2 we are still fighting over the same indar day in day out and gu04 made a lot of bugs that will properly be there for ages since its all about mlg now. Hell I get more fps in arma3 alpha then ps2 now. I lost 50 fps from last patch.

I think this will be worse for the game then the benefits it will bring. Also the 'elitist mlg' mindset is gonna appear which I've seen in cod trolling videos and does nothing good for the game.

They need to stabilize the core game first.

[p0intman]

The thing I hate most is this will take away Dev time from the real game. No wonder the roadmap is nearly a month behind. It was ok in planetside because you already had a fully fleshed game. In ps2 we are still fighting over the same indar day in day out and gu04 made a lot of bugs that will properly be there for ages since its all about mlg now. Hell I get more fps in arma3 alpha then ps2 now. I lost 50 fps from last patch.

I think this will be worse for the game then the benefits it will bring. Also the 'elitist mlg' mindset is gonna appear which I've seen in cod trolling videos and does nothing good for the game.

They need to stabilize the core game first.
Its unfortunate that those that see this are in the minority right now, and even if we were in the majority, SOE still wouldnt give a shit.

I feel like we're still in beta and I have to tell SOE why their ideas are fucking retarded and actually lay it all out, but for the life of me, I also don't care enough to articulate it all because I know that SOE still wouldn't do shit about it even if we all did. So, I'm actually apathetic and just don't give a shit. In some ways, I hope that the first person who 'wins' their first 'major' tourney is a hacker or something and it just blows up in their face for the irony and hilarity of the opportunity to say 'I told you so'.

Why? Because fuck MLG. Thats why.

[Empra]

I don't understand why some people have such a negative, knee jerk reaction to this. The main bread and butter for all E sports games is the core fan who isn't interested in the E sports section. All E sports does is promote the main game and have a fun competitive element to the game. More money for the game means more focus on PS2 by SOE.

[Rumblepit]

i told everybody it was gonna happen!"planetside 2 will be a esport"....
i told everybody how it was gonna happen!"matches could be setup to be squad vs squad, or platoon vs platoon", called it,"on small maps not in game",called it.and" all COMMON Pool Weapons",,,,, yes i called this too.

everyone said it would never happen, and i was stupid for thinking it .
im not one to say this often ,but i told ya so back in may 2012.:groovy:

http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?t=41684




__________________

[BIGGByran]

There's no ESport in PlanetSide.

I know Higby's all gung-ho about ESports and loves StarCraft, but apart from StarCraft in South Korea and DoTA there are no real ESports, and they're only big in countries that don't have big normal sports. It really is a strange StarCraft phenomena.

The only Teams in PlanetSide are the empires, and those teams play each other constantly every day in PlanetSide. If anything there might be "seasons" where empire success is measured by resource income, territory ownership, captures, and similar metrics which show that empire being successful against the other empires. They could also display that sort of thing each and every day in PlanetSide or through fan sites and apps.

Blizzard tried really hard to E-sportify WoW with Arenas like they did with StarCraft and it failed horribly. They're likely going to try the same thing with D3. Some things aren't suited to be ESports, and PlanetSide is definitely one of them. I would say any MMO shouldn't be an E-sport. Trying to make it one would only detract from the game and add silly mechanics that shouldn't be there.

I see E-sports the same way I see PvE content - keep it the hell away from PlanetSide 2!


lol well I guess this didn't happen.

[Rumblepit]

lol well I guess this didn't happen.

im no physic,but momma didn't raise no fool!

[DirtyBird]

lol well I guess this didn't happen.
Money talks :D

[Rumblepit]

Money talks :D
lol you got that right...... this game just went to a different lvl.:)

[Chewy]

I don't understand why some people have such a negative, knee jerk reaction to this. The main bread and butter for all E sports games is the core fan who isn't interested in the E sports section. All E sports does is promote the main game and have a fun competitive element to the game. More money for the game means more focus on PS2 by SOE.

Main reason I see people not wanting PS2 to be an esport is because PS2 isn't finished yet. The hex system is a fucking HUGE clue to this fact. If something like how the entire map flows and is fought over changes it will ruin any and all ways to play the game and thus make its esports part near shit.

Think if DOTA or LoL went from 3 lanes to 5. What if Starcraft 2 went and had a massive change to how its maps worked like the new hex system changes PS2s maps? How fucked would the esports for those games be for the following months? Very! So much so that it may just kill themselves off without any way to undo the damage. What if baseball added another base or the rules changed in any sport?

A game should be feature complete with its feet rooted and base mechanics set in stone before becoming anything like a sport. If it isn't then there's nothing to master as it any/everything can/will change and thus no way to prove who is best. More weapons shouldn't hurt a thing, but things like the hex system is a big fucking no-no for any sport.

