Balance issue in PlanetSide 2 -- VS to NC? VS is suck

[vsnctr]

With Nanoweave Armor 4, 6 bullets of pandora, shoot from back, cannot kill a NC; he turned around, 2 bullets killed me. He lost only half of his health. What's the horrible experience.
No matter using pandora/serpent, so hard to kill NC on one by one. What can I do?

I'm thinking to quit vs and the game.

[bpostal]

You could always try out TR or the NC to see what's what.
Also, if he's using one of the shotguns keep in mind that they're lethal as hell.

[maradine]

I haven't played since the last hotfix, but I was still happily shotgunning NC infantry of all sorts last week. I humbly submit you have a bug on your hands - best report it.

[Mordelicius]

With Nanoweave Armor 4, 6 bullets of pandora, shoot from back, cannot kill a NC; he turned around, 2 bullets killed me. He lost only half of his health. What's the horrible experience.
No matter using pandora/serpent, so hard to kill NC on one by one. What can I do?

I'm thinking to quit vs and the game.

LOL. VS is the only faction that can get 20%-25% population, hold the Crown comfortable and still own 1/3 of the land mass.

With the north Warpgate and the Prowler nerf, they regularly get 35% population and 50%-60% land mass ownership at Waterson.

Heck they capped Waterson Indar like nothing right after getting the N warpgate. Reason? They own the line-of-sight war. They got high accuracy and still get the high rate of fire of TR.

[Silent Thunder]

Sounds more like the current server lag issues got you to be honest. Same way I can kill someone, then die half a second later to their gunfire.

[Snydenthur]

With Nanoweave Armor 4, 6 bullets of pandora, shoot from back, cannot kill a NC; he turned around, 2 bullets killed me. He lost only half of his health. What's the horrible experience.
No matter using pandora/serpent, so hard to kill NC on one by one. What can I do?

I'm thinking to quit vs and the game.

Sounds like lag. There has been a lot of "one shot kills" recently. With that I mean that you only see few shots and die, but the enemy shot more on his screen. I'm vs too and while nc is a bit harder to fight than tr, I don't see a balancing issue.

[camycamera]

no, you both suck. TR ftw. :lol: :evil:

[Badjuju]

LOL. VS is the only faction that can get 20%-25% population, hold the Crown comfortable and still own 1/3 of the land mass.

With the north Warpgate and the Prowler nerf, they regularly get 35% population and 50%-60% land mass ownership at Waterson.

Heck they capped Waterson Indar like nothing right after getting the N warpgate. Reason? They own the line-of-sight war. They got high accuracy and still get the high rate of fire of TR.

While what he is experience looks to be lag or a bug, your statement is false and/or miss leading across the board.

1. If you have the North warp gate it is incredibly easy to hold the entire half of the map, or at least quickly recover it due to map design. It has been this way for every faction that has had it since beta.

2. VS pop on Waterson has remained low since patch (aside from late night) with NC and TR trading the highest pop back and fourth depending on day/ time of day.

3. On Mattherson VS has a higher population and does not have the same successful as Waterson VS in taking territory/per population. VS on Waterson have the best faction coordination I have seen of any empire on any server. They have allot of smaller outfits, but those outfits work together very well. You can get a good sense of this just by watching command chat which on other servers/factions is fairly dead or filled with smart ass ramarks basically saying "no do it yourself" to requests.

Please don't think I am insinuating anything bad about Mattherson VS. There are allot of good outfits there who do work together. Waterson VS just seem to do so a little more and Mattherson also houses some very tough competing outfits on NC and TR.

And again, N warp gate is the best warp gate to defend your territory from. Nonstop flowing tanks in the desert.

4. TR has more higher ROF weapons than VS with other stats being comparable depending on ROF. Not only that but TR typically have higher ammo pools which is big for many weapons, particularly CQC weapons.

VS do not the super accurate weapons everyone makes them out to be. People insinuate that their weapons are far more accurate than the other factions and it just isnt the case at all. Just take a look at the stat sheets and fire them for yourself.

