Shotgunside 2

[Rolfski]

Is it just me or is everybody totally occupied with shotguns nowadays? In every indoor battle shotguns seem to rule the day and the latest pump-action additions (which btw was totally down-voted on the road map) only seem to have made matters worse.

If I die in CQB battles like towers, it's almost exclusively now to SMG's (infiltrator) or shotguns (other classes).

And with the upcoming release of the second pump-action series it seems like the devs have gone way overboard with this weapon class that few people wanted in the first place.
Picking a primary weapon for my HA will give me as many shotguns to choose from as LMG's which is insane tbh. I wish the devs would have focused on other primary weapons instead or even better, expansion slots for the current arsenal.

[Hamma]

Surprisingly I haven't been killed by many shotguns on Waterson TR.

[Assist]

Surprisingly I haven't been killed by many shotguns on Waterson TR.

Well, I did get a Mosquito kill with my pump shotgun yesterday. Now that I know it's possible I'll be keeping an eye on the sky again :P

I use shotguns a lot. Light Assault + Shotgun is just a ton of fun right now. I started using the auto-shotty with the jump towers around Amp Stations and since that time I find myself going to battles where I can use the shotgun. I think I'm somewhere around the 5000 kill range between the Pandora, Nova, and Phobos. I do agree though, Waterson tends to not use many shotguns compared to other servers. There's other quirks like this as well, like on Connery it seems everyone and their mother uses underbarrel grenade launchers where on Waterson I hardly see it.


It's amazing the difference between 20 FPS and 60 FPS with the shotguns though, hope the performance stuff gets worked out because it completely changes the game for me.

[wasdie]

I've been using the Claw lately and it's ridiculously OP. If they don't nerf the shotguns, in about 2-3 months they will be the only weapons used for the majority of infantry combat. You can quote me on that. That's how ridiculously OP these things are.

I could kill 3 people easily before having to reload. That's just too easy.

I feel that if I'm not using it, I'm actually at a major disadvantage in close quarters combat. I did like how I was finally able to counter the spam of the Nighthawk. That thing has been annoying me for about 3 weeks.

People say the range is the most limiting factor, but because of how difficult it is to control the recoil on a lot of NC guns, I've gotten really good at closing the gap and reducing the range I engage enemies in. Maybe the constant 20-30 fps I get in medium sized battles make it hard for me to fight at range. Because I'm always at close range against my enemy, the shotgun is the only weapon that makes sense anymore.

[Snydenthur]

I don't really get how so many people have problems with shotguns. I use pump action shotgun 24/7. Yes, indoors and outdoors. There are so many times when I die close range, usually because someone is out of the 0-5m sweetspot. I don't see much shotguns myself.

Stay out of the 0-5m shotgun distance and you're better equipped to win. Shotguns are good around 5-10m, but not overpowering. After 10m, you'll have to get lucky with the pellets to get a kill, so that's the range where other weapons are starting to overpower the shotgun completely. Even indoors there are a lot of situations where the shotgun isn't the best weapon. Usually I tend to bait the enemy to come closer and 99% of the time they take that bait and I get the kill. Thinking before you act gets you a long way in this game.

[Rolfski]

Surprisingly I haven't been killed by many shotguns on Waterson TR.

On Miller, when I get killed it's most of the time by BR 40+ guys from other outfits. These use all shotguns mostly.

[VaderShake]

I think the new wave of shot gun users seem more dominating because they simply were not there in close quateres before. Now I run around a corner withing 15 feet of a guy and he drops me with a shotty I get it....before when few people were using shtty's it was a more even fight. I guess the thing to keep in mind is make sure you have the right tool for the job before you run into close quarters or change your approach and use more cover. It is not that much different than running into a MAX in a tight space.

[Ketadine]

I'm also seeing a lot of shotguns on the wrong side of the barrel on Woodman. The NC seem to favor the Claw while the VS favor the Pandora from what I've experienced as a TR. It's very annoying to get killed in one shot. It seems the higher the BR, the higher the chance you will use a shotgun.

I think the shotguns should be nerfed a bit in term of distance. At their current state, the shotguns, especially the automatic ones, tear through anything within 10 meters.

[Tenhi]

Well the CQC carbines/ARs are actually a good match against shotguns in CQC. The TTK on things like the Serpent/VX6-7/HV-45 is so low that you can kill the shotty guy if he misses once... and we have many people that miss with their shotguns on Miller^^

Then again we have many many high BR players that will ruin your day in CQC if you dont bring your own shotgun :(

Edit: The only thing that I think is problematic is how good the pumpguns are at ranges were they arent supposed to be good. The normal shotguns suck after something like 7-10m... the pumpguns kill me quite often with two shots at that range... its like they have a lower pellet spread (and the fact that they shoot more pellets doesnt help either...).

[Empra]

Surprisingly I haven't been killed by many shotguns on Waterson TR.

thats because TR have best shotguns :P

OT:I get killed a lot by shotguns as, on Miller at least, TR use a lot of shotguns, VS not so much but still a decent amount, where as I don't see many in NC because we just roll scattermax.

So technically I suppose NC have best shotguns but the normal inf shotguns don't seem as good.

I want to love the Jackhammer there is just something missing.

I kinda agree with OP, NC Jackhammer doesn't seem special at all compared to other shotguns and when claw came out who wants JH? Shotty obviously dominates at close quarters but they can be irritating when getting griefed by one and having to roll a max to take him out, as he is just flying on top of the tower and if I fly up there he has a shotty so... :/

You can spam them while flying pretty accurately as well.

I wouldnt nerfbat them them or anything... Possibly nerf accuracy while flying to be in line with carbine accuracy while flying or smg. Harder to hit with in air imo without laser etc. TBH I'm probably just a lil butthurt from getting killed by them all the time too heh.

[Emperor Newt]

I use shotguns most of the time. In cqc exclusively.
There is just nothing that can come even close to the damage output they have. With the pump actions it has become ridiculous. One shot, one kill. The reload time between shots doesn't matter at all. And their high damage also makes them quiet effective at ranges other shotguns fail.
They are just too good to be true. I cannot advise anyone to buy anything shotgun beside the pump actions ones.

