/suicide

[Babyfark McGeez]

Why is that console command still in the game?

All situations in which it would be needed are covered with "Redeploy".

The only use for it is to:

a) circumvent the "redeploy" timer

b) deny the enemy xp

And both of these actions look "shady" to me to say the least.

I begin to get the feeling they simply forgot to remove a beta command here...Heck just today i saw an in-game broadcast about falling through the game world and explicitly mentioning using "redeploy" to get out of it. No mentioning of /suicide at all, just "redeploy".


So tl;dr: Are you (soe) guys aware you still have a command in the game which has no other use than to circumvent game mechanics? (xp denial/deploy timer)

[i made the same thread on the official forums but figured i post it on here aswell for an increased chance of it being noticed - and i think unlike the "deconstruct" topic there is not really a lot to debate here...the command just has no purpose]

[p0intman]

can you use it while moving? Nope, i dont think so anyway. So what if you fall through the world? I can't imagine that all spots that that used to happen are fully covered.

[Koadster]

Redeploy works while moving now.. and people learn.. Redeploy DOES NOT HAVE A TIMER. Go ingame right now. Hit delete, spawn somewhere and hit delete again. Bam Redeploy works instantly. I think people get Redeploy and instant action confused.

[Silent Thunder]

Redeploy works while moving now.. and people learn.. Redeploy DOES NOT HAVE A TIMER. Go ingame right now. Hit delete, spawn somewhere and hit delete again. Bam Redeploy works instantly. I think people get Redeploy and instant action confused.

When people say the redeploy timer, they aren't referring to a cooldown, but to how after you click "Redeploy", it then counts down from 10(?) seconds before it then starts the respawn timer. Using /suicide thus cuts the redeploy process in half or more.

[Gonefshn]

can you use it while moving? Nope, i dont think so anyway. So what if you fall through the world? I can't imagine that all spots that that used to happen are fully covered.

If that happens you can hit redeploy...

Argument still stands.

[p0intman]

9 second cooldown. sometimes i need to recall to a wg to hit another target -fast-. 9 seconds is a long time to a group like PG, i would rather /suicide and be at sanc 10 seconds faster than wait for redeploy

[Pella]

ESC + Hit log out Instant.

Log back in.

No death, And your back in the warpgate.

5 Seconds.

[bpostal]

9 second cooldown. sometimes i need to recall to a wg to hit another target -fast-. 9 seconds is a long time to a group like PG, i would rather /suicide and be at sanc 10 seconds faster than wait for redeploy

As much as I hate p0intman (on principle, for being a blueberry nothing personal) I agree.
When we need to move, that 9-10 seconds can equate to up to half the time it takes to load a gal. Unacceptable.

[Baneblade]

Suck it up. If 10 seconds is that important to the success of your outfit, you need to make better strategies.

[bpostal]

It's important to my mental health. I need everyone to act and react as quickly as possible in this game. /suicide can be used as a tool to that end and not making use of it is just wasteful.

[Baneblade]

Right, well then I guess we can continue to exploit for the sake of bpostal's mental health.

[bpostal]

Right, well then I guess we can continue to exploit for the sake of bpostal's mental health.

I'm going to disregard the sarcasm. Realize that it's not an exploit and then thank you for taking the time to worry about little ol' me ;)

[Babyfark McGeez]

ESC + Hit log out Instant.

Log back in.

No death, And your back in the warpgate.

5 Seconds.

Two problems with that:

- You cannot choose your destination and end up in a random wg

- For many people the loading times are not that quick

Besides, relogging/disconnecting is as old as network gaming, but that doesn't mean there should be additional functions promoting nothing but cheap gameplay.

I'm going to disregard the sarcasm. Realize that it's not an exploit and then thank you for taking the time to worry about little ol' me ;)

It clearly IS an exploit since they implemented a redeploy timer on purpose to prevent people from spawning elsewhere too quickly.

[p0intman]

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/11/110934/2891002-triple_facepalm_by_spottedheart98464-d3kuyp3.png

Are you really concerned about it that much? Is getting credit for one kill and the exp for it that crucial to you?

[Soothsayer]

Like someone said, /suicide is necessary when you fall through the world to prevent the need to restart a glitched client. If you tried to redeploy while falling through the world, you would hit the bottom before the redeploy went through.

/suicide also gets you back to the WG way faster. My understanding is that you do a redeploy if you have time or you don't want to have an extra death on your kdr. Maybe that's incorrect.

To tell people that they need to change the way they operate because... (?) you didn't actually give a reason why using /suicide as a tool to get people back together at the WG was a bad thing. It works for some people, just because you don't use it doesn't mean it should go.

[Timealude]

i just use /suicide because its faster then the 10 second count down and i dont care too much about KDR.

[Mordicant]

I never suicide to deny Xp just to redeploy so my SL doesn't yell.

[Hamma]

Suicide is easily abused as is redeploy. I don't like either of the features tbh, but it is what it is. Wish they would just bring back some other method of deconstruction like spawn tubes.

