New AV Launcher feedback

[Merzun]

I make the beginning with the Pheonix.
Some critisism I have from the short moment O tried it in VR.
-it uses flight settings meaning it's inverted if you set flight to inverted. Should have its own setting.
-you can't pull out of camera mode, you have to pilot it until it runs out of gas, in PS1 you could detonate it prematurely
-at least in VR it flies through enemy infantry targets, have to test if it will hit them in the real game, hits friedly though
-not very agile

Currently I like the old one way more than the new one.

[Bags]

If it was very agile and 1 shot infantry it'd be nerfed so fast. even unagile I'm sure it's gonna be a PITA to randomly be instagibbed.

[Merzun]

If it was very agile and 1 shot infantry it'd be nerfed so fast. even unagile I'm sure it's gonna be a PITA to randomly be instagibbed.

Why not simply implement 2 damage types. One vs vehicles and one vs infantry like 600 or so against infantry.

[Dragonskin]

Why not simply implement 2 damage types. One vs vehicles and one vs infantry like 600 or so against infantry.

None of the new rocket launchers are intended for AI use. I think that was more of the point. If you want to play Halo and run around shooting infantry with rockets then any of the default ESRLs will work.

[Ghoest9]

There is no situation where you would be wise to equip the phoinex.

[Kail]

-you can't pull out of camera mode, you have to pilot it until it runs out of gas, in PS1 you could detonate it prematurely

The missile functions as an aircraft, so you can use the 'eject' key to leave the rocket early ('E' by default).

[Merzun]

None of the new rocket launchers are intended for AI use. I think that was more of the point. If you want to play Halo and run around shooting infantry with rockets then any of the default ESRLs will work.

I never said I wanted it for AI use. Bags said if it was more agile it will be op against infantry and he is right. That's why I said to just lower its damage versus infantry via having 2 separate damage types. 600 damage vs Infantry is a two shot. With shields full up again it would even be a 5 shot.

[WSNeo]

The missile functions as an aircraft, so you can use the 'eject' key to leave the rocket early ('E' by default).

Does this detonate the rocket?

[Merzun]

The missile functions as an aircraft, so you can use the 'eject' key to leave the rocket early ('E' by default).

Ah thanks. Tried it out. Makes it definitly more useful.

Does this detonate the rocket?

Nope. It will be a dumpfire projectile with big projectile drop. Well the detonating was usefull when you had a near miss so you could at least have a little splash damage. The new way isn't bad either. If you are sure to hit you can leave early.

[WSNeo]

I see. That sucks that the NC can no longer detonate the rockets, though it sounds like exiting the camera prematurely would result in a faster reload-to-fire time than the normal intended time.

Can anyone else provide any constructive feedback on the remaining two ESLs in the combat environment? (Preferably from the firing and the receiving ends?) I'm currently at work and have not heard much other than "X faction's ESL is bad after trying it for five minutes".

I'm particularly interested in what VS/NC think after engaging day one Striker spam.

[Kail]

I was trying the Pheonix in the VR; Im on the fence how I feel about it, so I haven't purchased it yet on my NC guy. I purchased the Lancer straight away without trying though, and I spent some quality time at Allatum this morning and got a chance to use it a bit.

I could never hit [moving] ESF's with it; It would certainly be possible, but it does still have travel time so it's not a point-and-kill ESF weapon. Charging up I felt was in a good sweet spot, where in actual combat waiting for those three bars to fill could feel like an eternity. Against ground vehicles I really liked it - since I've never used lockon weapons I've had plenty of practice aiming, so this is just easier to connect. What really sealed the deal for me with the Lancer though was being able to kill a sunderer and still have ammo left. It annoyed to me no end with the default rocket launcher that I could empty all ammo into from the rear and be 1 rocket short of blowing it up.

[Chewy]

Lancer-
If iffy on this one. It feels off somehow. Can't quite place what feels off but something just feels that way. I need to see this thing in the field before giving more thoughts.

Phoenix-
Crap. Range is limiting and turn speed is FAR to slow to be of use. The number of places you can use it while still having cover is mind numbingly small. From dicking around the VR room it was hard to hit stationary targets if you weren't already aiming at them with that turn speed and the amount of time wasted before getting to even control the damned thing. Then there's the fact that it CAN'T hit infantry or MAXes! It also takes 2 shots to kill a FLASH. WTF?

Striker-
Scary good. 500m range and enough ammo to kill just about anything alone. Smoke and flares are hard counters but they have only 1 use before a long reload. More than enough time for a striker to do some major damage or get a kill. You can even still fire rockets after the LOS lock is broken for a shot time. This is, in my opinion, clearly the best out of the 3. More damage, 500m range, able to use cover and still fire if needed, and enough ammo to kill (or put on fire) any one target you want without rearming.

[Assist]

Used the Lancer in game - It's not any good by itself. It needs some sort of companion damage, either another vehicle or another Lancer. Overall, very happy with it. The charge up shot fires three projectiles(it looks like) in the tri-force shape(FUCK YEAH!) and it can be a little iffy on long range shots. I'm also not able to hit vehicles at max view distance, guess the range on it is cut off :(

Striker is really dominant IMO. Not so much against ground, but it is ridiculous against air. Before you could still manage to fly around annihilators and burster MAX's, it was just risky. Now you have no choice, if you see that lock-on you have to leave the area. You don't know whether it's a 1-shot launcher or a 5-shot death coming your way.

[typhaon]

I struggle to understand how a paid professional could've balanced and tested these weapons... then determined the current state is appropriate for release.

[Frotang]

Absolutely worthless weapon at the moment. In any situation you may find the Phoenix useful there is already an existing launcher that out performs it. Too much wrong about it to even type=

Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Tapatalk 2

[JesNC]

from PG chat:

tldr: wisenhunt isn't very well liked and is blamed for fucking the phoenix up and giving the upper hand to the TR and slightly to the VS. higby gets a pass.

Only problem here is: Whisenhunt plays TR and the Striker is awfully bad IMO. No dumbfire, 4 sec lock time, what gives?

