Weapon Category comparison chart

[Rothnang]

I created a chart to visualize the differences in how various weapon categories fire. It uses a pretty broad interpretation of some of the larger weapon categories, so it's not super accurate, just a little picture to better visualize the differences in range and accuracy.

http://i.imgur.com/uw2qego.jpg

[Falcon_br]

Good dude, keep doing drawings, someday you may receive a prize for it.
If you were doing a graph, please, use some kind of graph software so it can make some sense.
And about the subject, I think we already gave you a feedback about it, maybe not all of us, but most said something like that.

http://youtu.be/RAA1xgTTw9w

Also you could have included this chart in one of the many topics on subject, you really don't needed to create a new one for a lame work.
But I think the judgment is up to the moderators, something I am not.

[Dougnifico]

I'm sorry, I love that you made the chart but that response ^ was priceless.

[Rothnang]

Yup, it just wouldn't be PSU without people who get insulting and really angry about stuff that "nobody cares about".

Anyways, I made an improved version:

http://i.imgur.com/uw2qego.jpg

[Snydenthur]

Can you please make some sense to the "chart"? I understand that more red = easier to hit. But what's with the curves and the width?

[LoliLoveFart]

What he is trying to say in a very round-a-bout way is that infantry can engage vehicles at a longer range then vehicles can engage infantry.
Another thread to say the same thing dude? Really?
I am going to assume the width is the COF and the curves are their expected flight path, other then that I got nothing.

[Rothnang]

Actually it's just a chart showing various weapon ranges and how their projectiles move.

[LoliLoveFart]

Then why include the infantry render range?

[Rothnang]

Why not include it?

[LoliLoveFart]

I guess I'll break down graphs for you.
A graph is a visual representation of a group of statistics or values.
Every piece of information you put on a graph helps or hinders the point you are trying to make.
You can put on a ton of different statistics and overwhelm the person viewing it so they just nod and agree instead of try and break it down.
In your case you have made a graph of the expected ranges you can hit a vehicle with and the weapons cof and projectile behaviour. That in and of itself is fine, but then you added the infantry render range. So now instead of a graph on how AV weapons work and their ranges it now reads something like this, "Infantry can easily hit vehicles at X ranges with Y weapons while they can't be seen".

2 cents.

[Rothnang]

It's just a chart with visual representations of how various projectiles move and how easy it is to hit something with them. It specifically seeks to visualize something that you need to have a feel for in the game rather than something based on hard data.

If that makes you angry, oh well, don't look at it.

[Dragonskin]

I don't think it is making any one angry, but it is yet another post about how infantry can engage vehicles much farther than vehicles can engage infantry. Which by your post history is a real tangent you have been on for some time... particularly with your lib. There isn't any other factual information in the graph.

[psijaka]

Oh for goodness sake will you lot grow up!

Whatever message Rothnang is trying to get across, the plots are very interesting and do (correctly) portray the dominance of infantry AV weapons at long range. And this comes from a dedicated infantry player, not a vehicle whore (check my stats if you don't believe me).

Good work, Rothnang.

[KesTro]

Oh for goodness sake will you lot grow up!

Whatever message Rothnang is trying to get across, the plots are very interesting and do (correctly) portray the dominance of infantry AV weapons at long range. And this comes from a dedicated infantry player, not a vehicle whore (check my stats if you don't believe me).

Good work, Rothnang.

I mainly play infantry but whenever I hop in a vehicle it's gone in a matter of minutes against any sort of dedicated defense before I even knew what hit me.
Some people will say this is the way it's supposed to be, maybe so. The game is certainly better now than when vehicles were unstoppable but it is a little BS when the best counter to everything is something you pay nothing for IE: Heavy Assault. That's how I see it anyhow.

[Ghoest9]

So you made a graph of how you feel about the different weapons?

[Hamma]

Contribute.. or do not post. That is the question.

Come on guys.. nothing valid to say about his graph? Don't post.

