Combat Medic Developments

[Palerion]

I want to discuss a little bit about the upcoming "re-vamp" for the combat medic (I use the term "upcoming" loosely; it's a little ways away). It's not a pressing "issue" or anything, but I'd like to know what others think about it.

From what the roadmap says, they plan on adding more healing in all different sorts, sizes, packages, and polygons. From long-range healing devices to small healing "stations", there is a wide array of possibilities.

But, nothing is specifically pointed out in the roadmap in terms of adding to the "combat" side of the combat medic. My question is, do the developers intend to add more to the offensive abilities of the class? After all, it does seem like the combat medic is geared towards being the well-rounded, infantry based, central squad-member. Will its lethal utilities and abilities to gain the upper hand in a firefight develop along with its abilities to support others?

And, more importantly, would the rest of the community like to see the combat medic receive more offensive utilities and capabilities to emphasize their anti-infantry role in combat?

[Ghoest9]

Honestly medics are really good at their job right now.
They res, they heal, and they have a more than adequate gun if they want to shoot.

[Dragonskin]

Well if they are going to give medics more healing abilities they can't really make them more offensive. They are already fairly self sustaining as long as they can find decent cover to get their shields up. The Assault Rifles are all top notch in the game.. probably the best single weapon category in the game. What else can you give them without making them OP?

[Palerion]

Honestly medics are really good at their job right now.
They res, they heal, and they have a more than adequate gun if they want to shoot.

Yeah, I'm not really saying they're bad right now. But enhancements are in the roadmap.

I'm just wondering if people would rather see some development on their combat capabilities than one hundred new ways to do the same thing (healing/rezzing). Their gun is really good and I'm not denying that. I'm just saying it might be better to give its frontline assault role more emphasis if additions are going to be made. Not to make them overpowering or anything, but just more utilities for something other than healing.

[bpostal]

Give medics a radiator that heals friendly targets, while still functioning normally towards enemy players.

[Carbon Copied]

Aegis shielding and/or symbiotic healing back in if you please! :D;)

[Soothsayer]

I don't think a medic should get any kind of "poison dart" of any silly thing like that. As has been stated, we have the best AR and a ton of versatility, no need to swap out an awesome weapon for something shoehorned in because it's medic'ey.

However, I would like to see long range single person HoT's done by dart or other aimed, remote projectile methods. No tab targetting ofc, but something that is a generally weak or slow heal that can be done at a distance.

I'm reaching a little with this one, but maybe a toxin nade that would create visual hallucinations/decoys. I don't really like that one a whole lot though.

I'd like a more comprehensive heal method that can be swapped out and modified based on the needs of the person. TF2 (last I checked) has the standard medigun that overheals by a percentage and confers invulnerability, there's one that overheals and gives crits, there's one that allows the healer to move as fast as the heal target (but can't overheal).

I'm not saying invulns or crits are something I want, but you get to have a sense of which medigun you want to use depending on the person you're healing (and whether you're doing pocket medic or all around healer). Certain squad compositions could favour different heal styles, customization of the healing system is needed.

[WSNeo]

Why not like a Radiator grenade or something that resembles biological warfare. Also deployable medical stations are an awesome idea as well!

How about making higher levels of Triage heal people outside of and around the vehicles that they are in, think of a deployed sunderer acting as a heal/spawn station as long as the medic is within a certain vicinity of it, or even increasing the maximum amount of damage that shield and take before they drop.

[Rbstr]

It be kind of cool if you could do some different things with the tool and ability slots.

Some fun things:
Instead of "biological warfare", let's call it "nanite warfare". Pain-field generating things...the opposite of a healing grenade. DOT ammo that you can put instead of HV/SP.
Deployable healing instead of the tool.
Area-shield buff instead of the AOE heal.

[Kail]

A medic tool that can't revive, but once you've healed enough you can turn you and your target invincible for 10 seconds!

The medic and target should turn the color of their faction, and the medic should yell "Go Go Go!" when he activates the ube... MEDIC gun.

[BIGGByran]

Why not like a Radiator grenade or something that resembles biological warfare. Also deployable medical stations are an awesome idea as well!

I was thinking along the same lines. A "painfield" granade. It would deal 600 over 12 seconds, so 50 damage a second, as an irritation (or maybe even 600 damage over 6 second and works more as an Area Denial due to the higher damage). Works the same way as a healing granade, in terms of visual, but red instead of green.

[Palerion]

I do agree that the "biological warfare" approach would be nice. But clearly many people aren't very fond of that idea.

Still, I think the combat medic has two parts; combat, and medic, respectively. While lacking in vehicle killing power or self-beneficial abilities, it heals its teammates. Its powerful assault rifle aids its combat ability obviously, but it could still use more in regards to holding his own in firefights.

The way I see it, it is a soldier first, and should be working to push forward and take out enemies. Its medical applicator is there in the event that his allies are downed. It should still have utilities to work as a normal assault soldier. Much like the assault class in battlefield 3, a well-rounded anti-infantry class that can heal his squad members when necessary. I'm just saying, like any soldier, it needs developments of its combat abilities and should kill in its own way. It is a frontline soldier. If a medic is playing with his medical applicator constantly out, he is playing it wrong. He should focus on dealing damage and moving on with his squad until his medical aid is necessary.

[EvilNinjadude]

A medic tool that can't revive, but once you've healed enough you can turn you and your target invincible for 10 seconds!

The medic and target should turn the color of their faction, and the medic should yell "Go Go Go!" when he activates the ube... MEDIC gun.
xD well done sir.

You did not, however, consider adjusted run speeds. The first thing any pubbie will do when ubered is... charge. And here, if they charge, no way for a medic to keep up without putting away his tools and sprinting after him.

[Rbstr]

Oh, make the healing nade sticky.

[Palerion]

Perhaps something along the lines of a hand-held grenade launcher for anti-infantry purposes? Something more along the lines of a combat-related edge?

[Ohaunlaim]

nanite/poison filled bullets that increase time to revive according to percent damage done to target. (ie. tr medic does 35% damage to nc grunt. nc medic trying to revive that grunt would need 35% more time to res him.)

[Whiteagle]

I was thinking along the same lines. A "painfield" granade. It would deal 600 over 12 seconds, so 50 damage a second, as an irritation (or maybe even 600 damage over 6 second and works more as an Area Denial due to the higher damage). Works the same way as a healing granade, in terms of visual, but red instead of green.
Good, but I do wonder about the possibility of Viral Grenades...

Basically it would "infect" any enemy or ally who isn't a MAX within the blast Radius with a Status effect that slowly grinds away at their health and ONLY their health.
It's also "contagious" spreading the effect to anyone who gets within a certain radius of an infected.

It would probably only do about a half a normal health-bar of Damage over thirty seconds, but it would be a great way to thin out AND weaken Infantry Blobs.

Oh, make the healing nade sticky.
Yeah that would actually be pretty damn useful, since regular 'nades have a tendancy to bounce or fly through things...

[DeltaGun]

Id like to see medics get different type of "Packs" on their bck. they have an AoE healing one right now. How about one that recharges shields on a minute cooldown? One that AoE overcharges health to +200?

These seem alot more feasible than poison or DoTs. Medics already have good offense.

But as we saw in alpha footage, they considered adding poison gas weapons in the past (Liberator used to have a poison gas cannon).

[Whiteagle]

Id like to see medics get different type of "Packs" on their bck. they have an AoE healing one right now. How about one that recharges shields on a minute cooldown? One that AoE overcharges health to +200?
The only issue I have with this is Shield Recharging, just because that sounds like its a better fit for an Engineer Deployable.

But as we saw in alpha footage, they considered adding poison gas weapons in the past (Liberator used to have a poison gas cannon).
Well the fun of "Viral" grenades would be their "Contagious" status effect.

Yes, they primarily thin out and weaken Infantry Blobs, but its how the infected react to their condition that really spices things up.

For instance, say an infected defender runs back to a spawn room to get healed.
His stupidity has now weakened the entire bases defense, possibly exponentially if infected continue to stand in the spawn.

The opposite however is possible, with smart players suicidally charging the enemy when infected, turning this weapon of biological warfare back on those who originally used it.

[Nur]

The Medic is already extremely strong and a mobile AMS (!)

