GU06 Getting the Balance Pass: Scat Maxes + All Shotguns

[subDii]

"Scat MAXes will be getting a balance pass in GU06 along with all shotguns - the main MAX update will be a bit later."

- Matthew Higby ‏@mhigby 9:37 AM - 28 Mar 13
via Twitter

:groovy::D:groovy::D:groovy::D:groovy::D

What I'm most looking forward to:

NC insta gib scat maxes no longer making me /facepalm :mad::evil::cry: /DieOnTheInside

Pump shotties will *hopefully* no longer 1-shot kill. I used to be afraid of autoshotties but these pump action are 10x the horror for me. Curious what they will do to make pump action shotties less miserable for the rest of us... much awaiting this balancing.

[Hamma]

Full Tweet:

https://twitter.com/mhigby/status/317314629032374273

[WSNeo]

Hopefully they make the Jackhammer a viable weapon now. I don't think I've ever been killed by that thing, and all I hear is the NC whine about it (calling it the Jokehammer).

I remember the PS1 days where the other two empires dreaded fighting NC indoors or in a forest area because of that thing and it's triple-burst toggle.

[KaskaMatej]

I hope it will be more fun having CQB now.

[subDii]

:doh:

Sry Hamma I keep it simple with my copypasta. But it gets er job done nonetheless right?

[PredatorFour]

Just a quickie, what about the people that bought the product and are now disappointed with how 'their' product has now turned out ?



Test server anyone ?

[Assist]

Very curious to see how they balance the shotguns. The scatmax change is... odd. I don't have a problem with the scatmax or hackmax, but if they're going to change shotguns they have to change them I guess.

I just don't see the 'room' for balance adjustments of the shotguns

[Dragonskin]

How can this be? We have an entire 15 page thread saying Scatmaxs are balanced. Obviously this is an error.

[Punker]

Hopefully they make the Jackhammer a viable weapon now. I don't think I've ever been killed by that thing, and all I hear is the NC whine about it (calling it the Jokehammer).

I remember the PS1 days where the other two empires dreaded fighting NC indoors or in a forest area because of that thing and it's triple-burst toggle.

A bit of JH love would be nice, all over shotguns and scat maxes need adjustments badly, i hope a slower RoF is slated as well.

[Zidaya]

I agree with you Assist, I can't see how they could "balance" them without making them not worth using.

[subDii]

Just a quickie, what about the people that bought the product and are now disappointed with how 'their' product has now turned out ?

Test server anyone ?

I know it sucks but that's the inherent risk of spending real money on an in game item where the world is constantly changing hence changes in the form of balance buffs or nerfs are likely to happen.

Those shotguns are still going to be powerful I'd wager, so don't worry too much about it - their just going to be tweaked some.

[Snoopy]

Looks like it's time has just about come to put the shotty away. It has served me well..

[subDii]

Very curious to see how they balance the shotguns. The scatmax change is... odd. I don't have a problem with the scatmax or hackmax, but if they're going to change shotguns they have to change them I guess.

I just don't see the 'room' for balance adjustments of the shotguns

They don't necessarily need to render shotguns useless in order to balance them out, just make them easier to defend against in those tight quarters where they are currently IMO far too powerful.

Hits on the flesh should kill instantly as is, but default shield resistance can be buffed to further negate shotgun rounds.

[ThePackage]

- Pump shotgun down to 7 pellets
- Semi-auto and auto down to 5

Balanced, that took about 5 seconds to come up with. Shotguns have an awesomely simple tuning mechanism built in, this is the easist knob to turn.

What I expect to happen is, they turn 8 different knobs hoping they come up with something and end up making shotguns useless.

[Shamrock]

Looking forward to it.

[ItZMuRdA]

Not surprising at all, a little sad to hear "all shotguns" though. I hope the "balancing" isn't too brutal, as I always have enjoyed the shotgun playstyle.

[Ghoest9]

Well it sounds like they are nerfing all shot guns - even though the old ones were fine for 3 months.

I guess you cant introduce a new weapon with out making it actually better than the old weapons.

