To the Community and the Developers

[OctavianAXFive]

To Both,

Take it one thing at a time.

To the Community,

I've decided that Planetside 2 is very much still a beta. It's like the Death Star in Episode VI. Sure it's operational, but obviously incomplete and vulnerable.

Think of some of the game’s problems like scaffolding. They are not a part of the structure itself, but rather hold it up while more fundamental changes are made. There's no point in fixing the scaffolding if it's temporary.

I like brainstorming just as much as the next guy. I have issues with the game that I have made clear before. But if we as a community keep shotgunning out a massive stream of posts about things we find wrong with the game, then the devs will have a hard time figuring out what is a priority to address.

This is exactly why they made the Roadmap. Sure it's not perfect and is only half the battle, but it helps give them a better idea of what we actually care about.

To the Developers,

I think it would be helpful if you don't play your cards quite as close to your chest as you do. You're great about previewing new things but as far as fixes and changes go, you aren't all that engaging. Even if you don't have anything to show, tell us about your ideas for a new feature as you go through the process of making it. Feedback on something you've almost completed is not as useful if you've almost finished it by the time we get a chance to see it.

It'd be nice to see a rep from SoE pop in on PSU more often and do a thread addressing some of the things we’ve been talking about around here. I’m sure you do read quite a bit of what we have to say. But we don't really see many responses. I know you're busy and I know at work you probably don't have time to respond and at home you probably want to take your mind off of your job. But if you could find some time to come around here more often and respond, it would be appreciated immensely.

A little bit more community interaction here would go a long way in helping us understand some of your design goals which would in turn allow us to provide more useful feedback. I don’t want to talk about adjusting the "scaffolding" if you have something entirely different in mind.

I do hope that metaphor makes sense.

-OctavianAX5

[Phantomdestiny]

i approve

[Mietz]

I've decided that Planetside 2 is very much still a beta. It's like the Death Star in Episode VI. Sure it's operational, but obviously incomplete and vulnerable.

Think of some of the game’s problems like scaffolding. They are not a part of the structure itself, but rather hold it up while more fundamental changes are made. There's no point in fixing the scaffolding if it's temporary.

Wait, so we are playing and some of us paying for a product that
a. isn't finished (incomplete)
b. has temporary rules (scaffolding)
c. that are subject to change (into structure)

Seems legit, lets continue to support SOE!

[Hamma]

I'd love to see more dev interaction here. In the end one thing we have to remember is when devs post often people take it as a promise even when it isn't. That's why they are careful about posting intricate future thoughts. They don't want posts saying OMG HIGBY PROMISED X AND NOW WE ARE GETTING Z

[Brusi]

So which one is the Emperor and which one is Darth Vadar?

[Micro]

I've decided that Planetside 2 is very much still a beta. It's like the Death Star in Episode VI. Sure it's operational, but obviously incomplete and vulnerable
That sums it up, perfectly! :)

And I approve your post, everyone should read this thread (and the devs should answer. ^_^)

[Falcon_br]

Yeah, it is operational, and we are having a lot of fun with it, despite all olds bugs and all newly introduced ones.
Metagame will arrive some day, and with the test server, we all hope that no new abominations patch will even arrive again and ruin a double xp event.

[Ghoest9]

Can we please stop using the "beta" word?

Yes the game is still in development - the devs have said as much.
No its not in "beta".
If you read Smeds long term hopes for the game its clear that it will only stop changing at the point that they give up on it.

Using that term pretty much just means you annoyed a devs before they one started reading(if they even bothered).

[CToxin]

Planetside 2 is an MMO as well as a FPS. It will stop being in development the day it dies. It will never be perfect and that is just fine. Yes, it would be nice if the devs were more open, but they are already more open than any other dev team I know of. They have a roadmap, a public test server so everyone can try out the things they are working on (ok, not all the things, ::sadface::), and they in some way communicate with the community every week (FNO, Command Center, etc). They are also fairly talkative on twitter.
I would, however, prefer if they posted on either the official forums or here more often, but as Hamma says, they don't want people going RAGEFACE WHY IS X NOT Y AND INSTEAD Z I QUIT anymore than they already do.

[fierce deity]

To Both,

Take it one thing at a time.

