The Harrasser: Needs a nerf, or perfect dedicated driver?

[phungus]

I don't like the fact I can see a buggy square up to a MBT and kill it. It just looks wrong. But from a gameplay perspective it kinda makes sense.

I suppose I'm biased, but it's solely due to the model the Harraser uses, but I think an AP round should set a Harraser on fire and Harrassers should fear tank rounds more (they seem fine in terms of weakness to any weapon my ESF or lib has). It does seem apropriate though that it's as tough as it is considering it's a team vehicle that uses 2 players at least to really optimally use.

Very fun vehicle too as is.

[Rasui]

Remove their ability to repair on the move and they'll be good.

[MrMak]

The composite armor is the problem. It simply should not provide protection against heay munitions. Basilisks AA guns small arms, bulldogs/furies fine. Tank shells HELL NO.

[Eggy]

The harraser is perfect. Its requires teamplay and coordination to be effective and is fun to play. And it gets totaly dominated by people who know how to play.

The game needs more "active" skills and abilites. While repairing on the move isnt a harraser abilty, it is an example of fun and interesting gameplay that requires active participation to be effective. Its not a sheild or a Nanite auto repair system.

Its the benchmark that all the other vehciles should be balanced around, not 1 person MBTs.

The only way it can repair and move is if its 3 man and there is an engineer in the back.
Allowing a 3 man vehicle to be 1 shotted by a tank would just make them pointless.

If its infact only a 2 man harraser then it cant fire, move and repair at the same time.
For any decent 2/2 MBT crew thats a kill.

A 2/2 AV MBT has no escuses for dieing to a harraser. The MBT dps's and has more armour.
The mag can use the afterburner to ensure the harraser doesnt get the rear shot, the van can use the shield to tank the rear shot and the prower can deploy and put 2* the number of rounds into the harraser(with a halber or vulcan on top it massively outdps the harraser).

If youve spent any time in the rear seat you will know that repairing at max speed isnt that easy and also isnt that effective when your under fire.

MBTs and lightnings die so fast (to everything) due to the rear armour weakness.
MBT drivers need to do more to protect there rear. Looking at the radar would be a good start , "most" MBT drivers dont seem to do this.
A harraser cannot equip both composite an stealth. So you get to see it early on the radar or 2 shot it when it gets close.

The main problem with harrasers is people. They choose not to shoot them.
3 people in the harraser. 3 people on foot. If they all shot at the harraser with rockets, small arms and maxes then it would force them to retreat.
What actualy happens in 99.9% of the time is people try to run/hide. Then they get splatted.
You can also jump straight over a harraser and drop c4 on the roof.

The players also choose what class to play. I would be willing to bet realy money that 99.9% of harraser dirvers and gunners are engineers and a large chunk will have spent certs upgrading there engineer tools and skills.
Of course these guys are going to outperform that Light assault in the 1 person MBT.
Again were back at the players, they need to pull 2/2 MBTs and they both need to be engineers. You can repair your tank at the exact same speed they repair there harraser and they cant shoot back while they do it (most of the time) you can.

They have been released for weeks now and yet people still deploy sunderers out in the open and have mini zrgs of infantry running about and in clusters. This is a great tactic but theres no exscuse for not dropping a handfull of tank mines. That maruader haraser team shouldnt be able to drive round and round the exact same route making multiple passes.

[Ghoest9]

I think its pretty much fine as is.
I would understand changing the repair while driving theng - but I think it would be fine either way.

[PredatorFour]

The vulcan harrassers look insane fun from a VS perspective until they run over a couple of mines. I would agree with taking the ability away to repair on the fly OR make their armour weaker. One or the other.

It's a tough call though cos they are squishy if you hit them and with a good driver/gunner they are going to be amazing. Just seems wierd that my turbo laser can beast them but my saron struggles in comparison.

[typhaon]

Harassers (2-man, or not) are not "easy" kills for any "good" 2-man tank crew. Their mobility and durability (again, nevermind with a repair guy in the back) make them hard as **** to kill. Everyone knows this and it's one of the primary reasons they are so popular.

I'm back and forth on what I think about MLG - but I do think one of the nice benefits is that when $$$/whateveritistheycompetefor is on the line, you'll see gamers gravitate towards the most OP weapons/vehicles/tactics and I think we'll see much quicker and better results from balancing efforts by SOE.

[Obstruction]

buff mbt because i swear to god if you whiny fucks get harasser nerfed i'll never forgive you.

i can see giving it AP weakness and taking 50% of its HP from an AP round, whatever, it won't matter.

the reasons a good harasser can take out a bad MBT are:

1. mobility trumps armor

2. MBT is usually pulled by scrubs who just spam any vehicle and get cut off from the zerg.

no harasser that wants to live assaults a tank line. maybe they make a run behind a tank line and take out support, get put into red and narrowly escape. healing on the run is not that easy, it only works at 1 angle and decent evasive maneuvers screw it up anyway. "it's impossible! slow down!" is what my gunner complains. if we go red we can't move at speed anyway and that is what gets us dead 90% of the time.

also again please reference the long list of available counters. mines, lock on rockets, C4, lines of tanks in a good position, AV turrets, tower turrets, and unfortunate terrain hazards.

if you think MBT needs to be better then make it fucking better and maybe i'll use one and respect them more.

[Rolfski]

It has been discussed before (http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?t=55578). If you can easily get 100+ killstreaks with this thing without ever dying, then obviously something is wrong.

[SadlyJack]

Nerf it into the ground, scorch the fucking earth.

[MrMak]

Nerf it into the ground, scorch the fucking earth.

Such a well thought out argument that will certainly shed a new light on the issue.........

[Obstruction]

If you can easily get 100+ killstreaks

maybe on a scrub server, not on a good server.

trust me, i smurf around on some of these other servers and players are just bad.

try it on connery during an alert and you'll see. you can get a good amount of kills in the right place and time but there's plenty of risk involved and it's never as exaggerated as you claim.

[MrMak]

I jsut did some testing on the stock harraser targets in the VR. Without the composit armor its durability is exactly where it should be.

To kill it without armor:

2 AP Vanguard shots (couldt test the lightnign since it didnt let me equipt the AP Python for some reason)

3 HEAT shots from both the Vanguard and lightning (Difference beign the HEAT python doesnt set the harasser on fire with the second hit)

about 12 shots from the Viper

4 Shots from the Vanguard HE and 5 from the lightning HE.



The issue is the composite armor is too effective against heavy weapons. There realy isnt much point using any thing else as it stands now.


It should provide its current full protection from small arms and low calibler and high explosive rounds only.

HEAT rounds should be less hmapered. Say make the second Vanguard HEAT round not set it on fire and force the HEAT lightnign to fire one more shot to kill with the 3rdhit only setting the Harasser on fire.

It SHOULDNT provide any protection against AP rounds though. We are talking about a weapon meant to specialise in destroying tanks for pete's sake. A thin coat of light armor should bel like nothing for it.

[PredatorFour]

You could say that as the harrasser costs quite abit of resources it should defo hold its own against tanks. It maybe doesn't need a nerf, it is another potent combat vehicle and should be combatted accordingly and with respect if your in an mbt.

Think of the amount of vehicles the original had then think if the people moaning about nerf's played that game... Tears would be all over the place! Just because it's another vehicle doesn't mean it shouldn't be able to 1 v 1 said vehicle! I think this is crucial to the games success.

[AThreatToYou]

Repair on the fly could go. I don't know about that. If it does go, ignore the following:

Currently, Composite Armor protects against everything. I think we could fix the Harasser by changing out the cert packages to force them to choose between small arms+c4 protection or tank shells+AV protection.

But my baseline opinion is ... the Harasser does not need a nerf.


It SHOULDNT provide any protection against AP rounds though. We are talking about a weapon meant to specialise in destroying tanks for pete's sake. A thin coat of light armor should bel like nothing for it.

There are historical records of AP shells going all the way through lighter vehicles but not critically damaging the vehicle at all. HEAT and HE shells should be more deadly to them.

[camycamera]

the reason that a Harasser can kick an MBT's ass when used effectively is simply due to the fact that tanks don't have dedicated main gunners.

DO IT SOE.

nerfing wont do anything, it would just piss people off. the harrasser as it is is simply perfect, and is probably the best vehicle in the game simply due to the teamwork it requires. tanks should of had that since the start.

[MrMak]

There are historical records of AP shells going all the way through lighter vehicles but not critically damaging the vehicle at all. HEAT and HE shells should be more deadly to them.

ignoring how AP weapons work in the game.....show me a spot on the Harasser where a round going straight through it wouldnt destroy or cripple it.

Windshield: Take Driver's head off.

Hood: No more engine.

Rear: Either supention goes bye bye or it goes straight through the driver's cabin or the engine.

The Harasser is not a haltrack with a lot of empty space.


Still doesnt change the fact Composite armor should have no effect onrounds designed to go through heavy Tank armor.