Another example where the "looks equal on paper" balancing by SOE fails.

Besides I still think that any kind of "one shot one kill" weapon is bad gamedesign. Always. Especially when it requires little skill to use them. But well, if they want to introduce more of it, I take it. Sooner or later it will completely ruin cqc for everybody. But until then we can embrace it while it lasts. And this time I won't be on the recieving end and won't repeat the mistake like not buying rocket pods because I thought it was "cheap".

[Tenhi]

thats because TR have best shotguns :P
<snip>

That was true pre GU3? I think. Now all the shotguns are carbon copies of each other. The only difference is that VS have no bulletdrop but slower bullet velocity.

Edit: I also just searched the spreadsheet. The pumpguns have the same pellet spread as the 6-Shot shotguns with 3. The 8-Shots have 3.5 and the Auto have 4. Thats the reason they are "good" outside the normal shotgun range... they have a low pellet spread but shoot 10 pellets per shot.

[CraazyCanuck]

I brought the Pandora out the last couple days because of the increased frequency of pump action I am encountering on Mattherson. But the 1 shot kill of the pump action, even with one rank short of max nano/shield/weave with shields on can be a bit frustrating.

Most frustrating of all is the non factor of their reload and the range advantage the pump seems to have over the Pandora. They should keep their dmg where it is but increase the reload time on them to compensate.

[CraazyCanuck]

Edit: I also just searched the spreadsheet. The pumpguns have the same pallet spread as the 6-Shot shotguns with 3. The 8-Shots have 3.5 and the Auto have 4. Thats the reason they are "good" outside the normal shotgun range... they have a low pallet spread but shoot 10 pallets per shot.

That would explain it.

[Babyfark McGeez]

♫ In the Year 2845... ♪ ♫...Where in the future there are shotguns in Planetside ♪ (*sing*)

[robocpf1]

I certainly see the shotguns, but from Mattherson VS perspective, I'm still getting killed by the SMGs most noticeably.

Or alternatively, not getting killed by the SMG guys that burn their entire magazine from too far away and then get gutted by my rifle.

[ShadowAquilaX]

Good or not good, OP or not, there's just too many guns in game atm. Leaving little to no room for expansion on that in the future.
I find it funny and sad that we've been teased about buggies, faction specific launchers (which should have been in game before the common pool ones imo) and so on. Instead SOE devs demonstrate how they don't really care what we say anyways, by adding more "make money items".
I some how doubt they plan on having this game running for a long time.

[Gatekeeper]

I don't have a shotgun myself, so I can't claim I'm commenting with any degree of authority - but I do die to them a lot, and they feel overpowered when you're on the receiving end.

TBH I don't think there's a huge balance problem (the new shotguns may need scaling back a little bit, but nothing drastic), but I do think that their TTK is so fast that it feels extremely frustrating to be on the wrong end of them - which is more to do with how low the general TTK is already than anything wrong with the shotguns in particular.

So yeah, I'd say either rebalance shotguns to be slightly worse CQB and slightly better at range (i.e. more versatile but less out and out powerful) or slightly increase TTK across the board.

[Rahabib]

I tried the uppercut but maybe it was the lag, but it seemed to not hit even at point blank range. I tried out slugs but good luck hitting anything moving with it. LA using it to glide around and fire you have to be gliding very close or it isnt very effective. Also, when you click to fire it seems like there is a half second delay to fire where as the other guns fire instantly. Personally, I think the carbines are better even in CQC - but again, it may have been the lag recently.

Also, I rarely see anyone use them myself (Connery).

[Gatekeeper]

I tried the uppercut but maybe it was the lag, but it seemed to not hit even at point blank range. I tried out slugs but good luck hitting anything moving with it. LA using it to glide around and fire you have to be gliding very close or it isnt very effective. Also, when you click to fire it seems like there is a half second delay to fire where as the other guns fire instantly. Personally, I think the carbines are better even in CQC - but again, it may have been the lag recently.

Also, I rarely see anyone use them myself (Connery).

I get killed by the Uppercut all the time, so I reckon it works just fine, most of the time :)

[BIGGByran]

I wish shotgun were never introduced into the game. They are OP within 10m... even tho I am in love with my Claw (pump action shotty). LA Shotty > NC Max. The sheer maneuverability of a LA is deadly with a shotty.

My server, I thought about this last night as I was playing in a biolab, is filled with Shotguns and SMGs.

[Simo]

How could a biolab not be filled with SMGs and shotguns? That is exactly the environment you should pull those weapons.

I think some people want to play the game with a 1 size fits all weapon. And that's fine. I used to be one of those people. But I've learned that I need to bring the best tool for the job. For travel, fighting in open spaces, really anything except indoor fighting I use anything other than a shotgun.

[Assist]

How could a biolab not be filled with SMGs and shotguns? That is exactly the environment you should pull those weapons.

I think some people want to play the game with a 1 size fits all weapon. And that's fine. I used to be one of those people. But I've learned that I need to bring the best tool for the job. For travel, fighting in open spaces, really anything except indoor fighting I use anything other than a shotgun.
Well said! I find this to be the case as well, the only issue I have is with LMG's. I think they do not stand out enough for what they should be, but this has more to do with TTK than anything imo.

[Snydenthur]

How could a biolab not be filled with SMGs and shotguns? That is exactly the environment you should pull those weapons.

I think some people want to play the game with a 1 size fits all weapon. And that's fine. I used to be one of those people. But I've learned that I need to bring the best tool for the job. For travel, fighting in open spaces, really anything except indoor fighting I use anything other than a shotgun.

And shotguns aren't really having such a big effect on playing with only one weapon all the time. Sniper rifles are the only weapons in game that aren't good at close range. Every other weapon is quite good. It depends a lot on the player skill. Good player with carbine has a big chance to beat a bad player with shotgun even at shotgun range. And while doing that, he can also take care of long range shooting. One could say that using that carbine would be easier than using a shotgun, since it has no drawbacks.