[Snydenthur]

Judging by the amount of cry and whine shotguns have gotten towards them, they probably won't be of any use after this. I hate it when developers give in to whiners for no reason. Well, doesn't really concern me, makes cqc superduper easy (well, it is very easy even with shotguns running around). But the problem is, cqc and battles overall will be boring. Well, I'm anxiously waiting what the next "op" weapon will be.

And I've never had a problem with nc max. They are scary and can clean up a room fast. That's how a walking tank should be. They should've just buffed vs and tr max a bit.

[Mustakrakish]

Honestly, I'm glad to see our MAX getting some attention. I'd be okay with having the damage reduced within 5-10 m if the damage dropoff with range gets evened out a bit.

I have no real qualms about shotguns being able to OHK, but I find it exceedingly strange that the pump-actions are the only ones that can OHK without a headshot.

Hoping the Jackhammer gets some love as well. Or at least a larger magazine.

[snafus]

Ty Higby, this has been a long time coming to at least admit there was an issue with the scatt max.

[Dragonskin]

Honestly, I'm glad to see our MAX getting some attention. I'd be okay with having the damage reduced within 5-10 m if the damage dropoff with range gets evened out a bit.

I have no real qualms about shotguns being able to OHK, but I find it exceedingly strange that the pump-actions are the only ones that can OHK without a headshot.

Hoping the Jackhammer gets some love as well. Or at least a larger magazine.

I agree with this. Let the scatmax do less damage, but a tighter COF.

The Jackhammer does need a buff. It should be a go-to shotgun for a NC Heavy. Just like the Striker is now TR's go-to for lock-on launchers.

I'm interested to see how they balance the other shotguns though. The pump has 10 pellets. Which is why it was a ohk.. without the same damage it will be a 2 shot kill.. then what is the point of the others? A 3 shot shotgun is a waste of space. SMGs would become the undesputed CQC kings.

[EVILPIG]

The ScatMAX puts it's damage up front and has no sustainability. They will probably remove Slugs from MAXes and lower # of pellets. They will need to increase clip size to match.

[Rbstr]

Well it sounds like they are nerfing all shot guns - even though the old ones were fine for 3 month

What if they're going to pull a realism change and make shotguns less of min-claymore/pellet point sources and more like the real thing - much tighter spreads, while reducing the hitting power some?

Instead of point blank face melter, they'd be low-mid range options with a bit of accuracy slop and competitive TTKs even with a couple pellets missing (would require more pellets, probably).

[Badjuju]

The ScatMAX puts it's damage up front and has no sustainability. They will probably remove Slugs from MAXes and lower # of pellets. They will need to increase clip size to match.

That or they could possibly reduce pellet damage but tighten spread, reducing overall damage but increasing range. Both could work I think.

Instant small arms death mechanics is just bad game design from a competitive stand point IMO (point blank may be the exception). Hopefully they can implement changes where shotties/scatMaxs are still viable but don't make you want to pull your hair out every time you encounter one.

Jackhammer could use a larger clip as well.

[Sledgecrushr]

I remember when they nerfed scat max in beta and made them complete shit. Looks like this might happen again.

[Dragonskin]

What if they're going to pull a realism change and make shotguns less of min-claymore/pellet point sources and more like the real thing - much tighter spreads, while reducing the hitting power some?

Realism doesn't belong in Planetside 2 and if you were to make shotguns more realistic they would be much more deadly than they currently are. Especially slug rounds.

[CraazyCanuck]

Just a quickie, what about the people that bought the product and are now disappointed with how 'their' product has now turned out ?



Test server anyone ?

We are SOL unfortunately. There's quite a few things on my list that I regret purchasing as they are garbage. At least the newer folks have the VR now and can avoid the same frustration.

[Rbstr]

Realism doesn't belong in Planetside 2 and if you were to make shotguns more realistic they would be much more deadly than they currently are. Especially slug rounds.

Ok, yeah, no "realism" belongs. Gravity should repel, guns should be held by our feet. Whatever.
The point is the thing would operate more like the a modern shotgun does. Insert Sci-fi magic to justify TTK. Suck a bag of dicks, whatever.

[Sledgecrushr]

Ok, yeah, no "realism" belongs. Gravity should repel, guns should be held by our feet. Whatever.
The point is the thing would operate more like the a modern shotgun does. Insert Sci-fi magic to justify TTK. Suck a bag of dicks, whatever.