ROF is not the end all either for every situation. It is great in CQC but once you get to med-long ranges you want slower firing weapons with higher damage. If you compare the TMG-50 to the Ursa and Flare, the TMG-50 is more accurate. Main reason is that the side to side recoil is less while COF is the same. This is important because you cannot counter two directional recoil like you can one directional recoil or upwards recoil, and all three have two directional recoil. So basically it bounces around less.

The TMG-50 also has a higher minimum damage making it a superior ranged LMG as bullet drop is so minimal and one bullet will often make the difference in ranged encounters. The only other thing you would consider is velocity (Ursa @640 > TMG-50 @615 > Flare @600). They all have higher velocities so I personally don't have an issue interchanging between them. The Ursa does get a decent bump but it also has a the lowest ROF. So it depends if you are having trouble hitting your target and want to trade DPS for more velocity.

TR and VS have very comparable weapons with each having their own trade offs. Biggest being TR with more ammo and often higher ROF and vs having faster reload times (typically). Keep in mind that accuracy is almost always less with higher ROF do to kick with each bullet, which is your typical trade off for increased ROF unless there is significantly less bullet damage.

I would argue that TR has the best carbine, and assault rifle simply because they are so similar aside from the larger TR ammo pool, allowing you to drop more people in one clip (of course vs has faster reload, but stopping to reload can kill). They both have a decent mix of LMGs. Overall TR and VS are pretty balanced IMO.

I would suspect adjustments to the SAW because it is absolutely bad ass, but at the same time it fits the NC well. Devs know more than us with all the data so well wait and see.

[Artimus]

I love how people threaten to quit this game like it's a sacred oath or something... Try certing your guns more to increase damage output.. I don't play VS but from what I have seen accuracy is not so much of an issue for you guys.

[Koadster]

Sounds like Desync issues or general server lag. Its been getting really bad these days.

[SternLX]

I just went 45/25 in a 3 hour session vs TR. I'm not having any problems killin as VS no matter if it's TR or NC.

My K/D is all screwed up however. Took me forever to decide that playing strictly a support role(Repin and Healin!) was not good for my over all game health. /sarcasm

[almalino]

Cannot resist.

Goodby!

As an NC I do not need weak VS players. It is to boring to kill enemy who cannot kill me from the back with 6 bullets :)

[Rothnang]

NC easily has some of the most overpowered weapons in the game.

Scattermaxes are pretty much unbeatable in a ton of environments, and it's just not like there is any place where a longer range MAX unit really shines. The devs in this game weight range way too heavily in a weapons stats. Any weapon that is expressly short range is absolutely insanely overpowered in this game, because it's trivial to get to cover and survive against long range weapons, but against the super short range ones you die before you can even react.

The Airhammer is absolutely insane. It's a oneshot against any infantry unit in a cone from easily 20 meters away. It also kills fighters and Liberators faster than any other fighter weapon, including rocket pods. Once again this whole "But it has low range" excuse is being pulled to justify this thing, but when does an ESF ever have trouble getting in range of something? What a joke.

Shotguns are overpowered in general in Planetside 2, because there is just no real downside to them. At close range you always win, and at long range it's pretty easy to get away, even when you're completely exposed you can just bunnyhop to cover without much of a problem. NC just happen to have Shotguns on their vehicles, which gives them the ability to abuse the hell out of the dev's absurd short range bias on MAXes and Fighters as well.

With the next patch however NC is just going to become unstoppable. Camera guided missiles as a faction specific item is just going to be idiotic. In fact, they would be idiotic even if they were universal, but then at least they would ruin the game for everyone equally. Being able to fire at vehicles without needing a line of sight is basically going to allow infantry to hang out in the places where vehicles can't get them while still firing at vehicles that are in the places where they are supposed to fight. I just see no way that that won't completely change the way the game works in favor of one singular faction, while screwing over everyone else.

[Gatekeeper]

Can't really comment on the Airhammer, just due to lack of direct experience with it, but other than that I 100% agree with Rothnang.

I'm all for different factions having unique strengths, but the ScatterMAX is clearly just far more useful than the VS or TR alternatives. It doesn't matter what theoretical downsides it has - what counts is that it gives them a powerful advantage that the other factions simply can't match.

