Should the Enforcer and Sauron be better at AA, or is the Vulcan too good at AA?

[phungus]

What are your opinions on this people? It doesn't seem too bad, really, just the only problem is only TR can gib ESFs and libs as easily with MBTs and Harrassers.

One thing is for sure though, as a fourth factioner the TR's striker and Vulcan make the air game easier, and different. It doesn't seem right to me. The stiker is getting changed in the ESF update (or we can assume so based on the notes from the devs). So in my opinion the striker isn't worth discussing, until we see the ESF update. We know it's broken, but the devs do to and are presumably fixing it (actually have the standard G2A be fire and forget while the striker needs to hold the lock would be a perfect way to balance things). The Vulcan though, it's good at killing ESFs, straight up - it's no Skyguard, but it is superior to an AA MAX at close AA support. Where the vulcan really shines is shattering libs and gals though.

I think it seems fine where the Vulcan is in terms of AA. The Vulcan is an interesing trade off with the Walker; I think it's just superior though overall. The Walker is better at range whereas the vulcan vaporizes ESFs in CQC (from an air perspective, wish I could put a vulcan on my mossy), but against heavy aircraft I think the Vulcan is just superior in every way to the walker - against ESFs it's totally situational.

It's an interesting balance thing, and on the main forums everyone focuses on needing to nerf the Vulcan. But I don't really buy that. If the Sauron and Enforcer were brought up to the Vulcan's level in terms of AA duty, it could be really interesting.

[DarkBalths]

Vulcan is OP against air,
Enforcer is way OP against armour,
Saron is (not so much since the nerf) OP against infantry.

[Selerox]

I saw a trio of Prowlers acting as an AA battery yesterday. So yeah, it's OP.

[Falcon_br]

Everything is op in this game.
I am using the vulcan for since day one and didn´t show any air unit with it yet, maybe one or two, but not as many as people claim here.

[KesTro]

I do think the Vulcan is easily the strongest of the three but the Dev's already said that every faction will have a weapon with similar functionality to the vulcan at some point. So good news, you can kill the TR with their own niche.

[phungus]

I do think the Vulcan is easily the strongest of the three but the Dev's already said that every faction will have a weapon with similar functionality to the vulcan at some point. So good news, you can kill the TR with their own niche.

Cool. I don't really have a problem with the vulcan for AA against ESFs, I do think it's OP against gals and libs straight up though. If all other factions get something similar - short ranged monster that shreds anything at close range, then that would be cool. I just don't like how TR has an advantage protecting their armor since ESFs have to stay about twice the distance from Prowler's and TR Harrassers then mossys have to stay from the NC and VS equivalents.

Vulcan is cool though, it really doesn't feel broken to me - just wholly unfair that only TR get it.

[Rolfski]

Vulcan still sucks against infantry which is the big trade-off here.

[TheAadvark]

That's the problem the word Over Powered. Your looking too long and too hard at 1v1 situations whereas in planetside 2 you should be looking at sqaud/platoon vs one another.No weapon is overpowered when teamwork is evident. I'm happy with the vulcan I like the way it sounds and fires but if you were to call in soldiers a few rockets/mines/C4 and it's gone.

Also I hope to god SOE does not give you guys Vulcan equivalents no no no, it's ours our identity we are already the most generic faction out there.

The TR have already had it hard up the ass and none of our Factions supposed uniqueness has held true. Everyone has negligible differences in R.O.F. which is the TR's preserve , leave us be I love my faction ( maybe not most of the people in it) leave it be please !

[Osskscosco]

Sauron from lord of the rings? Or we are talking about the Saron?

[Obstruction]

one beam to rule them all

[Osskscosco]

one beam to rule them all

Release the nazguls! They will take care of the ESFs.

[snafus]

It does have a major trade off at being a sub par infantry killer. But it still currently shreds aircraft much to quickly from a balance perspective. As our outfit specifically pulls them to hunt aircraft at times it is just silly to watch.

