When shotguns are nerfed witll they nerf to old ones to keeps the pumps attractive?

[Ghoest9]

It hard to believe that they wont nerf the pump shotguns.

But Im wondering if they will nerf the old shotgun too - even though they were fine since the beginning of the game. Just to make sure the newer pumps are more attractive.


EDIT:
https://twitter.com/mhigby/status/317314629032374273

I called it

[DeltaGun]

The other shotguns are good, you just have to be even closer for them to be effective. They could get away with making Pump doing the same damage as the others but having greater range, imo.

[moosepoop]

The other shotguns are good, you just have to be even closer for them to be effective. They could get away with making Pump doing the same damage as the others but having greater range, imo.

i agree. the max shotgun damage should be 2 hit kill, then it will be balanced.

[Snydenthur]

It hard to believe that they wont nerf the pump shotguns.

But Im wondering if they will nerf the old shotgun too - even though they were fine since the beginning of the game. Just to make sure the newer pumps are more attractive.

For me it's hard to believe they would nerf them, since nobody would use them anymore. Even at the current situation they are easiest gun to counter. For me at least, since I used pump action a lot. Just staying outside of 0-5m range makes it easy to kill shotgun user (unless they use auto or semi-auto variant since that gives them a bit more range and are more forgiving to the user).

People still have to try the shotguns in real situations. Yes, it's the best tool when you can surprise the enemy from behind or people just run around the corner, but when you are a tiny bit cautious, there's nothing they can do to you. 99% of the indoor combat can easily be done outside of shotguns sweetspot range.

And for the record, I stopped using shotguns, since carbines just do nearly every situation better, so I don't really care about them nerfing them. But since I hate whining because of people aren't even trying to counter something, I really hope they won't nerf the shotguns out of existence. They also bring more variety to the battles and that's what keeping the game from becoming boring.

[PredatorFour]

i agree. the max shotgun damage should be 2 hit kill, then it will be balanced.

I use pump shotty (phobos) with slugs and i kill in two hits. Doesn't stop me getting hate tells like last night though.

Thing is, you pick your weapon which is one you really like and are used to. Most weapons when used right with good aim are capable of dropping the enemy, so moaning that something is wrong cos they killed you when you have a great gun yourself is stupid imo. I wonder what these guys would've thought about the jackhammer on ps1 ...



IF they did nerf the pump shotgun i would want my 1000 certs back for sure, i got that because of how it is now. You wouldn't sell someone a product they liked then expect them to like it when you change it a month later. I expect this to be a big problem with the sale of weapons/nerfs for soe.

[KodanBlack]

i agree. the max shotgun damage should be 2 hit kill, then it will be balanced.

I disagree, since the opponent can easily gun you down in the pause between shots while using the pump. It would make the pump shotgun almost useless compared to the semi and auto shotguns.

[JesNC]

IMO they need to rehaul the shotgun mechanics completely, because there are a few key balance dials missing from them at the moment - most importantly a worthwhile accuracy stat.

Currently, shotguns (except slug ammo, but that's another story) are only diffentiated by damage, RoF and mag capacity. Cone of fire and spread don't really matter as far as buckshot at typical indoor ranges is concerned.

Additonally, I feel shotguns currently don't really reward aiming skill - again, except for slug ammunition. It's one thing to kill people <1 second while actively working for it (headshots etc), but an entirely different beast to simply point & click into the general direction of the enemy to do the same.

IMO they need to tighten the spread on all shotguns to the one on the JH at minimum and work out balance from there, reducing damage per pellet, tweaking damage drop off, recoil, CoF etc...

[Ruffdog]

So change being a large threat <10m and no threat >10m to

small threat <10m and no threat >10m


Okay. Then I want the same with ScatterMAXes

[Snydenthur]

Additonally, I feel shotguns currently don't really reward aiming skill - again, except for slug ammunition. It's one thing to kill people <1 second while actively working for it (headshots etc), but an entirely different beast to simply point & click into the general direction of the enemy to do the same.