To the Community,

I've decided that Planetside 2 is very much still a beta. It's like the Death Star in Episode VI. Sure it's operational, but obviously incomplete and vulnerable.

Think of some of the game’s problems like scaffolding. They are not a part of the structure itself, but rather hold it up while more fundamental changes are made. There's no point in fixing the scaffolding if it's temporary.

I like brainstorming just as much as the next guy. I have issues with the game that I have made clear before. But if we as a community keep shotgunning out a massive stream of posts about things we find wrong with the game, then the devs will have a hard time figuring out what is a priority to address.

This is exactly why they made the Roadmap. Sure it's not perfect and is only half the battle, but it helps give them a better idea of what we actually care about.

To the Developers,

I think it would be helpful if you don't play your cards quite as close to your chest as you do. You're great about previewing new things but as far as fixes and changes go, you aren't all that engaging. Even if you don't have anything to show, tell us about your ideas for a new feature as you go through the process of making it. Feedback on something you've almost completed is not as useful if you've almost finished it by the time we get a chance to see it.

It'd be nice to see a rep from SoE pop in on PSU more often and do a thread addressing some of the things we’ve been talking about around here. I’m sure you do read quite a bit of what we have to say. But we don't really see many responses. I know you're busy and I know at work you probably don't have time to respond and at home you probably want to take your mind off of your job. But if you could find some time to come around here more often and respond, it would be appreciated immensely.

A little bit more community interaction here would go a long way in helping us understand some of your design goals which would in turn allow us to provide more useful feedback. I don’t want to talk about adjusting the "scaffolding" if you have something entirely different in mind.

I do hope that metaphor makes sense.

-OctavianAX5

Agreed. Clearly laying out their short, medium, and long term objectives for this game, and releasing highly detailed patch notes a few days before each game update would definitely improve community relations. It would be nice if the devs replied to more posts here, on the main forums, and reddit, even if they just said "acknowledged". That way we will at least know they have seen our ideas.

So which one is the Emperor and which one is Darth Vadar?

Smedley is the emperor of course. Wisenhunt being TR is Vader. Luperza is Leia by default. Higby being NC is luke. Clegg also being NC is Han Solo. That leaves T-Ray as Lando Calrissian.

[OctavianAXFive]

Ghoest, I did read what Smedley had to say. Please, don't take me for a fool. Your condescending tone is unwelcome and not constructive.

I used the word beta very specifically because it gets across the point that I believe that the game is, in a very fundamental way, unfinished.

"Beta" gets used a lot because it speaks to the experience players have with the game. "It feels like a beta" translates simply to "it feels unfinished." As consumers of video games we expect certain benchmarks be met before we are satisfied with a product. By labeling Planetside 2 as being in a "beta state" we get across the point that we are not satisfied with the fundamentals of the game. The challenge the developers then have is "what are those fundamentals that feel unfinished?" I believe they know in their heart of hearts what those things are.

I know what it's like to have a manuscript "written" but not "finished." Until you get the manuscript to where you want it, it drives you crazy and if people read it before it's done, you get this itch because you know it can and will be better. The creative leaders on the development team have to feel that itch right now.

But in this digital age and in this medium in particular, the creative minds behind the game are not its only curators. We, the players, are the curators too.

We are hijacking the meaning of the word "beta" beyond its usual use for product development. We (and particularly I) am using it as a rhetorical tool meant to illustrate a feeling of "incompleteness" experienced while playing the game.

What a lot of you are objecting to can be summed up as follows:

Art is never finished, only abandoned.

I don't think that's always true, but in this case I think it's apt.

We are given many tools with which to stand up and say something to the developers when we are not satisfied. Do not be passive and simply say "they'll figure it out, it's fine." They have gone out of their way to give you a voice in the development process. All I'm asking is that they have more of a dialogue with us so we might make better use of that voice.

[Canaris]

I'd love to see more dev interaction here. In the end one thing we have to remember is when devs post often people take it as a promise even when it isn't. That's why they are careful about posting intricate future thoughts. They don't want posts saying OMG HIGBY PROMISED X AND NOW WE ARE GETTING Z

he just needs to be more careful how he presents things is all, not our fault we twist his words with such ease ;)

[Varsam]

Wait, so we are playing and some of us paying for a product that
a. isn't finished (incomplete)
b. has temporary rules (scaffolding)
c. that are subject to change (into structure)

Seems legit, lets continue to support SOE!

