Another help thread for sys building! Yay! Ver 2.0

[AwkdShellfish]

1. Are you building this computer yourself or having one built for you (Like HP, Alienware, or even a small shop)?
Myself. I am actually building this for my grandfather.

2. What is your budget and does that include shipping/taxes?
Minus shipping & handling, $500-$800?

3. Where do you live (Please list town, state, and country)?
Southern California, across town from MicroCenter

4. What do you need this computer to do (like gaming, Photoshop, and so on)?
The most strenuous thing my grandfather probably does is Hulu, Blue-Ray movies, and the occasional scanning in pictures of photo albums and such. No gaming whatsoever. He's 78.

5. What parts will you need for the computer? List what parts specifically, saying you need everything will not do.
My grandfather, atm, has two HP ready-built computers and given the configurations of these cases, I can't fit in hardly any other hard drives. In fact I was surprised to find out someone beat me to double-sided taping a Sata hard drive to the bottom of the case. :huh: He did expressed he liked the idea of an SSD. In fact, he's intrigued at the fact that I built my computer no problem, which is why I decided to post another link for his PC build. At the moment I am seeing if I can reuse any of his old PC parts I have already, but looking at all the driver issues, most likely I will have to start fresh with a new mobo, case, and possibly RAM.

6. Are you reusing any parts for this computer? If so say what parts (make and model).
Yes, Indeed!

HP Pavilion p6-2033w Desktop PC (http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?docname=c03050867&cc=ad&dlc=en&lc=en&jumpid=reg_r1002_usen_c-001_title_r0002#N405)

The motherboard on there is this guy right here (http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?cc=us&lc=en&dlc=en&docname=c02980014#N126).

6 GB total ram, two sticks...

Ramaxel x 1, 2GB 2RX8 PC3 10600U-999 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ramaxel-2-2GB-2RX8-PC3-10600U-999-4GB-Total-/151019324644?pt=US_Memory_RAM_&hash=item23297404e4)

&

Hynix x 1, 4GB PC3-10600 DDR3-1333MHz non-ECC Unbuffered CL9 240-Pin DIMM Dual Rank Memory Module Mfr P/N HMT351U6BFR8C-H9 (http://www.memory4less.com/m4l_itemdetail.aspx?itemid=1449040932)

Two Sata HDD. One 1.5 TB which came with the computer. One 3 TB hdd which is double-sided taped to the bottom of the case.

Next desktop is HP Pavilion a6500f Desktop PC (http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/product?cc=us&dlc=&lc=en&product=3740339)

Motherboard is MCP73M01H1 (Napa) (http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?docname=c01357119&tmp_task=prodinfoCategory&cc=us&dlc=&lc=en&product=3740339#N477)

4 GB Total 2 sticks.

Hynix x 2, 2GB PC2-6400 DDR2-800MHz non-ECC Unbuffered CL5 240-Pin DIMM Memory (http://www.memory4less.com/m4l_itemdetail.aspx?itemid=1444545546)

This 2nd one is strange in that it has this guy in it when I opened it up. Video Card - XFX HD-657X-ZHF2 Radeon HD 6570 1GB 128-bit DDR3 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready Video Card (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=14-150-543&SortField=0&SummaryType=0&Pagesize=10&PurchaseMark=&SelectedRating=-1&VideoOnlyMark=False&VendorMark=&IsFeedbackTab=true&Page=2#scrollFullInfo)

There are two no-name PSU mounted in both cases. Both are about 300W. I was thinking of having my grandfather use my old 430watt Thermaltake, however surprisingly my grandfather then whipped out this guy (http://www.microcenter.com/product/346705/Silver_Series_ILS-500_500_Watt_ATX_Power_Supply) outta now where like some fancy magic trick.

7. What kind of monitor/resolution do you have or want to get to use for the computer?
He has a Samsung 320PX 32" Widescreen LCD Monitor - 16:9, 8ms, 1000:1, WXGA 1366x768, DVI-D, S-Video, Composite, 15-pin D-sub (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3301486).


8. Do you have already have a OS or do you need one? What OS is that?
He wanted me to install Windows 7 64 bit, as he just found out the limits on RAM usage on the 32 bit platform.