[TermiGR]

I think that they did a pretty good job on the Harasser! Its perfectly balanced. It does not make too much damage on the MBT's, The MBT's just need to aim better. If you hit an harasser it dies very fast, or it needs to drive away so either way. You CAN get rid of them.
They already nerfed the Enforcer Gun, so its fine now.

[Timealude]

the reason that a Harasser can kick an MBT's ass when used effectively is simply due to the fact that tanks don't have dedicated main gunners.

DO IT SOE.

nerfing wont do anything, it would just piss people off. the harrasser as it is is simply perfect, and is probably the best vehicle in the game simply due to the teamwork it requires. tanks should of had that since the start.

i dont see how giving dedicated gunner slots to MBT would make it easier for them to take down a harasser, it just comes down to the fact that harassers are doing their jobs. Normally anything fast and agile can take something big and lumbering. It pretty much all comes down to player skill level.

[KarrdeBRBU]

The harasser is fine. I expect better over here at PSU TBH. Most of this thread, though well written, seems to be a lot of "I got killed by this so nerf plz." Yes, the harasser is good. Yes, it can solo MBTs and Lightnings. I see no problems here. Even with a maxed out composite armor, it's still pretty paper. Without composite it just evaporates on sight. Here's the real issues as I see them.

1. 1/2 MBTs think they're god. Get a gunner.
2. Most lightning drivers can't gun and drive at the same time. They have trouble keeping in their head where their front is. I frequently run circles around lightnings and they just stop driving and try to rotate their gun around to get me.
3. Sundy's, again, no gunners. Even 2 basilisk guns vs a harasser is nasty. A single harasser usually cannot do enough damage unless the players are really bad.
3. We've got 3 players in our vehicle working as a cohesive unit. We're people who've played together in our outfit for quite some time. We work well together. You're one guy in an MBT.

So I think it's an issue of skill and teamwork that really beats MBTs. Just because it's fast doesn't mean it should be free kills for your camping tank. Also, really wanna mess up harassers? Get 3 guys together with ESRLs, esp Phoenix and Lancer. And don't forget that without composite armor, the Striker kills a harasser in 1 clip.

[Mastachief]

The harrasser is a fine vehicle leave it alone. The issues come from the Vulcan........... Nerf that already.

A vehicle that requires two people to gun and is weak hit point wise should own solo tankers it rewards the teamwork invested in the vehicle.

[ShadoViper]

Leave it alone, it's fun and fine.

[Varsam]

The harraser is perfect. Its requires teamplay and coordination to be effective and is fun to play. And it gets totaly dominated by people who know how to play.

Its the benchmark that all the other vehciles should be balanced around, not 1 person MBTs.

Even though I agree with this statement, I think that the Harasser is pretty ridiculously OP compared to the other ground vehicles. It is way too survivable for its mobility and speed, and it actually requires LESS skill (though more teamwork) than a single-crewed vehicle because each occupant only has one task (drive or shoot) while a single-seater must do these things simultaneously, constantly. The harasser's effectiveness combined with its durability turn it into an extremely effective force multiplier - a small group of harasser users can take on a group of enemies many times their size and win, because the enemy simply can't do enough sustainable damage to them before they run away.

That said, the harasser is fun, rewarding, and easy to pick up. Rather than nerfing it to other vehicles' level of effectiveness, another option would be to buff every other vehicle. The problem with that is that, once all vehicles are again performing on similar (and heightened) levels, infantry are left in the dust, and it again becomes vehicleside 2.

The composite armor is the problem. It simply should not provide protection against heay munitions. Basilisks AA guns small arms, bulldogs/furies fine. Tank shells HELL NO.

I agree with this.

[MrMak]

So toda i was in a Skyguard. A Vulcan harasser was....well harasing me. 3 freindly reavers were attacking it and i even unloaded an entire clip into it at point blank range, not counting al lthe rounds i put into it before. The damn thing finaly killed me and kept toying with the 3 reavers becouse they were unable to deliver enaugh damage to kill it before ghe gunenr repaired it on the move.


Seriosuly composite armor is ridicoulus.

[Kuf]

It seemed a little over effective but people are coming out with decent counters and it's dying a bit quicker now. Leave it as it is and let tactics work themselves out.

[NewSith]

I don't like the fact I can see a buggy square up to a MBT and kill it. It just looks wrong. But from a gameplay perspective it kinda makes sense.

I suppose I'm biased, but it's solely due to the model the Harraser uses, but I think an AP round should set a Harraser on fire and Harrassers should fear tank rounds more (they seem fine in terms of weakness to any weapon my ESF or lib has). It does seem apropriate though that it's as tough as it is considering it's a team vehicle that uses 2 players at least to really optimally use.

Very fun vehicle too as is.

Blame infantry that pulls its missile launchers to kill a vehicle designed to avoid projectiles. 3 HAs with LMGs are actually as deadly to a Harasser as the harasser itself to them.

[Whiteagle]

The harraser is perfect. Its requires teamplay and coordination to be effective and is fun to play. And it gets totaly dominated by people who know how to play.

The game needs more "active" skills and abilites. While repairing on the move isnt a harraser abilty, it is an example of fun and interesting gameplay that requires active participation to be effective. Its not a sheild or a Nanite auto repair system.

Its the benchmark that all the other vehciles should be balanced around, not 1 person MBTs.
Indeed, the reason the Harrasser is so popular isn't due to any real killing power, it's the fact that it's the Vehicle Planetside 2 needed but not the one it deserves!

...In other words, unlike the Sunderer or Galaxy that need extensive manpower and/or Certification investments to begin to reach their full potential, the Harrasser is effective even when stock.
If MBTs were made to have Seperate Driver and Main Cannon Controls, they'd probaby be just as effective.

If youve spent any time in the rear seat you will know that repairing at max speed isnt that easy and also isnt that effective when your under fire.

Yeah, more often then not you end up dead just before the Harrasser explodes...

Currently, Composite Armor protects against everything. I think we could fix the Harasser by changing out the cert packages to force them to choose between small arms+c4 protection or tank shells+AV protection.
I'd accept that, but then again I run Nanite Repair...

[Van Dax]

Sometimes I feel like they're a better magrider than the actual thing.

[wasdie]

They are way too fast for the amount of hits they can take. Repairing on the fly while still keeping offensive capabilities is difficult. It's even difficult to kill a 2/3 harasser who is able to run all over the place and repair while running.

[AThreatToYou]

Blame infantry that pulls its missile launchers to kill a vehicle designed to avoid projectiles. 3 HAs with LMGs are actually as deadly to a Harasser as the harasser itself to them.

I started shooting at Harassers with my primary guns, and the things started running away if not exploding.

Please follow this advice.

[Belhade]

I started shooting at Harassers with my primary guns, and the things started running away if not exploding.

Please follow this advice.

QFT. If you don't set the thing on fire, you're gonna hose its occupants.

[Varsam]

Blame infantry that pulls its missile launchers to kill a vehicle designed to avoid projectiles. 3 HAs with LMGs are actually as deadly to a Harasser as the harasser itself to them.

Uh, no. It takes about 268 rounds at point blank range from a 143dmg weapon (which would be unlikely, since you'd never be that close to a harasser) to destroy a harasser with max composite armor. At max dropoff assuming 125 dmg (which is a much more likely engagement range), it would take about 307 rounds. In both instances, that's more ammo than most characters are even capable of carrying. That's also assuming 100% accuracy. Average accuracy is anywhere from 21-25%. Given that, it would take at least 1228 rounds (@ 25% accuracy) fired to destroy a single armored harasser at minimum dmg for most guns. That means 3 guys would have to fire about 410 shots each (again, more ammo than those 3 heavies are even capable of carrying without the right certs). Assuming they're using the Carv - the fastest firing LMG in the game with a 100-round mag (the Orion and MSW-R both tie for RPM but have only 50-round mags, requiring twice as many reloads), that would take about 40 seconds of continuous, uninterrupted fire (That's also assuming they maintain 25% accuracy while firing, which is basically impossible if you don't stop periodically to let your COF recover). This is, of course, all assuming a hypothetical scenario that heavily favors the 3 infantrymen, that there is absolutely nothing else going on and the harasser hasn't managed to kill any of them.

Good luck.

QFT. If you don't set the thing on fire, you're gonna hose its occupants.

It's funny that you QFT and then immediately after say something that is literally impossible.

[NewSith]

Uh, no.

Uh, yes. Small arms fire>Missiles when dealing with a Harasser or with any of the ESFs. You may not destroy it, but you scare it off and that's more than enough.


Though it's obvously easier to whine for a nerf, until the vehicle becomes useless even against a single HE lightning.

[MrMak]

How hard is it to frigin understand that the fastest vehicle in the game shouldnt be able to take 4 HEAT shells from a slow heavy tank and just drive away while repairing.

You are traveling at up to 90kph or more. If a Vanguard can hit you 3 times with its slow reloading gun before you get away, you sure as hell should be dead.

Again, that is an issue with composite armor not the vehicle itself. Without it its speed and firepower are perfectly justified.

A fast dune buggy should not be able to take damage comparable to a light tank, period.

