Default arsenal should contain a shotgun/SMG

[Rolfski]

For two reasons:

No matter the changes, this game is still Shotgunside 2 (http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?t=53801), especially in towers.
The SMG has given the infiltrator a totally new role, making it one of the best, if not the best, CQB class now.


This puts new players or players not willing to spend SC or the very high amount of 1000 certs on these guns at an unfair disadvantage, which should be compensated with the default arsenal.

This is especially the case for the SMG as it is pretty much the only option to go with the infiltrator if you want to "infiltrate" up close.
Shotguns take a bit more skill to be a viable solution. Still, I'm a strong opponent of insta-kill weapons, no matter their disadvantages and the skill it takes. The (pump-action) shotguns got down-voted on the road map for a reason. SOE not listening to the community and spending so much time on releasing a complete arsenal of them was one of the worst design decisions so far imo. However, now the reality is there and we've got to live with them, it's only fair to give default classes access to them as well.

Proposed solution:

Make one of the SMG's and shotguns available as default.
Refund certs/SC people have spend on acquiring these particular guns.

[AThreatToYou]

Introduce a new NS SMG and offer it at a reduced cert cost (100-250)
Introduce a new NS Shotgun and offer it at a reduced cert cost


or

Introduce NS Punisher and offer it at a reduced cert cost (100)(or free) with cheaper attachments (including shotgun attachment)



Problem pretty much solved, no difficult stomaching of revenue loss (refunds).
I do however think that new players should have access to these weapon types.
If we're going with empire-specific weaponry, differentiate them:
- TR receive SMG (oh wait, repeater?)
- NC receive shotgun (oh wait, NC MAX?)
- VS receive a weapon that can switch fire modes between long and short/SMG and shotty (with tradeoffs)(do not have)(charge up mode being the short-range entirely possible for new beamer)

[phungus]

Shotguns are so stupid in their current implementation. Shotguns and MAXes are all there is in infantry fighting now, so glad I can use an ESF and ignore the cooky cutter shotgun loadout that defines PS2 infantry play. I can't wait to hear the MLG recaps: the comments about how everyone needs to use shotguns and MAX suits will be priceless.

Serious question? How can you guys play infantry for any amount of time? Do you all just run around with OP shotguns? I can do it for maybe 10 minutes before reaching my breaking point, having half my enemies get a weapon that can instagib me at medium and closer ranges without needing to be aimed is just asinine.

This game has one of the worst weapon balances in infantry I have ever seen. It's just pump action and auto shotties and no other viable weapons... even doom2 was better. The only reason to play is for the ESF.

[Snydenthur]

As long as they give pump-actions. I don't want to see a lot of semi auto shotguns running around, that would be hard. Pump actions for more people just makes the game a lot easier.

@phungus

I don't have any problems. I love being infantry. Pump actions are very overrated and over exaggerated weapons. People are just too stuck on the chance to ohk, but the truth is, that doesn't happen very often. I don't have any problems with handling them with carbine. I die to them usually 0-5 times out of 100. And I do fight indoors and at biolabs very often.

Semi auto and auto shotguns are on the borderline of being op though. They are not, but very close.

[Rolfski]

Introduce a new NS SMG and offer it at a reduced cert cost (100-250)
Introduce a new NS Shotgun and offer it at a reduced cert cost


or

Introduce NS Punisher and offer it at a reduced cert cost (100)(or free) with cheaper attachments (including shotgun attachment)



Problem pretty much solved, no difficult stomaching of revenue loss (refunds).
I do however think that new players should have access to these weapon types.
If we're going with empire-specific weaponry, differentiate them:
- TR receive SMG (oh wait, repeater?)
- NC receive shotgun (oh wait, NC MAX?)
- VS receive a weapon that can switch fire modes between long and short/SMG and shotty (with tradeoffs)(do not have)(charge up mode being the short-range entirely possible for new beamer)

I've thought of the solutions you're proposing here but came to the conclusion that these weapons should really be free and part of the default arsenal. Therefore giving away a current weapon is probably the least hassle for SOE to execute.