PS2 is just to young. This should have waited till after the 6 month plan or a year after launch.

[Helwyr]

Big thumbs down to Esports.

[shamE]

Good move I think, NUC will be playing.

[IHateMMOs]

Why are they trying to turn this game into an arcade shooter? Just for commercialism?

[p0intman]

heres whats so goddamn funny to me:

PS2 as an esport (as malorn said a while ago) is a dumb idea. It doesn't work. It can't work. And all the while, they're pushing on ahed and devoting development resources to this clusterfuck when there is a huge laundry list of things that need work. Meanwhile, they're apparently designing these arenas on bases that really aren't designed for fighting, from a tactical perspective.

They're actually bad places to fight, structurally. The only reason I would contribute to a base fight at an amp, tech or bio is because there is literally not a fight anywhere near any other decent facility that actually can sustain a fight without involving tanks and air murdering everyone, or isn't an awful slogfest like at biolabs.

So not only are they setting up a flawed idea, they're using poorly thought out bases as a basis for their arenas for their flawed idea.

Not only that, they've not waited at all, to solve any of the giant issues. They've openly said "No, we're not waiting, we're pushing ahed and your input, while valued, is about as useful as the trash bin". (Imo, thats what it seems like, despite the ideas being downvoted to shit on the roadmap, and being that they are at best divisive if you use the numbers (http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/june-outfit-tournaments.83021/) as samples that can be scaled up to the entire playerbase)

OK, fine, so be it. Smed and co are digging their own graves for PS2, just like they did in PS1. Its a flawed idea that at best, attracts people with even worse attitudes than mine, being centered around places to fight that in and of themselves, don't lend to fighting.

But hey, according to random people, I'm just a "single player maggot" who doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about.

0.00 cents, because I'm really honestly done giving a shit about this. let me know when it blows up in their face or fails entirely as the joke that it is. I've got other slightly more concerning things to rant about and write about like, why the current base designs had to be designed by somebody who enjoyed BF2 or COD more than planetside.

[shamE]

Why are they trying to turn this game into an arcade shooter? Just for commercialism?

They aren't trying to turn it into anything. This merely a side addition to the game that allows outfits to compete against each other if they choose.

[Pella]

They aren't trying to turn it into anything. This merely a side addition to the game that allows outfits to compete against each other if they choose.

Bang on.

It's content. And gives the majority of smaller outfits an actual reason and motivation to play.

[Blynd]

Anyone remember the outfit wars ??????


Weren't they competative ??????

Pointman stop whining its not going to change a thing. Yes I'm not bothered o e way or another , I don't want to watch it. But as an advertising mechanism to help soe gain more money to spend on the main game I don't have an issue with it. A competative element needs to be in any game for those hardcore players to push for. Be it an mmorpg going for a world first raid boss kill or an esports spot for their outfit its the same it drives the players to do better and play together well.

I don't care much for it but I hope its a success because we could all benefit off the back of it.

[BlaxicanX]

heres whats so goddamn funny to me:

PS2 as an esport (as malorn said a while ago) is a dumb idea. It doesn't work. It can't work. And all the while, they're pushing on ahed and devoting development resources to this clusterfuck when there is a huge laundry list of things that need work. Meanwhile, they're apparently designing these arenas on bases that really aren't designed for fighting, from a tactical perspective.

They're actually bad places to fight, structurally. The only reason I would contribute to a base fight at an amp, tech or bio is because there is literally not a fight anywhere near any other decent facility that actually can sustain a fight without involving tanks and air murdering everyone, or isn't an awful slogfest like at biolabs.

So not only are they setting up a flawed idea, they're using poorly thought out bases as a basis for their arenas for their flawed idea.

Not only that, they've not waited at all, to solve any of the giant issues. They've openly said "No, we're not waiting, we're pushing ahed and your input, while valued, is about as useful as the trash bin". (Imo, thats what it seems like, despite the ideas being downvoted to shit on the roadmap, and being that they are at best divisive if you use the numbers (http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/june-outfit-tournaments.83021/) as samples that can be scaled up to the entire playerbase)

OK, fine, so be it. Smed and co are digging their own graves for PS2, just like they did in PS1. Its a flawed idea that at best, attracts people with even worse attitudes than mine, being centered around places to fight that in and of themselves, don't lend to fighting.

But hey, according to random people, I'm just a "single player maggot" who doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about.

0.00 cents, because I'm really honestly done giving a shit about this. let me know when it blows up in their face or fails entirely as the joke that it is. I've got other slightly more concerning things to rant about and write about like, why the current base designs had to be designed by somebody who enjoyed BF2 or COD more than planetside.

Here's what's so goddamn funny to me:

You keep stating that you're a cool nihilist and you don't care anymore. But you keep coming back in here to bitch anyway.