[Emperor Newt]

There is pretty nothing one can say to SMGs and shotguns being the best tools for the job. The problem is that any other tool pretty much sucks and even some of the working tools (like the non-pumpaction shotguns) now also often don't feel like they are viable choices anymore (or at least are inferior for a job they were build for).
It's not about being the best tool for the job, but the degree by which they outmatch anything else.

*edit*
I wonder how a carbine user would have a chance against a one shot one kill shotgun at shotgun range.
And good vs bad player comparisons are pretty much useless in the first place. Either it's same skill versus same skill or nothing.

[Falcon_br]

Everyone in my outfit that got the pump action shotgun, will never go back to the old ones.
If your fps it good, and you are good at aiming fast, they are the best!
0-5 m, if you aim correct, it is one shot kill, but fire twice just to be sure, with extended mags = 3-4 kills each reload.
Some people do not like the extended mags, because they increase the reload time, well, they are wrong, you don´t need to empty your shotgun to reload it, and in combat situation, those 2 extra bullets can kill a max if you hit all shots from behind.
The rate of fire is also good, it is almost the same as the semi auto shotgun when you need to consider the time you need to compensate the recoil.
The shotgun users in my outfit uses 0,50 and 0,70 mouse sensitivity, I use 0,27 and I think of increasing it to be more effective at CQC.

[Rbstr]

Having used the Phobos for a few days now I think the damage is reasonable but the pump guns simply fire too quickly and the extended mag lets them deal too much punishment before a reload.
Especially when you consider the semi-auto shotguns and how much less damage they do.
I mean...the pump-action great for me, I can get the first shot on the majority of players, and killing people outright makes to so much easier to take on multiple people, even if the TTK is limited.

Really, rather than point blank monster-damage guns, I'd much rather have tighter groupings of pellets with less overall damage potential. No more single shots on anything but an infil if you only catch body and don't have any miss. But give it some flexibility.

The pump manages range-flexibility simply from huge damage output...that makes it overpowered.

People that find the SMGs to be some kind of revelation indoors really must not have used any of the ARs/Carbines designed as short range guns...It's true they don't have the magazine depth, but guns like the VX-6 and HV-45 are pretty much just as good with adv. laser and have much greater ranged potential.

10 pallets per shot.

And, well, no wonder they're so OP if they're shooting these
http://www.packingserviceinc.com/uploads/media/Shipping-Pallets.jpg

[Snydenthur]

Really, rather than point blank monster-damage guns, I'd much rather have tighter groupings of pellets with less overall damage potential. No more single shots on anything but an infil if you only catch body and don't have any miss. But give it some flexibility.

But what would be the point of shotgun then? It would be the worst choice for every situation.

[moosepoop]

But what would be the point of shotgun then? It would be the worst choice for every situation.

it would be great.

in BF3 i would get all the possible attachments that would tighten the pellet spread. it increases skill ceiling while still allowing for some off aim.

[qbert2]

The biggest thing that makes these new CQB low TTK weapons annoying to me is the fact that enemies do not have collision. It seems to be a growing tactic to run through a group of enemies and mow a bunch of them down before you're taken out. It sucks the most in the fights were these weapons are most effective, indoor CQB fights with large groups of people. It's hard to kill the people who do this since they are clipping in and out of friendlies and therefor cause you grief if you fire at them. They really should turn on collision for enemies.

[Rbstr]

But what would be the point of shotgun then? It would be the worst choice for every situation.

You'd still have high single-shot damage and being choked down some would cover more ground more effectively. Have you used a BF3 shotgun...or even CS:S's pump? Get a little lucky and get some pellets to land on someone's face and it can be really mean from low-mid range.
Up close you need to aim a bit more but it still provides great run-and-gun burst damage with some wiggle room on aiming that makes use of fasts reflexes more than the rifle which requires more steady aim.

People used the shotguns in PS2 before the pump existed, without having insta-kill ability.

[moosepoop]

making shotguns longer range but lower damage is great.

BF3 did it in one of their big patches, and it made the shotgun a lot more versatile.


the most powerful shotgun in BF3 one hit kills only if almost all the pellets hit. even then it would take 2 or 3 hits. even in BF3 one hit shotguns were considered too powerful.

[bpostal]

That damn Claw. It's taken over the Nova for that special place in my heart that makes me want to kick puppies into cement mixers. (Soon to be replaced by Phoenix Fairies)

Really what frustrates me is that shotguns have essentially reduced the TTK to 0 in CQB and it's fucking up my biolab fights. The last time I've actually enjoyed OHKs was Quake 2's Rocket Arena.
Maybe I'll go smoke some meth and see how my gameplay improves.

[moosepoop]

in BF3 shotguns worked because the wonky netcode actually required multiple shots. planetside 2 netcode is actually very good, so a OHK weapon will actually OHK.

[Ghoest9]

I think the game worked great with the original shotguns. They were powerful up close but it was extremely rare that you could one shot some one. And their range was really shot.

The new ones were just a bad idea.

[Snydenthur]

it would be great.

in BF3 i would get all the possible attachments that would tighten the pellet spread. it increases skill ceiling while still allowing for some off aim.

Well, the shotgun is a one shot kill in bf3. I don't mind if they tighten the spread, but that would make it have too much range and shotgun would be overpowered. If they tighten the spread but lessen the damage, there is no place for pump action shotgun.

edit. rbstr, am I really the only one that thinks semi-automatic shotguns are much better than pump actions?

[moosepoop]

If they tighten the spread but lessen the damage, there is no place for pump action shotgun.


nope. that would make pump action better and more versatile.

[NotTheMomma]

*edit*
I wonder how a carbine user would have a chance against a one shot one kill shotgun at shotgun range.
And good vs bad player comparisons are pretty much useless in the first place. Either it's same skill versus same skill or nothing.
Since I've run into this several times, I can say that you (as the carbine user) have to fire first and nail the headshots, or you're staring at a kill screen shortly. You might have some simul-kills, but the headshot TTK on the Serpent in particular is very quick and still causes enough flinch, IMO.

The problem, of course, is that good LA's are conniving bastards, and you often won't see them first. :lol:

As far as any small arms (specifically excluding launchers) with any load being able to one-shot kill with a body-shot, I'm a little reluctant to say that's a good thing. One-shot kill headshots from a semi-auto, I have no problem with. I'm not nearly as good about getting headshots as I'd like to become, so I say that more from the victim's perspective, lol.