As for it costing s much as a lightning. Consider this: this is a vehicle that requires 2 people to operate properly (That people are able to be effective solo by swaping seats is again the fault of composite armor) so you have 2 guys taking turns pulling the vehicle, which in turn cuts the cost of pulling multiple buggies in half for the individual player.

[blashyrk]

How hard is it to frigin understand that the fastest vehicle in the game shouldnt be able to take 4 HEAT shells from a slow heavy tank and just drive away while repairing.

You are traveling at up to 90kph or more. If a Vanguard can hit you 3 times with its slow reloading gun before you get away, you sure as hell should be dead.

Again, that is an issue with composite armor not the vehicle itself. Without it its speed and firepower are perfectly justified.

A fast dune buggy should not be able to take damage comparable to a light tank, period.

As for it costing s much as a lightning. Consider this: this is a vehicle that requires 2 people to operate properly (That people are able to be effective solo by swaping seats is again the fault of composite armor) so you have 2 guys taking turns pulling the vehicle, which in turn cuts the cost of pulling multiple buggies in half for the individual player.

I agree with every single one of your statements here.

[GeoGnome]

I only drive Harassers anymore. I see MBTs as inferior, not because they are less powerful, but because an MBT is a stupid design, forcing you to drive and gun at the same time.

Harassers have 1 thing about them I would say should be changed, make them loose the ability to repair on the move, or take away regen armor... one or the other.

As to Nerfing them overall though... I would say that you should bring the MBTs to match Harassers in usefulness. Give them a dedicated gunner, and give them greater utility beyond shooting things. Let them have a dedicated repair tool. Or greater abilities. Or make them into artillery platforms ontop of being MBTs. Or... Something. Because right now, as they are, I refuse to pull one. Buff the MBT, don't nerf the harasser.

[Varsam]

Uh, yes. Small arms fire>Missiles when dealing with a Harasser or with any of the ESFs. You may not destroy it, but you scare it off and that's more than enough.


Though it's obvously easier to whine for a nerf, until the vehicle becomes useless even against a single HE lightning.

How convenient that you completely ignored all the math behind what I said, which basically proves that small arms fire ISN'T effective at all at scaring off a harasser. If you're trying to troll, good job. If you're trying to prove you're right, try again, and this time actually address the points instead of willfully ignoring them.

[Belhade]

It's funny that you QFT and then immediately after say something that is literally impossible.

You can't shoot the occupants out of the Harasser? Even the rumble seat?

[AThreatToYou]

How convenient that you completely ignored all the math behind what I said, which basically proves that small arms fire ISN'T effective at all at scaring off a harasser. If you're trying to troll, good job. If you're trying to prove you're right, try again, and this time actually address the points instead of willfully ignoring them.

Battlefield scenarios tend to play out differently than the math does. In addition, you could have up to 12 guys shooting at a Harasser at once. I know in many situations, that is what it could come down to. I've also had a sniper shoot all 10 rounds in his semi-auto's clip at my Harasser from a damn good distance, and take away a very serious chunk of its HP. More than enough to grant an assist bonus provided I be destroyed, or perhaps make it more vulnerable to being shot by a tank.

Harassers aren't that hard to hit, although I would agree with 100% accuracy not being viable. On such a target, I would say between 50 and 75% accuracy; and at a range where the Harasser could engage you, I would claim 90% accuracy.

The biggest deal about small-arms fire is it forces the Harasser to retreat and repair lest it be surprised and shot dead by a tank. While it can take some hits, it savors being able to take every single one, and that is why I believe it is balanced. It really is clutch fun to drive because it is the perfect balance of vulnerable and invulnerable. Small arms fire is better than rocket/missile fire because the Harasser has a harder time avoiding it, meaning it will likely retreat.

[Varsam]

Battlefield scenarios tend to play out differently than the math does. In addition, you could have up to 12 guys shooting at a Harasser at once. I know in many situations, that is what it could come down to. I've also had a sniper shoot all 10 rounds in his semi-auto's clip at my Harasser from a damn good distance, and take away a very serious chunk of its HP. More than enough to grant an assist bonus provided I be destroyed, or perhaps make it more vulnerable to being shot by a tank.

Harassers aren't that hard to hit, although I would agree with 100% accuracy not being viable. On such a target, I would say between 50 and 75% accuracy; and at a range where the Harasser could engage you, I would claim 90% accuracy.

The biggest deal about small-arms fire is it forces the Harasser to retreat and repair lest it be surprised and shot dead by a tank. While it can take some hits, it savors being able to take every single one, and that is why I believe it is balanced. It really is clutch fun to drive because it is the perfect balance of vulnerable and invulnerable. Small arms fire is better than rocket/missile fire because the Harasser has a harder time avoiding it, meaning it will likely retreat.

All fair points, it is significantly easier to hit a harasser. But even with 12 people all focusing the same harasser (again, assuming there are no threats to that squad other than a single harasser, and assuming none of them get killed), it is simply not enough damage to reliably destroy the harasser before it dumps its magazine and flees. That's ultimately what the harasser is about, getting in, doing some damage, and then leaving before your opponents retaliate. It excels at this, a little TOO well. I keep seeing all these hypotheticals people keep posing where the harasser could conceivably be deterred or destroyed, but they always, always assume unrealistically ideal conditions for the defenders. The most common threads between them are only having to face a single harasser, and always outnumbering the harasser significantly.

In the hypothetical I constructed it assumed that the harasser stayed visible to the infantry for a prolonged period of time, which is extremely unrealistic - harassers are always moving, so it's inevitable that they become obstructed or simply run away. It takes infantry a very long time to kill a harasser - it only takes a single shell from a harasser to kill an infantryman. There's nothing stopping the harasser from killing one or two people, fleeing (repairing all the while), and coming back and doing it again until there are no infantry left to shoot back. You see it time and again, it's the reason harassers are so favored by higher BR players over even tanks. It is the new Liberator. It's the exact same problem we faced at launch with the lib, and people who (ab)use it (myself included) are responding the same way - they see something that gives lots of reward with relatively low risk as long as you have the skill to take advantage, and they defend that platform because they think it's their skill that's the deciding factor, not the underlying design of the platform itself, despite what EVERYone else is saying, including some of their own.

For my part, it's blatantly obvious that the harasser is superior to the other ground vehicles, and I will keep farming with it until they inevitably nerf it, because at the end of the day that's what's most important in this game - certs.

You can't shoot the occupants out of the Harasser? Even the rumble seat?

You can shoot the guy in the rumble seat, but that's the only guy you can damage.

[NewSith]

How convenient that you completely ignored all the math behind what I said, which basically proves that small arms fire ISN'T effective at all at scaring off a harasser. If you're trying to troll, good job. If you're trying to prove you're right, try again, and this time actually address the points instead of willfully ignoring them.

Threat2U basically reflected on what I was going to say. I was ignoring the points you made simply:
A) because of your "Uh, no"
b) because IDD, theory is very different from practice. I respect the calculations you've made, but since PlanetSide 2 is a game of situations (it's an FPS afterall) rather, than a classic RTS (not taking CoH or other tactical RTSes into consideration), you must never exclude the probabilities and actual combat scenarios from the overall picture.



As for the following statement:
For my part, it's blatantly obvious that the harasser is superior to the other ground vehicles, and I will keep farming with it until they inevitably nerf it, because at the end of the day that's what's most important in this game - certs.
... it's just some improper thinking. Scaring a Harasser off and destroying it both do the trick. Sure, the Harasser returns in the first case, but that small time window when it's absent is enough to make the Harasser lose control over the sitution and upon second arrival it may aswell meet its certain death.

EDIT: ...this is exactly why you rarely see good ESF pilots returning to places where they got damaged by even a single AA MAX and ran off from.

[bpostal]

The harasser shows how powerful the driver/gunner combo can be.

[phungus]

Harassers aren't that hard to hit, although I would agree with 100% accuracy not being viable. On such a target, I would say between 50 and 75% accuracy; and at a range where the Harasser could engage you, I would claim 90% accuracy.

Due to how hit detection is handled, getting over 50% hit rate is impossible. This is why most aimbotting profiles you check up are in the mid 40% range.

[phungus]

b) because IDD, theory is very different from practice. I respect the calculations you've made, but since PlanetSide 2 is a game of situations (it's an FPS afterall) rather, than a classic RTS (not taking CoH or other tactical RTSes into consideration), you must never exclude the probabilities and actual combat scenarios from the overall picture.

Yeah, and in actual combat scenarios I have seen time and time again harrassers zip in and zip out killing clumps of infantry while being exposing to no danger themselves since they have the health of a MBT and the speed of a flash.

Also in practice you see harrassers squaring up and going toe to toe with lightnings and MBTs and just outright owning armor. Composite + backseat repairing and the dps of a vulcan simply kills a MBT before it can fight back; Harrassers often don't even need to use their speed to wreck armor.

