All roads lead to Freyr

[Gatekeeper]

Ok, look, I like fighting at Freyr as much as the next man - but I'm starting to think there's something seriously wrong with the battle-flow on Esamir when Freyr finds itself contested pretty much non-stop by all three factions.

You'd expect that Eisa would be the focus for the continent, since it's the only tech plant and is right in the middle - that makes it the equivalent of the Crown, right? But actually no, Eisa is a side-show, rarely properly contested and it's actually Freyr that's the Crown-equivalent for Esamir.

This is really a problem because Freyr isn't in the middle, it's the hub of the North-West territory - which basically means that whoever has the NW WG is locked into constant battles over Freyr and the nearby territories and is almost constantly double-teamed.

I'm not exactly sure why, but the NE WG is clearly the most advantageous position on Esamir - and whoever has that gate almost always dominates the continent.

Is this just something that happens on Cobalt, or is this situation universal? Assuming it's not just us, will the new 'rush lane/lattice' system fix this? And if not, what can we do to fix it?

IMO at least part of the solution has to be to make Eisa (and all tech plants, ideally) more defensible, so we see some real battles over it. It might also help if the territories that shelter behind Freyr (Northern Weigh Station, Haven Outpost and Palos Solar Array) were easier to defend once Freyr falls - as it stands they're almost impossible to hold against any kind of concerted push.

What do people think?

[rompafrolic]

On miller it tends to be the NC who dominate Esamir, regardless of warpgate. I'm not sure what it is about that continent, but it's definitely iffy.

[ThatGoatGuy]

I've noticed that whoever own's the WG near freyr always gets doubleteamed (not necessarily at freyr but in general) because there is quite some distance between the two other WGs. I'm still glad it isn't like indar though, with the northern WG always getting more resources and cap land for alerts.

[Gatekeeper]

I've noticed that whoever own's the WG near freyr always gets doubleteamed (not necessarily at freyr but in general) because there is quite some distance between the two other WGs. I'm still glad it isn't like indar though, with the northern WG always getting more resources and cap land for alerts.

Yeah, Esamir is still my favourite continent - and it's normally ok when an alert is on. Would definitely be better if they could balance the WGs better though, being double-teamed all the time is pretty depressing...

[ThatGoatGuy]

Yeah, Esamir is still my favourite continent - and it's normally ok when an alert is on. Would definitely be better if they could balance the WGs better though, being double-teamed all the time is pretty depressing...

I absolutely love it, it means that I can "fight in all directions." Sounds corny, but think about being at mani or in this case Freyr, you are getting a higher XP income because you have more to fight, whereas if you had one of the other WGs and were fighting at something like Eisa or Nott amp, there aren't as many people, therefore less XP income, therefore less fun.

NOTE: If you don't have the same views as fun in the game, please keep them to yourself. I enjoy this game by gaining certs.

[Gatekeeper]

Yeah, I like that Freyr and Mani have a lot of good fights - but it'd be nice sometimes to have a bit of breathing room! Or to be on the offensive for a change! Also being double-teamed all the time tends to make a lot of people leave the continent, which then makes the fight even more uneven...

Basically if the big fight was in the middle of the continent, that'd be great - then you could chose to participate or not, and it wouldn't favour any one faction. As it stands the NW WG is going to struggle to even hold its home territory, let alone conquer the continent - and that just doesn't feel fair.

[Assist]

This is really a problem because Freyr isn't in the middle, it's the hub of the North-West territory - which basically means that whoever has the NW WG is locked into constant battles over Freyr and the nearby territories and is almost constantly double-teamed.


The NW warpgate also is the best warpgate on Esamir (IMO). You're so close to Andvari and Mani, Snowshear and Freyr/Esamir Munitions. Best warpgate because of the value of the bases around it, and the best bases to fight at on Esamir.

[AuntLou]

The problem w/ Esamir is that the 3 warpgates are in the corners. This cuts off the NW territories from the SE. So the NW warpgate always will get pushed on by the other 2 empires while the rest of their armies fight on the huge hunk of territory to the SE.

[Timealude]

if they add some sort of rush lane system to esamir it might help a little bit in the aspect of getting double teamed.