And honestly it seems very likely that the Phoenix will be another one. Of all the PS1 weapons and features they could bring into PS2, that was one of the few I really hoped they would just quietly forget.

[Assist]

LOL. VS is the only faction that can get 20%-25% population, hold the Crown comfortable and still own 1/3 of the land mass.

With the north Warpgate and the Prowler nerf, they regularly get 35% population and 50%-60% land mass ownership at Waterson.

Heck they capped Waterson Indar like nothing right after getting the N warpgate. Reason? They own the line-of-sight war. They got high accuracy and still get the high rate of fire of TR.

VS hasn't had 35% population since early December. We haven't broke 30% population in nearly 2 months, even with the mergers. Our average the past week is 27%.

Also, VS lose on open ground infantry combat. Range is a benefit ONLY to the Saron, which less and less Magriders use. Other than that, range is the biggest penalty to the VS faction because of the damage drop off.
You are right though, we have 50-60% land mass ownership on Indar Waterson. Meanwhile we have 0 on Amerish and Esamir. Oh, and we have the North warpgate which is designed to have 50% land mass ownership on Indar.

[Satanam]

Is there anyone complaining that VS are weak infantry? I mean, are we talking about PlanetSide 2? There's something wrong here and I can't understand what.

[VaderShake]

Awe....VS got their warpgate moved and now they can't dominate...awe....poor babies...

[Falcon_br]

VS hasn't had 35% population since early December. We haven't broke 30% population in nearly 2 months, even with the mergers. Our average the past week is 27%.

Also, VS lose on open ground infantry combat. Range is a benefit ONLY to the Saron, which less and less Magriders use. Other than that, range is the biggest penalty to the VS faction because of the damage drop off.
You are right though, we have 50-60% land mass ownership on Indar Waterson. Meanwhile we have 0 on Amerish and Esamir. Oh, and we have the North warpgate which is designed to have 50% land mass ownership on Indar.

Guys, you got indar 12 hours since the last WG rotation!
We had to combine forces with the NC to take the control away from you, and it wasn´t easy!
NC tryed for more them a month to control Indar, they never did. The TR almost got the control of it three times, every time we gated the NC, those damn VS players cut out the TR supply from the WG and the campaign was over. Locking the NC inside the gate is easy, but the VS players knows how to break a siege! With magriders!

[Rothnang]

It has nothing to do with VS specifically, it's just about how the various mechanics balance out.

The reality in PS2 is simply this: Shotguns are overpowered, and the NC gets the most shotguns.


The problem with shotguns is simply that they are unbeatable at close range in a game where even long range weapons are not anywhere near as lethal at long range. Range is a stat that is severely overtaxed in an items stat budget.

When you engage someone who's carrying a shotgun at long range what happens? They just bunnyhop into cover. Sure you might take off their shield, maybe even scratch their health, but the likelihood of them actually going down is pretty low because the TTK in long range fights is extremely long, even when you are using long range weapons.

What happens when the guy with a shotgun catches you at short range though? You die in 1-2 hits, he wins easily.

Longer range on weapons is pretty much only an advantage in your mind. You feel like you can get an edge by being able to reach out and hit people at longer range, but in reality, the vast majority of infantry on infantry kills in this game happen at 5-20 meters, where a shotgun dominates everything else. Long range weapons offer some suppression by forcing enemies into cover, but that doesn't give you kills, and sooner or later you have to go in close, especially when most of the decisive infantry battles take place inside of facilities like techplants and biolabs where long range is not really a factor anyways.