That's the real gameplay I see daily. If you think that's proper and makes sense mechanically then say so. But don't tell the person that shows you the math to explain what we see in gameplay that they are wrong. Don't tell them to stop "theorizing" when their math coincides exactly with what we actually see in game. You're the one who's theorizing, I've never seen massed infantry do anything to a harrasser but get it to bugger off for 20 or so seconds just to come right back and farm again - the notion that small arms is the counter to harrassers is absurd. You are only saying this because there simply is no counter to Harrassers, especially vulcan Harrassers since they can even outright kill MBTs and Liberators in a toe to toe engagement.

[phungus]

The harasser shows how powerful the driver/gunner combo can be.

I disagree. Harrassers show what happens when you give massive health to one of the fastest platforms in the game and topping it off with good offensive options.

If ESFs had the health of MBTs, they would wreck everything regardless of whether or not they had a dedicated driver system, or pilot controlled weapons.

[sylphaen]

So are we complaining that vehicles are too useful versus infantry ? Or that vehicle choices are not balanced relative to each other ?

I'd assume if a vehicle is OP, people would switch to the OP vehicle. Unless it requires something difficult in exchange for having more potential ? (let's say, teamwork?)

If people still choose to pull out solo tanks to be shot by harassers, I guess solo tanks are then still attractive in some way ?

Can a 2-man harasser beat 2 solo-MBTs ?
Can 2 solo-MBTs beat a 2-man liberator ?
Am I comparing apples to oranges ?
Are some vehicles meant to be effective in their niche market like shotguns are corners' best-friends ?

Will Alexandra marry John or reveal her disavowed love for Victor ?
:doh:

[Matamoros]

I dont think they are that bad, basically another high risk/high reward vehicle sort of like an esf is imo. I think any proficient AP tank can easily ward off a harrasser. A bit more diifficult with default rounds, but still shouldnt be that bad. People that use these things as long range stationary turrets are missing the point. Harrasser's greatest strength is it's agility and acceleration. So i found the best counter to be high velocity rounds, whether its 3 infantry shooting small arms, a halberd, AP rounds, turbo laser, dalton, etc.

[Saintlycow]

The composite armor is the problem. It simply should not provide protection against heay munitions. Basilisks AA guns small arms, bulldogs/furies fine. Tank shells HELL NO.

So true. Its kinda rediculous they get the best armor

[Kirotan]

I agree that the composite armor is a bit much. Armor is armor, but speed is also armor of a sort, and the Harasser has both.

Zipping in and out while being able to take a few shots gives the Harasser a very large cushion in terms of margin of error, while cutting down on their opponents. If one sneaks up on your wounded tank, you have to make every shot count on this vehicle zipping around at 70+ kph, bouncing up and down on the hills. If you lose, well, you lose...

...but if you "win," there's a good chance he's got the speed to be evasive as it flies over the hill and runs off to repair. You're still a sitting duck and even if the harasser didn't kill you, your position is known and now it's "do I keep repairing or do I limp somewhere else and try to hide again?"

I don't even drive tanks that much but when I do, I'd rather face anything but a harasser.

[Baptist]

The Harrasser nerf is coming, the tears will flow, it is simply not a balanced vehicle, the fact that it's not really using it's main gun to get the vast majority of it's kills means that it's to tanky, at the minute Harrassers are ramming into large amounts of Infantry and speeding away, only to repair in a relatively short period of time to do it all again.

Doing all this while the main gunner and the engineer in the back sing the Trololololo song.

[Shamrock]

Im also wondering if the ability of the harrasser to outrun HA lock-on rockets is intentional ?

[MrMak]

Im also wondering if the ability of the harrasser to outrun HA lock-on rockets is intentional ?

Ok....you are just making that up now. ESFs that go over 200kph on average dont outrun them and you are trying to tell me the harasser which can onlygo upt to about 100 can? Ive heit them with lock ons and have been hit by lockons whieldriving it. So...no.

Heck even the Phoenix can catch up given enaugh time.

[Qwan]

Guys I have no complaint about this vehicle, I mean even if they took away the armor, its still got speed and the weapons to take out armor. Im not going to lie, a harrasor with a halbert, runs circles around tanks, a solid shot in the rear of the MBT its over in a couple of shot (and believe me it can get behind a tank quickly). Throw a PPv on top and we run circles around sundy's, spawn boxes (cert pinyatas), and towers spamming. You want to know why it works so well, and why the harraser is so formitable. You have a driver and a gunner, the gunner gun's the driver drive's. Its plain and simple, now imagine if the MBT was design that way :rolleyes:. I maxed out reload on my halbert, as well as my boost and armor on my harraser, so its gets the rounds off faster, take more damage, and can get out of harms way. It survives longer then a MBT because the gunner of the tank is trying to drive as well as fire, and while hes backing into walls and running, and squishing his engi, im firing away, and my driver is steering clear of obsticles. So I dont want the hear about how the harraser is OP and stuff its not op its just properly designed for a game thats suppose to be combat on a large scale. This aint BF or CoD with there narrow ass shooter lane maps, and 64 player servers, it PS2, its a co-op game, on a map about the size of a continent. So dont take away my harrasers ability because some moron wanted the make the driver of the MBT the damn gunner as well. This shit pisses me off, :mad: they designed the MBT and every vehicle in this damn game so that an individual can do everything (gun and drive), but now that the harraser is proving quite formitable because of its driver, gunner design, you want to nerf it. They should lock this fucking thread and complain about how a MBT driver can actually gun, who the fuck came up with this concept, it was stupid and short sighted. So leave my harraser alone, and yea I get one everyday and I go out and run circles around tanks, and will continue to do so.

[Qwan]

The Harrasser nerf is coming, the tears will flow, it is simply not a balanced vehicle, the fact that it's not really using it's main gun to get the vast majority of it's kills means that it's to tanky, at the minute Harrassers are ramming into large amounts of Infantry and speeding away, only to repair in a relatively short period of time to do it all again.

Doing all this while the main gunner and the engineer in the back sing the Trololololo song.

Really baptist, really are you seriouse man, I swear if they nerf this vehicle, PS2 for me will truly go F2P (for me), I wont waste another dime on this game.

[wasdie]

Really baptist, really are you seriouse man, I swear if they nerf this vehicle, PS2 for me will truly go F2P (for me), I wont waste another dime on this game.

You're basing all of your fun off of a clearly over powered vehicle.

The thing takes too many hits and is too flexible. A single 2/3 harasser can rake in 50+ kills without much resistance because of how quickly and easily it can be repaired while still on the move. No other vehicle has those survival capabilities.

It's meant to harass enemies, not be a main player in a frontal attack. Right now both lightnings and MBTs take a back seat to the far superior harasser. You can pull one at every base in the game and keep it alive much better than any other ground vehicle in this game.

This has nothing to do with its split driver and gunner and everything to do with the ability to swap to the 3rd seat and repair while the thing still moves at it's normal speeds.

Tracking a parallel target on varying terrain, especially when said target can hop around like it's on the surface of the moon and make really tight turns, is extremely difficult even if the tank is at a complete standstill. I'm not even sure if a tank's cannon can track that fast. The driver/gunner thing is not the problem here. Everybody is trying to blame the harassers being overpowered on the design of the MBT which is just silly.

Stop ignoring the fact you can repair while on the move at full speed and trying to shift the blame. The harasser has too much survivability for how lethal it is. Simple as that.

[Qwan]

You're basing all of your fun off of a clearly over powered vehicle.

The thing takes too many hits and is too flexible. A single 2/3 harasser can rake in 50+ kills without much resistance because of how quickly and easily it can be repaired while still on the move. No other vehicle has those survival capabilities.

It's meant to harass enemies, not be a main player in a frontal attack. Right now both lightnings and MBTs take a back seat to the far superior harasser. You can pull one at every base in the game and keep it alive much better than any other ground vehicle in this game.

This has nothing to do with its split driver and gunner and everything to do with the ability to swap to the 3rd seat and repair while the thing still moves at it's normal speeds.

Tracking a parallel target on varying terrain, especially when said target can hop around like it's on the surface of the moon and make really tight turns, is extremely difficult even if the tank is at a complete standstill. I'm not even sure if a tank's cannon can track that fast. The driver/gunner thing is not the problem here. Everybody is trying to blame the harassers being overpowered on the design of the MBT which is just silly.

Stop ignoring the fact you can repair while on the move at full speed and trying to shift the blame. The harasser has too much survivability for how lethal it is. Simple as that.

I have to disagree with you on this one Wasbie, why down grade a vehicle because the MBT inability to hit it, or because your rocket launcher takes to long to lock on it. Im not ignoring the fact that you can repair it at full speed, if you take that away, Id just pull behind a mountain and repair and get back in the fight. And Im sorry to say it is the fact that the MBT was designed really bad, the driver/gunner design is just bad all around. Before the harraser all I drove was the sundy, and that was it, I hated all the vehicles that requried you to drive and gun, couldnt stand it. Trying to drive and gun was just to much of a pain in the ass. I couldnt have fun while I was in a tank. In the current driver/gunner situation I have to: Drive,Gun, Watch for mines, Watch for softies, Watch for obsticles, Look for targets, Avoid LA-C4, it was just to much work and no fun. On my harraser Driver: Watch for mines, and avoid getting blown up. Gunner: Kill targets.