How is this for realism, modern day buck shot will not penetrate modern day bullet proof armor.

[VaderDSL]

Hopefully they make the Jackhammer a viable weapon now. I don't think I've ever been killed by that thing, and all I hear is the NC whine about it (calling it the Jokehammer).

I remember the PS1 days where the other two empires dreaded fighting NC indoors or in a forest area because of that thing and it's triple-burst toggle.

I use the Jackhammer almost exclusively, it is a great weapon imo :) I get just as many kills with it and streaks as I do with the EM6 or NC6. It's overlooked imo and I'd go so far as saying it's better than either the Lasher or Chaingun which I've used, although not as much as the Jackhammer.

[Baneblade]

How is this for realism, modern day buck shot will not penetrate modern day bullet proof armor.
What about rocket propelled thermonuclear buckshot?

The Jackhammer should be a semi auto AA12, 50 round drum included.

[Koadster]

I need my max update! Since they are making us wait a few extra weeks for the max class revamp.. Better be some extra good loving added to the class!

[Sledgecrushr]

It would be kind of funny to me if they dealt the nc max a small damage nerf but upgraded our clips to 50 rounds each. This would be very nice.

[Rumblepit]

:groovy::rofl::groovy::rofl::groovy::rofl::groovy: :rofl::groovy::rofl::groovy::rofl:


thats all.

[Rbstr]

How is this for realism, modern day buck shot will not penetrate modern day bullet proof armor.

Yeah and all gunshots that connect should send the player to the hospital.
I gave justification - you get more of a mid range weapon and it now behaves more like the object many people are familiar with.

"Realism doesn't belong" is not just an opinion or poor argument it's flat out wrong. This game can't exist without adhering to some semblance of realistic physics and activities. If he doesn't like the proposal he should find an opinion he can justify and an augment with substance.

[DirtyBird]

Whats the latest spin on a possible release date of GU06 anyway?

[ChipMHazard]

This is why I seldom like shotguns in FPS's, they are a right bitch to balance... Especially when you have so many of them in a game.
How many times have they rebalanced the Scatmax now?:p

[Soothsayer]

People who bought them because they heard that they were OP (or experienced it) should not be surprised when they get nerfed back.

SOE should not be surprised when they release something that could be construed as or considered to be OP that people would flock to it.

[Whiteagle]

I need my max update! Since they are making us wait a few extra weeks for the max class revamp.. Better be some extra good loving added to the class!
Yeah, when are we getting the MAX Flamethrower/Grenade Launcher?

[Riekopo]

A balance pass? This just means a nerf pass doesn't it?

[MrVicchio]

If they nerf the pump shotguns, they need to up the ROF, cause frankly I die more to SMG's and AR's then I do to shotties, double so when I'm using a shotty.

[Dragonskin]

Yeah and all gunshots that connect should send the player to the hospital.
I gave justification - you get more of a mid range weapon and it now behaves more like the object many people are familiar with.

"Realism doesn't belong" is not just an opinion or poor argument it's flat out wrong. This game can't exist without adhering to some semblance of realistic physics and activities. If he doesn't like the proposal he should find an opinion he can justify and an augment with substance.

You don't set out to make a game realistic. You make a game balanced and entertaining. Video games are the suspension of realism. If the game was realistic you wouldn't be riding a ATV through a battlefield... like well.. Battlefield 3.

Shotguns are not made to be realistic due to game balance. Which is why myself and many others don't really feel shotguns belong in FPS games. They are either too weak or too strong because there are other weapons that already fill the mid range and close range roles. Sniper rifles are another weapon that is extremely hard to balance if you want to make them realistic. Realistically the sniper rifles would be a OHK to the chest, but they aren't because they have to be balanced around fun and entertainment.

[Hamma]

Scatmax definitely needs to be brought in line. But personally I don't have huge issues with other shotguns.

[Redshift]

Any change to the pump actions will make them useless, I just don't think were going to be able to have useful shotguns with the short ttk,

[Varsam]

- Pump shotgun down to 7 pellets
- Semi-auto and auto down to 5

Balanced, that took about 5 seconds to come up with. Shotguns have an awesomely simple tuning mechanism built in, this is the easist knob to turn.

