Influence Changes [0/0]

[KesTro]

What do you like about it and what do you hate about it? I like the standardized cap times however I hate the lack of needing to stay on a point to continue capping it.

Spawn camping was and always will be a problem, there's no getting around it with the way you spawn in Planetside. However now the only objective when you cap a base is to spawn camp, no need to hold what you've capped.

What have you guys noticed on this?

[KaskaMatej]

it makes it easier for small force to attack, (a squad) doesn't change anything for big force (a platoon)

[Ruffdog]

I quite like seeing pop % per hex as the pie chart and not surrounding territory held.

I think these cap times will need to increase when the lane system comes in.

Someone should have to stay I believe for the cap to go through. Or have a mechanic like the REK: PS1 got around this by having a hackable control center via a REK utility The software did its job after a short interaction (like comprimising a PS2 gen) and the soldier could stay or leave, but then it was open to resecure and a 15 minute hack could be rendered (and frequently was) neutralised at the last second.
I would be all warm and happy if this came back. Trade up offensive utilities for capture abilitiy. You need a cap guy in your squad or as a lone wolf you must carry a REK

[Blynd]

Id be very happy to see the rek brought back but you would have to make it so it couldn't e carried by everyone all the time. So you had to have dedicated hackers to hack terminals, doors, and control points.

[p0intman]

on its own it doesn't mean very much and encourages backhacking and ghost hacking. However, with the hex changes with the lattice implementation, it actually works fairly well. I think that it will mean people will actually have to learn to fight against other forces that are expecting them or are actually holding to some sort of strategy. i think that hack times need to be a little longer at least for main facilities (10 mins to 15 would be awesome) but it works otherwise.

i think that added to that, most facilities need to have gen rooms that are fully enclosed and can't be shot into from windows. likewise i think that gens need to be added that control the benefits flowing to/from each base, or have midpoint facilities work in such a way that similar tactics can be used with dropping a gen or two to sever a link, even if you cant hack the facility.

[Snydenthur]

I have noticed that the new system is made for ghost cappers. And it is the most boring thing there is. There needs to be something to make the cap go faster, since maybe 1 out of 1000 captures is when defenders actually try to get a base back after being locked to spawn room.

I'd even go for extremes. When the scu blows up, remove the shields and pain field from spawnroom and make the base get captured in 30s-1min. That gives defenders one more push to repair scu and if they fail, there's no 5min "let's do nothing" moment. The way it currently is, after scu blows up, defenders just farm the idiots that actually run to look at the spawn room and after the base is finally captured, they die. Why not make it easier for everyone?

[ringring]

You can't really have the influence system and have the lattice at the same time.

[Pella]

Much better for smaller squads. Dont have to sit on point.

[camycamera]

i like it, i was going to say that they should change it so the more people on the point, the less it takes to cap (no 6/6 limit as well), and that one person ghost capping a base should take like an hour, but then i realised my logic was flawed, in that sometimes large groups go out and ghost cap, so adding in what i just said would make their job easier and shorter....

so i approve. standardising cap times is a good change, and i like how they removed having to stand on the point to cap faster. although, they need to remove the 0/0 thing, it is pointless and makes it feel like a place holder...

[Redshift]

They just need to make the defenders recap timer faster than the attackers, so if you leave the point and it get flipped back it's a proper set back.

PS1 used to have it reset the timer if you lost it even for a second, much more tense

[Whiteagle]

Id be very happy to see the rek brought back but you would have to make it so it couldn't e carried by everyone all the time. So you had to have dedicated hackers to hack terminals, doors, and control points.
...So... you'd need an Infiltrator to Capture Points?

Eh, I like the sentiment, but it might piss off the casual crowd to require the "Sniper/Spy" class to flip bases...

...Anything we could do with Deployables?

I'm thinking perhaps a Device to replace the Recon Sensor that would activate after being set down for a period of time that would make the Control Point think someone from your Faction was standing there.

What do you guys think?

They just need to make the defenders recap timer faster than the attackers, so if you leave the point and it get flipped back it's a proper set back.

PS1 used to have it reset the timer if you lost it even for a second, much more tense
Personally I like the lack of Attackers bothering to hold points, if simply because their Camping the Spawn allows it to be retaken from another angle, but faster Re-secure Times would be appreciated.