And in short I think that because of the design of the MBT, people see the harraser as OP when its not, it cant take more hits then the Tank, it just moves faster, to avoid the hits, and you dont have to stop to fire and hit a target. I honestly believe that the Driver and Gunner design of the harraser is for more superior than the Driver/Gunner design of the MBT (blame the moron who designed the MBT). Imagine if the MBT was designed the same way as the harraser, it would be awesome.

[PredatorFour]

I have to disagree with you on this one Wasbie, why down grade a vehicle because the MBT inability to hit it..

I have to agree Qwan. If you can't hit the harrasser with a couple of mbt hits your loss... Doesn't mean they should be nerfed because you failed to hit them with bad accuracy.

[sylphaen]

You're basing all of your fun off of a clearly over powered vehicle.

This argument has been used oh, so many times ! I actually enjoy (in a very twisted way) seeing it used now since I remember how people have usually reacted to such statements so many times in the past !

"but I'm entitled to have this kind of fun so stop wasting others' fun !!1!"
:lol:

But in the end, which lobby supports the most rightful cause ??? The Pros ? The Antis ? Does it matter who is right or wrong ?

I may be off-topic but my opinion is thus:
solo tanks cause imbalance, repairing while moving causes imbalance, instant entry/exit causes imbalance, instant seat switching causes imbalance, etc...

The solutions are simple (maybe not their implementation but their logic at least):
Either a new balance acceptable for most players is found or most players will find an acceptable balance in other games.


Balance and diversity of gameplay is critical for a MMO because players and their tastes are diverse.

Edit: Figment may have more patience than I do to bother explaining what needs to be explained.

[Roderick]

I love the Harasser! One of the best vehicles to come to the game to bring excitement back to ground vehicle fighting.

Lets be honest here. If a tank that is fully certed with an experienced crew and using AP rounds loses to a Harasser, that is totally the fault of the tank crew. Most of the time I find tank drivers using HE rounds to farm infantry while zerging with many other vehicles from base to base.

I do agree that being able to repair the vehicle in the rumble seat should be removed to promote more risk and death to Harassers, but that is all. No need to change the armor values and try to weaken it any other way. Once you see this ability removed, then results will shift seeing as the damaged Harasser will have no choice but to the retreat to safety and repair the vehicle.

[MrMak]

Just did some testing with an armored Harasser in the VR. Normaly it takes 3 AP vanguard hits instead of 2.

However if the guy in the back were to start repairing after the 2nd hit it takes 6.


And there lies the problem.

The armor must be either made less evffective or the repair o0n them move mechanic must be removed.

Personaly id rather the repair mechanic stayed becouse that has an active temawork dynamic.


None in their right mind can say that its easy to hit a moving harasser 6 times with a slow relaoding cannon. Not to mention the ammount of hits goes upo every time oyu miss.

[mrmrmrj]

You can't shoot the occupants out of the Harasser? Even the rumble seat?

Yes you can. This is a good way to combat the repairing angle, but when I gun for a Harasser, I F2/F3 back and forth to repair and gun. I only repair when we are out of danger.

[wasdie]

I have to agree Qwan. If you can't hit the harrasser with a couple of mbt hits your loss... Doesn't mean they should be nerfed because you failed to hit them with bad accuracy.

I can hit them with a few AP rounds and they can run away, heal, and come back for more while you don't really get a chance to repair. My gunner can get out and repair but he would be exposed compared to the much better concealed 3rd seat of the harassers

Again, you are all trying to put the blame on the MBT which is wrong. MBTs aren't the only ones affected by the harasser's ability to take a lot of hits and repair on the go.

The harasser's ability to heal while moving full speed is the only thing that makes it too powerful. I'm not saying nerf the armor or nerf the weapon. Never once did I say that. You guys are trying to make it out like I want to nerf the actual stats of the harasser when really I just want the ability to keep it fully repaired while on the move somehow lessened so they aren't as over powered in every single situation the harasser finds itself in.

The poor design decision here is repairing vehicles internally. It's never worked out for balance in any game I've seen that in (Battlefield games mostly) and it doesn't work out here. It leads to the harasser being OP in every situation.

I don't get to use the harasser enough but I like it. It's a fun vehicle and has added a lot of fun combat to this game. I just feel in their current state they can survive for too long against too many threats thus shifting their role from a harasser to a front line vehicle that is the forefront of an attack.

Also the ability to pull it from every outpost gives it far more flexibility. If it had more of a transport role rather than an offensive vehicle role, it would be fine to pull from every outpost. However it has much more of an offensive role than a logistical transportation role.

[wasdie]

Just did some testing with an armored Harasser in the VR. Normaly it takes 3 AP vanguard hits instead of 2.

However if the guy in the back were to start repairing after the 2nd hit it takes 6.


And there lies the problem.

The armor must be either made less evffective or the repair o0n them move mechanic must be removed.

Personaly id rather the repair mechanic stayed becouse that has an active temawork dynamic.


None in their right mind can say that its easy to hit a moving harasser 6 times with a slow relaoding cannon. Not to mention the ammount of hits goes upo every time oyu miss.

Also after 2-3 hits the harasser can boost on out of the fight while repairing then come back. A tank or any other vehicle in the game requires itself to come to a stop for somebody to then expose themselves to repair the thing. It often takes multiple players using multiple weapons to stop a single harasser because of this.

This is why we see harassers able to take on every vehicle in this game. They have very few vulnerabilities even when not fully crewed.

[Thunderhawk]

They need to take away the Secondary MBT weapons that you can lob onto Harrassers.

Harrassers with Saron and Vulcans should not be a possibility because those are frickin beasts....

[MrMak]

The firepower is not the problem.


After reconsidering, the repairing on the move should go away.

Other vehicles have to chose between extra armor and auto repair. So should the Harasser.

would also adres the other issue with the Harasser. Composite armor beign the only worthwhile defence slot cert.

[Eggy]

This is why we see harassers able to take on every vehicle in this game. They have very few vulnerabilities even when not fully crewed.
They take damage from every single source in the game apart from heal grenades, conc nades and the recon dart.

A sky guard can kill a default harraser at range and while moving without reloading. It performs almost as well against a composite harraser.
3 skyguards against a 3/3 harraser is an easy kill for the skyguards.

An MCG can kill a default harraser at 30m without reloading.
3 McGs and its a super fast kill(for small arms).

An McG (30m) can set a full composite harraser on fire without reloading.

It takes 1 tank mine to set on fire, 2 kills it outright.

A full clip from a random SmG will do 1/3 HP to default harraser.
3 people with 3 SmGs will kill it.


Every MBT is capable of equiping 2 dedicated AV top guns.
The halberd does equal dps to the halberd harraser so combined with the the main gun thats a DPS advantage. Even if they have an AV max in the back.

The ES AV top guns all are "slightly" better than the "-H" variant. Again combined with the main gun thats a DPS advantage, and the MBT has higher armour.

The enforcer can kill a harraser without needing to reload.
It takes 3 halberd shots for default and 5 for full composite.
Im not sure about the Saron, havent used it for a while.

There is a 180 degree arc on the back of the harraser which "can" trigger a repair. At full speed your likely to use 2/3 of your heat bar, not repairing while you look for the sweet spot (which moves every time you switch seats). The chances of you finding this while under turbo are slim to none.
1/3 of the time my team retreats we actualy get out and repair around a rock or at an ammo tower as its more reliable.

The only reason this is so effective is that there are lots of max rank engis gunning and driving harrasers fighting against 1 person MBTs with LA drivers.

With its 8s sheild AP/HEAT and Enforcer/Halberd a vanguard is capable of taking an enemy MBT or Harasser from full HP to dead without taking a single point of damage.

With its turbo , a MaG is able to 1 shot a harraser. Just ram it at speed and even a full composite harrser is insta gibbed. You can do this with a sunderer and an MBT. You can also do it with an harraser, if you time your break and get the angles correct you survive.

Hitting and engi turret stops a harraser dead in its tracks.
If it was turboing it will most likley flip it.

An engi turret deployed just as a harrser drives over it also insta gibbs.

When the harraser boosts away to repair, you have the exact same amount of time and the opportunity to have 2 engineers repair your MBT. You can also use that time to move or find cover. This works great, espcaily if you drop tank mines and engi turrets at the point you were at.

[MrMak]

O call bull shit on the skyguard vs Harasser think There have been several instances where ihave benn locked at point blank range with a harasser and unlode an entire vlip into him while he was shooting at me he didnt even start to smoke.

[Mordelicius]

Copy and pasted from the GU11 feedback thread:
Harassers are way OP - Somehow the Devs got suckered into changing the projected price of 400 to 300. This vehicle is not a buggy. It's a highly mobile tank with a buggy skin. Consider these insane advantages:
- Can repaired on the go.
- High DPS
- High evasion rating
- Good armor ( with mobility, it's already more survivable than a tank).
- Easily runs over players especially on Sunderer spawn clumps.
- Has limited counters. Very hard to hit with dumbfire Rockets and even AV Spear turret.
- Has 2 passengers that can dish out damage.
Some suggested fixes:
- If they can repaired on the go, the armor should be go down significantly. If not remove the passenger repair feature.
- As many has suggested before, they should take alot of damage when running over players.
- The price has to be 400 since it is already better than a tank. I've predicted before that their usage will easily eclipse the lightning once they've been certed. That's why I've been calling for price increase even before then.
- Tone down the AV and Anti-infantry Dps.