Tbh the launchers seem pretty balanced overall. Just because people jump to "OMG it's bad"-conclusions without even trying to learn their new toys and without waiting for the few outstanding issues to be fixed doesn't mean the Devs messed it up.

[ChipMHazard]

SNIP

I'd care about those people's opinions if they weren't being douche bags about it.

[Badjuju]

I am watching some one on twitch snipe vehicles from behind a building and around a cliff with the phoenix. I wouldn't call it useless by any means. I had no trouble hitting moving vehicles after getting use to the inertia effects. Air crafts were harder but doable unless your are chasing an ESF which will outrun the rocket. I had success cutting of the paths of ESFs flying around in the VR, but of course limited range to do so. Does it need some love? IDK, I have only used it in the VR. Oh, and it is properly detonating on infantry as well as maxes. Not sure if it is just a VR bug or if they fixed the problem. Two shots infantry I believe, not sure about maxes. I would imagine it two shots them as the charged lancer does.

Striker seems the most effective even if people are disappointed with repeat mechanics. The lock on mechanic is very forgiving. It keeps its lock even if the target is flying behind trees or mountains, at least for a bit. Not sure if it eventually drops the lock.

It will be interesting though to see how the Lancer fairs with groups of people ambushing tanks. People are disappointed with its damage but it seems pretty easy to hit moving targets with no warning. Damage is: Dumb fire rockets > Charged Lancer = Strictly AA or AV lock on rockets > annihilator. If I am not mistaken, correct me if I am wrong.

[Assist]

Only problem here is: Whisenhunt plays TR and the Striker is awfully bad IMO. No dumbfire, 4 sec lock time, what gives?



The Striker is the only one that completely shuts down anything... I'd say it's far from horrible. Anywhere with a TR ground zerg has no enemy air at all. It's not like before where air could stay somewhat close, air isn't even able to do fly by's with how it is.

The Lancer has the weakest damage by a long shot, but it doesn't require any setup time like the Striker and Pheonix.

I think the problem people have with these currently is they're trying to use them effectively by themselves. They're not meant for that, just like the Annihilator is awful by itself. You need cooperation with teammates and all of these launchers excel far beyond the original launchers when it comes to that.

So far today I've found out that you cannot run your tank from two people using the Pheonix and you cannot hang anywhere near two TR using the Striker if you're in any air vehicle.

[p0intman]

Only problem here is: Whisenhunt plays TR and the Striker is awfully bad IMO. No dumbfire, 4 sec lock time, what gives?

Tbh the launchers seem pretty balanced overall. Just because people jump to "OMG it's bad"-conclusions without even trying to learn their new toys and without waiting for the few outstanding issues to be fixed doesn't mean the Devs messed it up.

Really? The striker is horrible? Its pretty much the only one worth using right now.

[Badjuju]

I agree with assist, I think they will all be brutal when used in packs, especially if those packs are coordinating attacks. Allot of complaints in the VR but people still try view things based on how they operate 1v1 in a battlefield with allot of people in it. The point isn't to make other launchers obsolete either (except the annihilator for the TR).

The devs said they wanted feed back though. They want these to be big sellers so i would expect changes to be made if needed. They can only do so much to balance things until they are released as they simply cant see how they perform in huge battles.

[Shamrock]

Lancer, decent range and accuracy, weak damage, huge illuminated beam trail points to users location, no functionality to charge up and hold, it auto discharges at level 3.

Phoenix medium range, camera mode is fun but turn rate of shell requires some pretty fancy work with the mouse, damage is ok. Noticed lots of VS/TR infantry being killed by it, I take it this is a bug.

Striker, was longer ranged than I expected, damage output is good, id say its the best of the 3, unless you hate lock on weapons and absolutely must have dumb-fire capability.

[Assist]

Really? The striker is horrible? Its pretty much the only one worth using right now.

Lancer is good - Really good. It's a point-click-hit weapon. If it had any more damage it would be really OP. If it did any relative damage to infantry it would be OP.

The Pheonix is also good right now. The highest damage of them all and it 1-shots infantry.

For those whining about the Striker... I don't know what game you're playing. It's the only weapon when used in duo/trio can completely deny an area of all vehicles.
So is the striker any good? ~Planetside 2 - YouTube

[Neutral Calypso]

Also worth noting that due to the whole lock-on thing, Striker is the only one that can be foiled by flares/smoke. Oh yeah, and don't forget buying vehicle stealth.

Also worth noting, can't kill maxes with the striker because of the whole lock-on thing.

I reccomend making the game treat maxes as vehicles to fix this bug. :D

[Falcon_br]

Ok, played today 8 hours and here are my veredict:

The Lancer are not too much effective, but there is a big advantage on them.
Normally when I am hit in the back in my prowler, I can turn around and kill the shooter, now I can´t, because the lancer users are VERY, VERY FAR AWAY, near outside the render distance, I think that the lancer users will need to get MAX distance render, or they will snipe your tank with no retaliation, also, ambushes from Lancer are deadly, enemy infantry just come out of no where with fully charged lancer to instantly kill your tank.

Nerf suggestion: slow movement while charging it.

Phoenix, got killed TWICE today with a lancer, outside a vehicle, one I just spawned on a sunderer, and the other the phoenix hit the ground near me, in that second case I was without shields. Also, there is no point anymore to hide your sunderer behind hills, because the NC will kill them with the phoenix, all the time, most of the time there is no way to avoid it, because they fire from cover so they are not easy targets while controlling the missile, also, you cannot move slower them 60 kph with a air vehicle or you will be instant killed without warning (lots and lots of phoenix users on the ground).

Nerf suggestion: Remove splash damage, the phoenix is the best already!