[Rahabib]

they have to be pretty much point blank to OHK. 10 feet away its back to 2 (not that that is going to make you feel any better).

[Falcon_br]

I just do not understand one thing.
If all pump actions shotgun got the same status (ok, the vanu got less drop, but slow projectiles).
Why they didn´t just made it NS shotgun to everyone and save money to us when global unlocks are coming?

[GunnyMcDuck]

I get one-shotted in the face by NC shotguns all the time on Matherson.

That's probably why I spend so much time in a tank.


Sent from my California fondleslab.

[Rbstr]

edit. rbstr, am I really the only one that thinks semi-automatic shotguns are much better than pump actions?

I would think so.
They kill in two hits, rather than 1 so the magazine count really doesn't help much in terms of people you can take on. (plus you can't reload after one shot without taking the whole time)
Then, IMO:
There's no real difference in range.
There's a negligible difference in fire rate.
Being the kind of guy better at hitting the first shot than most the semi-autos never gave me the advantage the pump does. It's really a night and day thing for me.

[CraazyCanuck]

They really should turn on collision for enemies.

This would be huge.

[Cats]

I think the game worked great with the original shotguns. They were powerful up close but it was extremely rare that you could one shot some one. And their range was really shot.

The new ones were just a bad idea.

The problem is TTK is so low in this game that nerfing the TTK of shotguns to more reasonable levels will probably make them worthless or at least way too situational compared to conventional weapons.

Though between that and the current situation of bring a pump shotgun or lose, I think I can live without pumps in all honesty.

[Rothnang]

Shotguns are currently overpowered because short range is a much smaller disadvantage than the devs compensate for with insane damage.

The reality is, you can get away from most long range attacks, because the TTK on them is pretty long, several seconds usually, but you can't get away from short range attacks, since shotguns one or two shot you, and even designated longer range weapons have a fraction of the TTK they have at range when used up close.

On top of that every single battlefield where infantry is essential is in close quarters, so you just end up with a situation where shotguns are the best weapon to use. They may lack versatility, but that's simply not that big of an issue in a game where long range combat can be avoided pretty easily, while close range combat is inevitable.

[MrVicchio]

If you are dying to shotguns, you are too close. Shotties are crap after 5-10m. SMG's pwn a shotty gunner outside that range, and in a highly mobile fight. bunny hoppers tend to make shotgunning less productive as well, but that's part netcode abuse part bunny hopping stupidity.

[moosepoop]

If you are dying to shotguns, you are too close. Shotties are crap after 5-10m.

all in door fights are 5-10m.

you can pull that sort of bullshit on the forum, but lets be more open and honest here.

because one day, your opponent is gonna decide not to be farmed and have a shotgun waiting for you in that litle room. then it wont be fun anymore.

[Rothnang]

Yea, the short range of shotguns just isn't anywhere near as huge of a downside as people make it out to be, because in most of the places where infantry fighting gets really heavy there aren't any places where long range weapons shine. In general there are hardly any places where long range infantry weapons really dominate the field simply because long range fire has TTKs that make it possible to comfortably step out of the way.

[SGTHACK]

Not me, give me a big gun and a big magazine..:)

[moosepoop]

Yea, the short range of shotguns just isn't anywhere near as huge of a downside as people make it out to be, because in most of the places where infantry fighting gets really heavy there aren't any places where long range weapons shine. In general there are hardly any places where long range infantry weapons really dominate the field simply because long range fire has TTKs that make it possible to comfortably step out of the way.

i think right now indoor bases are way too tight and theres too much clutter. there should be some buildings with wide inner spaces.

the other problem is once everybody gives in and gets a shotgun, fights will be very boring and extremely random.


right now sure, its fun to squad wipe with a shotgun, but when they have shotguns too, its not fun anymore.

[MrVicchio]

all in door fights are 5-10m.

you can pull that sort of bullshit on the forum, but lets be more open and honest here.

because one day, your opponent is gonna decide not to be farmed and have a shotgun waiting for you in that litle room. then it wont be fun anymore.

First off son, no need for the foul mouth. Some fighting is inside, some is outside, if you're outside... shot guns aren't ideal. If you're storming a tower, expect some folks to carry shot guns. Sure, if I hit oyu at close range... DUH, it's a shotgun, it's gonna hurt. But they are slow RoF, damned slow on reload and I can't count the number of times I've missed on that first shot or am reloading and died feeling stupid. They have their advantages and disadvantages.

THAT'S being honest, if you're looking for a cry fest because Shotguns can one shot you close in... qq moar l2play.

[PredatorFour]

If you are dying to shotguns, you are too close.

Slugs. Hhmmmmm .... lovelllyyyy sluuuggggssssss

[Ghoest9]

If you are dying to shotguns, you are too close. Shotties are crap after 5-10m. SMG's pwn a shotty gunner outside that range, and in a highly mobile fight. bunny hoppers tend to make shotgunning less productive as well, but that's part netcode abuse part bunny hopping stupidity.

The new shot gun is a viable weapon out to 15 yards.

You are obviously right that shotguns are worse than smgs beyond 10 yards.


but that was the case for the old shotguns too. We didnt need an even better shotgun.

[Tenhi]

And, well, no wonder they're so OP if they're shooting thesehttp://www.packingserviceinc.com/uploads/media/Shipping-Pallets.jpg

Fixed it only for you ;)

[moosepoop]

First off son, no need for the foul mouth. Some fighting is inside, some is outside, if you're outside... shot guns aren't ideal. If you're storming a tower, expect some folks to carry shot guns. Sure, if I hit oyu at close range... DUH, it's a shotgun, it's gonna hurt. But they are slow RoF, damned slow on reload and I can't count the number of times I've missed on that first shot or am reloading and died feeling stupid. They have their advantages and disadvantages.


you make it sound like indoor fights are optional. enemies blowing gens? i guess ill stay outside and let them take the base, use range and distance as my advantage! :rolleyes:

every single base is close quarters? i guess ill just avoid 90% of the infantry fights and miss huge aspect of gameplay. because shotguns would kill me. im learning to play!