The only thing quite stupid is the healing grenades. These should be dropped on the floor not thrown

[Palerion]

The only issue I have with this is Shield Recharging, just because that sounds like its a better fit for an Engineer Deployable.


Well the fun of "Viral" grenades would be their "Contagious" status effect.

Yes, they primarily thin out and weaken Infantry Blobs, but its how the infected react to their condition that really spices things up.

For instance, say an infected defender runs back to a spawn room to get healed.
His stupidity has now weakened the entire bases defense, possibly exponentially if infected continue to stand in the spawn.

The opposite however is possible, with smart players suicidally charging the enemy when infected, turning this weapon of biological warfare back on those who originally used it.

See, that is how I could see the medic being of offensive value to the team. I know healing is already a great tactical advantage, but I'm talking about dealing damage. Poisoning enemies, firing things that slowly chip away at their health (and self confidence :P).

It has the frontline role that justifies more emphasis on its combat abilities. Think along the lines of the medic from Global Agenda; I know, a totally different beast. But that game managed to make every class just as scary as an individual damage dealing force. Robotics can tear everything to shreds with its turrets, Assault has heavy weaponry of all sorts, Recon is an expert at stealth and wields powerful rifles and explosive devices, and most importantly, Medic has the ability to release toxins into the air and poison enemies with his knife, both of which can nearly kill his enemy.

In a grand scale war like planetside, I think it would be cool to give a certain fear factor like this to combat medics, making enemies think twice before engaging them, and giving them unique damage-dealing power towards opponents.

[Sledgecrushr]

I think a medic should be able to apply temporary buffs. An example would be give a "shot" to a heavy assault and for the next five minutes or so he can run 10% faster.
This kind of temporary buff system could add a lot of value and imo some more depth to the cm playstyle.

[Palerion]

I think a medic should be able to apply temporary buffs. An example would be give a "shot" to a heavy assault and for the next five minutes or so he can run 10% faster.
This kind of temporary buff system could add a lot of value and imo some more depth to the cm playstyle.

Would you include with this the ability to self-inject? Left click = self-injection, right click = target-injection?

I think it would be a great option. It could allow the combat medic to choose between an array of unique effects to apply to themselves and their teammates, giving them a unique edge based on the buff they choose. It would make the class more versatile and, undoubtedly, more fun. Definitely a better option than giving them six different ways to do the same task: healing.

I could imagine quite a few buffs being implemented without necessarily overpowering the class, but certainly giving it more capability to, when necessary, provide itself and its squad with a temporary enhancement to their abilities. Some of these buffs could be, as mentioned, a speed buff, maybe a shield buff, health buff, accuracy buff, etc. It would make the class much more dynamic and emphasize its front-line orientation.

[Boildown]

Medics are already strong, or maybe its because I play more than the average bear. I can think of lots of cool things to give them but will quickly lead to the realm of OP.

I guess as each class is reviewed giving medics additional stuff is ok if everyone is going to get more stuff as well. I just don't want time to kill to decrease. It should increase if anything. That means more defensive buffs. Temporary health increases isn't a bad idea, especially if there's a "hangover" afterwards.

I wouldn't mind seeing "luxury" certs added to each class. 2000 points for a 3rd brick of C4 for example, or for even more shielding.

The only medic ability that's really lacking is the regen in vehicle thing. Its pretty lame. I'd rather have additional options to put in that "slot", if it can be considered a slot, of equally lame utility, but at least I get to pick and choose from. Again, giving an actual "good" additional ability could lead to overpoweredness for medics unless everyone is getting more stuff.

[Soothsayer]

Medics are already strong, or maybe its because I play more than the average bear. I can think of lots of cool things to give them but will quickly lead to the realm of OP.

I guess as each class is reviewed giving medics additional stuff is ok if everyone is going to get more stuff as well. I just don't want time to kill to decrease. It should increase if anything. That means more defensive buffs. Temporary health increases isn't a bad idea, especially if there's a "hangover" afterwards.

I wouldn't mind seeing "luxury" certs added to each class. 2000 points for a 3rd brick of C4 for example, or for even more shielding.

The only medic ability that's really lacking is the regen in vehicle thing. Its pretty lame. I'd rather have additional options to put in that "slot", if it can be considered a slot, of equally lame utility, but at least I get to pick and choose from. Again, giving an actual "good" additional ability could lead to overpoweredness for medics unless everyone is getting more stuff.

I generally agree with this, would like to see luxury and convenience stuff at the higher tier. I'd think that adding luxury stuff should come with a pre-requisite amount of other medic certs (or a hybrid multi-cert prereq) to unlock them.

Someone mentioned run speed stims, I think that would be cool. Biological effects are generally a good thing. I'd want the stims to be a purchasable consumable, though cheap with a xp payoff for kills by the person who's been boosted.

I'd really like to see a reworking of the basic heal mechanics to allow for greater adaptability based on squad composition. Different ways to heal that have different advantages and drawbacks.

[Palerion]

Medics are strong with respect to their ability to support their team, but as an individual unit, not so much. Yes they can heal themselves, which is useful to an extent, but the AOE heal is more-so intended to be used in groups. Any soldier can carry up to 4 medkits with them, more than enough to support their lifespan.

The only thing a medic has going for him otherwise is his assault rifle, which is an undoubtedly powerful weapon, but he can't fly, or put up an overshield, or set up turrets, or cloak. Giving him medkit-like stimulant injectors would allow him to overcome enemies and adapt to situations by temporarily increasing his abilities.

It seems like a cool idea to me. But really, there are numerous possibilities that would fit the medic's role. Aside from the buff-injectors, other things, such as maybe a colored force-field riot shield kind of deal, removing the ability to carry weapons but allowing the player to move safely across open ground, whether to navigate the battlefield or reach a downed soldier. Also as mentioned above, biological grenades.

It would all still force the class to sacrifice. A buff-injector could come at the cost of a utility slot. The riot shield-like tool could replace the ability slot. Either way, it's a trade off, and would not make the class overpowered. Biological grenades would, obviously, take up the grenade slot. It all comes at a tradeoff, which ensures that the class will not become overpowered. It just allows the player to spec the class out more to their liking. Using the shield removes AOE heal, using stimulant injectors removes any anti-vehicle capability (C4).

[Sledgecrushr]

The medics combat efficiency is already very high. I would like to see some more utility out of the class and having a mmorpg background it inly seems natural to go with a buff system with a timer and maybe a cooldown.

[Boildown]

Medics are strong with respect to their ability to support their team, but as an individual unit, not so much. Yes they can heal themselves, which is useful to an extent, but the AOE heal is more-so intended to be used in groups. Any soldier can carry up to 4 medkits with them, more than enough to support their lifespan.

The only thing a medic has going for him otherwise is his assault rifle, which is an undoubtedly powerful weapon, but he can't fly, or put up an overshield, or set up turrets, or cloak.

You forgot that the ability to self-heal without consumables allows the combat medic to put combat first, medic second, and be an infantry wrecking ball on the battle field, always being topped up to full health without having to consider "if I use this heal now, will it be wasted?". And they still have access to the medi-kit injectors for moments when the self-heal runs out. And you forgot to mention reviving fall teammates, which obviously scales incredibly well in team-oriented play. And medics get this team-oriented ability and the solo-oriented self-heal ability simultaneously.

That said,

It would all still force the class to sacrifice. A buff-injector could come at the cost of a utility slot. The riot shield-like tool could replace the ability slot. Either way, it's a trade off, and would not make the class overpowered. Biological grenades would, obviously, take up the grenade slot. It all comes at a tradeoff, which ensures that the class will not become overpowered. It just allows the player to spec the class out more to their liking. Using the shield removes AOE heal, using stimulant injectors removes any anti-vehicle capability (C4).

I agree this is a good idea as its a tradeoff of a good ability for another good ability.

[Rbstr]

An "infantry wrecking ball"...eh...I don't want to characterize it as bad but it's mostly not as good as LA/HA are at killing things.

Yes, the AR is better than the carbine. Better than the LMG? Sometimes, maybe. But, without the Jetpack and manuverability, they can't C4 things particularly well, and that's all the AV they get. Maneuverability has similar effects on shotgun usefulness.
The AOE/self heal is good when you're fighting a more fleeting hit-and-run sort of thing, but the personal shield outclasses for general survivability, given medikits.

It's a good class and certainly a big multiplier of the effectiveness of groups. But it's really not more effective at shooting stuff than anything else is.