Striker: Yes, killing stationary target with it is marvelous! But now, every lighting got smoke! Today I also saw a Vanguard deploying smokes! I have no idea if it is that powerful, lots of my outfit members bought it, and they say that 5/15 rockets are the same as 1/3, it is not enough missiles, so you must trade your nanoweaver 5 for rocket armor (don´t recall the name), at least is not expensive.
Used a 30 minutes trial with it, 15 minutes I was inside a biolab, real bad decision, but I could kill 2 sunderers that where in the range of the biolab landing pad, with help of course. The last 15 minutes I tried it against air units, couldn´t not fire it, the enemies where warping because it was zerg vs zerg, so I could not get a lock on air vehicles, And the few times I got, I would rather have used the standart ground to air launcher, because they always breaks line of sight when running away. Also, every air vehicle got flares, and now, every lighting got smoke, and some MBT are getting smoke, at least I could kill one flash with it, soon every flash will have smoke.

Nerf suggestion: Don´t nerf it! Make it more lag friendly!

[Falcon_br]

Also, In biolabs, I don´t know for sure, but I am waiting in the end of the long corridors to kill advancing scat maxes, now, a rocket comes before the scat max and hit me in the face!

Suggestion, kill the phoenix in mid air or all maxes campers are F!

[Chewy]

Lancer is good - Really good. It's a point-click-hit weapon. If it had any more damage it would be really OP. If it did any relative damage to infantry it would be OP.

The Pheonix is also good right now. The highest damage of them all and it 1-shots infantry.

For those whining about the Striker... I don't know what game you're playing. It's the only weapon when used in duo/trio can completely deny an area of all vehicles.
So is the striker any good? ~Planetside 2 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQryDsaSO7k)

That video shows what any lock on weapon can do with 10-15 people firing at once. Lancers should be able to do better than that as they have no warnings and may not even render at all. The phoenix on the other hand even with it's far lower range should be able to do the same as well once those vehicles get within 200m-250m (it burns fuel and distance for every turn) .

Im not liking the ESLs to much. Tweaks are needed if you ask me.

[bpostal]

I've only gotten to use the Striker for about a half hour or so but I can tell it's a weapon that's going to be the cause of severe ups and downs.
When you've got a lock it's amazing, the lock is forgiving of a second or two of loss and there is a very satisfying feeling of throwing Five rockets at something while screaming some to the effect of 'Run Charlie Run!'
Then flares/smoke gets popped and I'm a sad panda. The silver lining being the obvious fact that I can get my lock on back before the driver gets flares/smoke back.
Lock on does seem to take for fucking ever though. Trying to stare down a lib or maggie for four or five seconds, dodging explosions does takes the piss out of using it.

We'll see what happens to these in a week or two when the first balancing pass comes. Because you know it's coming.

EDIT: I can personally confirm that the Phoenix is not only able to hit infantry, but can one shot them.

[Badjuju]

Edit: I am back to not liking the lancer. It was fun in PS1 but just isn't fun or viable in PS2. Very drawn out process and you just end up being a target for snipers and Phoenix users.

Ill say as I did before that at closer ranges you are far better off with dumb fire rockets. The damage out put, accuracy aside from bullet drop, and ability to pop in and out of cover is hands down better.

The lancer doesn't start to shine until you get into some pretty decently ranged encounters. Even then you really need to be pretty elevated to make the most of it due to the charge up time and slow overall damage out put. Unless you are with a group of people the advantage of no warning burst damage does not come into play. Your target will simply pull back behind cover unless you have a very good height advantage (bio lab) or there just isn't cover available for them.

Be prepared to be a big target for snipers. They all know where you are after firing it once, even if they missed the initial shot as the trail stays present for a decent amount of time. Your ass also hangs out for a while as you have to steady yourself for allot of shots, and even crouch to maintain accuracy at longer ranges. I take fire with this more than any other launcher, even the lock on launchers strangely.

I don't think the Lancer has a niche where it is more effective than another rocket launcher sadly, and it is less versatile than I would have liked. This is mostly do to how drawn out the process of using it is. Allot of time spent charging and reloading for not much damage. Its strength is engaging ground vehicles at range, but depends on decent elevation to reach its true potential. You have the potential to destroy targets with out warning with a group, however the annihilator has already proven to be quite successful in this, and can cover the air as well.

It's more of a weapon to use for fun. The first day of using it I didn't enjoy it so much, but I think I was just trying to use it in too many situations. I had a much better time with it today aside from being under constant sniper fire as you really have to be still for longer shots if you don't want your laser to go astray.

I haven't decided yet if I like the current mechanics or the PS1 variant better. If your solo or with a few people, I definitely think the PS1 variant is more fun. You do more damage per shot but don't have the ability to charge. There was just far less down time as you were constantly putting shots down range instead of waiting on a charge. I haven't had the chance to group up and use the launcher to see if the ambush quality of it makes up for the slower paced mechanic.

One last note, I have hit several ESFs with it but have yet to get a kill. Two full charges will not take one down, which is unfortunate as it takes allot of work to just land one charged shot. I am sure this has to do with group balance, but It is hard to tell if this is warranted or not as it isn't all that easy to land a fully charged shot.

-----------------------

Tried to test the Phoenix in the field but kept having a forced dumb fire bug on more than half my shots. The range sucks but once you get the feel of it down you can do some pretty good damage with in that range. I don't think it should be a one shot kill on infantry if it is. I had no trouble hitting infantry with it but I also was unaware of how much health they had when I hit them.

The Striker may not feel like anything new, but I find it to be the best of the bunch and the best launcher in the game atm. (based off first impressions)

It is really early to make to many judgments though so well see how things develop and if people find some creative ways to make their launcher shine.

[Mustakrakish]

Overall, I'd say Assist's assessment is pretty accurate. In and of themselves, the ESRLs don't give much of an advantage over the default rocket launchers, but get 2-3 people in your squad with one and you can pose some serious problems for enemy armor.

If everyone in the squad has one, you've just drawn every single enemy pilot, driver and gunner at your location into a hellish nightmare from which the only escape is the cold, merciful embrace of death. Or running away like a frightened chipmunk.