[Artimus]

I'm just curious.. Is there an offical roster floating around somewhere for who is going to be competeting in esports?

[Kinya]

All E sports does is promote the main game and have a fun competitive element to the game. More money for the game means more focus on PS2 by SOE.

Personally I don't mind e-sports especially if it might help SOE in promoting all their games. More money for SOE, more goodies for players later on. At least that's how I feel.
The only thing I don't understand is why SOE instead of placing mlg info about planetside 2 on their twitchtv channel, sends players to twitchtv/mlg channel which you have to actually subscribe (pay) to watch it...
Unless I am missing something...

[BIGGByran]

Deleted. Miss read sorry.

[Mox]

A huge waste of money and time. Instead of focusing on more conts, meta game and so on, SOE is throwing their resources on this esport thing.

By the way, the game is still in a real bad state. Even if they are able to get some publicity with this mlg-deal the new players wont stay with the game for a long time and probably wont spend any money.

[Monsta]

Sounds very interesting. My only concern is having those maps available 24/7, that will hurt Auraxis..

[Mastachief]

A huge waste of money and time. Instead of focusing on more conts, meta game and so on, SOE is throwing their resources on this esport thing.

By the way, the game is still in a real bad state. Even if they are able to get some publicity with this mlg-deal the new players wont stay with the game for a long time and probably wont spend any money.

This is also true but remember SOE have a large and varied team working on PS2 much like a multicore cpu they can run multiple threads of development. The mlg partnership will probably have been in the works for many months and it may well be that SOE expected the game to have developed faster than it has. (Had they bothered to listen to beta testers it would not have been released until next month). This is likely a case of "ready or not here i come".

Next up they will tell is that its for U.S outfits only....... (you read it here first)

Atleast with the test server coming we should see a reduction in crappy quality patch releases, so once the gu04 is fixed the game can move forwards.

[bpostal]

Bang on.

It's content. And gives the majority of smaller outfits an actual reason and motivation to play.

Smaller outfits, and smaller portions of larger outfits, absolutely need things to do that have a meaningful and lasting impact, I agree 100% there.

What I don't agree with is shunting these smaller outfits to esports instead of adding things in the actual game to keep them engaged.

[Babyfark McGeez]

Bullshit idea with no relation to the concept of the game (war =/= sports).

And since it seems more elaborate than just "private server" style, this tacked-on part of the game even takes up resources better spent elsewhere (in this case on more continents to get this game finally rolling).

That doesn't mean i'm generally opposing e-sports, i find it silly but if you like it, knock yourself out. I just can't see planetside benefitting from this one bit.

[NewSith]

In short: ITYS. I told you to accept the fact as is and figure out a way to properly implement it. But now it's all going straight to hell and the funny part is - many (not just pointman) are still in denial.

If we expand it a bit:
1.
This is also true but remember SOE have a large and varied team working on PS2 much like a multicore cpu they can run multiple threads of development. The mlg partnership will probably have been in the works for many months and it may well be that SOE expected the game to have developed faster than it has. (Had they bothered to listen to beta testers it would not have been released until next month). This is likely a case of "ready or not here i come"

I doubt their team is large enough to have separate teams designing weapons, levels and art for Esport part. So the resources WILL be drawn away.

2.
While I disagree with pointman about ESports being a bad idea, he is still correct about the fact that ESport will have effect on the general game. Why? Because ESportsmen need to train.
There're 2 options to create environment for that:
A) to have 24/7 access to instances - and the game will no longer be persistent at all
B) to let ESportsmen into general population with their arena guns, drawing away many of ESportsmen, since they will not train in the environment different from the one they compete in.

So have no illusions about it, please.

3.
SOE will just ruin the idea. Which is fine, by the way, despite all the things controversial about it. The problem is going to be execution of the idea, flawed as hell. The "road so far" shows how SOE handles things with PS2.

PlanetSport 2 will not take off. Mark my words. The game is completely unattractive to a competitive player, since the only thing that makes PS stand out is scale. And as Pella said, nobody will sponsor a team consisting of 24 players. So in the end, when ESports are in, poorly developed and even more poorly organized, they will first devastate the pool of common players and in no more than 3 months, even the most dedicated ESportsmen will go, since the game doesn't offer any perspective nor innovation. And so it will die. In less than 3 years.


This all means that when I come back to playing in late autumn I can say ITYS again.

[psijaka]

I'm with Pointman on this; complete waste of time and resources. PS2 is just not that sort of game.

[Hamma]

I've read this entire thread every post and there are some pretty big misconceptions that always come up when something is announced.

Does this require development time? Yes. Has it yet? Doesn't appear so, or we would have seen some of this stuff showcased yesterday. This is on the roadmap (which is broken here at work so I can't see what month) so it's been part of development planning for some time.