THAT'S being honest, if you're looking for a cry fest because Shotguns can one shot you close in... qq moar l2play.
im looking for SOE to nerf your pump action so you waste 7 dollars/20 hours. is that so wrong? :)


after all the magrider lolpodder fiasco, which do you think is more likely, me learning 2 play, or your weapon getting "balanced"? :)

[Dragonskin]

The new shot gun is a viable weapon out to 15 yards.

You are obviously right that shotguns are worse than smgs beyond 10 yards.


but that was the case for the old shotguns too. We didnt need an even better shotgun.

To go with this I think people have a really hard time realizing what an actual meter or yard is in relative space. 1 yard is 3 feet. If you can hit a target at 10 yards that is 30 feet. Go count out 30 feet and see exactly how far that is and then go to a Bio Lab, tower or Tech plant inside the buildings and around them. 30 feet is a lot more than people seem to realize. You are in CQC areas a lot more than people seem to realize.

[bpostal]

To those who have forgotten (or choose to ignore) let me remind you of one important fact: Every single fight is over a capture point.

That capture point is not something you can get away from if you want to flip a base. You are ALWAYS forced into close range if you want to maintain control over the cap point.

[moosepoop]

To those who have forgotten (or choose to ignore) let me remind you of one important fact: Every single fight is over a capture point.

That capture point is not something you can get away from if you want to flip a base. You are ALWAYS forced into close range if you want to maintain control over the cap point.

the pump shotgun users are the real victims.

after the 7 or 8th time SOE releases an op new weapon, they nerfs them to hell in 3 weeks after sales peak. those guys fell for it. AGAIN. :)

[MrVicchio]

you make it sound like indoor fights are optional. enemies blowing gens? i guess ill stay outside and let them take the base, use range and distance as my advantage! :rolleyes:

every single base is close quarters? i guess ill just avoid 90% of the infantry fights and miss huge aspect of gameplay. because shotguns would kill me. im learning to play!
Shotguns are gonna be there, you either learn to live with this, accept that yeah, someone nail you 2 feet away, you're DEAD. Period, have a nice day.

But you know what? A Heavy, with the right spec, can absorb a shotgun slug! I know, I've done it, I've been on the losing end of that.


im looking for SOE to nerf your pump action so you waste 7 dollars/20 hours. is that so wrong? :)


after all the magrider lolpodder fiasco, which do you think is more likely, me learning 2 play, or your weapon getting "balanced"? :)
The weapon IS balanced, demanding SoE nerf a gun because you can't figure out how to counter is a YOU problem, not a shotgun problem.

Ways to beat a shot gun at close range. "Strafe fire"! Yes, move. If a shotty misses you, he has to wait to hit you while you're pouring fire on him! WHAT A CONCEPT! Toss a nade BEFORE you rush in! What a concept! Bouncing nades distract the gunner, and can buy you time while he scrambles and also do damage to take away his advantage.

Or you can whine, cry, bitch, moan and well.. be an easy kill for the rest of us.

[Falcon_br]

the pump shotgun users are the real victims.

after the 7 or 8th time SOE releases an op new weapon, they nerfs them to hell in 3 weeks after sales peak. those guys fell for it. AGAIN. :)

My friends are already complaining that the pump actions got nerfed, they are shoting in wall and they say that there is only 9 of the 10 pellets on the wall, I can´t confirm that.

[Emperor Newt]

The weapon IS balanced, demanding SoE nerf a gun because you can't figure out how to counter is a YOU problem, not a shotgun problem.

Ways to beat a shot gun at close range. "Strafe fire"! Yes, move. If a shotty misses you, he has to wait to hit you while you're pouring fire on him! WHAT A CONCEPT! Toss a nade BEFORE you rush in! What a concept! Bouncing nades distract the gunner, and can buy you time while he scrambles and also do damage to take away his advantage.

Or you can whine, cry, bitch, moan and well.. be an easy kill for the rest of us.

So your counter to one shot one kills shotguns is hoping you oponnent misses/has bad aim. Brilliant.

[Takoita]

About that enemy collision: could we re-test that? I could've sworn I've bumped into some vanu after GU4.

[moosepoop]

Or you can whine, cry, bitch, moan and well.. be an easy kill for the rest of us.

you sound familiar. did you use to drive a magrider? i cant remember how that ended up.

i can shoot a rocket all over your face, or grenade spam, but that doesnt feel fair or fun to me, and i dont play like a cheap little whore. :)

So your counter to one shot one kills shotguns is hoping you oponnent misses/has bad aim. Brilliant.

initial endorphin rush from buying a new op weapon. feels a little powerful telling others to "deal with it". sounds like bully issues.
these trash are common in f2p games. they come and go :)

[Qwan]

I have to admit that I am attached to my pump action shot gun, but I only use it with my light assault or medic, because most of the time I find myself up close and persnnal in those classes. Also the base will dictate, like towers, and Bio domes I switch to shot guns, its the only one that I own, I dont have any of the other one's.

[Assist]

the pump shotgun users are the real victims.

after the 7 or 8th time SOE releases an op new weapon, they nerfs them to hell in 3 weeks after sales peak. those guys fell for it. AGAIN. :)

Make up more shit?
I play VS so speaking for those weapons that were released by SoE, which ones were nerfed? The rocket launchers(Decimator)? Carbines(Serpent)? SMGs(Sirius)? None of them were nerfed since their release that I know of.
Attempting to belittle people doesn't make your argument any more right. Attempting to do it with bullshit just makes you look like a tool. Calling people trash who buy a weapon is a bit excessive. The weapon is certainly good in CQC, but there's plenty of counters to shotgun light assault players. A few proximity/claymore mines will discourage any LA in a Bio Lab, infil with smg should always get the jump on a LA, heavy with their shield can react before the shotguns kill them. Shotguns are only good if you get the jump on the player, which is exactly how they should be IMO. The downside is you have to be close to be effective, if you have to fire twice at someone with the pump you're going to die to their buddy next to them. It's the same balance as the rest of the game and the rest of the guns. Your issue seems to be with people simply dying too fast, that I can agree with. If the TTK was raised across the board then there'd be a lot more room to make shotguns different from what they are at the moment.