My personal analysis:
Striker Neat trick: if you can set up your line of fire so that infantry is directly between you and the vehicle you're locked on to, it's absolutely devastating. A single rocket can kill a MAX with a direct hit.
Lock-on makes it the most newbie-friendly of the three.
Not 100% positive on this, but the projectile speed feels a little bit faster than other lock-ons.
Damage for each rocket feels a little weak, but considering how much damage a whole clip deals, a damage buff would probably make it OP. If it really needs to be buffed (I don't think it does), increasing the ROF slightly seems like the most reasonable thing to do.
One clip to the rear of an MBT kills it. I have a feeling that the Striker is now the single biggest threat to the well-being of my precious Vanguard. :(
I'm not entirely convinced that it needs a dumb-fire mode. If such a thing were added, I'd say it ought to burst-fire all 5 rockets with ROF slightly faster than single-fire mode. The spread pattern ought to be wide enough that dumb-firing is ineffectual outside of ~10m. That'll allow some short-range surprise attacks on vehicles without making it too spammable. My main concern with a dumb-fire Striker is that it would be like ground-bound lolpodding without forcing the user to spend any resources whatsoever.

Lancer The audio on this is friggin' awesome, as is the charge-up animation. I'm not too keen on the VS aesthetics on the whole, but the Lancer is definitely the most stylish out of the three ESRLs.
On stationary targets at least, the projectile speed and accuracy felt like they were about what I expected. I've read that some VS players have issues on both of those fronts. I'd have to demo the weapon outside of the VR room before I'd feel comfortable deciding between accusing them of baseless whining and grudgingly agreeing with them. If anything about the Lancer needs to be tweaked, speed/accuracy is probably what needs it.
Damage seems a bit weak compared to the default rocket launchers, but seems fair given its theoretical effective range. 3 rear hits to kill an MBT.
Not being able to scope in/out while charging is disappointing. Higby tweeted that this feature was removed since it was the source of a few bugs, but will be added back in later. This is something that ought to be high-priority for the programmers, considering ESRLs have been touted as the quality benchmark SOE will be using for new weapons in the near future. Given the nature of the charge mechanic, I would probably hold off on purchasing the Lancer until the scoping issues were resolved if I played VS.
Glad that it doesn't one-shot infantry. Taking shots to the brainpan from VS Infiltrators and the Saron HRB is frustrating enough, thanks. A headshot will still pop your shields and eat through half of your health though, which seems pretty decent.
Not convinced the Lancer needs better hip-fire accuracy. I mean, c'mon, it's supposed to be a long-range weapon.

Phoenix Overall, a weapon worthy of serving the New Conglomerate's cause. The learning curve seems a little steep, but with some practice it's very effective. Not to mention fun to use! :D My outfit leader played NC in PS1 and he also seems pleased with the current iteration.
I was kind of worried about it having a painfully long reload time, but it actually feels pretty good.
Since the missile is technically an aircraft, you can hit "E" to "bail" and release control of the rocket before it explodes. Very useful if you're confident you'll hit your target, or if you've missed horribly and don't want to sit around like a moron waiting for it to detonate/deconstruct.
The handling on the missile feels kind of clunky, and hitting targets consistently takes some practice. If anything, the projectile speed might be a little too fast. Unless you're pseudo-dumb-firing, the missile's velocity can carry it past your intended target before you can orient it properly, which means the Phoenix has a minimum effective range in the scenarios it's meant for. As a result, the maximum range feels shorter than the actual ~300m.
The hitbox for the missile itself seems to be slightly below the POV for the camera, which is mildly irritating. It only becomes a real issue when you're firing over cover or trying to hit a ground vehicle that's got some elevation on you.
The missile seems to deconstruct with no effect if you get killed while it's in mid-flight.
Slightly disappointed I can't manually detonate the missile.
Very disappointed that it makes missile noises instead of a face-melting guitar riff that dopplers as it nears the target. :(
Honestly, I like the Phoenix as-is (aside from the lack of guitar riff). If any tweaks were made however, I'd love to see the maneuverability of the missile improved marginally. Maybe increase the maximum range to ~350m to compensate for the "safe zone" around the wielder when it's fired from cover.

[MaxDamage]

If it was very agile and 1 shot infantry it'd be nerfed so fast. even unagile I'm sure it's gonna be a PITA to randomly be instagibbed.

It is and it does.

[MaxDamage]

PlanetSide2 2013-03-22 19-43-00-67 - YouTube

[Rothnang]

Basically by now I think that the Striker is the best out of these weapons. The Annihilator has always been overpowered, and this is just a seriously beefed up version of the Annihilator, so what gives?

The Phoenix I am still not really sure on. It has a lot of potential for breaking the game, but other than doing way too much damage to infantry I don't feel like there is anything currently too badly balanced about it.

The Lancer is disappointing. I thought it was going to basically be a sniper cannon with huge range, good zoom, superb accuracy and good damage. The chargin was what I considered the price you pay for amazing firing characteristics. The problem is, according to everything I've read about it it's not very accurate, its scope is dinky, and it has damage falloff that drops its damage to zero by 500 meters, and significantly weakens it before that is even reached. Sooo... basically it has none of the characteristics that would have made it good while still having all of the characteristics that make it bad.

The only thing that made the Lancer seem competitive with the other two weapons in any way was the idea of being able to wail on tanks and aircraft from 700+ meters, which is well outside the engagement range for any other HA weapon, but since that isn't provided you might as well just rock a Decimator, you'll get more bang for your buck.

[Empra]

It's obvious they need tweaked. I would of preferred to wait over the weekend and have them all bug free etc.

What this highlights most to me is public test server is going to be a life saver.

Striker should probably have the damage to the back of tanks and ESF nerfed slightly, before they get hella annoying. As it stands it feels slightly OP to fight against in certain situations. Mostly with ESF though. No way does this gun need dumbfire, if you are fighting maxes in a base roll deci or default. It shouldn't fulfill all roles.

Phoenix could maybe do rebalancing the tradeoffs or something, a minor range buff and a minor flight/handling tweak maybe, missile detonation added and the 1 hit infantry kill needs to be nerfed really soon. It shouldn't make you stand up when firing imo. Also make it not use my inverted setting for my reaver pls. BTW anyone calling for Phoenix one hit to ESF omg are you insane? Nothing should one hit esf except tank rounds. I don't even think the Striker should be as good as it is.

