Battle Rifles - Scout Rifles: Anyone use them?

[Assist]

I bought the Eidolon way back when and I used it for about 3 kills before I realized it was a mistake. I simply don't see the advantage to using it.

The Artemis however I used for a decent amount of time because it had a nice fire rate and I could use it on my infiltrator. However, they released the SMG's and I no longer had a use for it. I've not used the semi-auto scout rifles much either, only tested with them a bit. Didn't seem like the damage was worth losing from the bolt actions.

I recall them putting it out there that they were going to look into balancing these two weapons fairly early, but like most things it got pushed back. Does anyone use these, for specific situations or even as their main loadout ?

[bpostal]

I use my AMR-66 on my heavy for mid-range engagements. Typically the first phase of a tower defense. It's not terrible, but it's not exactly good either. A pity since it was the one weapon, besides flamethrowers on the MAX (because fire), that I was looking forward to the most.
Giving it high velocity ammo or an advanced forward grip would help but I doubt we'll see a balancing pass on these anytime soon.

[Juryrig]

I use the Eidolon all the time on my Engie.

I was actually going to start a thread asking for some love for the attachments, because apart from the optics there's nothing that really improves its performance; forward grip and compensator are good for controlling the recoil during automatic fire...um, it's a semi-auto weapon?

Anyway, yes. Long range fight = battle rifle, mid range = carbine, short range = SMG

I am equally crap with all three loadouts, mind you.

[Assist]

I use the Eidolon all the time on my Engie.

I was actually going to start a thread asking for some love for the attachments, because apart from the optics there's nothing that really improves its performance; forward grip and compensator are good for controlling the recoil during automatic fire...um, it's a semi-auto weapon?

Anyway, yes. Long range fight = battle rifle, mid range = carbine, short range = SMG

I am equally crap with all three loadouts, mind you.

Ah, that makes sense. I don't normally play my engineer when I play as infantry, only when I'm using a vehicle. I can see why it would be good in that situation, as it's the only long range option for the engineer for VS.

[Rbstr]

I like the battle rifle concept...the implementation is maybe a bit wonky but I pull the Eidolon fairly often in more outdoorsy sort of fights, like Esamir can be.


I was actually going to start a thread asking for some love for the attachments, because apart from the optics there's nothing that really improves its performance; forward grip and compensator are good for controlling the recoil during automatic fire...um, it's a semi-auto weapon?

I find the laser helps if you end up getting closer and no ADSing. Ends up behaving like a base pistol, sort of.

[Sirisian]

Yeah Eidolon is my primary weapon for my engineer. Takes some practice, but it's better than any gun at range. The artemis was replaced by the smg. They are better in every way.

[Bocheezu]

AMR-66 is an OK option for TR engies because T5 AMC is lackluster (at best)

T5 AMC -- 0.55s TTK with 0.1 ADS accuracy
AMR-66 -- 0.54s (0.1)
Pulsar C -- 0.52s (0.03)
AC-X11 -- 0.48s (0)

Beyond 50m, I just go with TRAC-5 or TRAC-5 S and hope for the best

[Sledgecrushr]

Everytime I play heavy outside I promise myself that I will buy a battlerifle.

[Juryrig]

Everytime I play heavy outside I promise myself that I will buy a battlerifle.

I don't know that it's any better than firing single-shots from an LMG with a 4x scope fitted, tbh. I keep meaning to try that to compare them.

*edited to add* it's slightly better - 3 headshots or 6 bodyshots to kill at range as opposed to four headshots or 7 bodyshots for the LMG (I tested the Flare, specifically). Whether you could get those on target quicker with the LMG is a good question, though.

[Rolfski]

Battle rifles like AMR-66 are basically hit marker machines. Bullet velocity is too low and you can't follow-up shots quickly and accurately enough to make them effective semi-auto AR's like they are in other games.
If you come from a game like CoD or BF and expect to go to town like you're used to with a M14/M21/M25/M39-like weapon, be in for a big disappointment.

