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KesTro
2013-04-14, 12:31 PM
So with the last patch NC MAX's finally got hit with the nerfhammer as has been requested for some time. However it's debatable whether or not the nerf went too far. Did it need a damage buff? Sure, I'll admit that, the rate of fire buff is even justified. The reload speed and extra bullet in the magazine that they removed however, really cripples the NC MAX.

The below video describes the NC MAX vs a TR MAX pre-nerf:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5otUpvaRvSA

Outside of 10m the TR max won every engagement, (Minus the grinders which he had to spend 1000 certs on while the TR MAX didn't on his cyclers).

While I have no video comparison as to after the patch it seems the other factions MAXes have taken their place in CQC over the NC MAX. That is where my problem is. While other factions have access to longer range engagements we're stuck with nothing but CQC and we're starting to lose in that regard more and more. Again, as I have no video I'm guessing the TR MAX would win against the NC MAX inside of 10m now.

What is everyone elses opinions on MAX's and MAX balance?

Koadster
2013-04-14, 12:55 PM
a NC max with 2 scatt cannons will still instagib an infantry man [Scat cannon does 134x6 = 804. 2 shots = dead infantryman, a TTK of effectively 0 seconds] Even at 20meters the scatter cannon does impressive damage. If your using dual mattocks NC maxes become effective at 20-25meters even 30 with lucky shots because it seems theres no damage drop off for shotgun pellets.

That video posted is pretty iffy with the NC max stopping shooting at moments and having been on the recieving end of NC maxes for ~300 hours. They dont suddenly become useless past 10meters.. Thats the maxes operator not the suit/weapon system.

On Connery I know of some dedicated NC max users.. They havent been hindered at all and still steamroll biolabs, its just the average player cant (LMB/RMB INSTAWIN) now though still easily achievable.

Kail
2013-04-14, 12:56 PM
Much like a pocket engineer being required to be effective, I find the nerf to scatter cannons (and variants) very over-hyped.

Rothnang
2013-04-14, 12:57 PM
The problem with the whole notion of "It was only good at 10m" is that it's very easy in PS2 to force damn near every fight to that kind of range, because infantry fighting happens primarily in very confined spaces. Also the main issue with it was never that it was beating other MAXes too easily, but that it was one shotting all other infantry.

I think Bursters are overpowered as hell in their current state, and I think AV Maxes might become just as idiotic soon when they buff them.

I don't like MAX Units much because I think they have way too much staying power. The fact that medics can revive them puts them a cut above any vehicle in terms of raw staying power, while having the size and mobility of infantry. I find that a bit absurd.

The only downside to MAXes is needing to be leashed to an engineer, but that's just not really that big a deal given that MAX repairs give double XP, so any engineer will jump at the opportunity.

Whiteagle
2013-04-14, 01:05 PM
I don't like MAX Units much because I think they have way too much staying power. The fact that medics can revive them puts them a cut above any vehicle in terms of raw staying power, while having the size and mobility of infantry. I find that a bit absurd.
Admittedly I wouldn't mind seeing Vehicle Hulls being able to be revived...

I mean, what's the point of all that debris flying if it's just going to deconstruct ten second later...

ChipMHazard
2013-04-14, 01:05 PM
My opinion is the same as it has always been, well right after I got to try them out in beta. The scattermax is too effective because of it having a scattergun and the base design forcing players into close combat when trying to cap points.

The problem with the scattergun is that it's designed for close combat which also means that it won't be very effective at medium range and useless at long range. I would rather have them give the NC some sort of slower firing, heavy hitting HMG (Or something similar in versatility).
The scattergun is basicly not as versatile as the rest but it's too effective at what it does best, imo.

I also don't really like how easy it is to take out enemy MAXs' with MAX AI weapons, which might actually help the issues a bit.

KesTro
2013-04-14, 01:14 PM
Yeah Chip, I've seen you post that in previous threads as well and honestly it may very well be the best route. I don't like the idea of having to spend 1000 certs just to be on an equal field with other MAX's.