Besides simply new and interesting ways to heal, Or troll, in the case of pain-fields, why not solidify their de facto "Medium Assault" role a bit and let them drop the AOE/self heal for light AV (so more of anti-max) tools - LAW equivalents.
I think that's key for enhancing the "combat" aspect: sacrificing the self heal for more power.

[BlaxicanX]

The medic doesn't need any buffs to its combat capability. It's already a member of the "holy trinity" of the classes that are required to win battles: Medic/Engineer/Heavy Assault.

If any classes need buffs to become more than just the niche/farm classes, it's the LA and Infiltrator.

[Chaff]

.
The Biological "infection" idea is quite interesting. First, it must be structured to absolutely prevent exploitation.......guys from "other" empires will log on as YOUR Empire, and, after their buddies shoot them .... they would intentionally run around spreading the virus - if that loophole is left open.

The virus could be shot into the enemy zerg somewhere ..... those in the damage field (Infection Zone) would auto-transport .....back to the nearest SUNDY of base/outpost their Empire owns at that time. If there was a Medic from their Empire at their "Bio-Infection Cooldown" Station, their own Empire Medic could drastically speed up the "anti-biotic heal" to remove the "infection". Otherwise, "infected" have to stay in a friendly spawn (Infection ?) Room - which could make them wait 3 minutes before they can redeploy......there could be certs (or Implant ?) to counter this bio-warfare aspect. Some players would rage over this kind of inconvenience. It would sure add interesting wrinkles to the game ...... seems like a LOT of potential XP for Medics.....ALL infected could be auto-deployed to a Biological Decontamination Room at each Warpgate ..... it'd be the ONLY PLACE in each Empire Warpgate where one could gain XP towards gaining Certs. The Un-infection would be facilitated by Properly Certed Medics, or guys would have to wait-it-out. Then, Redploy back to where they want.....with option to return to where they got the infection. Once "cured" of an "infection", you are IMMUNE from catching it again for 1 hour. Sure, some Medics "seem" to be getting easy XP at the Warpgate, but they are NOT available on the front lines healing guys still fighting, so there's real strategic meaning behind this posters idea.

[Shamrock]

Global Agenda had Poison Medics, basically you could cert into offensive toxin skills, eg AoE poison gas grenades.

[Palerion]

The medic doesn't need any buffs to its combat capability. It's already a member of the "holy trinity" of the classes that are required to win battles: Medic/Engineer/Heavy Assault.

If any classes need buffs to become more than just the niche/farm classes, it's the LA and Infiltrator.

Absolutely not true.

Look at the Engineer:

It is full of class-specific tools and gadgets that make it a viable option as a self-sufficient soldier.


Proximity Mines
Turrets
Sticky Grenades
Tank Mines


The engineer is not just a support class. Those "gadgets", if you will, make the class stand out a bit more as a defensive, trap-setting, fortification-building kind of class. It is designed to be an extremely effective killer in defensive situations. So, aside from the repair tools and ammo boxes, which are designed to give the class a support role, the engineer is given other tools for his own combat role in the battle.

Look at the Combat Medic:

It is lacking in class-specific utilities, weaponry, etc. to fulfill a combat role aside from its support role.


AOE Heal
Medical Applicator
Healing Grenades
Revive Grenades


As you can see, not a single one of these tools and/or abilities are made to give the combat medic an actual combat role (AOE heal is debatable; it is meant to heal those around the soldier, and is easily replaced as a self-healer by the medical applicator). They are all there so he can fulfill a support role. Just as the engineer is given a unique combat role outside of supplying ammo and repairing, the combat medic should be given a unique combat role outside of healing and reviving.

Both classes, aside from their support roles, should be their own type of soldier. Just as the engineer is given strong defensive capabilities, the combat medic, with its frontline offensive role, should be given strong offensive capabilities. Buff injections, protective shields, biological weapons/explosives, the combat medic is more than just a scrub patching up the wounds of others. It is an offensive soldier with an anti-infantry role that should be emphasized through its future developments.

[Whiteagle]

The Biological "infection" idea is quite interesting. First, it must be structured to absolutely prevent exploitation.......guys from "other" empires will log on as YOUR Empire, and, after their buddies shoot them .... they would intentionally run around spreading the virus - if that loophole is left open.
Well if worst comes to worst, you can always just euthanize anyone infected.

That's the thing, as a griefing tool it be a bit too weak to be anything more then an annoyance...

...Still, temporary immunity after being exposed but not dying might be necessary...

Could also be something like a Default for the Buff Injector, Antibiotics which would insta-cure an Infected.

[BlaxicanX]

Absolutely not true.

Look at the Engineer:

It is full of class-specific tools and gadgets that make it a viable option as a self-sufficient soldier.


Proximity Mines
Turrets
Sticky Grenades
Tank Mines


The engineer is not just a support class. Those "gadgets", if you will, make the class stand out a bit more as a defensive, trap-setting, fortification-building kind of class. It is designed to be an extremely effective killer in defensive situations. So, aside from the repair tools and ammo boxes, which are designed to give the class a support role, the engineer is given other tools for his own combat role in the battle.

Look at the Combat Medic:

It is lacking in class-specific utilities, weaponry, etc. to fulfill a combat role aside from its support role.


AOE Heal
Medical Applicator
Healing Grenades
Revive Grenades


As you can see, not a single one of these tools and/or abilities are made to give the combat medic an actual combat role (AOE heal is debatable; it is meant to heal those around the soldier, and is easily replaced as a self-healer by the medical applicator). They are all there so he can fulfill a support role. Just as the engineer is given a unique combat role outside of supplying ammo and repairing, the combat medic should be given a unique combat role outside of healing and reviving.

Both classes, aside from their support roles, should be their own type of soldier. Just as the engineer is given strong defensive capabilities, the combat medic, with its frontline offensive role, should be given strong offensive capabilities. Buff injections, protective shields, biological weapons/explosives, the combat medic is more than just a scrub patching up the wounds of others. It is an offensive soldier with an anti-infantry role that should be emphasized through its future developments.

Terrible argument. The notion that "Engineers have a whole bunch of stuff so medics should too!" is fallacious. Engineers are not medics. They're different classes with different roles- trying to compare them is apples to oranges.

The majority of what you just listed for Engineers are niche and highly situational, and none of it sans the repair gun is as useful as the healing gun, which literally, as an item, already has some of the highest utility in the game, being useful in basically every single situation. Engineers need to have a Mana turret and a repair gun on top of their mines because mines are basically useless outside of farming. In a game where people travel in massive caravans of vehicles and each team has unlimited manpower, killing one or two people or a couple of vehicles with your small handful of mines and bombs is nothing more than a slight irritation to the poor fool who got killed. By comparison, there is never a situation where being able to revive someone from 10 feet away with a magical healing gun that never runs out of ammo or needs to cool down, or having the ability to quickly heal everyone within your aura for free, is not useful. A couple decent medics can keep an entire push or defense alive when supply lines are cut off, an engineer can not. And this is on top of having an extremely solid assault rifle that's excellent at all ranges, and healing grenades, and revive grenades.

Medics are fine as they are. They're already solid front-line fighters and are a solid support class, not too mention one of the best farm classes in the game. If SoE wants to stack some more cool shit on them like zombie grenades or whatever, then okay, but let's not pretend that the class is in some dire need of an upgrade. There are other classes that are indeed in need of such an upgrade.

[Palerion]

Actually it was a fine argument.

I think your entire perception of the discussion is off a bit. I did not say the Combat Medic is in dire need of a revamp. But it's a feature listed in the roadmap, and I'm saying they don't need ten new ways to heal their allies. If they are going to recieve more utilities, it should be more offensive. They are a solid support class. You underestimate the MANA turret though. It is a valuable killing tool that is matched by no other in the game. Reviving is a powerful support capability, but like the engineer, he needs his own offensive utility.

When you get right down to it people aren't going to play the game just so they can heal people. You can keep using the assault rifle argument, but that's no match for a jetpack, an overshield, a turret, or a cloaking device. You simply can't leave a class with only support capabilities. There must be more to attract players to use it.

