Are MAX AI weapons balanced yet?

[Chewy]

-WARNING-
This is going to be a long post so fucking read it before posting.
:rawr:

With GU7 comes tweaks to just about every AI weapons for all MAXes. NC got tweaks a bit back and now TR and VS have gotten theirs. Question is.

Are things balanced yet?

I have 3 videos of the factions most ranged AI MAX weapons. One for the NC Mattock, TR Mercy, and VS Cosmos. They show a base level of what those weapons take to kill both a MAX and an infantry at ranges up to 40m for MAX kills and up to 50m for infantry kills. For watcher convenience I added in an approximate amount of rounds need for each testing and/or at each range on the screen so that none has to count them out themselves. Only the number of shots fired from starting to the kill popup are counted. I may be off by a few rounds in my counts but it should be a decent base number.

Also these tests where made to remove as much player skill as possible. All shots are fired from a standing position and on none moving VR targets. To add player skill (for both shooter and target) adds more variables that one can account for in a VR room and only makes an endless loop of "what ifs" that change more than players skill depending on everything from locations to the time of day. This is to get a BASE LINE of what the weapons can do in combat. They will do better in the hands of better players and worse in the hands of a worse player. I can not account for the skill of thousands of players that each have their own skill level, playstyle, mind set, and what else that makes that person a person. To do so would take thousands of players and millions of hours between them.

With that said, lets start.

Mattock tests-
New NC MAX Mattock tests - YouTube

MAX tests.
Distance - number of shots per test
0m- 15
10m- 16, 16, 17, 17
20m- 33, 27, 32
30m- 44, 41
40m- 74

Infantry tests
Distance - number of shot per test
0m- 2
10m- 4, 3, 3
20m- 4, 5, 4, 6, 5, 4, 6, 4
30m- 11, 18, 9, 8, 10, 8, 10
40m- 28, 16, 10, 18, 14


Mercy tests-
New TR MAX Mercy tests - YouTube

MAX tests.
Distance - number of shots per range
0m- 80
10m- 76, 78, 72 (random headshots are the reason for lower nubmers than 0m)
20m- 110, 100, 106, 110
30m- 142, 132, 134
40m- 150

Infantry tests.
Distance - number of shots per range
0m- 9
10m- 18, 12, 16
20m- 18, 20, 18
30m- 22, 26, 18, 26, 30
40m- 16, 40, 24, 34, 20, 30
50m- 40, 44, 56, 26


Cosmos test-
New VS MAX Cosmos tests - YouTube

MAX tests.
Distance - number of shots per test
0m- 59
10m- 64, 62, 60
20m- 66, 86, 74, 70
30m- 118, 108, 118, 98
40m- 140

Infantry tests.
Distance - number of shots per test
0m- 6
10m- 10, 10, 10
20m- 12, 14, 10
30m- 32, 22, 14, 18, 22
40m- 20, 14, 24, 14
50m- 36, 26, 44, 18, 50, 40, 50


With test numbers we can get TTK. First we need just 1 number per range. (math- all tests added together then divided by total number of tests)


Mattock-
MAX
0m- 15
10m- 16.5
20m- 30.6
30m- 42.5
40m- 74

Infantry
0m- 2
10m- 3.3
20m- 4.75
30m- 10.57
40m- 17.2

Mercy-
MAX
0m- 80
10m- 75.3
20m- 106.5
30m- 136
40m- 150

Infantry
0m- 9
10m- 15.3
20m- 18.6
30m- 24.4
40m- 27.3
50m- 41.5


Cosmos-
MAX
0m- 59
10m- 62
20m- 74
30m- 110.5
40m- 140

Infantry
0m- 6
10m- 10
20m- 12
30m- 21.6
40m- 18
50m- 37.71

Now for the TTK. Pulled stats from here
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AuOojvNLMApVdEtIU1NKenEzNzZOSWNaanFqSUVxLW c&type=view&gid=12&f=true&sortcolid=-1&sortasc=true&rowsperpage=250
Math- (ROF/60= RPS * 2 = dual RPS) test count / dual RPS + reload time (if needed) = TTK
Mattock dual RPS = 6
Mercy dual RPS = 14.2
Cosmos dual RPS = 11.23

