Anyone having fun with ESFs?

[phungus]

Anyone still having fun flying ESFs? What server are you playing on and what do you do to stay engaged in the game and enjoy yourself?

Took a week break and tried to play again and just kept running into flak everywhere, lost my two ESFs in short order to Burster MAXes, one of which of course was invulnerable behind his spawn shields, can't even dogfight with other ESFs without getting killed by burster MAXes from god knows where.

I'm actually pretty serious here, not just trying to complain/whine. How are people still having fun flying these things, what are you guys doing, and where are you doing it? I can't figure out how to do anything but get shot by omnipresent flak and I really just don't find that experience engaging.

[Shogun]

no joystick support, no fun on any aircraft.

[Roderick]

I have fun with ESF's still, but I agree with the above poster. This game needs true joystick support.

[RSphil]

errr no. the joystick thing doesn't bother me anymore as they are more like helo's anyway. the main problem i have is lack of dogfighting. nearly every engagement ends up in hover wars and dont like it. they need to severely imped maneuverability when hovering or put proper STOL jets in the game for goo dogfights.

[Whiteagle]

I have fun with ESF's still, but I agree with the above poster. This game needs true joystick support.
Apparently Waterson is the only good Server for Air, considering I too still have fun with my ESF...

[snafus]

Anyone still having fun flying ESFs? What server are you playing on and what do you do to stay engaged in the game and enjoy yourself?

Took a week break and tried to play again and just kept running into flak everywhere, lost my two ESFs in short order to Burster MAXes, one of which of course was invulnerable behind his spawn shields, can't even dogfight with other ESFs without getting killed by burster MAXes from god knows where.

I'm actually pretty serious here, not just trying to complain/whine. How are people still having fun flying these things, what are you guys doing, and where are you doing it? I can't figure out how to do anything but get shot by omnipresent flak and I really just don't find that experience engaging.

It is a different case for each server phungus. There are some other servers where I can fly without seeing it for an hour. While on Connery I get blasted any time I sniff a fight these days. The best thing to do in my opinion is go A2G and avoid any prepared position that has AA. Find the weak and farm them before they burster up and ruin your day.

[Roderick]

Apparently Waterson is the only good Server for Air, considering I too still have fun with my ESF...

I can say with certainty that Waterson has a very nice compliment of ESF players on all sides that roll around with their squads and take on all comers.

When you get into ESF battles with 4 or more opponents and going in all different directions trying to avoid more collisions than bullet fire, it brings a higher level of excitement to the game.

[ThatGoatGuy]

Mattherson-The Enclave-Talon. Nuff said.

[snafus]

I can say with certainty that Waterson has a very nice compliment of ESF players on all sides that roll around with their squads and take on all comers.

When you get into ESF battles with 4 or more opponents and going in all different directions trying to avoid more collisions than bullet fire, it brings a higher level of excitement to the game.

Sadly I also heard Matherson and Waterson use A2AM in over abundance. This was told to me by multiple people who play actively there and get on Connery from time to time. To me that really ruins any kind of air game you might have since it takes away any skill that might be present. I don't care if you have thirty on thirty dog fights if A2AM are the weapon of choice, all I see is 60 nubs flying around.

[Sunrock]

errr no. the joystick thing doesn't bother me anymore as they are more like helo's anyway. the main problem i have is lack of dogfighting. nearly every engagement ends up in hover wars and dont like it. they need to severely imped maneuverability when hovering or put proper STOL jets in the game for goo dogfights.

All they need to do to make the dogfighting more dogfighting and less "hover wars" is to nerf the hover ability of the ESF. If you go under 100km the ESF drops out of the sky as a stone and problem solved.

[Roderick]

Sadly I also heard Matherson and Waterson use A2AM in over abundance. This was told to me by multiple people who play actively there and get on Connery from time to time. To me that really ruins any kind of air game you might have since it takes away any skill that might be present. I don't care if you have thirty on thirty dog fights if A2AM are the weapon of choice, all I see is 60 nubs flying around.