Are we surprised this is coming? Really? You shouldn't be. If you paid any attention to UES in January you would know this partnership was announced. This partnership consists of a variety of different things including collaboration between SOE and MLG to develop an eSport in PlanetSide 2. This isn't really new information stop acting like it would all of a sudden disappear. This partnership works both ways PlanetSide 2 is getting MASSIVE promotion on MLG's various channels and websites. This is benefiting all of us, because it's causing the community to grow. PlanetSide 2 is also getting prominent location at the MLG events this year - just inside the main entrance this past weekend.

Remember guys, Fans of eSport are not always competitors in eSport. We had tons of older folks who started playing the game this past weekend. Fathers and Sons trying out the game and having a good time. Just because SOE is using MLG to promote the game doesn't mean 0MGWTFBBQ0202 #1 COD PLAYER is the ONLY demographic in eSports. Smarten up.

People enjoy eSports because they like watching competition. They aren't all elite player asshats. Just like people who watch football all ages and races watch because they enjoy competition.

Is this going to take away from the massive game we all know and love? Of course not, what is wrong with you? PlanetSide 2 at it's core is still an MMOFPS. It will remain a massive online shooter until the day it's gone. eSports will be built ON TOP of this using the game itself, if you don't want anything to do with it you won't have to.

Will this fail and ruin the game or community? Who knows, nobody here can even pretend to know that. Can you guess? Sure. But you really have no clue at all.

As someone who got their start playing competitively in Tribes before eSports took off I'm excited at the proposition of competing in PlanetSide 2. Though, I will likely take a back seat in actual competition itself there was nothing like listening to a Tribes match back in the day to get the adrenaline pumping.

Have an open mind and quit acting like this is a doomed prospect from the start. None of you know that, you can guess just like anyone else but you have no clue if this will work or not.

[Assist]

these two, pretty much. I honestly don't want to deal with the kinds of players this shit attracts.

You do realize that generalizing a group of players is completely destroying any argument you have? If outsiders judged the Planetside community on your posts and your attitude then we'd look worse than any gaming community out there.

I'm fine with what they've stated so far. The only thing I dislike is selecting certain weapons for the competition events. That's pretty much stating that the game is too unbalanced for even population operations, which is a problem and limiting what weapons can be used isn't a solution.

[NewSith]

Have an open mind and quit acting like this is a doomed prospect from the start. None of you know that, you can guess just like anyone else but you have no clue if this will work or not.

The way it is right now, it is a doomed concept.


For PlanetSport 2 to succeed, or even take off, it needs to either be completely unorthodox and proto-revolutionary (a-la THIS (http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?t=43707)) or needs not to be at all. 30vs30 PCW is not an innovation, it is a failed concept, otherwise people would already participate in BF competitions of that kind. There's more than enough alternatives to play, some of which are way more thought out and successful, hence PS2 does not need a cybersport appendix that will not attract and hold any players.

[Assist]

The way it is right now, it is a doomed concept.


For PlanetSport 2 to succeed, or even take off, it needs to either be completely unorthodox and proto-revolutionary (a-la THIS (http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?t=43707)) or needs not to be at all. 30vs30 PCW is not an innovation, otherwise people would already play BF competitively that way. There's more than enough alternatives to play, some of which are way more thought out and successful.

You guys are contradicting yourselves over and over. You think it's going to fail because you believe it's going to be designed the same as the other MLG arena shooters? wut? If it's designed the same it will succeed, the same way SC2 succeeded over SC1. Saying re-hashing the same material is going to fail is a little ridiculous given the history of competition level gaming.

Also, no one has said it's going to be the same thing and as you said if it's something innovative than it will succeed. The way it is currently shaping up, and the fact that they've said it's going to have ladders based on outfit size, there is nothing out there like it. It brings an entirely new crop of clans into the mix when you allow different sized outfits into the competition.

edit: The largest size in current MLG competition is 8v8. You really think that this isn't going to attract larger outfits and therefore more players? There are a massive number of competitive players out there who play MMO's now, they want a game that supports the size and scope of their interests. Denying this for the hell of it isn't making sense to me.

[NewSith]

You guys are contradicting yourselves over and over. You think it's going to fail because you believe it's going to be designed the same as the other MLG arena shooters? wut? If it's designed the same it will succeed, the same way SC2 succeeded over SC1. Saying re-hashing the same material is going to fail is a little ridiculous given the history of competition level gaming.

SC one = ESport, SC2 = ESport
*** = ESport, PS2 = ESport

Your example is a little bit for a different problem, which I do not say exist.

Also, no one has said it's going to be the same thing and as you said if it's something innovative than it will succeed. The way it is currently shaping up, and the fact that they've said it's going to have ladders based on outfit size, there is nothing out there like it. It brings an entirely new crop of clans into the mix when you allow different sized outfits into the competition.

