Three long overlooked problems with this game.

[wasdie]

Ok this ended up being a longer read than I wanted it to be, tl;dr is on the bottom.

All of us here know that the game still lacks that major feeling of progression that Planetside 1 had. The lattice has been a solid step forward in the right direction to bringing back the real feeling of progression but there are many mechanics in game right now that constantly hold back any major steps the devs take. Those two are the squad deploy beacon and the "reinforcements needed" selection on the spawn. Until these two are addressed, any further improvements to this game will not have the affect they could.

First let's talk the squad beacon. The idea on paper is great. Working together in this game isn't always easy. Moving your squad from point A to point B can be a real challenge. The squad beacon is a really good tool for bringing in reinforcements on top of you and reorganizing the squad. For a team based game this is a very useful feature, however its implementation has far reaching consequences that can be felt in every single battle.

The problem with the squad beacon isn't the idea, it's the execution. The squad beacon allows a steady trickle of enemy soldiers to be dropped from the heavens, by passing defenses and generally mucking up the front line. A large battle sees a constant stream of drop pods falling all over the place. This ensures that no front line can ever really be established and those fighting on the ground can never truly feel like they are in control of even a small section of the battlefield, thus eating away at any feeling of progression a fight may have. The constant raining of drop pods on both sides of a fight pretty much guarantee every large battle will feel like an unorganized TDM until one side clearly outnumbers another.

Squad beacons are used to drop pod soldiers on top of AMS sunderers to bypass all ground defenses and blow them up in a large kamikaze attack summoned from the skies. Squad beacons are also used to drop all types of soldiers within a base that is supposed to be defended, giving attackers easy access to the rear of defenders. Anybody who defends a base for more than 20 minutes knows how fatiguing it is constantly being rained on by drop pods never being able to establish a real solid defense.

Another thing squad beacons do is ignore logistics. All too often I see a steel rain of droppods land within the confines of what should be a defended base because a squad beacon was placed within. I've seen large groups of soldiers able to basically teleport between bases or across the map ignoring all logistics simply by utilizing squad beacons which plays hell on defenders and the general flow of battle.

All of this defense bypassing and logistics skipping ruins any sort of progression you may have in a battle. Instead of knowing where the enemy is and where they are coming from, you now have to consider 360 degrees of security despite the territory control, placement of AMSs, placement of static defense, armor pushes, or anything else by players because at any time a magic drop pod can land behind you and lay waste to you, your vehicle, or your AMS.

People complain about poorly defendable bases and this is a key factor to why the current bases are a nightmare to defend. All but the biolab which has squad spawn beacon immunity.

The whole "squad deploy" functionality acts pretty much the same only it's not as precise. It does contribute to the constant trickle of attackers and defenders littering the area generally messing up any potential front line.

Another major problem with this game is the whole "reinforcements needed" selection on the spawn screen. This is simply a way for large amounts of people to bypass logistics so they can get to a fight faster. Again, the idea is great. People don't like waiting to get into a fight and this was a way to help direct people from empty territories to larger battles. However the consequences have become severe. You can go from a defense of 1-12 players to 48+ in a matter of seconds without any indication that the enemy has been reinforced and no way to stop it. As an attacker this is extremely frustrating and it hurts the small squad ops by allowing a potentially well executed attack to be simply outzerged with no warning.

Adding to that "reinforcements needed" problem is the blatantly broken redeploy system. Either hitting redeploy or /suicide allows you to teleport to any spawn within a several hundred meter radius. This, like the other systems, allows for you to completely bypass logistics and decreases the need to better defend your existing spawn points or actually fight over territory for more control over the territory.

The problem with all 3 of these features is they bypass logistics. Many would argue that these are necessary evils to make it much easier for solo players and casual players to get into a fight and stay into a fight. However, when looking at this game from a more meta-game side of things these system play against the natural feeling of progression we got in Planetside 1.

The large scale meta game would benefit greatly by reducing the amount of ways a player can knowingly bypass logistics to get to a fight.

Quick and dirty fixes would include removing the reinforcements needed spawns from the list, preventing a player from deploying out of their current hex (with exception of being able to redeploy to their current spawn point), and implementing a HART like limitation on where drop pods can fall.

More elaborate possible solutions include shields over a base to prevent drop pods from falling into it, some sort of an anti-drop pod weapon system that is powered by a new base generator, and the whole "binding" system from Planetside 1 for spawns.

Either way I figured I would make this really long post about something I see that has been hurting the core of this game since before launch.

tl;dr Squad spawn beacons, squad deploy, "reinforcements needed" and the redeploy and spawn system are all working against the flow of battle, the progression of each fight, and the overall metagame. All further additions/changes to this game will continue to be hindered by these systems until they are adjusted.

[maradine]

I think being able to set up a drop behind the lines or inside a well-defended base is a virtuous concept. I think bacon should be visible from much further, however, and possibly with directional cues on the minimap.

[bpostal]

*cough*SOI (http://wiki.planetsidesyndicate.com/index.php?title=Sphere_of_Influence)*cough*

[RSphil]

simple answer to the spawn beacon problem, destroy them. i see many allies running past them and not noticing them. i saw 5-6 people go but an enemy beacon only a few days ago, i saw it and immediately went and destroyed it. the beacon is the problem its the players most of the time. to stupid to destroy spawn emplacements like beacons or sundys.

[Rivenshield]

*cough*SOI (http://wiki.planetsidesyndicate.com/index.php?title=Sphere_of_Influence)*cough*

They were *going* to have SOI. Higby talked enthusiastically during beta about dynamic SOI that would get bigger or shrink the more adjacent hexes you owned. I wonder how and why that fell by the wayside.... or if we can get it back, dynamic or not.

Getting the lattice blew my mind. I thought that was impossible. So now anything's up for grabs.

[wasdie]

simple answer to the spawn beacon problem, destroy them. i see many allies running past them and not noticing them. i saw 5-6 people go but an enemy beacon only a few days ago, i saw it and immediately went and destroyed it. the beacon is the problem its the players most of the time. to stupid to destroy spawn emplacements like beacons or sundys.

Sounds simple enough, but they only have be active for a few seconds for people to drop in. They can also be placed in a lot of really odd places that make them very difficult to get at.

The whole idea that you have this slightly controllable drop pod that falls vertically is the real issue. It bypasses defenses, can be used offensively against AMSs and other entrenched positions, and just generally mucks up the whole fight keeping it one large cluster until one side has a numbers advantage.

Instant action has a similar issue but it's far more random where you'll drop and a simple SOI could eliminate that issue.

[RSphil]

well in my experience they are not hard to see, the big tron like glow up to the sky lol. alot can be got at but i agree with the dropping on vehicles bit. they should do damage imo. other then that a few organized people can wipe out drop podded troops as they dont load straight away. i have killed many from pods as they stand there, such fun. there will always be problems in a game such a this and there will be no easy solution. the best solution to 99% of problems tbh is communication and team work. which sadly i see little of.

[bpostal]

I've had issues where the squad beacon isn't showing up on my screen, even when other people standing next to me can see it.
Also, don't forget about squad deploy. Much longer timer sure, but it has the same functionality as the beacons.

And hey, who knows? Maybe we'll get the SOI and it'll help.

[Dougnifico]

The becon should be bigger to make it easier to kill (think BF3). The territory with reinforcements needed should be removed from the list once even population is achieved. Redeply is fine in my opinion. Perhaps they could have a system that makes it so that it can't be used for like 2 minutes in a new attack.

[Gatekeeper]

Beacons not displaying properly, especially in big fights, is a problem - but other than that I'm happy with how they work.

Squads placing beacons in hard-to-reach places and dropping in reinforcements, while other squads try to locate and neutralise those beacons makes for a nice sub-game and helps to keep battles varied and interesting.

That said, I'm not keen on instant action or squad deploy allowing people to drop-pod in - IMO you should always require a beacon (or some other visible/counterable mechanic) in order to enable drop-pods. That way the other factions can always do something to counter/prevent reinforcements dropping in.