This is not totally true. While I too have used A2AM like I am sure everyone has here, the ratio of true ESF rotary fighters I believe dominates ratio wise over A2AM users. This does not include those using lock on SAMS on continents like Indar where we lose the flight ceiling advantage.

I feel 8 out of 10 times I will be shot down by a rotary gunner than an A2AM.

Don't go by what you "heard". Go on the server and judge for yourself.

[Whiteagle]

Sadly I also heard Matherson and Waterson use A2AM in over abundance. This was told to me by multiple people who play actively there and get on Connery from time to time. To me that really ruins any kind of air game you might have since it takes away any skill that might be present. I don't care if you have thirty on thirty dog fights if A2AM are the weapon of choice, all I see is 60 nubs flying around.
So instead of dealing with A2A missiles, which you see as skill-less, you'd much rather be blown up by flak that must be so thick it blackens the sky?

This is not totally true. While I too have used A2AM like I am sure everyone has here, the ratio of true ESF rotary fighters I believe dominates ratio wise over A2AM users. This does not include those using lock on SAMS on continents like Indar where we lose the flight ceiling advantage.

I feel 8 out of 10 times I will be shot down by a rotary gunner than an A2AM.

Don't go by what you "heard". Go on the server and judge for yourself.
Indeed, you do realise they nerfed A2A Missile Lock-on ranges, right?
Need to get them in the Circle at around 150-200 meters, which means they are useless in a turning fight.

[Sunrock]

Sadly I also heard Matherson and Waterson use A2AM in over abundance. This was told to me by multiple people who play actively there and get on Connery from time to time. To me that really ruins any kind of air game you might have since it takes away any skill that might be present. I don't care if you have thirty on thirty dog fights if A2AM are the weapon of choice, all I see is 60 nubs flying around.

:rolleyes: And every one that does not only use a knife to kill is a noob too right? :groovy:

It takes skill to use A2AM now a days. I had agreed with you if this was during beta when A2AM first was introduced to the game but if you still think they are no skills involved in using then in a dogfight you cant have played the game the last 5-6 months. Or at least it takes skills to use them on experienced pilotes that know what they are doing. And killing noob pilotes are easy no matter what weapon you use.

PS: And yes the A2A gun is allot better then A2AM anway. A2A are only good as a "finisher" if they try to out run you in a strait line or running down a Liberator.

[snafus]

So instead of dealing with A2A missiles, which you see as skill-less, you'd much rather be blown up by flak that must be so thick it blackens the sky?

Flak sucks but our flying community does a good job of chastising most pilots who use A2AM. We still have a very lively and competitive group of flyers on each faction. We just have to play carefully when anywhere near a fight due to Connery's obsession with AA. But yes I would rather deal with the ever present light show that AA provides then swarms of mindless pilots using A2AM and calling it a good flying community.

Edit: And on a second note I would vote Helios as the most air friendly server I have ever experienced. Can't tell you how long you can fly around there without a lock on or burster round singing your paint.

[Ghoest9]

I enjoy and make good use of my ESF.

But Im not really using it what you might consider the right way.

[snafus]

All they need to do to make the dogfighting more dogfighting and less "hover wars" is to nerf the hover ability of the ESF. If you go under 100km the ESF drops out of the sky as a stone and problem solved.

The VTOL aspect of this game has made dog fighting so much more. You have to be creative when flying an ESF in this game and that ****** a lot of people who are used to sims. Treat this game flying like space helicopters under water and it makes much more sense.

[Whiteagle]

Flak sucks but our flying community does a good job of chastising most pilots who use A2AM.
We just have to play carefully when anywhere near a fight due to Connery's obsession with AA.
Gee, I wonder why that is...

[Micro]

I have pretty fun with my AA Scythe, but as ppl have already said, dogfights in this game don't really work the way they should. If someone gets on your tail, you're most likely going to die/crash in a OP Tree.

