Magrider Balancing

[Chris Talon]

Hi there,

so now that the Magrider got it's strafing ability completely back, when are they going to balance the tank ? It needs the armor nerf that was talked about before the mobility thing - it really should have the weakest armor of all the MBTs in the game !

People already think it has anyway - it's one of the most mentioned "Moan and bitch" thing in threads trying to preserve magrider op.

What do you think ?

Cya
T

[bpostal]

We've the Striker now. Let them try to dodge.

[Sledgecrushr]

The vs is in a precarious position atm. Underpopped on most servers i think the vanu need a powerful magrider to be competitive. I say, buff the mag a little more.

[Koadster]

We've the Striker now. Let them try to dodge.

Its amazing how everyone forgets the M9 Skep launcher. Its been since launch and has many benefits over the Striker, againist armour ill still goto my SKEP over the striker every time.

[PredatorFour]

strikers are badass against my mag and scythe, sometimes it doesn't even tell you they are locked on!

And the mag still needs some love, it sure as hell don't need a nerf!

[Assist]

Nerfing the Magrider the first time did wonders for the game. Clearly made a better expeirence for everyone when the VS stopped logging in or switched factions. Waiting 2 months to change it back was brilliant as well, just enough time for those who switched factions to not want to switch back.

[bpostal]

Its amazing how everyone forgets the M9 Skep launcher. Its been since launch and has many benefits over the Striker, againist armour ill still goto my SKEP over the striker every time.

The SKEP is still okay, but for the amount of rockets I'll take the Striker every time.

[JesNC]

Hi there,

so now that the Magrider got it's strafing ability completely back, when are they going to balance the tank ? It needs the armor nerf that was talked about before the mobility thing - it really should have the weakest armor of all the MBTs in the game !

People already think it has anyway - it's one of the most mentioned "Moan and bitch" thing in threads trying to preserve magrider op.

What do you think ?

Cya
T

It already has the weakest armour of the 3 MBTs...

[ChipMHazard]

It already has the weakest armour of the 3 MBTs...

Same armour as the Prowler, afaik.

[Chris Talon]

The armor thing is one of the biggest misinformations in the game - I think Vanu players simply spam that bs to try to protect their op...

But seriously, it should have the weakest armor, weaker than the prowler ! That would balance out it's immense advantage over the other tanks at greater ranges.

[ChipMHazard]

That Magmowers lost some of that advantage when they buffed the velocity for HEAT and AP rounds.

[Xaine]

The armor thing is one of the biggest misinformations in the game - I think Vanu players simply spam that bs to try to protect their op...

But seriously, it should have the weakest armor, weaker than the prowler ! That would balance out it's immense advantage over the other tanks at greater ranges.

I'd try and explain why its not OP to you, but you're already so biased against it that there isn't any point.

I'm not sure why you called this thread 'Magrider Balancing' as you're clearly not looking for a discussion. You're looking for people to flame because you've been killed by a Mag one too many times.

People seem to forget the massive weaknesses the Magrider has vs the other tanks every time this comes up. Both the Prowler and the Vanguard have turrets, where as the Mag's gun is fixed - so you need to turn the whole tank to shoot at something. In a game where the back armour of a tank is far weaker than the front, thats a very big deal.

But yeah, whatever - Magrider is OP nerd rage nerd rage nerd rage.

[igster]

Disagree completely with this.

I do think, however, that the locational damage model just doesn't work with tanks. I like 1/2 shotting tanks and the idea of flanking targets to gain an advantage, however, I do not think that it provides for good balance.

The tracked vehicles are too disadvantaged.

Bring back PS1 armour battles where all tanks could escape and evade by driving at maximum speed away from a battle as well as towards it. The prowlers and vanguards basically find it hard evading incoming damage since they cannot drive at full speed away from a battle using terrain - they have to reverse out of battles.

1/2 shotting enemy vehicles feels great but overall is a major source of imbalance.