9. What are you looking for the motherboard to have feature wise? Like SLI, Crossfire, Firewire, USB 3.0, Sata 6.0 Gb/s, and so on.
Whatever that can future proof his rig. Just remember he's not doing ANY gaming at all.

10. Any plans to overclock the CPU or GPU?
Nope. He doesn't know what it is, and I think it's better if we keep it like that.

11. What time kind of time frame are you planning on ordering these parts?
ASAP? If it's possible we would like to get it from the MicroCenter because they're so close and their prices aren't half bad.

One thing I would like to note is that the RADEON card "looks" usable. If at all possible I would like to save as many parts as I can to keep costs down, but if it's not worth it, than so be it.

Again, thanks guys, for all your help.

[AwkdShellfish]

Another thing I forgot to add is that XFX card, I can't seem to find any drivers for it on their site, what's the deal?

[AwkdShellfish]

OK,

AFTER talking about it, seems like he wants to keep the HP Pavilion p6-2033w Desktop PC (http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?docname=c03050867&cc=ad&dlc=en&lc=en&jumpid=reg_r1002_usen_c-001_title_r0002#N405), at least as much as he can from salvaging all the old parts in it. Get a new case, shove in all the old parts, plus put in that RADEON card, and buy a new SSD to speed things up. Well thoughts?

[AwkdShellfish]

Ok,

Upon further discussion, it seems like we would like to reuse the CPU if we can and the RAM, therefore buying a new motherboard, ssd, & case.

So if we will be purchasing another motherboard, what Chipset would be best to use with this CPU?

Pentium G630

TDP: 65W
Operating speed: Up to 2.7 GHz
Number of cores: 2
Socket: LGA1155
Bus speed: DMI (Direct Media Interface) - 5.0GT/s

Price range, well? Looks like less than 300? After talking it over with him. If possible...

[Rbstr]

He doesn't need to do anything to that computer...except maybe a better CPU?

I guess I don't understand what you want to do...if you're keeping everything.

[Soulsedge]

Dont do it, buy a HP or something like that or you will forever be stuck as his technical support biatch trust me from experience give relatives good advice to buy a PC with a manufacturers branded extended warranty it only leads to problems and issues if you build a PC for someone with zero technical expertise in computers.

If it was for a gamer who wants to get started in computing but doesn't know where to start i would say go for it but off the shelf for anyone over the age of 60 is perfect.

[Ailos]

It sounds like what you're really wanting to do with this is two things:
1. Add more, RAM
2. Add an SSD and possibly additional hard drives.

And probably you'd want plenty of USB ports for peripheral connectivity.

With those goals and applications in mind, then, all you really need is a new motherboard, the SSD, and any additional hard drive space you may want - space inside the case permitting.

You need a microATX mobo with as many SATA headers as possible. My recommendations:
http://www.microcenter.com/product/406526/GA-B75M-HD3_LGA_1155_B75_mATX_Intel_Motherboard
http://www.microcenter.com/product/408926/B75MA-P45_LGA_1155_B75_mATX_Intel_Motherboard
and if you want RAID support: http://www.microcenter.com/product/401630/H77MU3_LGA_1155_mATX_Intel_Motherboard

You probably don't need to upgrade the RAM much. 6 GB is plenty for any kind of household chores. It should plug right into any of the boards listed above.

The SSD: Samsung 840 series 120 or 250 GB flavors:
http://www.microcenter.com/product/402603/840_Series_MZ-7TD120BW_120GB_SATA_60Gb-s_25_Internal_Solid_State_Drive_(SSD)
http://www.microcenter.com/product/402604/840_Series_MZ-7TD250BW_250GB_SATA_60Gb-s_25_Internal_Solid_State_Drive_(SSD)
I have two of the 250 GB versions, and among other things, they also come with handy OS migration software if you don't want to do a fresh install.