[snafus]

:rolleyes: And every one that does not only use a knife to kill is a noob too right? :groovy:

It takes skill to use A2AM now a days. I had agreed with you if this was during beta when A2AM first was introduced to the game but if you still think they are no skills involved in using then in a dogfight you cant have played the game the last 5-6 months. Or at least it takes skills to use them on experienced pilotes that know what they are doing. And killing noob pilotes are easy no matter what weapon you use.

PS: And yes the A2A gun is allot better then A2AM anway. A2A are only good as a "finisher" if they try to out run you in a strait line or running down a Liberator.

When A2AM are used with a team of ESF they become easy mode. By themselves most A2AM pilots are free kills as they usually lack good dog fighting skills. But when used in tandom with two other dog fighters the A2AM ESF is able to quite literally slowly follow the fight missle spamming with ease. That is why they always were and always will be skill less. Unless they make you keep an aircraft within the reticule for the missile entire flight I can't support calling A2AM skill based.

[Sunrock]

The VTOL aspect of this game has made dog fighting so much more. You have to be creative when flying an ESF in this game and that ****** a lot of people who are used to sims. Treat this game flying like space helicopters under water and it makes much more sense.

I don't know about that. The most fun dogfighting you can have is in one of the Spitfire sims. ESF vs ESF dogfighting in this game is fun too but not by far as fun.

[snafus]

I don't know about that. The most fun dogfighting you can have is in one of the Spitfire sims. ESF vs ESF dogfighting in this game is fun too but not by far as fun.

I find regular sims to be boring and to long winded. You have to approach PS2 as a more arcade style of game with a much larger demand on creative flying and twitch skills. And it comes down to preference to as there is nothing wrong with traditional sims they just don't always appeal to me for as long. The things you can do with an aircraft in this game at low alt is just amazing to me. I never got that kind of enjoyment from a sim.

[Sunrock]

When A2AM are used with a team of ESF they become easy mode. By themselves most A2AM pilots are free kills as they usually lack good dog fighting skills. But when used in tandom with two other dog fighters the A2AM ESF is able to quite literally slowly follow the fight missle spamming with ease. That is why they always were and always will be skill less. Unless they make you keep an aircraft within the reticule for the missile entire flight I can't support calling A2AM skill based.

It takes as mush skill for 2 ESF working to gather to kill a single ESF using the A2AM or any of the main guns. It's not the weapon here that makes them superior it's that it's always more powerful to fly with a wing man then to fly solo.

I could compare your QQ over the A2AM with one infantry QQ'ing that he cant take on a trained NC squad all by him self because they are using rocket launchers.

[snafus]

It takes as mush skill for 2 ESF working to gather to kill a single ESF using the A2AM or any of the main guns. It's not the weapon here that makes them superior it's that it's always more powerful to fly with a wing man then to fly solo.

I could compare your QQ over the A2AM with one infantry QQ'ing that he cant take on a trained NC squad all by him self because they are using rocket launchers.

Oh sure teamwork is always superior to the individual. But what I am getting at is A2AM allow bad pilots a too strong of a weapon that require little effort to use. Can't tell you how many times I have been beating those three man teams to only have one of them hide on the fringes of the fight spamming lock A2AM because he sucks at dog fighting. If that player had to at least follow at close range and keep the enemy aircraft within the reticule then it could be respected. Until then the use of A2AM will be the laughing stock of the flying aspect of this game. It is right there with stryker spammers on TR in my opinion.

[Sunrock]

Oh sure teamwork is always superior to the individual. But what I am getting at is A2AM allow bad pilots a too strong of a weapon that require little effort to use. Can't tell you how many times I have been beating those three man teams to only have one of them hide on the fringes of the fight spamming lock A2AM because he sucks at dog fighting. If that player had to at least follow at close range and keep the enemy aircraft within the reticule then it could be respected. Until then the use of A2AM will be the laughing stock of the flying aspect of this game. It is right there with stryker spammers on TR in my opinion.

So when did you last dogfight in this game then? Back in august last year during beta? Because it damn sounds like it. The lock on range for the A2AM are allot shorter now then it used to be so they can no longer hide in the outskirts of the battle.