While the NC max can instagib infantry a TR and Vanu MAX can do it just as well and at further ranges. While the controversy of that statement isn't lost on me I've been experiencing this more and more as of late. It seems the other factions have regained their confidence in MAX's.

Shotguns in general are very hard to balance, I guess we've seen and are seeing that currently.

Whiteagle
2013-04-14, 01:24 PM
While the NC max can instagib infantry a TR and Vanu MAX can do it just as well and at further ranges. While the controversy of that statement isn't lost on me I've been experiencing this more and more as of late. It seems the other factions have regained their confidence in MAX's.
But that's the thing, our MAXes can't outright instagib...
We've got to shave Full Health Infantry down if we want to kill them.

Shamrock
2013-04-14, 01:50 PM
But that's the thing, our MAXes can't outright instagib...
We've got to shave Full Health Infantry down if we want to kill them.

Pretty much this, its all about burst damage in CQC, what would you rather have, a target that can shoot back and damage you or one that dies instantly.

Also saw this TR player put some range vids together, made me laugh.

Scattermax Slugs 90m - YouTube

Snoopy
2013-04-14, 02:05 PM
Ah, the NC never fail to amuse. If only you were stuck with the VS Max, you may actually have something to complain about... or the Lancer... but of course, you lot are so hard done by!

KesTro
2013-04-14, 02:56 PM
Ah, the NC never fail to amuse. If only you were stuck with the VS Max, you may actually have something to complain about... or the Lancer... but of course, you lot are so hard done by!

Implying the lancer is bad, all esrl's have their own spotlight as engagements change.
IE: Every faction's convinced they have the worst esrl.

Pretty much this, its all about burst damage in CQC, what would you rather have, a target that can shoot back and damage you or one that dies instantly.

Also saw this TR player put some range vids together, made me laugh.

Scattermax Slugs 90m - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa6uH79dGpE&list=PLseDgNSgfpvUXH7gckc-ANeV4o3ETZn90&index=21)

While that is rather humerous the chances of pulling that off in-game are next to none with how twitchy the game is. And honestly I'd rather have a target that's able to shoot back provided I'm able to shoot him as well instead of tickling him(As good as you look in your spandex, there's a time and place for that later).

psijaka
2013-04-14, 03:23 PM
Pretty much this, its all about burst damage in CQC, what would you rather have, a target that can shoot back and damage you or one that dies instantly.

Also saw this TR player put some range vids together, made me laugh.

Scattermax Slugs 90m - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa6uH79dGpE&list=PLseDgNSgfpvUXH7gckc-ANeV4o3ETZn90&index=21)

It's all about burst damage whatever the range. If you can take your victim out in one salvo, they can't take cover or fire back. Which is why I'm a great fan of Dual Falcons.

Not sure what the video proves; difficult to pull off in game; whilst with good aim it is possible to land the first salvo on target if you catch them napping, they is hardly likely to stand still and take the 2nd and 3rd salvo.

Whiteagle
2013-04-14, 03:56 PM
It's all about burst damage whatever the range. If you can take your victim out in one salvo, they can't take cover or fire back. Which is why I'm a great fan of Dual Falcons.

Not sure what the video proves; difficult to pull off in game; whilst with good aim it is possible to land the first salvo on target if you catch them napping, they is hardly likely to stand still and take the 2nd and 3rd salvo.
>Implying TR and VS MAX AI Weapons kill in Salvos...

Point--------------->.
Your head::huh:

KesTro
2013-04-14, 05:18 PM
After a small skirmish at Quartz Ridge inside the buildings I ran into a vanu MAX, one on one. I assume he was at full HP as we proceeded to unload into eachother. her got me during the reload from a full clip. Can't say 100% of th epellets landed but a good deal hit him.