It sounds like one of your bigger issues is finding enough space for all the hard drives in the PC. Based on the specs given on the product page, it doesn't look like you'll really be able to fit anything extra in there at all, so I'd grab a good case. This is a cosmetic thing, but your grandpa probably wants something sleek, sexy, and conspicuous: Fractal Design excels at this, and MC has a couple that are similarly-sized to the HP PC.
http://www.microcenter.com/product/383060/Arc_Mini_mATX_Mini_Tower_Computer_Case

But you can always walk around the floor and just pick the one that you like. Key thing to look for is a 2.5" tray or a combo 2.5/3.5" tray if you're going to stick the SSD in there (otherwise you'll need an adapter).

Other than this, the only thing you should be concerned about is maybe getting some thermal paste remover solution and fresh thermal paste since you're going to be transplanting the Pentium over to a new motherboard:
Cleaner: http://www.microcenter.com/product/355360/ArctiClean_Thermal_Material_Remover_and_Surface_Pu rifier
Thermal Paste: http://www.microcenter.com/product/391505/Arctic_Alumina_Premium_Ceramic_Polysynthetic_Therm al_Compound

Everything else should transplant right over into the new motherboard (CD drive, card reader, etc), and any of the power supplies should be compatible. The 6570 is also compatible with any of the new mobos listed, and might speed some things up if your grandpa uses any OpenCL-accelerated applications (like photoshop). The second PC already has W7-64 Bit, so just transfer it over to the SSD. If you feel like sidegrading to Windows 8, that's another $100.

[AwkdShellfish]

Soulsedge, thank you for your advice, but actually I am the one that is learning, so I don't really mind. :D In fact, I managed to learn how to cable manage inside the case with zip ties! Not just his case, but also mine as well, and I even learned how to install new headers for the Power and Reset switch, seeing how I damaged the ones on the case trouble shooting! During the process I also learned how to zip tie some old 90-92 mm fans end to end and made myself a custom fan setup since I didn't want to throw them away just because they don't fit into today's "modern" cases.

I gotta snap some pictures together of his and mine sometime today and show you guys.

Ailos, I'm sorry, I should have posted something earlier to let you know what I ended up doing, however I will take your list into consideration when he feels he is REALLY ready for an upgrade.

What I ended up doing was I took the motherboard, 6 GB RAM, and CPU (w/ stock cooler) from the HP Pavilion P6-2033W Desktop and shoved it all into THIS (http://www.microcenter.com/product/351733/EVO_Mid_Tower_ATX_Computer_Case). I picked that one because if he ever wanted to upgraded into a regular size ATX board, he can.

From the HP Pavilion A6500F Desktop, all I took was the XFX RADEON HD video card AND the middle front panel HP designated external hard drive hot swap thingy. (Sorry I don't know what you call that.) Turns out I was able to save it and put it where the floppy drive area is. All I had to do is pop off the stock HP cover. Looks pretty decent and best of all he scan still reuse his hold HP external. It's a 250 gig btw.

I chose to use the motherboard from the P6-2033W because the CPU, stock cooler, and RAM was already in place, and also the HP site only had driver support for Win 7 ultimate 64 bit. The A6500F only had Vista drivers...

He had 3 internal hard drives. 1 x 500 gb Hitachi Deskstar, 1 x WD Green Drive 1.5 TB, and 1 x Hitachi Deskstar 3.3 TB. When I saw the 3.3 TB I went kinda :huh:. That 3.3 TB was zipped tied somewhere inside the P6-2033W because that HP case didn't have room, so looks like someone beat me to "modifying" it. What I did was use the 500 gb drive as boot, and the 1.5 TB as a data drive in the new build. The 3.3 TB I took completely out and put it into an external enclosure. As for the other two SATA connections on the mobo I just put in the two optical drives, one of them a blue ray burner, the other a DVD burner.

Last but not least I put in some case fans on the side panel, had to rewire some of them into the molex connectors, and the stock CPU fan from the A6500F, I took and "stacked" it on top of the existing CPU cooler in the new build using zip ties. :p I know I know, he doesn't need that many fans, I just felt like doing it. The new case fans didn't have the three pin fan connector so it kept on popping up an an error message because that particular three pin connector was missing, so i'd figure I put some of the old fans to good use by placing it there. (You'll see what I mean when I post the pictures.)

