MAX with Dual Pounders

[psijaka]

Well I gave in to my inner fascist and created a TR char a couple of nights ago (on Waterson as the EU servers were down).

As a big fan of Dual Falcons (NC AV MAX) I was curious to try out the TR equivalent, Dual Pounders, so I spent a little SC.

First impressions are that the higher gravity and lower projectile speed hurts the weapon's viability somewhat, although my success rate will increase as I adapt to it. Managed to bag 2 Vanguards despite this (traitor).

Did some testing in VR and confirmed that the Pounder takes 3 shots to kill default infantry, so it is not a "one salvo" kill like dual Falcons. However, as there are 2 rounds in the mag it is possible to loose off the second salvo pretty quickly, and I did manage to snipe someone off the tower at Crossroads before they had time to react. I'll practice this.

I'm having to change my habits a little as now I have 2 rounds in the mag; popping in and out of cover to fire off a single salvo not really viable due to the lower damage. Some interesting possibilities though as the DPS is significantly higher; should be good against deployed Sunderers (as long as they are within the shorter effective range). Also Dual Pounders are potentially better close up or for spamming infantry from above; the splash damage is proportionally higher, and the higher fire rate and DPS should help.

Early days yet, but I'm going to run with this for a while; I like to try out the more unusual weapons.

Would be interested to hear from anyone else who specialises in Dual Pounders. Any tips on how to get the best out of them?

[Sledgecrushr]

Why would the tr settle for an inferior ai gun when they have the very best max ai gun in the mercy.

[Whiteagle]

Would be interested to hear from anyone else who specialises in Dual Pounders. Any tips on how to get the best out of them?

...There are people who bother with duel Pounders?:huh:

[psijaka]

Why would the tr settle for an inferior ai gun when they have the very best max ai gun in the mercy.

Not sure I understand your question. The Pounder is an AV weapon that can also be used against infantry in certain circumstances. I fully intend to try out Dual Mercies as well!

[psijaka]

...There are people who bother with duel Pounders?:huh:

It would appear that I'm the only one stupid enough to try!

[Canaris]

It would appear that I'm the only one stupid enough to try!

you do see people using Comet and Falcons, most usually to attack infantry and on the rarest occasion to attack armour but you hardly ever see anyone use the Pounders, I can't recall the last time a TR max was walking around with 1 pretty sure the odd time you do see them their being used by new game members who don't know better.

Also I'd love to see the overall stats of PS2 on pounder use vs the other 2 factions.

Wouldn't be suprized if it was in the least used of any weapon in game pile.

I know you like the AV max style Psi but the pounders are just straight up useless imo.

[Twasta]

I personally pull dual pounders when I'm hanging around the crown. It's great to bombard EI with them. Barely any kills, but they usually immediately hurry out of cover when I hit them.

And they're good AV weapons. It takes practice to hit moving targets, but once you have the basic projectile trajectory down you can blast vehciles reliably at quite a long range.

[Sledgecrushr]

I am looking forward to hearing about your adventures with the DPs.

[Dragonskin]

I was in the VR going through the different chaingun options and trying to see if Mercy was the best. I think it is, but only slightly.. for some reason I like the Onslaught too. I also spent about 10 minutes with the pounders in the VR just looking at why anyone would use them.

Trying the pounders I can't find a reason to use it. If I wanted to grenade people I would probably use the underbarrel grenade launcher on the Trac 5 S. It seemed to do way more damage per shot. A heavy with a rocket launcher would do more damage VS armor than the pounders. The only redeeming quality of the pounder was it had decent range and ease of use over the underbarrel, but I don't think it was worth buying. Not when I already have the Striker and Trac 5 S with grenade launcher in game. If I want to dumbfire I can always just switch out to my default ESRL.

[ThatGoatGuy]

I have tried them all out very much, one of the main reasons is because I haven't put jack shit into my MAX unit, but I have found that the comet is probably the most effective. Even if I had a second cycler/shotgun/pewpewpew gun I would still intentionally run with the AV weapon outside. They are insanely effective, 3-5ish shots to the rear with the comet will destroy a prowler I believe.

[AThreatToYou]

pretty much all AV MAX weapons need some kind of buff.
The pounder especially needs a dramatic improvement.

[KaskaMatej]

you do see people using Comet and Falcons, most usually to attack infantry and on the rarest occasion to attack armour

That's because you rarely see MAX outside trying to kill ground vehicles. HA and even LA are much much better at that. MAX just dies too fast because it's a bigger, slower target, with not so much better AV resistance than normal squishy.