At the same tiem however I was still killing infantry no problem so what was the problem they fixed here? It seems we're still just as pwerful against infantry but now we're the weakest MAX vs MAX. I guess that could be considered a trade off?

Whiteagle
2013-04-14, 05:37 PM
At the same tiem however I was still killing infantry no problem so what was the problem they fixed here? It seems we're still just as pwerful against infantry but now we're the weakest MAX vs MAX. I guess that could be considered a trade off?
I think so, you'll still explode Infantry at close range, but you'll need a Falcon if you think you'll be fighting another MAX.

PurpleOtter
2013-04-14, 06:35 PM
My personal opinion is the NC MAX nerf went too far, but the biggest disservice to the ScatMAX has been the negative propaganda campaign due to the shear amount of frustration felt by the opposing factions. SOE has said many times that even though they have exhaustive data on play balance they don't just look at the spread sheet to make adjustments; they also factor in what I call F² or Frustration Factor. It may be balanced on paper, but if it's no fun expect changes inbound.

If anything can be said about the NC ScatMAX, it is, that it is too easy to use effectively, not that it is inherently over powered. It doesn't take a lot of thought to grab a ScatMAX and camp a choke point.

As far as the MAX "Badassification" coming with the new weapons, I think I will take a watch and see. They will be initially over powered, then nerfed, then a slight buff and then the community will move onto the "Next Big Thing". I am looking forward to playing with the new toys in the VR until the stormfront passes.

psijaka
2013-04-14, 06:42 PM
>Implying TR and VS MAX AI Weapons kill in Salvos...

Point--------------->.
Your head::huh:

Where did I say that?

psijaka
2013-04-14, 06:43 PM
I think so, you'll still explode Infantry at close range, but you'll need a Falcon if you think you'll be fighting another MAX.

Falcon is great against MAXes at medium range, but very unreliable during CQC.

PurpleOtter
2013-04-14, 06:46 PM
Falcon is great against MAXes at medium range, but very unreliable during CQC.

Is this the weapon that fires a giant blue blob projectile?

Timealude
2013-04-14, 07:12 PM
My personal opinion is the NC MAX nerf went too far, but the biggest disservice to the ScatMAX has been the negative propaganda campaign due to the shear amount of frustration felt by the opposing factions. SOE has said many times that even though they have exhaustive data on play balance they don't just look at the spread sheet to make adjustments; they also factor in what I call F² or Frustration Factor. It may be balanced on paper, but if it's no fun expect changes inbound.

If anything can be said about the NC ScatMAX, it is, that it is too easy to use effectively, not that it is inherently over powered. It doesn't take a lot of thought to grab a ScatMAX and camp a choke point.

As far as the MAX "Badassification" coming with the new weapons, I think I will take a watch and see. They will be initially over powered, then nerfed, then a slight buff and then the community will move onto the "Next Big Thing". I am looking forward to playing with the new toys in the VR until the stormfront passes.

Im honestly looking forward to the Zoe module for VS MAXes, it will make fights alot more interesting.

Lonehunter
2013-04-14, 07:25 PM
Is this the weapon that fires a giant blue blob projectile?

No that's the Pheonix for HA. The AV MAX guns, Falcons, really are pretty worthless. Takes I think around 20 shots to kill a lightning, and 2 shots won't kill infantry.

BIGGByran
2013-04-14, 07:25 PM
I also think they went to far with the nerf of our MAXs. My play time with my MAX is 2% (17hrs) and I'm sure about 10-14hrs of that is for bursters.

Like I said before, I am ok with the nerf of:
1) Damage
2) Pellet Spread
Semi-ok with:
3) Reload speed nerf
But not ok with:
4) Lower ammo count nerf.

They said it was going to be a "balance" pass, but not a "nerf" pass. I was hoping for less damaging shotguns but more range, instead we get 4 nerfs and got nothing for it.

Pre-Patch: We dominate up to 8meters, decent up to 12meters and shit the rest of the way.
Post-Patch: We dominate up to 6meters, decent up to 10meters, and shit the rest of the way.