And yes I can see way they are using A2AM rather then the main gun. Because with A2AM you're avoiding dealing friendly fire to anyone. But I bet they would have killed you anyway. Because it's easier to kill some one with the main gun then A2AM. So if they killed you with A2AM they would have killed you with the main gun.

Stop be such a pussy over that you took on too mush and be a man about it.

[Sledgecrushr]

I love flying. And verrry slowly I am getting to be a better pilot. Still I wish they had some real joystick support in the game.

[Whiteagle]

Oh sure teamwork is always superior to the individual. But what I am getting at is A2AM allow bad pilots a too strong of a weapon that require little effort to use. Can't tell you how many times I have been beating those three man teams to only have one of them hide on the fringes of the fight spamming lock A2AM because he sucks at dog fighting. If that player had to at least follow at close range and keep the enemy aircraft within the reticule then it could be respected. Until then the use of A2AM will be the laughing stock of the flying aspect of this game. It is right there with stryker spammers on TR in my opinion.
So coordination to make up for lack of individual skill shouldn't be rewarded in a game all about team work?

So when did you last dogfight in this game then? Back in august last year during beta? Because it damn sounds like it. The lock on range for the A2AM are allot shorter now then it used to be so they can no longer hide in the outskirts of the battle.

And yes I can see way they are using A2AM rather then the main gun. Because with A2AM you're avoiding dealing friendly fire to anyone. But I bet they would have killed you anyway. Because it's easier to kill some one with the main gun then A2AM. So if they killed you with A2AM they would have killed you with the main gun.

Stop be such a pussy over that you took on too mush and be a man about it.
Indeed, roll up a Waterson VS, you'll see how little you get shot down by A2Am.

[snafus]

So when did you last dogfight in this game then? Back in august last year during beta? Because it damn sounds like it. The lock on range for the A2AM are allot shorter now then it used to be so they can no longer hide in the outskirts of the battle.

And yes I can see way they are using A2AM rather then the main gun. Because with A2AM you're avoiding dealing friendly fire to anyone. But I bet they would have killed you anyway. Because it's easier to kill some one with the main gun then A2AM. So if they killed you with A2AM they would have killed you with the main gun.

Stop be such a pussy over that you took on too mush and be a man about it.

Dude all I do is fly in this dam game. And A2AM used to be far more effective that is not denied. But they are still to user friendly not forcing player skill to use effectively. It is a easy mode weapon provided for poor players to be more effective. And they do not prevent friendly fire they only reduce the chance. They still hit friendly aircraft much to often in my experience as I have been dinged by them to many times. The A2AM is simply the bad players crutch since it doesn't require you to stay on target any longer then a lock on que. You can call me a bitch but at least I earn my kills with a actual skill based weapon.

[Sunrock]

Dude all I do is fly in this dam game. And A2AM used to be far more effective that is not denied. But they are still to user friendly not forcing player skill to use effectively. It is a easy mode weapon provided for poor players to be more effective. And they do not prevent friendly fire they only reduce the chance. They still hit friendly aircraft much to often in my experience as I have been dinged by them to many times. The A2AM is simply the bad players crutch since it doesn't require you to stay on target any longer then a lock on que. You can call me a bitch but at least I earn my kills with a actual skill based weapon.

But the time it takes to stay on your tale and lock on you can use A2A main gun and take out 70% of your ESF HP. While the A2AM only do 35%'ish. Now is it easier to keep you in the circle to get you locked down then it is to hit yuo with the main gun? If you are as skilled pilot as you say you are then it's not easier to lock you on as it is to shoot you down with the main gun.

All I see here is some one QQ'ing over being killed fairly and that is lame and pathetic.

[snafus]

But the time it takes to stay on your tale and lock on you can use A2A main gun and take out 70% of your ESF HP. While the A2AM only do 35%'ish. Now is it easier to keep you in the circle to get you locked down then it is to hit yuo with the main gun? If you are as skilled pilot as you say you are then it's not easier to lock you on as it is to shoot you down with the main gun.

All I see here is some one QQ'ing over being killed fairly and that is lame and pathetic.