[Rumblepit]

first off let me say, they deter, if you can manage to hit your target,and yes you are 1 of the very few to even run them in game.that being said, do you remember the old school pounder, it was feared in ps1.imo they went the wrong direction with av in planetside 2. instead of making the AV max feared like it was in ps1 they decided to make heavys the primary counter to armor.

if they would have had a viable AV max from the start and built off of that we wouldnt have so many viable counters to armor in game. when you look at the AA and AI max they have a role and they do it better than any other class in the game, but you have to pay for it via resources . with the AV max this is not the case, a heavy or a engy is a much more viable option and it cost nothing.thus you get the overwhelming amount of AV we see in the game today.

i dont have a problem with a heavy being able to take out armor, they should be able to, but not better than a AV max.

[Rbstr]

...There are people who bother with duel Pounders?:huh:

Yeah, if I was challenging someone to a duel I certainly wouldn't pick pounders.

[CraazyCanuck]

if they would have had a viable AV max from the start and built off of that we wouldnt have so many viable counters to armor in game. when you look at the AA and AI max they have a role and they do it better than any other class in the game, but you have to pay for it via resources . with the AV max this is not the case, a heavy or a engy is a much more viable option and it cost nothing.thus you get the overwhelming amount of AV we see in the game today.

i dont have a problem with a heavy being able to take out armor, they should be able to, but not better than a AV max.

You hit it spot on Rumble

[moosepoop]

dual pounders used with skill is very deadly.

[psijaka]

first off let me say, they deter, if you can manage to hit your target,and yes you are 1 of the very few to even run them in game.that being said, do you remember the old school pounder, it was feared in ps1.imo they went the wrong direction with av in planetside 2. instead of making the AV max feared like it was in ps1 they decided to make heavys the primary counter to armor.

if they would have had a viable AV max from the start and built off of that we wouldnt have so many viable counters to armor in game. when you look at the AA and AI max they have a role and they do it better than any other class in the game, but you have to pay for it via resources . with the AV max this is not the case, a heavy or a engy is a much more viable option and it cost nothing.thus you get the overwhelming amount of AV we see in the game today.

i dont have a problem with a heavy being able to take out armor, they should be able to, but not better than a AV max.

Agree with a lot of what you say here. AV MAX in the hands of someone who can aim are a big deterrent to tanks; if you land a couple of salvos on them they usually beat a hasty retreat. .

The NC AV MAX is certainly viable against armour, and especially against deployed Sunderers, in the right circumstances (cover to work with, height advantage, tank hampered by rough terrain etc). But it usually ends badly for me if I am caught out in the open (although Charge can help me to reach cover sometimes). Jury still out on Pounders; I'll report back.

But I do agree that HA is a better choice in some circumstances, even if it is because anyone can repeatedly pull HA at no cost (spawn, shoot missile, die, repeat). Can't do this with a MAX!

And for long range work the AV MANA wins; sometimes I almost feel sorry for tank crews (well, maybe not; payback time for HE spam).

[hammsammich]

I have found dual pounders, for the most part, to be worthless. There have been a couple times when I have been entrenched in a base defending against an armor onslaught when they have been pretty deadly.

I still think one of the most deadliest combos in the game are a max with dual mercys and a good engineer.

[Haro]

I've only messed around with the dual pounders a bit in BR, and I agree the number of rounds and the fast reload time could make them deadly against AI. However, they have a lot of drop and have a pretty large cone of fire compared to small targets like infantry. I found that even against stationary targets with perfect alignment, often one or more rounds would go wide, so I imagine they'd be even worse in a real fight.

However, I do lie using dual falcons.m I usually don't pull max, and usually I do it only for the burster, with I think is a bit OP to be honest. But when in a vehicle rich environment, I sometimes go dual falcon, and I enjoy it. I usually don't live very long, but I usually cause a bit of mayhem in the meantime. I find falcons to be pretty good against infantry as well, so ha ha fascists.

[moosepoop]

one thing is dual pounder is great at is killing sunderers. when ur a heavy assault it takes way too long.

[Neutral Calypso]

AV MAXes in numbers would be an epic vehicle deterrent.

Problem of course is heavies in numbers using strikers or some other damn rocket launcher type can take it out faster with less skill.

[psijaka]

one thing is dual pounder is great at is killing sunderers. when ur a heavy assault it takes way too long.

This is where I think they have the edge over Dual Falcons as well, except at extreme range. Ripped apart 3 in my last session; really takes them down quickly; higher DPS than Falcons and Comets.