Complicated clan management is not an innovation either. Look at where Global Agenda is right now...

edit: The largest size in current MLG competition is 8v8. You really think that this isn't going to attract larger outfits and therefore more players? There are a massive number of competitive players out there who play MMO's now, they want a game that supports the size and scope of their interests. Denying this for the hell of it isn't making sense to me.

Take a thorough read of my post:
30vs30 PCW is not an innovation, it is a failed concept, otherwise people would already participate in BF competitions of that kind.

[Pella]

Its happening so i suggest people embrace it.

As for Sizes, They have todo 12v12. Its a must.

[Rahabib]

There are two things I worry about most.

1) its going to only cater to large outfits (ala 50v50). this will restrict it to only a few teams. Not only that how are you going to get 50 people to want to compete often enough to make this viable? So your outfit will need probably at least 75 people. Good luck starting up a new outfit to compete. Want to go to MLG? - well SOE better be prepared to pay for 100 plane tickets cause no where are you going to find an outfit of 50 wanting to pay their own way.
2) by having some kind of "ladder" system in game, it will only encourage stat whoring. What fair criteria can they use? kills = large outfits and outfits that will cheese and camp. caps = outfits that are large and can play a lot more than the smaller outfits. KDR = stat whores. I dont see a system they can use IN GAME to make this work. The only system I can see making this work is to allow teams to schedule events outside the world game and compete for Wins and Loses without other factors interfering. If thats the case, and its scalable (lower than 50v50) then maybe it will work, but then all the in world players will be ticked off.

[Hamma]

The way it is right now, it is a doomed concept.


And again, we don't really know "what way it is" right now other than the very small details revealed on yesterdays stream. Were the team sizes even something he mentioned? If so I missed it.

[Pella]

There are two things I worry about most.

1) its going to only cater to large outfits (ala 50v50). this will restrict it to only a few teams. Not only that how are you going to get 50 people to want to compete often enough to make this viable? So your outfit will need probably at least 75 people. Good luck starting up a new outfit to compete. Want to go to MLG? - well SOE better be prepared to pay for 100 plane tickets cause no where are you going to find an outfit of 50 wanting to pay their own way.
2) by having some kind of "ladder" system in game, it will only encourage stat whoring. What fair criteria can they use? kills = large outfits and outfits that are large. caps = outfits that are large and can play a lot more than the smaller outfits. KDR = stat whores. I dont see a system they can use IN GAME to make this work. The only system I can see making this work is to allow teams to schedule events outside the world game and compete for Wins and Loses without other factors interfering. If thats the case, and its scalable (lower than 50v50) then maybe it will work, but then all the in world players will be ticked off.

Ladders will be like a league.

A v B = Winner get 3 Points. Im sure it wont have other stats like k/d kills ect.

[Rahabib]

Its happening so i suggest people embrace it.

As for Sizes, They have todo 12v12. Its a must. agreed. I would love to see an infantry only ladder/league.

[NewSith]

2) by having some kind of "ladder" system in game, it will only encourage stat whoring. What fair criteria can they use? kills = large outfits and outfits that are large. caps = outfits that are large and can play a lot more than the smaller outfits. KDR = stat whores. I dont see a system they can use IN GAME to make this work. The only system I can see making this work is to allow teams to schedule events outside the world game and compete for Wins and Loses without other factors interfering. If thats the case, and its scalable (lower than 50v50) then maybe it will work, but then all the in world players will be ticked off.

XP if you mean the actual game part, not the competitive.

I had a simple idea mentioned on the official forum - in short, the largest outfit on the server gets a score multiplier of x1.0. The smaller outfits get higher multiplier based on how many times smaller they are.


(Say Outfit X is the biggest, Outfit Y is 3 times smaller. Outfit X gets x1.0, Outfit Y gets x3.0)

[Rahabib]

Ladders will be like a league.

A v B = Winner get 3 Points. Im sure it wont have other stats like k/d kills ect.
yea. its the whole "in game" part they mentioned. I hope its instanced battles.

[Rahabib]

XP.

I had a simple idea mentioned on the official forum - in short, the largest outfit on the server gets a score multiplier of x1.0. The smaller outfits get higher multiplier based on how many times smaller they are.


(Say Outfit X is the biggest, Outfit Y is 3 times smaller. Outfit X gets x1.0, Outfit Y gets x3.0)

xp can be exploited very easily as well. artificially inflating based on size doesnt make it any fairer.

[Dragonskin]

As someone who got their start playing competitively in Tribes before eSports took off I'm excited at the proposition of competing in PlanetSide 2. Though, I will likely take a back seat in actual competition itself there was nothing like listening to a Tribes match back in the day to get the adrenaline pumping.