In essence, what's broke is this: there are simply not enough DPS from any counters to take down a Harasser with it's speed, maneuverability, armor and 3rd seat repair, before it easily escapes.

Hit it with a AV spear turret, it will scamper.
Hit it with Dumbfire, it will skitter away.
Hit it will small arms, it will laugh it off.
etc etc.

You get the idea. It practically has no weakness. Even if you ambushed it, hitting it the second time would be extremely difficult. There's not enough DPS landing.

And this is all happening while it's dishing out damage. If the tables are turned and the Harasser is attacking/ambushing, other ground units will have a very hard time escaping.

Currently, the Harasser's far too OP. The armor has to go down significantly, and the DPS has to be toned down (especially Anti-Infantry). It's supposed to be a buggy, not a tank.

In a nutshell, it's Magrider part II. Only this time, it's not empire specific. It's doing what Magriders used to do. Run over players, ambush, escape, ambush, escape. It's a very low risk, very high reward vehicle.

[Sledgecrushr]

I think the harasser is pure gameplay goodness. No nerfs.

[Sunrock]

I don't like the fact I can see a buggy square up to a MBT and kill it. It just looks wrong. But from a gameplay perspective it kinda makes sense.

I suppose I'm biased, but it's solely due to the model the Harraser uses, but I think an AP round should set a Harraser on fire and Harrassers should fear tank rounds more (they seem fine in terms of weakness to any weapon my ESF or lib has). It does seem apropriate though that it's as tough as it is considering it's a team vehicle that uses 2 players at least to really optimally use.

Very fun vehicle too as is.

Wait a minute now... How in the hell can a harasser kill a MBT using AP rounds? I have killed a bunch of harassers in my prowler using AP and they have not even got close to take me out.

Maybe you need to aim better?

[Sunrock]

Copy and pasted from the GU11 feedback thread:


In essence, what's broke is this: there are simply not enough DPS from any counters to take down a Harasser with it's speed, maneuverability, armor and 3rd seat repair, before it easily escapes.

Hit it with a AV spear turret, it will scamper.
Hit it with Dumbfire, it will skitter away.
Hit it will small arms, it will laugh it off.
etc etc.

You get the idea. It practically has no weakness. Even if you ambushed it, hitting it the second time would be extremely difficult. There's not enough DPS landing.

And this is all happening while it's dishing out damage. If the tables are turned and the Harasser is attacking/ambushing, other ground units will have a very hard time escaping.

Currently, the Harasser's far too OP. The armor has to go down significantly, and the DPS has to be toned down (especially Anti-Infantry). It's supposed to be a buggy, not a tank.

In a nutshell, it's Magrider part II. Only this time, it's not empire specific. It's doing what Magriders used to do. Run over players, ambush, escape, ambush, escape. It's a very low risk, very high reward vehicle.

Lock on missiles and MBT with a good driver and a gunner will stop a harasser without problems. Even without a gunner a good MBT driver should not have a big problem if he keep his cool.

And all this QQ from infantry that vehicles killing them is ludicrous. Vehicles should own infantry so I say it works as intended. Stop foot zerging.

[Qwan]

Also after 2-3 hits the harasser can boost on out of the fight while repairing then come back. A tank or any other vehicle in the game requires itself to come to a stop for somebody to then expose themselves to repair the thing. It often takes multiple players using multiple weapons to stop a single harasser because of this.

This is why we see harassers able to take on every vehicle in this game. They have very few vulnerabilities even when not fully crewed.

Ok yea I think that the repair issue is a little crazy, maybe if they can slow the repair in half, while the engi is in the vehicle. But over all I think this is a interesting feature. I mean if you think about it the rear passanger is half way out of the vehicle. And I still think the Main battle tank is a horrible driver/gunner design :p

Wait a minute now... How in the hell can a harasser kill a MBT using AP rounds? I have killed a bunch of harassers in my prowler using AP and they have not even got close to take me out.

Maybe you need to aim better?

You havent ment the wolf pack yet ;)

[Sledgecrushr]

Quan if you are solo driving a mbt and a wolf pack of harassers gets you then you should probably die.

[Qwan]

Quan if you are solo driving a mbt and a wolf pack of harassers gets you then you should probably die.

Sledge you will rarely find me in a MBT, I hate the concept of driver/gunner, I only drive my tank when my outfit have big magrider events. Other than that, it sits on moth balls, I think I got a zoom cert and thats about it. But my harraser on the other hand, Im still working on maxing out my halbert and PP cannon, and im just a cert away from maxing out my armor. I just hate the over all design of the fixed gun, and just everything about the MBT's regardless of faction. I hope one day they come out with another MBT that will require a two man crew, I know thats wishful thinking but hey, ..... When you wish upon a star, Makes no difference who you are.... <--- me in glee mode :groovy:

[SadlyJack]

I dropped mad money into my harasser for spinning rims, lights, an enforcer and an MLG decal and I play in it every night with my boyfriend on skype and we rack up 1000 kills an hour and nothing ever kills us.

It should not be nerfed.

[Qwan]

I dropped mad money into my harasser for spinning rims, lights, an enforcer and an MLG decal and I play in it every night with my boyfriend on skype and we rack up 1000 kills an hour and nothing ever kills us.

It should not be nerfed.

Agree agree agree, its a team game, and when you work in teams you get rewarded Aaaaaawwwwwwwsssooooooommmeee. :thumbsup:

[Artimus]

the reason that a Harasser can kick an MBT's ass when used effectively is simply due to the fact that tanks don't have dedicated main gunners.

DO IT SOE.

nerfing wont do anything, it would just piss people off. the harrasser as it is is simply perfect, and is probably the best vehicle in the game simply due to the teamwork it requires. tanks should of had that since the start.

For a second I thought I was the only one who realized this when I was scrolling through.:p

[Kirotan]

Agree agree agree, its a team game, and when you work in teams you get rewarded Aaaaaawwwwwwwsssooooooommmeee. :thumbsup:

I agree. Teamwork should trump all. I think you will have no problem bringing the Liberator back to the way it was at launch then, yes?

Clearly it wasn't overpowered; it just got nerfed because of too many people whining about a teamwork oriented vehicle getting its just reward.

[wasdie]

I'm really hoping the last few posts are pure sarcasm.

[Kirotan]

I'm really hoping the last few posts are pure sarcasm.

It's the same thing that happens whenever something isn't perceived as balanced. The users of it come out in force to defend it against any and all detractors because they believe that it's not overpowered. They believe it's their personal skill, teamwork, l33t dps or what have you that attributes to its success.

This whole thread is a movie sequel called "Pilots vs Planetside part II: Enter the Harasser." It's the same argument when people jumped all over ESF's/Libs, and pilots would stick their fingers in their ears and go "lalalalalalalala stfu noobs!"

Which is something I can see since I am a pilot. I didn't like it at first, but the game is better with the changes made.

[Qwan]

I'm really hoping the last few posts are pure sarcasm.

Ok wasdie let them nerf the armor of the harraser, and the repair, I still see it taking out tanks, with the weapons that is has on board. Just the speed alone will get it out of trouble. I save my turbo boost till I need it, and thats when Im trying to get over a hill or out of range of a tank. So let them lower the armor and take away the back door repair. I still think that the harraser will still take out a tank.

It's the same thing that happens whenever something isn't perceived as balanced. The users of it come out in force to defend it against any and all detractors because they believe that it's not overpowered. They believe it's their personal skill, teamwork, l33t dps or what have you that attributes to its success.

This whole thread is a movie sequel called "Pilots vs Planetside part II: Enter the Harasser." It's the same argument when people jumped all over ESF's/Libs, and pilots would stick their fingers in their ears and go "lalalalalalalala stfu noobs!"

Which is something I can see since I am a pilot. I didn't like it at first, but the game is better with the changes made.

I dont like calling people noobs, and just so you know it does take skill, hitting a moving target while your moving, (you should know pilot) it requires some pretty good skills. Which is how its done most of the time when me and my buddy's are going up against another harraser or even some tanks. When we travel in packs we call out tanks over TS and every harraser hits it with everything, including rocks and a kitchen sink, even AV maxes if there in the back as we drive away. So its not just a bunch of people using an OP'ed vehicle, running around random on the battle field, we actually took what the developers gave us and were using it in a tacticle way, so because people are using somthing tactfully, and its working we should nerf it. Just so you know I was upset when they nerfed the pilots because of people whining, my solution was to come up with a way for softies to defend themselves better, like burster maxes, and skyguards. I mean most intelegent pilots wouldnt fly into a group of bursters and skyguards, they would look for the troops in the open with no support (sound familiar) Thats you using your head and farming that xp. But like I said to wasbie let them take the repair and the armor well just change up tactics.