As for reinforcement/deployment mechanics in general - they're definitely needed for lone-wolf/casual/small-squad play. I'd have no objection to overhauling them to make them fit better with logistics/meta-game - but unless someone can come up with a clever way of doing that without just outright nerfing them, I think we'll have to stick with the current system for now.

[Rolfski]

I do agree that logistics vs battle flow is though to balance but the single feature that made me never go beyond trial when PS1 was launched was logistics.
I hated the absurd amount of down-time you had to put up with and I hated the downtime at the Sanctuary because of HART even more. In that game it felt that I was travelling all the time to get to a fight, only to get shot in the face.

So yes, there are absolutely battle flow problems with the insane amount of possibilities you have to flank any defenders but if anything, rebalancing logistics should not result in adding unnecessary down time.

[Qwan]

Hmm Im not seeing a problem with the spawn beacon that we have currently, from my point of view there are two ways to drop into a base that you are defending or attacking. There is squad deploy (requires no beacon) and puts you close to the squad leader. Then there is the squad beacon that is put down by the squad leader. Each has a cool down and I use often when it comes to keeping the heat up on the attackers or defenders. To better help with this I think they should make the squad deploy drop you outside the bases SOI, but the squad beacon should allow squad members to drop within the SOI close or on the beacon. I mean I dont see an issue with this, I mean defending a base is just that defending a base. Is there a way to completely secure a base no, and all I can say is welcome to PS2 :doh:. With the beacon defenders just have to get to it and take it out. With squad deploy its just the last of the rif raf trying to take or resecure a base. I currently think they should keep the current system, but tweek it just a little.

[Assist]

I think bacon should be visible from much further, however, and possibly with directional cues on the minimap.

Agreed, Bacon is something everyone should be able to see. If this game had some sort of smell emitter we wouldn't need directional cues, but I'll settle for directional cues if it helps me find the bacon when it's only 5 ft away.

[moosepoop]

that "professionalism" feeling is immersion and tension, from slower paced gameplay.

[wasdie]

Hmm Im not seeing a problem with the spawn beacon that we have currently, from my point of view there are two ways to drop into a base that you are defending or attacking. There is squad deploy (requires no beacon) and puts you close to the squad leader. Then there is the squad beacon that is put down by the squad leader. Each has a cool down and I use often when it comes to keeping the heat up on the attackers or defenders. To better help with this I think they should make the squad deploy drop you outside the bases SOI, but the squad beacon should allow squad members to drop within the SOI close or on the beacon. I mean I dont see an issue with this, I mean defending a base is just that defending a base. Is there a way to completely secure a base no, and all I can say is welcome to PS2 :doh:. With the beacon defenders just have to get to it and take it out. With squad deploy its just the last of the rif raf trying to take or resecure a base. I currently think they should keep the current system, but tweek it just a little.

The problem with this line of reasoning is that it makes base defenses useless. You're calling for the defenders to actually leave their battlements and entrenched positions to fight OR be forced to constantly have people dropping behind all of their defenses. That begs the question why we have bases at all.

Right now defending a base is just fatiguing. It's far too active and it's lead to all sorts of problems with the meta game. Each battle right now is too chaotic and lacks the flow which was an essential part of Planetside 1's gameplay which is sorely missing from this game thanks to these kind of mechanics.

The current system doesn't promote territory control as well as it should which lessens the point of why we have a lattice system and eventually continental locking. There needs to be a better front line aspect and having defenders leaving their defense and attackers bypassing defenses is not helping.

Others have suggested a SOI but I still don't know if this is enough given the ability to steer your drop pod with near pinpoint accuracy.

[Hmr85]

Put back in the SOI and put some AI controlled AA drop pod guns on top of Primary facility's. I would link them to a Generator that's in the middle of the base and hard to get to. Any drop pods that come down in the middle of the SOI would be shot out of the sky.

If the enemy wants to drop into the base they would have to destroy the generator that hidden in the middle of it in a very defensive location. This would solve the problem IMO.

[wasdie]

Put back in the SOI and put some AI controlled AA drop pod guns on top of Primary facility's. I would link them to a Generator that's in the middle of the base and hard to get to. Any drop pods that come down in the middle of the SOI would be shot out of the sky.

If the enemy wants to drop into the base they would have to destroy the generator that hidden in the middle of it in a very defensive location. This would solve the problem IMO.

"solve" is a strong word but it's definitely a great mechanic to counter it.

However it would be boring getting shot up by base AA. I think that the "Squad deploy" should always drop you outside of the SOI as well as the instant action. The squad beacon can drop you anywhere at your own risk.

[Hmr85]

"solve" is a strong word but it's definitely a great mechanic to counter it.

However it would be boring getting shot up by base AA. I think that the "Squad deploy" should always drop you outside of the SOI as well as the instant action. The squad beacon can drop you anywhere at your own risk.

Maybe so, but don't drop inside the base till the generator is down. Its enforcing the SOI and giving "small Spec op groups" a goal to go after at the same time. I really don't see anything wrong with it tbh.

Just throwing out ideas.

[Qwan]

The problem with this line of reasoning is that it makes base defenses useless. You're calling for the defenders to actually leave their battlements and entrenched positions to fight OR be forced to constantly have people dropping behind all of their defenses. That begs the question why we have bases at all.

Right now defending a base is just fatiguing. It's far too active and it's lead to all sorts of problems with the meta game. Each battle right now is too chaotic and lacks the flow which was an essential part of Planetside 1's gameplay which is sorely missing from this game thanks to these kind of mechanics.

The current system doesn't promote territory control as well as it should which lessens the point of why we have a lattice system and eventually continental locking. There needs to be a better front line aspect and having defenders leaving their defense and attackers bypassing defenses is not helping.

Others have suggested a SOI but I still don't know if this is enough given the ability to steer your drop pod with near pinpoint accuracy.

I feel ya wasbie but you have to be ready to leave you confert zone to keep your base secured. As long as there is still enemy in the area, you really cant call it secure, once that last sundy or man/women is gone there will be no more spawn beacons and no more squad deploys. Now the next phase begins (on indar) breaking the link, which will stop jerks from back hacking. On Esimir and Amerish, I could see your issue being a problem, no lattice, back hacking becomes a issue. But to be honest there really is no way to secure a base unless you break the link connecting the enemy to the base. The squad spawn beacon is a tool that we have to deal with when defending a base. If I see a bright red or blue line shooting in the sky I make it a point to get to it and take it out. Now the squad deploy used from the main map is different, its cool down is like 4 min, not a lot you can do about that either.

I mean to me the beacon and squad deploy are just a tactic, If i can get a beacon up close you your base, I immediatly tell my squad to use it to get behind enemy position. I also tell them to use squad deploy to do the same. So when you say defending a base is impossible because of these tactics, its hard to swollow because is there is a sundy or a link, or a squad leader still running around your area it really not secured.

[Dodgy Commando]

I don't have a problem with drop pods. It can be countered by destroying the beacon, stopping an attack just as fast as it started. Drop pods are pretty obvious too, it's quite possible to get the jump on an enemy who has just landed. It is also a big give away that there may be a beacon in the area to go destroy.

The only issue I have here is that beacons can indeed be placed in areas that are difficult to reach. Perhaps tuning this down a bit (flat surfaces only; beyond a certain angle it won't deploy; create no deploy areas for antennas, rocky spires and the like) and increasing the range at which it is visible (or not, considering what I have just mentioned) could help.

There is also the possibility of the SOI system like in PS1 to prevent excessive dropping on top of a facility, but the whole concept of drop pods is to bypass enemy lines. However, the idea of the SOI being controlled by a generator or similar objective could be an interesting alternative to the arbitrary no-deploy zone, if such a feature were implemented.

I'm not against drop pods in PS2, although it can be a bit cheap at times. A possible fine tuning could help, but I think they fit in pretty well. I certainly don't find them game-breaking.

I'm not sure I agree with your view on reinforcements, though I don't often play small squad ops. Don't forget the system works both ways and also tries to provide a good fight for everyone. Too bad if your small ops fail as a result of overwhelming numbers. The point is to face enemy opposition, surely? Its been retuned several times; maybe it needs some more work to reach the best balance so as to not over-reinforce one side in a matter of seconds.

