On the new ESRLs

[CToxin]

So I decided after much thought to make this thread about my opinion on the three new rocket launchers. What I like, what I don't like and what I think needs to be changed.

Lancer:
Overall I think that the lancer is pretty well balanced. The only thing I think it needs is a slight (very slight) damage increase. Although arguably the best of the three at killing armor, it doesn't feel all that great.

Phoenix:
Pretty good. Annoyingly better at killing infantry than armor. Not saying it needs a nerf, but of the three it is the most annoying to deal with in a siege (both defending and attacking). Could use a slight damage nerf against infantry with a buff to its range. 300m feels way to short.

Striker:
The most bland of the three because it does exactly what an annihilator does with little to no advantage. A dumb-fire mode with massive drop off (more so than the other lock-ons) with a narrower lock-on angle would be nice. At the same time a buff to annihilator range or something like that would keep them distinct.

[Bags]

They're called ESAV.

Empire Specific Anti-Vehicular.

[ChipMHazard]

They're called both... Even though "rocket launcher" doesn't make much sense.

[Bags]

In the 6 years I played PS1 I never saw them (phoenix, striker, lancer) once referred to anything but ESAV.

[Blinklys]

Striker:
The most bland of the three because it does exactly what an annihilator does with little to no advantage. A dumb-fire mode with massive drop off (more so than the other lock-ons) with a narrower lock-on angle would be nice. At the same time a buff to annihilator range or something like that would keep them distinct.

It's an annihilator on steroids is what it is.

[ChipMHazard]

In the 6 years I played PS1 I never saw them (phoenix, striker, lancer) once referred to anything but ESAV.

Things have apparently changed in that department:p

[Bags]

New people don't get to change old terminology. :(

[Neurotoxin]

ESAV is a better term. Rockets are categorically dumbfire only, meaning only the Lancer qualifies as any sort of Rocket Launcher among the three. Anything with any guidance system is a missile.

Lancer needs to hit like the S1 at close range, it can do its current damage out at the max range (550m or so). It is something I could see a player using exclusively for AV, but right now it is still a bit situational because the charge-up increases vulnerability and reduces timing opportunities.

Phoenix is kinda situational. It hits hard enough, but the range of 300m means players really have to be close to make contact. The fact that the minimap doesn't follow the missile makes it very disorienting (at least for me) to track targets after the missile has flown for a second in a direction that isn't straight at the target. Being able to hide behind cover, and launch missiles constantly without fear of being hit, is definitely the biggest advantage of this weapon.

The striker is awesome, though again not someone would necessarily carry everywhere. I expect within months for EVERY TR to have ejection systems and a striker, to do the PS1 style bail-and-lock technique against enemy aircraft who shoot them down. I can see it not being carried everywhere, due to the inability to fire as a dumbfire weapon.

[ChipMHazard]

ESAV is a better term. Rockets are categorically dumbfire only, meaning only the Lancer qualifies as any sort of Rocket Launcher among the three. Anything with any guidance system is a missile.

Indeed. Blame the devs for the silly name:p

[Hamma]

SOE has called them Empire Specific Rocket Launchers, so pretty much that's what they are. :P

[CToxin]

I can agree that the Striker is a juiced up annihilator. The main problem is how lock on works in this game.

What about make lock on range based? the closer something is the less time it takes to get a lock on. At long ranges it would be longer than the annihilator, while at close range it would be less than the annihilator.

I also never played PS1, no matter how much PS2 thinks I did. Can someone enlighten me as to how the Striker worked in PS1?

[Rothnang]

After testing out the Lancer I have to say it's pretty horrid. The chargeup time is way too long to make effective use of it, because the couple seconds it takes are plenty enough for your target to be gone, dead or otherwise no longer viable.

Especially the fact that it takes 3 fully charged shots to take down an ESF is a joke. It's impossible to hit an ESF twice with this weapon, because an ESF can fly well out of your effective range in the time it takes to charge a second shot, let alone a third. With the charge time the way it currently is it should take 1 shot to kill an ESF, because that's how difficult it is to hit one, since you basically have to be able to essentially predict where the enemy will be 6 seconds down the road to have a fully charged shot going off at that exact time.

You can't hold the charge in the weapon until you're ready to fire, so every single successful shot with the Lancer ultimately boils down to you trying to guess at whether or not there will be a viable shot for you to take in 6 seconds. That's damn near impossible when you're in a real battle and not just shooting at stationary targets and it's damage just doesn't justify the difficulty of using it currently, especially against infantry or aircraft.

[Bags]

SOE has called them Empire Specific Rocket Launchers, so pretty much that's what they are. :P

And RIOT tried to name AOS (dota style games) "MOBAs". :lol:

Just because a company says it doesn't mean it's true. Unless the lancer is a rocket launcher.

[NUKABAZOOKA]

Lancer:
Overall I think that the lancer is pretty well balanced. The only thing I think it needs is a slight (very slight) damage increase. Although arguably the best of the three at killing armor, it doesn't feel all that great.


You might think it works well inside the sandbox that is VR, but real world application leaves it extremely lacking. I'd trade it in for the Striker in a heartbeat due to ease of use and power.

[Baneblade]

I found all three to be relatively underwhelming considering all the hype.