[Sledgecrushr]

The heart and soul of the vanu was the magrider. When it was stripped of its tremendous power and then nerfed to hell it really broke the vs spirit. Lets give the mag some of that power back and perhaps the barneys will fill their ranks again. I would like a gud fight with them again.

[maradine]

It's an interesting topic. We haven't lost any membership over it, but we certainly don't run mag columns any more. Whether it's substantive or psychological - who can say.

[JesNC]

Same armour as the Prowler, afaik.

I was under the impression that Magrider front and side armor were equalized during the big vehicle changes. Reviewing the patchnotes and checking ps2calc.com revealed that I was wrong :/ Doesn't happen too often, sorry ;)

[ChipMHazard]

I was under the impression that Magrider front and side armor were equalized during the big vehicle changes. Reviewing the patchnotes and checking ps2calc.com revealed that I was wrong :/ Doesn't happen too often, sorry ;)

No worries:D

[Varsam]

I was also under the impression Prowler HEAT and AP shells got their direct hit damage buffed (Vanguard already did more dmg), resulting in an effective nerf to Magrider health in terms of MBT combat. Also, even though Magrider strafing is now back to where it was pre-nerf, velocity increases to Prowler and Vanguard cannons amount to an indirect nerf to Magrider avoidance, which is it's only saving grace (other than the Saron, but I personally think the Saron needs a redesign).

[Falcon_br]

I don´t understand, magmower can always have you front towards the enemy, place front armor on it for the win, also place some smoke and no infantry can hit you.
Of course I am not a Dino lover, so I can´t see anything right about something I don´t know for sure, but that´s what I think about it.
Also it got the best faction secondary weapon from the game, you don´t need any skill to kill tanks/infantry/ESF with it.

[Badjuju]

I don't really get these complaints. In my opinion the Vanguard is far superior to the Mag. I vastly prefer it. I can't comment on the prowler as I haven't used it lately.

The armor, shield, projectile speed, damage, elevated turret, and rotating turret offer stronger benefits than the mags ability to strafe IMO.

I still think allot of this has to do with people using tanks incorrectly. Everyone still wants to Rambo in when they should be behind their infantry lines at all times, laying down supportive fire power and allowing the infantry to provide protection in return. The mag has more forgiveness when it comes to over extending, but the Vanguard provides many more benefits for those who play smarter with their tanks IMO.

I find the benefits of its strafing ability to be over exaggerated. I have no issues timing my shots (tank or launcher) to when a mag changes direction. If you place your shot just as they start shifting directions, they typically don't have time to change again before your shot lands. You just have to be more patient when taking shots and timing them right. A good standard tank driver can produce similar dodging capabilities by orienting their tank at an angle, allowing them to laterally change their position while moving forward and backwards to avoid shots, or simply pull back behind cover.

The stationary turret of the mag is a huge weakness as well. It leaves the mag extremely succeptible to being flanked. If you flank the mag rider a good angle you put them in a position where they have to expose their flank to either you or your friendly soldiers if he wishes to engage. The only other alternative is to try and back out of the situation, but at that point the damage has usually been done and their is little hope for escape. With a rotating turret you have much more control over the orientation of your ass, which is particularly useful when engaging multiple groups of enemies in a very shifty battlefield, and defending against flanking units.

The low turret on the mag is also extremely annoying.

The mag isn't a bad tank by any means, but I much prefer the Vanguard. I am sure that there are some that prefer the mag for their play style, but that is all part of balancing and having unique traits for different factions vehicles. With the mag you give up armor, projectile speed, a rotating turret, and damage (mag is the lowest) for more maneuverability. The prowler has less armor as well, but is the fastest tank, best AI tank still (I think), and has the ability to put a ton of fire power down range, especially when properly supported. The vanguard is slow and clunky but takes the most damage.

You can't forget about the annihilator, av lock on launchers, AV turret, Phoenix, and the striker either. They don't give shit about the Mags strafing.