As for Redeploy, I would tend to disagree from experience. It doesn't allow you to skip the enemy frontline like drop pods. Whether being able to redeploy a few hundred metres instantly is good for the game in any other aspect, I'm not sure. Its pretty good for hasty defence I suppose, but I get annoyed that sometimes I can't redeply somewhere I want to, even if it appears to be within range.

[wasdie]

I mean to me the beacon and squad deploy are just a tactic, If i can get a beacon up close you your base, I immediatly tell my squad to use it to get behind enemy position. I also tell them to use squad deploy to do the same. So when you say defending a base is impossible because of these tactics, its hard to swollow because is there is a sundy or a link, or a squad leader still running around your area it really not secured.

But that's a terrible tactic. Why have base defense at all? It ruins any flow of battle and is just not fun to defend againt in the long run and is a major reason why people hate the bases in this game. You cannot defend against people drop podding behind you or on your flanks constantly.

In Planetside 1 we had to find the AMS and destroy it, which was fine, but the counter-attack didn't require the defenders to risk having people constantly drop behind the line from magical drop pods that could drop them right into their base. At the worst you had a galaxy drop people behind the line or your back door hacked. Right now you can't even have an active defense because leaving your battlements means the enemy can easily get right into your base.

This tactic is bad game design and is really hurting the flow of battle which has a direct impact in the overall metagame.

[wasdie]

There is also the possibility of the SOI system like in PS1 to prevent excessive dropping on top of a facility, but the whole concept of drop pods is to bypass enemy lines. However, the idea of the SOI being controlled by a generator or similar objective could be an interesting alternative to the arbitrary no-deploy zone, if such a feature were implemented.

I know that's a squad beacon's whole point and I'm disagreeing with that entire tactic and philosophy. It renders base defenses useless and frustrating and puts less emphasis on coordinated pushes and more emphasis on whack-a-mole by finding the beacons placed throughout your base while constantly fighting troops falling from the sky with no real counter other than to find the beacon. Of course you also have to deal with the squad deploys too.

On paper it sounds great but in practice it's extremely frustrating and ruins what could be excellent battles with emphasis on zones of control and terrain control.

[Goliith]

I dont't hate Squad Beacons as much as I hate Squad Deploy, but the beacon needs to be larger, or at the very least have a larger hit box, as you need to be RIGHT on top of it to hit it many times, and often the beacon itself doesn't render, only the beam of light will.

Squad deploy is the meat and potatoes of evil strategy IMHO.

The other night I was in an Outfit platoon, and what we were doing is the 4 Squad leaders get into Racer chassis Mossies, and head towards where ever we want to control. Enroute all 44 other members of the platoon hit 'Redeploy' to be on the spawn menu without the counter.

THE SECOND the Squad leaders get to the location, all 44 members of the Platoon hit Squad deploy and you now have 44 coordinated players on the roof/s of your base.

We did that for about 2 hours+ and only ever failed to immediately overrun the facility if there was already a larger emplacement of enemy troops ready to counter it.

Was it fun? For us, yes it was awesome. If I were a defender of an assault like that however, I probably would have just left the continent or logged off because its a nigh unstoppable assault of raining manpower that can control their target location of landing.

Reinforcements needed isn't as terrible as at least you appear in the respawn room of your location, but I feel that any redeploy respawn should have a 15-35second respawn timer at minimum to slow down how quickly the zerg can surge across the map.

Perhaps a dynamic 'Reinforcements Needed' respawn mechanic? The higher the presence of your empire in a 'Reinforcements Needed' location, the longer the redeploy timer?

Ex. You hold the crown, but are being sieged there, Your empire population is 18% while the the enemy population is 72% with 10% of third faction. In this example your redeploy timer would be what it is now as default.

Now then, Many people reploy for reinforcements and the population swings to be 58% Your faction, 42% attackers and the third faction have entirely pulled out. In this situation, defenders are nearly as necessary, so the respawn timer would be in the 20-50second range *ONLY FOR PEOPLE 'REINFORCING'* Normal in base respawns would remain as they are.

[Lucidius]

"Just destroy the beacon"

That's as simple as:

1) Get in render distance of the beacon (which isn't very large)
2) Killing the current squad leader
3) killing the entire squad before the current squad leader can pass it off to some one else (Kill potentially 11 other people within 10-20 seconds)
4) Kill the beacon before any of those people you just killed respawn

I mean, i'm alright but that's a pretty tall order.especially when you're considering the implications with platoons. Doing that 4 times in a row consistantly? And even if you do do all of that. The squad leader can just ride an ESF over as la and jump onto your roof, crap out another one and they're all back again? AND they get to pick where they spawn in the base?

Why do attackers get to spawn where they want and on top of things they can't normally get to and defenders are stuck in the one predictable spawn? In the case of sunderers, why can you spawn on the enemies spawn and destroy it by yourself? I can't think of a single game where you can spawn in the enemies spawn and spawn camp them.

[wasdie]

Why do attackers get to spawn where they want and on top of things they can't normally get to and defenders are stuck in the one predictable spawn? In the case of sunderers, why can you spawn on the enemies spawn and destroy it by yourself? I can't think of a single game where you can spawn in the enemies spawn and spawn camp them.

I see generators go down in facilities all of the time because of a squad beacon placed near it.

This is just as bad as the ability to deploy an AMS next to a capture point. Makes no logical sense at all.

[Zadexin]

Squad beacon is pretty good imo. Although I think it should cost infantry resources to both PLACE AND USE. Why do we get all these free drop pods? It should cost a few dozen infantry resources to be able to pod in. Also the crap like placing beacons INSIDE spawn rooms and pain tubes needs to go away IMMEDIATELY! That is a clear bug that needs to be fixed.

IMO the real problem is with squad deploy. Instead of drop podding onto your squad leaders head it should just spawn you from the closest friendly spawn point. You should still be within a hex or a lattice node away. Then you can at least pull a vehicle that may help out in the battle.

Lastly, I suggested this before, there should be some kind of deployable item called a 'Spawn Jammer". Something that you can buy and put out that creates a small bubble where no enemy can spawn. Similar to the AMS bubble effect. And have it follow the same placement rules as spawn beacons. This creates a defensive front line that the OP was talking about. It also makes another objective for attackers to seek and destroy, something that I think this game sorely needs. Less camping spawns, more blowing stuff up.

[SerethiX]

Lastly, I suggested this before, there should be some kind of deployable item called a 'Spawn Jammer". Something that you can buy and put out that creates a small bubble where no enemy can spawn. Similar to the AMS bubble effect. And have it follow the same placement rules as spawn beacons. This creates a defensive front line that the OP was talking about. It also makes another objective for attackers to seek and destroy, something that I think this game sorely needs. Less camping spawns, more blowing stuff up.

That's how I like my eggs!

The spawn jammer should be limited 1 per hex or base, prevent sundys from letting people join in a skill able range and make the drop pods move to the outer border of it.

Really nice idea!

SerethiX - www.serethi.de

[Redshift]

We need an SOI, even if it just covers the base, it's so bloody annoying to constantly get hammered from behind by droppers on the roof.

Controling the roof is a big deal in several base types, you should need to gal in to do that rather than just droppod on it

[bpostal]

...you should need to gal in to do that rather than just droppod on it

I think this right here is the main issue with the under utilization of the Galaxy in PS2. You previously needed a galaxy to gain any kind of coordinated vertical advantage such as dropping on a roof, now you just need to get one guy close enough to the drop zone.
I know the Sunderer already has too many roles for it to be utilized as simple gun truck but it's really the only vehicle I can see being used as an electronic warfare vehicle. Slap that 'SOI Generator' that somebody was talking about earlier in the thread onto a bang bus instead of ammo or whatever and have it toss up a few hundred meters of SOI.
The more I think about it, the more it seems a natural pairing with the AMS. Sure, now people can't drop on your shit but you'll be throwing up a huge signal flare to anyone who can look at the map "Here's my bus!"

[Malorn]

The flow problems that drop pods and reinforcements needed create have not gone unnoticed. I'm looking into changes in these areas to address these problems but cannot provide details or ETAs.

Please keep providing feedback! We do pay attention to your posts, even though we may not reply to most of them.