But against a moving target, or when you are popping in and out of cover; less useful, due to bigger drop and lower damage per salvo.

Not bad spammed against infantry due to higher splash dps, but not the precision weapon that the Falcon is; no one salvo kill at medium range.

Struggling as bit on Waterson to tell you the truth, been through a few high ping periods where I wasn't getting hitmarkers; very random. Only to be expected; it's a a long way from my island home north of Scotland to East Coast USA. Pity; experienced some good action otherwise.

[psijaka]

I've only messed around with the dual pounders a bit in BR, and I agree the number of rounds and the fast reload time could make them deadly against AI. However, they have a lot of drop and have a pretty large cone of fire compared to small targets like infantry. I found that even against stationary targets with perfect alignment, often one or more rounds would go wide, so I imagine they'd be even worse in a real fight.

Cone of fire is actually tiny, but the problem is that there is an aim offset as the weapons are widely spaced, being strapped to the outside of your forearms. The rounds converge at medium range, so your aim should be spot on here (if you can compensate for the drop, that is). But at close range, it is possible for the rounds to pass either side of a target, and at long range the rounds start to diverge again; tricky.

This diagram explains what is happening.
http://i1225.photobucket.com/albums/ee391/psijaka/MAXaim_V2_zpsd8879259.png
Edit - or rather it doesn't, as the lines showing the projectile paths have disappeared! FIXED

I have found that I can get a close range hit if I only fire one arm; aiming a little to the right with the left arm or to the left with the right arm.

Here's some selected stats:
http://i1225.photobucket.com/albums/ee391/psijaka/MAXAVsummary_zps22745514.png

And here's the projectile trajectories, calculated using schoolboy physics.
The peck marks on the lines represent one second. After 5 seconds, the projectile explodes, so this defines the maximum range.
http://i1225.photobucket.com/albums/ee391/psijaka/MAXAVdrop_zps2192fd18.png

I would like Pounders more if they didn't suffer as much drop; the higher gravity is totally bizarre (would like to see this buffed to be the same as the Falcon).

[Rothnang]

Ok, off topic, but it just pisses me off to no end how the word fascist is always being slapped on TR despite the fact that they are decidedly not fascist.

Just because your state is totalitarian and nationalistic doesn't mean you're a fascist. It just means you're totalitarian and nationalistic. The most important aspect of fascism is that it looks at Darwinism as the absolute driving force to a nations success, and tries to weed out the weak or undesirable within, as well as displace weaker cultures without. It's a philosophy that tends to work very much like private business, except when you run a state like you run a business and start firing people there might be ovens involved.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

Please don't let people muck up your understanding of the political spectrum by acting as though every awful extreme is on the same end of the spectrum. There has been a pretty alarming trend in recent years of certain TV channels trying to say that fascism is an extreme left position, but that couldn't be further from the truth.

[Canaris]

well it might seem that instead of griping over and asking for fixes to the pounders we'll just have to wait till the new dual SKEP launchers show cased on FNO to be released in the MAX update .

[Pella]

I tried them outlast night.

My conclusion is. They are terrible.

Yes they can 1 Shot enemy units. But the ROF makes it redundant as a AI unit.

I got the drop on about 6 VS guys i managed to kill one before i was gunned down. If i had Mercy's i would of cleaned up.

With the TTK being low. The Clip size + ROF of the Mercys make them the better choice.
And being a AV well its pointless takes like all your ammo to kill 1 vanguard.

Other than that, They are semi decent in Bio labs by pumping the rounds over the walkways to the other building doors. Thats about it really.

[psijaka]

I tried them outlast night.

My conclusion is. They are terrible.

Yes they can 1 Shot enemy units. But the ROF makes it redundant as a AI unit.

I got the drop on about 6 VS guys i managed to kill one before i was gunned down. If i had Mercy's i would of cleaned up.

With the TTK being low. The Clip size + ROF of the Mercys make them the better choice.
And being a AV well its pointless takes like all your ammo to kill 1 vanguard.

Pounders can't one shot (or one salvo) full health infantry. Takes 3 shots (tested repeatedly in VR). Your victims must have been below full health. I would wholeheartedly agree that Mercies or indeed any MAX HMG are a much better choice for pure AI work.

I'm having some success with Pounders against vehicles (4 MBTs; 3 Sunderers so far). Certainly doesn't use all my ammo to take down either; nothing like it.