Have an open mind and quit acting like this is a doomed prospect from the start. None of you know that, you can guess just like anyone else but you have no clue if this will work or not.

I like the publicity that MLG brings Planetside 2, but MLG games are usually brought up to MLG as games that can be competive that people want to view already. You don't try to make games for MLG because it has a good chance of failing. Guild Wars 2 set out to be an Esport. We had a few youtube channels dedicated to promoting it as an Esport. Guild Wars 2 is still not an Esport.. despite developers and community trying to push it there.

I don't think SOE can force themselves into the spot light. It just has to organically happen from the playerbase that enjoys playing the game. I personally don't see Planetside 2 getting there. The game isn't balanced enough with competition in mind to me. Who knows though.... I guess it could happen if SOE pumps a lot of development into MLG specific maps, loadouts and balances everything separate from the core game. That's all time I wish they could focus on the core game that desperately needs the attention. Maybe a year down the road then they could realistically try to develope for MLG when they have the core game solid.. meta game, optimization, base redesigns and map layouts.

[DirtyBird]

I agree with the Tribes trip back in time Hamma.
Surprising how well that was set-up to allow casting of matches so long ago and how popular is was, albeit within a very small community.

So like Tribes I assume this will also allow vehicles to be showcased as part of the competition.
Or when they say "specific sets of weapons" will be allowed does that mean no air or land vehicles?

[Blynd]

The weapon restriction is obvious. In matches your limited to xyz weapons maybe in one series of matces it all the basic kityou get when your a lowly br1 you get certs to improve them but you can only use those weapons. I think it could be very interesting as we have seen receently with the smg and shotguns that they seem to down tune older weapons to make the new FOTM sell on the shop. O if they take those out or the equation then its better balanced as a match and let's face it it would be interesting to see soe of the epeen stat whores who go in for this how they actually fair with no ability to farm kills etc cause your fighting on a level pop not an imbalanced one as you see on most servers.

[Hamma]

By the way I totally agree with games that have attempted to make themselves eSports and failed.. there are many good examples of that out there. Hopefully this isn't another but there's no way to know. On the bright side, they are working directly with people who KNOW competition in gaming so that has to count for something.

[Bunk]

shit idea, shit concept.

goodbye

[Mox]

By the way I totally agree with games that have attempted to make themselves eSports and failed.. there are many good examples of that out there. Hopefully this isn't another but there's no way to know. On the bright side, they are working directly with people who KNOW competition in gaming so that has to count for something.
Well i cant say for sure that ps2 will fail as esport.
But they are at least seven times more reasons why this game will fail than it will succeed as esport.

1. Ps2 isnt made for esports
2. Ps2 is a huge lag festival
3. Ps2 has a totaly different player base
4. Ps2 isnt twitchy enough
5. Ps2 is already too old
6. Ps2 isnt mainstream enough
7. Ps2 dont get enough love from the devs anymore (it seems 90% of the team is already working for eq next)

[MurderBunneh]

This just added an "end game" element I am excited.

[Sonny]

There are two things I worry about most.

1) its going to only cater to large outfits (ala 50v50). this will restrict it to only a few teams. Not only that how are you going to get 50 people to want to compete often enough to make this viable? So your outfit will need probably at least 75 people. Good luck starting up a new outfit to compete. Want to go to MLG? - well SOE better be prepared to pay for 100 plane tickets cause no where are you going to find an outfit of 50 wanting to pay their own way.

I thought I heard that there would be 'weight divisions' of outfit sizes. i.e. small outfits could play against eachother 12 v 12 (or even smaller) while only large outfits could play 48 v 48. Can anyone confirm/deny either way?

[Dragonskin]

Well i cant say for sure that ps2 will fail as esport.
But they are at least seven times more reasons why this game will fail than it will succeed as esport.

1. Ps2 isnt made for esports
2. Ps2 is a huge lag festival
3. Ps2 has a totaly different player base
4. Ps2 isnt twitchy enough
5. Ps2 is already too old
6. Ps2 isnt mainstream enough
7. Ps2 dont get enough love from the devs anymore (it seems 90% of the team is already working for eq next)

1. Games typically made for Esports seem to fail anyway
2. This is a legit concern
3. This isn't exactly true anymore. Most of the players are from other games. There is even a competitive outfit that came to Waterson on TR side called NCU that has members that do play in MLG events already.
4. Not sure what you mean exactly. Smaller maps could generate more twichty moments, but it's no less twitchy than Halo in my opinion.
5. Age doesn't really matter as long as there is a demand for the content.
6. This is more tied to 5 and I don't think the demand is there for this game because other games fill the small scale competition and I just don't think large scale will be as popular.
7. I don't think this is true. The patches are just as bad now as they were in beta about breaking things and introducing new bugs. GU04 did a lot of balancing and we will be getting a new continent in a month or so. New weapons, new vehicles coming, updated flash. I don't really see the lack of development from SOE. It's just never as fast as we would want.