If you're still getting ripped to pieces by shotguns than it is indeed a l2p issue. When you die over and over to the same thing, you should probably change your tactic rather than whine about what's killing you. Your comment about Magriders shows that you do very little research on the balancing. The Magrider is basically back to being what it was pre-nerf, because it was nerfed far too much and SoE finally acknowledged that. People didn't have the tools back then to deal with them, and they didn't use the tools they did have.

[moosepoop]

no need to get your panties in a twist just because i mentioned magrider.

its my belief that players who buy power are trash, and i stand by it. especially those that flaunt it and tell others to "l2p".

[PredatorFour]

There is no issue with 'Shotgunside 2 ' .....

....Move along .

[MrVicchio]

So your counter to one shot one kills shotguns is hoping you oponnent misses/has bad aim. Brilliant.
Your counter is to nerf what your lack of skills cannot overcome. You seem like the type of guy that tried idkfa and iddqd when playing single player shooters aren't you?

[MrVicchio]

no need to get your panties in a twist just because i mentioned magrider.

its my belief that players who buy power are trash, and i stand by it. especially those that flaunt it and tell others to "l2p".

Buy power? So you run with just base everything? Have you used a single cert for anything?

Hmmm?

[Snydenthur]

no need to get your panties in a twist just because i mentioned magrider.

its my belief that players who buy power are trash, and i stand by it. especially those that flaunt it and tell others to "l2p".

You can't really buy power. It just very common to whine about op things in games. Everybody does it, some people just go public with it. I often think that the gun that killed me is op, no matter what it is. I don't rage about it, I don't whine about it in forums, I just do it myself since it's more fun to feel like I got killed by the weapon, not the user. In reality, I know there isn't overpowered weapons at the moment. Even nc max is balanced.

Even if every weapon was nerfed/buffed to be the same, you would still see posts about something being overpowered. It's the players, not the game.

[Emperor Newt]

Your counter is to nerf what your lack of skills cannot overcome. You seem like the type of guy that tried idkfa and iddqd when playing single player shooters aren't you?
Uh, more personal insults. That's all you could come up with?

And no, I said not that it needs to be nerfed into the ground (although the range damage is pretty rediculous, but I think there was a ninja-nerf in one of the patches? Didn't check). My argument is that those weapon should not be in the game in the first place.
The problem with such guns is that they are not rewarding to be on the recieving end. They hurt engagements. Shotguns and engagements in general feel fun even if you die, as long as one has at least the feeling that he would have had a fighting chance. With one-shot-one-kill weapons this is not the case.
This is why people say they are op. They do not need to be op, it's just because the large difference in plain ttk make the recieving player feel powerless. That's like bringing a rocket launcher into a instagib match. You will make your kill every now and then, being able to outsmart the enemy, but sooner or later you will notice that you aren't going anywhere. That it needs way more work on your side when you just could go and also grab an instagib rifle and join the fun. At this point people feel cheated on.

And that's the problem. It's the exact same thing that was wrong with rocket pods (and maybe to some degree still is), the same thing that was wrong with shotguns on infiltrators and the same thing that is wrong with scattermaxes. If the player does not have the feeling he is on an even playing level he feels cheated. And as calling hax doesn't work they say it's op. Although the problem is simply flawed game design.

And "l2p" doesn't help in any case, especially in a free2play game where the large percentage of player are casual which won't be able to outsmart experienced players. Which does not mean that everybody needs to carry the same weapon but it needs to give experienced players good tools to shine and still unexperienced players the feeling that they lost because the other one was better, not because he has the superior gun (which does not need to be the cases, only the false impression, as explained above).
And infantry one-hit-one-kill weapons break this feeling simply by design, because it's the most unrewarding experience one can have in a shooter.
As long as those weapons are in the game the complaining will not stop until they nerf them. Besides the popular vote in the roadmap SOE decided to put them in anyway. Now they have to reap what they sow.

[DrankTHEKoolaid]

I only use shotguns on my LA, doesn't really matter which one, I like them all. That being said it's the only class I use them on. The other classes aren't mobile enough for me to restrict my range that much.

I do think they are pretty easy in any sort of facility, but no matter what class I'm playing I don't really have an issue with fighting against them. The Pumps rarely one shot me and the semi/full autos rarely two shot me. If you're not doing that then the TTK really isn't that great.

[Shamrock]

I use one, they need to be nerfed, the fire rate is too close to an auto-shotty.

[MrVicchio]

Uh, more personal insults. That's all you could come up with?

And no, I said not that it needs to be nerfed into the ground (although the range damage is pretty rediculous, but I think there was a ninja-nerf in one of the patches? Didn't check). My argument is that those weapon should not be in the game in the first place.
The problem with such guns is that they are not rewarding to be on the recieving end. They hurt engagements. Shotguns and engagements in general feel fun even if you die, as long as one has at least the feeling that he would have had a fighting chance. With one-shot-one-kill weapons this is not the case.
This is why people say they are op. They do not need to be op, it's just because the large difference in plain ttk make the recieving player feel powerless. That's like bringing a rocket launcher into a instagib match. You will make your kill every now and then, being able to outsmart the enemy, but sooner or later you will notice that you aren't going anywhere. That it needs way more work on your side when you just could go and also grab an instagib rifle and join the fun. At this point people feel cheated on.

And that's the problem. It's the exact same thing that was wrong with rocket pods (and maybe to some degree still is), the same thing that was wrong with shotguns on infiltrators and the same thing that is wrong with scattermaxes. If the player does not have the feeling he is on an even playing level he feels cheated. And as calling hax doesn't work they say it's op. Although the problem is simply flawed game design.