MAX
Mattock - Mercy - Cosmos
0m- 6.3 - 5.63 - 5.25
10m- 6.55 - 5.3 - 5.52
20m- 12.7 - 10.5 - 6.58
30m- 18.48 - 12.57 - 9.83
40m- 35.1 - 13.56 - 12.46

Infantry
Mattock - Mercy - Cosmos
0m- .33 - .63 - .53
10m- .55 - 1.07 - .89
20m- .79 - 1.3 - 1.06
30m- 1.76 - 1.71 - 1.92
40m- 6.6 - 1.92 - 1.6
50m- N/A - 2.92 - 3.35





I think that is it. Im running out of time to type this before dinner and am drawing a blank on what else to add. I covered TTK, shots to kill counts, and gave everything I used in these tests I could but giving my settings (Ultra) PC specs (stayed at about 60FPS for all recordings) and number of bathroom breaks took (none of your damned business).

As that I was to the one to make these videos, pull all of the data, AND do the math I will not give an opinion. Bias is there and I can't remove it so you're getting just my data, how I got it, and nothing more. Please use it to beat me with if you are able to. :domotwak:

Not yet edited for errors I missed in the 1-2 hours typing this.

(I love the domo emotes for some unknown reason #don'tjudgeme)

[KesTro]

I guess I'm blatantly biased on this topic but it doesn't seem to make sense to me that they nerf NC Max Vs. Max and leave Max Vs. Infantry in nearly the same state which is what I thought people were QQing about the most. That's my take on it.

TR and VS seem to be pretty on par now though, I suppose that's a good thing.

[Chewy]

I guess I'm blatantly biased on this topic but it doesn't seem to make sense to me that they nerf NC Max Vs. Max and leave Max Vs. Infantry in nearly the same state which is what I thought people were QQing about the most. That's my take on it.

TR and VS seem to be pretty on par now though, I suppose that's a good thing.

It would be near impossible to not affect damage to MAXes when accounting for infantry thanks to it still being the same damage type. There's also the fact that NC only have shotguns while the other 2 have HMGs. You can't balance those weapons without something giving in and buckling over.

As for the TR and VS being on par. They are not. The Cosmos has about a 10m extra range than the Mercy. Mercy tests at 10m mimic Cosmos tests at 20m and so on. Then there's the extra 25 rounds Cosmos have before extended mags. 50 more bullets, lower shots to kill, and lower TTK. Win win win for the Cosmos in my book against the Mercy with only a .2-.3 second gap in infantry TTK behind Mattocks.


Oh and for those that wonder why I didn't post a video of Hacksaws as they are (maybe not anymore) most used NC MAX weapon. This is my reason, they are crap now.
New NC MAX Hacksaw tests - YouTube

[Sledgecrushr]

Definitely the NC MAX edge is gone. I think we all kinda knew this was going to happen. Right now the NC is kinda fucked when it comes to relative power compared to the other empires.

[Baneblade]

Back to the Light Assaults we go.

[Chewy]

:stoppost:


http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/cosmos-stealth-nerf-wtf.118110/

The Cosmos got a huge COF stealth nerf. Read about it in that link. This thread is no longer of value thanks to that. I have to make another video for the Blueshift seeing how that is really the VS MAXes most ranged weapon counter to what I read on forums. So until I get that done and redo the math for that weapon this there is no reason to post in this thread as I no longer have viable data for a VS MAX weapon.

Took a kick to the balls. Doesn't feel nice. Good note, so far it seems like the Mattock and Mercy videos and math may still be good. I might not have to redo them as well.

[Sledgecrushr]

You do good research Chewy. Thanks.

[Chewy]

You do good research Chewy. Thanks.

Still can't read basic weapon descriptions though. :doh:

I should have seen something was wrong if the Cosmos was the most ranged VS MAX weapon when it had the highest mag size.

[AThreatToYou]

I think the Blueshift would have the Cosmos' previous range and TTK now, with Cosmos having the higher mag size (basically worthless).