And, the Infiltrator and Light Assault need a buff in a different area. They need a more defined support role, to help their team and be of value. They kill just fine, using their cloaking and jetpacks to surprise their enemies. You have to understand what needs work in each of the classes; the changes we are suggesting to combat medic are to give him a combat job outside of his support role. The suggested changes for light assaults and infiltrators are to give them a support role.

[Gatekeeper]

I really think you underestimate how strong CMs actually are - IMO they're probably the best 1-on-1 killing class in the game, certainly at medium to short range. I don't play medic to support people (although I get a bunch of XP doing that anyway...) but because their AR is so damn strong and versatile.

I've got no objection to adding more variety to the CM, just for fun, but they certainly don't need any more power than they have already - and any extra offence they get should definitely come at the cost of their self-healing.

[Palerion]

any extra offence they get should definitely come at the cost of their self-healing.

Which is the point. It is all meant to come at a tradeoff.

[Sledgecrushr]

I dont think the medic needs any extra offense. What I would like to see is more utility out of the combat medic. Soe has an opportunity to make the medic class different from the other classes by emphasizing its squad support role.

[Palerion]

But shouldn't every class be supporting its squad? The only difference is how they do it. You can make the class a straight support class, but it will result in the same thing: the majority of the population will stick with heavy assault as it is the only frontline killing class. I think the combat medic just fits the medium assault role and could use the option to give up its utility or ability for more assault-like utilities or abilities.

[Sledgecrushr]

But shouldn't every class be supporting its squad? The only difference is how they do it. You can make the class a straight support class, but it will result in the same thing: the majority of the population will stick with heavy assault as it is the only frontline killing class. I think the combat medic just fits the medium assault role and could use the option to give up its utility or ability for more assault-like utilities or abilities.

I think what you are asking for is kind of an op endlessly self healing heavy assault clone. And we shouldnt really go down this path. Combat medic with arguably the best rifle in the game plus hand grenades plus c4 allthe while endlessly self healing is already an awesome front line trooper. So now the consensus seems to be a weapon delivery device that can literally kill everyone in the game?

My vote is for more utility. Keep the cm as a competent front line soldier and expand the options on helping their squad mates to win battles.

[Palerion]

And more utilities is fine; but, it must be something other than a new way to heal. That just doesn't seem innovative or fun in any way.

[Sledgecrushr]

And I completely agree. Combat medic right now has healing and rezzing down to a fine art. But there are other routes that can be pursued in making a cm more effective as a utility player for itself and his/her squad. I think if done right this class could be fun for that chunk of people who cant shoot straight. Thats a big demographic for soe to get into.

[Palerion]

For people who can't shoot straight? Same deal as global agenda. But by that do you mean it kills without having to shoot straight, or it is just a support class? I come from battlefield, so when I play medic, I'm used to also being a powerful killing force.

[Juryrig]

For people who can't shoot straight? Same deal as global agenda. But by that do you mean it kills without having to shoot straight, or it is just a support class? I come from battlefield, so when I play medic, I'm used to also being a powerful killing force.

People who can't shoot straight (ie - me. I really am woeful) get to feel a lot less useless by having a bunch of utility stuff we can do that helps the team and doesn't involve direct combat. I tend to play engie rather than medic, but the principle is the same.

More utility stuff gives me more to do in between bouts of trying to shoot people and failing.

I suspect that's what Sledge means, although if I'm mis-interpreting him I'll apologise in advance.

[Sledgecrushr]

People who can't shoot straight (ie - me. I really am woeful) get to feel a lot less useless by having a bunch of utility stuff we can do that helps the team and doesn't involve direct combat. I tend to play engie rather than medic, but the principle is the same.

More utility stuff gives me more to do in between bouts of trying to shoot people and failing.

I suspect that's what Sledge means, although if I'm mis-interpreting him I'll apologise in advance.

Spot on brother. You see I brought my best friend into this game. He is a 38 yr old who has never played a fps game in his life. His kd ratio is .05. Its incredibly frustrating for him to be so impotent at shooting people and all ge really has to offer is heals and random rezzes. He has effectively quit the game. So Im thinking a way for people like my bud to be able to enjoy and contribute all the while being completely ineffective as a bullet thrower.

[Palerion]

Yeah, I get that. I don't think that means future utilities should be limited to this playstyle. But there should be some of it. The buffs could actually cater to both playstyles though:

For instance, if I am alone, I can use my shielding/health buff before engaging an enemy (for instance, a heavy assault) and have a better chance of coming out on top. But, in order to support my team, I could inject my teammates and support them. It benefits both the accurate fighting soldier and the supporting soldier's playstyle.

[Sledgecrushr]

Yeah, I get that. I don't think that means future utilities should be limited to this playstyle. But there should be some of it. The buffs could actually cater to both playstyles though:

For instance, if I am alone, I can use my shielding/health buff before engaging an enemy (for instance, a heavy assault) and have a better chance of coming out on top. But, in order to support my team, I could inject my teammates and support them. It benefits both the accurate fighting soldier and the supporting soldier's playstyle.

A really spectacular plan. What we can look forward to though are prolly just more assault rifles.

[Palerion]

Well, if they are considering a revamp in the roadmap, I think they'll do something. But they had better remove their idea of adding even more new healing tools. A "long range healing device" is not what we need. I don't think anyone cares to be a healing sniper. Just hope SOE does what's right

[Rbstr]

I think what you are asking for is kind of an op endlessly self healing heavy assault clone.

When someone says says "at the expense of the AOE/Self heal" this is exactly not what anyone is asking for.

The example of the engineer as a class with very potent offensive capabilities while retaining very important support functions is exactly the model the medic can follow.
The engy can not only repair max and vechs, but drop ammo (a passive activity, which can be completely continuous, unlike the AOE heal) and use one of the most powerful AV weapons and drop mines or C4 and throw nades and shoot carbines all with one load out.
Lots of these things are unique to the engy class.

The Combat medic on the other hand can revive and heal others and heal himself and use either support nades or the frag and then C4. He gets the ARs, and sure those are a little better than a carbine, it's not like they're some magical be-all-end-all gun, the weapon spreadsheet makes this quite clear.
When stacked against other classes, they only have two unique things: Reviving and healing others (all classes can heal themselves) and ARs. And to truly count ARs as being unique is a stretch.

I would love more and varied support opportunities, like buffs. But the offensive abilities of the class should certainly be expanded as well. Expand on the "medium assault" role or put in unique things that cause damage or types of enemy incapacitation/inconvenience, at the expense of the support and especially the self-support.

[CraazyCanuck]

What I would like to see is advanced squad/class synergy that are made available after certing the last rank in a particular utility/ability tree.

For instance:
Medics - the ability to increase the range their AE heal can affect their squad mates only or the range they can hit squad mates with med gun heal/rez. Any use of this particular AE heal, does not affect non-squad mates. The medic has to make the choice which option they want to load-out, either healing squadmates only at increased range, or all allies at normal efficiency.
-ae regenerative buffs equivalent to restore kits for squad mates only but have to sacrifice the grenade slot for it. Unlike the nanite grenade, this buff is an injection type buff that has a timer and is mobile while not being centralized on the medic. While timer is in effect the medic can not swap out at a terminal to switch back to grenades.

Infiltrators - the ability to pass on their self cloaking ability to a vehicle. They have to forgo the use of their self cloak to loadout with the vehicle cloak certification, and the cool down is greatly increased when decloaking the vehicle as the power source takes longer to recover for the larger surface area. Vehicles can not fire or spawn when cloaked and the cloak cannot be reinitiated immediately. Full cooldown time applies regardless if the full timer is used or not.
-forgo their cloaking of any sort to broadcast radar interference out in a radius (equivalent to the stealth cert) for their squad while on foot. While visible to the nake eye, no radar signatures will show even when shots are fired. Timer would be double of the equivalent rank of cloaking.

Engineers - similar to the medic - AE repair over focused repair. One or the other and the ae is squad mate max and or vehicles only, with the strength of the repair less then what a focused repair would be.
-AE shield buff - Engineer sacrifices repair ability for the ability to enhance squad mates shieldling and improve the regeneration timer.
-Deployable fortifcations - (This could get crazy) but even a small deloyable wall with minor overhed cover would be excellent. Of course a timer would be involved
If/Once deployable fortiifcations are implemented, ranks or trees of for different fortifications could be made available with further possibilities for synergy with other classes.