Plus I think this was just a way for SOE to MAKE people spend money to buy the (worse pre-patch NC weapon) Mattocks since they it is still the same, but the bullet spread is a hella better.

I'm sure about everyone can agree with this: Please SOE, remove the shotgun MAX weapons and give NC something different. They are too "OP" in cqc and shit at range.

Rothnang
2013-04-14, 07:31 PM
I find it amusing that if a certain weapon isn't bought by anyone and SOE makes it better people say they only did it to drive sales. Are the sales not ultimately a good measure of how useful that weapon is though?

Timealude
2013-04-14, 07:41 PM
I find it amusing that if a certain weapon isn't bought by anyone and SOE makes it better people say they only did it to drive sales. Are the sales not ultimately a good measure of how useful that weapon is though?

it also goes into the whole question where someone will say a weapon sucks or will say its op only because its not their play style.

Me personally, I absolutely suck with the shotgun but rock with SMGs the NS-15m, the cosmos AI max, the burster and the sniper rifles as well as the scout rifles. Im sure SOE takes into account not only the feed back but the number since one persons opinion of an sucky gun is another ones opinion of an OP gun.

I tried the scatmaxes on my NC on Connery before and after the patch and I dont understand why so many are upset about this nerf. NC MAXes can still instagib people from a decent range and like other people have said in this thread, the still wreck inside biolabs so I just dont understand the complaints.

Rothnang
2013-04-14, 07:45 PM
Well, sales aren't going to give you a great insight in terms of how very dissimilar things stack up against each other, because peoples preference plays a large part in that as well, but with weapons in the same category, if one of them is hardly ever used then it needs a buff, because it's doubtful that the name alone made people dislike it.

KesTro
2013-04-14, 09:41 PM
I guess I'll just shed out the 1000 certs for extended mags while we wait for flamethrowers, that reload is what gets you killed.

EclipsedTerror
2013-04-14, 10:50 PM
NC maxes are fine other than falcons. They still faceroll in buildings/bases where most fighting happens.

VS needs a buff. Period.

TR is fine other than we have 4 weapons that do the same thing. Mercies are the best of the 4 and no real reason to use the other 3. Pounders are absolute crap, but then again, vehicles already have enough counters so do we really need maxes doing AV duties too?

Koadster
2013-04-15, 01:46 AM
VS needs a buff. Period.

TR is fine other than we have 4 weapons that do the same thing. Mercies are the best of the 4 and no real reason to use the other 3. Pounders are absolute crap, but then again, vehicles already have enough counters so do we really need maxes doing AV duties too?

Actaully the standard Cycler is great. I run 1 cycler 1 mercy (main point is not wasting $7 for a chaingun I can already use) But give that cycler extended mags (60rounds turns into 90) You know have the Mutilator with higher damage so using them at the same time gives very staggered reloads allowing you to constantly reign lead down, the mercy with its accurate fire to deal most damage and help with longer shots, the cycler for say LA targets jetpacking.. the cyclers wider COF helps killing those fast moving targets where the mercys tighter COF may lag behind. The wider COF also helps with the bunny hoppers. :evil:

Dont even get started on the pounders.. People think the lasher is useless... Goto the VR room, run dual pounders and realize theres a far far far far far FAR worse AT gun then the lasher.

Never really had trouble thinking VS maxes are up, always been a even fight TR and VS maxes going head to head. 3 of the 4 VS max weapons deal 167 dmg vs TRs 143 with similair mag sizes and faster reload. I dont think they need a buff.

Falcon_br
2013-04-15, 01:50 AM
Yeah, pounders are of no use, I wasted like 50+ rounds today trying to blow a vehicle terminal! Tried to hit it from all distances to see if I was thing a deadzone.
The truth is, now when I see a nc max, I don't get instantly killed, I have time to run to cover, and from cover you can always pop up and hit a rocket on him, before the nerf, when you pop up you died before firing your rocket!
The nerf made them still better the other maxes in close range, but now you have a chance to kill them if you keep your distance and explore its long reload time.