Actually, they do reward aiming skill. You can't just run and shoot at the general direction. Since the range is so close and the shotgun shoots a spray of pellets, you'll have to hit an enemy to the middle of the torso and fast, usually while the enemy is running right past you. I've seen enough players that suck with their shotgun, even at the shotgun range, so it's not like you don't need any skill.

Slug ammunition, while it needs a bit more skill (mostly because of low bullet velocity), is useless though. It's too inaccurate to use outside of vr since you'll have to stand completely still while shooting. That is a certain death in this game even for a player that has aimbot.

[Baneblade]

I'd rather have a Gauss MAX anyway.

[ThatGoatGuy]

All of you who said that they need to make pumps 2 shot kill are retards. They specifically made it so that it would instagib people BECAUSE IT IS PUMP. It would need a higher DPS because it only fires ONCE PER SECOND.

As for the thing with SOE and nerfing stuff a month right after release is cause they got their money. They are satisfied. Therefore, they nerf it to lube up their next release. If you aren't aware of SOE has been doing this since the beginning, you are clearly a noob.

[Ghoest9]

IMO they need to rehaul the shotgun mechanics completely, because there are a few key balance dials missing from them at the moment - most importantly a worthwhile accuracy stat.

Currently, shotguns (except slug ammo, but that's another story) are only diffentiated by damage, RoF and mag capacity. Cone of fire and spread don't really matter as far as buckshot at typical indoor ranges is concerned.

Additonally, I feel shotguns currently don't really reward aiming skill - again, except for slug ammunition. It's one thing to kill people <1 second while actively working for it (headshots etc), but an entirely different beast to simply point & click into the general direction of the enemy to do the same.

IMO they need to tighten the spread on all shotguns to the one on the JH at minimum and work out balance from there, reducing damage per pellet, tweaking damage drop off, recoil, CoF etc...

You are wrong.

Currently the fast reload semi-autos have much tighter spreads than the large clip semi-autos and the autos.

Also the pumps have a tighter spread.

[Ghoest9]

It would need a higher DPS because it only fires ONCE PER SECOND.

.
They specifically made it so that it would instagib people BECAUSE IT IS PUMP. .



Umm what does that mean.

1 its not actually a "pump" - its just slightly slower semi-auto.

2 Where did this crazy idea that pumps have more pellets come from?

It would need a higher DPS because it only fires ONCE PER SECOND.

.
That isnt true.

[isilyan]

All of you who said that they need to make pumps 2 shot kill are retards. They specifically made it so that it would instagib people BECAUSE IT IS PUMP. It would need a higher DPS because it only fires ONCE PER SECOND.

As for the thing with SOE and nerfing stuff a month right after release is cause they got their money. They are satisfied. Therefore, they nerf it to lube up their next release. If you aren't aware of SOE has been doing this since the beginning, you are clearly a noob.


Wrong 2 times per second:rolleyes:, plz get your facts stright before posting bro:(
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AuOojvNLMApVdEtIU1NKenEzNzZOSWNaanFqSUVxLW c&type=view&gid=12&f=true&colid0=16&filterstr0=VS&colid1=17&filterstr1=SHOTGUN&sortcolid=-1&sortasc=true&rowsperpage=250

[ThatGoatGuy]

Even if it fires twice a second, you can fire what, like 4 or 5 a second with a shotty like the nighthawk?

As for the whole "its just a slower semi auto", the name is pump shotgun. You pump it, and it's loaded by individual shells, not by magazine. "More pellets"... Wut? I didn't say anything about pellets. I was referring to Damage Per Second (DPS idiot).

[Simo]

I think the community needs to clarify their message here. Are you talking about shotguns or PUMP shotguns? Because most of the bitching seems to be about Pump-guns but the posters rarely differentiate, unlike the 1st post. Even some of the replies in here don't claify. They simply state "shotguns" as if the auto and the pump are the same. It seems to me the biggest gripe is the 1 hit kill. Yet the posts often read "shotguns ruin the game." However we didn't see these kind of posts prior to the pump-guns. So I'm assuming that some people still can't tell the difference yet suddenly noticed they got 1 shot.