Heavy Assault - Allow for them to share their activated shield with their squadmates, each rank either increasing the number of squadmates that can be included or instead simply create an AE shield that will include all squadmates within the radius, with each rank increasing the timer. Not stackable with other HA in their squad who may have this ability. Cooldown time will be much greater then their personal shield timer, as the power source recovers.
Shockwave - AE damage effect. Shields are overcharged and damaging energy effect blasts out from the HA in radius. Each rank increases range and shortens cooldown timer which will be much greater as the power source recovers. HA will not have access to personal shield during this cooldown time.

Light Assault - (tougher one and not necessarily squad specific)
Squad specific - Line Grapple to allow squad mates to repelle to the LA's position up to a certain range.

Non-Squad specific
Afterburner (think Max Sprint but faster) - Expend all fuel of pack for a significant burst in speed and the equivalent of a parachute deploys to slow descent for a small period of time to allow a chance to survive while the pack recharges. LA can still take critical dmg from impacts that may cause death. Cooldown timer increased over that of the standard timer. Would allow a quicker means of reaching ascents for veterans of the jetpack.
Debris Field - Veteran LA have gained the expertise to use their packs to cause a debris field that impedes all vision around them
Improved Jetpack - improved side strafing and turnining while in the air.

Edit: Apologize if any of this was already stated, was writing this up between customers

[Palerion]

Yeah, Rbstr does understand what I'm getting at. You do sacrifice that self-healing survivability. It's just meant to let you spec your medic to be a more fierce force against other infantry, SUCH AS heavy assaults. He trades self-healing (long-term survivability) for more killing or damage absorbing power (moment-to-moment, or firefight, survivability), and maintains his ability to heal and support others.

CraazyCanuck: That is extremely broad and kind of unrelated to the original post. We're talking about the future development of the combat medic and how it should evolve. Not really talking about making classes have crazy abilities.

[OctavianAXFive]

I’m sure the devs will come up with all sorts of lovely healing tools for medics to play with but for my money I’d like to see some faction specific stuff.

Here’s my crack at it.

TR Stimulant

-Movement Speed while sprinting, walking, crouching, and ADS all increased when medic uses the “F” ability.

Pros

-You can feel like a real drugged up psychopath

Cons

-Replaces the AoE heal ability

VS Life Steal Rifle

-The medic shoots enemies with the rifle (via energy beam), returning a percentage of the health back to the medic and a smaller percentage to the soldiers nearest the medic

Pros

-Lots of healing can be done with this.
-It will look really cool
-Low recoil
-Very accurate
-Continuous beam of energy

Cons

-Would be a very low damage weapon
-Replaces clearly superior ARs

NC Heal Shield

-As a target is being healed, a small damage resistance shield is placed on them
Edit: Hell you could just replace the healing with a resistance shield gun altogether now that I think about it.

Pros

-Applies to fully healed targets
-Applies to targets being resurrected

Cons

-A different healing tool, thus requiring recertification
-The tool has a slower healing/revive rate

General Notes:

Possibility 1: These are one rank powers available for 100 certs. This approach works well with having a gun in the mix so you don’t have to worry about pricing the gun differently to compensate for other powers having scaling ranks.

Possibility 2: They are multi rank powers with the first power starting at 100 certs. Each rank would scale like vehicle chassis. The gun would have its own cert tree that basically acts as a power buff to the gun, increasing only the healing returned per damage output, but not the stats of the gun itself.

The only other certable change to the gun is the scope

The NC resist shield stacks with HA advanced shielding (including the HA resist shield cert tree)

In beta they had a medic cert tree that allowed the medic to get health back for healing a target. If they implement this mechanic again, and a player certs into it, the resist shield will apply to the medic as well.

TR movement speed increases do not stack

[Sledgecrushr]

Heres a couple of ideas for some short term medic buffs..
Super strength, one shot with knives
Super speed, run faster for a short time
Quick reflexes, ADS time is improved
Over healed, get some extra health for a short while
Red eyes, short duration night vision
Light feet, no footstep sounds while cloaked
Acuity, ability to fix stuff slightly faster
HoT, heals a very small bit of health over time lasts 5 minutes or so
Super hearing, hear ambient noise over battle noise
Springs, temporarily increases your jumping ability

I can go on forever. With buffs I could make everyone better.

[Sledgecrushr]

I’m sure the devs will come up with all sorts of lovely healing tools for medics to play with but for my money I’d like to see some faction specific stuff.

Here’s my crack at it.

TR Stimulant

-Movement Speed while sprinting, walking, crouching, and ADS all increased when medic uses the “F” ability.

Pros

-You can feel like a real drugged up psychopath

Cons

-Replaces the AoE heal ability

VS Life Steal Rifle

-The medic shoots enemies with the rifle (via energy beam), returning a percentage of the health back to the medic and a smaller percentage to the soldiers nearest the medic

Pros

-Lots of healing can be done with this.
-It will look really cool
-Low recoil
-Very accurate
-Continuous beam of energy

Cons

-Would be a very low damage weapon
-Replaces clearly superior ARs

NC Heal Shield

-As a target is being healed, a small damage resistance shield is placed on them
Edit: Hell you could just replace the healing with a resistance shield gun altogether now that I think about it.

Pros

-Applies to fully healed targets
-Applies to targets being resurrected

Cons

-A different healing tool, thus requiring recertification
-The tool has a slower healing/revive rate

General Notes:

Possibility 1: These are one rank powers available for 100 certs. This approach works well with having a gun in the mix so you don’t have to worry about pricing the gun differently to compensate for other powers having scaling ranks.

Possibility 2: They are multi rank powers with the first power starting at 100 certs. Each rank would scale like vehicle chassis. The gun would have its own cert tree that basically acts as a power buff to the gun, increasing only the healing returned per damage output, but not the stats of the gun itself.

The only other certable change to the gun is the scope

The NC resist shield stacks with HA advanced shielding (including the HA resist shield cert tree)

In beta they had a medic cert tree that allowed the medic to get health back for healing a target. If they implement this mechanic yagain, and a player certs into it, the resist shield will apply to the medic as well.

TR movement speed increases do not stack

Resist shields arent like a biological function. If anyone could buff resist shields it would be an engineer.

[Palerion]

OctavianAXFive:

Those suggestions seem cool, but awful diverse. I would rather simply see faction-specific weapons for each class. Just like the heavy assault has, give combat medic faction-specific AR variants (or something completely different).

The TR Stimulant, as you mentioned, is a good idea; I just wouldn't want stimulants to be faction specific. Let combat medics across all factions have the same wide array of options for stimulants to use.

But, my question is, would this be an ability, bound to the F key, or a replacement of the utility slot? Would stimulants be released to oneself or others in AOE charges or injections?

Sledgecrushr:

I'm afraid a lot of those would not work. Jump height, night vision, super strength, etc. seem to be a bit too gimicky. But, a run speed increase, as mentioned, would be good. A health increase would be useful. Quick reflexes sounds too call-of-duty-ish. I'd sooner say something that would reduce recoil or CoF, but even that seems a bit far-fetched. These stimulants need to sound reasonable and useful.

[Sledgecrushr]

OctavianAXFive:

Those suggestions seem cool, but awful diverse. I would rather simply see faction-specific weapons for each class. Just like the heavy assault has, give combat medic faction-specific AR variants (or something completely different).

The TR Stimulant, as you mentioned, is a good idea; I just wouldn't want stimulants to be faction specific. Let combat medics across all factions have the same wide array of options for stimulants to use.

But, my question is, would this be an ability, bound to the F key, or a replacement of the utility slot? Would stimulants be released to oneself or others in AOE charges or injections?

Sledgecrushr:

I'm afraid a lot of those would not work. Jump height, night vision, super strength, etc. seem to be a bit too gimicky. But, a run speed increase, as mentioned, would be good. A health increase would be useful. Quick reflexes sounds too call-of-duty-ish. I'd sooner say something that would reduce recoil or CoF, but even that seems a bit far-fetched. These stimulants need to sound reasonable and useful.

When I said jump height increase it would be like a six foot jump instead of three foot jump we have now. Quick reflexes, todays military pilots often get small doses of amphetamines to increase their reaction time. A cof or recoil buff is mechanical and would have to do with the engineer. Im looking at stuff that would be biologically possible.

Temporary night vision seems pretty cool to me, would love to have that and a reflex scope.