What I expect to happen is, they turn 8 different knobs hoping they come up with something and end up making shotguns useless.

An even simpler solution would be to increase refire time for the shotguns. It retains the damage potential while becoming more punishing of misses and poor situational awareness. Skill is still rewarded, the capacity to clear rooms by yourself is lessened.

[Canaris]

An even simpler solution would be to increase refire time for the shotguns. It retains the damage potential while becoming more punishing of misses and poor situational awareness. Skill is still rewarded, the capacity to clear rooms by yourself is lessened.

not really since most peoples problem with shotguns is it being a OHK weapon.

[Nur]

thank god they nerf NC scattermaxes and shotguns!

Sometimes I think they release OP weapons on purpose to sell them, then they nerf them some time later

:D

[Canaris]

thank god they nerf NC scattermaxes and shotguns!

Sometimes I think they release OP weapons on purpose to sell them, then they nerf them some time later

:D

wouldn't suprise me.... it's working :doh:

[Frotang]

Argg I bet im the only NC thats MAX is certed 52% and doesnt own Hacksaws, kinda sad as I was gonna try out the Hacksaws after i get Auraxium on both my Scattercannons this weekend.....lame

Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Tapatalk 2

[Baneblade]

Hacksaw are nice if you have issues with accuracy. But I find I spend more time reloading than I do shooting with them. I much prefer the Grinders or stock Scattercannons.

[Koadster]

thank god they nerf NC scattermaxes and shotguns!

Sometimes I think they release OP weapons on purpose to sell them, then they nerf them some time later

:D

Isnt that standard F2P scheme? :lol:

Hopefully people stop using shotguns now. Tonight I literally didnt fight a VS who WASNT using a shotgun at any range.

[Frotang]

Yeah i found that i just wasted ammo when i trialed hacksaw. I prefer stock scats for CQ and mattocks with slugs for my ranged setup (yes i use a scatmax at range) but for extreme CQ im Sure i would do better with hacksaws over scats.

Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Tapatalk 2

[Snydenthur]

Today I finally realised why people whine about shotguns. That's because a lot of players really suck at close range, even with the shotgun. I had my pulsar c (which isn't the best choice for close range) and all I had to do was crouch and I won like 90% of the fights I should've lost no matter what I did. I had like one bar of health left and I actually won against 3 players by crouching, one with the big bad pump action shotgun.

But I'm still quite puzzled why everyone says it's the click and win weapon. I'm always having a bad luck when I write to the chat. Today I was surprised twice by a shotgun user and it took the first one 2 shots and the other 3 or 4 shots. If I'm standing there doing nothing, I would presume they should be able to kill with one shot. Seeing this, I actually believe pump actions are even a little underpowered instead of completely balanced.

And after today, I believe even more, that if shotguns are nerfed, the next on the list will be lmgs. I still don't believe they are overpowered, but it really is one of the best weapons close range and that's why it is in danger of being whined to nerf.

[JesNC]

... lmgs ... one of the best weapons close range ...

:eek:

:huh:


On topic, I'm looking forward on what they have in store for shotguns and MAXes. I hope they're going to be creative on both.

[Bobby Shaftoe]

You make a game balanced and entertaining.

You don't make it balanced, otherwise how will smedly make all his sheckles selling OP (at release) guns... remember, this is F2P, balance comes AFTER revenue generation.

[OldAeon]

You don't make it balanced, otherwise how will smedly make all his sheckles selling OP (at release) guns... remember, this is F2P, balance comes AFTER revenue generation.
I'm curious how this will work out in mid-long term. I know I'd be (mildly put) annoyed if I had spend money on guns repeatedly and they'd get nerfed only to release a new one that isn't (yet) nerfed.
What I've seen so far in their nerf/boost cycle isn't encouraging at all and is going straight into that direction.

[Figment]

*waits for whining to ensue once NC MAXes get a balance patch as their TTK at range is increased to be on par with TR and VS*

[BIGGByran]

*waits for whining to ensue once NC MAXes get a balance patch as their TTK at range is increased to be on par with TR and VS*

lol and they thought we were OP now, wait until the balance comes! lol I dunno, the only time I get Scat/Grind max is when I have to go bursters, then have to fight infantry. No point in wasting a good max unit.