I do not have a pump-gun. I see them often but rarely die to them, maybe once per play session. But there seems to be a ton of outrage against them. I do expect them to be nerfed at some point. Hopefully it's done in a way that just limits its effective range or increases damage fall off over range. I'm sorry but if the guy is pushing the barrel against your chest your probably deserve a 1 shot.

Those of you who think you'll get a refund if they nerf the pump-guns keep dreaming. Ask every Magrider, Prowler, or ESF pilot about their refunds. They are always balancing the game. It will continue to happen. If you don't know that by now you will have many disappointments in life.

[CasualCat]

They could change pumps by making them more versatile.

In other words let the pump user once certed into slugs (and maybe future ammo options?) be able to change their chambered ammo type on the fly or even change out the entire magazine.

[Ghoest9]

Even if it fires twice a second, you can fire what, like 4 or 5 a second with a shotty like the nighthawk?

As for the whole "its just a slower semi auto", the name is pump shotgun. You pump it, and it's loaded by individual shells, not by magazine. "More pellets"... Wut? I didn't say anything about pellets. I was referring to Damage Per Second (DPS idiot).

1
The Sweeper fires 250 times per minute.

The Claw fires 120 times per minute.

The Piston fires 300 times per minute.

Dont rant about numbers if you are going make up the numbers.


2
And I dont really care what its called - it IS a semi-auto in actuality.




Seriously just be quite. Not because your opinions are silly - but because you state falsehoods as fact over and over.

[Binkley]

2 Where did this crazy idea that pumps have more pellets come from?


The pumps do have more pellets, at least according to the weapon data sheet linked ITT.

Pump 143 (damage) x 10 (pellets) = 1430 DPShot (insta-death) if all pellets hit (CQC)
All other SG are 143 x 6 = 858 DPShot (not insta-death) if all hit.

[CasualCat]

1
The Sweeper fires 250 times per minute.

The Claw fires 120 times per minute.

The Piston fires 300 times per minute.

Dont rant about numbers if you are going make up the numbers.


2
And I dont really care what its called - it IS a semi-auto in actuality.




Seriously just be quite. Not because your opinions are silly - but because you state falsehoods as fact over and over.
Didn't he say 4-5 times/second?

Auto shotgun rate of fire: 300RPM *1min/60sec = 5 Rounds/sec
Semi-auto shotgun rate of fire: 250 RPM * 1/60sec = 4.167 rounds/sec

The pump shotguns truly are pump actions not semi-autos. After each shot, your character actuates the pump chambering a new round and extracting the empty hull. You can see this most easily if you fire till empty. The animation reloads the magazine then actuates the pump extracting the last empty hull.

quick and dirty video:
http://youtu.be/llXxfY5XFFY

The semi-autos chamber the rounds/extract the empties for you (hence the term semi-automatic).

[Juryrig]

The pump shotguns truly are pump actions not semi-autos. After each shot, your character actuates the pump chambering a new round and extracting the empty hull. You can see this most easily if you fire till empty. The animation reloads the magazine then actuates the pump extracting the last empty hull.

The semi-autos chamber the rounds/extract the empties for you (hence the term semi-automatic).

Umm, no, they're all just pixels on a screen.

Hit the mouse button, the system calculates a hit/miss and damage calculation whilst playing an animation. Assuming you keep mashing the fire button, there's a pause, the length of which is determined by the weapon stats, during which the system plays a further animation, then the cycle repeats itself with another hit/miss and damage calculation.

What the animation actually shows is...fluff. Hence the comment about the pump actually being semi-autos. Functionally they are. You press the fire button, release it, press it again. They are distinguished from fully auto weapons in the need to release the fire button and re-press it between rounds.

Now, if you had to hit the fire button, then had to hit another key to operate the pump action, then hit fire button again to fire the next round...then, functionally, it wouldn't be a semi auto.

[PredatorFour]

Slug ammunition, while it needs a bit more skill (mostly because of low bullet velocity), is useless though. It's too inaccurate to use outside of vr since you'll have to stand completely still while shooting. That is a certain death in this game even for a player that has aimbot.


I beg to differ.... /disagree;)

[CasualCat]

Umm, no, they're all just pixels on a screen.