[ThatGoatGuy]

The NW warpgate also is the best warpgate on Esamir (IMO). You're so close to Andvari and Mani, Snowshear and Freyr/Esamir Munitions. Best warpgate because of the value of the bases around it, and the best bases to fight at on Esamir.

This ^^

As for pushing out, before the WG rotation I found myself fighting at places like Jaeger's Crossing and Two stone beach (Warpgating the NC FTW) a lot, although we (TE) enjoy pushing at enemy Warpgates to get an immense fight, whether or not we are outnumbered.

[p0intman]

Ok, look, I like fighting at Freyr as much as the next man - but I'm starting to think there's something seriously wrong with the battle-flow on Esamir when Freyr finds itself contested pretty much non-stop by all three factions.

You'd expect that Eisa would be the focus for the continent, since it's the only tech plant and is right in the middle - that makes it the equivalent of the Crown, right? But actually no, Eisa is a side-show, rarely properly contested and it's actually Freyr that's the Crown-equivalent for Esamir.

This is really a problem because Freyr isn't in the middle, it's the hub of the North-West territory - which basically means that whoever has the NW WG is locked into constant battles over Freyr and the nearby territories and is almost constantly double-teamed.

I'm not exactly sure why, but the NE WG is clearly the most advantageous position on Esamir - and whoever has that gate almost always dominates the continent.

Is this just something that happens on Cobalt, or is this situation universal? Assuming it's not just us, will the new 'rush lane/lattice' system fix this? And if not, what can we do to fix it?

IMO at least part of the solution has to be to make Eisa (and all tech plants, ideally) more defensible, so we see some real battles over it. It might also help if the territories that shelter behind Freyr (Northern Weigh Station, Haven Outpost and Palos Solar Array) were easier to defend once Freyr falls - as it stands they're almost impossible to hold against any kind of concerted push.

What do people think?
All roads lead to Eisa you mean?

Once you understand that, you really will understand Esamir in its current incarnation. And, you're wrong, you can in fact push north from the southern WG and hold majority terrain - NC on Connery did this a lot. The only reason anyone holds Freyr is because of its easier location to farm at. If you hold Eisa though, it is far easier to push around wherever you like.

[Dougnifico]

I would actually attribute all these issue to the square maps. They say it optimizes land usage but it is actually very bad for balance. It would be dandy with 4 factions, but with only 3, someone tends to get screwed or one tends to have a big advantage.

[Gatekeeper]

All roads lead to Eisa you mean?

Once you understand that, you really will understand Esamir in its current incarnation. And, you're wrong, you can in fact push north from the southern WG and hold majority terrain - NC on Connery did this a lot. The only reason anyone holds Freyr is because of its easier location to farm at. If you hold Eisa though, it is far easier to push around wherever you like.

No. I meant Freya. No one cares about Eisa. Any fight there is normally over in minutes, and is rarely interesting.

And yes, I've seen Esamir conquered from all three warpgates - I'm not saying it's impossible to take from any of them (and I didn't say anything about the SW WG, I was complaining about the NW one) I'm just saying that the fact that the big fights always happen around Freya makes Esamir an uphill struggle for whoever has the NW WG.

And yes, I agree with people saying that Freya and Snowshear are fun places to fight, and always having a fight on your doorstep does make things interesting. But it's also nice to have a balanced fight now and again, rather than being constantly double-teamed.

All I'm really saying is that Esamir would be an even better continent if the focus actually was on Eisa rather than on Freya, just because it would help balance things between all three factions.

[p0intman]

No. I meant Freya. No one cares about Eisa. Any fight there is normally over in minutes, and is rarely interesting.

And yes, I've seen Esamir conquered from all three warpgates - I'm not saying it's impossible to take from any of them (and I didn't say anything about the SW WG, I was complaining about the NW one) I'm just saying that the fact that the big fights always happen around Freya makes Esamir an uphill struggle for whoever has the NW WG.

And yes, I agree with people saying that Freya and Snowshear are fun places to fight, and always having a fight on your doorstep does make things interesting. But it's also nice to have a balanced fight now and again, rather than being constantly double-teamed.

