LMGs and RPGs

[Palerion]

Heavy assault is currently a class with many big, big weapons. Rocket launchers, LMGs, and a really powerful shield to boot.

Quite frankly I don't understand it very much though, because with all this gear and seemingly no hindrance, it doesn't seem to make very much sense as a class. Especially as the class that is supposed to be the "basic infantry". The common pushing force. It doesn't add up that the most versatile, basic infantry class in the game is meant to hold an LMG and an RPG. That's a lot of gear; gear that I would expect a more specialized unit to carry.

When people complain about RPG and explosives spam, I wonder why the most played infantry class in the game has an RPG on it. And a 100 round automatic weapon. I would expect the most commonly used class (the majority of the fighting force) to be a rifle wielding soldier, not a hulking mass of seemingly unhindered firepower.

I really don't think it should maintain all the versatility, mobility, and firepower it currently has. It can win a face to face fight no problem with its LMG and shield, and it can lob RPGs down range at tanks. It has huge magazines. You can easily give it a medical applicator without losing much versatility. It has huge magazines, the best face-to-face combat capabilities, aside from AV mana turrets, the best ranged AV, and great survivability.

There needs to be a basic infantry class with a rifle, not the current heavy assault. I'm fine with it being a damage absorber, it can even have an LMG and an RPG, but it needs a hindrance. To have that much firepower, it should be moving slower. The LMG should be inaccurate and sluggish without being propped up (bi-podded, a feature we don't currently have) somewhere. The main infantry class should be a well rounded rifle soldier.

EDIT: Let it be known, this is not a direct "NERF! TOO OP!" Thread. I'm just saying it would be more logical for there to be a great vehicle killing class, a great infantry killing class, and a class with a little bit of both. I personally find HA to be all of it mashed into one. Please refrain from insolently tearing into me, I do not intend to offend.

[Sturmhardt]

Thanks for your opinion Palerion! :E

.sent via phone.

[p0intman]

heavy assault are the shock troops. We're the guys that carry the big caliber guns and explosives, yeah?

We do move slower. We can't easily jump over walls. We're not as agile or robust as a medic or engineer. I don't have the jetpacks of LA, either.

What more do you want to do to gimp us? make my accuracy shit unless my lmg is on a tri or bipod? the chaos of combat doesn't always allow for that kind of setup. I had to fight INSIDE the scu room in allatum last night, and i was getting rushed to hell and back every single time i tried to set up. I'm sorry, it just doesn't work like that.

Though, If I had a tripod setup with my LMG that reduced my COF and recoil drastically when magdumping, I'd go for it.

[Palerion]

I just don't understand placing an LMG and an RPG in the same package. And sturmhardt... What...?

[Neurotoxin]

The role of HA is to deal and receive damage against all types of enemy targets. They can't heal, they can't repair, they can only go where other infantry can go, and they can't deploy sensor darts. They have zero support ability, just damage output and longevity. Great for capturing bases or taking down targets, but a well-placed grenade or a few good headshots will basically drop them just the same as other infantry classes.

The reason why infantry go the same speed and have the same health and shields by default is for cohesion and simplification. If players go the same speed, they can stay together better. We don't have rangefinders, so it also makes it easier for sharpshooters to line up shot on distant targets. It also requires less art, as each class and each armor would have different art, and that could take a long time to design and finalize.

Presumably an Engineer carrying limitless ACE and nanite juice, medics carrying limitless healing nanite juice, Light Assault having a heavy steel backpack, and Infiltrators getting less mechanical lifting assistance from powered infantry armor so they must rely on personal strength to lug around gear, so Heavy Assault with a rocket launcher and shield generator isn't unreasonable. The power used to help carry gear is interrupted when shields are engaged, thus explaining the slowdown for HA with the shield on and no slowdown compared to other infantry with the shield off. Booyah.

[p0intman]

I just don't understand placing an LMG and an RPG in the same package. And sturmhardt... What...?

so what else would you have HA carry? a carbine like engineers and medics get?

[Palerion]

There is such thing as an assault rifle. I mean, what if you want to be a powerful face-to-face pushing force without an LMG?? And I really didn't mean to open a can of worms and hostility, but I guess it happens...

[SturmovikDrakon]

I always felt like the Heavy would be much more suited with an assault rifle. SOE had some plans for this but thought otherwise later. It's also unfortunate that with the current state of LMGs, they are just ARs with huge magazines, and are far too accurate, outshining even some of the ARs.