[camycamera]

^ there we go, we got an acknowledgement from a dev! now we only need an acknowledgement from them regarding the terrible base design....

[wasdie]

The flow problems that drop pods and reinforcements needed create have not gone unnoticed. I'm looking into changes in these areas to address these problems but cannot provide details or ETAs.

Please keep providing feedback! We do pay attention to your posts, even though we may not reply to most of them.

Well that's excellent to hear.

[basti]

I think this right here is the main issue with the under utilization of the Galaxy in PS2. You previously needed a galaxy to gain any kind of coordinated vertical advantage such as dropping on a roof, now you just need to get one guy close enough to the drop zone.
I know the Sunderer already has too many roles for it to be utilized as simple gun truck but it's really the only vehicle I can see being used as an electronic warfare vehicle. Slap that 'SOI Generator' that somebody was talking about earlier in the thread onto a bang bus instead of ammo or whatever and have it toss up a few hundred meters of SOI.
The more I think about it, the more it seems a natural pairing with the AMS. Sure, now people can't drop on your shit but you'll be throwing up a huge signal flare to anyone who can look at the map "Here's my bus!"


I would rather have a new vehicle for that stuff. The ANT pretty much.

Assuming NTU makes it back for the resource overhaul (OHGOD PLEASE PLEASE), and the ANT comes along, it needs a few roles more than just being a truck for nanites. A support vehicle that does new stuff like SOIs that prevent drop pods from entering, mobile jump pad, Huge huge radar or other stuff would propably do good. Pretty much support abilitys on a much lighter armored vehicle. Sundys need to be right in the action for its support functions like AMS, repair, rearm etc. ANTs could be the guys behind the action, provoding new ways of support.

[Dodgy Commando]

Section 8 had a pretty good take on the ability to spawn literally anywhere on the map. It was countered by AA mainly, similar to what has already been mentioned here.

But I reckon such a concept would require a great deal of work. SOI feels more Planetside (whether ANT/Generator/whatever else may be suggested). It could definitely add an extra layer to battles with seek & destroy hopping between the defense and offense.

I have to say I haven't experienced the same frustrations as others have mentioned here, which is probably why I wasn't in agreement on a lot of points. I still think its an interesting tactic, which can indeed be quite overpowering by its very nature of course.

I still don't think we should do away with drop pods altogether, though.

It clearly exarcerbates population differences quickly, hence the problems. If organised teams secured roofs/CY against hot drops, the rest of the defenders could concentrate on pushing back the enemy. In an ideal world :)

[ringring]

I've often thought that one way to make the gal more useful would be by increasing the impact of a violent and sudden insertion of troops and the way to do that is to make a resecure hack move faster that a capture hack.

[Qwan]

But that's a terrible tactic. Why have base defense at all? It ruins any flow of battle and is just not fun to defend againt in the long run and is a major reason why people hate the bases in this game. You cannot defend against people drop podding behind you or on your flanks constantly.

In Planetside 1 we had to find the AMS and destroy it, which was fine, but the counter-attack didn't require the defenders to risk having people constantly drop behind the line from magical drop pods that could drop them right into their base. At the worst you had a galaxy drop people behind the line or your back door hacked. Right now you can't even have an active defense because leaving your battlements means the enemy can easily get right into your base.

This tactic is bad game design and is really hurting the flow of battle which has a direct impact in the overall metagame.

On that note, you have to push out, break that link so to say to prevent enemies from hacking your position. Now thanks to the lattice system, I mean once a base is secure, you can push on to the next base, their by taking away the enemies ability to hack the base you just took. Now during the initial defence yea the enemy can get behind you, but you have to take the fight to them, you see the link that they have, you have to take that away from them. Once a hack is started from there link they can no longer hack the base that there dropping on to.

[wasdie]

On that note, you have to push out, break that link so to say to prevent enemies from hacking your position. Now thanks to the lattice system, I mean once a base is secure, you can push on to the next base, their by taking away the enemies ability to hack the base you just took. Now during the initial defence yea the enemy can get behind you, but you have to take the fight to them, you see the link that they have, you have to take that away from them. Once a hack is started from there link they can no longer hack the base that there dropping on to.

This is of course a useful tactic but it can be constantly shut down by a constant drop of spawn deploy or squad beacon launched drop pods behind your line onto your connected lattice facility. You have to leave a lot of people on guard duty if you want to make a push because a single drop pod could halt an entire attack.

It's not a good mechanic when you're looking at overall flow of this game. A squad shouldn't be dropping one guy behind the line with an ESF or running around as an infiltrator and then be able to summon their entire squad from all over the map to them via the squad beacon or the squad deploy. They should utilize a galaxy for that. There is a reason galaxies hold 12 people.

Right now the galaxy is kind of a bust thanks to these other mechanics.

In a more Planetside like world a platoon would utilize a mixture of gal drops and AMSs to move up, not just fly some ESFs in and drop a squad beacon or get a squad deploy on the hex like they do now. The galaxies would drop the initial attack where they could get a jump on a lightly defended base while the sunderers make a push from a connected facility and set up. The gal dropped soldiers would then have to hold what they have until reinforcements arrive. Right now they can continue to spawn their own reinforcements and overwhelm a lightly defended base without having to worry about logistics in the slightest.

[Lucidius]

An example: We were taking over zurvan amp station. The defenders successfully blew up all of our spawn logistics. With that they could have picked us off and gained control of the bases interior. Instead, everyone in the squad just squad deployed back into the base and we overwhelmed the defenders.

^ This is a good tactic because what was the point of defending the sunderer or the squad beacon?

[NewSith]

The flow problems that drop pods and reinforcements needed create have not gone unnoticed. I'm looking into changes in these areas to address these problems but cannot provide details or ETAs.

Please keep providing feedback! We do pay attention to your posts, even though we may not reply to most of them.

Did anyone even consider the downside of removing the thing now? I bet 100 steady bucks on that if it's done, there's gonna be way less defending again. On the Lattice this time.

[Ralek]

OP talks about logistics a lot - beacons and squad deploy are exactly that - logistic tools. There are obviously a few issues with them though.

Squad deploy was broken a few updates back. You used to not be able to squad deploy on dead squad leaders, but now you can, meaning after you kill a squad you have to wait for their bodies to spawn somewhere to be sure area is clear.

The squad beacon mechanics actually work surprisingly well. It's not that hard to keep an eye out for them and it adds a layer for organized small outfits to be helpful on large fights, by using them or denying them to the enemy. The rendering issue on the beacons could use fixing and I'd add a timer (15s ?) before a deployed beacon goes "active" to give the defenders a window to kill it before it can be used.

The major problem with dropping right now, IMO, are not the beacons or squad deploy - its the actual drop pods themselves and the rendering mechanics. You can have a full squad waiting in a circle around the drop pod location and the dropper will still have around 2s free reign before it renders, making ANY sundy within drop range DOA for any organized group.

I'd suggest the following changes:
- Whenever a drop pod lands, put a ping on the minimap, similar to an infil dart pulse, only in empire colors
- Make the drop pods land with their landing doors closed, have the dropper render inside and then slowly (2s ?) open the doors. The drop pod should be vunerable during this period - I'd make it armored (immune to small arms) and take slightly more than a default launcher hit to kill.

[Wahooo]

It clearly exarcerbates population differences quickly, hence the problems. If organised teams secured roofs/CY against hot drops, the rest of the defenders could concentrate on pushing back the enemy. In an ideal world :)

This actually highlights a LOT of the expectations people have for OTHER people doing certain jobs, like defending meaningless outposts pre-lattice. Like AA duty. AMP station/Techplant roof duty.

If you are doing the job right basically you get a few minutes of action and then nothing. Which is of course why these jobs are always suggested for others to do. Because they get boring as fuck very quickly, but then as soon as you ignore it to go play the game like everyone else gets to a handful of drop podders come in and next thing you know all of the defenders focused on the the attackers out THERE suddenly are hosed by the attackers behind them.

when this thread started I was tending to disagree with the premises of spawn beacons and squad deploy being bad. I like them, I use them, they are fun/useful. But the more I thought about it MY perspective was based on comparing the current mechanic to the drop pod deploy/instant action that allowed squads to just poof show up on the roof of an amp station without any kind of beacon or squad leader (plus the short time Maxes were allowed to hot drop as well).

