Higby talks Continental Lattice eSports and More

[basti]

http://www.zam.com/story.html?story=32672

[basti]

http://i.imgur.com/mdo4cuL.jpg


This is pretty much what he seems to be talking about (thanks to calder87 on reddit for that image that i just stole, try to sue me! :p )


I did not expect that. Figment, myself and many others who were suggesting a continental lattice always went with a Warpgate to Warpgate approach, never accounting the possibility that one warpgate may connect to several other warpgates.

While we dont have any details on how capturing a warpgate works, and what exactly that entails (if i capture the TR warpgate on Hossin, do i automaticly own ALL connected warpgates?), there is one thing that is safe to say:


This doesnt work.

One home continent is not enough. Some servers like Connery or Miller are rather full. What happens if two enemy factions decide to push against the common enemy, and mange to push them all the way back to their home continent? Suddenly 2/3 of that factions pop has no where to go, as a continent can only handle so many players.
Sanctuarys dont help here, as people would just be stuck there, instead of in the VR or in a que.

I assume that we dont know a very important detail that makes this setup work, or that this is still WIP.

[Hamma]

Posted as news:

http://www.planetside-universe.com/news-matt-higby-talks-continental-lattice-3044.htm

Thanks Basti! :D

[basti]

Been a long time since i had the yellow NEWS: on one of my topics. Aww, good ol days.

[Hamma]

He also talks pretty extensively about eSports.. great article overall. Need to digest it..

Pretty slow today, Independence Day in the US :)

[Carbon Copied]

I've just never seen how home continents would realistically play out; on paper it's sound but the fact that the continent can be capped out population wise (territory aside) just doesn't bode well in my books (if this model interpretation is the end vision).

You'd almost be better off forgetting about Hossin, lock the adjoined battle islands and just increase the populations on the other home continents until people can't spawn (or even log in) there, then just "back cap" the rest as needed. Okay not that simple and to the point in actuality but with populations potentially favoring the 4th faction and general imbalances anyway I think this scenario could have a strong possibility of happening.

Would a link of battle island to Hossin (4th warp gate?) alleviate it? Who knows.

[SternLX]

Well... if that drawing is how it will be at first I'm not too sure. There are still 3 more Battle Islands to build in addition to Nexus for a total of 4 and not to forget Searhus is in the pipeline. So 5 Conts Plus 4 BI's.
Either I completely misheard Higby in an interview during MLG or he did say something about Nexus will initially(meaning just for starters) go in between Hossin and Esamir with their own warp gates on those continents to be captured. Meaning Esamir and Hossin would get an additional capturable Warpgate to get to Nexus. Wish I could remember who's stream it was I saw the interview. And I only watched it once.

[ShadoViper]

Well, I'm not sure what to make of all this. But it's at the very least a step in a good direction for the game continental warfare wise.

I'm still unsure how I feel about the battle islands, but I suppose they might be able to do something along the lines of urban warfare maps with greater detail and complex buildings. Which would be really cool and a nice change of pace.

I stay optimistic mostly because Higby seems to have the right idea towards the islands, and keeping them non-instanced.

[basti]

I've just never seen how home continents would realistically play out; on paper it's sound but the fact that the continent can be capped out population wise (territory aside) just doesn't bode well in my books (if this model interpretation is the end vision).

You'd almost be better off forgetting about Hossin, lock the adjoined battle islands and just increase the populations on the other home continents until people can't spawn (or even log in) there, then just "back cap" the rest as needed. Okay not that simple and to the point in actuality but with populations potentially favoring the 4th faction and general imbalances anyway I think this scenario could have a strong possibility of happening.

Would a link of battle island to Hossin (4th warp gate?) alleviate it? Who knows.


Dont think thats possible.

First of all, you would need to have a link, means capping all the way from your home warpgate on your home continent through a BI or Hossin to the enemy home continent, and then actually get over there and secure a position.

The problem really is the population cap tho. Lets assume TR got kicked out of Hossin, and VS + NC are pushing to the TR home continent via the BIs + whatever faction has a link to the TR home continent via Hossin is using that.

Means TR can only be on their home continent and the BIs. If crap happens, and they loose the BIs, they can only be on their home continent.

Thats why i think the setup as it is right now doesnt work.

[raw]

http://i.imgur.com/mdo4cuL.jpg


This is pretty much what he seems to be talking about

This is exactly what I suggested!

[capiqu]

Clearly we will need more continents and battle islands to make this work. Can't we put Nexus in now with 2 timed/rotating warpgates until a full intercontinental lattice system is in place that includes more conts and Islands?

[basti]

Creating a Battle Island takes about a month, at least thats how i understood what was said at MLG Anaheim. Hossin takes so long because it apperently got redesigned at least once (lattice), and has a CRAPTON of new art, like trees, buildings, even a new base type (interlink facility).

I do belive that stuff will increase in speed in the future. Once they have the biomes fleshed out and enough assets for each of them, as well as a good mix of different building assets, then theres far less mandatory artwork nessesary for a new continent.

Assuming of course they stick with the known biomes of Jungle (hossin), forest (Amerish), Desert (indar), Snow (Esamir) and Lava (Searhus).

If they go and add a new one like whatever, crystal or something (imagine, those crystals you see on Amerish here and there being the dominant thing on a continent), then of course it takes longer. But there are only so many biomes. ;)

[capiqu]

Creating a Battle Island takes about a month. Hossin takes so long because it apperently got redesigned at least once (lattice), and has a CRAPTON of new art, like trees, buildings, even a new base type (interlink facility).