Lancer seemed a little UP, perhaps in ROF more than power, the power hits pretty hard against my VG but the ROF gimps it a lil imo. I was dodging pretty easily and firing my tank towards the line and often killing the person when charging their second shot. I think people need to learn how to use it too but I think the charge time could be tweaked, maybe slightly lower than it is now. I think a cancel shot would be useful but as a penalty it should still take one round from ammo or have an overheat or a minor penalty for doing so that last maybe 1 sec before you can start charging again.

Out of the three I have tried the phoenix. I don't think any need drastic changes it seems but tweaked most assuredly. I have only been damaged by the other two, I am simply presenting my experience of the new ESLs as limited as it is. I'm being up front about that so no one flames me and claims I'm bias or whatever, I want balance as much as next person and I don't want to just win, I don't play for the winning, winning is only part of the fun.

So my views on the other empire launchers are only from a victims perspective, what I've read on the official forums, videos I've watched etc.

[Shamrock]

Check out wristy's review of all 3:-

New Rocket Launchers - The Good, The Bad & The Griefer - Planetside 2 - YouTube

[bpostal]

The Griefer. An apt title for the Phoenix.

[Hamma]

from PG chat:

tldr: wisenhunt isn't very well liked and is blamed for fucking the phoenix up and giving the upper hand to the TR and slightly to the VS. higby gets a pass.

Conclusion: whisenhunt is obviously the only one that is involved in developing weapons. :rolleyes:

[CToxin]

I think the striker needs its lock-on reworked. Shorter lock-on at close range than the annihilator (1-1.5 seconds less) and a longer lock-on at long range than the annihilator (1-1.5 seconds longer). Also the tracking needs to be fixed so that the missiles only track while the target is within the lock-on area of the sight.

Phoenix is fine IMO other than its short range.

Lancer needs to charge faster and have a longer range scope.

[NewSith]

From what I see on the videos, Striker's lock-on range is a bit TOOO high, for what it has for its firepower.

[Sirisian]

Striker is Annihilator 2.0 with higher DPS. We complained about the Annihilator ruining battles and they made a better one essentially. It's hard to know what the devs were thinking other than trying to incorporate broken PS1 mechanics. It's essentially the least skilled weapon in the game. You don't even need to hold your mouse over the target. Just lock and fire in any direction 5 times for easy air kills or vehicle kills. Not much to it. Also makes quick work of air that has flares. They might pop them but with the quick reload you can fire 5 more right after.

Phoenix one hits infantry rather easily. I got killed 6 times now at full health in the middle of large battles while moving. Only weapon worth using against enemy maxes. It has an invisible projectile so the concept of shooting it out of the air is impossible. Not to mention getting hit by mystery rockets with no indication of their direction really.

Lancer's charge mechanic makes it worthless to use. If you don't charge to max you do essentially no damage meaning you have to charge to max to kill anything leaving you in the open since you have to ADS to target. Without zoom it can be hard to land far shots, though most of my vehicle kills with it have been essentially luck as I was charging then quickly found a vehicle. A lot of the time the vehicle you want to hit are gone in the 6 seconds you are charging. Also like the Phoenix it leaves you open for a very long time to snipers as you wait around to charge.

All in all I think they should probably be scrapped or at the very least remove the Striker completely and give the NC a Coil Gun, TR an Anti-Materiel rifle and give VS and TR a version of the Phoenix. I know there's nostalgia with the Striker from PS1, but it just never worked in PS1 to have asymmetrical AV weapons. You can try to justify and mess with the numbers all you want, but the actual playstyles inherent with the weapons will never be balanced.

[Merzun]

Just field tested the Phoenix and I am still not sure if I should buy it. The projectile speed both seemed to be to slow and to fast. It can't keep up with aircraft which is okish I guess as the first one was the same. On the other hand it's to fast. Was hard for me to even hit a fighter with it if it only moved slighly up/down or left/right. Also the lag between firing and taking control of the missile is to much (maybe this is only on my end). It felt like the projectile already flew like 50-100 m till I got command of it. Also the range is very low. Missed several shots just because range was 20m short.

One thing I used the original one for was scouting but the new one has a to small picture to use it that way + to high speed and bad control.

So suggestion to tweak it is to increase its range, make it more maneuverable and lower the speed, give projectile command immediately after firing and don't let the chars get up when firing. To counter the better control decrease infantry damage by a lot.

[TheSaltySeagull]

I am not a fan of the striker lock-on mechanics because its uses the annies horrid tracking method. Often times you will have clear line of sight to the target but the missiles will path themselves into rocks. And you still can not hit turrets unless you are on a higher elevation than them. If they cleaned up the tracking it would be fine and maybe reduce the lock-on time slightly. Giving it a dumb-fire mode would essentially make it the best launcher for the TR period and render all others useless which is not a good thing. I think its lack of dumb-fire is a good trade off for it. Oh and if nothing else at least give it automatic fire so you dont have to click to mouse 5 times which is annoying and serves no purpose.

As I said in the other thread the phoenix is buggy for me. The camera mode does not work half the time(it appears to be related to your FOV settings from what I gather) and will pass through targets occasionally. However when it does work it is working like we all imagined. NC are hiding behind cover and sniping infantry with it and its living up to the annoying legacy of its PS1 counterpart. But I am on the fence with its ability to one shot infantry which is making it even more annoying than in PS1. Granted it is possible to hear the round coming and move to avoid it but still this may need to be changed depending on how many NC decide to adopt the phoenix and start sniping with it. But for the moment they need to address the bugs with it and go from there.

I did not like the lancer at all. Its damage even with 3 charges was underwhelming in my opinion and I do not like that once its charged you have no way to cancel it out if your target dies or moves out of LoS. The only redeeming factor to this weapon is its velocity which while impressive does not offset its other shortcomings. I view this the weakest of the three and honestly don't see any valid reason to use it over the other launchers available to VS.

[CToxin]

So I see everyone here seems to agree that:

Striker is stupid because its lock on makes it both really powerful, yet really weak at the same time.

