Empire Specific AV, Where's the Lancers?

[PredatorFour]

So one thing we have noticed in our outfit is that every time we come up against nc, we hear the distinct whistling and blue orbs from their phoenix users. Every time we come up against the lock on republic, we hear the lock ons and the red orbs from their strikers. But where are the lancers ??? On our VS frontlines we see next to zero lancer users and it's a shame.

The Striker is probably the best AV/AA weapon in the game and seems to be quite buggy too. In a scythe it seems impossible to shake off with terrain (possibly goes through terrain?) and sometimes with lag you get locked on then get hit instantly.

The Phoenix seems a niche weapon, probably hard to control but still packs a punch and has it's uses on the frontline.

Then the Lancer, why don't VS use their AV as much as the other two empires ??????????

[Rasui]

Because the average player lacks imagination and only looks at the numbers. Same reason people think the Vortex is bad (it isn't).

[Gatekeeper]

Yeah, I've noticed exactly the same thing, I almost never see a Lancer used on Cobalt and last night was the first time I've ever seen anyone use a Vortex outside of VR.

I think the problem is that a lot of people, like me, tested them out in VR when they first came out and/or took them out for a 30 min trial, and found they were basically useless. Lock-on rocket launchers are just better.

Maybe they get good with a lot of practice and/or skill, or maybe if you have a coordinated squad using them - but people will never find out, because they seem so underwhelming initially. As with all weapons - they won't really pick up in usage until people see others using them (successfully!).

[Rasui]

Yeah, I've noticed exactly the same thing, I almost never see a Lancer used on Cobalt and last night was the first time I've ever seen anyone use a Vortex outside of VR.

I think the problem is that a lot of people, like me, tested them out in VR when they first came out and/or took them out for a 30 min trial, and found they were basically useless. Lock-on rocket launchers are just better.

Maybe they get good with a lot of practice and/or skill, or maybe if you have a coordinated squad using them - but people will never find out, because they seem so underwhelming initially. As with all weapons - they won't really pick up in usage until people see others using them (successfully!).

I converted a few people yesterday in a pub-platoon when I was knocking Mossies out of the sky with my Vortex's.

[Eggy]

I got hit by plenty of Lancers on Miller last night. My hillbilly harraser style complete with voice comms "yeah haws" was getting peppered by them for hours.

Id also like to add that on paper the striker is "maybe" the best.
In reality its not, and with all the bugs the

In terms of pure AV potential and damage the phoenix definatley comes out on top, espicaly since 99.9% of the time the projectile isnt anywhere near the on screen graphic.

The striker is the best AA due to its lockon, but generaly "some" of the round in a clip just seem to "fizzle" and the 2nd clip is generaly full of blanks.

The lancer is "ok" at AV and "soso" at AA, works great in numbers and has the advantage of massive alpha strike. As far as I know it also has the benfits of zero bugs.

[Emperor Newt]

The problem with the Lancer is that in many situations is that you won't be able to get of a fully charged shot and there also is a big chance that you miss. The whole charge-up mechanic is heavily punishing on the user, especially because it requires quiet some training. It can be used very effectively, but only few users will be able to get to that point.
I think you would see more use of them if they would change the charge up mechanic to being more of a "bonus" instead of something you are required to do to unfold the full potential of the weapon. This would of course require some serious rework on how the charge up works, mag size, damage values, range drop off etc.

With the current lancer the risk/reward balance simply isn't there to see John "Casual" Doe use it.

[Gimpylung]

With the current lancer the risk/reward balance simply isn't there to see John "Casual" Doe use it.

Lol, Quoting you twice in one day, I totally agree with you here.

Too much drama to fire the damn thing versus the likelihood of any reward.

Reduce the charge up time and give it a long range sight, reduce the damage for any percieved OPness after those changes.

[Canaris]

I keep encountering them on Miller so some VS must be using them

[Gatekeeper]

Reduce the charge up time and give it a long range sight, reduce the damage for any percieved OPness after those changes.

Absolutely. It seems crazy to make it a hard-hitting, long-range weapon with a fast projectile - but then give it a crappy short-range scope.

TBH I don't understand why you can't just buy different scopes for AV weapons just like everything else. Would be nice to get scopes for pistols too, while we're at it (not that I think we need them exactly, but it might be fun).

[CraazyCanuck]

Scopes on pistols and launchers would be fantastic. Could add one to the AV turret as well while they're plugging away at it.

Newt nailed it. Charging up just isnt worth the risk of getting pot shotted. Your ass is hanging out too long in the wind, just waiting for one of those pesky snipers to sting u. Not to mention air/armor bombardment.