[OctavianAXFive]

I'm pretty sure some NC engineer can whip up something to give that energy beam the medics shoot an over shield power. I mean, nanites right? ;)

As for the diversity thing:

Reading through there are some fine ideas being presented here about stuff all the medics could use.

But something I think that the devs are trying to work on is making more faction specific stuff. I must admit, I don't like their handling of asymmetrical small arms balance at all. (Another argument entirely though)

The ERLs are great though, and they do just what Higby seems to have wanted them to do. They give the empires flavor. They change the way you approach them both as an enemy and as a user.

Are they well balanced to serve in their roles? Well that's definitely debatable.

If you look at the SoE line of thinking in regards to the Max suites, it's clear that Maxes are getting Empire Specific Powers in one form or another. As has been pointed out HA's get special guns.

Why not take a similar approach with all classes? Obviously the differences need to be minor but the challenge is trying to come up with some differences that are useful and change how each faction plays.

I encourage people posting future ideas to keep faction variety in mind whether its about medics or any other class.

But, my question is, would this be an ability, bound to the F key, or just a replacement of the utility slot? Would stimulants be released to oneself or others in AOE charges or injections?

It would play almost identically to the AoE heal bound to the F key and would go in that same certification slot. So no, it would not take up a utility spot. And in case anyone is wondering I have a perfectly passable lore explanation as to how the medic achieves this.

All TR soldiers have stimulants built into their suites that are activated via proper authorization from medical personnel.

Edit: Hey look I'm a Corporal now!

[Palerion]

I'm not sure about it being AOE though. The effects that I would imagine these stimulants having would be quite noticable; for instance, the health stimulant could mean the difference between life and death when a soldier runs into a powerful enemy. It may be overpowered to allow it to be applied to the user and everybody surrounding him. I think making it an injector like the medkits would be more ideal, so the player could inject himself or another player.

If it was an AOE effect, and all surrounding players recieved an extra chunk of health, wouldn't that be too strong?

[OctavianAXFive]

The stimulant I'm proposing doesn't do anything for health. It's a movement speed increase and probably a pretty potent one at max level.

I'm not sure how this one in particular is the most troubling. I was far more worried about the NC shielding and spent some time pondering if it would be too OP.

Also the VS life steal gun is stupid powerful in large groups for healing output. Might be too good when massed up.

Anyway, they were just musings to get people thinking about faction specific stuff.

[Sledgecrushr]

I'm not sure how this one in particular is the most troubling. I was far more worried about the NC shielding and spent some time pondering if it would be too OP.

I can see nc shielding being some kind of mechanical buff an engineer could do.

[Palerion]

I'm still stuck on the injector stimulants. I think there would only need to be about 3, and I'm not exactly sure how it would be done. AOE would probably be OP. I don't think it could be placed in the tool slot because that would make the class, as you said before Sledge, a "self-healing Heavy Assault". Which would also be bad. But there needs to be a way that it can be either applied to a single target or applied to oneself, while still remaining an ability and removing the AOE heal ability.

[OctavianAXFive]

@Sledgecrushr

Yes, I realize that an overshield sounds more like something the engineer might do but given that the medic's role is keeping infantry alive, I don't think it's a stretch. Beyond even that though, I wouldn't want this being applied to NC Max suites who already have shielding. Just imagine how impossible it would be to kill if they had an engineer not only repairing it, but giving it an additional shield to the one it's already getting!

@Palerion

Not sure I follow what you mean
I'm still stuck on the injector stimulants. I think there would only need to be about 3, and I'm not exactly sure how it would be done. AOE would probably be OP. I don't think it could be placed in the tool slot because that would make the class, as you said before Sledge, a "self-healing Heavy Assault". Which would also be bad. But there needs to be a way that it can be either applied to a single target or applied to oneself, while still remaining an ability and removing the AOE heal ability.

[Sledgecrushr]

@octavia instead of an overshield buff maybe just a general bullet resistance buff. For instance I inject heavy assault with nanites that rush to the skin and temporarily harden your skin into a carapace giving you 5% damage resistance from bullets but at the same time you take a 5% nerf to your movement speed.

[Palerion]

@Sledgecrushr

Yes, I realize that an overshield sounds more like something the engineer might do but given that the medic's role is keeping infantry alive, I don't think it's a stretch. Beyond even that though, I wouldn't want this being applied to NC Max suites who already have shielding. Just imagine how impossible it would be to kill if they had an engineer not only repairing it, but giving it an additional shield to the one it's already getting!

@Palerion

Not sure I follow what you mean

I mean that there should only be about 3 different types of stimulants (Not talking about faction specific anymore). I don't know how the stimulant ability could be properly implemented to the F key though while maintaining the ability to choose between injecting the user or the target.

[Sledgecrushr]

There should be a hundred different kinds of stimulants. You should only be limited to using three different kinds at a time and they can all be on your numberpad.

[PoisonTaco]

Crazy idea. Sacrifice your ability to revive teammates with some sort of weapon, gadget or ability that denies your enemy the ability to be revived.

[Palerion]

There should be a hundred different kinds of stimulants. You should only be limited to using three different kinds at a time and they can all be on your numberpad.

My concern is that this might make the combat medic an absolute supersoldier. Having three stimulants at one time would make it a bit overpowered, and having hundreds of stimulant options would take lots of work and make the class far too versatile and powerful. If I want myself and my squadmates to be prepared to take on heavier classes in firefights, I bring a health stimulant. If I want us to be able to cross a dangerous open-ground area, I bring a speed stimulant.

I would prefer the developers make this addition without turning the combat medic into the end-all be-all class. Giving them the ability to carry a stimulant for each situation all at once would certainly make that situation a reality. I would much rather see the devs start with just three stims. Personally, I would prefer to see, maybe speed, health, and shield regeneration. As the classes continue to develop, of course, these could be expanded on.

But I do see a good point that you made. The stim-injector could be simply placed in another inventory spot. It could still take up the ability slot, but not be bound to the "F" key.

My next question would be: infinite use, or limited? Personally I would prefer to see it on a recharge timer. Being an ability, it would seem most logical to not limit its use by capacity. But if it is to be placed on a recharge timer, when medical injectors are based on an ammo capacity, they must be clearly set apart from each other by design. So how could the med-injectors and stimulant injectors clearly look and feel different when used?

[Carbon Copied]

The thing with a "stimulant system" it's very implant-esque and since implants are going to be introduced and as far as it's assumed available to all at whatever TBC point I don't think that as a medic it fills a niche roll - besides it feels very RPG-buff spam bot. Utility is the definite point at which the medic should be getting the niche traits however things like Aeigs shielding/symbiotic healing healing etc. I'm pretty sure that in the original engineers had Aegis shielding and the medic could do something to add to that shield effect turning it into a healing bubble of sorts (may be wrong here?)

Maybe cross class co-operation things like that where if you have one they do the job but get 2 niches together and it's a potent combination could be another route. Situational but one of those unique things to bring along.

[Sledgecrushr]

I would definitely use the injector that is already in the game. You would basically either see your character injecting someone else or injecting yourself. These kinds of meds might be bought with infantry resources and you could only stock a certain amount depending on certification.

You know, its been very enjoyable theorcrafting some micro meta game with you.

[Palerion]

Quite fun :) but I must admit, Carbon Copied brings up a good point. Would this be too implant-esque? I'm not so sure developers would consider it if it begins to verge into implant-territory.

[Sledgecrushr]

Its true, soe might very well bundle these benefits into the online store and then you could buy two hours of 5% runspeed for a dollar. I hope not.

[Carbon Copied]

Well the current ones in the game files are the following (Tier 01 - 03):

Adrenal Regulator
Audio Dampening
Auditory Processor
Hazard Shielding
Iron Sight Movement Increase
Radar Masking
Reduce Weapon Swap Time
Reload Time Reduction
Shock Absorption
Sprint Recovery
Thermal Cloaking
Vehicle Timer Reduction

Most likely old left overs (lots of better icons left over in the game files from beta / alpha builds) but if they haven't been removed yet.. who knows
Will they be SC purchasable? Sounds like it could be over the borderline of pay to win so unlikely however that's an entirely different subject.
On topic though as I said I think that "stimulants" are too close to implants whether temporary or otherwise.