Anything that rewards playing Smart over playing Fast is good in my book.

[MrMak]

Im not entrely sure i like it without the rushlanes/lattice/lattex. Sure it helps in smaller fights but it also helps ghost caps, which i hate with a passion.

[Ruffdog]

...So... you'd need an Infiltrator to Capture Points?

Eh, I like the sentiment, but it might piss off the casual crowd to require the "Sniper/Spy" class to flip bases...


I think any class should be able to capture but they'd have to bring a special utility in their loadout and so sacrifice medkit/c4/etc. To make this attractive, make cap initators get say 250-500xp

[Rivenshield]

They just need to make the defenders recap timer faster than the attackers, so if you leave the point and it get flipped back it's a proper set back.

PS1 used to have it reset the timer if you lost it even for a second, much more tense

Hear hear.

[Nur]

I like it , it also avoids people ghostcapping (because now is longer and boring)

I don't like the idea that 1 people can flip/unflip though.

But this system has changed the game a lot. We focus now more on battle not on capturing low defence bases or ghostcapping around heavy fights

[Canaris]

well the dev's found the quick way of moving some people on the point, while the rest camped the spawn rooms back to everyone camping the spawns rooms again.... good job

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-cLkABDQ715U/T52oFwagsvI/AAAAAAAAA3s/XseT-MyQAaE/s1600/thumbs_down_smiley2red.png

[Timealude]

I have noticed that the new system is made for ghost cappers. And it is the most boring thing there is. There needs to be something to make the cap go faster, since maybe 1 out of 1000 captures is when defenders actually try to get a base back after being locked to spawn room.

I'd even go for extremes. When the scu blows up, remove the shields and pain field from spawnroom and make the base get captured in 30s-1min. That gives defenders one more push to repair scu and if they fail, there's no 5min "let's do nothing" moment. The way it currently is, after scu blows up, defenders just farm the idiots that actually run to look at the spawn room and after the base is finally captured, they die. Why not make it easier for everyone?

the problem with the system before is that if you had a small force that was going around either counter back capping or playing offensively, the empire defending was at such a disadvantage because the cap times were so short they couldnt respond in time to even make an attempt at the base before it flipped.

[p0intman]

cap points need to be put indoors so that vehicles such as libs can't overwhelmingly decide a fight. thats infantry's job, as far as capping points goes. might i suggest putting them underground?

[Figment]

Want to force sit on point? Force there to be a chance of complete loss if you leave it alone.

For the record, people didn't sit on cap points but camped in the previous system anyway.

[p0intman]

Want to force sit on point? Force there to be a chance of complete loss if you leave it alone.

that is not the way to do it, goddamnit. the way points worked in ps1 is that they were in defensible locations where you could set up killboxes around them, and not literally sit on the point to cover more area. that worked PERFECTLY. What is so hard about putting them inside for a similar setup?

it worked because you could still defend it, but taking it back as a defender was a challenge, and still possible with the right amount of force. It also took TIME to resecure the point.

[Dougnifico]

cap points need to be put indoors so that vehicles such as libs can't overwhelmingly decide a fight. thats infantry's job, as far as capping points goes. might i suggest putting them underground?

How about instead adding entire underground, infantry only complexes under all the main facilities. Then they can have 3 or 5 points in an AMP station all taken by infantry.

[Snydenthur]

the problem with the system before is that if you had a small force that was going around either counter back capping or playing offensively, the empire defending was at such a disadvantage because the cap times were so short they couldnt respond in time to even make an attempt at the base before it flipped.

Not necessarily. I'd say it is a player issue. I know I won't ever go against ghost capping, since I want to play the actual game instead of trying to find few players from useless base. And I know I wouldn't even have any backup. Now that there is time to respond, nobody responds and nothing changed. Except the boring moments are more frequent.

[BlaxicanX]

Just spent 10 minutes re-capturing an amp station that was getting ghost-capped. Ironically, when I got to the point, no enemies were there, so I just flipped the point, and left. Ten minutes later we'd recapped the base without me doing a damn thing, basically.