Hit the mouse button, the system calculates a hit/miss and damage calculation whilst playing an animation. Assuming you keep mashing the fire button, there's a pause (also determined by the stats) wuring which the system plays a further animation, then the cycle repeats itself with another hit/miss and damage calculation.

What the animation actually shows is...fluff. Hence the comment about the pump actually being semi-autos. Functionally they are. You press the fire button, release it, press it again. They are distinguished from fully auto weapons in the need to release the fire button and re-press it between rounds.

Now, if you had to hit the fire button, then had to hit another key to operate the pump action, then hit fire button again to fire the next round...then, functionally, it wouldn't be a semi auto.

Yes based on user control inputs they're slow semi-autos.

Would gameplay really be enhanced by an added button to cycle bolts for bolt/pump action weapons, or do we accept that they're attempting to mimick that mechanic by limiting your clickable rate of fire without making the interface clumsy?

[Juryrig]

Yes based on user control inputs they're slow semi-autos.

Would gameplay really be enhanced by an added button to cycle bolts for bolt/pump action weapons,

No. It would be a total PITA

or do we accept that they're attempting to mimick that mechanic by limiting your clickable rate of fire without making the interface clumsy?

Yes.

I was just expanding on the assumed reasoning behind the earlier comment about them actually being semi-autos. Apologies if it came off as being dickish.

[Entaro]

If the pump isn't a OHK, then its a worthless piece of trash. If it needs re-balancing (I'm not sure it does, given its limitations) then increase pump reload time... don't make it 2 hit kill with longer range. For a OHK you h ave to be pretty much on center mass anyway. If you shoot at the arms and half the pellets miss you are boned by any half competent rifle/carbine user.

They also need to fix the reloading sequence for pump action, since the animation shows you putting in 1 shell at a time, except that you can only interrupt the reloading animation by clicking the fire button, which has a delay. So if I am at 0/5 and there is an enemy around the corner I want to kill quickly, I have to either wait for 5 shots to reload or try and estimate the correct timing for a 1 shot reload cancel.

[ThatGoatGuy]

1
The Sweeper fires 250 times per minute.

The Claw fires 120 times per minute.

The Piston fires 300 times per minute.

Dont rant about numbers if you are going make up the numbers.

Are you too incompetent to actually read my post? I clearly stated that the auto shotties have more than double the rof of the pumps.

Apologies if it came off as being dickish.

Kinda were :P

Making it to a two hit kill with longer range is just foolishness. It wouldn't be really a nerf, just a sidestep. And like Entaro said, it would be entirely useless. The nerf would have to be something involving reload time or pump time. Doing anything to the range would also be crap, because the range is already fairly limited.

The crap from semi auto-ness is basically based off of technicality. Technically, everything in the game is semi auto. No need to be a douche about it. You play the game because of the way it looks and gameplay, and in game it looks like a pump action.

[Dragonskin]

Shotguns are OP in real life too. Why do you think Germany tried to get them banned under the laws of warfare?

Thankfully shotguns in game don't behave like real shotguns.

Anyway, the pump shotguns are kinda OP in PS2 due to how often you are in CQC environments. I bought one recently and you can mow down people before they have time to react. It's a great feeling. It must be how NC MAX users feel. :D Outside of CQC ranges they drop off drastically and you are better off with any other gun. Not sure how I feel about them exactly because every faction has access to them and you have to buy a shotgun regardless unless you are a NC MAX. SMGs still have their own special place since they can be silenced and can compete at slightly further ranges than the shotguns.

Really though if you don't have a shotgun or smg in cqc you will have a hard time now. Those 2 weapon types changed CQC a lot.

[TheSaltySeagull]

If a pump shotgun nerf was to happen then the auto/semi auto ones would be nerfed as well to keep the pump an attractive option. For example the pump is a two shot kill and the others are now three shot kills. Because aside from its damage and pellet spread there is no advantage to the pump as opposed to the others.

Personally I would remove them and refund the SC/certs. The original set of shotguns was sufficient and there was no real need to introduce the pump action version and so far all it has done has caused problems. But then again I am not a fan of OHK small arms especially in a large scale game like planetside were you can run into dozens of people running around with them.