Overall the install went fine and he's happy his computer is as smooth as it can get.

On occasion, the only trouble we encounter is the screen displays a black and white stripped pattern going vertically. After about 4-5 seconds the screen goes back to normal and an error message pops up on the lower right hand side saying "AMD display driver has just recovered..." Weird, anyone here knows what that means? He said before when that would happen (before anyone put in any video card) the display would do that and "never recover. At least this time around, it recovered" so he can continue his work. Furthermore, what's even weirder is my display is also behaving similar to his, except that it happens only for a split second and no error messages pop up and in less occasions. Bare in mind when this happens we are not gaming or doing anything "graphic intensive." Just the usual web browsing and transferring files to and from diff hdd.

So I'm wondering are both of our cards having driver issues or heat issues or perhaps entirely something else? hmmmm It's really not a problem because when it happens, it just happens then the screen just returns to it's normal display again.

[AwkdShellfish]

OK,

Here's his stuff first...

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/531986_10151309451096899_1182554570_n.jpg
FRONT-POWER OFF

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/529610_10151309451156899_1413217602_n.jpg
FRONT-POWER ON

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/527146_10151309451246899_1293459560_n.jpg'
FRONT-HP POCKET MEDIA DRIVE BAY (I managed to save this guy here, surprising.)

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/155743_10151309451366899_1978300336_n.jpg
FRONT-TWO OPTICAL DRIVES

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/45662_10151309451391899_1119802554_n.jpg
INSIDE-See where I crimped the fan connections on the left...

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/543766_10151309451511899_444289250_n.jpg
MOTHERBOARD-It's hard to see from this angle, but that's another fan I zip tied on top of another fan on the heatsink.

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/528459_10151309451776899_638066104_n.jpg
CPU FAN-Here's a better angle of two fans.

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/734437_10151309451741899_686177093_n.jpg
GRAPHICS CARD-XFX Card

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/534065_10151309451581899_967371897_n.jpg
HDD-And two hard drives, 500 gb & 1.5 tb, respectively, top down.

I also forgot to mention, that's a 500W Inland PSU he had laying around.

[Rbstr]

The question of "Why?" still escapes me here. He didn't have room for a drive...but you put one in an external enclosure anyway?

As far as your error...if it's a heat problem, at what amounts to idle conditions, you wouldn't be able to run a game. Reinstall the drivers.
The fact the both computers are doing it leads me to suspect you're doing something wrong in the regard...you're getting them from AMD.com, yeah?

[AwkdShellfish]

Yeah I originally thought he wanted more drives in the case, therefore I went and got a regular size case, then after I installed everything, he wanted the 3 TB hdd outside as an external so he can carry around. By then it was already too late, so I gave him my extra external enclosure.

For the drivers, yeah I got it from AMD.com. The XFX website seems to be always "under construction." At least that's what their support page displays, so as a last resort I went to AMD.com to get whatever drivers I can.

As for mine, I also got it from AMD.com. Not sure why I got it from there rather than HIS' website. When I remember I'll post it in my other 'build' thread.

[Rbstr]

With rare exception, I would not go to the manufacturer's websites. Stick with AMD's releases.

[AwkdShellfish]

Ok I did reinstall the AMD drivers for his computer. Still the same hiccup. It seems the hiccup is happening more now when he views any streaming media either from the 'net or his hard drive, whether it's in a small windowed screen or a full screen, the moment he hits play to run a .mp4 file or any video file the display driver fails.

Something he did mentioned to me was before I put in the video card, he would run the DVI connection straight from the motherboard itself and that problem would still happen. The only difference is this time around the display driver "recovered."

So I'm thinking, will a new motherboard solve this? hmmm.... or perhaps I should rip out the motherboard from the HP Pavilion a6500f Desktop PC and install Win 7 on it? Maybe I can use the Vista drivers instead since Win 7 drivers aren't available...

[Rbstr]

You're jumping to a hardware problem when it seems likely it's a software issue.