Difference is you actually have to aim with a nose gun which bad pilots primarily A2AM pilots can't do. Again it is a crutch for bad pilots and always will be at the rate the game is going. Anyone defending the use of A2AM for dog fighting is a bad pilot plain and simple. And to know a large portion of a server uses them makes me it even more hilarious to me.

[maradine]

Yes. Helios. All aspects. Further thoughts available in the other thread on the topic and in sig.

[Wybie]

I fly on ceres and the flak fire can get pretty bad; I just think it has far to much range, damage drop of should be tweaked so that it is more of a close range deterrent.

As for A2AM, they will never be skillful, if I see another esf using them I know hes an easy kill, i have never come across a good pilot using them, ever. If I had my way anything using a lock on and fire mechanic, would just be removed from the game and replaced with a tow style launcher like in bfbc2. Not to mention it is a selfish tool, as it does not help your team at all; at least lolpodding gives some sort of ground support, however small.

esf is getting an update in June so it'll be interesting to see what they do with dog-fighting. At the moment it really is just a secondary priority for most esfs, and it should be the prime goal.

[Baneblade]

Dude all I do is fly in this dam game. And A2AM used to be far more effective that is not denied. But they are still to user friendly not forcing player skill to use effectively. It is a easy mode weapon provided for poor players to be more effective. And they do not prevent friendly fire they only reduce the chance. They still hit friendly aircraft much to often in my experience as I have been dinged by them to many times. The A2AM is simply the bad players crutch since it doesn't require you to stay on target any longer then a lock on que. You can call me a bitch but at least I earn my kills with a actual skill based weapon.

Hellfire Rocket Pods are weaksauce and for poor players.

[Lonehunter]

Apparently Waterson is the only good Server for Air, considering I too still have fun with my ESF...

Dito

[Whiteagle]

As for A2AM, they will never be skillful, if I see another esf using them I know hes an easy kill, i have never come across a good pilot using them, ever. If I had my way anything using a lock on and fire mechanic, would just be removed from the game and replaced with a tow style launcher like in bfbc2. Not to mention it is a selfish tool, as it does not help your team at all; at least lolpodding gives some sort of ground support, however small.
Yes, because trying to scare off Lolpodders isn't helpful at all...

[Wybie]

A2AM would not scare me of, you would lock, id pop flares and then id take you out and go right back to what ever I was doing

[Sunrock]

Difference is you actually have to aim with a nose gun which bad pilots primarily A2AM pilots can't do. Again it is a crutch for bad pilots and always will be at the rate the game is going. Anyone defending the use of A2AM for dog fighting is a bad pilot plain and simple. And to know a large portion of a server uses them makes me it even more hilarious to me.

You need to aim the A2AM too during the time to get the lock down almost as good as you need to aim the main gun. The only thing is that you don't have to lead the shot. And no, leading the shot in the ESF is easy because of the high velocity of the main gun. Saying it's a crutch for bad pilots makes you come of as a retarded elitist that have no fucking clue about the reality that he suck. Because a good polite can avoid getting locked on by the A2AM as easily as he can avoid getting shot down by the main gun.

However using a A2AM is quite stupid as the TTK is allot higher then the main gun. So I can see way you call pilots that only use A2AM noobs. But it's not a crutch in any way. It's well balanced compared to the main gun.

[Sunrock]

Hellfire Rocket Pods are weaksauce and for poor players.

Well it's a gross exaggeration but yea the rocket pods have been nerfed a bit too mush at least if you compare it to the banshee as air to ground weapon.

With the Rocket Pods you need 4 rockets to direct hit or 16 rockets to do splash damage to kill 1 infantry. The Banshee needs 6 shots to kill an infantry. But the banshee have 800 RPM compared to the rocket pods that have 300 RPM. This makes the TTK for the Banshee allot lower. Then if you take in the ammo capacity into the calculation the Banshee wins by far.

But if you want your mossy to have both good air and ground fighting ability the best choice of weapon setup is still the M18 Rotary for main and the rocket pods for secondary. Because the M18 Rotary TTK on ESF is allot lower then the Banshee as the fire rate is 1500 RPM compared to the 800 RPM of the Banshee.