I'm not sure how the vanguard and prowler damage stands presently. The prowler had gotten a 15% damage buff to both heat and HE rounds, giving it more overall damage than the Van after both rounds were fired (GU4 i believe). I am not sure where they re-adjusted it though after the nerf. I think it is still more powerful than it was pre-GU4, aside from the radius adjustment which effected all tanks. I see people say it was nerfed into the ground, but their complaints seem to coincide with the radius nerf which effected all tanks.

[Badjuju]

The saron is very good as some one stated, I'll give it that.

[Varsam]

I don't really get these complaints. In my opinion the Vanguard is far superior to the Mag. I vastly prefer it. I can't comment on the prowler as I haven't used it lately.

The armor, shield, projectile speed, damage, elevated turret, and rotating turret offer stronger benefits than the mags ability to strafe IMO.

I still think allot of this has to do with people using tanks incorrectly. Everyone still wants to Rambo in when they should be behind their infantry lines at all times, laying down supportive fire power and allowing the infantry to provide protection in return. The mag has more forgiveness when it comes to over extending, but the Vanguard provides many more benefits for those who play smarter with their tanks IMO.

I find the benefits of its strafing ability to be over exaggerated. I have no issues timing my shots (tank or launcher) to when a mag changes direction. If you place your shot just as they start shifting directions, they typically don't have time to change again before your shot lands. You just have to be more patient when taking shots and timing them right. A good standard tank driver can produce similar dodging capabilities by orienting their tank at an angle, allowing them to laterally change their position while moving forward and backwards to avoid shots, or simply pull back behind cover.

The stationary turret of the mag is a huge weakness as well. It leaves the mag extremely succeptible to being flanked. If you flank the mag rider a good angle you put them in a position where they have to expose their flank to either you or your friendly soldiers if he wishes to engage. The only other alternative is to try and back out of the situation, but at that point the damage has usually been done and their is little hope for escape. With a rotating turret you have much more control over the orientation of your ass, which is particularly useful when engaging multiple groups of enemies in a very shifty battlefield, and defending against flanking units.

The low turret on the mag is also extremely annoying.

The mag isn't a bad tank by any means, but I much prefer the Vanguard. I am sure that there are some that prefer the mag for their play style, but that is all part of balancing and having unique traits for different factions vehicles. With the mag you give up armor, projectile speed, a rotating turret, and damage (mag is the lowest) for more maneuverability. The prowler has less armor as well, but is the fastest tank, best AI tank still (I think), and has the ability to put a ton of fire power down range, especially when properly supported. The vanguard is slow and clunky but takes the most damage.

You can't forget about the annihilator, av lock on launchers, AV turret, Phoenix, and the striker either. They don't give shit about the Mags strafing.

I'm not sure how the vanguard and prowler damage stands presently. The prowler had gotten a 15% damage buff to both heat and HE rounds, giving it more overall damage than the Van after both rounds were fired (GU4 i believe). I am not sure where they re-adjusted it though after the nerf. I think it is still more powerful than it was pre-GU4, aside from the radius adjustment which effected all tanks. I see people say it was nerfed into the ground, but their complaints seem to coincide with the radius nerf which effected all tanks.

This guy gets it. SOE, hire him now, please.

[igster]

It's an interesting topic. We haven't lost any membership over it, but we certainly don't run mag columns any more. Whether it's substantive or psychological - who can say.

We still roll tanks, but to be absolutely honest - tanks are getting lolpodded all of the time.

I got BR40 in ps1 in a magrider pretty much the whole time. We still tank a lot in PS2.

Since the latest patch with all of the lockons and herp derping TR heavy assaults out there we are finding that we are only facing heavy assaults with strikers and lock on missiles or fleets of air-cav lolpodding us.

Noone is pulling armour because they end up being killed in under 10 seconds by aircraft after taking 5-10 minutes getting to a front line. Mostly with a cheap shot up the rear armour when being zerged by foot troops or multiple aircraft.