Ruffdog
2013-04-15, 02:10 AM
Im honestly looking forward to the Zoe module for VS MAXes, it will make fights alot more interesting.

Just a guess but I think groups of VS ZOE maxes will pwn everything.

The new abilities will be like this

NC -> Shield mode -> offense (line breaker)
VS -> ZOE mode -> offense (line breaker)
TR -> Anchor mode -> defense (shit some line breakers are coming)

The real benefit for Anchor mode is going to be outside for the Burster guys.
I am inwardly excited about higher ROF on my dual Onslaughts though. Think I may be getting those extended mags soon.

hammsammich
2013-04-15, 02:51 AM
I still get my ass handed to me by an NC max up close. Put some distance between us and it is the opposite.

I run fully equipped regen armor so I don't have to be tied to an engineer. Has anyone ran a fully equipped anti small arms ability and found it to make a big difference?

Timealude
2013-04-15, 02:59 AM
Just a guess but I think groups of VS ZOE maxes will pwn everything.

The new abilities will be like this

NC -> Shield mode -> offense (line breaker)
VS -> ZOE mode -> offense (line breaker)
TR -> Anchor mode -> defense (shit some line breakers are coming)

The real benefit for Anchor mode is going to be outside for the Burster guys.
I am inwardly excited about higher ROF on my dual Onslaughts though. Think I may be getting those extended mags soon.

just from my experience in planetside 1 that lock down mode is going to be so scary going up against TR in towers and biolabs

Ruffdog
2013-04-15, 03:41 AM
I still get my ass handed to me by an NC max up close. Put some distance between us and it is the opposite.

I run fully equipped regen armor so I don't have to be tied to an engineer. Has anyone ran a fully equipped anti small arms ability and found it to make a big difference?

Yes I run 5% Kinetic. Its a gigantic difference. It's how MAXs should hold up against small arms.

Nur
2013-04-15, 04:05 AM
Stop whining NC!

NC MAXes are still very strong and you should know this very well.

psijaka
2013-04-15, 04:56 AM
Is this the weapon that fires a giant blue blob projectile?

I think that is the Comet; the VS AV launcher. It does 550 damage for a direct hit, so in theory one salvo will kill infantry, but only if they haven't upgraded their armour. Edit - as someone else pointed out, it could be the VS HA rocket launcher (I was killed by one in the video below).

The NC Falcon projectile leaves a smoke trail, but you can't really see the projectile itself. Damage 750 for a direct hit :D

psijaka
2013-04-15, 07:24 AM
The AV MAX guns, Falcons, really are pretty worthless. Takes I think around 20 shots to kill a lightning, and 2 shots won't kill infantry.

I couldn't disagree more; I have 1220 vehicle kills, the vast majority of these are with Dual Falcons.

I once killed a full health Lightning in 6 shots; some to the rear. And 2 shots on target, or one salvo with Dual Falcons, always kills infantry, with the possible exception of a full health HA with shields up. 1500 damage if you get both shots on target.

Planetside 2 continuous gameplay - MAX Dual Falcons at TI Alloys - YouTube

This was a particularly intense battle, with the VS attacking in strength from the North, and the TR pushing hard from the South.

Back on topic:
SoE are NEVER going to be able to balance a shotgun against an HMG. The sooner that they wake up and smell the coffee the better. The solution is to offer empire specific MAX shotguns to TR and VS, and a MAX HMG to the NC (I would love to run with something like Dual Mercies).

Koadster
2013-04-15, 07:46 AM
Yes I run 5% Kinetic. Its a gigantic difference. It's how MAXs should hold up against small arms.

Yeah been doin a lot of testing. seems 5% kinetic gives maxes an effective health of 13,600 and kinetic works using some kind of damage threshold. Also flak armour at lvl4 only resists 15% explosives not 20%


Detailed thread to follow.