I don't see how that's fundamentally different from any other MP game ever.

[Ohaunlaim]

Devs should just come and tell us the directions they decided NOT to go with their updates/changes. Keeps us guessing, still provides information to throw curves into the discussion, and prevents people from getting butthurt by assuming that promises were made.

[Mietz]

I don't see how that's fundamentally different from any other MP game ever.

You inability to spot the difference is not relevant.

[Carbon Copied]

Echoes of the OP observations.

I remember during the Alpha/Beta hype there was alot of emphasis on community / Dev interaction and in comparison it feels like alot has died off quite abit. Yes theres the road map, reddit, here but things and ideas get swamped in there and lost.

Now I'm not saying that devs should/has to respond to every suggestion or idea as thats totally impractical followed by the select ones picked out as inane no starters and could literally spend all working hours with just forum interaction which is quite hostile at times - but the ones that keep cropping up for example: base defenses (walls), capture mechanic improvements, night time etc. there are few topics that could be laid to rest or at least inputted with discussion from with a simple answer of "We're looking at X, Y, Z - we're even going to test it on the Test Server to see if it works before we say it just isn't going in" or even "No sorry not a hope in hell, this is why though <insert technical limitation etc.>" - sometimes it feels like answers are too ambiguous with a "we're looking at adding cover" style answer; well that wasn't really the answer to the question..

Also with the asking of suggestions and input theres no feedback to say "it's a good idea but it's not for our game" kind of thing - I'm not saying each idea needs a pat on the back but an indication of the types of ideas they want to entertain are more clear / relevant and we can take our ideas back to the drawing board and say how we've adjusted them to make them more practical or viable. There's been great ideas and suggestions from across the board but there's been no feedback there - I think that it was even mentioned by Higby to the effect of "sometimes players have better ideas than us" in one of the many past interviews.

Now I know that devs can't be 100% transparent either because they don't want to spoil a surprise or they simply can't say - but when you can see the passion in the community and it feels like you're beating your head against a brick wall.. that's I think when people start getting tetchy with each other and the development system.

Maybe Hamma can schedule a more frequent Q&A orientated event with a dev etc. like there used to be? If that fits in with their schedules.

[EvilNinjadude]

I'd love to see more dev interaction here. In the end one thing we have to remember is when devs post often people take it as a promise even when it isn't. That's why they are careful about posting intricate future thoughts. They don't want posts saying OMG HIGBY PROMISED X AND NOW WE ARE GETTING Z

Other people whose content is going through changes get this too, the most notable I can think of are Youtubers. TotalBiscuit has had problems with people claiming his WTF is... series are shoddy reviews, has had people demand certain content, etc. The Yogscast have a similar Issue with people copypasting mock complaints from "parents" who claim to be offended by the use of language on their channel.

It's going to happen, it's happening, and 90% of people feel that people who post such crybaby unresearched points or simple troll post have no place in this universe, period. 9% don't know about it. 1% are the assholes who do it.

And like SOE, I don't want crap flung in my direction every time I post, but the important thing is that they are the so-called "vocal minority". The more minor the more vocal. Please, SOE, don't let those idiots dissuade you from posting.

PS: Some people are genuinely immature and have the aforementioned fundamental ALLCAPS reaction to this. I pity them if it's not their fault, otherwise I don't.

[Thunderhawk]

I think the main reason why we don't see that many Devs posting is that any constructive debate gets derailed as soon as a Dev posts because everyone tries to ask then questions directly, the debate ceases whilst people continue to ask them the questions that are more important to them.

From previous posts and from tweets I am sure the devs read these posts when they're well thought out and constructive.

I treat every post I make as one that potentially can be seen by a dev and work from that.

Keep the debate going, its getting read, if not by the devs then by the rest of this community which by-and-large has some really amazing theorists and has some excellent suggestions for how to.make the game better.

Case in point:-

1. Lattices: first discussed at length here.
2. Global camo button: first discussed at length here.
3. Sunderer AMS: OK this was discussed by us but on the closed Beta forums, but the same people here posted there.
4. Spawn room tunnels: first discussed here.

Etc....



.Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S4 using Tapatalk2

[ChipMHazard]

The devs are most certainly active, when it comes to reading threads:D