This weekend we've hardly been in a tank because there no other tanks to kill to have an enjoyable fight. Probably one of the highest population weekends in the game and we choose to fight as infantry.

[Sirisian]

so now that the Magrider got it's strafing ability completely back, when are they going to balance the tank ?
I'm confused. The other tanks were buffed and this is no longer an issue I thought? I mean for me as a Magrider the Prowler and Vanguard don't miss. It doesn't matter if I can strafe anymore since the velocity of their rounds no longer allow it to miss. Are you missing shots a lot with the strafing?

[Whiteagle]

People seem to forget the massive weaknesses the Magrider has vs the other tanks every time this comes up. Both the Prowler and the Vanguard have turrets, where as the Mag's gun is fixed - so you need to turn the whole tank to shoot at something. In a game where the back armour of a tank is far weaker than the front, thats a very big deal.
Yeah, that's what I don't understand...
HOW is that a weakness?

Disagree completely with this.

I do think, however, that the locational damage model just doesn't work with tanks. I like 1/2 shotting tanks and the idea of flanking targets to gain an advantage, however, I do not think that it provides for good balance.

The tracked vehicles are too disadvantaged.
I don´t understand, magmower can always have you front towards the enemy, place front armor on it for the win, also place some smoke and no infantry can hit you.
What you Magriders fail to realise is that in a Tank-on-tank fight, the Mag always has its weakpoint pointed AWAY from whatever it's shooting at.
This is both a positive and negative trait because as long as you are shooting at whatever is damaging you, you are already facing it with your strongest armor.

Also it got the best faction secondary weapon from the game, you don´t need any skill to kill tanks/infantry/ESF with it.
It also is a good argument for the MBT's to be made into Driver/Gunner affairs, but I'll get into that later...

I don't really get these complaints. In my opinion the Vanguard is far superior to the Mag. I vastly prefer it. I can't comment on the prowler as I haven't used it lately.

The armor, shield, projectile speed, damage, elevated turret, and rotating turret offer stronger benefits than the mags ability to strafe IMO.
I don't know, does the Mag's projectile move slower?
In any event, most of these benefits are only useful in a straight-up fight over flat terrain.
The Mag comes into it's own when it makes uses of the terrain as a Tank Hunter, where it's gliding allows it to bob and weave behind cover.
It's a sniper that should never be caught standing still firing from one location.

I still think allot of this has to do with people using tanks incorrectly. Everyone still wants to Rambo in when they should be behind their infantry lines at all times, laying down supportive fire power and allowing the infantry to provide protection in return. The mag has more forgiveness when it comes to over extending, but the Vanguard provides many more benefits for those who play smarter with their tanks IMO.
Well you are correct about Rambo-tanks ruining mechanized warfare in this game, but the Mag itself is kind of an odd duck when it comes to over-extension.

Yeah, against other vehicles it's more forgiving due to the fewer number of easily trackable large targets, but sparsely scattered Infantry is the real tinsel in the Roomba's brushes when it comes to their "Lack" of Turret.
Which is the actual problem here, Mag's where the main cannon is on the nose play like super-heavy infantry!

So not only do you have the spam issues created by One-man MBTs, but now you have a tank that is basically a straight upgrade from regular foot-slogging with the only real downside of being a much higher priority target.

I find the benefits of its strafing ability to be over exaggerated. I have no issues timing my shots (tank or launcher) to when a mag changes direction. If you place your shot just as they start shifting directions, they typically don't have time to change again before your shot lands. You just have to be more patient when taking shots and timing them right. A good standard tank driver can produce similar dodging capabilities by orienting their tank at an angle, allowing them to laterally change their position while moving forward and backwards to avoid shots, or simply pull back behind cover.
Well I haven't had much anti-Mag experience lately with the over abundance of NC on Waterson, but continuing to stay mobile in an unpredictable pattern does help tremendously against dumbfire rockets and fairly visible ballistic projectiles.

