SCU Shield Change on PTS

[Hamma]

http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/scu-room-shields-adjustment.120344/

The generators that control the shields which protect the SCU room are now gone. We are trying out a new system where the shields will go down based on the percentage of capture. Currently, they will go down when the enemy capture bar is halfway full. If the defender retakes the point, they need to bring the capture status back below that percentage to restore the shields.

The idea behind this change is to stop attackers from disabling the spawn too early, which can cause the fight the end and in some cases never happen. This will give defenders time to recover or react to a facility that is under attack.

Known Issues:
There is no messaging of when the shields are disabled. We will be adding some VO audio to indicate when these shields go down in the near future.

Thoughts? Also - there will be a playtest today and this change is apparently live. :D

[AThreatToYou]

I don't like this. I also think we should have destructible spawn tubes and a contestable spawn room, but whatever.

[Stardouser]

Planetside is one big fight. Not too keen on setting minimum fight times for individual bases, that's CoD/BF, ie non-MMOFPS thinking.

I've said before, offense needs to be bumped up in this game so that we have a higher focus on vehicle convoys and sweeping offensives(and more emphasis on air interdiction as a result) instead of long sieges.

[ETD]

I think it's an interesting idea.

Gonna jump on the PTS now for the playtest. Let's see how well it works.

[Bravix]

Don't like it. If anything, make the SCU easier for the defenders to defend. Don't make it impossible to take down though.

[ringring]

So, no possibility of a tactical group knocking a base offline before the enemy can respond.

It sounds like it is a boost to zerg-play.

[basti]

Interresting.

Gonna make sure i give this thing a good look. ;)

[Boildown]

So, no possibility of a tactical group knocking a base offline before the enemy can respond.

It sounds like it is a boost to zerg-play.

Zerg play can be avoided, you don't have to run with the zerg. Zerg play can be defeated, set up a solid defense.

But ghost capping is a plague on the game that needs to be greatly diminished, and this looks like a good step in that direction.

[WSNeo]

Sounds interesting, though I'm not going to judge it before I've tried it. :D

Why not keep the SCU option there, but instead move the SCU inside/underneath the spawnroom, so at the halfway mark, the SCU is exposed, however the attackers have to push beyond the defender's spawnroom to get to the now unshielded SCU.

Anyways, see you guys ingame in 5min!

[ThatGoatGuy]

But ghost capping is a plague on the game that needs to be greatly diminished, and this looks like a good step in that direction.

Exactly what I was thinking about. This means that XP hungry people who aren't willing to play the game for the FPS part of it can no longer make bank of XP with absolutely no resistance.

PS: I've noticed a lot of things these guys have thrown in are prepping up lattice. Can't waaaiit

[ChipMHazard]

Well it's only the SCU shield gen, so they will still be able to take down say... The four other shield gens in the Amp Station. Plenty of xp to gain from that.

[ShadoViper]

Edit

Nevermind, I didn't read properly.
:/

I look forward to testin this!

[Netsurfer733]

If this has been a problem (which I trust them to know), then I have to say, for the greater good of the population at large, this is for the best. And I spent months co-leading the official Ghost Squad of my outfit.

Fights are better than no fights at all. I don't see how this would keep small-scale conflicts from happening, either...

[ringring]

Exactly what I was thinking about. This means that XP hungry people who aren't willing to play the game for the FPS part of it can no longer make bank of XP with absolutely no resistance.

PS: I've noticed a lot of things these guys have thrown in are prepping up lattice. Can't waaaiit

I have nothing against ghost capping personally. I think it's valid and should not be removed. I do have a problem about gaining the same XP for a ghost capture as you would for a full on battle.

But, of course the nature of ghost capping changes with the lattice anyway because an outpost captured is an outpost that provide additional links, now the is a strategic reason to ghost cap and also a strategic reason to maintaining your outposts enemy-free.

[ThatGoatGuy]

Well it's only the SCU shield gen, so they will still be able to take down say... The four other shield gens in the Amp Station. Plenty of xp to gain from that.

I understand that, but don't you get more XP from an SCU compromise/destruction than a normal gen? (No time to get in game to check)

[Soothsayer]

I'm totally okay with this, I think that spawning at facilities needs to be tied to capture progress somehow. I would do it differently, but it's a step in the right direction.