[Geld]

The Lancer is in heavy use on Mattherson. I see beams shooting at vehicles all the time.

I see them usually a couple at a time just firing off rapid shots rather than charged unless they're very far out.

[Assist]

Because the average player lacks imagination and only looks at the numbers. Same reason people think the Vortex is bad (it isn't).

Indeed.
Vortex is ridiculous, IMO. Too good for AV. Lancer is very good as well, it's really needs another AV weapon of some sort with it to make it really powerful. But the Vortex... anyone complaining about this gun should be rerolling TR, the tears belong on that faction.

[Gatekeeper]

I've not seen anyone complain about the Vortex - but I've also not seen it used much. And the stats someone posted in another thread on AV suggested it's the least used and least effective (in terms of kills earned) of the new MAX AV weapons.

Can't comment from personal experience either way, but it seems clear that regardless of whether they're theoretically effective or not, a lot of people aren't that keen on the Lancer or Vortex as they stand right now - or at least not keen enough to spend actual money on them.

[CToxin]

I can't go near a major VS battle with a tank because all I hear is the thump thump thump of people rapid firing lancers at me. In one fight I got burst down by lancer fire in less than half a second of the first one landing.

[Gatekeeper]

I can't go near a major VS battle with a tank because all I hear is the thump thump thump of people rapid firing lancers at me. In one fight I got burst down by lancer fire in less than half a second of the first one landing.

Maybe this is just one of those quirks of different servers then - or perhaps I just don't notice Lancers on Cobalt because I'm not the one they're shooting at.

Would be interesting to see the relative usage statistics for the various AV weapons...

[WSNeo]

I see GOKU outfit on Mattherson using them all the time.. A few weeks ago they completely stopped the NC Esamir Alert Zerg in their tracks by setting up a platoon outside of a bridge/frozen lake choke point. Anything not purple didn't stay alive for more than a few seconds.

[GOKU]***39;s Lancer Light Show - YouTube

[hashish]

lol thats a funny video with the music n stuff haha :p

But ye i must say it is kinda unfortunate that Vanu doesnt get as much love as the other factions.. It is fair to say SOE has fucked up the VS since beta really.. I used to really like T_ray n stuff but all these guys have ruined VS big time with their crappy designs and absolutely SHIT ES weapons.. except for the lancer, its the only decent one.. and im a ps1 vet that used to play as VS for yearrrs..

The lancer is actually a pretty good weapon, its just that it requires much more skill to use than the other ES AV launchers. I also think the charge up thing just sucks balls, really adds 10x more skill and difficulty to using it as you have to follow and track your moving target (which is really really hard from a distance), Then you have to have your weapons charged or charge it and time your shots along with tracking an inch or so infront of your target, and what makes it even more HARD is that the bloody velocity changes on each charge so its very very very annoying to predict different velocities.. If you decide to shoot without charge and spam shots, you will get noticed becuase of a BIG blue trails coming from ur face lol and you will die shortly :)..

They really should remove the charge thing and jus let it fire normally with full damage and velocity. The single charge shots actually dont DO SHITT ! so there is 0 point in having it..

Also it would be nice if they add the old lancer sound since all the other ES AV launchers have a distinct and threatening sound.. The lancer sounds like SHIT lol but does seem to work pretty well in groups for the most part..

[ThatGoatGuy]

The Striker is probably the best AV/AA weapon in the game and seems to be quite buggy too. In a scythe it seems impossible to shake off with terrain (possibly goes through terrain?) and sometimes with lag you get locked on then get hit instantly.

New tracking system with ALL lockon missiles. Moves around terrain and shit and it virtually impossible to dodge, which is why you should always be running flares if you are flying up against TR.

[Gatekeeper]

New tracking system with ALL lockon missiles. Moves around terrain and shit and it virtually impossible to dodge, which is why you should always be running flares if you are flying up against TR.

That might be true for A2A lockons, but my A2G lockon missiles just randomly plough into the ground instead of following their target about 30% of the time. Stupid missiles :(

[PredatorFour]

New tracking system with ALL lockon missiles. Moves around terrain and shit and it virtually impossible to dodge, which is why you should always be running flares if you are flying up against TR.

Thing is, you release your flares and still get hit alot of the time. Or you see the lock on and get hit immediately.

[KarrdeBRBU]

We use Lancers constantly. They're really nasty, esp in groups.