I'd swap the medic and heavy with their main weapons. Or just allow Heavies to pick up ARs, I never understood the logic behind allowing only Medics to wield them

[p0intman]

There is such thing as an assault rifle. I mean, what if you want to be a powerful face-to-face pushing force without an LMG?? And I really didn't mean to open a can of worms and hostility, but I guess it happens...

i actually dont mean to come off as hostile here, i guess im just more curious what exactly you're talking about. it isn't that clear what you're trying to explain or ask, to me, as an HA user.

i guess what im saying is, what alternatives do you see to the current combination of lmg/rockets that would fill the same role as a shock trooper?

[DeltaGun]

Not this thread again. LMGs are fine (trade DPS and accuracy for Magazine). People like LMGs (why play Heavy if LMGs were way worse than every weapon). Every class has their role (Before you say light assault, they are the vertical plane flanking class).

[Palerion]

i actually dont mean to come off as hostile here, i guess im just more curious what exactly you're talking about. it isn't that clear what you're trying to explain or ask, to me, as an HA user.

i guess what im saying is, what alternatives do you see to the current combination of lmg/rockets that would fill the same role as a shock trooper?

Well, I suppose that all depends on your definition of "shock trooper". Shock trooper has been used to describe both light assault for its speed and heavy assault for its firepower.

My issue is that the heavy assault's combat role, if it is to be the frontline soldier, does not seem to fit in the same role as an LMG. LMGs generally suppress from a little ways back, and while I'm okay with being a bit diverse with weaponry, throwing an LMG around like an assault rifle doesn't feel right.

Again, I think Strumovik had a point in saying an assault rifle makes more sense. That is, if you only want one class in the game to have this frontline combat role. Needless to say I think LMGs are worse than ARs in terms of initial killing power (DPS). That is why their classes still slightly baffle me; the HA wins its battles through its TANKING abilities with its shield.

This leaves no place for someone who wants to be less of a tank and more of a straight damage dealer. My point is an LMG class should be suppressing from afar. The class that wins face to face fights should have the best face to face weapon.

P.S. This post spews lots of stuff, lots of ideas.

[p0intman]

Well, I suppose that all depends on your definition of "shock trooper". Shock trooper has been used to describe both light assault for its speed and heavy assault for its firepower.

My issue is that the heavy assault's combat role, if it is to be the frontline soldier, does not seem to fit in the same role as an LMG. LMGs generally suppress from a little ways back, and while I'm okay with being a bit diverse with weaponry, throwing an LMG around like an assault rifle doesn't feel right.

Again, I think Strumovik had a point in saying an assault rifle makes more sense. That is, if you only want one class in the game to have this frontline combat role. Needless to say I think LMGs are worse than ARs in terms of initial killing power (DPS). That is why their classes still slightly baffle me; the HA wins its battles through its TANKING abilities with its shield.

This leaves no place for someone who wants to be less of a tank and more of a straight damage dealer. My point is an LMG class should be suppressing from afar. The class that wins face to face fights should have the best face to face weapon.

P.S. This post spews lots of stuff, lots of ideas.

As a guy who is more of a front like shocktrooper who also dies a lot, I don't use my EM1 for killing at close range, its for medium+ range. the close range gun people should use for front line fighting is the shotgun or the GD22, which I feel is closer to an AR than LMG save for its caliber. I think you just see a lot of people use the lmg at close range because of its large ammo clip. thing is though, its unweildy as fuck. its like using a hammer when you need a knife.

And yes btw, as murder says below me, if you want to give me an AR in addition to the rest of the stuff I have, be my guest. I welcome most additions to my arsenal.

[MurderBunneh]

Assault rifles in this game are better then Lmg in every way except magazine size.
If you want to give my HA an assault rifle I would welcome it.

Example: go to VR equip both the Reaper DMR and Saw with Adv grip and tell me which one is easier to use and drops targets quicker. Both drop targets the same rate at close and med range but the DMR will hit long range targets so accurately they almost melt.

[Palerion]

Assault rifles in this game are better then Lmg in every way except magazine size.
If you want to give my HA an assault rifle I would welcome it.

Example: go to VR equip both the Reaper DMR and Saw with Adv grip and tell me which one is easier to use and drops targets quicker. Both drop targets the same rate at close and med range but the DMR will hit long range targets so accurately they almost melt.

Imo you want to whine about HA but do not to want to be chastised for coming right out and doing it. If that is not the case then make some kind of point about all this.