[moosepoop]

instead of all this overcomplicated rulesets, how about just introduce some doors?

[Baneblade]

I don't think the generator was the problem... I think the single solitary generator was the problem.

[EnderVS]

Ugh, why? Yes, lets remove more tactical objectives from this game dumbing down meta even more. This hurts smaller outfits. If we come in for a last second secure and neutralize enough points to prolong the fight that shield is essential to get online. Now it stays down leaving the SCU vulnerable the entire time until you get back to halfway? Who sits there thinking, "Lets remove more things that add even a tiny bit of depth to this game, yeah, that must be what they all want?"

[AThreatToYou]

Just sitting here, silently and reasonlessly advocating destructible spawn tubes and contestable spawn rooms.

[p0intman]

solved zero problems, created more problems.

What do they not get about the need for bases to be DEFENSIBLE so that spawns aren't camped without recourse? Do they just not give a shit? I feel like I've been banging my head against a brick wall and talking to a child who doesn't understand this concept of human behavior.

[Ghoest9]

This isnt the right solution.

They are trying to stop ghost caps from locking people out - which is good.

But when defenders are present the fights over those gens are some of the best fights -it would be a shame to lose that.


They should add the lattice first before they make any crazy changes like this.

[Ghoest9]

instead of all this overcomplicated rulesets, how about just introduce some doors?

Have you ever seen Idiocracy? You see in the future doors are too complicated for people to handle.

[Koadster]

I think its a good change, it will make some people butthurt like those 'spec op' guys, but they are more sad about missing out on easy exp then being navy seal wannabies. But as the dev said and what I said in another thread with beta scus. They can make fights not even happen, if a fight ensues now there will be actual fighting over the point in order to keep that scu shield up.

Ofcourse will the innate zergy nature of planetside2 we will have to wait and see How it plays on the focus tests. What sounds good on paper might not play out well... too the PS1 vets and spawn tubes.. isn't the scu pretty much the design off those tubes ? Tubes gone = no spawning, scu gone = no spawning ?

[Silent Thunder]

too the PS1 vets and spawn tubes.. isn't the scu pretty much the design off those tubes ? Tubes gone = no spawning, scu gone = no spawning ?

The diffrence there being the spawn area and the place to defend were one in the same. Naemly isntead of the defenders and attackers taking potshots at each other near the spawn room, Defenders never leaving, and attackers keeping their distance, the whole thing would end in one final push for the spawn room itself, while the defenders made a desperate last stand.

[SternLX]

If the Devs are dead set on doing this then I have Two suggestions.

1) An additional Spawn room is needed in each of the Large base types. Give the players an option to spawn into either. Also the 2nd Spawn room should be an interior room that has no exposure to Air or ground vehicles when you exit. Use the Small base spawn building without its roof structure.
One SCU controls both Spawn rooms.

2) Ditch the Tunnel push pads and use Teleporters that exit near the jump pads that lead out of the tunnels. Travel time to get back into the fight is too long. It needs to be shortened if defenders have any hope of retaking a Cap point.

BTW... Tech Plants and Amp Stations need to go back to having more than 1 Cap point like in Beta. I never saw the point in making Huge bases like those have 1 cap point were you left Bio domes with 3 or 4. Some consistency would be nice in that regard. It's HUGE BASE, it should have the same objectives as an Air Tower + Shield Gen & SCU destruction IMHO. More Objectives = better.

[Falcon_br]

My idea was to never allow to overload generators before the base had influence form nearby bases.
There is nothing worst to lose a base and when you are going to defende the bio lab behind it, there is no spawn point on that base, the SCU is gone long before the previous fight happened!
I also think my idea is better them the new one, because it is not uncommon now, since they increase the generator exp granted, to see people flying from base to base blowing down all generator they can find and getting a great amount of xp for that.

[SternLX]

My idea was to never allow to overload generators before the base had influence form nearby bases.
There is nothing worst to lose a base and when you are going to defende the bio lab behind it, there is no spawn point on that base, the SCU is gone long before the previous fight happened!
I also think my idea is better them the new one, because it is not uncommon now, since they increase the generator exp granted, to see people flying from base to base blowing down all generator they can find and getting a great amount of xp for that.

I like that idea also. Basically... if you can't flip the Cap point you shouldn't be able to Overload a gen.