P.S. the lib still kicks ass, Zepher for the win.

[MrMak]

And here we have it if the composite armor gets nerfed or the repair on them move mechanic gets removed (again it has to be one or the other NOT both) GOOD Harassr crews should still be able to rip apart solo tanking noobs becouse they are unlikely to score those needed 3/4 hits.

Its the not so good drivers who overly rely on the armor/repair combo that will suffer.

[wasdie]

Ok wasdie let them nerf the armor of the harraser, and the repair, I still see it taking out tanks, with the weapons that is has on board. Just the speed alone will get it out of trouble. I save my turbo boost till I need it, and thats when Im trying to get over a hill or out of range of a tank. So let them lower the armor and take away the back door repair. I still think that the harraser will still take out a tank.


I never called for an armor reduction myself. It could probably use a slight one against AP rounds. I just want the repairing on the move to be removed or heavily altered so the thing can't just soak up damage.

I'm completely alright with a good harasser crew being able to take out a tank. However right now they can take out a tank and then some all while taking fire from multiple sources. Other vehicles crumble to pieces in the same situation. It's just too survivable for their availability and speed.

I believe a solo tank in this game should be cannon fodder. Sure you CAN do it and if you mass enough tanks they are going to be a force, but the resource cost would be quite high and individual tank effectiveness would be low.

I rarely pull a tank if I can't get a secondary gunner. Without one a tank is nothing more than a heavier lightning of which, in my opinion, is less useful than a lighting due to their size and speed. If I'm going solo the lightning is pretty much the vehicle to use, but it is nice having the option to be able to pull a vanguard whenever without having to rely on a gunner to make the shots for me.

I hate given up that kind of control. This is also why I don't really use a harasser or a liberator.

[Shamrock]

Ok....you are just making that up now. ESFs that go over 200kph on average dont outrun them and you are trying to tell me the harasser which can onlygo upt to about 100 can? Ive heit them with lock ons and have been hit by lockons whieldriving it. So...no.

Heck even the Phoenix can catch up given enaugh time.

Im not making it up, ive sat on the tower pad at Jaegers recently firing off shot after shot of solid locks at harrasers around the tower and got no hit indicators; either (a) they are hitting turbo and outrunning the rocklet (b) hitting smoke and its not rendering the smoke effect (c) or its an in-game bug. Either way I sat there firing multiple times with a lock-on launcher and didn't register a single hit.

[Kirotan]

I'm fine with just removing the ability to repair from the 3rd seat. Everything else about the Harasser is fine IMO.

[typhaon]

Im not making it up, ive sat on the tower pad at Jaegers recently firing off shot after shot of solid locks at harrasers around the tower and got no hit indicators; either (a) they are hitting turbo and outrunning the rocklet (b) hitting smoke and its not rendering the smoke effect (c) or its an in-game bug. Either way I sat there firing multiple times with a lock-on launcher and didn't register a single hit.

I don't think it's so much that they 'outrun' them... it's just that in order to actually score a hit - you have to catch a harasser in just the right moment. If it's heading perpendicular to you at any decent speed... you will NEVER score a hit with a lock-on - it will always crash into the ground a good distance behind them... pretty much the same for one that reverses direction during the flight of your missile.

Also, because they move all over the place.. chances they will pass behind some obstacle either A) making it hard to get a lock or B) impeding the flight of your missile, is also very high.

On a scale 1-5 (1 being easy) of hitting a vehicle with a lock-on... MBT = 1, Lightning = 2, and Harasser = 5.

[Baneblade]

Composite should offer negative protection against AP.

[Artalion]

I think it is worth pointing out that we are comparing the Harrasser, a light vehicle, to an MBT; the heaviest vehicle in the game. They should not be evenly matched; they should not be comparable at all.

I've read various ways of "countering" it, which involves an entire squad of infantry, a firing line of tanks, and various other iterations. These are not small things to call up.

They appear to make flashes obsolete. Harassers move faster than Flashes, are tougher than flashes, they carry more people, and can inflict quite a bit more damage. When flashes got the wraith cloak, we saw them being used to run down infantry. That was annoying, but at least you could kill it with a well placed rocket. Harassers don't turn invisible (thank God!) but they do not need to rely on surprise in order to succeed.

The only ways that I have been able to kill them reliably is with anti-tank mines and lock on missile launchers. For the former, I need a narrow choke point, which makes it difficult to implement in most bases. For the latter, I need to get to an elevated position, lock on to the target, fire, then repeat.

At a particular tower fight, there was a particularly energetic defense which destroyed wave after wave of MBT's, Lightnings, Sunderers, and Harassers. Our defensive line, including AV MAX's, AV Engineers, Lock On Heavies, and Base Turrets were put to bear on this attacking force and we were able to defend this base against everything with ease, except Harassers. Only Lock-On missiles were capable of keeping track of these vehicles at that range and over that terrain and if it were not for the massed fire being applied to them, I doubt that they would have been brought down.

With an engineer in the back, they are able to repair themselves faster than any existing auto-repair system, and unlike the auto-repair, there is no waiting for the vehicle to stop taking damage.

I think this is enough to establish that they are breaking the game.

[Eggy]

I think this is enough to establish that they are breaking the game.
Its enough to establish that people have been playing the game wrong for months, and continue to do so.

Every MBT has the choice of 2 AV top guns. Combined with a single shot from any main cannon, or (random damage from any source) They all kill the harraser much quicker than the harraser can kill the MBT.
If your sat in a 1 person MBT , out on your own. You pulled the wrong vehicle from the veh bay.
There are 2 guns on the MBT with 2 seats.
There are 1 guns on the harraser with 3 seats.
There are 2 guns on and ESF with 1 seat, and it can fly.
People need to start pulling the appropriate vehicle for the group they play with.

There are 3 seats in the harraser.
A harraser VS 3 lightnings is a dead harraser.
A harraser VS 1 lightning and 2/2 MBT is a dead harraser.

Small arms fire from 1 guy tickles (no resources.).
Small arms fire from 3 guys will cause a harraer to consider the damage (no resources).
Small arms fire from half a squad (still no resources) can easily kill a 3 man harraser that cost someone resources.
Half a squad of people should have access to at a minumum tanks mines, some kind of rocket, and engi turret and possibly an AV max. All of which will make that kill much easier.
BUT. Half a squad of people shouldnt be out in the open where the harraser can pick them off. They should be using there own vehicles, again the right tool for the job.

With an engineer in the back, they are able to repair themselves faster than any existing auto-repair system, and unlike the auto-repair, there is no waiting for the vehicle to stop taking damage. This realy isnt as easy or as effective as people seem to think. While your repairing most of the damage directed at the harraser hits you. A large number of lockons hit you in the face. You cant use the entire surface to reapir on, it takes time to find the sweet spot, and while your looking your over heat bar is going up.
Any of the top guns, fury, maruader, saron, vulcan, enforcer can kill the repairer with 1-2 shots and the AV ones continue to dish out large amounts of damage to the harraser.
The no1 counter to harrasers, is harrasers. Just pull yourn own from a base back and go kill it.

[typhaon]

Eggy - if HA had a shoulder-fired nuclear missile launcher, you could say the #1 counter would be another HA. That doesn't make it a balanced item.

You can tell us as much as you want how we aren't playing right - but we are all playing the game. We all see what's going on. It's going to get nerfed. You know it. We know it. Everyone knows it.

The Harrasser is a 3-man light transport, with 1 weapon on top. It wasn't meant to be the pinnacle of armored combat/LordoftheBattlefield.

[Qwan]

Eggy - if HA had a shoulder-fired nuclear missile launcher, you could say the #1 counter would be another HA. That doesn't make it a balanced item.

You can tell us as much as you want how we aren't playing right - but we are all playing the game. We all see what's going on. It's going to get nerfed. You know it. We know it. Everyone knows it.

The Harrasser is a 3-man light transport, with 1 weapon on top. It wasn't meant to be the pinnacle of armored combat/LordoftheBattlefield.

This is true it was not ment to be the pinnacle of armored combat, but with the current available set up's it can be quite formitable. And Im not talking the 3rd person repair slot, im talking weapons, and the Driver and gunner set up. Just from what I experiance, even with two man crews in the MBT is a sence of panic. If a harraser gets off the first shot in the rear of the tank, the driver usually starts to panic, swings his gun around looking for the assalent, most stop moving, some keep moving and get stuck or start running over friendlys trying to manuver out of the way. The secondary gunner, will try to track but by that time a well certed harraser already gets off a second shot and now the paniced driver/gunner of the tank is really getting spazed, and the secondary gunner cant get on target. Maybe they should give the secondary gunner a stablization ability, this way the secondary gun will stay were the gunner aims, I dont know if your familiar with the M1 Abrams tank but it has this ability, this is why the gunner can fire in mid air, and also the BFV (Bradley fighting vehicle), this will help the secondary gunners stay on target alot, and this is not a locking system, its just keeps the gun stable and able for the secondary gunner to stay on target.