So all-in-all, this change is kind of a mixed blessing. On the one hand, it's very easy for even a single person to just waltz into an enemy base and ghost-cap it, then waltz out. On the other hand, it's just as easy for the defenders to do the same thing to re-capture it. So on the bright side, no more instances of my outfit saying "Oh shit, someone's ghost-capping ____, well let's pull bravo squad out of this battle and send them to go re-cap it." Now that you don't need a 6/6 to expediate the cap, you can now just send a single dude or two to go re-cap it, and once it starts flipping they can rejoin the battle. That's nice.

[Figment]

that is not the way to do it, goddamnit. the way points worked in ps1 is that they were in defensible locations where you could set up killboxes around them, and not literally sit on the point to cover more area. that worked PERFECTLY. What is so hard about putting them inside for a similar setup?

Of course, but it still forced people to keep a good eye on it.

it worked because you could still defend it, but taking it back as a defender was a challenge, and still possible with the right amount of force. It also took TIME to resecure the point.

After which the resec was instant and total, unlike now.





For the record, I'm assuming those things you said to be common sense. ;)

[Maarvy]

The standardised times are boring as hell .

Shield camping every base for 10 mins is a joke , I havent captured a base since the last patch because its just not worth sitting there for 10 mins to get 500-1000 xp .

Basicly a piss poor meta game just got even worse , The latice system needs to come fast before were all bored to tears .

[Snydenthur]

Basicly a piss poor meta game just got even worse , The latice system needs to come fast before were all bored to tears .

Lattice system has the same boring moments. Or are you suggesting that people will suddenly think "Hey, it's lattice system! Let's get out of the spawn room and try to get this base back!"

[Qwan]

I like the new system, just because you changed the cap point to your color doesnt mean you can leave it, gotta defend it (PS1 style). Spawn camping is just part of the PS2 strategy, as well as PS1. There is no way to avoid it, I mean with larger bases the tunnel systems allows you to get out, but on smaller one's its just the nature of the beast. I mean who in there right mind would leave the spawn box uncovered while waiting for a hack to go threw, that is just suicide. I mean the only way I can think of solving the spawn camping scinerio is to take them out completly on smaller bases, leave the large one's as is. On the smaller outpost you can have becons that will stay in your factions favor till the base flips. So when defenders want to respawn they actually will drop in, instead of spawning at a box. This way they can drop in at different locations (and land on some vehicles as well :lol: ). I think this is the only way to stop the spawn box carnage. With guys landing in at different positions its more unpredictable.

[Figment]

@Qwan: it would suit modular buildings a little, but on the other hand, it would cause dispersion of the defenders and leave them with no front to work from or fall back to.

[Maarvy]

Lattice system has the same boring moments. Or are you suggesting that people will suddenly think "Hey, it's lattice system! Let's get out of the spawn room and try to get this base back!"

Well i was kinda hoping the latice system would bring back some kind of adjacency bonus or something to spped up the horendous timer we have now .

If it stays like this , I for 1 will just disregard base caps alltogether . If I want to do nothing I can just turn off my PC and save on some elecricity bill . The only differance bieng the screen is less colourfull , the entertainment value would be the same I.E. non existant .

[Maarvy]

The cap timer should be related to the number of troops you have in the base . Inside the spawn room should NOT be considered inside the base .

This way once ur pushed back in to the spawn room and you ony have shield derp heros left the base is quickly fucked .

I dont mind long cap times if shit is deffended , its when u sit for 10 mins with nothing but pheonix donkeys shooting out it becomes mind numbingly boring .

[Hmr85]

This change is meant for the upcoming lattice/rush lanes. They are just allowing people to get use to it before its implemented.

I am personally a big fan of this as it keeps me from having to constantly stand on point and allows me to actually go out and fight. :cheers:

[Crator]

Ghost capping happened before these changes as well, right? Perhaps they could make it so the influence on a capture point is in effect while the point flips. Meaning, the hack timer on the location would take longer to start if only one person is next to the point. If more people are next to the point then the capture point flips faster.