[Bravix]

There wasn't anything wrong with the way Planetside did it (IMO). Take away exp from overloading gens and you won't have people farming them for certs. Make them a strategic target, not a cert resource.

[Whiteagle]

The diffrence there being the spawn area and the place to defend were one in the same. Naemly isntead of the defenders and attackers taking potshots at each other near the spawn room, Defenders never leaving, and attackers keeping their distance, the whole thing would end in one final push for the spawn room itself, while the defenders made a desperate last stand.
Yeah, this is kind of why I've been arguing to put Spawn rooms INSIDE the Major Facilities, then putting the SCU near those...

Anyways, got a little experience with the current set up, where the shield doesn't go down until you've halfway filled your Capture Bar...
...Yeah, considering there is less then two minutes on the Capture Timer at that point when the SCU itself takes around two and a half, right now it's more of a siege breaker then anything.
I had to stabilize something another Terran overloaded out of habit, so it's doubtful a Zerg Rush will even bother with it once they realise it isn't going to finish a one-sided fight any faster.

[AThreatToYou]

I really don't see why we don't have spawn tubes. The only issue is the spawn room location; it has to be moved inside the base or underground. That is probably what is stopping the devs from doing it.

Towers and outposts, too... but the outposts would need their spawns moved underground. It would be a really simple change that probably involves more work than I think...

yet I still believe that destructible spawn tubes and contestable spawn rooms are the way to go.

[Mustakrakish]

I'm not even remotely okay with this.

Tying the SCU shields to capture progress just shafts the defenders. The defenders will have to focus all their manpower on defending the SCU instead of trying to push out the attackers or take back the control points. Furthermore, even once the control points are retaken, the defenders will still have to hold them for X consecutive minutes to bring the shields back online, with the SCU exposed the whole time.

In short, with this change there will be no reason to show up at a facility once capture progress has broken the threshold.

[CrankyTRex]

Defensibility shouldn't be about timers. One of my biggest pet peeves is when a facility is clearly taken and everyone has to sit around en masse waiting for the timer to run out just to get the XP.

If they don't want ghost capping, then they have to either make it impossible to take something that isn't linked (which is pretty lame) or they'll have to set up some objectives that take a lot of time for an individual or smaller force to complete, thus giving the enemy some time to respond if they want (I find it very rare that anyone bothers.)

Though, like I said in another thread, I wonder if territory control should be an entirely new kind of system based around the position and number of actual boots on the ground, rather than points and bases and whatnot.

[JesNC]

I kinda see where this change is coming from. Currently, you have a hard time defending large facilities with only a few people, because you constantly have to shift your defense between CC and generator/SCU. This affect defense to a point where it's more viable for single squads to defend a tower base like the Bastion instead of the big 3.

This change should make it much easier to concentrate defense on the CC.

[Figment]

It's not going to have the intended effect. The lack of passive defense due to lack of base layout linearity (attackers still won't HAVE to move past defenders and choke points to reach their objectives so that defenders could defend multiple things at once) is and will be a bigger issue that overshadows any solution.

1. We regularly kept the Bio Lab gen and/or SCU up till 80-90% of the capture.
2. SCUs are not in any position you can defend. Since if you want to defend the CC, you often have to move hundreds of meters away from it.
3. In case of AMP stations, if they control the CC, they control the SCU and SCU gen anyway. This isn't going to change anything.
4. In case of Tech Plants, the SCU gen was in an impossible position to defend due to being a few hundred meters away from the spawns, despite of tunnels (which still suck).
5. 50% is completely arbitrary. It'll have a similar effect to the main base's outposts where you arbitrarily lose spawns half way through a cap without time to reach the CC.


If anything, defense logistics will suffer.

[Maidere]

...oh my fucking god... - YouTube

[Carbon Copied]

I get the point of wanting to test new mechanics; but this just feels like a cheap, easy and lacklustre change.

[Figment]

too the PS1 vets and spawn tubes.. isn't the scu pretty much the design off those tubes ? Tubes gone = no spawning, scu gone = no spawning ?

No it's not. Not at all the same thing.

The spawntubes and spawnpoints were the exact same location. Meaning that there's virtualy ALWAYS defenders around it, making it very hard to reach and take down. Futhermore, if you downed one tube, there were still two others and it took some firepower to down them all, while there was a painfield (which could be upgraded in two ways) aiding defenders in taking down enemies trying to take down the spawns.