PS: Using the Tomcat A2AM Pods with a Banshee is a bad setup as well. As the TTK for the A2AM is worse then the Banshee for air to air combat.

[StraitDumpinSMF]

Anyone still having fun flying ESFs? What server are you playing on and what do you do to stay engaged in the game and enjoy yourself?

I play on Connery and I find myself having less success farming noobs and finding a one versus one in the air.

This is partially due to the re-re-roll of the rendering distances. They had it decent for about a week and all the ESF pilots including myself noticed an improvement. A week later and ever since, it's back to ninja flak.

This is also due to less noobs now-a-days, and more certed-out players. Double AA Max arms are one of those things that eventually most people will pick up, but not necessarily spend their initial certs or cash on. The server is all grown up, and most people have a Double Flak Max now. On top of all this flak, there are lots of strikers acting as area deterrents, random max's and skyguards patrolling fields, and outfits of ESFs rolling in wolf packs (http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/247846_10151071708503742_1871118691_n.jpg).

I too have used A2AM like I am sure everyone has here.

Them blanket statements. I've never shot one. Not in Beta, live, test, or VR. Not with a boat, not with a goat.

http://i.imgur.com/Sv4weL2.jpg?1?2590


It takes skill to use A2AM now a days.

You just went full Terran.

[EVILoHOMER]

You could see Aircraft becoming more and more unfun to fly as people moaned about them. The problem wasn't that they were OP, just that the level design in Planetside 2 is shit and still is shit and always will be shit because SOE suck at post release content and will never fix it.

I wouldn't be surprised if most of the team has moved to another project now and Planetside 2 has like only 20 people left working on it.

[Emperor Newt]

Don't fly ESF as flying them in this game feels more like whiggling a soaked wet french fry.
People might enjoy it, I find it unbearable. Gals and Libs are okay, but ESFs are horrible /imho

[PredatorFour]

I'm on Miller and i still have fun in ESF. But then we get to go daddy hunting and try and make him logout.

[CzuukWaterson]

Yep. Lots of fun. And I've only got about 300 certs in the Reaver so far. Flying with a platoon usually helps.

I am in teh process of saving up 10k certs to get her properly fitted. Just for fun really.

[Whiteagle]

You just went full Terran.
He's right man, the A2Am is harder to lock now then any ground launcher...

[Fenrys]

Sometimes it's fun.

The other day, I got my first 5 a2a kills in one life (4 reavers and a 3-crew lib IIRC). The first 2 reavers strayed too far behind their lines and were shot down one at a time over the base I was circling. Ten minutes later, that base flipped and our forces moved on.

Me and one other Scythe pilot encountered 4 Reavers and a Liberator over the next target. We both came in high while the NC were distracted shooting at our advancing armor, and just obliterated the first 2 hoverspamming Reavers we dove on. I think we may have swapped targets a couple times in the dogfight that followed, but in the end we both downed one more reaver each and damaged the Lib (the rocket pods I held back until getting closer to the lib earned me the killing blow).

The fighting was fun for me, but probably less fun for the other team.
The 10 minutes of patrolling an area where we had total air dominance was just cheezey. I picked off a lightning and a handful of infantry at no risk to my aircraft. Maybe a little fun for me, but disastrous to the other side to a degree that may be unhealthy for the game.

This happened early in the morning, and pops were low. G2A was light, pretty much only existing as occasional solo Burster MAX near the spawn room, or a lone AA turret.

[Jax Blake]

LoL, come roll TR on connery and fly against the NC, then come here and tell me how many devil dogs shot you down with their lock ons. I'm not talking a couple pilots as you guys are, I'm talking about 4-6 guys all with lock ons. Snafu often uses the afterburner because it's the only chance he'll ever have of getting away from so many, I enjoy it when they follow him right back into my double burster with extended ammo.

Future Crew (VS ) on the other hand will just flat out murder you with nose guns and magical daltons.