[Climhazzard]

When your primary part of the game is playing in the equivilent of instanced arenas, you relinquish your right to have an opinion on anything on the main game.

The last I heard, participation in the tournaments requires participation in the main game.

im no physic,but momma didn't raise no fool!

It's spelled "psychic". :p

(Say Outfit X is the biggest, Outfit Y is 3 times smaller. Outfit X gets x1.0, Outfit Y gets x3.0)

But how do you reliably judge an outfit's size? You can't really use the total number of members, because a lot of those members maybe be inactive.

[KodanBlack]

Maybe they're going to actually optimize the game?

I'm damn sure that the competitors would be really pissed to play PS2 at consistently under 60 fps. If they want to play with the big boys, they're going to have to update the performance to be commensurate with other FPS games.

[Assist]

But how do you reliably judge an outfit's size? You can't really use the total number of members, because a lot of those members maybe be inactive.

For the in-game out of competition event points I'd assume they do some sort of contribution system, rather than a system that directly correlates winning/losing to a specific outfit. Planetside2 servers are too full of random people to give gains to only a certain outfit at a base fight.

I'm no math guru but it's not too hard to come up with a system that gives contribution based on faction population ratio for attackers/defenders, outfit members for each faction, objectives accomplished during fights(kills, gens, heals, etc). The only hard part would be making sure all these stats are tracked, but it seems like they're ahead of the ball on that front in PS2. I think one thing that needs to be done is changing how defense rewards points.
I think a dynamic system like this should be in place already, for everything, but for some reason SoE hasn't gone that route. I find it annoying(to say the least) that Zurvan is worth the same amount XP wise as Saurva, even though Saurva is 1000x easier to take since it's never really defended (on Waterson). This is going off on a tangent so I'll stop now ;P

[VaderShake]

I can't even read the phrase "eSports" without thinking it's some sort of porn fetish....

But I guess I see porn fetishes in most things......so...err...it's probably just me...I guess.....well..ok back to work I go.

[Sirisian]

maps in the game separate from the world with win conditions for spectator esports.
I'll say this again. Anything that detracts from the core continent battles will inevitably hurt the game. We saw this in PS1 with the cave system; a separate instance from the continents that attempted to restrict the trinity of land, air, and infantry.

eSports will have specific sets of weapons available for even playing field.
I'm interested as to what this means. I wonder if the devs realize that their asymmetrical balancing actually doesn't work for an FPS. If they did I'm surprised they don't take what they learned and apply it back to the core game.

Also I hate the use of "it's wasted development time" when talking about things, but this honestly adds nothing to the game. It's like they're making a whole separate game with their own rules to make this work.

[RaTzo]

PS2 has SEVERE performance problems, this alone kill it as an eSport game. No one is going to compete knowing that the game could drop to 17FPS at any moment while the other player may have double that.

PS2 has unpredictable rendering issues. You cannot be sure if there is an enemy around an area or not because he may or may not actually render. This will also damage any hope that PS2 will ever be a successful eSport game.

PS2 is a large scale never ending war. There is no "finish line" for an eSport team to get to. There is no "win" and therefore there is no real drama. No decisive moment in a match. Everything can always be countered in another way. Loose the Bio Lab? Cut it off... whatever we all know there are a million ways to advance in PS2 but in an eSport someone has to win or there is no sport.

PS2 is unfinished. The meta game, the balance, the performance, the weapons, and even the content are ALL in a period of DEVELOPMENT. If PS2 were to become an eSport today, the winners today would be playing a COMPLETELY different game than the winners in 6 months. Assuming PS2 could even last that long as an eSport.

As much as I love the game - which admittedly has diminished with new "balance" measures and the continual downward spiral in performance from bad to completely unplayable - it is not an eSport. The focus SOE is putting on this will only cost them money, and in the end hurt the actual game.

[NewSith]

But how do you reliably judge an outfit's size? You can't really use the total number of members, because a lot of those members maybe be inactive.

That's the exact point. This will force people to keep their outfit active instead of just inviting everyone and their dog.

[bpostal]

...instead of just inviting everyone and their dog.

To be fair...

http://imageshack.us/a/img815/7972/23mer.jpg

[Synnoc]

I'm no math guru but it's not too hard to come up with a system that gives contribution based on faction population ratio for attackers/defenders, outfit members for each faction, objectives accomplished during fights(kills, gens, heals, etc).