[Neutral Calypso]

I see mainly questions about what exactly his graph is intended to mean. Is asking for clarification non-contribution?

That being said, some should be more tactful about it.

[Dragonskin]

I created a chart to visualize the differences in how various weapon categories fire. It uses a pretty broad interpretation of some of the larger weapon categories, so it's not super accurate, just a little picture to better visualize the differences in range and accuracy.

http://i.imgur.com/uw2qego.jpg

K, since Hamma wants people to contribute. I'll bite. I'm bored and just finished the Defiance pilot and about to go to bed.

Heavy arms and small arms... not much to comment on. I would say good luck hitting people with either very easy past 100m.. much less the near 250m you have for heavy arms and 200m you have for small arms. So you can tone those cones back some.

Sniper rifles are fine I guess.. your cone for them might as well stop at 300m since infantry don't render past 300m. Unless you are shooting a ESF then going past 300m is completely useless. I would also argue a good shot could hit a stationary target at render distance fairly easily.

Heavy Beam weapons? This confuses me. If you are talking about the Lancer it tops off at 700m. If you are firing at infantry or flashes you would likely miss past 100m since you have a 1x-2x scope. Otherwise stationary targets are easy to hit till distance limit while moving targets take a great deal more skill... so 1 straight line isn't actually very telling of what kind of information you are trying to portray. It should look closer to the sniper rifle graphic you have.

Lock-on missiles go well past 550m spot you stopped at. Depending on the weapon... AV or AA they have specific range limits at 800m and 920m respectively. The farther the target from you the less likely you will hit it unless you have a clear shot that is unobstructed for the duration of the flight. You graph seems to show the opposite.. that at max distance it's a guaranteed hit. That's just inaccurate because if it is a ground vehicle any terrain can potentially stop the missile and if it is an air target then they can usually fly past cover or afterburn towards the ground to throw the missiles into the ground. Otherwise you are talking about ESF missiles... which I don't think your range is accurate at all even if you have max rank for lock on distance. I could be wrong though.

Camera guided missiles are extremely easy to hit with.. which is why NC was using them for sniper rifles. Not sure why you have a wavy line... I guess you are just showing movement... but why don't the lock-on missiles have any movement in the lines?

Dumb fire rockets are good till 320m or 400m and have a heavy arch to reach that distance... Good luck hitting anything at max distance... I guess this is the most accurate depiction you have so far.

Wire guided missiles. I guess this is the MANA AV turret? Not sure why you have the movement in the line.. it's a fairly straight shot weapon.. if you are pulling out tons of movement with the missile then the ease of hit would drastically fall off. Also the range is the farthest in the game... I don't remember the number accurately... I seem to remember it's around 900m though so I think you should make your line longer. Again I could be wrong on this one.

Flak... ease of hit all the way out to 700m or more meters? I don't think so. You can learn to lead your target but at those ranges your target should be able to dodge you fairly easy. I would put major fall off on ease of hit around the 300-400m mark instead.

Cannons... don't have a ton of experience with them. I guess your graph is kinda accurate... maybe if someone cares they can comment.

So.. since most of the graph is misleading in my opinion I am going to go back to my original statement of it really only showing that infantry weapons can reach farther engagements than vehicle can engage infantry.

Good night.

[psijaka]

Are we absolutely certain that infantry don't render past 300m?

Where does this figure come from; is it published or has someone done some methodical testing?

Comments about the chart (constructive, I hope).

- is it really relatively easy to score a long range hit with the beam weapon? Surely there is a good chance that the tank will move? This is pretty elemental tactics; stay in one place in this game and you'll get hit. Edit - I've realised that I don't know the velocity of the beam weapon.

- same applies to the lock on; surely at longer ranges the target will have more time to deploy countermeasures, duck behind cover or flee, so some drop off in hit rate would be appropriate.