I wrote this in the 4.19.2013 thread the other day:

Not required to nurse a capture point to make hack go faster, this gives people a chance to spread out and find strategic positions to defend the capture points. Visual indicators on the map that show timer progression is excellent (better then PS1 cause you had to double click bases to see the timer). This allows teams to have time to make choices in what they are going to do. Do they have enough at the base being captured to defend it while the timer goes? No, then spread out and setup to defend the capture points. Yes, then setup a perimeter around the location. If there's enough people that already can handle that then move out to the next location to take. And of course it gives the other empire time to make a decision and react to an owned base being attacked (which now gives a cause to try and keep those bases if possible).

One thing they do need to do, remove the 0/0 count under the capture points. It's just confusing being there, it means nothing.

EDIT: Also, 3-ways on a single cont. pretty much complicate the matter of not being able to keep a front line and move it to lock the cont. Same thing as in PS1. 3-ways did happen in PS1 but were not as prevalent and there were ways to break them up. This should be resolved by adding more continents with an inter-cont lattice system and removing the 3-empire footholds on every cont...

[ThatGoatGuy]

I love it, absolutely love it. The only thing they need to do now though is remove the 0/0 point count and just have the Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, Delta points and the progress bar.

[p0intman]

How about instead adding entire underground, infantry only complexes under all the main facilities. Then they can have 3 or 5 points in an AMP station all taken by infantry.


... why subject any of the cap points to vehicular influence with their current power?

[Qwan]

@Qwan: it would suit modular buildings a little, but on the other hand, it would cause dispersion of the defenders and leave them with no front to work from or fall back to.

True it would cause dispersment, but think about it, squad leaders can lay down way points (not squad beacons) telling his squad to drop behind this building or on top of this one. I mean this to me seems the only way to stop spawn camping. If your spawn box is surrounded there really is no way out. The minute you break the shields, your splattered, no one falls back to a spawn box, most guys in the spawn box get as many kills as they can while there and then either re diploy or charge out in a blaze of glory. I think that by removing the spawn box and making a base beacon this would stop the camping and give the defenders a chance to fend off the enemy. In most scenerios my outfit regroups at a different base and comes back guns a blazing. In the base beacon scenerio we can designate a spot outside the killzone to set up an offence without going all the way back to another base and on esimir, and amerish that can be a pain. Im just saying its a idea, its better than just complaining about it and giving no in put.

[Figment]

I have most issues with the whole concept of disconnected modular design tbh.

[Phantomdestiny]

i can't wait to have 2-way fights on continents

[Whiteagle]

I have most issues with the whole concept of disconnected modular design tbh.
True enough, but if they keep using these scattered Prefab Shacks instead of actually bothering to BUILD Bases, Qwan's idea might be our last recourse.

We still have too many Outpost with Offence minded designs, where the layouts favor Attackers on the Push then Defenders trying to stop one.
If they don't adjust Base setup to where the Spawn is the literal Keep to the Castle then we might as well all be Attackers fighting over a big arena.

[Soothsayer]

I'd like to see spawn times correlate to capture progress (slower respawn at bases that are further along their cap.)

I also think capture progress should tick back to the defender much faster than it does for attackers. Attackers should have the option of going off point, but should be punished for losing the point.

[Climhazzard]

So all-in-all, this change is kind of a mixed blessing. On the one hand, it's very easy for even a single person to just waltz into an enemy base and ghost-cap it, then waltz out. On the other hand, it's just as easy for the defenders to do the same thing to re-capture it.

This isn't any different than the previous mechanic.

So on the bright side, no more instances of my outfit saying "Oh shit, someone's ghost-capping ____, well let's pull bravo squad out of this battle and send them to go re-cap it." Now that you don't need a 6/6 to expediate the cap, you can now just send a single dude or two to go re-cap it, and once it starts flipping they can rejoin the battle. That's nice.

You might want to reconsider those assumptions. The old mechanic didn't require 6 people; one person could flip the point and wander off, too. Also, just because one person can flip the point and no one needs to stand on it with the new mechanic, that doesn't mean there won't be anyone defending it. Nothing's changed.

The cap timer should be related to the number of troops you have in the base . Inside the spawn room should NOT be considered inside the base .

This way once ur pushed back in to the spawn room and you ony have shield derp heros left the base is quickly fucked .

I dont mind long cap times if shit is deffended , its when u sit for 10 mins with nothing but pheonix donkeys shooting out it becomes mind numbingly boring .