I'm pretty much in agreement wtih the OP on this one now.

[Roy Awesome]

I thought Section 8 handled the drop-pod issue very well. Players could deploy Anti-Drop Pod flak guns that shot down incoming reinformcents. The area at which you could deploy was very clearly marked, and lead to very interesting fights and the creation of area denial.

A simple SOI is too boring. Let us create our field to fight in.

[SadlyJack]

Introduce circles of influence around bases, disallowing drop pods within the circle.

Apply the same anti-drop pod influence circle to the sunderer no deploy circle because dropping on a sundy and C4'ing it before your model even renders is bullshit and you know it.

Remove squad deploy; it is every squad leader's "fuck you" button. If the battle isn't going your way; press squad deploy to win.

Increase height of spawn beacon beam dramatically, similar to the beacon from the BLUR trailer.

Make squad beacon vunerable to explosives so tanks and aircraft can support infantry by taking them out. Right now you can fire HEAT at one and it'll do diddly.


Circle of influence creates the problem of not knowing where your drop pod will land. So either;

A) right click map screen to choose your drop pod location in deploy screen, outside of the circle of influence. You cannot steer the pod.

B) use another invisible circle outside of base's circle of influence that can be dropped into. Deployment screen chooses any random area inside that circle for your drop pod to land in.

Makes drop podding a gamble instead of a straight up improvement from actual logistics. A Sunderer or Gal will take longer but have a better chance of getting you to the fight safely, making them more viable options for the average joes on the ground.

[Rahabib]

The one nice thing about a circle of influence is that it makes galaxies that much more useful. Gal drop a squad in, drop a spawn beacon and you are in business.

I dont think that spawn beacons are a big issue. You cant spam the squad deploy. It makes it that much more important to take them out just as it is for sunderers. I would say that it should be worth much more XP to take them out and a cool down timer on using them should be very high.

[KeyboardWarrior]

My 2 cents.

Instant action drop pods should be not be in the game. Keep the instant action system, however, link it to friendly spawns rather than drop podding people. Someone pressing instant action would appear at the nearest Sunderer or spawn room to a fight, like the insert in warp gate while in a squad type of deploy.

Replace the squad deploy mechanic with the spawn in friendly transport vehicle mechanic that you have in the works. It would be much less abusable. Maybe lower the timer somewhat from 5 minutes though.


The drop beacon/mechanic is maybe a little harder. Maybe link it to the squad leader or highest concentration of squad members and reduce the amount you have can steer the pod quite dramatically.

Or beacons could be a two part system. Place the actual beacon exactly like now. However, also have the SL have a second item in the weapon slots that allows him/her to place a target marker for drops pods. No cooldown on the marker. Then make drop pods much harder to steer. Without the marker down drop pods will go straight down on the beacon.

[wasdie]

OP talks about logistics a lot - beacons and squad deploy are exactly that - logistic tools. There are obviously a few issues with them though.

I define logistics of moving materials from one point to another. A squad spawn beacon ignores the movement part and just teleports players whenever the beacon is placed.

The biggest issue this game has is the lack of logical logistics. Instead it's whack a mole with spawns popping up unpredictably all over the place and the ability for troops to deploy themselves behind enemy lines.

The only logistical part is when the guy places the spawn beacon down. They have to physically move to that point. Once it's set they can spawn an unlimited amount of people down, all of which have a decent radius of where they can steer their drop pod. This is now used to bypass defenses, spawn on top of strategic locations, and generally ruin the flow of battle.

I've been in plenty of battles where the enemy isn't coming from a direction, they are spawning right ontop of the objective you're supposed to be defending. That's not logistics.

[wasdie]

I would be up for adding counters to squad deploy beacon drops. Something that could deny the ability for drop pods to drop right ontop of over within a certain radius of important objectives.

An engineer placed counter that could prevent drop pods from landing within their radius, a generator powered counter that protects a base from drop pods falling right ontop.

I would like to see active counters, not just passive things. If the squad beacon isn't going to go away (and there are enough arguments to keep it in the game despite me not liking the mechanic) at least give us the counters. I would love to see people have to fight for their ability to use a squad beacon by having to take down a certain generator or actively hunt out deployed counters. It could add a lot to the support element of this game thus making the metagame a much more rich experience.

I know that's a lot of work for the devs, but it could go a long way to addressing a few issues with this game.

[Rahabib]

I would be up for adding counters to squad deploy beacon drops. Something that could deny the ability for drop pods to drop right ontop of over within a certain radius of important objectives.

An engineer placed counter that could prevent drop pods from landing within their radius, a generator powered counter that protects a base from drop pods falling right ontop.

I would like to see active counters, not just passive things. If the squad beacon isn't going to go away (and there are enough arguments to keep it in the game despite me not liking the mechanic) at least give us the counters. I would love to see people have to fight for their ability to use a squad beacon by having to take down a certain generator or actively hunt out deployed counters. It could add a lot to the support element of this game thus making the metagame a much more rich experience.

I know that's a lot of work for the devs, but it could go a long way to addressing a few issues with this game.

I like drop pods myself. I do think they can be abused. Why not just have a life span for the spawn beacon that runs out well before another one can be deployed? Say, it only works for a few minutes instead of 30, then you must wait a long time place it again (so instead of 5 minutes its like 15-30). So you can take it out or just wait until it goes out if its in an impossible to counter position (which IMO, is very rare). Especially if a sphere of influence is in the game I think you need insertion of some sort.

Another option is to make them use a full 750 resources (you must be maxed out) wanna use C4? not if you wanna lay down that spawn beacon. I think a lot of people will think twice about using them. Make them use up all of your resources if you want to use it.

I just think we can find a solution that works rather than scrapping everything and turning it into PS1.

[Stanis]

Add teleporters and jump pads to the beacon mechanics.

They make the intervening distances irrelevant.
They might look cool - but like wall design and clutter where there should be clear firing arcs for defenders the game was set up based on roving 'contested' gameplay or 'matches'.

I abuse the beacon and drop buttons because it works.
It's cheese.

[Rothnang]

I like the idea of drop pods a lot, but they are so powerful in terms of achieving superior positioning they really shouldn't be something you can just rain on a base willy nilly.

What I would really like to see for squads would be an orbital support system that basically works by looking at all the kill XP the squad earns (base XP, no further advantages for premium) to fill up an orbital support pool for that squad. When it maxes out you can call for pod drops, bombardment, supply drops etc, but you need to earn these options by fighting.

That way if you just make a squad of 2 people they might be able to earn orbital support every once in a while, but making a full squad is much more desirable because it earns orbital support more often. It also means that if you're just spawncamping a hand full of guys you're not going to earn orbital support very quickly, while if you're in a huge battle you'll get the support much more often - which is consistent with how a military organization would allot limited support to its troops - the people in the thick of the action get priority.

[Artalion]

Another option is to make them use a full 750 resources (you must be maxed out) wanna use C4? not if you wanna lay down that spawn beacon. I think a lot of people will think twice about using them. Make them use up all of your resources if you want to use it.

750 resources is too extreme, but making a spawn beacon dependent on infantry resources isn't a bad idea.

I want to point out that Spawn Beacons and Squad Deploy options aren't just good for offense, but can be used for defensive purposes. If your spawn is being camped by liberators, a couple drop pods is a great way to clear the air. Even a near miss is something for the pilot to think about. If you are surrounded by AMS sundies, a drop pod kamikaze strike is an effective way to break a siege. In many cases, a squad beacon is the only way to break a spawn camp siege.

The problem, in my view, isn't one of ability, but one in timing. The timers on squad beacons and squad deploys are too short.

Let's not forget why squad deployments were added. They were added so that if a person just joined a squad or if they got separated from their squad, they could join their squad immediately. That being said, it is unlikely that the player will need to use it for this more than once every thirty minutes. Doing this would cut the waves of drop pods by half, while still leaving it intact for the occasional lost soul, or for special occasions.