Qwan
2013-04-15, 07:51 AM
It's all about burst damage whatever the range. If you can take your victim out in one salvo, they can't take cover or fire back. Which is why I'm a great fan of Dual Falcons.

Not sure what the video proves; difficult to pull off in game; whilst with good aim it is possible to land the first salvo on target if you catch them napping, they is hardly likely to stand still and take the 2nd and 3rd salvo.

No seriously have you ever fired the VS comets, I enganged a prowler the other day, at about 150m with duel comets. The driver got out repared his vehicle got back in fired off a volley from his tank, and when I was just getting off my second round to fire at him, he drove away and out ran my second volley of comet rounds. Other than that I use the max for AA or very, and I mean very close quarters combat. I think I got more punch kills with my max than I do with any of the weapons that can be purchased with the damn thing. The VS max is usless unless your engaging air with it.

NewSith
2013-04-15, 08:16 AM
Enemy MAXes in the eyes of other Empires:
http://cs521300.vk.me/u75295/doc/a3c440ce14ab/godmode.gif

MAXes in the eyes of their own empires:
http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u260/justisaurus_bucket/CripplePushedtotheFloor.gif

What the real situation with the balance is:
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lnt1j7WrE81qg39ewo1_500.gif

Assist
2013-04-15, 08:34 AM
just from my experience in planetside 1 that lock down mode is going to be so scary going up against TR in towers and biolabs

It's going to be scary being a tank and seeing a TR MAX.

psijaka
2013-04-15, 08:41 AM
No seriously have you ever fired the VS comets, I enganged a prowler the other day, at about 150m with duel comets. The driver got out repared his vehicle got back in fired off a volley from his tank, and when I was just getting off my second round to fire at him, he drove away and out ran my second volley of comet rounds. Other than that I use the max for AA or very, and I mean very close quarters combat. I think I got more punch kills with my max than I do with any of the weapons that can be purchased with the damn thing. The VS max is usless unless your engaging air with it.

I haven't tried Comets actually. On paper they have pretty much the same DPS as the Falcons, with lower damage/faster fire rate. Have to confess that I very rarely see them out there. Would like to hear from any Dual Comet fans, if indeed they exist.

I did try out Dual Pounders, and was rather underwhelmed. The only advantage that I could see over Falcons was that their somewhat higher DPS enables them to take down deployed Sunderers slightly faster (but even then, only if you are not having to duck in and out of cover to avoid return fire). In all other respects they are lame: half the damage per round (no infantry instakill), slower velocity, higher gravity (WTF?), shorter range.

Assist
2013-04-15, 08:47 AM
I haven't tried Comets actually. On paper they have pretty much the same DPS as the Falcons, but lower damage/faster fire rate. Have to confess that I very rarely see them out there. Would like to hear from any Dual Comet fans, if indeed they exist.


Doubt there's many. They're extremely inaccurate at range, seem to have a very slow projectile speed, and don't do near enough damage close up to warrant not running for your life from a tank.

Honestly though, I found them close to as efficient as the Cosmos for killing infantry, and far better at killing MAX's. However, the only reason I'll ever use the Comets is the enemy air is dead and all the infantry is dead, which never happens :P

Rothnang
2013-04-15, 11:33 AM
The MAX Anti-Armor weapons are supposedly getting a buff with the next patch.

As long as they stay relatively short range I have no objections to them dealing significantly more damage.

ChipMHazard
2013-04-15, 11:42 AM
Me neither, they are limited by their magazine size. One thing though... I don't really see the point of the old AT weapons when they add in the new MAX rocket launchers, unless they are planning on making them lock-on "shudders".

psijaka
2013-04-15, 11:59 AM
Doubt there's many. They're extremely inaccurate at range, seem to have a very slow projectile speed, and don't do near enough damage close up to warrant not running for your life from a tank.