I don't know if the AP velocity update helped with this since I haven't been in a Mag since Beta, but if you saw the Shooter from far enough away you could pretty much sidestep anything without guidance.
That's what the Mag's greatest strength is suppose to be, being a bitch to hit if the driver knows what he's doing...

The stationary turret of the mag is a huge weakness as well. It leaves the mag extremely succeptible to being flanked. If you flank the mag rider a good angle you put them in a position where they have to expose their flank to either you or your friendly soldiers if he wishes to engage. The only other alternative is to try and back out of the situation, but at that point the damage has usually been done and their is little hope for escape. With a rotating turret you have much more control over the orientation of your ass, which is particularly useful when engaging multiple groups of enemies in a very shifty battlefield, and defending against flanking units.
The low turret on the mag is also extremely annoying.
Well that Nose Cannon is my personal problem with the Mag...

It's the only real fucking reason the Devs give for not seperating the Driver from control of the Main Cannon on ALL MBTs AND its necessity for first person aiming limits the Driver's awareness in a Vehicle where reactive movement is its greatest defense!

...Why can't we make the Top Weapon the Main Cannon and stick the Secondaries on the Nose?
Sure the Mag will still be the weakest against Flanking Infantry, but now the driver will at least be able to Manmower them!

The mag isn't a bad tank by any means, but I much prefer the Vanguard. I am sure that there are some that prefer the mag for their play style, but that is all part of balancing and having unique traits for different factions vehicles. With the mag you give up armor, projectile speed, a rotating turret, and damage (mag is the lowest) for more maneuverability. The prowler has less armor as well, but is the fastest tank, best AI tank still (I think), and has the ability to put a ton of fire power down range, especially when properly supported. The vanguard is slow and clunky but takes the most damage.
Eh, the Prowler's speed isn't much of an advantage, and we have just as valid issues with our Main Cannon that hamper its "DPS" advantage...
Two side-by-side guns on the far left of the Turret are not fun to aim, especially since the first shot's recoil will throw off the second while the reticule is only calibrated for the inner most cannon.

Sure it's great for Anti-Infantry Bombardment and point blank Anti-Vehicle work, but our Anti-Tank Tank is still the Lightning.

You can't forget about the annihilator, av lock on launchers, AV turret, Phoenix, and the striker either. They don't give shit about the Mags strafing.
Well yes, but this is another issue with Mags playing like Infantry...
If they get in close, they'll either kill you before you could get a dumbfire off, or use the very same cover protecting you to break the lock with a juke and THEN kill you.

Basically you need a Mag to have scooted past unaware of you in order to ambush it, otherwise it will just point its nose toward you and fire.
This is the only REAL reason Infantry are able to "Flank" them in the first place.
If they just stood back and let the footsloggers do the base taking like Tanks are suppose to, Ambushing Magriders as Heavies would be an actual Special Op instead of a common accident...

[Neutral Calypso]

I do not find magriders significantly more difficult to kill than other tanks, personally.
And the last time I chatted with some VS players they were talking about rolling a Lightning column. All-in-all I think this leads me to believe that the magrider is through being nerfed.

[Koadster]

The SKEP is still okay, but for the amount of rockets I'll take the Striker every time.

After the first rocket hit.. Tank moves behind cover 3-4 rockets hit that cover there goes your DPS. Skep does 3 outta 5 striker rockets, only needs 1 to hit with less visual constant lock on, coupled with faster rocket speed and 20% quicker lock on time.

[Varsam]

...I haven't been in a Mag since Beta...
And that's where you damage your own credibility, commenting on something you have next to no experience with. Mag strafing will only baffle the most novice of tankers thanks to poor lateral acceleration.

[WSNeo]

Keep in mind that it's been noted before that a developer (an outfitmate) said Higby admitted that Magriders are generally fully crewed compared to Prowlers or Vanguards usually being operated by one person.

I think OP needs to make a VS, pull a Mag and go use it alone for a few hours and see how lolop they think our tanks are.