[AThreatToYou]

People seem to forget there's a shotgun version of the Enforcer that is effectively worthless.

[bpostal]

Vulcan is OP against air,
Enforcer is way OP against armour,
Saron is (not so much since the nerf) OP against infantry.

I was going to type something up this morning when I saw this thread. I couldn't think of what to type.
This, up there ^^^ That's what I wanted to say.

Everything's OP, it just depends on what it's OP against.

[maradine]

Vulcan is OP against air,
Enforcer is way OP against armour,
Saron is (not so much since the nerf) OP against infantry.

It's almost like . . . the factions have different strengths. Fascinating!

[phungus]

It's almost like . . . the factions have different strengths. Fascinating!

As a fourth factioning ESF pilot I can assure the factions are not ballanced and different - TR is simply better at AA and much harder to play against in the air. Mostly because of the Strikers (which are getting fixed it seems), but also the Vulcan makes things different. If I roll my standard rotary + A2Am (I love abusing OP weapons, see the Battlefield friends episode on USGS Frag Rounds to know I how feel running A2Am) I can kill lone NC and VS Harrassers, and also harrass armor - I cannot do this against TR because they have the vulcan and that's noteworthy.

I'm fine with the concept of a close range AV and AA killer (but again, the Vulcan is just OP against heavy aircraft, there is no way it should shoot down libs and gals like it does at the ranges it does), but NC and VS need something equally powerful against the air (perhaps the Enforcer shotgun could be made to 2 shot ESFs within 150m, perhaps the Saron could get buffed against aircraft, there are many practical things to implement to make this work). Right now TR is just too advantaged in the air game compared to VS and NC and the Vulcan is a major part of that.

[Rumblepit]

It's almost like . . . the factions have different strengths. Fascinating!

stfu man, your starting to make since and shet... wft are you thinking??? :rofl:

[WSNeo]

The weapons are fine. Leave them as they are.

Stop suggesting that all three empires be balanced asymmetrically.

[Phreec]

As a fourth factioning ESF pilot I can assure the factions are not ballanced and different - TR is simply better at AA and much harder to play against in the air. Mostly because of the Strikers (which are getting fixed it seems), but also the Vulcan makes things different. If I roll my standard rotary + A2Am (I love abusing OP weapons, see the Battlefield friends episode on USGS Frag Rounds to know I how feel running A2Am) I can kill lone NC and VS Harrassers, and also harrass armor - I cannot do this against TR because they have the vulcan and that's noteworthy.

I'm fine with the concept of a close range AV and AA killer (but again, the Vulcan is just OP against heavy aircraft, there is no way it should shoot down libs and gals like it does at the ranges it does), but NC and VS need something equally powerful against the air (perhaps the Enforcer shotgun could be made to 2 shot ESFs within 150m, perhaps the Saron could get buffed against aircraft, there are many practical things to implement to make this work). Right now TR is just too advantaged in the air game compared to VS and NC and the Vulcan is a major part of that.You forgot about MAX's. Both VS and TR abilities buff the effectiveness of AA, which shouldn't happen. Currently TR has way too much AA oriented that's vastly superior and they should start with tweaking the Vulcan.

[exohkay]

It's way too good as AA and it does need tweaking.

I don't like to argue for homogeneity, but the vulcan is just too good against aircraft.

I'd like to see AP do less damage against aircraft in general

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Tapatalk 2

[Rbstr]

I'm ok with it being decent against aircraft...but when combined with doing so much DPS and having a better range of movement it's out of line with the others.

Give the Sauron and Enforcer velocity and aim-limits buffs. Or hit the Vulcan with the opposite.

[maradine]

As a fourth factioning ESF pilot I can assure the factions are not ballanced and different - TR is simply better at AA and much harder to play against in the air.