[Whiteagle]

LoL, come roll TR on connery and fly against the NC, then come here and tell me how many devil dogs shot you down with their lock ons. I'm not talking a couple pilots as you guys are, I'm talking about 4-6 guys all with lock ons. Snafu often uses the afterburner because it's the only chance he'll ever have of getting away from so many, I enjoy it when they follow him right back into my double burster with extended ammo.
Ah, that's why he calls them Skill-less, they are actually USING them en-mass on Connery!

[phungus]

Sythe still seems pretty fun on Connery. Spending my time flying with A2Am prowling around as a lone wolf and causing people like Snafu to rage about "skilless weapons" that for some reason take around 100 hours to get decent with and no one seems to use because they find them impractical. At least something good came out of this thread, Snafu's whining got me to go try my sythe's A2Am again and they are pretty fun.

I can't really get into my mosquito anymore though, just seems much more difficult in the hover fights dogfighting has become since everyone has learned to use analog throttle.

[Sunrock]

Ah, that's why he calls them Skill-less, they are actually USING them en-mass on Connery!

Not really. It's because he is a sore looser. Who here would QQ all over the forums if they get killed in a tank by 6 HA lock on with skep launchers? No one. But it's all legit when you fly ESF?! :rolleyes:

[KesTro]

Not really. It's because he is a sore looser. Who here would QQ all over the forums if they get killed in a tank by 6 HA lock on with skep launchers? No one. But it's all legit when you fly ESF?! :rolleyes:

Everyone QQ's about that. I want to like you Sunrock but you come off as really aggressive. SnafU has a point about A2AM being skilless and he's right. But the game needs that skilless weapon for players who aren't pro's in the air to even stand a chance. A good pilot is and always will be better off with the rocket pods to be at maximum efficiency.

There's an extra credits video that touches on a similar topic to this that was linked to be with the great shotgun bitching of March, and here it is:

Extra Credits: Balancing for Skill - YouTube

[phungus]

Everyone QQ's about that. I want to like you Sunrock but you come off as really aggressive. SnafU has a point about A2AM being skilless and he's right. But the game needs that skilless weapon for players who aren't pro's in the air to even stand a chance. A good pilot is and always will be better off with the rocket pods to be at maximum efficiency.

There's an extra credits video that touches on a similar topic to this that was linked to be with the great shotgun bitching of March, and here it is:

Extra Credits: Balancing for Skill - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EitZRLt2G3w)

A2Am don't work like that, takes forever to learn how to use them effectively. They are much more noob unfriendly then rocket pods, which are ready to go for a newbie out of the box.

I think A2Am should be an easy to use weapon for newer pilots, but that's just not how they work. They do let people like me who are more in the 80 percentile range in SPM be much, much more effective at A2A, puts people like me more on an even level with those who have impeccable aim (like Snafu, which is really Snafu's strength as the guy doesn't seem to miss), but don't for a minute think a new pilot is going to grab A2Am and do anything but get slaughtered. I think that's what Snafu means by skillless, as A2Am severely level out the playing field in the A2A game at the top end, and they also are uselss for good players with near perfect aim so players like Snafu have no use for them which from his perspective probably only adds insult to injury.

[KesTro]

I think that's what Snafu means by skillless, as A2Am severely level out the playing field in the A2A game at the top end, and they also are uselss for good players with near perfect aim so players like Snafu have no use for them which from his perspective probably only adds insult to injury.

And that is exactly my point, it levels the playing field.

[Sunrock]

Everyone QQ's about that. I want to like you Sunrock but you come off as really aggressive. SnafU has a point about A2AM being skilless and he's right. But the game needs that skilless weapon for players who aren't pro's in the air to even stand a chance. A good pilot is and always will be better off with the rocket pods to be at maximum efficiency.