Honestly though, I found them close to as efficient as the Cosmos for killing infantry, and far better at killing MAX's. However, the only reason I'll ever use the Comets is the enemy air is dead and all the infantry is dead, which never happens :P

I've found someone who likes Dual Comets; a rare breed.

PS2 Weapons: Vanu MAX Dual-Comets - YouTube

I'm actually tempted to give them a try!

psijaka
2013-04-15, 12:04 PM
The MAX Anti-Armor weapons are supposedly getting a buff with the next patch.

As long as they stay relatively short range I have no objections to them dealing significantly more damage.

The Pounder needs a buff certainly, but I see no reason whatsoever to buff the Falcon; I'm certainly quite happy with it as it is, good against armour unless you are caught out in the open, and deadly against infantry at medium range.

At the very least, the Pounder needs it's gravity reducing from 2 to 1.5 (the Falcon figure). The combination of slower projectile speed AND high gravity really gimps it right now.

Koadster
2013-04-15, 12:15 PM
NC max useless past 10meters.. Logged on with a friend, I killed him with only 10 rounds from the default scatter cannon.. at 43meters.. Running the more accurate dual mattocks your effective at 50meters easy.. NC whining has never been more laughable now.

AuntLou
2013-04-15, 12:37 PM
First off the problem (and still is the problem) with NC maxes is they instagib infantry. Max vs. Max is not the issue. Somehow they need to nerf the instagibbing without affecting the Max vs. Max. Unless maybe that is just going to be the disadvantage/trade off of the NC max. They can instagib but will loose in a Max Vs. Max battle. I'd prefer if they just got rid of the instagib, it really sucks that you don't even have time to react and run away. Doesn't even make sense for any faction that a defensive unit should be so offensively gifted, it's insane. I really think after they come out w/ the special abilities all MAX will have to be nerfed to some degree.



While the NC max can instagib infantry a TR and Vanu MAX can do it just as well and at further ranges.

This is completely false, your really discrediting yourself here. At first I was like ok I'll hear this guy out and then I read this. Basically your saying the TR and Vanu MAX instagib at range?

Rothnang
2013-04-15, 12:42 PM
Yea, people don't realize how huge of a difference it makes. Sure, the other faction's MAX units will kill you really damn fast, but even just 0.5 seconds makes the difference between smacking them in the face with a Decimator or simply dying the instant they see you.

psijaka
2013-04-15, 01:40 PM
First off the problem (and still is the problem) with NC maxes is they instagib infantry. Max vs. Max is not the issue. Somehow they need to nerf the instagibbing without affecting the Max vs. Max. Unless maybe that is just going to be the disadvantage/trade off of the NC max. They can instagib but will loose in a Max Vs. Max battle. I'd prefer if they just got rid of the instagib, it really sucks that you don't even have time to react and run away. Doesn't even make sense for any faction that a defensive unit should be so offensively gifted, it's insane. I really think after they come out w/ the special abilities all MAX will have to be nerfed to some degree.

This is an interesting statement.

I would like to ask the community whether you think that it is the ability of the NC AI MAX to instagib infantry that is the problem, or the fact that the TR and VS MAXes can't.

And I would like to point out that I don't use the NC AI MAX, and I'm pretty neutral on the OP debate.

Timealude
2013-04-15, 02:55 PM
This is an interesting statement.

I would like to ask the community whether you think that it is the ability of the NC AI MAX to instagib infantry that is the problem, or the fact that the TR and VS MAXes can't.

And I would like to point out that I don't use the NC AI MAX, and I'm pretty neutral on the OP debate.

for awhile me and my outfit hated the scat max crashes but eventually we have found ways around them like dropping c4 in front of teleporter doors or using concussion grenades on points we know scat maxs are at. Also we have learned you have to range them a bit and move a bit more as you can tell the difference from a bad MAX pilot and a good one.