Second best solution would be to make the NS variants of these weapons part of the standard arsenal. People who bought SMG's/shotguns because free versions where not available back then would still be complaining though and demand a refund. So that's why I think my solution will prevent customer dissatisfaction.

[Galron]

No. There are too many in game as it is.

[AThreatToYou]

Shotguns are so stupid in their current implementation. Shotguns and MAXes are all there is in infantry fighting now, so glad I can use an ESF and ignore the cooky cutter shotgun loadout that defines PS2 infantry play. I can't wait to hear the MLG recaps: the comments about how everyone needs to use shotguns and MAX suits will be priceless.

Serious question? How can you guys play infantry for any amount of time? Do you all just run around with OP shotguns? I can do it for maybe 10 minutes before reaching my breaking point, having half my enemies get a weapon that can instagib me at medium and closer ranges without needing to be aimed is just asinine.

This game has one of the worst weapon balances in infantry I have ever seen. It's just pump action and auto shotties and no other viable weapons... even doom2 was better. The only reason to play is for the ESF.

Shotguns and MAX suits are not all there is to infantry combat right now, wtf are you smoking? I may own a sweeper but I hardly ever use it. Less than once a day.

Even inside a biolab, there's more to use than shotguns & MAX units...

[Falcon_br]

Already create a topic about the matter, as I said, there is no point of having 6 shotguns, all costing 700 sc / 1.000 certs:

http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?t=54755

Also, we got 2 smgs, and one of them is useless for the TR, with more 2 on the game they can scale the prices of it.

[Rolfski]

No. There are too many in game as it is. Completely agree. They're in the wrong hands though, paying people only. Which is why I created this topic.

[Dragonskin]

Also, we got 2 smgs, and one of them is useless for the TR, with more 2 on the game they can scale the prices of it.

One of them is useless for each faction. The one that came out first. So got burned on that one. The Armistice, Eridani and Cyclone are all useless to compared to their extended mag counter parts which are the Hailstorm, Sirius and Blitz.

[Lonehunter]

It is a good point though. With the addition of SMGs and Shotguns CQC is much different then release, it would only make sense making one easily available, not free, but like 100 certs :/

[Whiteagle]

Personally I wouldn't mind the Infiltrator getting a Default SMG instead of a Sniper Rifle...

[AThreatToYou]

One of them is useless for each faction. The one that came out first. So got burned on that one. The Armistice, Eridani and Cyclone are all useless to compared to their extended mag counter parts which are the Hailstorm, Sirius and Blitz.

No? I tried the Blitz, useless past about ~7m. Cyclone has some range on it.

Personally I wouldn't mind the Infiltrator getting a Default SMG instead of a Sniper Rifle...

Do that.

[Falcon_br]

No? I tried the Blitz, useless past about ~7m. Cyclone has some range on it.



Do that.

Range for a smg is kind of pointless, but there I won't argue because there is some use for an infiltrator, other classes can easily pick better weapons for that.
But the hailstorm got all status better them the first one, only bullet velocity is better, what is pointless for a smg. We asked for a faster reload, the hailstorm still reload faster.

[AThreatToYou]

Range for a smg is kind of pointless, but there I won't argue because there is some use for an infiltrator, other classes can easily pick better weapons for that.
But the hailstorm got all status better them the first one, only bullet velocity is better, what is pointless for a smg. We asked for a faster reload, the hailstorm still reload faster.

Well, I don't know exactly about the TR ones, but I have pretty much stopped seeing the non-drum mag TR SMG. The NC SMGs are differentiated by ROF, range, clip size, reload speed and damage per bullet. The Cyclone is honestly a feasible mid-range weapon if a forward grip is applied, seeing as the Cyclone does as much max dmg/shot as the Gauss Rifle (and fires faster, and reloads faster).

(its minimum damage is a lot lower though, plus with soft-point ammo... but hey, then min-range is increased by.. what, 5-10m? worth it)

And for VS, I also see nothing but the Sirius. Sad; the Eridani is not much worse than the pulsar. Screw low bullet velocity; it has no drop anyway. In any case, I'd buff the Eridani and Cyclone's projectile velocity back up to 375.
The Armistice and Hailstorm are weird though. It's obvious that the Armistice is underpowered.