An SCU in PS2 is for some incredibly stupid reason NEVER inside the spawnroom or at least directly adjecent to the spawnroom (even the Bio Lab doesn't count as there's a huge crossfire hall in between). In most other bases the SCU was in a completely separate building.

Which means that most of the time there are no defenders moving through the SCU (and certainly not the SCU gen) areas. Due to their isolated placement, often closer to the CC than to the spawns, the attacker also gets far easier logistics to control all objectives than in PS1, where all objectives were much closer to the spawns than to the outdoor area. In PS1, if you held the lobby and/or stairwell and backdoor, you defended ALL objectives at the same time because enemies had to move through that choke point. Defenders trying to get anywhere (for instance the vehicle pad), would always move through these three chokepoints. This meant the choke points automatically had likely defender presence.

In case of the SCU in a Tech Plant, you already have 4 chokepoints to control, then there's the CC and SCU gen, which have 6-8 choke points to control.

Meanwhile, defenders do not automatically move through this area or these chokepoints, because of the detached barracks and isolated, modular building design.

This means that defenders have to spread out over a huge area, weakening their defense everywhere and being incapable of a concentrated effort. They have to move from point to point constantly and still will fail to keep people out and away from objectives. That means that in the new system, the SCU will have to be left alone, A LOT and since the SCU gen will be down by default at some point, it will be a lot more vulnerable.

Furthermore, you can't make a spec ops push on the SCU gen anymore to get it back up, so you don't have to worry about the SCU while attacking the CC, instead you are going to have to concentrate on the CC and holding the CC, which means that while you're trying to hold the CC and are forced to stay there, the SCU is left wide open as long as you haven't got the timer back to 50%.




The spawns HAVE to move into the main building and the SCU will have to be moved right next to it, with the CC and gens closer to spawns than to external entry points. Yet for some reason they keep avoiding to do that. Why do you think defenders ALWAYS place an AMS inside the main building? Because THAT is where the best defensive logistics are.

[Whiteagle]

The spawns HAVE to move into the main building and the SCU will have to be moved right next to it, with the CC and gens closer to spawns than to external entry points. Yet for some reason they keep avoiding to do that. Why do you think defenders ALWAYS place an AMS inside the main building? Because THAT is where the best defensive logistics are.
Yeah, this is always flummoxed me about Planetside 2 Base Design, why DON'T the Major Facilities have integrated Spawns?

[ringring]

Yeah, this is always flummoxed me about Planetside 2 Base Design, why DON'T the Major Facilities have integrated Spawns?

There is only one possible reason. The DEVS want to spread the action around rather than focus it into limited areas and the only reason for this that I can thinkof is for the sack of performance.

Look back to the change in the Tech Plant several months ago.

At that time there were fierce and epic battles attacking and defending tech plants. People loved tham and RivalXfactor even produced a 'how to' on Youtube showing viable tactics.

However, there were severe issues with rendering within the main building. The devs moved the shields from inside to outside the main building and lo and behold the rendering issue disappeared, along with the epic battles.

[KodanBlack]

I don't like it. Part of the fun is fighting over killing or saving those generators.

[Lonehunter]

I'm really cautious of this change, gut reaction is I don't like it. To me it's fixing one problem by implementing another.

I understand the problem of a base being too quickly stripped of it's defenses too early in the cap.

But I don't understand the removal of tactical choices. We now have even less to do at a base. It's just spawn vs spawn with a cap point somewhere in between :/

I know this new method guarantees a base's resistance a guarantee'd chance to defend, to the point in the hack when the SCU blows.

It also guarantees to DOOM them when that does flip. Instead of giving the resistance the whole cap time to resecure now they have till halfway, then it gets considerably harder. Doesn't even matter how well they defend the SCU. Even if a good coordinated team is able to push and fight to one of these gens their effort is in vein because there is nothing they can do but push towards the zerg objective.

They just put in these cap timers to give defenders a fighting chance now they're negating that. Why not just lower the overall cap times and make the base flip to the capturers?

In my opinion you should leave the generator mechanics as is, but they can't be attacked till a hack is halfway progressed. It gives defenders that first chance, and gives both sides an opportunity to strategize and utilize skill/effort to retake or defend it.