The entire point of the longer capture times is so that the defending faction has time to respond. If your suggestion is implemented, an enemy faction can exploit it by hitting an undefended facility, shortening the capture time significantly and giving the defending faction much less time to respond.

[BlaxicanX]

Not really, no. In the prior system one person "could" cap it, but the game actively encouraged groups to stick around to hurry the cap along. Now that there's a flat-rate cap, there is no inclination to send more than a person to camp around for twenty minutes. Your lulzy assumption that "no one will be defending it" is flat our wrong. During the two hours that I was on today, I counter ghost capped several bases by doing just that. Wandered on to a base that was ghost-capped, capped it, left the base and joined my outfit wherever they were at, 10 minutes later the base automatically flipped.

Things have certainly changed, that's just objective fact. How important people feel about those changes is something else.

[Blynd]

...So... you'd need an Infiltrator to Capture Points?

Eh, I like the sentiment, but it might piss off the casual crowd to require the "Sniper/Spy" class to flip bases...

...Anything we could do with Deployables?

I'm thinking perhaps a Device to replace the Recon Sensor that would activate after being set down for a period of time that would make the Control Point think someone from your Faction was standing there.

What do you guys think?


Personally I like the lack of Attackers bothering to hold points, if simply because their Camping the Spawn allows it to be retaken from another angle, but faster Re-secure Times would be appreciated.

Anything that rewards playing Smart over playing Fast is good in my book.

no not just infils but the rek would replace say an engineers tool or a medics tool but LA/HA cant do it it has to be one of those 3 classes and have a cert system for advanced hacking :D (kind of reminds me of something ......)

[ItZMuRdA]

I like everything about it except for the strategic tool I used it as to see if enemies were within a point's burn zone before I was there. For example, if a base said 2/6 and I was going to try to take it back, I had more or less an idea of what I was up against and how many people to look for in the immediate area.

You may argue that is an improvement, and perhaps it is, though it was definitely something I got used to using to my advantage.

[Crator]

I like everything about it except for the strategic tool I used it as to see if enemies were within a point's burn zone before I was there. For example, if a base said 2/6 and I was going to try to take it back, I had more or less an idea of what I was up against and how many people to look for in the immediate area.

You may argue that is an improvement, and perhaps it is, though it was definitely something I got used to using to my advantage.

A recon tool on an aircraft would be cool to have for this. So requires a player to detect concentration of enemy then report back to command leaders to appropriate proper forces to respond.

[Figment]

Scout radar? ;p

[Snydenthur]

Now I hate the timer. It isn't constantly counting down, but it randomly stops for a second or two. There was alert today and we were taking dahaka at the last moments. We had time to lose control point for about 30 seconds and still have time to take it before alert ended. We didn't have anyone trying to take it back and I was looking at the map to see the timer (I was bored again) and noticed those random stops. In the end, we captured dahaka few seconds after the alert ended. So, the cap timer stopped randomly for over 30 seconds during cap. I hope soe fixes this, since the cap timer can be a great tactical tool, but at the moment you can't trust it.

[Silent Thunder]

Now I hate the timer. It isn't constantly counting down, but it randomly stops for a second or two. There was alert today and we were taking dahaka at the last moments. We had time to lose control point for about 30 seconds and still have time to take it before alert ended. We didn't have anyone trying to take it back and I was looking at the map to see the timer (I was bored again) and noticed those random stops. In the end, we captured dahaka few seconds after the alert ended. So, the cap timer stopped randomly for over 30 seconds during cap. I hope soe fixes this, since the cap timer can be a great tactical tool, but at the moment you can't trust it.

The stops are ususally when the point is contested. When a base with a single point is in the process of being flipped, the clock no longer goes one way or the other.

[Lonehunter]

You can't really have the influence system and have the lattice at the same time.
YOu can for the big facilities. Each base will have at least 3 links to it. 1 Link can allow you to hack but getting all reduces the overall time

[Snydenthur]

The stops are ususally when the point is contested. When a base with a single point is in the process of being flipped, the clock no longer goes one way or the other.


No. There was maybe 10 enemies at the spawnroom, but nobody at the point. It is some sort of bug in the timer itself.