[Micro]

I'm all good with this, as long as VS don't get charge up shit.

[TheSaltySeagull]

In the interest of keeping newer players competitive with long term players I have to agree. I have two characters I play. My TR main with tons of bought shit and my VS alt with all default stuff. For the most part the VS character performs well enough that I do not feel restricted or underpowered compared to my TR toon except when it comes to CQC. You are basically required at this point to either have a shotgun of some type, an SMG, or sit in a dual AI max in order to keep competitive in CQC now. In some of the more open bases you can kinda get by without those but in a tower or a biolab it is essential to have one of the above.

The need to make a default SMG/Shotgun or make one available for very cheap like sub 500 certs. Other wise newer players are just fodder in close range fights for players who paid or have been playing longer.

[Whiteagle]

No? I tried the Blitz, useless past about ~7m. Cyclone has some range on it.
Yeah, the first batch of SMGs are apparently the faster firing, longer ranged Weapons...

Well, I don't know exactly about the TR ones, but I have pretty much stopped seeing the non-drum mag TR SMG.

...

It's obvious that the Armistice is underpowered.
That'd be the Armistice...

It's got a slightly faster reload, but with only 30 rounds compaired to the Hailstorm's 60 it's just no contest...

In the interest of keeping newer players competitive with long term players I have to agree. I have two characters I play. My TR main with tons of bought shit and my VS alt with all default stuff. For the most part the VS character performs well enough that I do not feel restricted or underpowered compared to my TR toon except when it comes to CQC. You are basically required at this point to either have a shotgun of some type, an SMG, or sit in a dual AI max in order to keep competitive in CQC now. In some of the more open bases you can kinda get by without those but in a tower or a biolab it is essential to have one of the above.

The need to make a default SMG/Shotgun or make one available for very cheap like sub 500 certs. Other wise newer players are just fodder in close range fights for players who paid or have been playing longer.
True enough...
Probably doesn't help that Pump-shotguns are One-hit Kills and have better DPS then even the Auto-versions.

[Nur]

No the Armistice is not underpowered.

[Falcon_br]

No the Armistice is not underpowered.

Dude, check In game weapon data.

The armistice only got improved bullet speed and a very small increase RoF!
The HailStorm reloads faster, have more bullets and can use adv laser sights!

[Gatekeeper]

Not sure of the best way to achieve it, but I definitely agree that there should be a shotgun as part of the default weapon selection. The way the game works currently, they're a key part of basic play - not some kind of optional unlock.

Personally I'd favour giving the Engineer a shotgun instead of a carbine as their basic weapon (and taking shotguns away from the other classes), but I don't imagine that'd be a popular change ;)

[PredatorFour]

One of them is useless for each faction. The one that came out first. So got burned on that one. The Armistice, Eridani and Cyclone are all useless to compared to their extended mag counter parts which are the Hailstorm, Sirius and Blitz.

The eirdani is better than the sirius, packs more of a punch. The TTK is ridiculous on the eridani but the sirius takes longer (granted it has more in a clip). I disagree with your comments but as for the topic i don't think there should be common pool variants of these weapons. It doesn't take long to amass 1000 certs for a gun does it ?

[ChipMHazard]

Completely agree. They're in the wrong hands though, paying people only. Which is why I created this topic.

Agreed. At least give "normal" players the ability to fight back on equal terms. Heck it might even help show the issues with the base design and the effectiveness of the shotguns.

[Shuuda]

Sorry, but I really have to question this fallacy some people seem to be spreading; this notion that more people are using shotguns because there are five of them.

I seriously doubt the fact that there are five shotguns is the reason more people are using them. It just means that people who use shotguns have five different options to choose from. If there were only two shotguns in the game that would not mean that the number of people using them would be less than half than of what is currently is. All it would mean is that people who use shotguns would only have two to choose from.

The reason shotguns are popular (though they don't actually seem as omnipresent as the melodramatic people in this thread are making out on Miller at least) is not because there are five of them, but because they became the flavour of the month when people started bellowing about how OP they were. People will always gravitate to whatever they think will get them the most kills, regardless of how many different options there are.