Most Mag drivers flat out buy a Saron (you RARELY see anything other than the stock gun) because the default front cannon and gunner weapons are ass.

[Mordelicius]

Hi there,

so now that the Magrider got it's strafing ability completely back, when are they going to balance the tank ? It needs the armor nerf that was talked about before the mobility thing - it really should have the weakest armor of all the MBTs in the game !

People already think it has anyway - it's one of the most mentioned "Moan and bitch" thing in threads trying to preserve magrider op.

What do you think ?

Cya
T IMO, in terms of the Magrider, keep the status quo. They aren't as bad as they used to be (bad as in OP bad). Right now they are about a close 2nd in MBT next to the Prowler. Vanguard is a distant third since it's an easy target. Unlike Prowlers that will waste you if you keep exposed for too long.

The tanks are as balanced as it had ever been. It's far better when the Magriders were dancing over hills or Prowlers just spamming shots on spawn rooms and killing everyone, in or out.

What I don't like is the Magrider getting some nerf then VS will complain until they get a buff. IMO, keep the status quo.

If they really have to make some tank changes, give the Vanguard some extra survivability. Prowlers are dps, Mags are mobility and Vanguards are about survivability. Vanguards aren't exactly survivable since they are a huge lumbering target.

If not, just keep the status quo.

It's the ESFs that need serious balancing not the tanks, imo :lol:

[WSNeo]

Prowlers are rate of fire, Mags are versatility and Vanguards are about damage per shot.

FTFY

[bpostal]

After the first rocket hit.. Tank moves behind cover 3-4 rockets hit that cover there goes your DPS. Skep does 3 outta 5 striker rockets, only needs 1 to hit with less visual constant lock on, coupled with faster rocket speed and 20% quicker lock on time.

I don't think you fully appreciate the fact that the Striker shoots 5 rounds instead of just one.

[Mordelicius]

FTFY

DPS is damage per second which is a rate lol. Vanguard has a shield. Versatility is a good word but nonspecific and could mean almost anything.

[Whiteagle]

And that's where you damage your own credibility, commenting on something you have next to no experience with. Mag strafing will only baffle the most novice of tankers thanks to poor lateral acceleration.
Yet you also failed to notice where I said I hadn't seen a lot of Mag lately, or how having the Driver as the Main Gunner it detrimental not only to it but also any argument to seperating the two for all MBTs.

Honestly, I bought an Annihilator JUST so I could lock onto Magriders, because at the time they were able to just CIRCLESTRAFE everything.

The Opening Post mentions that they've gotten that BACK, and I really don't have any current experience to know whether the Velocity increases were enough to compensate.

I'm sorry that I've been playing Terran Republic and that we've had a legitimate SHITBOX of an MBT for the most part...

[Badjuju]

I'm going to have to disagree with you in a few places.

Yes the Mag 1v1 always has their front armor facing its target, but most fights and particularly most of the important fights arn't 1v1. The game is balanced with the concept of being in larger fights because that's what your typically taking place in while trying to gain territory.

If I see mags on the field, I almost always try to put myself in a position where I am engaging them from the side or slightly behind (regardless if i am infantry or tank, near or far). Once you get them spinning they are often in a world of trouble quick.

From another perspective, I've had this happen to me while in a Mag. I't is pretty easy to get into situations where you are desperately trying to swing your nose back and fourth as you try to reverse for safety. Good infantry groups have flanked me from both sides at close range before and when that happens you have no chance. If you try to shoot one group the other tags you, and backing away is often not an option at that point.

In a tank with a turret these situations are much more manageable as you have more control over your orientation. Simply backing up while swinging your turret around to pop a flanking infantry unit can be a savinging grace as you never have to change the orientation of your tank, a move that may instantly bring a quick death in a mag.

