Are AP Cannons underpowered?

[Baneblade]

For the longest time I gimped myself against infantry to mainline the Titan-150 AP cannon on my Vanguard. I thought I was setting myself up to maximize my anti vehicle capabilities.

But then VR came out and I did a more thorough test of the Titans:

AP: 6 Direct hits to kill a Prowler from the front.
HEAT: 6 Direct hits to kill a Prowler from the front.

The HEAT cannon has the added benefit of secondary damage to whoever repairs the tank.

Similar testing on other vehicles resulted in identical TTKs regardless of whether I used the AP or HEAT cannon.

So I guess my question is... why should anyone ever use AP tank weapons? The difference in velocity isn't significant, or frankly noticeable except in the strictest testing parameters.

I'll be changing my certs over to the Titan HEAT Cannon asap.

As for fixing the AP cannons... perhaps a significantly higher velocity and a damage boost.

NOTE: I only really tested the Vanguard cannons, I was a little too pissed off to test the other two MBTs or the Lightning.

[Figment]

Any rate of fire difference?

[KaskaMatej]

Any rate of fire difference?

No. Source. (http://www.ps2calc.com/)

[Ghodere]

Any rate of fire difference?

None. There is, however, a damage and shell velocity increase. Even if the damage increase does not reduce standalone TTK, it will reduce TTK when combined with other weapons (secondaries, particularly the Vulcan due to its consistent damage) often.

Conclusion: It's a sidegrade that could stand to gain more AV power without being considered OP.

[GreyFu]

Have to agree that there is no real benefit or incentive to go for AP

if they can get people away from using HEAT by actually improving AP it will also potentially give boots on the ground less to worry about with out constantly giving them more toys or the advantage.

It lacks punch, should travel straighter and should have a damage advantage. Possibly even some turret stabilization
Vanguard user here.

[AThreatToYou]

In theory, AP shells would honestly be inferior to HEAT rounds at destroying basically everything. That considered, it'd be cool if the AP guns featured a ~20% rate of fire increase.

[Sirisian]

Yeah this is the same for the Magrider. It's painfully obvious when going against a prowler with heat rounds. Not sure what good the AP round is now.

[Rothnang]

AP cannons are not underpowered. HE and HEAT rounds are overpowered, they inflict way too much damage to hardened targets.

[Guplup]

AP cannons are not underpowered. HE and HEAT rounds are overpowered, they inflict way too much damage to hardened targets.

HE does hardly anything to tanks, but yeah, HEAT on MBTs is a little too good at everything.


AP seems pretty balanced on Lightnings though. I believe it takes 1 less shot from the rear, and 2 less from other sides. The higher velocity is also great though.

[Rothnang]

HE does plenty of damage to tanks. I mean, think of it this way, how much harder is it to hit infantry with AP over HE? 3 times? 4 times? 5 times? How much damage does AP do to tanks compared to HE though? Maybe twice as much if that.


I would love to have the Dalton on the Liberator be more like an AP cannon, with higher accuracy and less drop, but little splash. Unfortunately all the Liberator belly guns seem to be stuck in infantry farming mode, whether that's what you want to do with them or not.

[Sledgecrushr]

Im pretty sure th AP rounds do an extra 250 points on a direct hit. Theres a lot of modifiers on where you hit so not all of that damage is actually applied to the target.

[DeltaGun]

They did a really good job balancing the AP rounds. Faster + A little extra damage means they really fulfill that role in the sense of a side-grade.

Tthe tradeoff of being so ineffective vs. infantry is pretty severe, though. When I use AP I really feel like I should do more damage than HEAT, and I'm not really getting that. It is a VERY careful balancing act.

[Emperor Newt]

It depends on the vehicle and gun. But in many situations the problem is not that AP guns are too weak, but that the difference in hits required and ttk to HEAT doesn't cut it to decide to give up almost all your AI capabilities.
The same also applies in many situations to HEAT vs HE. Also AV damage of HE is pretty neat for being described as an AI weapon.

The either have to buff AP/HE or nerf HEAT. Don't know which way would be better.

I use AP on my Magrinder (mainly because I don't have anything else) and the damage very often feels really underwhelming for being almost useless against AI (compared to AV and AI damage of HEAT). The tradeoff is not wort the small buff in AV damage.

[MaxDamage]

HE does hardly anything to tanks, but yeah, HEAT on MBTs is a little too good at everything.