To be honest, I hardly see the point in trying to discuss weapon balance with people who insist on throwing overly dramatic hyperbole at everything. I suppose that's MMO communities for you.

[Whiteagle]

The reason shotguns are popular (though they don't actually seem as omnipresent as the melodramatic people in this thread are making out on Miller at least) is not because there are five of them, but because they became the flavour of the month when people started bellowing about how OP they were. People will always gravitate to whatever they think will get them the most kills, regardless of how many different options there are.
Well the biggest problem is the Pump Actions and their One-hit Kill...
This wouldn't be so bad if this power came at the cost of Re-fire rate, but they are nearly as fast as my FULL AUTO Nighthawk!
So not only can they take you out on the FIRST shot, but even if they screw up nailing your head they can quickly polish you off with a second round.

It's outright crazy man...

[ChipMHazard]

Sorry, but I really have to question this fallacy some people seem to be spreading; this notion that more people are using shotguns because there are five of them.

I seriously doubt the fact that there are five shotguns is the reason more people are using them. It just means that people who use shotguns have five different options to choose from. If there were only two shotguns in the game that would not mean that the number of people using them would be less than half than of what is currently is. All it would mean is that people who use shotguns would only have two to choose from.

The reason shotguns are popular (though they don't actually seem as omnipresent as the melodramatic people in this thread are making out on Miller at least) is not because there are five of them, but because they became the flavour of the month when people started bellowing about how OP they were. People will always gravitate to whatever they think will get them the most kills, regardless of how many different options there are.

To be honest, I hardly see the point in trying to discuss weapon balance with people who insist on throwing overly dramatic hyperbole at everything. I suppose that's MMO communities for you.

Did I miss something, who made that claim?

No, that's not the reason why there are so many players who use shotguns in close quarters.

Really? And here I thought it was because they fit perfectly into how the game currently plays, as in most objectives are inside enclosed areas that forces players into close combat. I don't know where you got the idea that others believe that the shotgun's overall popularity is directly tied to the amount of shotgun variants in the game.
True, the pump action is probably a popular choice because of its ability to OHK other players. Although I personally prefer my automatic shotgun.
It's also true that shotguns aren't so much overpowered as the game itself simply lends itself more towards close quarters combat in many situations. High ROF weapons are no less effective in close quarters and it's easy enough to outmaneuver an inexperienced shotgun user. Then again it's not the inexperienced users I have a problem with.
I do believe that the main reason why people dislike pump action shotguns, or anything else that can OHK, is that the players in question will feel cheated; unable to react before dying. Many other weapons give the illusion of the ability to react, even though they don't actually allow for it.

Well you know what you can not do if you ever feel like not contributing to a discussion.

[Kail]

Completely agree. They're in the wrong hands though, paying people only. Which is why I created this topic.

Yeah, its terrible that shotguns are only available for SC through the marketplace.

I don't think SMGs and Shotgun's need to be available by default because the default weapon's aren't supposed to allow for every gameplay style. If you look, every single default weapon across infantry & vehicles fits into a "useful at any range and target" category with the exception of the sniper rifles.

However I think it would make a lot of sense to have one of the shotguns be a 250 or 500 cert version to allow players to pick up that playstyle faster if that's what they want (much like the Burst or SF variants of carbines / ARs).

[Snydenthur]

The reason shotguns are popular (though they don't actually seem as omnipresent as the melodramatic people in this thread are making out on Miller at least) is not because there are five of them, but because they became the flavour of the month when people started bellowing about how OP they were. People will always gravitate to whatever they think will get them the most kills, regardless of how many different options there are.

They aren't really as popular as people say there are. I'm on miller too, I don't really see any biolab or tower fight full of shotguns. On the contrary, they are the minority. During some games I haven't seen a single shotgun user. I agree with you that if they are popular somewhere, it's because of community. Most people go on about shotgun being overpowered, so of course some people automatically start using it.