[Falcon_br]

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/885232416204336151/EF519187F51EDF95BB80CE1A9272104F370C5A44/

It is already out of control, today I meet a NC outfit that the only thing they want to do in the game is blowing up enemy generator.
They just blew up all generators on Amerish today, me and my friends were defending the generators at Kawhtee amp station, far inside TR territory and the keep blowing those generator!
It must become official, if you can´t take the base you can´t overload the generator!

[Figment]

That's what you get for rewarding experience for overloading them, instead of tieing a tactical advantage to it.

[Carbon Copied]

The method and generator mechanic has never been the problem; it's always been the location and wider leaky base that causes the issues. This doesn't change spawn camping or any other issues that the base designs/building locales create. I'm just perplexed; redesign the bases and the current mechanics (albeit limited on doing) can stop as they are - seriously it continuously feels with that PS2 as a game takes one step forward and then several back.

Note: Not to be read as a cheap shot at the devs or anyone implementing the changes; but more so as a general feeling.

[Rbstr]

No one will ever be able to take a bio lab.

[Fenrys]

don't you get more XP from an SCU compromise/destruction than a normal gen?

No, all objectives that you compromise give equal rewards.

250 for the compromise
500 more if/when it explodes

[Qwan]

I like the new system, all we need now is a orbital strike to clear out the court yards of large bases, and PS2 will be coming along just fine. :doh:

[ringring]

No one will ever be able to take a bio lab.

I'd forgotten about the Boi Lab. This is the base with the best fights .... and it centres around the fight over the shield gen.

[Shogun]

is it too late to completely scrap and redesign the bases?

the fights in ps1 were great! and i would prefer ps1 style bases and mechanics all the way!

the main features that made ps1 base-fights work and that are totally missing in ps2:

Bases had a ringwall with only 3 entrances (2 gates to courtyard, 1 backdoor to interior) -> easy to coordinate a defence until hotdrops or maxcrushes break the lines.

Bases had one(!) mainbuilding with all the tactical stuff inside. so no vehicle spawncamping but several methods to turn the tide other than just sending in wave after wave of brave men. (hacking terminals/radar/doors, blowing and holding down the generator, blowing the spawntubes, drain energy,etc.)

the fights had only one little flaw: often after spawns were down, the defenders left and the attackers had to wait at this base for 15 minutes until it would flip and give the xp.

so how can we make planetside 2 as fun as ps1 was, and polish it a little more to get rid of the unnecessary congoline time?

scrap the open base design, reintroduce doors, put spawnrooms where they belong - at the most secure place in the base and make the tubes themself destroyable instead of putting a scu somewhere else, where freshly spawned soldiers cannot defend it.

the locations of the spawnrooms are the biggest mistake in ps2´s design. the camping starts too early and the victims are restricted to a very small room with no chance to escape. camping happened in ps1 as well, but you needed a zerg to completely camp a spawnroom and the victims had the chance to fight back for some time until the spawnroom was flooded with enemies because the camping started at a big area and the attackers had to close the circle slowly and step by step . in ps2 you only need 2 tanks or one lib to completely lockdown a spawnroom.

the hack and hold mechanic was also a lot better than the bf capture mechanic! just standing near a capture point is stupid. having to hack a console while your team has to keep your 6 was far more thrilling!
like i said, the only flaw was the boring 15 min timer that forced you to stay at the base even when all enemies went away.
so please reintroduce the hack and hold routine, just change the timer thing. or keep the timers as they were, just change how xp is given, to allow the victorious attackers to move along while the timer is still ticking.

[Fenrys]

Get out of my head Shogun! I've been saying since the Tech Test that bases need to be demolished and re-built from scratch.

It really is poor design when the best way to capture any outpost or facility is to camp the spawnroom 1st, then go after any objectives once there are no more enemies outside the spawn room.

All the objectives within a base are 'cute' busywork diversions. You can take any point and blow any gen at your leisure after getting the spawn-camp lock-down in place.

[Shogun]

i like sucking on your mind!
so juicy!

but what you say is totally right. it is one of the main reasons i am not playing ps2 too often. the other reasons are the missing support playstyles (no real engineer, no real cloaker).
when i started a ps1 session, i could literally play it for up to 24 hours without losing interest or fun. ps2 can´t hold me for more than 2 hours.
that´s very sad, because i bought a high end rig only for this game and now i don´t even use it very much. if ps1 was still populated, i would prefer this game over ps2 a lot.