[Dragonskin]

Most of the big outfits have lancer users on Mattherson. I know I have seen GOKU in force a few times, but I have also seen AT, GOTR, and TEST pull out more than a few if the situation calls for it.

There was one night not too long ago that the TR were trying to attack a VS held base in the desert area of Indar and no TR vehicles stood a chance. All you saw were streams of lancers.. then of course someone from GOKU yelling about the Ginyu Force lol.

Personally I love my Lancer more so than my Striker.

[RANDOMpercent]

I actually like the lancer. The optimal range is pretty far so you can snipe tanks. It does have a bit of a learning curb but you get used to it after having used it for a couple hours. I've spent a while defending Indar excavation site from a stream of sunderers coming out of Quartz Ridge. The only things that are really hard to hit are flashes, ESFs, and newly harassers.

[Assist]

I've not seen anyone complain about the Vortex - but I've also not seen it used much. And the stats someone posted in another thread on AV suggested it's the least used and least effective (in terms of kills earned) of the new MAX AV weapons.

Can't comment from personal experience either way, but it seems clear that regardless of whether they're theoretically effective or not, a lot of people aren't that keen on the Lancer or Vortex as they stand right now - or at least not keen enough to spend actual money on them.

I chalk this up to player ignorance :P They simply don't know how good they are because they don't see anyone else using them. It's like how Tank mines and Prox Mines were on release, no one used them but they were way more effective back then than they are now. I pulled my highest score/hr ever using the Vortex exclusively for two hours the day they released, more than I ever earned during double xp christmas holiday week.

[Rbstr]

XoO has a bunch of lancers. It's devastating when you can get clear lines of sight. Esamir, for instance.

It'd be nice if the Vortex would use the lancer's timing instead of firing right away on full charge. I've only trialed it, but I thought it was decent.
Part of its lower usage must be that it's not nearly as good as killing infantry as the other two.

[Ruffdog]

I won't lie to you. If I see a heavy packing a lancer, they're the first to get both barrels.

[Frotang]

Maybe this is just one of those quirks of different servers then - or perhaps I just don't notice Lancers on Cobalt because I'm not the one they're shooting at.

Would be interesting to see the relative usage statistics for the various AV weapons...

Here you go:

Phoenix: vehics destroyed-483286; users-29622; play time-37023 Hrs
Striker: vehics destroyed-468648; users-30935; play time-40567 Hrs
Lancer: vehics destroyed-230390; users-26148; play time-19018 Hrs

Here they are listed by avg. Vehic kills per hr using the total play time.

Phoenix: 13.054
Striker: 11.552
Lancer: 12.115



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[Corvo]

I see Lancer users decimating our armor columns every day.

[NUKABAZOOKA]

I won't lie to you. If I see a heavy packing a lancer, they're the first to get both barrels.

Because they're the easiest to spot, right?

[Ruffdog]

Because they're the easiest to spot, right?

Can you blame us if they have shitty R&D? :D Ironic for a mob you can't see in the dark

[AThreatToYou]

I don't see any Lancers on Waterson... probably because I don't see any VS on Waterson.

[Rbstr]

Here you go:

Phoenix: vehics destroyed-483286; users-29622; play time-37023 Hrs
Striker: vehics destroyed-468648; users-30935; play time-40567 Hrs
Lancer: vehics destroyed-230390; users-26148; play time-19018 Hrs

Here they are listed by avg. Vehic kills per hr using the total play time.

Phoenix: 13.054
Striker: 11.552
Lancer: 12.115

That's a fun statistic to pick. By all the other measures the Lancer is the oddball.

Lancers kill less than half as many vehicles than the others with about half as much time in use. But there's only 13% fewer users!
That means a guy with a Lancer does about half as much killing compared to the other two (8.8 kills/user vs. 15.1 and 16.3).

They're also being used less than an hour per person, while the others are used at substantially higher rates.

Seems to me like lots of people have one, yet only a few people us it.
What exactly is measured for a "user" and "play time"?

[phungus]

It's because the lancer takes too long to charge for how much damage it does. It's very difficult to use without any noteable upside.

[Stanis]

The charge on the lancer and vortex is a cool mechanic that adds an option to it's use.
At least I think that's how the devs see it, and how I use it.

It is intended to be spammed in rapid fire mode.
This is when they have the highest consistent DPS.

[Dragonskin]

It's because the lancer takes too long to charge for how much damage it does. It's very difficult to use without any noteable upside.

Without noteable upsides other than range, travel time, not countered by flares or IR smoke, no lock-on so there is no indicator for enemies that gives them a heads up that damage is coming?

Yea if you exclude all those then you're right.