#1, You haven't reinsalled/repair-installed or otherwise put a fresh copy of Windows on this computer, correct? Software problems would likely persist in that case.
#2, you've got integrated graphics but you're running a video card? (He had a video card before, but was still plugged into the mobo? this is unclear to me) You need to go into the BIOS and disable it.
#3, sort out his video codecs and make sure Flash and the like are updated. (Now's a good time to get acquainted with that stuff. Are you familiar with media player classic and things like madVR and LAVFilters? you may want to google that and then ask questions)

[AwkdShellfish]

I have reinstalled a fresh copy of Win7. Did it twice, three times? Perhaps that is not enough times. I'll try it again...

Before, there WAS no video card plugged into the motherboard. He was running on the integrated graphics. It was my idea to put in that XFX card because it was just laying around.

BEFORE I put in the card, he said his HP system would just hiccup and stay that way. He had to manually push the reset button on the computer.
AFTER I put in the card, he said the system would hiccup, but at least now the display would "recover."

You mention going into the BIOS to disable something. What exactly do I disable? The integrated graphics?

Adobe Flash? Hmmmm now that you mentioned it, I never did do those things for him. Silly me. How can I forget those things.

No I have never heard of madVR or LAVFilters. For myself I have been using K-lite Codec pack for all of my viewing pleasures. Should I install my K-lite Codec pack on his computer?

[Rbstr]

No need to reinstall again if you've done it. It's pretty weird for a video card issue to persist when you go from integrated to a real card. That would seem to eliminate motherboard or CPU hardware as being a culprit. CPU, RAM, Mobo, are still on the table.
The fact that both of your computers seemingly have the problem and are probably similarly configured makes a software issue even more likely.
Of course that assumes this is actually the same problem, and not two different problems with similar appearance.

For turning of the integrated graphics: I don't know what it'll be called specifically but you're looking for something to do with the integrated graphics. Might be called Intel HD graphics or something.

As far as codecs. For something that's all inclusive that you don't really configure go with CCCP (http://www.cccp-project.net/).
But you can also get along with madVR and LAVFilters, there are guides easily googleable.

[AwkdShellfish]

Alright, he got tired of it so he told me to go get a new board, so I took Ailos advice on the Gigabyte one because the other two apparently were "out of stock." Weird because the site says different.

Put in the new mobo, installed old cpu, 6 gig ram, and vid card. Still the same hiccup problem of the driver messing up. So I took the card out and just ran on the integrated graphics and it's fine. No hiccups.

Compatibility issues with a 2.1 card going into a 3.0 slot? For now he's happy with the machine like that, or at least I thought so until he mentioned something about getting another video card. :D More shopping! :groovy: I don't mind really helping him out as I am also learning in the process.

When I went into the bios of both the old and new motherboards, the option of turning off the integrated graphics was there, and it was off, yet the problem of the display turning into a different color was still persisting. Once in a while it even went into the blue screen of death. Had a fatal error while he was watching ANY type of media, whether it's Window's Media Player, or another player. Doesn't matter whether it's full screen, or a smaller windowed screen.

However, ON MY computer, it wouldn't get to the point of having the screen turn to different colors or seeing black and white vertical lines or any other patterns. Just from time to time, say maybe once a day, I see a little horizontal streak rip across the screen, like the picture is "tearing." Other than that playing C&C RA3 is fine on high settings. Strange because I would expect it to hiccup during intense graphical sessions, but this "tearing" only happens when I'm just web browsing, or writing a word document. I have yet to install any of my other games like ACII, AC:B, or AC:R, or BFBC2 to really test it.

So far my computer seems to be working as fine as it can be, with the exception of the occasional "glitch." And even so it doesn't happen often enough to bother me, like what's happening on my grandfather's computer.

So I dunno. Weird. :confused:

[AwkdShellfish]

Ok so my grandfather pulled out this surprise this morning. Didn't realize he had something laying around like this....

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102689

Is it worth it to plug into his machine?

[Ailos]

So far, all 3 generations of PCI express are compatible with one another. And yes, that x1900 xtx is a step up from Intel HD graphics.

The tearing and weird colors issues sound like a connector issue to me - as in the connection port is loose on the board, which can happen if you plug stuff in/out frequently.