[wasdie]

That's a good idea, but bases need more than just one area to focus on. If they are removing the SCU shield gen they need to add something to replace it.

I like the fact you cannot easily just end a defense, but I would like something for small, coordinated groups to focus on that isn't just a shield gen.

How about a hackable server for turret control?

The problem with pure Planetside 1 base design is that those bases were designed for a maximum of 400 players per cont. Now you can have 650 per side. It's a completely different animal now. PS1 bases would be impossible to capture in PS2.

I would love more areas for dedicated infantry fighting like basements and whatnot, but they cannot go back to the chokepoint laden PS1 base design. It wouldn't work. They know that. This is why they are redoing a lot of the bases on Indar to make them more defendable without making them complete nightmares to attack.

The bases on Esamir and Amerish are much better, though even those could use improvements.

[Shogun]

The problem with pure Planetside 1 base design is that those bases were designed for a maximum of 400 players per cont. Now you can have 650 per side. It's a completely different animal now. PS1 bases would be impossible to capture in PS2.



that´s a point i would like to see proven on testserver.

if the slightly higher number of players really proves as a problem, add another gate or backdoor, or widen up the chokepoints a little.

but the actual designs have proven to deliver far less fun than the old designs did.

we know that there were ps1 style bases at some point during developement of ps2 (when it was still called ps next). so i wonder if it is possible to drop one of those old style bases on one of the conts on testserver. then call out a playtest and trigger an alert that demands to take this particular base and collect feedback.

if feedback is positive, replace some or most of the ps2 bases and test again, maybe in conjunction with some alternative capturemechanics. if feedback is still positive, go to liveserver.

[ItZMuRdA]

Really love this change personally. I've been preaching to remove the SCU altogether for awhile -- I hate seeing fights end so quickly, especially when the offense still has to sit around for 8 minutes to cap the base.

Some may say it should just be over with sooner, but I don't think that's the best model either. I think this is one of the first steps in a better design, and it may require more changes to really work at its fullest potential, but I like it a lot better than the way things work currently on live. I'm a firm believer in battles being able to rage on until the moment the base turns -- not in favor of spawn camping, but not in favor of spawn destroying instantly and not fighting whatsoever either.

[wasdie]

that´s a point i would like to see proven on testserver.

if the slightly higher number of players really proves as a problem, add another gate or backdoor, or widen up the chokepoints a little.

but the actual designs have proven to deliver far less fun than the old designs did.

we know that there were ps1 style bases at some point during developement of ps2 (when it was still called ps next). so i wonder if it is possible to drop one of those old style bases on one of the conts on testserver. then call out a playtest and trigger an alert that demands to take this particular base and collect feedback.

if feedback is positive, replace some or most of the ps2 bases and test again, maybe in conjunction with some alternative capturemechanics. if feedback is still positive, go to liveserver.
They won't just plop those old base designing in the game (for a lot of tech reasons). They also cannot just whip up new bases and throw them on the server for testing.

What they are doing is fine. They are adding a lot of logical additions to the bases without ruining them. They are taking baby steps instead of potentially wasting several months of precious dev time for something that could just blow up in their faces.

I would rather they just keep adding stuff to the current bases and building better continents than scrapping old stuff and starting from scratch.

I personally don't mind the bases in PS2 overall. There are some, mostly on Indar, which need work but they've been improving since the game has launched. The only issue I have right now is how they are actually removing small-scale objectives and focusing more on pure zerging. That's why I would love to see other objectives in taking a base. Right now zerging a few gens isn't enough.

[Shogun]

I personally don't mind the bases in PS2 overall. There are some, mostly on Indar, which need work but they've been improving since the game has launched. The only issue I have right now is how they are actually removing small-scale objectives and focusing more on pure zerging. That's why I would love to see other objectives in taking a base. Right now zerging a few gens isn't enough.

the bases are improving since launch, that´s right. but they are still far from being as good fights as the old bases were.
i would really like to see one old style base on testserver to check if it doesn´t instantly increase battlefun way over the new bases.

i am not saying i want every base to be scrapped. but if old bases work and generate better gameplay, there should really be some on every cont.
why scrap even more dev time while trying to make the new designs better, when the old design was almost flawless?

the only base i consider fun to fight at is the biolab. and that´s because it has some traditional chokepoints that can be defended. those are more chokepoints than ps1 bases had, but the concept is the same! vehicles are kept outside, spawnpoints are safe in the middle of the building, several gates need to be defended.