There's an extra credits video that touches on a similar topic to this that was linked to be with the great shotgun bitching of March, and here it is:

Extra Credits: Balancing for Skill - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EitZRLt2G3w)

Well complain about dying in any game for any legit kill, that is no cheat was used, are for cry babies and noobs. Pointing out that something is unbalanced is an other thing but using the argument that some one can kill you with weapon A easily is not an argument for balance thats just a complaint for e-brat noobs. Thats what all the CoD kids too. If you want to argue balance you need to compare weapon A to weapon B and stick with the statistics and examples of it's use.

Now if we look at the statistics of the A2AM it's balanced. It is a little bit easier to aim but still need some basic skill to use on the other hand has higher TTK then any of the main ESF guns.

Now when some one complains that 6 players gang up on him using a powerful tactic it's not because the game is unbalanced but because he put himself in that position.

PS: Yes I know I can come off as a bit aggressive to sensitive people. But In reality I just don't bather to scourger coat things to avoid hurting some ones feelings. I give it strait up as that is usually most effective to get the point across. I just assume we are all hardens warriors here and not some girlie girls, or are we?

[snafus]

Well complain about dying in any game for any legit kill, that is no cheat was used, are for cry babies and noobs. Pointing out that something is unbalanced is an other thing but using the argument that some one can kill you with weapon A easily is not an argument for balance thats just a complaint for e-brat noobs. Thats what all the CoD kids too. If you want to argue balance you need to compare weapon A to weapon B and stick with the statistics and examples of it's use.

Now if we look at the statistics of the A2AM it's balanced. It is a little bit easier to aim but still need some basic skill to use on the other hand has higher TTK then any of the main ESF guns.

Now when some one complains that 6 players gang up on him using a powerful tactic it's not because the game is unbalanced but because he put himself in that position.

PS: Yes I know I can come off as a bit aggressive to sensitive people. But In reality I just don't bather to scourger coat things to avoid hurting some ones feelings. I give it strait up as that is usually most effective to get the point across. I just assume we are all hardens warriors here and not some girlie girls, or are we?

Sunrock I have very few deaths related to the A2AM. Getting killed by them is not so much the problem as my main issue is they more or less ruin any fun air engagements. It's the same scenario with G2A launchers as they don't get tons of kills. But put every pilot with a lock on tone on the defensive or run home mode. What my main complaint as kestro made more clear is it closes the skill gap required to be useful in the air. Now as Phungus also said to be really lethal with the A2AM the pilot needs to know when to fire during a fight to be most effective. And that part can hold truth during a 1V1 maybe, but not during a larger dogfight.

My "bitching " comes from giving players a weapon system that requires the minimal skill to make a large impact on a dogfight. He may have something that can be easily avoided and sometimes unreliant. But it becomes much, much harder to avoid once already engaged in a dogfight against a good pilot. It changes the dynamic of the fight by forcing the enemy pilot to now avoid that missile damage. I am totally fine with being beaten by enemy players who out fly me and gun my ass down. But when a BR 1 can buy these launchers and just hover outside a dogfight spamming missiles it levels that field a wee bit to much.

Is it to much to ask that players have to at least keep the enemy aircraft within the reticule during the missile flight? Make pilots who want to be A2AM ESF require some kind of ability to be effective. I love flying in this game man and the skill level to be really success full with it has kept me in the game. But It really bothers me to see people so strongly support a feature that strips away a lot of that skill. Maybe I'm being an Elitist ass hole? But I would rather be that D-bag then sit back and watch a game I love slowly turn into a mindless Window licker friendly environment with auto tracking weapons at every corner.

[Fenrys]

And that is exactly my point, it levels the playing field.

You need to invest a lot of certs into A2A missiles range and lock on time. There are probably more fun things to spend certs on if you think you're bad at flying.

[snafus]

You need to invest a lot of certs into A2A missiles range and lock on time. There are probably more fun things to spend certs on if you think you're bad at flying.

Certing into the upgrades will improve them but even at stock they serve a purpose of giving you a easy mode weapon. If an enemy ESF is predisposed in a dogfight all you have to do is line him up and wait for the beep. Even if your missiles are loosed or not that pilots behavior goes into a more defensive one due to him combating the lock on. People get so focused effectiveness based on lethality. When that simply lock on can everything you need to turn a fight.