[Dragonskin]

If a pump shotgun nerf was to happen then the auto/semi auto ones would be nerfed as well to keep the pump an attractive option. For example the pump is a two shot kill and the others are now three shot kills. Because aside from its damage and pellet spread there is no advantage to the pump as opposed to the others.

Personally I would remove them and refund the SC/certs. The original set of shotguns was sufficient and there was no real need to introduce the pump action version and so far all it has done has caused problems. But then again I am not a fan of OHK small arms especially in a large scale game like planetside were you can run into dozens of people running around with them.

I can agree with this. If they are going to nerf the pump shotguns then just remove them and give a refund. Maybe take the pump animation and put it on the semi-auto ones to retain the feel of a pump shotgun. The original shotguns were fine.

[Ghoest9]

The pumps do have more pellets, at least according to the weapon data sheet linked ITT.

Pump 143 (damage) x 10 (pellets) = 1430 DPShot (insta-death) if all pellets hit (CQC)
All other SG are 143 x 6 = 858 DPShot (not insta-death) if all hit.

Sorry if I didnt make that clear.

I was referring to real life pump shotguns - my point being there is no intrinsic reason a pump shotgun should do extra damage.

[Juryrig]

The nerf would have to be something involving reload time or pump time..

Metro 2033 (Uboinik automatic shotgun) - YouTube

No, not actually suggesting this. The discussion just reminded me of it....now THAT was a frustrating reload sequence. :doh:

[ThatGoatGuy]

Sorry if I didnt make that clear.

I was referring to real life pump shotguns - my point being there is no intrinsic reason a pump shotgun should do extra damage.

I don't know if you realize this is a PSU forums "Planetside 2 Discussion", so of course I would be referring to planetside :P. I don't know the stuff about pellets and stuff in game, neither irl.



No, not actually suggesting this. The discussion just reminded me of it....now THAT was a frustrating reload sequence. :doh:

I can see how this would be irritating. I'm not referring to having something like that, something just a longer circle rotation. No new animations, just simply "heavier shells" so to speak.

[Palerion]

My god. I really don't see this nerf as something "necessary".

Pump action shotguns excel in close quarters. I'm fine with how they are and rarely die by them. When I do, I deserve it. You should be scared to get close to a guy with a pump action. I would be pissed if I blew money on a pump action and they nerfed it. Typical though, release it powerful to get the sales up.

[Ruffdog]

What pisses people off I think is the room clearing ability. Its not the first shell but the second, third, fourth etc.
A great shooter who doesn't miss can conc grenade a room and ruin a squad. A crap shooter can miss all 5. Its a polarizer. And its a rush. You can engage in one area extremely well and not even bother shooting in anger in another.

Its a sidegrade in the truest sense.
I say leave it the fuck alone.

[ThatGoatGuy]

I say leave it the fuck alone.

Agreed. Sad thing is that SOE doesn't give in to that shit.

[Ghoest9]

https://twitter.com/mhigby/status/317314629032374273

I called it - nerf all shotguns to keep the new ones attractive - even though the old ones were fine for the 4 months.

[Snoopy]

How does nerfing all shotguns keep the new ones attractive? The attraction was the one hit kill. Remove that, and what is the point?

If you're stupid enough to rush into a facility or building (without scout radar, fash/conc nade etc), then you probably deserve to die to the shotgun. After all, the pump actions sweet spot can be avoided.

Anyway, unlike the scat max, all factions have access to a pump action... so I am somewhat surprised by this, as I really don't think they are/were overpowered.

[Ghoest9]

How does nerfing all shotguns keep the new ones attractive? The attraction was the one hit kill. Remove that, and what is the point?

If you're stupid enough to rush into a facility or building (without scout radar, fash/conc nade etc), then you probably deserve to die to the shotgun. After all, the pump actions sweet spot can be avoided.

Anyway, unlike the scat max, all factions have access to a pump action... so I am somewhat surprised by this, as I really don't think they are/were overpowered.

This isnt rocket science.

They introduced a new shot gun that most players consider to be better than the old ones.
many people bought it.

If they nerf the new one - they probably want it to be better than the old ones so people will keep buying them.