[Mordelicius]

Argg I bet im the only NC thats MAX is certed 52% and doesnt own Hacksaws, kinda sad as I was gonna try out the Hacksaws after i get Auraxium on both my Scattercannons this weekend.....lame

Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Tapatalk 2
I don't use Max at all. It's just not my kind of gameplay with a bulky armor.

Also, it won't make any big difference really. We got everything crappy. We're used to it. Junk tank, junk esf and junk guns. What's new?

NC has a trump card though. It's called MLG. Any tournament will show which faction is getting shafted :lol:

[Sirisian]

I don't use Max at all. It's just not my kind of gameplay with a bulky armor.
You kind of missed out then. The ability to take another max out without taking any damage is kind of amazing. That and charging into a room and instagibbing everyone.

I'm kind of excited for this. Should make biolab fights against the NC much more enjoyable. Also with the shotgun changes they should be more skilled now. (Not a huge fan of the pump shotguns since they kind of replaced the regular ones).

[Snydenthur]

Those that have used the pump actions, what is your average hits per kill. Go to players site, check your shotgun and hits count / kills. Mine is 3,08. While this is not conclusive because you don't always kill what you shoot, it should still be much closer to 1 if there was only those one shot kills.

[Bunk]

The Scatmax needed a nerf, it could hold of an entire squad which no other max could possibly hope to achieve.

[Selerox]

Right, so let me get this right.

Scatmaxes and pump actions that are OP right now are getting nerfed.

Fine, sounds sensible.

But as well as that, the standard shotguns that were completely fine are also getting nerfed.

Er, what?!

I can maybe understand a slight ROF nerf for the auto shotguns, but that's about it. There's nothing wrong with the semi-auto shotguns.

If someone with a carbine ends up facing a semi-auto shogun (or SMG) user at CQC range in a base, they're supposed to lose. A carbine's strength is that at any other range outside of CQC, it'll wipe the floor with a shotgun user every time.

[Chewy]

The Scatmax needed a nerf, it could hold of an entire squad which no other max could possibly hope to achieve.

In what game can that happen? The only way that could be possible is if the attackers went 1 by 1 against a MAX with enough time between for the MAX to reload. Even in a 1v1 a NC MAX can loose to infantry it that MAX fails to kill before a reload and that infantry is a HA.

Yesterday I (as a dual Mattock MAX) was about to move out to our next waypoint and seen the satellite I was at starting to turn. Went to the cap point and found only a lone TR HA with a MCG. My dual Mattocks FAILED to kill that lone HA with my crosshairs dead center from across the room and he killed me before I had a chance to reload or get close enough for melee.

NC MAXes can hold off 1-3 people before a forced reload with or without support. TR and VS MAXes can hold off about 5-8 between reloads while unsupported.

If you think NC MAXes are a bitch to fight now, just wait for us to get a non shotgun ranged weapon that I hope is coming in the MAX update.

[fierce deity]

What they can do for shotguns is to keep the current damage but decrease the rate of fire a bit. This will decrease close quarters effectiveness a little by punishing misses more. I can't fathom why people are complaining that the pump action shot guns are overpowered. Sure they OHKO, but only at extremely close ranges where if you let your enemy get that close you deserved it.

The Jackhammer however could get a rate of fire and magazine size buff. It's marketed as a sustained fire weapon, so it should be able to actually do that. 8 rounds at three hits per kill, producing a measly 2 kills and an assist per clip assuming every shot hits, is simply not enough. The NC default pistol has better kills/mag potential than that for goodness sake. Give it 15-24 rounds per clip and the NC will have a viable heavy weapon.

The NC max could use a damage nerf with decreased damage dropoff and increased mag size. I think everyone would be happy with that change.

[Ghoest9]

What they can do for shotguns is to keep the current damage but decrease the rate of fire a bit. This will decrease close quarters effectiveness a little by punishing misses more. I can't fathom why people are complaining that the pump action shot guns are overpowered. Sure they OHKO, but only at extremely close ranges where if you let your enemy get that close you deserved it.




It sems to me that most the times i die from a pump its one of 2 things.

1 A LA snuck up behind me - thats fine I would die to most any weapon there.

2 We are both moving inside a building pop up face to face at a corner or door and someone gets one shot.
This is happening regularly now. Its fair - but its not good game play.