[Sledgecrushr]

I prefer the stimulant version. Yeah its treading lightly into rpg territory but it will at least get folks talking to each other. It really would be a cool gameplay mechanic.
Edit* i used a couple of implants before they were pulled from beta.

[Palerion]

I'm just afraid the devs won't go for it.

Any other ideas? I know they take suggestions posted in the comments section of the roadmap into consideration, so if we could actually get some viable ideas out here that would be nice.

I mean, there are quite a few useful tools the class could have, I just don't know which ones fit the best, which ones make the most sense. Biological weaponry is still up for discussion. Shielding systems of some sort unique to the combat medic. As a standalone, I would argue that a light form of AV would be nice. I mean it is kind of a medium-assault. An F-bound ability that spends all the power in one shot, serving as an emergency reserve of rapidly regenerating health during combat? Full rank regenerates the highest amount of health? I'm just bouncing ideas here.

[Gatekeeper]

Some ideas to replace the AOE/self heal on F. These would generally hit the same area as the default healing field (and thus affect the CM himself as well) and would provide some healing just for consistency. Each field would glow a different colour in order to differentiate between them.

1) Stimulant Field (Red): Boosts movement speed, very low healing, long duration.
2) Overheal Field (Blue): Low healing, but allows health to go above 100%.
3) Healing Rush (Orange): High healing, but very low duration and long recharge.
4) Recovery Field (White): Very low healing, but anyone who dies while affected by the field auto-resurrects (with low health) after a short delay (2 seconds?).
5) Wide-Area Healing (Yellow): Low healing, but double normal radius.
6) Adrenal Healing (Purple): Long default recharge, but recharges a large amount (30%-50%?) every time you make a kill.

[Palerion]

So... That still sounds like stimulants. Which I'm pretty sure are overlapped by implants.

[Sledgecrushr]

It looks like if we get implants then any kind of player chosen buff system is out of the window. I am not a fan of implants atm because it will take away this small potential bit of meta game.

[Palerion]

What is the purpose of implants? Are they like actual permanent perks, or just temporary advantages?

Anyway, regardless, I would say even something that replaces AOE heal that is an emergency self-heal that brings your health back up instantly would be a good idea. Not only in a firefight, but in the situation that you need to get to a downed soldier, it would be helpful.

The problem with coming up with these ideas is trying to make them fit the medical/biological feel of the class. If it were not for that obstacle I would say a simple shield that negates all damage and removes use of the player's weapon. But finding another possibility that works like buffs, that could be used to benefit both the player and allies, is a challenge.

[Sledgecrushr]

Palerion we need to pitch this buff/stimulant idea on the official forum.

[Palerion]

On the roadmap or just the forum? Pretty sure the official forum is kind of a downgrade, but you're right. I just need to recollect what my forum password was... :/

[Carbon Copied]

Ok so think outside the box and empty your heads of this RPG-style buff bot; things like that are simply not practical - they sound good on paper but think about it in terms of the game as to what they actually achieve and/or add to it.

Buffs seem to just so far be an attempt at producing some form of super soldier: how do these buffs give xp, how do they stack, what if I want to get rid of a buff that some asshole medic has just run up to me and bestowed on my person, do you have a platoon of super soliders running around against a group of people, how do I know if another person on my team has a buff, am I going to be pissed if asshole medic number 2 runs up and overwrites the buff I wanted.
You see where the cracks are starting to show?

Seriously this isn't me saying "shit idea" because on paper it's pretty cool but like figment mentioned in another "cool idea" thread what sounds cool is, ingame the worst concept and design ever. This is coming from a dedicated support player.

[Palerion]

Well honestly I'd just like to know that the devs are willing to give the class something other than more healing, because that's all they've got on the roadmap.

[Sledgecrushr]

Medic already does good healing, unless they intend on nerfing their current capabilities more healing seems very redundant.

[Palerion]

Yeah, the thing is, i can't see too much of an expansion on healing in future development. I can really only see new types of gear, and I would venture to say that weaponry and defensive/offensive utilities are the only routes.

As Figment apparently said, ideas that sound cool sometimes play out terribly in-game. Alternate ways to heal, such as "long-range healing devices" are the perfect example if you ask me. Snipe-healing is not a medic's job, frontline healing is, and we already have a medical applicator, AOE heal, rez grenades, and heal grenades. Quite honestly, that is enough in terms of its support role.

I think giving the combat medic more "F" abilities, though, is what should happen. Combined with maybe more small class-specific utilities. I know it's a medic, but they work on the frontline, up close. They may find a use for small explosives, deployables, and the like.

As a matter of fact, that is the one expansion to healing I do agree with on the roadmap. A deployable healing station. That is useful and fits the medic, and if the medic has a deployable healing station and AOE heal on, it would decently boost the survival rate of him and his squad.

[Carbon Copied]

Ok so had a think and came up with some potential suggestions to the table:

(Below rely on an engineer and the engineer class having these added to the game)

Nanite Energy Shield Healing Module (The NESHM):

Friendly engineer deploys a shield bubble module that by default just protects the occupants inside. Should a medic have the correct certed module he can interface with the module (via a consumable resource costed item) this provides the occupants with an AOE (that doesn't go outside the bubble boundaries) however is totally destroyed should the engineer deconstruct/re-deploy his module elsewhere or the shield is destroyed from enemy attack.

Nanite Adaptable Healing Pad (The NAHP):

Engineer constructs a portable equipment terminal where by default (like all other terminals) this does not heal you when you re-equip. With The NAHP the medic can interface with the equipment terminal to deploy a ground regeneration pad (via a consumable resource costed item) that heals over time any user interfacing with the equipment terminal. This can also be deployed on standard facility terminals as well however only one may remain active per medic at any one time and as well as the added risk that hacked terminals will turn the medic pad over to the faction's hacked side. Destroying the terminal will also destroy the medical terminal pad.

(While not a "buff" it probably sits between the lines which could be a starting point)

Nanite Systems Infantry Medical Adapter (The NSIMA):

A consumable resource costed item that allows the medic to integrate a Commercial AOE Medical Applicator to a Heavy Assault infantry man. This adapter interfaces with the Heavy Assault's Personal Shield so that when activated creates a low radius, low heal field around them healing others; unfortunately Nanite Systems are unable to integrate it sufficiently enough so that it heals the modified Heavy Assault personnel directly while their Personal Shields are active. While it doesn't affect the Personal Shield directly; once activated the Commercial AOE Medical Applicator is lifed to one use and will require refitting should the Heavy Assault turn off shields prematurely or run his Personal Shield generator dry.

[Sledgecrushr]

Ok so had a think and came up with some potential suggestions to the table:

(Below rely on an engineer and the engineer class having these added to the game)

Nanite Energy Shield Healing Module (The NESHM):

Friendly engineer deploys a shield bubble module that by default just protects the occupants inside. Should a medic have the correct certed module he can interface with the module (via a consumable resource costed item) this provides the occupants with an AOE (that doesn't go outside the bubble boundaries) however is totally destroyed should the engineer deconstruct/re-deploy his module elsewhere or the shield is destroyed from enemy attack.

Nanite Adaptable Healing Pad (The NAHP):

Engineer constructs a portable equipment terminal where by default (like all other terminals) this does not heal you when you re-equip. With The NAHP the medic can interface with the equipment terminal to deploy a ground regeneration pad (via a consumable resource costed item) that heals over time any user interfacing with the equipment terminal. This can also be deployed on standard facility terminals as well however only one may remain active per medic at any one time and as well as the added risk that hacked terminals will turn the medic pad over to the faction's hacked side. Destroying the terminal will also destroy the medical terminal pad.

(While not a "buff" it probably sits between the lines which could be a starting point)

Nanite Systems Infantry Medical Adapter (The NSIMA):

A consumable resource costed item that allows the medic to integrate a Commercial AOE Medical Applicator to a Heavy Assault infantry man. This adapter interfaces with the Heavy Assault's Personal Shield so that when activated creates a low radius, low heal field around them healing others; unfortunately Nanite Systems are unable to integrate it sufficiently enough so that it heals the modified Heavy Assault personnel directly while their Personal Shields are active. While it doesn't affect the Personal Shield directly; once activated the Commercial AOE Medical Applicator is lifed to one use and will require refitting should the Heavy Assault turn off shields prematurely or run his Personal Shield generator dry.