This was fixed in GU4 or thereabouts.
It is now crap against infantry.

[Rothnang]

The problem is a bit more complicated than that.

Roughly 40% of a tanks damage potential comes from the secondary weapon. Anti-infantry secondaries deal absolutely no damage to vehicles, and aren't really all that great against infantry either. The anti vehicle secondaries, with the exception of the Saron are ok against infantry. The Basilisk is mediocre against infantry, since its too inaccurate to really do a lot of damage to it. The tank mounted AA guns are bad against ground vehicles and pretty crummy against infantry too due to not being able to angle down.

The AP cannon is better against vehicles than the HEAT or HE cannon, but it's really bad against infantry, since it takes direct hits to kill infantry.

The vast majority of targets you will encounter as a tank are infantry, and at least a third of that infantry will have some way of effectively harming you, and kill you if you don't either flee or kill it first. There is absolutely no way around having a good anti infantry weapon as a tank unless you are part of such a large vehicle column that someone else can take care of it guaranteed.

So that just doesn't leave you with a whole lot of viable configurations for a tank. If you go with an AP cannon you pretty much need to put an anti-vehicle capable secondary on the tank, because there is no way the AP cannon alone can make up for the extra damage an anti-vehicle secondary can inflict, and giving up all your anti-infantry power on the main gun isn't worth it if you don't go all the way. The secondary ALSO needs to be your anti-infantry option though. That basically leaves you with four viable choices: Basilisk, Helberd, Vulcan or Enforcer. The Vanu have one fewer choice than the other factions because the Saron sucks against infantry.

The dedicated anti-infantry secondaries all suck, there isn't one of them that is commonly used. For one, the four weapons I mentioned above are so strong against infantry still that there really is no reason to go for a dedicated anti-infantry weapon, and secondly, a tank that packs multiple hybrid weapons is overall stronger against all kinds of targets than a tank that packs two specialized weapons.

That's IMO where the problem s. A tank with a HEAT cannon and Helberd on top will demolish enemy tanks and infantry alike. A tank with an AP cannon and a Cobalt on top is only a fraction as useful against both. You simply aren't gaining anything by equipping an AP cannon unless you already have anti-tank potential in the secondary. Trading an anti-vehicle capable secondary for a pure anti infantry secondary while trading your hybrid main gun for a dedicated anti vehicle gun simply doesn't produce a strong vehicle, it just ends up with a vehicle that can't bring overwhelming firepower to bear against any type of target.

[Figment]

HE does plenty of damage to tanks. I mean, think of it this way, how much harder is it to hit infantry with AP over HE? 3 times? 4 times? 5 times?

Dunno, I hit them in the face with either for one shot kills anyway.

[ChipMHazard]

Ideally I would have liked to see the AP rounds be able to negate some of the damage mitigation on tanks.

I agree with the HEAT being superior overall, I don't see much reason to pick AP over HEAT, currently.

[Hamma]

I think they are tricky to get the hang of because you have to be very accurate. But I do not think they are underpowered.

[Assist]

I agree with others that the problem is the HEAT does too much armor damage. I run a FPC setup on my Magrider and I'm really starting to wonder why. I actually drove up to an enemy Sunderer to drop tank mines on it because I couldn't kill the Sunderer with just one Engineer repairing it and there is no blast radius on the AP to kill the Engineer. So, IMO, the FPC/AP guns for MBT's need to do a bit more damage, but the HEAT also needs to have it's armor damage reduced.

[Shamrock]

I agree with others that the problem is the HEAT does too much armor damage. I run a FPC setup on my Magrider and I'm really starting to wonder why. I actually drove up to an enemy Sunderer to drop tank mines on it because I couldn't kill the Sunderer with just one Engineer repairing it and there is no blast radius on the AP to kill the Engineer. So, IMO, the FPC/AP guns for MBT's need to do a bit more damage, but the HEAT also needs to have it's armor damage reduced.

Completely agree, in an AP lightning I often find its easier to run over a HA or even jump out and shoot with your engineer than try and hit them with an AP shell.

[Baneblade]

I think they are tricky to get the hang of because you have to be very accurate. But I do not think they are underpowered.

Why should I use my AP cannon after I get the HEAT up to par in reload certs?

[Rothnang]

I think it would be great if all tanks had a coaxial machine gun, because then AP cannons would no longer be so idiotic. I mean, literally just strap my empires standard carbine to the barrel with a shoe string to pull the trigger and it will make AP worth my while.