I don't know how accurate some sites are, but the most used pump action shotgun sees an average of 2h 23min of usage. For some measurement, there are only 4 carbines that are used less than pump action shotguns, on average. And only 1 lmg that is used less than that.

[Shuuda]

I don't know where you got the idea that others believe that the shotgun's overall popularity is directly tied to the amount of shotgun variants in the game.

I must have worded things very badly, and now I wish there was a "delete" button for it. I wasn't trying to suggest that people see that as a reason shotguns are more popular, even if that's exactly what I ended up saying in a moments misjudgement. People often makes comments over how there are "too many" shotguns in the game, for which there are five. I don't see why such a thing is relavent to the balance of these weapons since they are just side grades of each other. It just seems like a moot point for which they try to pile on more reasons to dislike shotguns.


It's also true that shotguns aren't so much overpowered as the game itself simply lends itself more towards close quarters combat in many situations. High ROF weapons are no less effective in close quarters and it's easy enough to outmaneuver an inexperienced shotgun user. Then again it's not the inexperienced users I have a problem with.

While I agree with this for most part, I must also say that for the most part it is not hard to position one's self in a way as to not get completely topped by shotgun. Most of my deaths to shotguns are more down to carelessness of a lapse in awareness than unavoidable point blank fights. In my experience, I used to use a shotgun but then quit after finding a carbine to be the generally more useful weapon in more situations for LA. Everytime I try to use a shotgun nowadays I normal give up on the thought of "I'd probably have won that fight if I had been using another weapon".


Well you know what you can not do if you ever feel like not contributing to a discussion.

You'll have to forgive me for the last comment. It's just the rampant hysteria of some posts just frustrates me to no end.

[ChipMHazard]

I must have worded things very badly, and now I wish there was a "delete" button for it. I wasn't trying to suggest that people see that as a reason shotguns are more popular, even if that's exactly what I ended up saying in a moments misjudgement. People often makes comments over how there are "too many" shotguns in the game, for which there are five. I don't see why such a thing is relavent to the balance of these weapons since they are just side grades of each other. It just seems like a moot point for which they try to pile on more reasons to dislike shotguns.

While I agree with this for most part, I must also say that for the most part it is not hard to position one's self in a way as to not get completely topped by shotgun. Most of my deaths to shotguns are more down to carelessness of a lapse in awareness than unavoidable point blank fights. In my experience, I used to use a shotgun but then quit after finding a carbine to be the generally more useful weapon in more situations for LA.

You'll have to forgive me for the last comment. It's just the rampant hysteria of some posts just frustrates me to no end.

True. The obvious reason why there are so many variants is for SOE to make more money.
The only issue I can see with the amount of shotgun variants is that some people believe SOE's business model makes them nerf an older version before a newer version is released. But yes, it doesn't have anything to do with the overall balance.

Agreed. Most time when I get killed by a shotgun it's either bad luck (Only needing one more shot from my carbine to kill someone with a shotgun), getting taken by complete surprise (At which point it probably doesn't matter what weapon was being used) or me being an idiot and sprinting around corners (Even when I know I shouldn't) or otherwise not paying attention to my surroundings.
You're right, it is easy enough to stay out of the shotguns' effective range, in many cases at least. There are still many situations where you can't avoid if you want to play the objective.
I also agree that carbines, assault rifles etc. are more versatile than shotguns. Which is also why I normally use them, even in very close quarters.

It happens to us all. :p

[Whiteagle]

I also agree that carbines, assault rifles etc. are more versatile than shotguns. Which is also why I normally use them, even in very close quarters.
Should be but aren't...

The other day at Indar Comm I was facing down another Light Assualt with my range kitted AMC...

...Was wondering why he bothered to close by going around and over the building instead of just sniping when he two-shotted me on his way down from the roof...
Shotgun blues man.:(

[Rolfski]

Let me get this clear. It's not so much the shotguns I worry about although I'm not a fan of insta-kill mechanics.
It's the infiltrators as one of the best CQB classes that I think should be available as a default.