[Babyfark McGeez]

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/11/110934/2891002-triple_facepalm_by_spottedheart98464-d3kuyp3.png

Are you really concerned about it that much? Is getting credit for one kill and the exp for it that crucial to you?

Are you really that dedicated to circumvent the redeploy time by exploiting an unnecessary slash command that you feel the need to continue to insist on it being completely fine while also resorting to troll behaviour in your posts?

Like someone said, /suicide is necessary when you fall through the world to prevent the need to restart a glitched client. If you tried to redeploy while falling through the world, you would hit the bottom before the redeploy went through.

/suicide also gets you back to the WG way faster. My understanding is that you do a redeploy if you have time or you don't want to have an extra death on your kdr. Maybe that's incorrect.

To tell people that they need to change the way they operate because... (?) you didn't actually give a reason why using /suicide as a tool to get people back together at the WG was a bad thing. It works for some people, just because you don't use it doesn't mean it should go.

I gave the reason in my initial post. You bypass the deploy timer, that is abusing a slash command which has no other use than to be exploited for the two things i mentioned in my op.
If /suicide is necessary when falling through the world, why did THE OFFICIAL BROADCAST in game mentioned explicitly "redeploy" then and nothing about /suicide?

Aside from that i'm not telling people to "change the way they operate", i'm asking why a command is in the game THAT HAS NO USE that redeploy wouldn't fit.

But honestly, i'm done with this. I perfectly explained why there is no reason at all to have /suicide in the game in my op. If you people really fail to see the issue here you are either trolling or really, really dense.

[Climhazzard]

Suggestion: Make /suicide an alias for Redeploy (http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/make-suicide-an-alias-for-redeploy.106762/)

Like someone said, /suicide is necessary when you fall through the world to prevent the need to restart a glitched client. If you tried to redeploy while falling through the world, you would hit the bottom before the redeploy went through.

A /suicide doesn't actually fix that glitch. You die when you hit the bottom, anyway.

/suicide also gets you back to the WG way faster. My understanding is that you do a redeploy if you have time or you don't want to have an extra death on your kdr. Maybe that's incorrect.

Haven't you been paying attention to the furor over K/D? Nobody cares about K/D, apparently. That makes /suicide an instantaneous Redeploy and nothing else.

It's intended purpose seems to have been to deny your enemy a kill, and judging by the complaints about deconstructing and bailing pilots, quite a few people find that act pretty lame.

To tell people that they need to change the way they operate because... (?) you didn't actually give a reason why using /suicide as a tool to get people back together at the WG was a bad thing.

It does Redeploy's job better than Redeploy.

ESC + Hit log out Instant.

Log back in.

No death, And your back in the warpgate.

5 Seconds.

Logging out should have a timer, too. It was that way in the original game to prevent exactly what you describe.

[p0intman]

Are you really that dedicated to circumvent the redeploy time by exploiting an unnecessary slash command that you feel the need to continue to insist on it being completely fine while also resorting to troll behaviour in your posts?



I gave the reason in my initial post. You bypass the deploy timer, that is abusing a slash command which has no other use than to be exploited for the two things i mentioned in my op.
If /suicide is necessary when falling through the world, why did THE OFFICIAL BROADCAST in game mentioned explicitly "redeploy" then and nothing about /suicide?

Aside from that i'm not telling people to "change the way they operate", i'm asking why a command is in the game THAT HAS NO USE that redeploy wouldn't fit.

But honestly, i'm done with this. I perfectly explained why there is no reason at all to have /suicide in the game in my op. If you people really fail to see the issue here you are either trolling or really, really dense.

I really like your insults and hostility. Very classy.

Anyway...
a) circumvent the "redeploy" timer

b) deny the enemy xp

And both of these actions look "shady" to me to say the least.
circumventing the redeploy timer can be done with other methods than suicide, for whatever its worth. As for denying the enemy EXP, that is a valid tactic as far as I or others am concerned.

Would you like it if I or others just started keeping an extra C4 on our inventories at all times, just incase we need a quick recall? I did that in PS1 a ton. So much so that you can check out my affinity for C4 and boomers in my sig~

infact, bring back the /recall command that doesn't kill you but just teleports you to your sanc/local warpgate after a couple seconds.

[Timealude]

Suicide is easily abused as is redeploy. I don't like either of the features tbh, but it is what it is. Wish they would just bring back some other method of deconstruction like spawn tubes.

I would like the bind feature back, but I can see how currently that could be abused..

[Soothsayer]

McGeez, the "telling people the way to operate" wasn't in response to anything you said, I just went through the replies to the OP in my response in chronological order. It was directed at Baneblade IIRC.

I am being sincere and don't think that I'm a dense person.

If /suicide and /redeploy do the same thing, why not use the better (more time efficient of the two)?

Pointman's suggestion to bring back /recall is something we've all overlooked and would really solve the problem. If we were to have a /recall where the whole operation took ten seconds to go from out in the field to respawned at WG (while at the same time leaving a person somewhat vulnerable for the 10 seconds it took to go through) that would be the best of both worlds, don't you think?

[EDIT: but there would still be a need for some way to get to the deployment screen with a death in the local area so that you can respawn at nearby spawn locations instead of being taken all the way back to WG]

[bpostal]

...