[bpostal]

...The anti vehicle secondaries, with the exception of the Saron are ok against infantry...

This may be showing my ignorance but...the Sauron is an AV weapon? FML. I figured it for an AI sniping platform, similar to the main cannon on the Maggie in Planetside.

[Rothnang]

A Saron will kill infantry in a direct hit, but calling it a sniper is a total joke.

The best zoom you can get on it is 2.0x, compared to a sniper rifles whopping 12.0x, it fires with a half second delay after you pull the trigger, and its projectile has considerable travel speed at any range where you could call it a sniper shot. It's barrel can't be depressed so it can't hit targets that are close to the Magrider, or otherwise below the gun.

So sure, you can snipe infantry with it pretty much exactly like you can snipe infantry with an AP cannon. It's actually more difficult because of the firing delay and crummy range of motion on the gun.



Also it's a Saron, not a Sauron. I think it's named after a type of musical instrument from Indonesia.

[bpostal]

Huh, I guess my figuring was off since it's just about the only secondary I get killed by.

[Rothnang]

Avoiding getting killed by a Saron is the same as avoiding getting killed by a Sniper, it's not difficult if you aren't tempting your luck.

The only time infantry has to dangerously expose themselves to a Saron is when you try to use an AV Mana against a Magrider. Otherwise if you get hit you're doing something wrong.

[bpostal]

... Otherwise if you get hit you're doing something wrong.

My entire playstyle is 'wrong' but I enjoy it. I breach tech plant doors with my face, act as a human minesweeper and run dick first at MBT with an empty rocket launcher to try and get them to back up.

I'll run in circles like a chicken with my head cut off more often though to avoid 'em. Thanks for the heads up!

[Ghoest9]

Well compared to HEAT - yes.

But we dont want them killing other tanks faster than they are.

I suppose it might be good to make them shoot even flatter than they do now.

[Cruiza]

snip

Perfectly said, Rothnang. I've always wanted to use the Prowler as a pure anti-tank terror, but the overall opportunity cost of trading HEAT for AP is just too great for the almost insignificant benefits it would provide.

So, what is the solution? Well, vaguely speaking, there needs to be more of an overall incentive to choose AP over HEAT. The XP increase for tank kills helps, but it's not nearly enough since the real issue is the minuscule difference between AP and HEAT in the anti-armor role. It doesn't really matter whether the incentive is increased by nerfing HEAT, buffing AP, or a combination of the two, but I personally feel AP shouldn't really be buffed all that much. Rather, I feel the overall effectiveness of HEAT just needs to be toned down, and there are multiple options for achieving such a result (damage reduction, refire/reload time increase, etc.).

Additionally, a new MBT cert option could be introduced that reduces the damage taken from HEAT but not AP rounds. I'm far from a tank expert, but this is apparently the exact purpose of composite and reactive armors IRL. In fact, from the little research I did this afternoon, it sounds like HEAT rounds aren't even used all that often by tanks because of these modern armors. Also, I found very little info on actual dual-purpose HEAT rounds in general. The only ones I did see were those that are fired from grenade launchers - not tanks - and I can only image that their anti-armor effectiveness pales in comparison to AP/KEP rounds fired from an MBT.

Summary:

HEAT should be nerfed, especially against armor
New MBT cert such as composite or reactive armor that reduces damage taken from HEAT
Real tanks apparently don't even use HEAT rounds very often because of modern armor
Do dual-purpose HEAT rounds actually exist for tanks? I only found references to grenade launchers


Summary of Summary:

HEAT is OP in PlanetSide 2

[Silent Thunder]

One way I could think of making AP rounds more effective without making them OP would be to simply make them ignore the 100 cert armours you can slap on a MBT or Lightning, since they are Armour piercing after all.

[Rothnang]

In all honesty, those armor certs should be removed from MBTs.

Instead of being able to up-armor a section of the tank you should be able to pick multiple kinds of all around armor.

Like Reactive armor which makes you much tougher to hurt with explosives, or ablative armor which gives you more hitpoints. In real life armor is tailored to the most likely type of threat. Vehicles can be fitted with directed energy emitters which destroy incoming missiles for example.

A hardkill system that destroys any incoming missile weapons for example would be an awesome cert up for a tank if you intend to fight infantry.

The current tank armor certs are just kind of lame, especially when you take a quick glance at the Sunderer with its insane Blockade armor.

[Cruiza]

In all honesty, those armor certs should be removed from MBTs.