[simmi]

People crying about shotguns... what are you guys smoking? Shotguns are only a viable option on the towers or in closed rooms in bio labs. That is ALL. I use Gauss Compact S way more than a shotgun. How do you expect to one hit kill someone at more than 10m? Get serious. I play LA. I kill a lot of people that are carrying shotguns. This is what you do: Run away from them, look back, kill them. It works 50% of the time even in bio labs. At Tech plants and Amp stations any1 carrying a shotgun is a moron. Only place shotguns are OP is in the towers, but that's OK they need to be useful SOMEWHERE. I only use shotguns 10% of the time I play. I am opposed to one hit shotguns. For example, the pump action ones, but two hit shotguns are completely and totally fair at the moment because of their specialized utilization. I use Mauler S6 at the moment which takes two hits to kill unless it's a headshot. Sometimes takes 4 hits on heavies at 7-10m.

[Timealude]

People crying about shotguns... what are you guys smoking? Shotguns are only a viable option on the towers or in closed rooms in bio labs. That is ALL. I use Gauss Compact S way more than a shotgun. How do you expect to one hit kill someone at more than 10m? Get serious. I play LA. I kill a lot of people that are carrying shotguns. This is what you do: Run away from them, look back, kill them. It works 50% of the time even in bio labs. At Tech plants and Amp stations any1 carrying a shotgun is a moron. Only place shotguns are OP is in the towers, but that's OK they need to be useful SOMEWHERE. I only use shotguns 10% of the time I play. I am opposed to one hit shotguns. For example, the pump action ones, but two hit shotguns are completely and totally fair at the moment because of their specialized utilization. I use Mauler S6 at the moment which takes two hits to kill unless it's a headshot. Sometimes takes 4 hits on heavies at 7-10m.

what about the ones that are smart and ambush you?

[Snydenthur]

I am opposed to one hit shotguns. For example, the pump action ones, but two hit shotguns are completely and totally fair at the moment because of their specialized utilization. I use Mauler S6 at the moment which takes two hits to kill unless it's a headshot. Sometimes takes 4 hits on heavies at 7-10m.

So you hate pump actions, but you like the much better and more forgiving shotguns? If you have a problem with pump actions, you definately should have a problem with semi auto and auto shotguns. You don't really have a chance against them. Pump action is easy to fight against, since they are punished for missing the shot.

[Kail]

what about the ones that are smart and ambush you?

Then it doesn't matter what gun (or knife) they use.

[Sifer2]

So you hate pump actions, but you like the much better and more forgiving shotguns? If you have a problem with pump actions, you definately should have a problem with semi auto and auto shotguns. You don't really have a chance against them. Pump action is easy to fight against, since they are punished for missing the shot.


The Semi's give you a chance as it's two shots to kill or three depending on hit detection luck at it's ideal range. You can be mowed down by hip fire of a Carbine/SMG in that time. I know i've done it several times to semi shotgunners. Pumps however instantly kill you. So you never really feel you had a chance. Even Heavies with their shields up instantly die. This is why people dislike the weapon. It's only fun if your the one using it.


Anyway to the topic creator I think he makes valid points. However even though it's selfish I am glad Shotguns are behind a pay wall. Since probably 60% or more of the players of the game are free players. That's a lot of people who are not yet whoring out shotguns thus making CQC not quite so annoying. It really would indeed become Shotgunside 2 if everyone had them by default no doubt. The solution the second post had of making cheaper NS variants is better though as others have said it feels there is enough of these weapons already.

[Snydenthur]

The Semi's give you a chance as it's two shots to kill or three depending on hit detection luck at it's ideal range. You can be mowed down by hip fire of a Carbine/SMG in that time. I know i've done it several times to semi shotgunners. Pumps however instantly kill you. So you never really feel you had a chance. Even Heavies with their shields up instantly die. This is why people dislike the weapon. It's only fun if your the one using it.

No, you're over exaggerating like everyone. Pump actions do not have a 100% chance to kill with one hit. From my experience, both using and being shot by them, they are more often 2-3 hit kill rather than killing with one shot. That's why semi and auto shotguns are better, they are very forgiving and they kill faster. Unless you encounter idiots that just run into you and don't know what they are even doing.