You're right, I didn't plan on being chastised. It's an aesthetic flaw in my opinion to have one class seemingly overloaded with so much shit.

But since users like you plan to be absolute assholes in response, I suppose it's not worth even discussing. If anything when I post things like this I'm willing to accept explanations as to why the current system makes sense, but instead you find it necessary to, in your own words, "chastise" me.

I don't see frontline soldiers using an "unwieldy" weapon with 100 round mags and holding a heavy anti-vehicle weapon. THAT is my point.

[MurderBunneh]

You're right, I didn't plan on being chastised. It's an aesthetic flaw in my opinion to have one class seemingly overloaded with so much shit.

But since users like you plan to be absolute assholes in response, I suppose it's not worth even discussing. If anything when I post things like this I'm willing to accept explanations as to why the current system makes sense, but instead you find it necessary to, in your own words, "chastise" me.

I don't see frontline soldiers using an "unwieldy" weapon with 100 round mags and holding a heavy anti-vehicle weapon. THAT is my point.

I edited my post but I guess not quick enough...
As I thought though you where just waiting to pounce with your little temper.
Just go back and edit the thread title to "WAAA HA got too many good stuffs they kill me and it's not fair".

Were your hands shaking when you typed that response?

[Badjuju]

I just don't understand placing an LMG and an RPG in the same package. And sturmhardt... What...?

It makes sense to me because that is their role, hence the heavy assault tag. There is much more to balance than 1v1 fights in this game. Other classes trade of their shield and fire power for utility or different types of fire power such as the engi turrets or assault rifles. Assault rifles are some of the best weapons in the game allowing medics to go toe to toe with heavies, but of course have the trade off of having less ammo capacity so less sustained fire. They all have their own roles with different aspects of their class which balance them.

In my opinion it makes perfect sense to give both those weapons to your heavy hitting ground pounder who has no utility.

[Palerion]

I edited my post but I guess not quick enough...
As I thought though you where just waiting to pounce with your little temper.
Just go back and edit the thread title to "WAAA HA got too many good stuffs they kill me and it's not fair".

Were your hands shaking when you typed that response?

You should have read the "please refrain from tearing into me" and "I do not intend to offend". I may come off as a childish whiner, and I'm fine if you want to paint this as such. But don't be a prick. Please. It's not benefiting anyone. Sorry for voicing an opinion.

And I find it funny you act like this when you just created your PSU account yesterday. Coming in with a bang.

[Badjuju]

I would also argue that every class can go toe to toe with a heavy fairly well. The biggest difference would be sustained fire power of LMGs, while other classes of rifles often drop people quicker.

[Ghoest9]

I think its good that HA have both a LMG and an anti-vehicle gun.

And rarely play HA.

[Palerion]

I would also argue that every class can go toe to toe with a heavy fairly well. The biggest difference would be sustained fire power of LMGs, while other classes of rifles often drop people quicker.

I get that, but going face to face, one class will win. It turns out the HA's shield outweighs any damage dealing of other classes, making it always come out on top when approached face-to-face.

I think its good that HA have both a LMG and an anti-vehicle gun.

And rarely play HA.

I do understand that point of view but it is so over-played. You may not play it much, but it is arguably the most popular class on planetside, and really the only one that is "noted" per say by the developers for its firepower. It seems odd when the majority of the population is wielding an anti-vehicle weapon and an LMG.

[Koadster]

heavy assault are the shock troops. We're the guys that carry the big caliber guns and explosives, yeah?

We do move slower. We can't easily jump over walls. We're not as agile or robust as a medic or engineer. I don't have the jetpacks of LA, either

Do you have any data to back up the movement claim? Pretty sure all classes move the same except max.. More robust? whats more robust then dual shields!? Can't jump over walls as easy? Please provide specific Locations where a ha can't jump over a wall/object but another class can. Not as agile? Just like jumping/movement speed. All 5 classes run off the same movement mechanics.... or do medics get +2 dodge skill to bullets. LOL.

[Palerion]

Do you have any data to back up the movement claim? Pretty sure all classes move the same except max.. More robust? whats more robust then dual shields!? Can't jump over walls as easy? Please provide specific Locations where a ha can't jump over a wall/object but another class can. Not as agile? Just like jumping/movement speed. All 5 classes run off the same movement mechanics.... or do medics get +2 dodge skill to bullets. LOL.

Yeah I wondered the same thing. But I think I'm beating a dead horse by now. I think HA is overplayed for a reason, but each is to his own.