Instead of being able to up-armor a section of the tank you should be able to pick multiple kinds of all around armor.

Like Reactive armor which makes you much tougher to hurt with explosives, or ablative armor which gives you more hitpoints. In real life armor is tailored to the most likely type of threat. Vehicles can be fitted with directed energy emitters which destroy incoming missiles for example.

A hardkill system that destroys any incoming missile weapons for example would be an awesome cert up for a tank if you intend to fight infantry.

The current tank armor certs are just kind of lame, especially when you take a quick glance at the Sunderer with its insane Blockade armor.
I agree about the current MBT armor certs being boring and underwhelming. They should be removed or consolidated into a single cert or cert line and new armor systems should be added, each with its own cert line. If an active hardkill system were to be added to the game, it should probably function similarly to the current flares/smokescreens in terms of having a cooldown period. The cert line upgrades could then lower the cooldown and/or increase the number of projectiles that can be intercepted.

[Rothnang]

Yea, the armor upgrades should come in packages like the Airframes for aircraft. The airframes were a real stroke of genius when they were introduced. They aren't perfect in their balancing, but back when every single flight characteristic was its own cert it was a bloody mess, now the choice is more maningful and real.

[Falcon_br]

I am ok with the current setting, new players would be ashamed if they could not kill enemy tanks with the standart cannon of they MBT because they didn´t have certs to the the AP one.

[Rothnang]

Yea, the HEAT cannon shouldn't be useless against tanks, but right now the AP gun just feels like a downgrade.

If you practically give up your ability to fight infantry effectively you really ought to gain something in return.

[Neutral Calypso]

Strange, when I did the same test, the AP destroyed a sunderer in a shorter time than the HEAT did. :/

[Falcon_br]

The TR players can felll the useful of the AP because sometimes it takes one less reload to kill a tank or sunderer, but the vanguard players don't have that same opportunity.
But it is still an upgrade, because faster bullets and a little more damage really helps to untie a tank battle, with long range tank battle is a must have.
In my outfit we normally do 2 prowlers with AP and that rocket, and 2 with heat and that chaingun, so we can support the infantry units against tanks and a bit of help against infantry.

[bpostal]

Yea, the armor upgrades should come in packages like the Airframes for aircraft. The airframes were a real stroke of genius when they were introduced. They aren't perfect in their balancing, but back when every single flight characteristic was its own cert it was a bloody mess, now the choice is more meaningful and real.

I agree, though I will say that while the flight certs may have been a mess it was an absolute dream to be able to just cert into hill climbing for my bang bus.

[ColdCheese]

After the HE nerf, went all in on AP rounds for my Prowler and almost maxed reload times, just need last one. Figured farming armor would be the new thing now that XP for killing them has dramatically increased. While I have been taking out tanks like crazy, I'm sometimes puzzled how I get killed so often by Heat. If the OP is right, then Heat needs to be nerfed bigtime. I hate having to give up my ability to effectively kill infantry in exchange for such a small gain in AV destruction.

While its always a rush to kill an infantry with AP round, gotta have aimbot like aiming skills sometimes, especially with the god awful offset Prowler cannons and the annoying rocking bug. I have to sometimes even hop out and shoot a rushing suicide miner/c-4 because its damn near impossible to hit a running infantry with AP.

I was considering AP on my Lightning so I can snipe tanks, but Heat is cheaper and supposedly kills armor in the same amount of hits and can still be used to lock down a spawn room. Sounds almost like a no brainer to me, very disappointing, especially considering the high cert costs to max out reload and zoom for each specific cannon instead of being a universal cert for each tank :(

[Falcon_br]

Dude, you are a TR player, it is often one less reload to kill enemy tanks with AP, so you are killing them 3,75 faster.
Also, the vanguard can one hit kill ESF with AP, heat won't do the trick, and prowlers can't one hit kill ESP.

[ColdCheese]

Dude, you are a TR player, it is often one less reload to kill enemy tanks with AP, so you are killing them 3,75 faster.
Also, the vanguard can one hit kill ESF with AP, heat won't do the trick, and prowlers can't one hit kill ESP.

Try and consistently hit a moving tank with both rounds, the offset cannons makes it no easy task. Vanguard has a shield, you can get in 2 rounds and take no damage, while I'm a sitting duck with my anchor deployed.