If they were 100% sure one shot kill superweapons, how is it possible that I hardly ever die to them? And why people don't even use them? If they were overpowered, I'd expect to see a lot of people using them, but they are very unused weapons.

[Sifer2]

No, you're over exaggerating like everyone. Pump actions do not have a 100% chance to kill with one hit. From my experience, both using and being shot by them, they are more often 2-3 hit kill rather than killing with one shot. That's why semi and auto shotguns are better, they are very forgiving and they kill faster. Unless you encounter idiots that just run into you and don't know what they are even doing.

If they were 100% sure one shot kill superweapons, how is it possible that I hardly ever die to them? And why people don't even use them? If they were overpowered, I'd expect to see a lot of people using them, but they are very unused weapons.


Maybe people don't use them on your server. They do on mine. And they kill in one shot at the usual indoor engagement range. It's still fairly common to see LA's swooping in on folks an dropping them like flies with them. It's really just about knowing what your doing. Putting yourself into positions where the person will have to approach you at close range then instant gibbing them. They have no real way of knowing your using a Pump Action until its too late. They are not idiots just because they can't know in advance you have a weapon that auto wins indoor combat.

[TheSaltySeagull]

No, you're over exaggerating like everyone. Pump actions do not have a 100% chance to kill with one hit. From my experience, both using and being shot by them, they are more often 2-3 hit kill rather than killing with one shot. That's why semi and auto shotguns are better, they are very forgiving and they kill faster. Unless you encounter idiots that just run into you and don't know what they are even doing.

If they were 100% sure one shot kill superweapons, how is it possible that I hardly ever die to them? And why people don't even use them? If they were overpowered, I'd expect to see a lot of people using them, but they are very unused weapons.

The auto and semi shotguns are more forgiving but the PA is more rewarding to people who can actually aim as it has longer range due to its tighter spread and of course the potential to OHK. And as far as nobody is using them that is bull. They are without a doubt the most common shotguns used currently.

I do not think that the PA is "op" because statistically they are inline with the other shotguns. You gain a range and damage advantage at the cost of lower RoF, ammo capacity, and longer reload speed. However it is a "lame" design. OHK weapons are not fun for people on the receiving end because there is the potential to straight up auto-lose without being able to react. And the PA shotguns are by far the worst of the OHK weapons to play against right now because they are the easiest of the OHK weapons to use right now. If you have even half way decent aim you will be able to score a OHK the majority of the time.

[KodanBlack]

Shotguns are so stupid in their current implementation. Shotguns and MAXes are all there is in infantry fighting now, so glad I can use an ESF and ignore the cooky cutter shotgun loadout that defines PS2 infantry play.

Instead, using the cookie cutter rocketpod loadout that defines PS2 air power.

Serious question? How can you guys play infantry for any amount of time? Do you all just run around with OP shotguns? I can do it for maybe 10 minutes before reaching my breaking point, having half my enemies get a weapon that can instagib me at medium and closer ranges without needing to be aimed is just asinine.

Rhetorical answer, the same way that an ESF pilot can stand the contiual strafing runs with what many consider OP rocketpods against loads of infantry. It's flipping FUN!

This game has one of the worst weapon balances in infantry I have ever seen. It's just pump action and auto shotties and no other viable weapons... even doom2 was better. The only reason to play is for the ESF.

So that you can simply farm infantry and not have to face shotguns doing so?

Look, there are no one sided ways to play this game. Complaints about something being OP are silly to me after I sit back (for no more than a moment) to think of effective counters to what I've run into.

Infantry combat, even in (especially in) close quarters, is dynamic and exciting. Are there a lot of shotguns? Hell yeah, they excel in close quarters (I'm pretty sure that was how they were designed), but I see a huge number of SMG's, LMG's and other weapons in the mix, all doing just as well. I've even been using my SMG, NS-11C and NS-15M a lot more lately and I love them! They're effective at more than one range and extremely versatile when compared to a shotgun. That said, I won't hang up my shotguns. They have their role, even if it is a narrow one.

[Figment]

It would make sense under the "have everything anyway" system.


Personally I'd like to see more sensible flexibility and restriction...