[wasdie]

the bases are improving since launch, that´s right. but they are still far from being as good fights as the old bases were.
i would really like to see one old style base on testserver to check if it doesn´t instantly increase battlefun way over the new bases.

i am not saying i want every base to be scrapped. but if old bases work and generate better gameplay, there should really be some on every cont.
why scrap even more dev time while trying to make the new designs better, when the old design was almost flawless?

the only base i consider fun to fight at is the biolab. and that´s because it has some traditional chokepoints that can be defended. those are more chokepoints than ps1 bases had, but the concept is the same! vehicles are kept outside, spawnpoints are safe in the middle of the building, several gates need to be defended.

The old design wasn't flawless though. In your opinion it may have been but they really weren't. Not everybody enjoyed those prolonged base fights and the incredible amount of spam down every hallway.

They were better in a few ways and worse in a few others.

Biolabs are my least favorite to fight because it doesn't feel like a real fight, just a zerg grind. It's just a way to pad stats. Too many players, too many chokepoints, too much spam. I much prefer more active defenses of well made amp stations and tech plants. These have gotten better in time and with the lattice system I feel the bases become even more logical to defend as the enemy comes from more predictable routes.

The battle flow changes really improved every aspect of the game in my opinion. I feel like I'm actually contributing to a larger fight, rather than just zerging along and killing everything that gets in my way until we overrun a control point.

Adding more objectives in a base would be even better. Reasons to hold sections of a base that have a positive effect on your faction's ability to fight in the region would make every player's impact on the battlefield way more profound than it is now.

Really the only thing the biolab gets right is it is the only base with consistent flow. Each biolab is roughly the same thus easy to defend. Tech plants have improved greatly with the addition of shield generators, but the layouts are still not the greatest. Amp stations are just poor because there are too many ways to get into the shield rooms. They aren't really dependable against a zerg given their position.

Of course with amp stations and tech plants the layouts change a bit more. Each is a bit more or less defendable depending on a number of factors. I like Tawrich Tech plant because the geometry funnels vehicles well and there are logical areas you want to control to push in. I hate Zurvan amp station because it's the exact opposite of Tawrich in that you can attack from any angle.

[Rahabib]

My idea was to never allow to overload generators before the base had influence form nearby bases.
There is nothing worst to lose a base and when you are going to defende the bio lab behind it, there is no spawn point on that base, the SCU is gone long before the previous fight happened!
I also think my idea is better them the new one, because it is not uncommon now, since they increase the generator exp granted, to see people flying from base to base blowing down all generator they can find and getting a great amount of xp for that.

I think this could work. If stations "linked" they could just have doors that don't go down until the previous linking station(s) is/are captured first. I didnt play PS1 but this is kinda how it worked in Unreal Tournament.

[wasdie]

I think this could work. If stations "linked" they could just have doors that don't go down until the previous linking station(s) is/are captured first. I didnt play PS1 but this is kinda how it worked in Unreal Tournament.

Actually they've said that they are working on the tech to prevent a faction from overloading the generators on a disconnected hex. You have to have a hex connected to be able to attack the enemy. I also believe you need to have full control of your control point before you can attack an enemy from that hex.

So if you're on the defense, you cannot just counter attack mid-fight and start flipping their adjacent hex. You have to drive them off of your hex fully first.

Better flow overall.

[Figment]

Considering I havn't seen fights where there are 650 - 650 - 650 fighting over the same base...


Instead, I've not seen the size of fights we had in ps1. I've just seen groups of zerg move from point to point using nearest base and pretty borders principles.

Let us first see if the bigger battles will occur in the new system.

Besides, I don't think the smaller bases were designed for anything over 8 vs 8. There simply isn't room for defenders in most of the spawn boxes.