And "l2p" doesn't help in any case, especially in a free2play game where the large percentage of player are casual which won't be able to outsmart experienced players. Which does not mean that everybody needs to carry the same weapon but it needs to give experienced players good tools to shine and still unexperienced players the feeling that they lost because the other one was better, not because he has the superior gun (which does not need to be the cases, only the false impression, as explained above).
And infantry one-hit-one-kill weapons break this feeling simply by design, because it's the most unrewarding experience one can have in a shooter.
As long as those weapons are in the game the complaining will not stop until they nerf them. Besides the popular vote in the roadmap SOE decided to put them in anyway. Now they have to reap what they sow.


A Shotty cannot one shot a properly certed heavy. You want to counter a shotty, go heavy. Sounds like you want to be a light fighter or inf and be able to go toe to toe with people.

Again, it all circles back to a you problem.

Shotguns are fine, they have their advantages and disadvantages. Some people learn these, work with the advantages (and use them to their advantage when fighting someone who has a shotty) and exploit the weaknesses.

Others whine.

[wasdie]

all in door fights are 5-10m.

you can pull that sort of bullshit on the forum, but lets be more open and honest here.

because one day, your opponent is gonna decide not to be farmed and have a shotgun waiting for you in that litle room. then it wont be fun anymore.

To expand on this, I use the shotgun in pretty much every situation unless there is absolutely no cover for infantry.

If you know how to use your light assault (and it's not hard to do) the shotgun is rarely not the weapon you want to use.

It's broken. Simple as that. Shotguns need a massive nerf across the board.

[DrankTHEKoolaid]

I use one, they need to be nerfed, the fire rate is too close to an auto-shotty.

The fire rate of the pump is less than half of the semi auto shotguns and even further away from the auto shotties.

[Snydenthur]

If the player does not have the feeling he is on an even playing level he feels cheated. And as calling hax doesn't work they say it's op. Although the problem is simply flawed game design.

Well, there's the problem. Games are not supposed to be even, that would be the most boring game ever. First, there is skill, that alone makes the games uneven. Second, there needs to be different kinds of weapon. How would you balance them other than having some that are great at something or jack-of-all-trades? Your post makes it seem like every weapon should be the same.

[Tenhi]

If they nerf the pellet spread of the pumpgun everything is fine. Right now it has the lowest pellet spread together with the 6-Shot Semiauto.

Also looking at the old shotguns. Why did they normalize the ammo pool?-_- The only reason to buy the Nova was the larger ammo pool...

[DrankTHEKoolaid]

As much as I love the pumps, I only like using them in smaller battles. Frame rates are a natural nerf to them lol.

[moosepoop]

To expand on this, I use the shotgun in pretty much every situation unless there is absolutely no cover for infantry.

If you know how to use your light assault (and it's not hard to do) the shotgun is rarely not the weapon you want to use.

It's broken. Simple as that. Shotguns need a massive nerf across the board.

yep. i use only autoshotgun on my light assault and engineer, but from the first kill with the pump action i knew its definitely unbalanced.

I use one, they need to be nerfed, the fire rate is too close to an auto-shotty.

i agree. the combination of firing rate/range/damage hitting all the sweet spots is the problem.

when i miss with the pump action, i usually have enough time to kill on second or third hit. with heavy assault shield you can buy enough time to kill on the 5th hit, its guarenteed for me.

[Emperor Newt]

Well, there's the problem. Games are not supposed to be even, that would be the most boring game ever. First, there is skill, that alone makes the games uneven. Second, there needs to be different kinds of weapon. How would you balance them other than having some that are great at something or jack-of-all-trades? Your post makes it seem like every weapon should be the same.
I really don't know where you get the impression from. I actually express that this should not be the case.

But as English is not my native lanuguage, to make my point more clear: Skill will always make games uneven. No doubt about that. But once a weapon takes very little skill to use "too effectively" and it takes way more skill to actually counter it, something is very wrong with the design of it.

It actually should be the other way round. In competetive games skill always works in the way that the most rewarding ways to score kills (or whatever matters) are the hardest ones to pull off.
The problem with pump action shotguns is that they are too forgiving, especially concerning range and that there are infinite respawns and even if you can kill him the player will be back shortly after. If there must be one shot one kill guns they should be absolutely deadly in the hands of someone who knows how to utilize their full potential. But currently this is not the case.
Their use is too simple, too easy. It's very easy to pick them up and annoy other players with it, but very hard for players on the recieving end to counter them. That's what is causing the uproar against it.
Compare it with bold action sniper rifles, which take quiet some training to be deadly with them. It's not that hard to hit, but to pull off headshots over long distances is something that is pretty hard to learn and takes some real dedication.
Now with shotguns it will be pretty hard to bring them in line without overnerfing them. I don't say that it's impossible, but they could have saved themself the trouble. There is a reason why one shot one kill weapons are rarely seen outside of sniper rifles and maybe stuff like rocket launchers.

[Figment]

Currently I feel the amount of SMGs and shotguns push the standard weapons completely into obsoletion. Which is quite impressive considering the TTKs were already insanely low.

Problem for me is I'm being one and two shot by shotguns at ranges where I can't hipfire (which is pretty damn inaccurate anyway even with full attachments) and often need more than a clip with a Mercenary with burst fire because despite the reticule being on target, every shot missing (fun, that random wide spread to either side of a player...).

There's just no competing possible against too many things in this game and tbh, that is making an already excruciatingly annoying game with regards to reaching objectives even more annoying. :/

How many lives does one need to reach an objective if they just keep introducing more one and two hit kill weapons?

Underbarrel grenade launchers, indoor proximity mines, shotguns, SMGs, sniper rifles, HE, it's getting extremely annoying. Especially when so many of the bigger outfits have tons of people with those short TTK weapons... Oh well. Zerg must rule everything don't they.

[DeltaGun]

Welcome to Shotgunside 2.

Seriously devs.. seriously? If you are going to make pump actions mandatory then just give them for free.

[moosepoop]

Welcome to Shotgunside 2.

Seriously devs.. seriously? If you are going to make pump actions mandatory then just give them for free.

SOE needs to send their human resources to check the marketing department, theres a psychopath in the office.

this is outright ruthless exploitation, and whoever is directing this is going to kill the game.

[Figment]

SOE needs to send their human resources to check the marketing department, theres a psychopath in the office.

this is outright ruthless exploitation, and whoever is directing this is going to kill the game.