Wow I absolutely love it. This has almost everything. The teamwork idea is spectacular. All I would like are for more choices between this interaction of engineer and medic.

[Palerion]

That's a pretty sexy idea, but a lot more for the engineer than the medic. It would be cool if they could do something like that.

I'm still brainstorming on more medic utilities and abilities; haven't come up with much.

[Gatekeeper]

So... That still sounds like stimulants. Which I'm pretty sure are overlapped by implants.

Really? I don't see how there's a problem, honestly. My ideas were primarily based on existing certs in other categories or on simple modifications to the existing healing effect. The only controversial concept is the auto-res.

The big difference here with the stimulants concept is that these abilities would work in the same way as the current CM healing aura - you have to be near your target(s) and have the ability toggled on in order for them to get the buff. So we're not talking about some kind of fire-and-forget buff you need to apply to people in some way, but instead something that lets the Medic buff his squad a little while he's fighting alongside them, or lets him heal in different ways.

Since the Heavy already has a few different overshield versions to choose from, and LA has different jump-jet versions, it seems logical to me that the Medic should get alternate healing auras. It's relatively simple to implement, consistent with other game features and seems fairly balanced to me.

[Sledgecrushr]

So alternate healing auras that also buff other stats for as long as your aura is active. Of course choosing a buff would lessen the healing as a tradeoff but applying the correct buff at the right time could change the ballance of a fight.

I would like for a buff gained while in the medicaes aura to last for a couple of minutes.

[Carbon Copied]

I'm not going to comment on buff style gameplay apart from really to say the moment you're killed by a legit-speedhacker squad (read as buffed) you'll probably want it removed when they're running rings round entire squads mowing them down. Seriously the whole buff thing isn't a bad idea it's just a RPG induced nauseating one that has cringe worthy memories of MMO's where a class could just be set to auto follow and that was the "job". I mean it's close to a step away from Quake "quad-damage" power ups..

I don't think anyone has really sold the buff system apart from to say "I think we should be able to inject/aura people"; simply what does it add to the game - because if I wanted to be the buffed super soldier I'd just snort a line of crack and take anything on regardless. I think we all have better ideas just the buff thing is an easy boring scape goat.

@Palerion With The NAHP note it can be used with existing base terminals as well as engineer deployed ones; so this is multifunction without the exlusive requirement for an engineer ;)

Ok another one on the table:

Nanite Systems Bio-scanner (The NSB):

Originally used and developed for a variety of industries on Earth such as immigration border control and deep space salvo personnel. Able to penetrate solid objects the NSB quickly became a useful tool for medical personnel both on Earth and off world who had to locate casualities during disasters and rescue missions.
The NSB is designed to display life readings in the proximity of up to 25 metres in a 180 degree radius; unfortunately the NSB can only display life readings and as such isn't designed to differentiate between friend and foe to the user. As far as Auraxis goes there are no known indigenious life forms but please be aware these are again not calibrated to distinguish on the screen display.
Operated via handheld applicator the device scans the immediate area with a non lethal burst effect pinpointing the location of organic life forms on the device's heads up display. Please note that the device is only able to detect life forms on the same level as the operator. The operator has to communicate the on display information with allied platoons/forces on scans as this is not integrated to the helmet display map and is too cumbersome to use whilst a weapon is equipped.

The device is charged with a slow regenerating trickle charge capacity battery that at full charge can provide 3 reading bursts. Higher capacity charges have not been required for the base model and are therefore currently unavailable from Nanite Systems.

Reports from Nanite Systems' industrial spies report that factions are attempting to reverse engineer the base unit and upgrade the device with so far mixed results.

New Conglomerate have left things largely unchanged from the original Nanite Systems design favouring function over form. They have however refitted the unit to use less charge per use and include helmet and squad map pinpoints, while this has increased the bursts available per full charge it has reduced the effective scan range down to 20 metres and compromised the cone of scan to 100 degrees.


Vanu Sovereignty are attempting to integrate their own technology and to a degree they have succesfully increased the range of readings to the device of up to 30 metres - however at the expense of requiring a charge time per use. Also initial tests are relying on a shockwave effect that while still not dangerous to the user or individuals scanned, it does create a visable "blast" that pinpoints the operator.


Terran Republic have made several attempts to mount the device to the combat medic's primary weapon, however they have had to reduce the device size and charge capacity considerably. While more convenient this has resulted in a smaller radial sweep of just 45 degrees in addition to affecting accuracy and equip time of the primary gun it is attached to. They have however succesfully integrated it to the medic's helmet map display which in turn has allowed squad members to view this real time data (however they are no closer to differentiating opposing factions on the map and as such the map interprets this data as "friendly").

All factions have been unable to adapt it to real time movement data - and as such all agents report that displayed readings are limited to data "at time of sweep".

[Gatekeeper]

So alternate healing auras that also buff other stats for as long as your aura is active. Of course choosing a buff would lessen the healing as a tradeoff but applying the correct buff at the right time could change the ballance of a fight.

I would like for a buff gained while in the medicaes aura to last for a couple of minutes.

Yeah, that's the general idea - although I also outlined a few options that were just pure healing but with different properties (fast but non-sustainable, slow but wide-area, and one that was recharged by you getting kills).

I was thinking that the buff to speed for the 'stimulant' aura would only last while you were actually affected by it. So the Medic himself could use it to move around faster, and when working with a squad they could all keep close to him to move fast as a unit.

Potentially you could allow the effect to linger for a second or so after the aura ends though (or you move out of range) just to give some margin of error for squad-mates accidentally getting too far away.

The second buff I suggested was for max health - which I was thinking would function like the Doctor's overheal in Team Fortress 2. I'd suggest it should last for only a short while though - maybe 10-30 seconds?

I'd envisage it as something where you'd gather your squad together, the medic would activate their overheal and get everyone up to full health and beyond, and then you'd charge into the breach together with a bit of an edge.

The final concept was an auto-res effect (think Auto-Life from Final Fantasy...) which would be pretty short-duration - kind of an emergency response to the fact that your squad is about to be wiped out or take heavy losses and you won't have time to res them all. So maybe 5-10 secs duration?

I'd be reluctant to suggest buffs that last any longer, simply because balance starts to become a bit of a nightmare if people could be running around with long-term buffs on them, well away from the Medic that bestowed them.

Finally, I'd suggest that you can only be affected by one buff at a time (and normal healing would also count as a buff in this sense), with a glow of the appropriate colour marking the effect you're currently under. This would be much the same as people glowing when they use restoration kits, etc.

[Sledgecrushr]

I like the one buff at a time idea. Now im really not digging everyone enjoying the medics aura buff only while they are clumped together. A cluster of guys moving together to me is juicy HE bait. I would like to see these buffs linger for a few minutes or death.

Now about the buffs, they should really be marginal in their effectiveness. Just a couple of percentage point swing towards armor or speed etc... But also they could be ballanced by a slight disadvantage like an armor debuff as a tradeoff for better footspeed. Overall I dont see this as a way to directly gain xp. Kind of like a galaxy or sundy pilot driving his crew to the battle, you get xp indirectly.

[Gatekeeper]

I was thinking about the buffs being in the same order of magnitude as those provided by certs like the LA's Adrenaline Pump (speed boost) or Nanoweave Armour (health boost).

Personally I'd say a small duration that forces clumping together is a good balance factor and encourages teamwork. Stay with your squad, work together, get a buff for doing so - but it also limits your options a little and makes you vulnerable to AoE attacks. That way you don't need any other downside.

As for XP - I'd say award XP in a similar fashion to healing or providing ammo - a small 'buffing' award of say 5-10 XP every second or so (per target affected) while you're actively applying the buff. Maybe vary the reward depending on the usefulness and duration of the buff (i.e. less per second for weaker, longer-duration buffs).

[Sledgecrushr]

You cant give xp for an aura buff. I know I would just stay at a busy warpgate and spam the aura in the biggest group I could find and get easy xp. The reward for using the correct buffs alongside good teamwork should be victory.

[Gatekeeper]

You get XP for supplying ammo - that's easily abusable by a group if you want to. Hell, you get XP for reviving someone you just TKed... so a small amount of XP for a slowly-recharging area-ability is the least of the game XP worries ;)

Honestly if it's a problem you could just not award any XP to people in the WG...

[Sledgecrushr]

I thought they changed it so you dont get xp for someone who received friendly damage.