It clearly IS an exploit since they implemented a redeploy timer on purpose to prevent people from spawning elsewhere too quickly.

There is a ton of exploitative shit in the game at the moment. Suicide isn't one of them. /suicide is no different than throwing a grenade, dropping c4/tank mine, shooting a rocket at your feet to get to the redeploy screen faster.

[Climhazzard]

There is a ton of exploitative shit in the game at the moment. Suicide isn't one of them. /suicide is no different than throwing a grenade, dropping c4/tank mine, shooting a rocket at your feet to get to the redeploy screen faster.

Most of these actually use up resources and all of them take more time than /suicide.

[p0intman]

Most of these actually use up resources and all of them take more time than /suicide.

1 c4 takes like.. almost nothing if you're competent.

[Soothsayer]

A /suicide doesn't actually fix that glitch. You die when you hit the bottom, anyway.


It does actually, if you /suicide before you die at the bottom you don't have to restart your client due to it glitching out. It's the best way around that. You're going to die regardless, I never said you wouldn't.



Most of these actually use up resources and all of them take more time than /suicide.


Sorry, I must have missed the point in the official development of PS2 and the shift in prevailing community opinion that we need unnecessary waiting and slower gameplay. Even EVE-Online has agreed that waiting isn't fun.

If there were some overall direction as to why the spawn times are different from a tactical perspective, you might have something. But considering that I can spawn at a sunderer sooner than at a base or my WG, that argument doesn't hold any water. I.e. ranking the quality of spawn locations based on their permanence, longest wait to shortest wait... ams/tower/base/WG.

Instead of calling for the removal of what is considered an exploit by some, why wouldn't you want something constructive like adding a /recall function?

It's not about the resources, its about having a tool that does the job better than the way that you're doing it. Both options are available to everybody, nobody is excluded from using either, they work differently and depending on what you want, they are useful to different degrees in different circumstances.

[Gatekeeper]

Absolutely agree with the OP, this is clearly a holdover from early development that just hasn't been removed yet.

Denying XP to the player that has beaten you is not legitimate play, it's just poor sportsmanship. Grow up, and let them have their kill, they earned it.

As for the redeploy timer - that's a separate issue IMO - and actually I have a solution to suggest. The reason there's a timer is precisely to avoid players using it to avoid being killed by enemies, and as someone pointed out above there should be a timer on logging out for exactly the same reason. The problem is that there's also a timer for spawning - so hitting redeploy means you wait for two timers in a row, which is frustrating.

So to solve this, subtract the 10 seconds you've already waited for the redeploy timer from the spawn timer. Bingo. Now redeploying doesn't take any longer than any other spawn, but that time is front-weighted so it can't be used to deny XP.

[Canaris]

it's a holdover from beta when we didn't have a redeploy to get you out of bugged spots and it should have been removed or disabled at game launch.

[Baneblade]

So to solve this, subtract the 10 seconds you've already waited for the redeploy timer from the spawn timer. Bingo. Now redeploying doesn't take any longer than any other spawn, but that time is front-weighted so it can't be used to deny XP.

It should be noted that the spawn timer itself is much longer for redeploy.

[Gatekeeper]

It should be noted that the spawn timer itself is much longer for redeploy.

Huh. I hadn't noticed that, although it does feel like a long wait. Well, add that to the list of things to fix then, it shouldn't take any longer than a normal spawn.

Whatever the minimum spawn time is (5 secs? 10 secs?) make that the delay when hitting redeploy. Then subtract that time from all the players spawn timers when they hit the deployment screen.

Seems like a good compromise to me. Stops people cheating each other out of XP but still allows for swift, tactical use.

[Babyfark McGeez]

The reason i was so upset about this is that i failed to see (and still fail to see) why two commands for initiating a respawn exist, and one of them bypasses game mechanics for no apparent reason.

I'm open for all ideas and suggestions to fix this, but the vibe i got here was "you can also exploit this and that, so why fix this exploit?". And that attitude kinda pissed me off lol.

The latest replies are more on track for my taste though.

[Frotang]

Well it definitely should be removed from the game as it is a beta command. But as others have stated we need a recall option for quick deployment as redeploy right now is horridly slow and any competitive player is going to choose the faster method, not an exploit. Once removed we can go back to manually suiciding or tking our outfits to get back to the deployment screen quickest.

Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Tapatalk 2

[bpostal]

... manually suiciding or tking our outfits to get back to the deployment screen quickest.

Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Tapatalk 2

They would need to remove the grief accumulated from tk'ing outfit/platoon members. The only time I get weapons lock is when I'm acting as a 'political officer' for my outfit or when we get into an argument that only c4'ing a group of outfitmates can resolve.

Without getting back into the digital pissing contest of exploiting, I would welcome the addition of a /recall command. Especially if it prompts all squad/platoon members to recall if given by the SL/PL.
If the command gives feedback such as "Alpha 4 has disregarded the recall order" to the PL, even better.

[Hamma]

Honestly /suicide disappeared near the end of beta then came back. :lol: not sure if that was on purpose or accidental.