[Falcon_br]

Try and consistently hit a moving tank with both rounds, the offset cannons makes it no easy task. Vanguard has a shield, you can get in 2 rounds and take no damage, while I'm a sitting duck with my anchor deployed.

Dude, I am a TR player, I know the offsets of the prowler, I don't use the stupid anchored mode.
A vanguard dies in 8 shots from ap, 9 from heat, it is one less reload, if you hit all shots. Both in close combat one less reload means lesser time to kill them the vanguard.
If you are close to a vanguard, using ap, run even closer to him, he will not miss you, and you won't also miss him, with the higher dps and AP, it is sure you will kill him before he can kill you.
On long range combats, you will lose at least half a second each shot to compensate the recoil, it is enought to lose a 1x1 combat with a vanguard if both are hitting each other in the front.
Also, even if the vanguard got side armor, always use your speed so he hits your side armor and you hit his side armor, it will be worst for him, even if both got side armor.
The only problem of charging is the possibility of meeting other enemies.
Also, the vanguard got the same lack of back armor as other tanks, wait him to hit your side, run and hit him in the back before he reloads, but after some shots and you got speed to do that.

So ap for prowlers means one less reload.
Ap for vanguard means one shot to kill esf.
Ap for mag riders don't means anything.

[PredatorFour]

Mag AP 2 shots libs and one shots esf's, still agree AP should be abit more powerful. With the new vehicle xp buff people should be driving around with AP but they're not... and that tells its own story imo.

[Baneblade]

Im pretty sure the Titan HEAT cannon can osk esfs.

[Falcon_br]

Ok, used the calculator:
http://www.ps2calc.com

Vanguard can one shot kill with heat an ESF. Looks like the devs made it that way.
The only tank that changes from 2sk to 1sk esf is the magrider with heat and ap.

Also used the calculator to confirm that you need one less shot to kill a magrider with ap them the heat (from 5 to 4 on the sides), if that's not enought you guys really wants to ruin the game with OP ap cannons.

[SGTAce]

They should boost it, ie. AP ignores armor.


Boost AP -> Less High Explosive tanks -> more real tank fights.

[Falcon_br]

Ap is currentely doing more damage them the standard one heat.
If it start ignoring damage reduction, it will be better to the front, the same to the side and less effective from behind.
It is working the way it is now, 15% more damage makes a difference when you are toe to toe with an enemy tank. It is very good to be able to one shot kill from behind with it, what is impossible with heat.

[Baneblade]

Are you saying the VR instance is giving us bad info?

[Rothnang]

It is very good to be able to one shot kill from behind with it, what is impossible with heat.

No AP cannon can one shot another tank from behind.

[Silent Thunder]

No AP cannon can one shot another tank from behind.

IIRC, and I havent tested this in a while, don't both kill in 2 hits to the direct rear? The AP does a bit more damage and more overdamage on the killshot, but since this is PS2 and not DnD, overdamage really doesn't matter.

[Rothnang]

That's correct, every tank including lightning takes 2 shots to the rear from any cannon or rocket launcher, though a lightning will catch fire after the first hit.

[Silent Thunder]

Hmm that gives me kind of a fun idea. Imagine if a tank at critical damage kiled teh driver inside, but the vehicle was ok, and able to be stolen by the other team if they can fix it in time. Hmm, maybe I've just been playing too much Men of War recently.

[Rothnang]

I don't really see that being a good thing because it creates conflicting objectives for your own faction. You'll end up in competition with people who have weapons that destroy vehicles and other players trying to take it over rather than working together with them to just destroy the thing.

[Falcon_br]

Yeah, I was wrong, now way you can one hit kill from behind, but still using that calculator, hitting a target with ap will make most of them to die in one less hit, and in an even battle this will give the necessary advantage.

[Rothnang]

In a straight up tank battle the AP cannon will give you the advantage no matter what, but this game isn't about dueling people, you're just a tiny piece of crap in a giant shitstorm.

[ColdCheese]

It's so tough deciding wether to go all in on AP Lightning rounds and snipe tanks or settle for HEAT and keep some infantry repellent on hand.

[Rothnang]

There is no real need for AP lightnings on the battlefield unless you are good enough to use it as an AA gun.

The reality is, heavy armor in this game is a joke. It's just not like you need specially outfitted vehicles to take down tanks.