[fierce deity]

It sems to me that most the times i die from a pump its one of 2 things.

1 A LA snuck up behind me - thats fine I would die to most any weapon there.

2 We are both moving inside a building pop up face to face at a corner or door and someone gets one shot.
This is happening regularly now. Its fair - but its not good game play.

I admit I was thinking more of case 1 when I said what i did. Case 2 does pose a problem, even though it is fair, in that the pump action user will always win if he doesn't miss. I don't think the solution is to decrease the damage since that would make it inferior to other shotguns. How would you feel about a slight delay between when you press the fire button and when it actually fires indicative of a heavy trigger pull, so that the opponent has a chance to react? I believe the Saron SRB secondary for the magrider has this to counteract its sheer projectile velocity and accuracy and I haven't heard anyone complain about that.

[KodanBlack]

Looks like it's time has just about come to put the shotty away. It has served me well..

I will reserve judgment until I play them after GU06. If I feel that I have to clean and ready my Serpent once more, I'll do it after I know for sure.

Personally, I didn't feel that the shotguns, or the ScatMAXes were OP at all. They are situational and excel in their element, while being completely restricted to their role. Unlike SMG's or LMG's, which can still be used outside of their intended role, giving them more versatility than the shotguns.

Oh well, the whiners get to have it their way, and I'll simply have to kill them with higher rate of fire and longer ranged weaponry. Maybe, I'll just start using HA, shield up and walk into a room with a Devastator and a grenade bandolier for CQC, instead. Then finishe them off with my SMG.

[Emperor Newt]

Its fair - but its not good game play.
I think that's the main problem as with other one-hit-kill weapons. In almost all games, and by that we would have been better of without them in PS2. They always do not feel right for the player being killed with it.
It's not only about how balanced a gun looks on paper or in theory but also how being killed by it is percieved by players. And ohk weapons mostly never feel like you have been out-skilled, even if you have been.
And no matter how much work is put into balancing them, I doubt they will be largely percieved as balanced unless they over-nerf them.

[KodanBlack]

What if they're going to pull a realism change and make shotguns less of min-claymore/pellet point sources and more like the real thing - much tighter spreads, while reducing the hitting power some?

Instead of point blank face melter, they'd be low-mid range options with a bit of accuracy slop and competitive TTKs even with a couple pellets missing (would require more pellets, probably).

Leave auto and semi-autos alone, reduce the number of pellets in the pump actions to 8, and tighten their pattern to make them into short to short-medium range weapons. It would also force more accuracy from a shotgunner in CQC as the pattern would be smaller. In all honesty, with their low rate of fire and reload speeds, pump-action shotguns still need the capability to OHK in extreme CQC to make them a viable weapon system.

[Whiteagle]

Personally, I didn't feel that the shotguns, or the ScatMAXes were OP at all. They are situational and excel in their element, while being completely restricted to their role. Unlike SMG's or LMG's, which can still be used outside of their intended role, giving them more versatility than the shotguns.
Shotguns maybe not so much, but ScatMAXes are always a pain in the ass...

You only see them in close quarters because that's where they murder everything, and usually in large numbers.
Plus their lack of range isn't much of a Drawback, since Duel Minigun MAXes are barely effective after 30 meters anyways...

[Teek]

Or they could use my idea, nerf scatmax, give equivalent to other factions, and give NC a proper ranged weapon. Like rail guns. Because the Nc should have more rail guns.

[VeCoVet]

What I don't get are the euphemisms that mean a nerf to regular shotguns. While I agree that pump action one hit kills are realistic, they might not be good gameplay, the other shotguns have already been buffed and nerfed before. They've already done a pass and tightened their pellet spread, and then they did another pass and nerfed the slugs. Now because of their mistake with pump actions, they want to nerf ALL shotguns again? That doesn't make sense.

So how come they can't agree on regular shotgun balance? They keep flipflopping on them, having looked at them at least twice before. Regular shotguns are fine, hardly anyone used them before the one hit wonders. Just "balance" and "look at" and "tweak" (i.e. nerf) the one hit wonders, because any nerf to regular shotguns, even if inconsequential, will mean that they'll disappear from use, due to psychological effects of knowing your weapon is nerfed.