All I'm really saying is that Esamir would be an even better continent if the focus actually was on Eisa rather than on Freya, just because it would help balance things between all three factions.

I think if, frankly, tech plants in specific were easier (and more fun) to defend, this might actually change. There are base placements and other map issues throughout the game that either are crap, or are just poorly thought out. For example on Indar with the tech plant in the north where the TR wg currently is, or with the tech plant in the south on Amerish. There are just things like that that make fighting a pain in the ass and a bit biased to wg placement, more than it should be for that matter.

Mind you, I'm not disagreeing with you, but I am trying to point out how apparently Esamir was laid out more akin to a king of the hill style layout. It doesnt work that way, but thats how it is.

[Gatekeeper]

I think if, frankly, tech plants in specific were easier (and more fun) to defend, this might actually change. There are base placements and other map issues throughout the game that either are crap, or are just poorly thought out. For example on Indar with the tech plant in the north where the TR wg currently is, or with the tech plant in the south on Amerish. There are just things like that that make fighting a pain in the ass and a bit biased to wg placement, more than it should be for that matter.

Mind you, I'm not disagreeing with you, but I am trying to point out how apparently Esamir was laid out more akin to a king of the hill style layout. It doesnt work that way, but thats how it is.

I agree that at least part of the problem is the design of the tech plants - amp stations are just a lot more defensible and so a lot more fun to fight at. Freyr is easily the most defensible base on the continent, and so has the most fun fights.

IMO the easiest fix is to improve Eisa - ideally bringing it up to Freyr's level. It *should* be the focus of the continent, but that will only happen if it becomes somewhere you can actually hold.

[Figment]

It's simple really, the south-north route through Andvari and north west-north east route through Mani dominate the continent.

This is because of the warpgate locations that make the south east rarely contested in full. Instead, empires move along the west and north side of the map, then bend towards the middle as they meet the warpgate and can't continue forward: hi Freyr.

[Gatekeeper]

It's simple really, the south-north route through Andvari and north west-north east route through Mani dominate the continent.

This is because of the warpgate locations that make the south east rarely contested in full. Instead, empires move along the west and north side of the map, then bend towards the middle as they meet the warpgate and can't continue forward: hi Freyr.

That's an excellent summary, thanks.

So what's the simplest way of fixing this? Can we change behaviours by strengthening the defences of some bases and weakening others? Or will nothing short of moving one or more WGs solve this?

[Figment]

First analyse the root of the problem further:

They try to apply triangular symmetry on a rectangular continent.


I think the answer is obvious.

[EvilNinjadude]

If TR is not holding Esamir on Waterson, something is wrong.

[Gatekeeper]

First analyse the root of the problem further:

They try to apply triangular symmetry on a rectangular continent.


I think the answer is obvious.

I hear what you're saying, but it's probably a given that they're not going to completely rework the continent just to fix this problem.

That doesn't mean that you can't improve on the current layout though - so got any thoughts on how to do that?

As it stands, I guess we'll just have to hope that the new 'rush lane' system imposes a bit more balance, and maybe funnels more people through Eisa. I just hope SOE realises this is an issue.

[MrMak]

How bout swap the SW warpgate with Eli Amp.

[ElSol]

How bout swap the SW warpgate with Eli Amp.

That is what I was thinking too. But it would get the SW-W (or S-W then :- ) very close to Eisa Tech. There would be only one base between the Warpgate and Eisa.
You also need to change or move the bases of Everett Supply Co., The Old Shore Checkpoint and The Bullwark, because they would be pretty close to the Warpgate and pretty easy to attack from there.

Another thing that could work is if you, I hope I can explain that understandable, make the hill that is in Aurora Materials go all the way down through Apex Genetics to the little hill in the upper left corner of Eisa. This should "force" the movement from Apex down to Saerro and not to Aurora.

Maybe both together?

And now for something completly different: Make a Summertime Esamir map! Keep it as it is right now. Just melt the ice, let grass and little flowers grow and cute bunnys hopp around that get overun then by a Vanguard that is on its way to cross a bridge (That would make the NW Warpgate stronger but also the NE Warpgate pretty weak I guess).