There is just an extreme bias toward short range weapons in the way that the devs balance this game, and the NC are huge benefactors of that because they can put shotguns on MAXes and Fighters. They can even put shotguns on their tank, which hilariously enough would probably be the best possible weapon for shooting down incoming Phoenixes, if the NC had to actually ever deal with those. :rolleyes:




Also, the Saron is a piece of crap now. It has a firing delay which makes it very difficult to hit with that thing from a moving tank. It's supposed to be a Laser/Railgun, but the projectile speed has been nerfed to the point where Prowler and Vanguards fire tank shells that move more quickly than its energy beam. (The tooltip says laser, but apparently the HRB stands for Heavy Rail Beam, which would indicate some type of magnetically accelerated particle weapon, either way realistically they would have no travel time at all that is perceptible to a human)

I really hope the Saron gets an overhaul and maybe will work similarly to the new VS heavy weapon, and be more useful again. Right now its just really inadequate considering how incredibly narrow its purpose is. Once again, the weapon that absolutely dominates in the secondary tank gun category is a short range gun, which does absolutely insane damage, the Vulcan.

The only reason why the Enforcer Modified doesn't rank very high as far as tank weapons are concerned is because its one of the faction specific anti-infantry guns, which are generally never used by tanks at all.

[Saintlycow]

LOL. VS is the only faction that can get 20%-25% population, hold the Crown comfortable and still own 1/3 of the land mass.

With the north Warpgate and the Prowler nerf, they regularly get 35% population and 50%-60% land mass ownership at Waterson.

Heck they capped Waterson Indar like nothing right after getting the N warpgate. Reason? They own the line-of-sight war. They got high accuracy and still get the high rate of fire of TR.

Personally, I'd like to think that's because the VS got good when we used to suck, and we are better coordinated. :lol:

[vsnctr]

Cannot resist.

Goodby!

As an NC I do not need weak VS players. It is to boring to kill enemy who cannot kill me from the back with 6 bullets :)

I have played this game for a while and overall killed NC more than TR.
I just feel NC is harder to be killed recently somehow. And the 6 bullets was right on that guy's body, close distant. What you can say, either a bug, or NC owns some advantage.
Try VS first, and then say 'I'm hero'.

[NotTheMomma]

Not going to read the entire thread, but you shouldn't make any hasty decisions if this is based on the dice-roll festival that the game was over the weekend. Hold off until some of these bugs and performance issues improve (should be soon).

[basti]

With Nanoweave Armor 4, 6 bullets of pandora, shoot from back, cannot kill a NC; he turned around, 2 bullets killed me. He lost only half of his health. What's the horrible experience.
No matter using pandora/serpent, so hard to kill NC on one by one. What can I do?

I'm thinking to quit vs and the game.


In order to do damage you also need to actually hit your target...

[JesNC]

It has nothing to do with VS specifically, it's just about how the various mechanics balance out.

The reality in PS2 is simply this: Shotguns are overpowered, and the NC gets the most shotguns.

....

The only reason why the Enforcer Modified doesn't rank very high as far as tank weapons are concerned is because its one of the faction specific anti-infantry guns, which are generally never used by tanks at all.

What? I don't even....

Are you SERIOUSLY complaining about the Jackhammer here? The single most useless (shot)gun in the game? Or is this some kind of hidden nerf Scatmax post?
When short range weapons are so OP why is everyone complaining about the Gauss SAW, the arguably longest range LMG in the game? I'm not saying that pump-action shotguns (and only those) aren't over the top, but attributing the shortcomings of a single weapon family solely to one empire because "Hurr durr, they get more of them" and basing an entire game balance argument around this issue is quite ridiculous.

The AH is nice for trolling ESF and infantry, but in the end the rotary is superior. And the C85 Modified is never used because it sucks, period. The Kobalt is simply better in every way.


In reality, this is all about perception. The result of the flinch change is that facing NC isn't a lopsided fight anymore. This, of course, is unsettling for some TR/VS players who used to faceroll NC on every occassion and now run straight to the forums to cry nerf.

[Rothnang]

The fact that the Jackhammer is considered underpowered is mostly because all the other shotguns are overpowered. Once again, it has nothing to do with the NC at all, they just happen to get the benefit of overpowered short range weapons on MAXes and ESFs.

[Assist]

In order to do damage you also need to actually hit your target...

clearly you've never used the Liberator

also, just for the record since this was about Waterson somewhat - Primetime playtime(6:30 EST): 26% VS // 37% NC // 37% TR. Who cares about faction balance though! It's not like population is the deciding factor in the outcome of PS2!