As an infantry unit I find the Mag easiest to go toe to toe with if I'm right up on them; unless its very flat terrain, then a good driver should win every time regardless of the tank. The ability to mag mow at slower speeds ( and faster to some degree) has been nerfed. This is probably due to friendly tks being outrageous early on. I simply work a ridge in the terrain, using it as cover. We end up do se do-ing around the ridge as the tanks shots clip the ridge more times than not. If they try to run me over I just end up getting a clean side shot or possibly an ass shot as mowing just isn't effective at slow speeds against moving targets.

Anyways, pretty tired and have realized I am rambling again when I wanted a few quick points haha. I stand by my earlier statements and will make a quick conclusion.

I've probably put close to equal time into the mag and vanguard. While I'm sure I have some slight bias based on play style, I believe you can get more for your money with the Van if used appropriately. The mag can be more forgiving if you over extend due to maneuverability and supports a very mobile play style. However if you are cautious not to over extend with the vanguard and maintain good situational awareness, they are the hardest tank to take down/lose in my opinion. It is the best tank to use like a tank (IMO).

Again, haven't used the prowler recently so don't want make misinformed statements when I'm not sure. I agree with you that the dual cannon is a disadvantage against armor. It is great against infantry, but is that a fair trade off? IDK. The mossie is the best ambush ESF for large battles and Tr have arguably have the best ( not necessarily the most exciting) launcher. Do you include overall empire capabilities in balance arguments or look at each class of unit/weapon separately. IDK again. That isn't something I don't want to worry about and will leave to the Devs :D.

Rambling again arn't I....

So my conclusion Van > Mag with an absent Prowler. Overall though pretty balanced, catering to different play styles with different tanks offering their own advantages and disadvantages.

[WSNeo]

DPS is damage per second which is a rate lol. Vanguard has a shield. Versatility is a good word but nonspecific and could mean almost anything.

Incorrect.

Rate of fire and damage per second are not the same. If there were the case, then by that logic TR would be doing the most damage, NC would have the highest survivability (with a goddamn scatmax and instagib phoenix), and the VS would have what tool to keep up with that?

These have been the three themes since Planetside 1.

TR Rate of fire: Miniguns, rapid fire MCG, lockdown ability, PS1 Max lockdown ability and PS1 Striker, and Deliverer variant having FOUR guns instead of the other empire's two. (This usually led to TR being the best at defending locations in PS1)

NC Damage per shot: PS1 Jackhammer, Scattermax, Vanguard main cannon, the PS2 Phoenix and NC Deliverer (an infantry murder machine) and the Enforcer having a single mounted Rocket launcher whereas the TR had a grenade launcher a rotary chaingun. (This led to NC being the scariest to fight indoors in PS1, the Scatmax's cannon was a traumatizing sound).

VS Versatility: PS1 Lasher that lashes around corners (and was far superior than it's PS2 incarnation), the Pulsar which didn't require armor piercing ammo and was able to quickly change from AI to AP instantly, the Magrider and Thresher that were both able to hover and float over bodies of water, and the VS MAX ability to jumpjet (usually over walls, up mountains, and over short rivers where the other two were bound to the ground).

Edit: inb4 ThisisntPlanetside1

[Varsam]

Yet you also failed to notice where I said I hadn't seen a lot of Mag lately, or how having the Driver as the Main Gunner it detrimental not only to it but also any argument to seperating the two for all MBTs.

Honestly, I bought an Annihilator JUST so I could lock onto Magriders, because at the time they were able to just CIRCLESTRAFE everything.

The Opening Post mentions that they've gotten that BACK, and I really don't have any current experience to know whether the Velocity increases were enough to compensate.

I'm sorry that I've been playing Terran Republic and that we've had a legitimate SHITBOX of an MBT for the most part...

Again you shoot yourself in the foot by admitting you have severely limited experience pertaining to the things that you're discussing.

[PredatorFour]

Most Mag drivers flat out buy a Saron (you RARELY see anything other than the stock gun) because the default front cannon and gunner weapons are ass.

lol riiiiiiggggghhhhhtttttt.....