[Pella]

Pounders can't one shot (or one salvo) full health infantry. Takes 3 shots (tested repeatedly in VR). Your victims must have been below full health. I would wholeheartedly agree that Mercies or indeed any MAX HMG are a much better choice for pure AI work.

I'm having some success with Pounders against vehicles (4 MBTs; 3 Sunderers so far). Certainly doesn't use all my ammo to take down either; nothing like it.

Yes, Sorry most people in fights have taken damage so you can one shot them.

And it feels like all your ammo. When it would be faster with HA :D

[PurpleOtter]

Looks like the Dual Pounder question is now moot with the pending release of the NS Systems grenade launchers and the new Empire Specific MAX rocket launchers showcased in the this weeks Friday Night OPS.

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSuP8XxjBTzvYf4nKIILDdz35B5OgnMF eeErNnQrJvQ0WTQclm1

[psijaka]

Even less people will use Pounders.

[Falcon_br]

Got dual pounders on day one, thinking I was playing planetside 1.
Even with several attempts, the only thing I can kill is parked sunderer. My max is anti air and anti inf only!

[moosepoop]

Got dual pounders on day one, thinking I was playing planetside 1.
Even with several attempts, the only thing I can kill is parked sunderer. My max is anti air and anti inf only!

dude the pounder in ps2 is a huge improvement to ps1.

in ps1 i couldnt kill any vechiles at all with the pounder, it had low damage and huge drop.

[bpostal]

dude the pounder in ps2 is a huge improvement to ps1.

in ps1 i couldnt kill any vechiles at all with the pounder, it had low damage and huge drop.

Granted, but put it in a tower next to some DCs and then it'd work out just fine.

[AThreatToYou]

dude the pounder in ps2 is a huge improvement to ps1.

in ps1 i couldnt kill any vechiles at all with the pounder, it had low damage and huge drop.

What..

what

JUST WHAT SERIOUSLY WHAT THE FUCK?

Low damage? Noooooo!!! NO!

It was:
- The most accurate AV MAX (it had drop but could be adjusted for)
- The highest DPS AV MAX
- The longest range AV MAX
- Overall the best AV MAX at killing other vehicles
- Poor at fighting indoors and against other MAX units
- Had to anchor

basically it was balanced, but definitely better than the PS2 dual-pounder.

[moosepoop]

- Had to anchor

.

lolz

[psijaka]

Well' I'm joining the general consensus that Pounders are pretty terribad. My results with them have been lacklustre to say the least. I've bagged a few tanks and they are good against deployed Sunderers, but, other than the Pounder having somewhat higher DPS, the Falcon is superior in every other respect.

Switched back to Dual Falcons yesterday, just for 40 minutes and went on the rampage in and around TI alloys; bagged several tanks and instakilled infantry by the dozen. Great fun.

That's it for now with Pounders; back to Falcons for me.

[Falcon_br]

Searched for a guide for the pounders after I realized I couldn't kill anything with it.
The guides I found were very useful and easy to understand, they all told the same:
Never, ever use pounders, if you started playing today and haven't unlock anything, use the cycler with the buster, is more effective to infantry and you can also damage air units, with the pounders you can't damage infantry, air and even tanks, it just sucks bad!

[Whiteagle]

Well' I'm joining the general consensus that Pounders are pretty terribad. My results with them have been lacklustre to say the least. I've bagged a few tanks and they are good against deployed Sunderers, but, other than the Pounder having somewhat higher DPS, the Falcon is superior in every other respect.

Switched back to Dual Falcons yesterday, just for 40 minutes and went on the rampage in and around TI alloys; bagged several tanks and instakilled infantry by the dozen. Great fun.

That's it for now with Pounders; back to Falcons for me.
Thank you for your time!

In your opinion, would Pounders benefit from a shallower flight arc like the Falcons?
The high specific gravity on the rounds is what kills them for me, you have to aim +30m over whatever you want to hit just so the damned things will drop on it.

[Snipefrag]

Its pretty terrible, one thing that i find quite annoying is that in the heat of battle its pretty hard to even see your projectile grenades.. Which makes it hard to adjust your aim and plot a course to the enemy. The only time i ever have a chance to kill things with them is when they are right up close and shooting someone else.

[moosepoop]

i think the pounder needs more rounds in the magazine. it has more theoretical dps but it doesnt land hits consistently.

if it has 3-5 round magazine instead of 2 would be a great improvement.

[psijaka]

Thank you for your time!

In your opinion, would Pounders benefit from a shallower flight arc like the Falcons?
The high specific gravity on the rounds is what kills them for me, you have to aim +30m over whatever you want to hit just so the damned things will drop on it.