[Koadster]

I found the lancer the best. Sure the Striker has good dps but the lock on is so boring(I wish we had a camera guided launcher like the AT4 that shoots 5 swarm missles) and can be countered with smoke/flares.. The lancer you can hid on a hilltop or behind rocks.. Pop a 3shot into a tank and exfil to another spot and snipe the tank again. With the canyons in lower SE indar ive seen whole tank columns halted because a small squad with lancers kept them pinned down.

You might think it works well inside the sandbox that is VR, but real world application leaves it extremely lacking. I'd trade it in for the Striker in a heartbeat due to ease of use and power.

its all about application, get a squad with lancers and find a really good chokepoint, enjoy butchering plently of tanks.

[MrVicchio]

I have the striker, and frankly my beef is that I have to pickle off 5 rockets... that takes time, leaves me exposed and I don't really see the trade off in terms of damage. A little combo damage would be nice to balance the fact I have to stand out there so long to lock, and then fire 12345. May not seem like it's THAT long in the VR, when tanks, AC and snipers are firing at you... it's an eternity.

The VS one.. never saw a death to one, don't know have nothing to say.

Dying in a biolab to a phoenix, repeatedly. Dying to phoenix fired from behind cover...

That's damned annoying. VERY annoying.

[ChipMHazard]

Seems like the Phoenix has become more of an AI weapon than an AV, as was the point I believe [To be an AV weapon that is].

[Corvo]

Rolled with a [FU] public platoon yesterday (all kinds of props for you guys btw) on Esamir and saw plenty of action with the new launchers.

Striker is good at dispatching enemy armor in groups, especially from walls and tower/biolab landing pads. No surprise here.
Phoenix is good at killing infantry. VERY good. Pre-phoenix you could spam lock-on launchers and engineer AV missiles from landing pads safely if you were smart enough to stay away from the edge of the platform. Now you get destroyed in seconds if you are facing an organized enemy and try anything like that. Personally, I never liked the idea of staying on an open platform anyway, so I don't really care. For some people though it was a game-changer; defending towers from vehicle spam suddenly became a lot harder.
Lancer - well, can't say much about that one aside from that it has an effect that's very visible at night, especially when used in groups.

Oh and another thing - ALL new launchers have a more visible missile effect that's faction specific; Phoenix missile is glowing blue, Striker's red and Lancer is a long cyan laser beam. Unlike all previous launchers you can instantly tell what faction it belongs to.

[Sonny]

Has anyone noticed that the ESRLs have drastically influenced the battlefield? I know a few people were scared before they came out that they would be over powered. Although I've seen a few strikers, lancers and phoenixes around, I haven't noticed that they are particularly battle changing weapons.

But maybe it's just because there aren't many of them yet. Maybe in a few weeks everyone and their dog will have them, then the crying will start :).

Sonny

[Whiteagle]

Is there any hard data on the ESAVs?
I'm debating whether or not I want to invest the Station Cash into the Striker after I already did so with the Annihilator...

[WSNeo]

SOE has called them Empire Specific Rocket Launchers, so pretty much that's what they are. :P

SOE also called the Hex System a good idea, so that's pretty much wha- OH WAIT!!

:lol:

[Koadster]

Seems like the Phoenix has become more of an AI weapon than an AV, as was the point I believe [To be an AV weapon that is].

Its too good, its AI ability needs nerfing since the Striker has 0 of that ability and Lancer has limited AI. I was sniping people at the crown while I hid at TI Alloys today... Although it was very funny, it was pretty cheap.

[Rothnang]

its all about application, get a squad with lancers and find a really good chokepoint, enjoy butchering plently of tanks.

The other ESLs are still better. A squad of Strikers is way more deadly than a squad of lancers.

[Baneblade]

Its too good, its AI ability needs nerfing since the Striker has 0 of that ability and Lancer has limited AI. I was sniping people at the crown while I hid at TI Alloys today... Although it was very funny, it was pretty cheap.

I'm pretty sure that there is more than 300 m between them. But I could be in error since I spend absolutely no time within a km of the Crown.

[Gatekeeper]

Agree that the Lancer is pretty worthless right now (Rothnang's earlier post summed it up very well). I was really looking forward to it returning, and was planning to definitely buy it - but let's just say I'm very glad I decided to trial it first ;)

As for the other ESAVs, I haven't really seen the Striker used much yet, so I can't comment on that, but it sounds fine. The Phoenix seems fine against vehicles, useful but not overpowered - but it's very annoying when used as an AI weapon (predictably enough to everyone except SOE, apparently). Nerf its AI power and it should be fine, I reckon - maybe give it a small buff to range to compensate.

[Whiteagle]

The Phoenix seems fine against vehicles, useful but not overpowered - but it's very annoying when used as an AI weapon (predictably enough to everyone except SOE, apparently). Nerf its AI power and it should be fine, I reckon - maybe give it a small buff to range to compensate.
As someone mentioned in another thread, it needs to make a face melting Guitar Riff as it flies through the air...

That would provide us on the other end with sufficent warning, while both being awesome and not screwing around with the code to much...

[Hamma]

Supposedly the Lancer will be buffed.

[Dragonskin]

Supposedly the Lancer will be buffed.

Good because you know it has to be pretty bad if other empire players are saying.."yea, it could use a buff" instead of "nerf it!"

[KesTro]

Honestly the Lancer is my most hated out of all three of them. I get sniped with that thing too often. There seems to be a bug where the cyan laser isn't showing where it's coming from.