Phoenix pisses everyone off because it can kill anyone with one shot within 300 m or so, but isn't all that good at killing vehicles.

Lancer is stupid.

[Falcon_br]

Ok, went to the VR training to test the crazy theories from here.
First of all:
The striker cannot kill from behind with one magazine, it need 7 shots in the back of a MBT!
The same amount of time to kill can be done faster with the standart rocket launcher or the decimator or the phoenix.
Also, it cannot one shot kill ESF, need also 8 shots to kill it, the phoenix can one shot kill ESF.
I am really failling to see where the striker is better them the phoenix, because you can fire from cover to snipe the enemy with the striker, you cant dumb fire with the striker. Now the NC got the best max and the best anti max weapon ever!
I no longer try to stay in the top of a tower with AA max, because it is asking to take a phoenix rocket to the face! You could ignore snipers and small fire weapons from long range, now you can´t show your face with a max on open ground or you are dead.
Now the NC got the scat max for close range, and we can´t use maxes on medium range because the phoenix will own us!

[poxon]

I tried the Striker in the VT, Its good but i feel like its no more then an area denial device and wont stop me from changing from my decimator or TR lock on depending on the situation. I don't want to Stoke the dumb fire argument for the striker, but a small fact that everyone seems to of missed...
The lancer has 6 shots, it it can be dumb-fired, rate of fire is as quick as you can press your mouse, and though i agree it could do with a slight damage buff to make stuff blow up quicker (at present it takes a sundy all carried rounds to get burning, and that's from side hits. It would only take an engineer to stop it from going critical). i see this and kinda feel that the dumb fire worry for the striker is being over exaggerated.
The phoenix just feels to much like a game breaker(I've only been on the receiving end mind you). if you where attacking TI alloys on matherson last night while the NC defended, you will understand. 350m around the base was a complete no go zone for vehicles(ground and air). the run for the infantry trying to get to the point was hit or miss as well. i stopped counting after 6 deaths by rocket.

Be gentle, it's my first post :D

[Badjuju]

So the Phoenix is the ultimate AI troll cannon. I am wasting infantry at full sprint left and right with this thing lol. Snipers , AV turrets, and Lancer users have it even worse. I actually started spotting my targets before shooting to make sure i wasn't taking out this poor sniper that I got 5 or 6 times because I felt so bad for him.

It is ok at taking out vehicles, but far more effective against infantry. If i see some one repairing their vehicle, I just take him out instead of hitting the tank. There are abandoned tanks all over Auraxis.

Of course, when I tried using the Lancer today, i was taking phoenix rounds to the face left and right.

Why does this thing one shot infantry lol. It is just babytown frolics.

Striker - best launcher in the game, I think it is fine the way it is.
Phoenix- remove 1 shot infantry kills and give it more range, maneuverability, or both.
Lancer- There is no circumstance where dumb fire rockets or the annihilator is not more viable. It feels clumsy, has a very drawn out firing mechanic, leaves you very vulnerable as you cant strafe and maintain ranged accuracy, and is just boring to use in comparison to its PS1 variant.

[Rbstr]

After a weekend of Lancer use these are my thoughts:
It's got some good points (someone else said they loved the noise, I do too) and I really like the concept (as in I think the mechanics are fine, they just need adjustment) but overall its just not very useful.

It really doesn't put down enough damage to justify the limiting mechanics. I get that we don't want it to just swat aircraft but two charged shots should put an ESF on fire like you'd get with any other dumb launcher. Your entire ammo capacity, in full-charges, unloaded into a liberator can't bring it down. Lame.
Sacrificing so much up-close usefulness should correspond to long range usefulness. Right now, sure you have range, but you make no impact. Sort of "just because you can doesn't mean you should".
This isn't the best analogy, but what if bolt/semi auto sniper rifles did less damage per bullet than an AR to justify their precision and range? They wouldn't be useful at all. That's kind of where we are with the lancer.

Then, at medium ranges, it's far more prudent to to lob the dumb rockets, even with the risk of missing, because you're super exposed when trying to let off a charged shot, as you need to have 4/5 seconds before a shot (charging and moving from cover being impossible without being able to ADS during charge...I know it's supposed to be a bug) and single shots amount to hardly anything.

What I'd do? Either make it do more damage or tweak the mechanics (wouldn't do all of them, just one):
Remove one magazine of spare ammo and make it have the TTK of a deci when fully charged. Buff single-shots so they do maybe 25% of a full thing instead of the supposed 20?
Lower the charge time significantly, like two seconds. Still buff single-shots.
Make the charge persistent. You can charge it up fully. Put it away and take it out and it's still ready to go. That gives you a bit of general utility while keeping the extended-use utility roughly the same.

Also: let us put some magnification on it. All the RL's really, they've got the rails.

I think they did a pretty good job on the Striker. It's actually powerful (ok, maybe a bit too powerfull) but with the expense of counter-ability and no anti-max. If you're a lock-on launcher user it's a pure upgrade. That's OK, as long as the other empire launchers are legitimately powerful options too. Better TTK than any other RL for sure.

The Phoenix is decent, it could stand to do a bit more damage or be a bit more maneuverable. I haven't used it much to judge. One the receiving end we lost a lot of sundy spots, that's ok. But killing infantry in one hit with it is super bullshit and it does happen.

TL;DR - Range doesn't mean much when you can't do anything with it.

[Whiteagle]

Phoenix
Very disappointed that it makes missile noises instead of a face-melting guitar riff that dopplers as it nears the target. :(

...I think even those of us on the receiving end all agree that this WOULD BE AWESOME!!!

...Also, this is so totally not a stealth nerf ploy on its anti-infantry capablilities...:p


So from what I can tell, the only ES Launcher here people are really unhappy with is the Lancer?

...How OK would everyone be if it got a damage buff?
...Like a HUGE damage buff, to the point where it wouldn't be safe for the user to unleash a full-charged shot at close range because the splash damage might kill him as well?

I'm thinking that would make the Striker a Faction-Annihilator Upgrade, the Phoenix a Faction-AV Mana Turret Upgrade, and the Lancer gets to be a Faction-Super charged sniping Decimator Upgrade that might kill you if your not careful...