Precisely. In the one aspect of the game you choose to sample, the factions are not balanced. That's my point. Different factions do different things better.

Is this by design? Bad planning? Who knows.

[WSNeo]

I'd like to see AP do less damage against aircraft in general



http://04.images.fireden.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/haha_oh_wow.jpg.jpeg

[Falcon_br]

Well, the vanguard have a main cannon with low gravity and high speed.
I get hit by vanguards main cannon all the times when flying. The AP and HE are one hit kill.
We don´t have that on prowlers, we do have anchored mode, but we need to hit twice to score a kill.
Since the tank buff update we can no longer kill a vanguard from behind or he will kill you with his main cannon, since then you must engage it from high altitudes!
A prowler with a vulcan is the same, the vulcan can´t aim high!
And I did shot down a liberator with the vulcan, it is not as easy as everyone talks about, It is much more easier to use the g30 walker or one skyguard. The g-40 is just useless.

[WSNeo]

Since the tank buff update we can no longer kill a vanguard from behind or he will kill you with his main cannon, since then you must engage it from high altitudes!


Well there you go, you just found a solution to your problem. Learn, adapt, and apply.

To be fair if you put yourself in the situation where you are able to be shot down by a tank, you deserve it (and they earned it) if they hit you.

Do you see people bitching in Battlefield 3 whenever their jets are shot out of the sky by tanks before they decided to engage at low altitude? Do helicopters deserve to not be one shot by tanks because they decided that they wanted to fly at low altitudes farming infantry and ignoring the T-90 on the hill watching them?

We don´t have that on prowlers, we do have anchored mode, but we need to hit twice to score a kill.

Well obviously, since NC follows the "more power per shot" characteristic. At least the devs didn't suddenly fuck your weapon by giving it an unneeded and unwanted change to the Sauron, rather than simply selling it off as a variant to accommodate different play styles.

[Osskscosco]

I'm ok with it being decent against aircraft...but when combined with doing so much DPS and having a better range of movement it's out of line with the others.

Give the Sauron and Enforcer velocity and aim-limits buffs. Or hit the Vulcan with the opposite.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111116692/3070905-7880080606-Sauro.jpg

[Klypto]

Well, the vanguard have a main cannon with low gravity and high speed.
I get hit by vanguards main cannon all the times when flying. The AP and HE are one hit kill.
We don´t have that on prowlers, we do have anchored mode, but we need to hit twice to score a kill.
Since the tank buff update we can no longer kill a vanguard from behind or he will kill you with his main cannon, since then you must engage it from high altitudes!
A prowler with a vulcan is the same, the vulcan can´t aim high!
And I did shot down a liberator with the vulcan, it is not as easy as everyone talks about, It is much more easier to use the g30 walker or one skyguard. The g-40 is just useless.
Gravity for all tank projectiles for all factions are the same. The only difference is that the Vanguard shells are faster (higher velocity) so they cover more ground before they drop.

TITAN-150 HE places an aircraft at heavy damage. TITAN-150 HEAT (default) is the one that kills ESFs like the AP rounds.


But yeah, I'm fine with the Vulcan the way it is because I shoot down aircraft all day long in my Vanguard, which is something the other two factions can't do easily. (It's arguably better than a skyguard when you are not directly under your target)


The concept of balance doesn't necessarily mean that everyone can do essentially the same thing the same way or even that they can do similar things different ways.

[Larington]

One thing that's really throwing me at the moment, on the VS driver magrider guns, the round/shell/bolt/whatever doesn't exit the vehicle at crosshair level and it can really fudge your aim in all sorts of uncomfortable ways. On the upside, we've discovered that ramming a harasser with magrider can do terrible damage to the harasser, even make it detonate completely. It's something I ought to look into more.

[KesTro]

Vulcan still sucks against infantry which is the big trade-off here.

So does the enforcer, can't speak about the saron as I haven't played VS in awhile. But Enforcer needs 2 direct hits to kill someone. So it's doable, just not likely.