[Greenthy]

is it too late to completely scrap and redesign the bases?

the fights in ps1 were great! and i would prefer ps1 style bases and mechanics all the way!

the main features that made ps1 base-fights work and that are totally missing in ps2:

Bases had a ringwall with only 3 entrances (2 gates to courtyard, 1 backdoor to interior) -> easy to coordinate a defence until hotdrops or maxcrushes break the lines.

Bases had one(!) mainbuilding with all the tactical stuff inside. so no vehicle spawncamping but several methods to turn the tide other than just sending in wave after wave of brave men. (hacking terminals/radar/doors, blowing and holding down the generator, blowing the spawntubes, drain energy,etc.)

the fights had only one little flaw: often after spawns were down, the defenders left and the attackers had to wait at this base for 15 minutes until it would flip and give the xp.

so how can we make planetside 2 as fun as ps1 was, and polish it a little more to get rid of the unnecessary congoline time?

scrap the open base design, reintroduce doors, put spawnrooms where they belong - at the most secure place in the base and make the tubes themself destroyable instead of putting a scu somewhere else, where freshly spawned soldiers cannot defend it.

the locations of the spawnrooms are the biggest mistake in ps2´s design. the camping starts too early and the victims are restricted to a very small room with no chance to escape. camping happened in ps1 as well, but you needed a zerg to completely camp a spawnroom and the victims had the chance to fight back for some time until the spawnroom was flooded with enemies because the camping started at a big area and the attackers had to close the circle slowly and step by step . in ps2 you only need 2 tanks or one lib to completely lockdown a spawnroom.

the hack and hold mechanic was also a lot better than the bf capture mechanic! just standing near a capture point is stupid. having to hack a console while your team has to keep your 6 was far more thrilling!
like i said, the only flaw was the boring 15 min timer that forced you to stay at the base even when all enemies went away.
so please reintroduce the hack and hold routine, just change the timer thing. or keep the timers as they were, just change how xp is given, to allow the victorious attackers to move along while the timer is still ticking.
²²²²²

This plus add the addition of number selecting loadouts (numpad) at a terminal would make even spawn camping and breaking exciting :D

I basicly miss gal dropping a base, getting in there with effort and having a defendable position once inside.

[Rahabib]

I would love to see some variety of game play as well. If you have doors - make it so you need C4 to blow them open. SCUs need to be hacked by infiltrators, Engineers can construct or squad leaders can call down disrupters to make hacking take longer, ... that kind of thing.

This way an infiltrator cant take down an SCU by himself, he needs someone with C4 to open the door. This all adds a layer of strategy and team work, makes the game more fun, and increases defensibility (slightly).

[Rahabib]

Actually they've said that they are working on the tech to prevent a faction from overloading the generators on a disconnected hex. You have to have a hex connected to be able to attack the enemy. I also believe you need to have full control of your control point before you can attack an enemy from that hex.

So if you're on the defense, you cannot just counter attack mid-fight and start flipping their adjacent hex. You have to drive them off of your hex fully first.

Better flow overall.

Thats good. I hope they do this.

[Kail]

Update via tweets today:

http://twitter.com/mhigby/status/331829234874085376

and more interesting:

http://twitter.com/mhigby/status/331856391419596801

So not only will blowing the SCU disable spawning, it will also stop The Alamo now too

[GeoGnome]

I'm going to have to give this a look before rendering a verdict.

I still think that they should put the generators back in, so that you have to take out a generator in order to down the SCU Shield (Honestly can't recall if they put that back in yet or not).

I think this is good though. You loose your generator or 50% of the base cap, you loose your SCU, you have now lost the ability to spawn in, And your SCU room's defenses can now be used by the attackers.

To the people saying that this is a step away from contested spawn rooms, I think your wrong. This is most assuredly a step in that direction. Now, Spawns in facilities are convertable.

It adds in an extra step in there for defenders, and despite what some people are saying about offense being secondary to defense, I really just don't see that at all. Offensive has so many more tools than defense, since defenses are themselves fixed in place and predictable, all offense can simply Sidestep defense, just not that hard.

[ringring]

There wasn't anything wrong with the way Planetside did it (IMO). Take away exp from overloading gens and you won't have people farming them for certs. Make them a strategic target, not a cert resource.

Exactly.

At present the fights at bases are poor, apart from Bio Lab. I see this change as not improving the fight at AMPS and TECHS but making them worse at Bio Labs.