There's reaction and overreaction. >.>

The more logical conclusion would be they probably simply didn't anticipate this much usage and didn't expect them to be this powerful in actual combat.


They seem to have underestimated a lot of their designs in terms of impact, it's the first time for many and there's no test server to get feedback.

[Snydenthur]

The problem with pump action shotguns is that they are too forgiving, especially concerning range and that there are infinite respawns and even if you can kill him the player will be back shortly after. If there must be one shot one kill guns they should be absolutely deadly in the hands of someone who knows how to utilize their full potential. But currently this is not the case.

Have you tried them in an actual fight? They might seem like the best weapon ever, if you try it in vr against immobile targets. But on real battle, it's really hard to win against other weapons out of a range of 10 meters (which really isn't much). The almost sure one shot kill range of 0-5m usually requires good reflexes. Pump actions are very unforgiving. Most of the time you only get one shot against an average player. If you miss it, you're dead.

I would love to see some footage of a complete newbie to the game pick up the pump action. I would bet on him/her failing to get much kills, when with carbine he/she would actually stand a better chance.

Even I, who has used shotgun in every situation for a while now, am actually going back to using a carbine in every situation, since it's just so much better. You don't have those annoying out-of-range situations inside and you can engage the long range targets too. For close range, TTK is so good and I know the pump action well enough to have no problem going against them. Well, a few of them. I still haven't seen much pump action shotguns around miller, most of the enemy are using semi auto shotguns or the class weapons with a few occasional smg-users.

[Neutral Calypso]

This really is a "right tool for the job" sort of thing. I typically grab a nighthawk when in CQC, a Lynx/MSW-R/TRV when I think I got to switch between CQC and outdoors combat a lot, and a Jaguar/TMG-50/NS-11 when I got to do mainly outdoors stuff.

[Sifer2]

It's because they are OP, and more people are figuring it out. You can easily see how broken they are in VR training. One shot kill bodyshot at typical indoor range engagements. Meaning indoors there is no competitiveness. The person with the Pump wins regardless of skill.

Then equip it with slugs, and discover it's a fast two body shot kill out to surprisingly long ranges. This shotgun actually out performs AR's at typical mid range engagement range. It only loses once damage degradation finally kicks in a long ways out. This is more powerful than the Pistol from Halo:CE.

[Twido]

Having been watching this thread for a while, it is clear that people fall into one of two camps: Those that have shotguns and think they are loads of fun but not OP, then there are those that don't have them and are fed up of been easily killed by them when fighting indoors.

Leaving aside all the arguments of limited range, situationality and capture points, my worry is that they turn new players away from the game. New players won't typically have access to these guns and, since they are still learning, are more likely to be killed in general. When shot at by a standard gun, there is more oppertunity to react and understand the mistakes you are making. When its a shotgun all you get is frustraition. Since new players are the lifeblood of the game and, having not yet invested significant time or money in it are more likely just to quit, this harms its long term prospects

For the record, I don't think pump action shotguns are any worse than automatic ones. But since both these types are already implimented, it would be very difficult to nerf them without causing an uproar.

[Snydenthur]

Leaving aside all the arguments of limited range, situationality and capture points, my worry is that they turn new players away from the game. New players won't typically have access to these guns and, since they are still learning, are more likely to be killed in general. When shot at by a standard gun, there is more oppertunity to react and understand the mistakes you are making. When its a shotgun all you get is frustraition. Since new players are the lifeblood of the game and, having not yet invested significant time or money in it are more likely just to quit, this harms its long term prospects

New players are turned away from the game because they aren't ready to watch few videos to learn what to do. And if they aren't good fps players in the first place, they will die a lot and very fast to every weapon there is. After that they just return to bf3 or cod, since they are the most newbie friendly fps-games. And cod even has one-shot-kill snipers and shotguns. Bf3 has one shot kill shotguns (and sniper rifles in close range).

[Thunderhawk]

As Light Assault, I almost exclusively use the Pandora (Auto shotty) or the Phobos VX85 (Pump Action), and my third loadout is the VX6-7.

I tend to hardly ever use the VX6-7 unless it's a fight on open ground, but I dont put myself in those situations very often, and limit myself to building fights, be it facilities, bases, towers or outposts.

It's about having the right tool for the situation, and frankly I have it down to:-

1. Base / Facility / Outpost : Auto Shotty (Pandora)
2. Tower : Pump Action Shotgun

Works out quite well.

[Twido]

New players are turned away from the game because they aren't ready to watch few videos to learn what to do. And if they aren't good fps players in the first place, they will die a lot and very fast to every weapon there is. After that they just return to bf3 or cod, since they are the most newbie friendly fps-games. And cod even has one-shot-kill snipers and shotguns. Bf3 has one shot kill shotguns (and sniper rifles in close range).

Be that as it may (even if it is rubbish), if we look down our noses at all the new players and have a "learn to play" attitude to things that cause them frustraition then this game will fail.

Fortunately I think most of the community are better than that so I have high hopes.

[Snydenthur]

Be that as it may (even if it is rubbish), if we look down our noses at all the new players and have a "learn to play" attitude to things that cause them frustraition then this game will fail.

Fortunately I think most of the community are better than that so I have high hopes.

Only learn to play attitude there was that if you just jump on the game, you have no idea what to do and where to go etc. That's why there are a lot of good and not too long videos around the web. I watched a few of them before I started this game too. Otherwise I would've probably quit after like 30 minutes and never returned.

I only mentioned the new players dying to every weapon easily, since you brought it up. It's not shotguns that kill the new players, it's every gun if they are new to fps-shooters. The ones that have played them a lot, have much easier time to fight against everyone, including the shotguns.

There is place for learn to play attitude at gunplay though. If people knew that they can't just run into the rooms and around corners without a bit of caution, they do deserve to be killed. TTK on every weapon at close range is brutally fast, so there needs to be some cautious play. I know that by experience. Most of my shotgun kills are because of this. I either flank them and shoot from behind, they run in to the room without any concern or I bait them to come close enough. But I don't have any problems to do the same things with carbines either. They don't kill with one shot, but they are very forgiving about missing shots.