...So how does that sound?

[Blinklys]

I wonder if the devs are happy with these ESRL, and if they really think they are balanced and working as intended.

Remove OHK on infantry for the Phoenix and for god sake do something to improve the usefullness of the Lancer.

I flat out don't believe Highby when he said the Lancer was his favorite. That's a blatant lie.

[Rbstr]

I flat out don't believe Highby when he said the Lancer was his favorite. That's a blatant lie.

It's pretty cool. It can be your favorite without being the best you know.

[NUKABAZOOKA]

http://oi49.tinypic.com/343pwsj.jpg

[Dragonskin]

I don't think I have seen a VS with a lancer yet on Waterson. Last night there were tons of Phoenixs going off when we went up against DVS on Amerish. Those are pretty sick. I think I got rocket sniped 2-3 times. They looked cool streaking through the sky. They were blue balls of death.

I got the Striker and the thing is nice, but it has a long lock timer and things can be kinda tricky to get the lock on in the first place. Like Flashes and Liberators are noticeably harder to lock than ESFs and MBTs/Lightnings. All in all tonight we sat in a squad at Mesa Comms overlooking Zurvan Amp Station and just took out 20-30 different vehicles and turrets. It was cool seeing all the red volleys of little death balls flying through the sky at night. Probably 5-6 of us with Strikers calling targets. The striker feels pretty balanced. It's not going to kill anything outright without warning.. unlike the Phoenix..

I guess the lancer needs a buff.. no one is using it. I tested it in the VR and it was pretty under whelming. I might get on my VS and trail it tomorrow. I like my Striker a lot, I still have to switch out to my dumbfire when I get inside a base or bio lab.

[Hosp]

Striker - best launcher in the game, I think it is fine the way it is.
Phoenix- remove 1 shot infantry kills and give it more range, maneuverability, or both.
Lancer- There is no circumstance where dumb fire rockets or the annihilator is not more viable. It feels clumsy, has a very drawn out firing mechanic, leaves you very vulnerable as you cant strafe and maintain ranged accuracy, and is just boring to use in comparison to its PS1 variant.

I'm going to go and agree with this.

[NUKABAZOOKA]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AmUavphHXmIxdFhHUzJfN1VYalRnWS0xMnBUdTJpM 1E&gid=25

EXTREMELY telling.

[Assist]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AmUavphHXmIxdFhHUzJfN1VYalRnWS0xMnBUdTJpM 1E&gid=25

EXTREMELY telling.

Population statistics are not the best thing in the world to base balance off of.
Least purchased, least used, lowest score average are all meaningless as they're all completely based on population. The only statistic there that may be considered relevant is the avg. vehicle kills/hr and it's not that far behind the Phoenix.

[Rumblepit]

Population statistics are not the best thing in the world to base balance off of.
Least purchased, least used, lowest score average are all meaningless as they're all completely based on population. The only statistic there that may be considered relevant is the avg. vehicle kills/hr and it's not that far behind the Phoenix.


PHOENIX

528 kills
0.56 kills /m .... a little over 17 hrs
33% accuracy
3,451 shots fired
0 headshots
1,141 hit count
143,394 xp .............. 95% of the kills are via infantry ... i know the guy.

[RSphil]

the one problem i have is the striker lock on is bugged for turrets. it locks on but hits the base and so does no damage. the flight path seems a little off as well. zig zags some times on the way to ground vehicles.

the other 2 seem ok. only used the VS one in the VR training area as im not keen on VS but have the NC and TR rocket launchers on my chars and enjoy them both. the NC one has potential but takes some time to get used to.

[Lonehunter]

Only have time to talk about the Pheonix.

I think the speed you can turn it is balanced.

I look forward to the Night Vision they add that makes infantry harder to see at long distances to make it more advantageous towards vehicles but not nerf it's damage when you do manage to hit an infantry.

My only issue is it's overall DPS. Damage per shot I think it's just as good if better then the Lancer or Striker shots, but it just takes so long to get another shot ready. They've all ready addressed this by a small reload time reduction, but we don't even start reloading till after the explosion.

The Pheonix certainly seems it's most powerful on the back of a Flash. I finally got to rock it with other Flash Pheonix outfitmates and it's great against lightnings and infantry and we started to manage how to take tanks.

[Blinklys]

It's pretty cool. It can be your favorite without being the best you know.

I don't buy it. He is clearly biased and a liar.

[AThreatToYou]

So, guys, who knew the Phoenix would be an anti-infantry weapon? I mean, it murders Lightnings and Prowlers and shit, but still... it's... ridiculous! It's ridiculously good!
TBH I'd buff the other two ES launchers before I nerfed the Phoenix. Then again, the random instagibs that the enemy empires are suffering might be.. too much. Plus I was sniping MAXes apparently safe behind cover; I hope it won't take too long for them to get the message so we don't have to nerf the phoenix.

Then again, I hear the Striker murders vehicles.

[Saintlycow]

My respect for the Waterson NC has grown considerably. I rarely see this weapon, and have only been killed by this gimick once. Knock on wood....

[AThreatToYou]

Well, one time I shot my Phoenix wide, flew it up and around a tower, and shot & killed a MAX on the other side of the tower, above me.

[Whiteagle]

My respect for the Waterson NC has grown considerably. I rarely see this weapon, and have only been killed by this gimick once. Knock on wood....
Oh, well the DVS is certainly grinding for it...

Long Range Instagib rockets to back up their ScatterMAXes?
Wouldn't be surprised if every DVS you see from next weekend on will either be an Engineer with a AV turret, a Heavy with a Phoenix, or a ScatterMAX.

[AThreatToYou]

Oh, well the DVS is certainly grinding for it...

Long Range Instagib rockets to back up their ScatterMAXes?
Wouldn't be surprised if every DVS you see from next weekend on will either be an Engineer with a AV turret, a Heavy with a Phoenix, or a ScatterMAX.