[typhaon]

I think the balance issues show themselves when one choice (and this applies to just about everything in the game) becomes the best choice for all or almost all situations.

[WSNeo]

So does the enforcer, can't speak about the saron as I haven't played VS in awhile. But Enforcer needs 2 direct hits to kill someone. So it's doable, just not likely.

Saron blows against infantry as well. Three or so shots needed. However afaik it's STILL a better choice than the Photon PPA.

[Rbstr]

Saron blows against infantry as well. Three or so shots needed. However afaik it's STILL a better choice than the Photon PPA.

Takes two direct hits.

The PPA is a much better infantry killer.

[Roderick]

I think the Vulcan is perfect as it is. The cone of fire is bloomed and not direct fire. Every situation I find an enemy ESF is getting shot out of the air by me or my gunner is when we are being dived on for a rocket attack or a low flying Galaxy or Liberator with a bigger hit box.

Honestly, airships should receive a decent amount of damage from it for flying too low or just overall sloppy gameplay. I agree that the enemy counterparts should be brought up to similar standard.

[phungus]

I think the Vulcan is perfect as it is. The cone of fire is bloomed and not direct fire. Every situation I find an enemy ESF is getting shot out of the air by me or my gunner is when we are being dived on for a rocket attack or a low flying Galaxy or Liberator with a bigger hit box.
Vulcan vs ESF is only an issue because only the TR have a weapon that's effective in that way, but I agree it doesn't seem like a problem. Vulcan vs Heavy aircraft we are just going to disagree, ground based MBT secondaries should not be that lethal to slow moving heavy aircraft, period.

Honestly, airships should receive a decent amount of damage from it for flying too low or just overall sloppy gameplay. I agree that the enemy counterparts should be brought up to similar standard.

The NC and VS need something like the Vulcan, the problem is only the TR has this option. If the C85 modified gibbed ESFs who got to close that would be one thing, but it doesn't, only the TR can gib ESFs that dive bomb Harrassers and MBTs. I just don't think that's right. I mainly fly ESFs so I'd rather see the Vulcan just nerfed against ESFs, but that's just me being selfish. The game might be better if the C85 shotgun enforcer was an ESF killer at short range, and if the VS had something like this too.

One thing I am certain of though is that it's alot easier to fly my mossy then my sythe or reaver. It's not because of the mosquito, it's because of all the little advantages TR get in the air game, like the striker and the vulcan - it's not minor differences either, the air game is completely different playing as TR or against them. That's just not right, IMO.

[Micro]

Yea the Vulcan is at the moment probably the best AA weapon. Gibs ESFs insanely fast.

[Falcon_br]

After this topic was created I decided to start using the vulcan as anti air.
The bullet speed is not fast enough to anyone use it as an anti air weapon, it must target close range air units, or stationary ones.
Two days ago on phatphingers harasser, we were doing a run, chasing enemy tanks from behind and killing then from a real close range, something the 2 other faction doesn´t need to do with their weapon, the vulcan is better at close range, but not even close as good as the other 2 factions weapons at long range.
I did shot down 3 ESP, but guess what, I shot down 3 scythes, the 3 of them just started hovering above us and started shooting, they were idiot and deserved to die.
Normally I ride on harassers with halberds and I hit esf all the time with then, too bad it is not enough to shot then down, but like with the vulcan, I just hit dumb esf.
I never shot down a reaver with the vulcan because they can´t hover.

[Sunrock]

Well only reason anyone in an ESF get shot down by a Vulcan is because he is stupid... Stop hover in the same level as the Prowler close to it and attack it from more steeper angle and the gunner will never be able to get you in the sight. Stupid players deserves to get humiliated and crushed by there enemies so I have no problem with the Vulcan.

Now both the NC and VS MBT have a allot easier time to shoot down ESF with there main tank gun.... So in the end it balance it out that way..