Higby stated they will look into battle rifles again but so far we're still waiting

[Rumblepit]

Everytime I play heavy outside I promise myself that I will buy a battlerifle.

guass saw is the best battle rifle in the game atm imo. 0 first recoil multiplier means you can shoot 1 bullet at time land all your shots and do almost same damage without having to deal with the horrid bullet drop and low velocity of the battle rifles .x6 scope, adv forward grip and compensator and you good to go.

[Sledgecrushr]

I guess Im just going to have to buy the x6 scope for my saw.

[Carbon Copied]

Really enjoy using the Warden for my engineer with a 3.4x scope seems to hit the sweet spots for the open terrain of Esamir and other engage at distance fights. Just allows for pot shots if needed between turret repairs.

[Ghoest9]

The one class that might get more than marginal use from a battle rifle is the LA - and they dont have access.

[Juryrig]

The one class that might get more than marginal use from a battle rifle is the LA - and they dont have access.

I'm curious to understand your reasoning on that? I always think of LA as pretty much a close-quarter class.

Are you thinking of them using mobility to get into good ranged sniping positions that other classes couldn't access?

[SGOniell]

I use a Warden, and a full-auto scout rifle (don't remember the name), though I should say "used". The warden's shots don't travel anywhere near fast enough, and the bullet drop sucks. Pretty terrible weapon. Highly disappointed with that purchase.

I had bought the full-auto scout rifle for firefights, but it kicks too hard for that really, SMG's are a better way to go.

[Ghoest9]

I'm curious to understand your reasoning on that? I always think of LA as pretty much a close-quarter class.

Are you thinking of them using mobility to get into good ranged sniping positions that other classes couldn't access?

Its a stretch to call its sniping. But the LA is great at getting into odd positions behind the enemy where you get shots in the 30-70 meter range.

[Baneblade]

The problem with the Battle Rifles is they directly compete with Sniper Rifles at the ranges they should be ideal for. So they had to be designed to be worse than Sniper Rifles, which makes them bad all around.

I wanted to use the Warden, I like the idea of it. But a really long pistol with worse cof and recoil is not really something I can justify using.

[Juryrig]

I have to admit I use the warden on my NC much less than the Eidolon on my VS. But then I hardly play my NC....

[Erendil]

I use the Eidolon quite a bit when playing Engie. It's a good support weapon to have for when you're sitting back just behind the front lines repping vehicles, playing ammo monkey or guarding an AMS. Its long range and higher damage per shot lends itself well to taking advantage of opportunity fire, taking potshots at enemies that are engaging your friendly troops ahead of you at the point of contact, repelling footzergers running towards your base from up on the walls and tower balconies, etc.

It's also good at suppressing enemy snipers and killing Phoenix users and Engies using MANA turrets at very long range when they think they're far enough away to be safe and so let their guard down. Plus, since Engies have unlimited ammo it lets you put out a continuous stream of high-damage bullets directed at enemy positions from quite a long distance. People really don't like getting hit by a Battle Rifle so it's quite useful for suppressive fire at long range and at choke points. You may not kill them but they'll definitely run for cover and keep their heads down. It works much like the Lasher in that regard.

That said, I rarely use it as HA since its damage is somewhat lackluster for this more direct killing-oriented class. It needs to hit harder in order to be a viable alternative to a long range LMG option like the SAW, TMG-50, or SVA-88.

[Saintlycow]

I don't use them.

I was saving up for an Artemis or Nyx, but the SMG's made these weapons completely obselete.

[Spazmodian]

I have an auraxium medal with the Warden. My normal setup is 2x Reflex, Forward Grip and Compensator. I also have the BDS x6, 1x Reflex, 3.4x, NVS and Flash Suppressor. The Warden is easily my most used weapon. I also use a GD-7F and Mauler S6. I acquired the Warden very early and up until then I was skewed a bit towards the AC-X11. 95% of my playtime is as an engineer, and most of that is as an infantry engineer.