Squad Beacons are something which I would balance very delicately, because they are a rather risky thing to do. They attract a lot of attention and they are pretty easy to destroy. I don't mind the fact that they are placed on antennas, because it takes a lot of skill for someone to do that kind of thing.

The real problem is that switching squad leaders resets that count to zero. I think the game should remember how long it last was since you deployed on a squad beacon, no matter who the squad leader is. Furthermore, the squad leader should inherit the squad beacon timer from the last squad leader. I also liked how it used to be, when you had to resupply in order to get the squad beacons if you were suddenly switched to squad leader.

Concerning Galaxies:

I love Galaxies. I love flying them, I love riding in them, and I would use them more often. The problem is that there are only two places where you can get them currently: tech plants, and warpgates. On a place like Esamir, where there is only one tech plant, that generally means you have to use a warpgate.

An easy way to increase their use as a squad transport is to allow players to spawn a Galaxy from each major facility, not just tech plants. It makes sense to have them at major facilities, because that is where you expect the most people to be.

What I like about my suggestions is that it doesn't require the Devs to add new items to the game. It requires tweaking some timers, installing some galaxy terminals, and adding some additional code to make sure that existing things aren't abused. Adding new game items is shiny, but it also takes a lot of time to design, test, implement, and balance it.

[wasdie]

I like those ideas of increasing the timer and inheriting and existing squad beacon and timer.

I still believe the game would benefit greatly from some sort of no droppod zone.

[Malorn]

Wanted to share some of the drop pod thoughts and get your feedback. This is the general direction of where we're going with it, but as always it could change so no promises.

First, no current plans to remove drop pods. They're cool and a fun experience, particularly for new players. We would like to make them less annoying and follow the general battle lines better so we can have this cool and fun mechanic that augments the battle flow instead of disrupting it.

For drop pods in general looking at making them come down faster and making them a bit less maneuverable, so the net result is that they'd feel more frentic and get you to the action a bit sooner. You'd be able to steer to nearby cover but not move all that far from the origin point.

For instant action drop pods we are looking at making it so defenders always come down near the center of the facility, while attackers always come down somewhat randomly in a doughnut-shaped ring on the outside of the facility. This ring is roughly 150m from the center and differs by facility type, so the radius would be bigger for the large outposts and facilities than a small outpost. In PS1-terms, it's sort of like having an invisible SOI for attackers and having defenders come down in the center.

The goal is that if you are a defender you don't have to worry as much about drop pods coming down in the middle of your base or the very top of a tower and bypassing your front line (unless there's a beacon/squadleader, which you can see and destroy/kill). And as an attacker you don't have to worry as much about drop pods coming down by your AMS or tanks and blowing them up. In both cases, the drop pods are your reinforcements and unlikely to be an immediate threat.

This should also be better for those dropping down as they are less likely to be immediately killed upon landing.

And for pilots, with drop-pods a bit more predictable you should have a pretty good idea of where not to fly to avoid getting hit by one.

[wasdie]

When you say instant action drop pods, does that also apply to the "squad deploy" drop pod?

I understand the beacon would be pretty much the same.

[Malorn]

Squad deploy functions the same as a beacon, only without the beacon.

[shaql]

no, wasdie, when he says "instant action drop pods" he means "instant action drop pods", as the stuff he mentions when talking about the IADPs concerns IA-specific stuff, like dropping on a specific facility, not point, and squad deploy and beacons drop people on a point. When he's talking about all drop pods, he says "drop pods in general".

goddamnit, why is today's youth unable to read...

[Assist]

For instant action drop pods we are looking at making it so defenders always come down near the center of the facility, while attackers always come down somewhat randomly in a doughnut-shaped ring on the outside of the facility. This ring is roughly 150m from the center and differs by facility type, so the radius would be bigger for the large outposts and facilities than a small outpost. In PS1-terms, it's sort of like having an invisible SOI for attackers and having defenders come down in the center.

That'd be way better than what we have now. I don't like the idea of limiting the movement capabilities, but when you explain it like that I think it would help a lot.

[wasdie]

no, wasdie, when he says "instant action drop pods" he means "instant action drop pods", as the stuff he mentions when talking about the IADPs concerns IA-specific stuff, like dropping on a specific facility, not point, and squad deploy and beacons drop people on a point. When he's talking about all drop pods, he says "drop pods in general".

goddamnit, why is today's youth unable to read...

Well I'm only asking because the Squad Deploy without a beacon could just act like an instant action to get you in the same hex following the same rules as the instant action.

I don't like the Squad Deploy function right now. That's part of the issue. It could have the same rules as instant action. The only way you can get your squad mates right on you is if you place the beacon. That would be an improvement.

[EvilNinjadude]

Well I'm only asking because the Squad Deploy without a beacon could just act like an instant action to get you in the same hex following the same rules as the instant action.

I don't like the Squad Deploy function right now. That's part of the issue. It could have the same rules as instant action. The only way you can get your squad mates right on you is if you place the beacon. That would be an improvement.Exactly. You squad deploy on the leader, the game looks which base the leader is at, and then goes through the instant action sequence for that base.

I agree with these statements, spawn beacons and squad deploy allow attackers more access to the base than defenders in the current implementation.

As for squad beacons... they're hard to see since they don't always render. A lot of people also ignore them, which is straight up dumb but not the game designers' fault. I think a beacon should be the only way to drop on a specific point on the map, and that the beacon should be a lot more visible than it is now. I'd say easily always visible at several hundred meters.

[PredatorFour]

For instant action drop pods we are looking at making it so defenders always come down near the center of the facility, while attackers always come down somewhat randomly in a doughnut-shaped ring on the outside of the facility. This ring is roughly 150m from the center and differs by facility type, so the radius would be bigger for the large outposts and facilities than a small outpost. In PS1-terms, it's sort of like having an invisible SOI for attackers and having defenders come down in the center.



Malorn, this is what should happen at every base regardless of isntant action! People shouldn't be allowed to put beacons within the SOI.

[ghnurbles]

@Malorn

Having faster dropping, less manoeuvrable drop pods will be an improvement - dropping infantry behind enemy lines should be the role of a Galaxy, not a beacon.

I don't think the Instant Action changes are going to help a whole lot, however. People are still frequently going to be dropped into terrible and awkward positions. What I'd like to see, and what would pretty much guarantee good drop positions, would be to change beacons from squad items into public items:

Anyone can carry and place beacons, not just squad leaders.
Anyone can spawn at a beacon that has been placed.
Beacons only last a few minutes (or less), and have a resource cost to compensate for their new power.
Instant Action is weighted towards heavily used beacons (the more a beacon is used, the better its position is likely to be).

Such a change would also put an end to the business of constantly swapping around squad leader to whoever is in a useful place to put down a beacon, or to avoid the beacon cooldown. Squad leader should be purely a communicational role, not a mechanical one.

[wasdie]

Avoiding beacon cool down and squad deploy functionality working just like a beacon with a longer cooldown are both issues.

Beacons need a few more limitations. You should not be able to avoid the cool down. Transferring squad leader should not reset any beacons. Once one is placed down it's tied to that squad, not the player who placed it.

I also wouldn't mind seeing some sort of a beacon timer on squad leader change. Right now you can transfer ownership of the squad to anybody and that person can place a beacon down wherever they are thus using the beacons for beyond their intended use of getting the squad together. Real easy to hand it off to an ESF pilot who can quickly land, place the beacon, and then go.

Also you shouldn't be able to do a squad spawn off of a dead leader. Let's put some emphasis on leadership with that role, not just make it a combat role with the ability to call in reinforcements on top of you and place waypoints down. It would also be awesome if a little star or something appeared next to the name of a spotted enemy squad leader AND friendly squad leaders. Let them stick out a bit more and be larger targets. They've got more tools that make them more valuable on the battlefield. They should play that role a bit more.

I would love if the squad deploy followed the same drop pod mechanics as the instant action and the squad beacon had a few more rules to prevent it from being used as a primary way to bring your troops into battle.

I would prefer to see Galaxies and Sunderers as the primary method of bringing troops to the battle with a squad beacon being something you can use once in awhile and the squad deploy as something used to make sure players can get to the same hex as their squad leader. Doing this would still achieve the original goals of the squad deploy and squad beacon while reducing the ability to abuse it.