I think this is exactly where the problem will lie. I don't know about eSports in general, but my gut feeling is that ladder points are going to be most efficiently earned by actions contrary to the spirit of the metagame. Points gained for defense may be deemed "not worth the time", for example, as well as helping teammates not in the outfit. In any points system of sufficient complexity, there is usually an optimal path, and that optimal path is probably going to involve maximizing kills and facility captures.

[kidriot]

We don't know how it's going to work out and until they hammer out more specifics I'm optimistic about the outcome.

[SwiftRanger]

Does this require development time? Yes. Has it yet? Doesn't appear so, or we would have seen some of this stuff showcased yesterday. This is on the roadmap (which is broken here at work so I can't see what month) so it's been part of development planning for some time.
I heard somewhere that on March 31st we will already see the first matches? It must have been in development already then. Right?

Are we surprised this is coming? Really? You shouldn't be. If you paid any attention to UES in January you would know this partnership was announced. This partnership consists of a variety of different things including collaboration between SOE and MLG to develop an eSport in PlanetSide 2. This isn't really new information stop acting like it would all of a sudden disappear. This partnership works both ways PlanetSide 2 is getting MASSIVE promotion on MLG's various channels and websites. This is benefiting all of us, because it's causing the community to grow. PlanetSide 2 is also getting prominent location at the MLG events this year - just inside the main entrance this past weekend.

Remember guys, Fans of eSport are not always competitors in eSport. We had tons of older folks who started playing the game this past weekend. Fathers and Sons trying out the game and having a good time. Just because SOE is using MLG to promote the game doesn't mean 0MGWTFBBQ0202 #1 COD PLAYER is the ONLY demographic in eSports. Smarten up.

People enjoy eSports because they like watching competition. They aren't all elite player asshats. Just like people who watch football all ages and races watch because they enjoy competition.
True, it's on the road map, the MLG deal has already been announced before. While more promotion for PS2 is always good, the game is in no state to welcome new players (or even returning players). It's riddled with (performance) bugs, patches which often break as much as they fix, and a new player experience that would haunt most folks away. A proper metagame for people who don't ditch the game after the first hour still isn't implemented, it barely goes beyond PS1 which got boring fast for the same reasons, even with lattice/LLU and continent locking. You might say the latter features are coming back in some form but that's actually the big problem: those returning features aren't the solution, PS1 still failed because SOE didn't went further than that and I really want to see PS2 survive until they truly can go beyond what we all already know.

Is this going to take away from the massive game we all know and love? Of course not, what is wrong with you? PlanetSide 2 at it's core is still an MMOFPS. It will remain a massive online shooter until the day it's gone. eSports will be built ON TOP of this using the game itself, if you don't want anything to do with it you won't have to.
I heard matches will be on Sunday evenings, every week. Those are the busiest times of PS2 I reckon. To have important outfits away on tournament duties then will have its effects on the main game.

Will this fail and ruin the game or community? Who knows, nobody here can even pretend to know that. Can you guess? Sure. But you really have no clue at all.
Of course, we'll need to see it in action first and some form of outfit competition is good but I think most people would have preferred that it stayed in the main game, not on some instanced smaller maps which have no connection to the persistent game world.

This goes against the stuff which SOE has been proposing during the reveal of the game early on: to make PS2 more into an EVE-like experience. A continuous big world where outfits would gain more power and customization options. Gaining ranks on a ladder is something a normal multiplayer FPS would offer, it doesn't make much sense lore-wise either. I expected something more original from a company which boasts it is innovating in the online FPS space.

As it is now I fear we'll have to wait another year for those real innovations. In the meantime SOE is just copy/pasting recognisable features from other major online FPS titles into PS2. That's not always a bad thing but it's the easiest thing to do and it's only going to strengthen the complaints that the "massive" feel of the game is being downgraded.

Sorry to come across as a ranting person but I often can't understand what SOE is up to, despite that they are communicating so much. Give me less of this MLG-stuff and more of this ( more of this ) , with some kind of ETA/explanation perhaps? They're not only losing players because their patching process has failed us so often in the last few months...

[ghnurbles]

I think this is exactly where the problem will lie. I don't know about eSports in general, but my gut feeling is that ladder points are going to be most efficiently earned by actions contrary to the spirit of the metagame. Points gained for defense may be deemed "not worth the time", for example, as well as helping teammates not in the outfit. In any points system of sufficient complexity, there is usually an optimal path, and that optimal path is probably going to involve maximizing kills and facility captures.

This coming Game Update has separation of experience and score, I suspect kills might not come into the score aspect at all.

[Hamma]

I heard somewhere that on March 31st we will already see the first matches? It must have been in development already then. Right?

You heard wrong - that's some kind of MLG show about PlanetSide 2.

I heard matches will be on Sunday evenings, every week. Those are the busiest times of PS2 I reckon. To have important outfits away on tournament duties then will have its effects on the main game.

Where are you hearing these things?