[Baneblade]

To be honest, I always thought HA should be two different classes:

Heavy Assault being an LMG using grunt with a deployed heavy machine gun secondary... sort of like making yourself into an eng turret, but with customized attachments and such.

Medium Assault being an AR primary (same weapons as medic) grunt with RPG/ESAV secondary

MA would keep the HA shield while HA would be half as tough as a MAX out of the box, with a significant damage taken reduction when in deployed mode.

HA would not be the same as an Eng on a turret.

Anyway, a little late for such things now.

[Ghoest9]

And Im a bit tired of people acting like the LMG is particularly powerful weapon.

Its nothing like a real LMG compared to a real carbine or assault rifle.
Its basically just the same weapon with a bigger clip.
LMGs are generally slightly better at range - carbines a slightly better at CQC.

Heavy Assault are basically better at sustained firing - ok - how is it a problem balance wise to mix that eith an RPG?

[bpostal]

I was going to say that I'd rather we didn't have classes to begin with and you certed into the shit you wanted to use but THAT would be beating a dead horse. Well, more like beating a dead horse for not putting out after taking it out to dinner and a movie.

Instead I'll mention why I choose HA for most engagements. Vehicles. And the sheer number and availability of them.
As a primarily infantry focused player I need reliable methods of destroying vehicles at range, without getting fucked. So I pack an Annie (Soon to be replaced by the Striker) and it works for just about everything. For places it wouldn't be as great, it's Deci time.
No other class provides the tools, with the exception of the Engy's AV turret (which I have a hard time using at range because my hand shakes), to deal with this threat so HA is my default class.

[Silent Thunder]

Well, more like beating a dead horse for not putting out after taking it out to dinner and a movie.


That is... quite the metaphor you got there.

[Dragonskin]

I think I know the solution. The OP wants HAs to have LMGs and ammo boxes instead of the rocket launcher. Then give the engineers the carbines with the rocket launchers and tank mines. So we make those to 2 changes and guess what game we have? BF3.

Since Infiltrator is basically the same a Recon since they both have motion trackers, sniper rifles and can blend into the environment. Then you have Medics that have the best all around weapons in the games with the assault rifles.. just like in BF3 which are also able to heal others and revive people.

I mean the OP did mention Bi-pods as a feature we are missing for the LMG which is also in BF3 even though he could have mentioned that BF3 also had bi-pods for sniper rifles which we also don't have and both of which are really not needed in my opinion. You don't really need a bi-pod in PS2 since you can't lay prone.. but of course the support class with LMGs could use bi-pods on chest level surfaces in BF3....anyway... Did I get it right?

[Silent Thunder]

I think I know the solution. The OP wants HAs to have LMGs and ammo boxes instead of the rocket launcher. Then give the engineers the carbines with the rocket launchers and tank mines. So we make those to 2 changes and guess what game we have? BF3.

I would damn well hope not. last thing I need is for a tank battle that I've won to be turned into a draw because the driver bailed out and fired a rocket at me through the smoke and flames of his wrecked tank. At least the way it is now one has to choose between actually maintaining their vehicle, or being a "Who has the last laugh" kind of person and sitting in the tank as a HA.

[Dougnifico]

You know, people can talk crap on BF3 classes all they want, but damn were they balanced well...

[Sturmhardt]

I just don't understand placing an LMG and an RPG in the same package. And sturmhardt... What...?

This was my subtle way if saying: You can talk all you want about that topic, this is never going to change.

.sent via phone.

[KodanBlack]

I think the HA is fine as is, but I'd like to see them being able to use an assault rifle as well. I'd be willing to bet that a lot of people would use it on the HA as well as the combat medic. It's a good weapon.

[BIGGByran]

Infil -
**Primary Role) Assault (Sniping, getting behind enemy lines), Support (Hacking)

LA -
**Primary Role) Assault (front line, getting behind enemy lines)
** 2ndary Role) AV (good at getting in close for C4)

CM -
**Primary Role) Support (Revive/Heal, Support fire)

CE -
**Primary Role) Support (Repair, Supply ammo, Support fire)

HA -
**Primary Role) Assualt (front line combatant), Support (Suppressive fire), AV, AA.

@ Palerion
Are you trying to say:

Each class fulfills no more than 2 roles, while the HA fulfill nearly every role. And your wanting to separate the AV and AA from that role so that all classes will fulfill 2 roles max and not have 1 class have the burden of fulfilling so much responsibility/roles?