[Ghoest9]

Everything the OP is complaining about - I see as a strong point of the game.

[KarrdeBRBU]

I'd be good with SOI type stuff so long as we can still use it with the functionality it has now. First, my outfit uses beacons to set AV/AA picnics on rocks and other weird locales. Either to delay an advance on a base or to create a no fly zone. Basically it gives the zerg breathing room. Second, and this is especially true for defenders, sometimes the beacon is pretty much the only way to knock out a sunderer. There's just too much crap between you and the spawn point. So pod in a kill it. To this day, I still don't get why ppl don't run mineguard though.

[DviddLeff]

Malorn those look like some good changes. Currently drop pods and instant action are far too effective at taking out attacking Sunderers. While it is one of my favorite things to do, it needs to be tougher.

Any thoughts on restricting squad deploy further - way too easy to move entire platoons across a continent in the time it takes a Scythe to fly squad leaders to the target?

[wasdie]

Everything the OP is complaining about - I see as a strong point of the game.

How is it a strong point of the game?

Everybody complains that the bases are terrible and there is no metagame and it's largely due to these systems. How is that making this game better? These mechanics ensure a terrible battle flow.

[NewSith]

How is it a strong point of the game?

Everybody complains that the bases are terrible and there is no metagame and it's largely due to these systems. How is that making this game better? These mechanics ensure a terrible battle flow.

This statement is false. The only reason - is base/facility layouts and that's it. Not like I agree with ghoest, but making a villian of the system that works as a good auxiliary to a broken design is not doing any good either.

[thenewguyinred]

what if spawn beacons only had a ceartain amount of uses every time you pulled it out and when you tried to switch squad leaders they had the cool down timer where yours left of. like if you just pulleed yours and you got 50% done with you timer then the person you passed it offed to would have 50% of there own timer left

[AuntLou]

Wanted to share some of the drop pod thoughts and get your feedback. This is the general direction of where we're going with it, but as always it could change so no promises.

First, no current plans to remove drop pods. They're cool and a fun experience, particularly for new players. We would like to make them less annoying and follow the general battle lines better so we can have this cool and fun mechanic that augments the battle flow instead of disrupting it.

For drop pods in general looking at making them come down faster and making them a bit less maneuverable, so the net result is that they'd feel more frentic and get you to the action a bit sooner. You'd be able to steer to nearby cover but not move all that far from the origin point.

For instant action drop pods we are looking at making it so defenders always come down near the center of the facility, while attackers always come down somewhat randomly in a doughnut-shaped ring on the outside of the facility. This ring is roughly 150m from the center and differs by facility type, so the radius would be bigger for the large outposts and facilities than a small outpost. In PS1-terms, it's sort of like having an invisible SOI for attackers and having defenders come down in the center.

The goal is that if you are a defender you don't have to worry as much about drop pods coming down in the middle of your base or the very top of a tower and bypassing your front line (unless there's a beacon/squadleader, which you can see and destroy/kill). And as an attacker you don't have to worry as much about drop pods coming down by your AMS or tanks and blowing them up. In both cases, the drop pods are your reinforcements and unlikely to be an immediate threat.

This should also be better for those dropping down as they are less likely to be immediately killed upon landing.

And for pilots, with drop-pods a bit more predictable you should have a pretty good idea of where not to fly to avoid getting hit by one.

Please please please don't ruing drop pods and spawn beacons. I really think they have their place in this game and have become a crucial strategy when breaking through enemy lines. What the OP complains about is just that, enemies breaking through the lines. Whelp IMO those front lines are just devensive walls of AV and AI that are just farming attackers trying to get into their base. There are a ton of bases in PS2 that are just too impenetrable and the spawn beacon is needed to balance it. Please don't screw this up!

[wasdie]

Tons of bases that are too impenetrable? Which ones? Light assaults can already hop over every defense in this game and if you want to land large amounts of players behind the line use a galaxy, not something that can teleport people behind the line.

Yesterday I watched as an outfit would have 2-3 squad leaders fly in a liberator or ESF, jump out, and then their entire squad would do a squad deploy and litter the entire area with droppods by the dozens.

How the heck can you defend against that?

[EVILoHOMER]

SOI is needed tbh.

[Rahabib]

Wanted to share some of the drop pod thoughts and get your feedback. This is the general direction of where we're going with it, but as always it could change so no promises.

First, no current plans to remove drop pods. They're cool and a fun experience, particularly for new players. We would like to make them less annoying and follow the general battle lines better so we can have this cool and fun mechanic that augments the battle flow instead of disrupting it.

For drop pods in general looking at making them come down faster and making them a bit less maneuverable, so the net result is that they'd feel more frentic and get you to the action a bit sooner. You'd be able to steer to nearby cover but not move all that far from the origin point.

For instant action drop pods we are looking at making it so defenders always come down near the center of the facility, while attackers always come down somewhat randomly in a doughnut-shaped ring on the outside of the facility. This ring is roughly 150m from the center and differs by facility type, so the radius would be bigger for the large outposts and facilities than a small outpost. In PS1-terms, it's sort of like having an invisible SOI for attackers and having defenders come down in the center.

The goal is that if you are a defender you don't have to worry as much about drop pods coming down in the middle of your base or the very top of a tower and bypassing your front line (unless there's a beacon/squadleader, which you can see and destroy/kill). And as an attacker you don't have to worry as much about drop pods coming down by your AMS or tanks and blowing them up. In both cases, the drop pods are your reinforcements and unlikely to be an immediate threat.

This should also be better for those dropping down as they are less likely to be immediately killed upon landing.

And for pilots, with drop-pods a bit more predictable you should have a pretty good idea of where not to fly to avoid getting hit by one.

This sounds great for IA, although for squad beacons, if you can only drop using the "doughnut" area, it makes it so placement wont matter. I think you should keep it so they come in a tight group, moving faster, with much longer acquisition timers and shorter lifespan.

[Senorblanco]

Instead of wrecking the beauty of the drop pod, just make them take no dmg and do no dmg, that stops all the ppl bitching about dmg to the vehicle. Please don't change a wonderful element to the game.

[Rahabib]

I don't know about you but lately I haven't been able to hit anything with a drop let alone a hovering lib. Although if they are just hover spamming they kind of deserve it.

[AuntLou]

Tons of bases that are too impenetrable? Which ones?

I'll just start with every tower there is. Plenty of others but yeah if your going against a force that knows what they are doing you shouldn't even get close.


Light assaults can already hop over every defense in this game and if you want to land large amounts of players behind the line use a galaxy, not something that can teleport people behind the line.

Yesterday I watched as an outfit would have 2-3 squad leaders fly in a liberator or ESF, jump out, and then their entire squad would do a squad deploy and litter the entire area with droppods by the dozens.


Light assaults can't get to the walls if the sunderers can't.

Oh a galaxy can get behind enemy lines????? Better nerf it!!!!

How the heck can you defend against that?

You get out from behind you mana turret and shoot them. Also while your at it shoot the beacon with the huge shinning light in the sky. They will stop coming if you do that.

[wasdie]

Light assaults can't get to the walls if the sunderers can't.

Oh a galaxy can get behind enemy lines????? Better nerf it!!!!


You get out from behind you mana turret and shoot them.

You make it sound so easy when in practice it's not.

You can see and hear a galaxy coming and you have active base defenses that fight against that. The only thing preventing a squad beacon from raining down 11 over soldiers behind your defense requiring you to abandon your defenses making them completely irrelevant is if somebody can see the squad spawn beacon, which can pop up at any time anywhere throughout the base completely unannounced and silently, and destroy it before all 11 other squadmates fall within the base. As others have pointed out, this isn't an easy task. You don't even know which players have the capability of spawning troops so there is no possible way for you to know where the droppods will start raining down from. The entire strategy is reactive to the droppods which gives the droppods a major advantage that is easily exploitable.