- likewise flack. I am guilty of doing AA duty from time to time, and the spread of the projectiles alone means that many miss even at medium range. Then you have to factor in the fact that the target is fast moving and a good pilot will dodge around to avoid AA.

- wire guided missiles travel in a straight line. The launcher does kick up slightly upon launch, and you have to correct for this, but other than that, it's dead straight. Again, I think that you have been a little generous with accuracy at range; not at all easy to hit a moving target at 700m (see note above about movement being a basic tactic).

- just a note - AV MAX (TR and NC) have a similar trajectory to that shown for a rocket launcher, although the TR version has more drop. Ranges are 350/400m. VS is a straight line to 300m, but is not easy to hit due to slow projectile speed (movement again!).

Again; good work though. :)

[Varsam]

Contribute.. or do not post. That is the question.

Come on guys.. nothing valid to say about his graph? Don't post.

Hard to add to what is essentially a graph of how a single guy "feels" the game is, instead of quantifiable metrics (which is pretty counter-intuitive to what graphs actually are).

If you posted this to advance your pro-vehicle agenda, then it's pretty transparent. If you truly made this graph just... because, then congrats, I guess, even though the graph is pretty arbitrary overall, and incredibly subjective at points.

[psijaka]

Despite it's minor flaws and Rothnang's history of being against long range infantry AV weapons, the graph gives a good "feel" for how the different weapons stack up against one another.

I for one appreciate the thought and effort that has gone into it's creation. Credit where credit is due!

[Snydenthur]

- wire guided missiles travel in a straight line. The launcher does kick up slightly upon launch, and you have to correct for this, but other than that, it's dead straight. Again, I think that you have been a little generous with accuracy at range; not at all easy to hit a moving target at 700m (see note above about movement being a basic tactic).

Yes, wire guided goest straight after the minor upward motion from the "recoil". It's actually very hard to hit something at distance, since you have no zoom and the game has awful mouse movement on this thing. You'll either have to lower the sensitivity to very low to have a chance to hit very long range targets or keep it somewhere a bit faster to have a chance at medium-long range. If you up the sensitivity too much, moving one pixel means that in game it jumps like 10 pixels, even at low sensitivity it does this but it isn't as bad. And hitting a moving target at long range requires a lot of practise, since you don't actually know how close you are to hitting enemy. I'd say the maximum range for a new player would be like 100-200m, unless the enemy is stupid and doesn't move at all.

[Rothnang]

In the VRTA if you plop down a waypoint on an infantry target and move away from it it will visibly disappear at 300 meters (give or take a few, since the waypoint method isn't 100% accurate)

During actual combat conditions the render range is likely less because it decreases with more people around.

The wavy lines and big swooping curve on the guided missiles are supposed to indicate that you can control them in flight and choose from a variety of trajectories. It's just a bit of artistic liberty to try and show how they move. The reason why the wire guided missile goes up before coming down is because that's how most experienced operators will fire it to avoid having the target obscured by the missiles smoke trail, fire it up, then have it decent on the target so you can easily see it the entire time.

The reason why the lock-on missile shows 100% ease of scoring a hit is because it's supposed to be measure of how much your own ability can change whether or not you hit. Flares and cover aren't something the shooter controls, so the fact that lock ons can in fact miss is not indicated in the coloration.


I think Flak is extremely easy to hit with compared to all other weapons. It fires fast, the bullets have very high speed, and they explode if they come anywhere near the target. At range you will experience a loss in damage since bore bullets might miss, but you're still going to score some hits pretty easily.

[martingee]

Are we absolutely certain that infantry don't render past 300m?



From a purely anecdotal point of view its around that figure, though as an Infiltrator my longest ranged headshot was ~330m, give or take 10m. That was from atop of the hill infront of The Crown to a guy on top of 'C' at The Crown.

We know its situational depending on the number of enemies, direction your facing etc; i don't think 300m is a hard cap but if there is a hard cap its not much more beyond that.