I was kinda thinking yeh this guy has a point, until i read that! The stock mag cannon is badass, i can vouch for that as i use it all the time.

[Whiteagle]

Again you shoot yourself in the foot by admitting you have severely limited experience pertaining to the things that you're discussing.
I don't have limited experiance being SHOT AT by Roomba's, I just don't know if they currently can dodge bullets like they use to...
Most Vanu roll Air/Infiltrator Sundie on our server when ever I meet them...

[Varsam]

lol riiiiiiggggghhhhhtttttt.....

I was kinda thinking yeh this guy has a point, until i read that! The stock mag cannon is badass, i can vouch for that as i use it all the time.

...until you compare it to turret mounted cannons that don't catch on knee-high rocks.

I don't have limited experiance being SHOT AT by Roomba's, I just don't know if they currently can dodge bullets like they use to...
Most Vanu roll Air/Infiltrator Sundie on our server when ever I meet them...

I've been on both the giving and receiving end of mag play. They can't anymore, thanks to a combination of faster projectile speeds and a nerf to momentum transference from forward to lateral movement.

[WSNeo]

lol riiiiiiggggghhhhhtttttt.....

I was kinda thinking yeh this guy has a point, until i read that! The stock mag cannon is badass, i can vouch for that as i use it all the time.

vs Tanks over the AP variant?

[Sledgecrushr]

Mag needs a buff. Its not that It isnt on par with the other tanks, because it is. Its that at least on Connery and Ive heard on a lot of other servers that the vanu are suffering low pops. Even something that is just perceived as op will bring new numbers to their ranks.

[Assist]

Are people in this thread really arguing that the Magrider is better than the Prowler or Vanguard in 1v1 MBT?

This is worse than the argument that the Liberator should do the same damage as Rocket Pods do to the back of tanks.

[Whiteagle]

...until you compare it to turret mounted cannons that don't catch on knee-high rocks.
...That fucking Nose Cannon is the stupidest decision made in this game...

Who ever though that including two tanks only to invalidate the weaker one by making BOTH one-man opperable was a good idea should be SHOT.

I've been on both the giving and receiving end of mag play. They can't anymore, thanks to a combination of faster projectile speeds and a nerf to momentum transference from forward to lateral movement.
Ah, then I would agree that they do not need a nerf to armor.
As for buffs, yeah, welcome to Planetside 2, the TR version...

[Badjuju]

Mag needs a buff. Its not that It isnt on par with the other tanks, because it is. Its that at least on Connery and Ive heard on a lot of other servers that the vanu are suffering low pops. Even something that is just perceived as op will bring new numbers to their ranks.

Hopefully max changes will entice some redistribution of the pop. I think allot needs to be done from an aesthetic point as well. On top of being purple, people really don't get excited about their looks, or down right hate the spandex. I think a fun and appealing max along with more attractive/edgy/armored infantry designs would go a long way. Need appeals which help combat the 4th faction effect. Faction loyalty hasn't really developed much in PS2 thus far sadly.

[Whiteagle]

Hopefully max changes will entice some redistribution of the pop. I think allot needs to be done from an aesthetic point as well. On top of being purple, people really don't get excited about their looks, or down right hate the spandex. I think a fun and appealing max along with more attractive/edgy/armored infantry designs would go a long way. Need appeals which help combat the 4th faction effect. Faction loyalty hasn't really developed much in PS2 thus far sadly.
I keep saying SOE needs to fuel a Schism between a new, edgier Vanu and the purple-foam rubber-dinosaur Tobuscites!

[Badjuju]

I keep saying SOE needs to fuel a Schism between a new, edgier Vanu and the purple-foam rubber-dinosaur Tobuscites!

Ha ha very much so. I'm trying to forget that chapter of planetside. Really though, we need darker, edgier, more alien, and more armored design for the Vanu.

I think most of us can agree that yoga pants are the greatest invention of the 21st century, but there should be laws dictating who is allowed to wear them.