Ah, what glory! *tear*

[Falcon_br]

Today got killed 56 times with playing on Waterson, Indar.
About 30 of those kills was from the Phoenix!
Got killed 7 times with no warning while piloting a mosquito! One hit to kill an esf with a guided missel is bullshit! With the guided ones we can least can use flares!
The other 23 or I was sniping or in an anti air max.
There is no point in using maxes in open ground anymore.

[Varsam]

*Scumbag SOE warns they don't want the Lancer to be an infantry killing sniper cannon*

*makes the Phoenix an infantry killing sniper cannon*

*buffs Phoenix to 1hko ESFs, does nothing to the Lancer or Striker*

Seriously, who the fuck is responsible for these decisions? How do they still have a job?

[Falcon_br]

*Scumbag SOE warns they don't want the Lancer to be an infantry killing sniper cannon*

*makes the Phoenix an infantry killing sniper cannon*

*buffs Phoenix to 1hko ESFs, does nothing to the Lancer or Striker*

Seriously, who the fuck is responsible for these decisions? How do they still have a job?

My wife just woke up because I couldn't control my laughing!

Also, got some data:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AmUavphHXmIxdFhHUzJfN1VYalRnWS0xMnBUdTJpM 1E&gid=25

The Phoenix is more overpowered I ever imagined! I have no idea why they made it better!

[MGP]

*Scumbag SOE warns they don't want the Lancer to be an infantry killing sniper cannon*

*makes the Phoenix an infantry killing sniper cannon*

*buffs Phoenix to 1hko ESFs, does nothing to the Lancer or Striker*

Seriously, who the fuck is responsible for these decisions? How do they still have a job?

This, good sir, goes directly to the PSU Quotes Golden Collection. I applaud.

[Juryrig]

My wife just woke up because I couldn't control my laughing!

Also, got some data:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AmUavphHXmIxdFhHUzJfN1VYalRnWS0xMnBUdTJpM 1E&gid=25

The Phoenix is more overpowered I ever imagined! I have no idea why they made it better!

Well, those figures are certainly eye-opening :eek:

[bpostal]

Psh, just numbers. Besides, if I'm reading this correctly the Phoenix may kill more people but the Striker blows up more shit. At the end of the day, that's what it's all about. How many AMSs can I blow up with this thing.

Sorry VS.

[Dragonskin]

Psh, just numbers. Besides, if I'm reading this correctly the Phoenix may kill more people but the Striker blows up more shit. At the end of the day, that's what it's all about. How many AMSs can I blow up with this thing.

Sorry VS.

I agree. Phoenix is an AI weapon.

[Falcon_br]

Psh, just numbers. Besides, if I'm reading this correctly the Phoenix may kill more people but the Striker blows up more shit. At the end of the day, that's what it's all about. How many AMSs can I blow up with this thing.

Sorry VS.

Well, if you can see the data and understand it, here is what is going on:

Phoenix is an anti infantry weapon, with more kills/minute than any sniper in the game! Even more them most shotguns, of course it is not more them the scat max.

Striker is an anti tank weapon, well, it is lock on only, so there are no other uses, comparing with the other launchers it is better them the other lock ons, but not better them the decimator.

Lancer just sucks.

Unless they turn the Phoenix in an anti vehicle weapon, people will complain about it, because there is no point of giving a faction a fire from cover anti infantry artilhary.

[Dragonskin]

Yea, last night on Waterson server on the Indar map we had NC holed up in Vanu Archives for a long time. It was almost like a Biolab seige. All you saw were blue orbs of death streaking out of the archives hitting infantry while the HA's firing them were tucked away behind windows/walls. I heard several of my outfit mates repeatedly say they were killed by Phoenix missiles. They had lovely scatmaxs up there too incase infantry did actually make it up to the base.

[Badjuju]

Striker idea that may make TR happy and remove it from the toes of the annihilator.

1. Remove its capability to lock on to air craft

2. Give it a trajectory similar to that of a Javelin. Rockets gain altitude then descend on their target from above.

3. Once a lock is acquired, allow that lock to hold even if the target moves behind cover. This would allow the rockets to hit targets that move behind trees and reasonably sized embankments/hills/terrain. Targets would still be able to escape the lock if they move behind cover before a full lock is acquired or of course smoke. Damage would surely have to be reduced as it would be very proficient at hitting its targets when other launchers wouldnt.

4. Keep a six round magazine to support the TR theme and prevent damage from having too much burst (gives a chance to counter repair if more engies than strikers).

5. Allow dumb fire capability. Reduce its effectiveness against infantry and perhaps maxes (no idea what a single rocket would currently do to a max). Adjust fire rate when dumb firing as necessary. Give it horrible hip fire accuracy but good scoped accuracy. Give dumb fire rockets a fast projectile speed allowing it to be reasonably up to par with other launchers at hitting air craft.

Just an idea. Give it a unique mechanic making it more proficient at hitting ground vehicles at the cost of damage. Dumb fire would allow it to be some what useful against maxes and aircraft like the others. Or possibly keep air lock on ability at the expense of loosing dumb fire. All three would be too much I think. What do you think?

I thought cluster bomb that is only effective against armor as well, via panted target or lock on, but I could see this being used by groups to grief groups of infantry trying to hide behind the little cover that Auraxis offers. Or a large enough group could possibly kill large groups of armor instantly.

I also think every faction would appreciate if the phoenix did not one shot infantry, and became more proficient at taking on vehicles (increase range, reduce speed, increase speed but more agile, whatever works best and is fair).

Haven't tried Lancer changes yet.

[Dragonskin]

I'm fine with the Striker as is actually. I like the javalin idea, but if they are going to do that they need to make it for the AA rocket launchers to give them a better purpose. The Striker for TR is unfortunately an annihilator replacement kinda like the Jackhammer should be a shotgun replacement for NC. The annihilator is still useful to NC and VS, so it still has it's own role.

[Falcon_br]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=_AcnJJKSfwA

[Dragonskin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=_AcnJJKSfwA

That is actually hilarious to see it like that.

[AThreatToYou]

He isn't kidding, that's what the phoenix is for, lol.