Even though I'm not going to continue with Pounders, I don't regret spending the 700sc just to satisfy my curiosity. Maybe I'll recreate my TR char sometime in the future.

Yes; buffing the speed and gravity so that they have the same trajectory as the Falcons would be where I would start. It is totally illogical that one projectile would suffer greater gravity than another - laws of physics broken big time here!

i think the pounder needs more rounds in the magazine. it has more theoretical dps but it doesnt land hits consistently.

if it has 3-5 round magazine instead of 2 would be a great improvement.

A 3 round mag would be a balanced improvement; 5 maybe a bit generous. Although a 3 round mag would buff the DPS against stationary targets quite a bit, it wouldn't be too much as you would still struggle against moving targets, and still can't one salvo kill infantry (but the spash damage will start to tell).

[hashish]

At least TR and NC MAX's are actually Max units.. The VS ones are more like MIN units lol.. Aboslutley and utterly uselss.. every weapon they have is broken except for dual bursters which are the same for all factions :(

[PurpleOtter]

Every once in a while I will pull a Dual Pounder in VR - Just to remind myself how bad they really are! Around GU05/04 I swear they gave them a "slight" stealth Buff, but it still was not enough to spend certs/SmedleyBuck$ on them. If they increased the projectile speed, removed most of the arc from the trajectory and gave a slight buff to damage from the splash vrs. vehicles, ...it ...might ...just ...work! (this time)

[Whiteagle]

Yes; buffing the speed and gravity so that they have the same trajectory as the Falcons would be where I would start. It is totally illogical that one projectile would suffer greater gravity than another - laws of physics broken big time here!
I don't even need a projectile speed buff, reducing the gravity of the rounds to be the same as the Falcon would probably improve the Pounder's firing arc THAT much.

A 3 round mag would be a balanced improvement; 5 maybe a bit generous. Although a 3 round mag would buff the DPS against stationary targets quite a bit, it wouldn't be too much as you would still struggle against moving targets, and still can't one salvo kill infantry (but the spash damage will start to tell).
Again, I'm meh on any other buff, just because I don't want it over done then nerfed back to uselessness again...

[psijaka]

Again, I'm meh on any other buff, just because I don't want it over done then nerfed back to uselessness again...

Fair comment. One buff at a time. Not that I'm holding my breath waiting for it; a lot more important stuff to do first.

[psijaka]

At least TR and NC MAX's are actually Max units.. The VS ones are more like MIN units lol.. Aboslutley and utterly uselss.. every weapon they have is broken except for dual bursters which are the same for all factions :(

Are Comets really that bad? I'm interested to know, but not so interested that I'm willing to spend 700SC to find out.

Can you kill infantry with one salvo? The data suggests that you can, but if your target has certed up their armour, maybe not.

[Whiteagle]

Are Comets really that bad? I'm interested to know, but not so interested that I'm willing to spend 700SC to find out.

Can you kill infantry with one salvo? The data suggests that you can, but if your target has certed up their armour, maybe not.
From what I've seen on the Test Server, they're not nearly as bad as Pounders...

[Kail]

Are Comets really that bad? I'm interested to know, but not so interested that I'm willing to spend 700SC to find out.

Can you kill infantry with one salvo? The data suggests that you can, but if your target has certed up their armour, maybe not.

Dual comets can one-salvo infantry with no armor, but the slow projectile speed make it tricky to hit moving targets, and MAX convergence issues make it tricky to hit stationary targets. Couple that with one-round magazines and decent reload times and you're left with a MAX that's able to spam doorways to kill the first in line but let all his friends through.


These are the kind of convergence issues that really hurt the Comet especially at close to medium ranges though:

Very close range (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7VV75wmPoo&feature=youtu.be)
Close-ish to medium range (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oL2XvAX6d5g&feature=youtu.be)

[psijaka]

Thanks for posting Kail; was curious.

Yeah, the Falcon and the Pounder also suffer from the same "convergence issue" - post 23 on page 2 includes a diagram that describes the issue. And the rounds diverge at long range.

Not much can be done about this though; the guns are widely spaced being mounted on the outside of the forearms, and MAX units are big!

Makes me wonder - where do the rounds converge with HMGs? Could cause problems at close range but at least you can just spray and pray. MAX shotguns should not suffer from this though; pellet spread works to their advantage by filling the "dead zone" with lead (and the aim may be set to converge at closer range?). Another reason why all empires should get a MAX shotgun (off topic I know).