ChipMHazard
2013-04-15, 04:31 PM
I would like to ask the community whether you think that it is the ability of the NC AI MAX to instagib infantry that is the problem, or the fact that the TR and VS MAXes can't.


By Higby's beard and by all that is good and holy, nooo!

I'm sure that there are players who will claim that they would love that, but personally I want to see the amount of OHK AI weapons kept to a minimum. I would absolutely hate it if every MAX recieved an AI weapon that could kill instantly when used on both arms.

AuntLou
2013-04-15, 06:01 PM
This is an interesting statement.

I would like to ask the community whether you think that it is the ability of the NC AI MAX to instagib infantry that is the problem, or the fact that the TR and VS MAXes can't.

And I would like to point out that I don't use the NC AI MAX, and I'm pretty neutral on the OP debate.

Pretty sure it's just the fact that NC has it. The most defensive infantry unit you have should not also be the most offensive. Who knows, maybe the VS and TR maxes TTK will improve after the patch and things will be more even. But that's not what I want, infantry should have a chance to react, run, fire back, do something and not get instagibbed.

Chewy
2013-04-15, 06:41 PM
Pretty sure it's just the fact that NC has it. The most defensive infantry unit you have should not also be the most offensive. Who knows, maybe the VS and TR maxes TTK will improve after the patch and things will be more even. But that's not what I want, infantry should have a chance to react, run, fire back, do something and not get instagibbed.

I finally got Dxtory recordings to work with Window Moive Maker (yes Im still to cheap to buy better software) and began to re-record all of my old tests of MAX weapons TTK and bullet counts at various ranges. So if I can get off my ass when the MAX update comes I should have something after a few days past GU7 with a bit of luck.

I wont be able to give real gameplay tests as I am not a good gamer, but they will be a baseline for what the weapons can do before player skill is added by way of the VR room. It won't be just cherry picked results like what Shamrock posted either. I'll show at least 3 attempts at each range per weapon (more if the numbers get random) until it is pointless to continue thanks to ammo use and/or to great of a range.

Whiteagle
2013-04-15, 06:48 PM
What the real situation with the balance is:
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lnt1j7WrE81qg39ewo1_500.gif
The Balance Situation is the Iowa State Fair Grounds in the early 1900s?

psijaka
2013-04-15, 08:35 PM
No seriously have you ever fired the VS comets, I enganged a prowler the other day, at about 150m with duel comets

Well curiosity got the better of me and I spent £4 on 500 SC; enough to top up my account so that I could buy the 2nd Comet and run Dual.

First impressions:

+ Easy to use against stationary targets as it has zero projectile drop - although I'm so used to compensating for this that it will take a bit of time to actually aim at the target rather than above it.

- Not as reliable at medium range as Dual Falcons against infantry - lower damage so someone at full health and with nanoweave might survive 2 hits; and as they can see the slow and highly visible projectiles coming, players have time to react and move out of the way - This happened several times; something that tends not to when I'm using Falcons.

- slow projectile speed makes it trickier to lead shots, despite zero drop. Perhaps I need more time to adapt.

- low ammo; same as the Falcon but with faster fire rate and lower damage I would have expected more; say 60 instead of 45.

Verdict so far - needs a buff!

DirtyBird
2013-04-15, 09:33 PM
Speaking of MAXes:
https://twitter.com/mhigby/status/323967237901922304

And for those at work, you know who you are...
We're pulling the MAX update from GU07 this week. We want to get some more time to test and tune before releasing it. Sorry about that!

KesTro
2013-04-15, 11:32 PM
NC max useless past 10meters.. Logged on with a friend, I killed him with only 10 rounds from the default scatter cannon.. at 43meters.. Running the more accurate dual mattocks your effective at 50meters easy.. NC whining has never been more laughable now.

The ability to farm infantry was never being disputed it's the MAX vs MAX I'm talking about. And unless the TR are dumb enough to stand still for those 10 shots I don't think you'll be doing any killing at that range.