@wasbie: Yea I agree with the AP round being able to piece the Composite on the harraser, that makes sence. If a harraser has more armor on it, it should slow down as well because thats more weight on the vehicle. So I could see some tweeks that can be made, AP rounds should punch threw, the composite, I mean thats what AP rounds are designed for right. And maybe make the repair down to half speed if the guy is in the third seat.

[Kirotan]

I killed 9 Harassers yesterday with a lightning, including some higher end ones with BR70+ crews in them.

HEAT, Racer 3, Stealth Armor, IR Smoke.

I would hide behind a rock with desert or forest scrub in a contested area(depends on which part of Indar I'm at), and let them drive by towards my allies. They go LOL'ing through infantry and around other tanks, and while smoking and driving away to repair, I would be waiting for them on the return trip.

Stealth armor is so vastly underrated btw. I can't tell you how many ESF's, libs, and vehicles would drive right past me while I'm sitting under a tree.

[Baneblade]

I've used stealth armor tier 1 almost exclusively. I use it on my Vanguard.

[Rumblepit]

you want some advice? stop running he,and stop spamming doors and windows,start running ap, and get a second gunner. if you still die to a harasser you might want to stick to a support role.

[Nur]

The composite armor is the problem. It simply should not provide protection against heay munitions. Basilisks AA guns small arms, bulldogs/furies fine. Tank shells HELL NO.

TRUE. This is also what I think.:D

[typhaon]

you want some advice? stop running he,and stop spamming doors and windows,start running ap, and get a second gunner. if you still die to a harasser you might want to stick to a support role.

Because it's possible to configure a MBT that on flat terrain... if the harrasser decides to hang around... can deal with it - does not make the harrasser balanced.

Harrassers also die if they drive into a 100-man foot zerg... big whoops!

That's the thing I feel some of you can't wrap your minds around. Just because something can die and can be defeated under certain circumstances doesn't make it balanced.

[Obstruction]

That's the thing I feel some of you can't wrap your minds around. Just because something can die and can be defeated under certain circumstances doesn't make it balanced.

just because something survives or succeeds certain circumstances, and you can throw around the word "balance," doesn't make it overpowered.

just because something fun gets put into a game doesn't mean that all the party poopers need to come out and get it ruined.

1. infantry and sunderer teams need to step up their damn game and stop just parking the thing someplace and running off. use tactics and combined arms to protect your assets.

2. if the MBT is actually supposed to be good then make it not suck so bad. harassers are good because they are well designed, fun, and effective. nerf is not always the answer, a nerf for a nerf leaves the whole game watered down and shitty.

3. also consider that this game is STILL not designed for defenders. a vehicle designed for assault and mobility is probably going to be really successful.

[phungus]

2. if the MBT is actually supposed to be good then make it not suck so bad. harassers are good because they are well designed, fun, and effective. nerf is not always the answer, a nerf for a nerf leaves the whole game watered down and shitty.

That is a very good point. I feel like a Harrasser nerf is immenent, but I do hope the devs consider buffing the MBT as an alternative.

Still though, I think for it's speeed AP tank rounds should be far more lethal to Harrassers.

[Rumblepit]

ap is planetside's version of a rail gun,,,,the thing can pick off air np and your crying about the harasser. the problem is there are way to many scrubs running AI loadouts on their armor.

you know the only people crying about this are the scrubs that are getting farmed while trying to farm spawn rooms.

here is me lol at you. :) The Money Pit Bathtub Laugh Scene.wmv - YouTube

[Baneblade]

ap is planetside's version of a rail gun,,,,the thing can pick off air np and your crying about the harasser. the problem is there are way to many scrubs running AI loadouts on their armor.

That is some spin you got there.

[Rumblepit]

That is some spin you got there.
do you think a mbt with AP and a halbert would have a problem taking out a harasser? nahhhhhh lol if this was the case then there would be reason for concern. this thread is a direct result of some nooob getting owned 1 to many times while trying to farm a spawn room.

[phungus]

ap is planetside's version of a rail gun,,,,the thing can pick off air np and your crying about the harasser. the problem is there are way to many scrubs running AI loadouts on their armor.

you know the only people crying about this are the scrubs that are getting farmed while trying to farm spawn rooms.

Is this directed at me? You know this is a classic irrelevant ad hominem if it is.

First off, I don't tank, at all. The only armor I use is the sunderer, so buffing AP against Harrassers would not help me in any way I am aware of. Secondly I just bought the Saron and Vulcan on my Harrassers because if there is going to be something as strong as a Harrasser with the ESW secondary, I'm in and I really am fine with how they are - it just seems off to me visually so I comment (especially graphically where you see Harrasers just square up to tanks and kill them, but like I noted above and how you ignored and instead went for an irrelevant ad hominem I think this could more be an issue with the state of MBTs). I fly an ESF always, or almost always, I don't think the ESF should be buffed vs Harrassers.

I really feel like you know that the Harrasser vs MBT balance is off, and that's why you're just being defensive and throwing out ad hominems instead of commenting on what I said.

[Rumblepit]

Is this directed at me? You know this is a classic irrelevant ad hominem if it is.

First off, I don't tank, at all. The only armor I use is the sunderer, so buffing AP against Harrassers would not help me in any way I am aware of. Secondly I just bought the Saron and Vulcan on my Harrassers because if there is going to be something as strong as a Harrasser with the ESW secondary, I'm in and I really am fine with how they are - it just seems off to me visually so I comment (especially graphically where you see Harrasers just square up to tanks and kill them, but like I noted above and how you ignored and instead went for an irrelevant ad hominem I think this could more be an issue with the state of MBTs). I fly an ESF always, or almost always, I don't think the ESF should be buffed vs Harrassers.

I really feel like you know that the Harrasser vs MBT balance is off, and that's why you're just being defensive and throwing out ad hominems instead of commenting on what I said.

i think the balance is fine between the 2, and nothing was directed towards you. harassers are armor, and if your setup to engage infantry in your armor then you going to be gimp against other armor. 90% of all the armor i see in the game are running HE and shooting doors and windows, all day everyday.
i dont tank either, check my stats 98% of my time spent in game is as infantry. but if there is armor all over a base ill be happy to pull back to another base pull a harasser and own all their armor with av.and i will continue to farm them until they start pulling av armor. its like saying esf are op when you refuse to pull AA. lighting, mbt, sunderer, anyone of these 3 can take out a harasser with no problem as long as its set up to be AV.

i can kill armor with my murader, takes over 100 rounds to take out a sundy, dose that mean armor is op? nope because it owns infantry. dont cry about dying to armor when your not running AV. its like washing dishes with a apple,it makes no f ing since.

[Baneblade]

do you think a mbt with AP and a halbert would have a problem taking out a harasser? nahhhhhh lol if this was the case then there would be reason for concern. this thread is a direct result of some nooob getting owned 1 to many times while trying to farm a spawn room.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I run an AP/Enf Vanguard 98% of the time I'm driving an MBT. I have issues with Harassers mainly because of how easy it is for them to shrug off hits and repair before we can get another bead on it. AP doesn't do enough to Harassers for how easy it is for then to reciprocate.

[OCNSethy]

Off topic... what are these 'scrubs' people keep referring too?

[Artimus]

Off topic... what are these 'scrubs' people keep referring too?


lol umm "scrubs" are people who are no bueno at this game

[OCNSethy]

lol umm "scrubs" are people who are no bueno at this game

Oh, okay... Im sure you are being polite and thanks. Id not heard of that term before.

[Kirotan]

Here's a good scrub article.

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/intermediates-guide.html

[Vanir]

3 man MBT, driver can concentrate on driving and maneuvering, while gunners can focus on shooting.

[Obstruction]

3 man MBT, driver can concentrate on driving and maneuvering, while gunners can focus on shooting.

and increase speed, mobility, and armor. and making harasser composite like 10% weaker to AP is probably ok, but if you buff the MBT correctly it's not needed.

[Baneblade]

If my AP hit bounced the Harasser off the mountain on the other side of him, I'd be okay with it doing the damage it does now.

[Shamrock]

Composite should offer negative protection against AP.

Pretty much this as a viable solution in the rock paper scissors that is PS2.

http://www.mike.geiger.ca/blog/uploads/photos/2008/200806/HELIROCK.jpg

[Mordelicius]

Another thing they need to fix in the broken Harasser is the firing arc.

They can go to the top of a highest mountain. Deliver endless barrage and you can barely see them from below.

It's like the AV Mana turret when engineers fire on the highest cliff All you see is the nose....:doh:

[Whiteagle]

Every MBT has the choice of 2 AV top guns. Combined with a single shot from any main cannon, or (random damage from any source) They all kill the harraser much quicker than the harraser can kill the MBT.
If your sat in a 1 person MBT , out on your own. You pulled the wrong vehicle from the veh bay.
There are 2 guns on the MBT with 2 seats.
There are 1 guns on the harraser with 3 seats.
There are 2 guns on and ESF with 1 seat, and it can fly.
People need to start pulling the appropriate vehicle for the group they play with.
Now if only there were some mechanic that required both weapons to be manned in order for the tank to be remotely operational.