You're supporting a mechanic that makes bases pretty much irrelevant and makes it impossible to sustain any real attack as zones of control are completely useless. Walls, buildings, turrets, shields, gens, engineer turrets, and mines are all almost irrelevant with the ability to easily drop within the confines of a base or on top of an enemy sunderer without any real counters or warning for the defenders. It's simply not a good mechanic and it's working against the flow of each battle.

During a large fight the interior of a base is pretty much chaos with droppods falling on top of the base constantly from many different squad deploy and squad beacons. The outside of the base similarly chaotic thanks to defensive squad deploys falling behind the attackers point of attack. This is a far cry from the nice flow each base had back in Planetside 1 and it's a key reason why people call base design terrible. There is no real way to defend against the constant stream of drop pods falling behind you. There is no reason to cover your flanks since the enemy never has to physically travel to reach them, they just have to fall out of the sky with no counters.

There is no real concept of controlling sections of a base with mechanics like the jump pads, teleports, and drop pods. Both attackers and defenders can utilize these various mechanics to get behind the enemy constantly. This ruins any sort of flow we would generally see in Planetside 1 and it's something this game would really benefit from.

If you want to drop a squad behind a line you should have to use a galaxy. There the defenders at least know where you are coming from and that you're coming at all. You can't just teleport behind them with virtually no warning. You have to work a bit if you want the element of surprise.

I'm not one for static defense myself, thus I rarely man turrets or lay mines, but the ability for an attacker to spawn closer to an objective via a sundy, squad deploy, or squad beacon, ruins base defenses in this game. Even an active defense is difficult if you constantly have to resweep over every objective just to clear out the enemies who have appeared out of nowhere. Small outposts can be overrun a matter of seconds with absolutely no warning from the squad beacon or spawn deploy and objectives at large bases can be overrun with no real defense from the dop pods falling from the sky.

In no way is it good design. I know people think it's all "good tactics" to get behind the line, but the methods used to get behind the line are not the same as actual flanking and cause more issues with the overall flow of battle than they benefit the game. Galaxies are severely underutilized and every base fight has become a TDM until the attackers can camp the terribly located spawn rooms all aided by the ability to continually drop right within the confines of an enemy base ignoring logistics and defenses.

[Frugal]

Kill the beacon. Even in a odd place LA will always be able to reach them and if your defense doesn't cover air then rethink your defense. Drop pods can be killed with flak and aircraft. It is very easy for me to hang out on the sky ceiling and shoot down the drop pods. I do it all the time.

[Frugal]

You also can not exclude static defense. You can place tank mines or proxy mines as an engi or inf and you can later switch classes and the mines will still be in place. Static defense is another tool that you must utilize or you can't say that you have a strong defense.

[AuntLou]

I’ll start by saying I'm all for allowing beacons to render at a farther distance and I also wouldn't mind if they removed squad deploy. All I’m defending here is the squad becon.


You make it sound so easy when in practice it's not.

You can see and hear a galaxy coming and you have active base defenses that fight against that.

You can also see the mode of transport the squad leader took the get the beacon down. Also you can see a big bright beam in the sky and it can be destroyed allot easier then a galaxy.


The only thing preventing a squad beacon from raining down 11 over soldiers behind your defense requiring you to abandon your defenses making them completely irrelevant is if somebody can see the squad spawn beacon, which can pop up at any time anywhere throughout the base completely unannounced and silently, and destroy it before all 11 other squadmates fall within the base.

As others have pointed out, this isn't an easy task. You don't even know which players have the capability of spawning troops so there is no possible way for you to know where the droppods will start raining down from. The entire strategy is reactive to the droppods which gives the droppods a major advantage that is easily exploitable.


Squad beacons don't just "pop up". The squad leader has to penetrate the base to put it up. It’s a far more difficult task then you are making it sound. Yes there is a good chance 11 other squad mates will fall into your base behind your precious defenses. Not sure what the problem is with that? Are your guys not taking care of that? Not putting up sensor webs? proxy mines? Drop pods are large metal boxes that usually make a player a sitting duck when they first land. It's really not hard for a few defenders to handle drop pods. It might not be Planetside 1 but in remember in Planetside 1 anyone could just bail out of a aircraft and drop down wherever they pleased with no damage and WITH NO HUGE POD showing.



You're supporting a mechanic that makes bases pretty much irrelevant and makes it impossible to sustain any real attack as zones of control are completely useless. Walls, buildings, turrets, shields, gens, engineer turrets, and mines are all almost irrelevant with the ability to easily drop within the confines of a base or on top of an enemy sunderer without any real counters or warning for the defenders. It's simply not a good mechanic and it's working against the flow of each battle.

During a large fight the interior of a base is pretty much chaos with droppods falling on top of the base constantly from many different squad deploy and squad beacons. The outside of the base similarly chaotic thanks to defensive squad deploys falling behind the attackers point of attack. This is a far cry from the nice flow each base had back in Planetside 1 and it's a key reason why people call base design terrible. There is no real way to defend against the constant stream of drop pods falling behind you. There is no reason to cover your flanks since the enemy never has to physically travel to reach them, they just have to fall out of the sky with no counters.

Poor base design makes bases irrelevant NOT squad beacons. Every base in Planetside 1 was surrounded by walls. Towers were pretty easy to defend as well. Most importantly every spawn was internally connected to the main objective. If bases were anything like this in Planetside 2 we wouldn’t even be having this discussion. Planetside 2 needs revamp every base to force an indoor battle. Moving the objectives into tiny little buildings, adding little tunnels and adding cute little walls does not make up for it. Once again all this having nothing to do with the squad beacon.


There is no real concept of controlling sections of a base with mechanics like the jump pads, teleports, and drop pods. Both attackers and defenders can utilize these various mechanics to get behind the enemy constantly. This ruins any sort of flow we would generally see in Planetside 1 and it's something this game would really benefit from.

If you want to drop a squad behind a line you should have to use a galaxy. There the defenders at least know where you are coming from and that you're coming at all. You can't just teleport behind them with virtually no warning. You have to work a bit if you want the element of surprise.

If they removed squad deploy and left beacons as is I believe this would solve this. Defenders would know for sure when there is a drop pod there is a beacon and they should seek and destroy it. The beacon timers do prevent this from being spammed to an extent that it makes base defense impossible.


I'm not one for static defense myself, thus I rarely man turrets or lay mines, but the ability for an attacker to spawn closer to an objective via a sundy, squad deploy, or squad beacon, ruins base defenses in this game. Even an active defense is difficult if you constantly have to resweep over every objective just to clear out the enemies who have appeared out of nowhere. Small outposts can be overrun a matter of seconds with absolutely no warning from the squad beacon or spawn deploy and objectives at large bases can be overrun with no real defense from the dop pods falling from the sky.

Here you are stating negative factors to the beacon that also hold true to the galaxy. You could reiterate that you know the gal is coming but then I’ll just reiterate that the spawn beacon is a large beam in the sky yadda yadda yadda….

In no way is it good design. I know people think it's all "good tactics" to get behind the line, but the methods used to get behind the line are not the same as actual flanking and cause more issues with the overall flow of battle than they benefit the game. Galaxies are severely underutilized and every base fight has become a TDM until the attackers can camp the terribly located spawn rooms all aided by the ability to continually drop right within the confines of an enemy base ignoring logistics and defenses.

I think it’s great design, amazing tactics and most of all they are fun as hell! Laying beacons, destroying beacons and dropping down in pods has become a large tactical aspect in Planetside 2. I enjoy using them and I don’t mind defending against them. Destroying a spawn beacon to me is just as rewarding as destroying a sunderer.

Get rid of the squad deploy, increase the render distance of the beacon or even increase the XP for destroying one. But please don’t remove them, make drop pods faster or less maneuverable. It will ruin a very fun and amazing aspect to Planetside 2.

[Dodgy Commando]

How about this:

Just a quick suggestion, based loosely on Section 8.

Bases have an SOI. Drop Pods have brakes.

You can drop into the SOI, but the base's turrets will track you automatically should you not brake (you come in faster, but risk being destroyed). Should you choose to brake, turrets will not track you, but you stand a greater chance of being spotted by players before landing.

Outside of a base's SOI, Drop Pods work as usual.

-e-
Player-occupied AA turrets could include an 'Incoming Drop!' warning indicator.