[Ruffdog]

Just been on the range because I wanted to see for myself:

"On fire" means it dies by the last round but takes <10 seconds

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb78/Rufffdog/tanktest_zpsb7e9679b.png




I, like Baneblade, wanted the tank-killer loadout and went AP. I've been certing ammo pool and reload speed like a mug it seems. Yes its underpowered compared to HEAT, unless you fight Vannies all day which you probably don't NC?

The caveat is in a real tank battle, the extra velocity for AP is helpful when you have to connect with 2 rounds.

However I will still be dumping it for HEAT faster than you can say "holy shit that's hot shrapnel!"

[Rothnang]

Prowler AP isn't all bad because the anchor mode makes it overpowered as all shit against air. The projectile velocity becomes so absurdly huge that you can easily snipe ESFs out of the sky and make Liberators curse at the devs for not understanding that higher projectile speed doesn't just affect how you hit tanks.

Even on the other tanks the higher speed and flatter trajectory is useful, but not even close to as useful as being able to smash infantry on an almost-hit.

[ColdCheese]

Sounds like AP Prolwer with Halbred is only worth it, lightnings eith HEAT are no brainers. Good thread, saved me some AP tears if I would have gone with them for the lightning and later regretted it after certing it out.

[Hobnail]

It's all a waste of time certing into AP IMHO. An opposing 2/2 MBT with an empire specific AV secondary will out-DPS a fully certed AP.

Better to run with a friend and plow your certs into 2x zoom and your secondary. Two sets of eyes, two weapons and 2x the repair capacity all while retaining the anti-infantry effectiveness of HEAT.

[Chaff]

.
....now if they only made a 3-seat MBT, with better armor, better primary AP gun, Dedicated-Driver , and better 2ndary AI gun,.....perhaps we'd see less TANK SPAM, better armor vs armor fights, and infantry would have to be more respectful of tanks - yet see significantly less MBTs on the battelield. Something along these lines is my preference for Tanks. Oh, and give the Lightning better ground clearance, less tip-over prone, less stuck-in-ditch prone, and generally a tad more maneuverable......and make Skyguard more effective. Current Skyguard loaduot is a Joke.
.

[Sledgecrushr]

Yeah I think they fucked up making the primary gun so powerful against infantry. AI should be the bread and butter of the secondary gun thus making the mbt more of a team oriented vehicle. Instead the mbt gets a gun that does everything and to me that really dont make sense.

[ColdCheese]

Yeah I think they fucked up making the primary gun so powerful against infantry. AI should be the bread and butter of the secondary gun thus making the mbt more of a team oriented vehicle. Instead the mbt gets a gun that does everything and to me that really dont make sense.

AP needs an armor buff bad

[Falcon_br]

My builds are:
Ap+halbert to support infantry against tanks on open grounds. The second most used build.
He+m525 to farm infantry in bases I know the enemy has no tanks, most of them. The build I use most.
Heat+Texas ranger so I can deal with any threat when the enemy force is unknow and I lack any type of backup. Rarely use this one because I always ask for intel on command chat before deploying.

Specialization is allway better them Jack of all trades in those kind of games.

[Rothnang]

There are a few changes they could make to the AP cannon to improve it without raising the damage to absurd levels:

1. If it hits anything that isn't a tank or sunderer it should come out the other side and keep going. It's a kinetic penetrator, it doesn't stop for a little meat in a suit.

2. When it penetrates a vehicle it causes temporary internal damage, slowing the vehicle down, decreasing its reload speed, maybe destroying some of its ammo. (Basically by giving it a debilitating effect on enemy vehicles it allows this gun to win a fight against a HEAT+AV vehicle while having an anti infantry weapon fitted without just giving it insane damage.)

3. It could carry more ammo than exploding weapons, since armor piercing solid shot doesn't require special storage to be safe to have in a tank. Having more ammo in an AP tank than in an HE/HEAT tank would be an advantage in protracted tank battles.

[Baneblade]

After much consideration the easiest and possibly best buff to AP would be to make it the default cannon for MBTs and simply remove HEAT from the game. SOE refunding certs spent on HEAT and SC spent on AP of course.

[Sledgecrushr]

After much consideration the easiest and possibly best buff to AP would be to make it the default cannon for MBTs and simply remove HEAT from the game. SOE refunding certs spent on HEAT and SC spent on AP of course.

Im pretty sure heat comes standard with every tank. Soe has worked so that the brand new player will have a decent weapons out of the gates. I admire this tact but when it comes to tanks you get the absolute best weapon imo to start with. Maybe they should start everyone with AP turret?

[Baneblade]

HEAT does come standard.