Overall I prefer the feel of the Warden. However, both the GD-7F and Mauler are clearly superior weapons.

What I've suggested before on the official forums to improve all the battle rifles:

Large bump in projectile velocity, up from 500 to the 700-750 range. This would make them the fastest infantry projectiles in the game and this would be their niche.

ADS COF while crouched should be 0 instead .1. Keep the standing ADS COF at .1.

Push the fall off ranges out. Warden is 250 @ 10m down to 200 @ 85m currently and I'd push that out to 250 @ 25m down to 200 @ 125m.


I would have the same sort of treatment for scout rifles, and obviously VS weapons would take some different values based on the lack of projectile drop.

[Bodido]

Pump actions with slugs are better battle rifles than the actual battle rifles. Try them out in Vr. Very fun, but I feel kind of gimped when using it compared to carbines. I use it as LA at times. Great countersniper setup.

[Rothnang]

I use a battle rifle on my engineer, but it really isn't a very good weapon. It really doesn't have a significant advantage at range since accuracy doesn't mean all that much in a multiplayer title where people never stand still. I mean, you play something like the new Bioshock and it's night and day, in that game the enemies will stop moving when they fire to aim, and that means a highly accurate weapon has a big advantage on hitting weakspots. In a multiplayer game like PS2 that doesn't simulate accuracy in a more realistic way you pretty much always shoot at moving targets, so there is little advantage to a highly accurate weapon. You're much better off having a weapon that gives you a higher chance of random hits.

[Koadster]

AMR-66 is an OK option for TR engies because T5 AMC is lackluster (at best)

T5 AMC -- 0.55s TTK with 0.1 ADS accuracy
AMR-66 -- 0.54s (0.1)
Pulsar C -- 0.52s (0.03)
AC-X11 -- 0.48s (0)

Beyond 50m, I just go with TRAC-5 or TRAC-5 S and hope for the best

Bro, do you even T5?

Its a good gun, almost a carbon copy of this new NS carbine too. Just needs a more sit back accurate shooting then run/gun due to 650rof.

To the OP, I use the HSR-1 on my Infil because its a 3 body shot kill, Which is pretty good. The AMR66 is good for Engies looking for longer range shooting, on HAs is pretty useless when I could use the TMG50 for long range so if they added it to LAs would give a bit more versatility to it and it certainly wouldnt be OP giving it to LAs because well.. the BRs arent killing machines to begin with.

[Juryrig]

Pump actions with slugs are better battle rifles than the actual battle rifles. Try them out in Vr. Very fun, but I feel kind of gimped when using it compared to carbines. I use it as LA at times. Great countersniper setup.

A bit of testing in VR shows this to be accurate :doh: which just doesn't seem right at all.

*edited to add* VR doesn't translate to real-world, for me at least. Should have saved the SC/certs. Oh well.

[Binkley]

I use the Shadow semi-auto scout rifle with my infiltrator for run-n-gun at 50-100M ranges. It's nice in that field south of Ti Alloys, for example, but of limited use overall. I trialed a Warden and didn't like it. Not nearly as good as a SAW with a 4x or 6x for my heavy assault sniper.

[AThreatToYou]

The deal with the Scout Rifles is that they have sniper-level accuracy & damage without scope sway. I'm not sure about the battle rifles, but I'd assume they are the same deal. During the beta, I thoroughly enjoyed a VS scout rifle and the HSR.

However, now I play NC. For NC, we have things like the AC-X11, the Gauss SAW, and Reaper DMR which can mount 6x scopes and deal a hefty 200 damage per shot. It's as good as an automatic scout rifle, 'cept the auto-scout rifles are available for the infiltrator. Before the SMGs were added, I might have recommended a scout rifle.

[Rothnang]

Battle rifles have no scope sway, but the biggest scope you can put on one AFAIK is 6x, and it takes two headshots + a love tap to kill someone.