I do belive that stuff will increase in speed in the future. Once they have the biomes fleshed out and enough assets for each of them, as well as a good mix of different building assets, then theres far less mandatory artwork nessesary for a new continent.

Assuming of course they stick with the known biomes of Jungle (hossin), forest (Amerish), Desert (indar), Snow (Esamir) and Lava (Searhus).

If they go and add a new one like whatever, crystal or something (imagine, those crystals you see on Amerish here and there being the dominant thing on a continent), then of course it takes longer. But there are only so many biomes. ;)

I understand what your saying. But still, I want NEXUS now. :D

[basti]

Not just you. :D

[Rivenshield]

Thats why i think the setup as it is right now doesnt work.

I agree. We need freaking sanctuaries with at least one fixed and one rotating freaking warpgate. Why is this tough? Hell, they could lift the VR area wholesale and make a little island out of it, add the two WG's, sprinkle with faction-specific posters and graffitti, and CALL it the sanctuary. Why not?

[bpostal]

Intercontinental warfare!

[EvilNinjadude]

Weird. I always assumed that this was what it would be used for, and didn't at first understand why people assumed it would be "MLG e-spats ownly" so to speak.

[capiqu]

The question is do we want easy access to the battle Island via fixed warpgates. This may encourage large outfits to do nothing but focus solely on manipulating the maps to take and hold Nexus. Now if nexus will hold about 250ish people that means that most players will not have access to it. It may take weeks for some to get a chance to play on Nexus.
Make those gates rotate so that a faction cannot hold on to nexus for extended periods of time.

[Timealude]

I agree. We need freaking sanctuaries with at least one fixed and one rotating freaking warpgate. Why is this tough? Hell, they could lift the VR area wholesale and make a little island out of it, add the two WG's, sprinkle with faction-specific posters and graffitti, and CALL it the sanctuary. Why not?

before we get sanctuaries, I would rather have inter continental travel so we can take a large force from them rather then queuing up at a terminal

[GeoGnome]

One major problem I immediately see with all of this, is that Indar has more bases than Esamir and Amerish.

Further, Indar's north gate is grossly overpowered.

This grants TR an unnaturally great advantage over the other factions in terms of starting position... but also, provides a freaking massive hole that the TR would need to climb out of, if their home continent was taken.

If Esamir is taken, the vs have like 40 bases to take. If Indar is taken the TR have about... what, 80?

I don't know though, I feel the continental lattice will feel anemic until we get more continents to put a buffer between the continents.

Rather happy about the news on the Battle Islands though, just the same

Reposted the story on PS2 forums.

[Aaron]

For me personally, this news is fantastic. A more competitive mode for Planetside 2 is what I'm craving. It just seems that in the day to day Planetside 2 gameplay, nothing competitive ever happens. If you have less pop, you lose. If you more pop, you win. Yes, that's how it has always been since PS1, but I'm starving now for something a little more mind stimulating. The open world and the massiveness of Planetside is what makes it unique, and it should stay that way, but, to be honest, it doesn't lend power to strategy. At least, I've never witnessed strategy playing any potent role, friendly or enemy. If any strategies have been used to change the outcome of a battle, they must be incredibly rare and situational (50%/50% pop), because population is the ultimate win factor.

What would it be like to have two even forces on a completely even playing field? What would it be like to take a facility and have it actually matter? How much more exciting would it be to win and know you won because you did better than the other guys, instead of making an epic resecure only to realize it was possible because the friendly zerg stopped by. Under these conditions, what type of experience would Planetside 2 offer? I'm optimistic.

[Stanis]

I am finding this amusing.

I realise the problem is scope - one home continent rather than three means its possible that with actual domination possible an empire simply can't spawn anywhere.

If that happens randomly link their warpgate to three broadcast locations for the duration of an alert.
"Breakout: Secure more than 10 hexes on 3 different continents in 2 hrs".

[AThreatToYou]

Dot the map with battle islands! More more!

Use them to finish the lattice by adding more home conts. So a faction might have a home cont and a home island.

[Fara]

I wonder if they will/are designing maps with 4 warpgates instead of 3 for better inter-connectivity between the conts (aka PS1).

Patience and wait n see I guess.

[Carbon Copied]

@Basti - valid point in reply to my post however like mentioned both sides come down to the overbearing pop cap issue.
I'd like to see them increase the number of BI's to create more stepping stones between continents and potentially alternative routes within the global lattice network and considering these can (as far as we know) be created within a month give or take; probably a more valid option than relying on the long term large continent releases (not negating them though). Warp gate network links can be re-structured as more main continents are released; e.g after release of Hossin the ratio of BI to main continents becomes 6-4 and the link structure adjust as the additional continents make their way into the game.

[SternLX]

I wonder if they will/are designing maps with 4 warpgates instead of 3 for better inter-connectivity between the conts (aka PS1).

Patience and wait n see I guess.
I was thinking of something along those lines earlier. A 4th mini-WG that has to be captured like any other base that gives your faction access to a BI. Only draw back to that I see is what if your faction manages to hold BOTH of the WG's? Would the capture eventually time out and lock your faction out for a given time giving another faction a chance to secure it?

Lots of possibilities.

P.S. Damn it's late, hate when I can't sleep and start thinking up stuff for PS2. So many ideas!!!

[ringring]

I wouldn't put too much weight on that diagram, that's only one option. Plus ofc it's missing one BI, there should be 4 going by references in the PTS client as reported on Reddit.

We also don't know the phasing of everything. Perhaps there will be intermediate stages as difference assets and mechanics are created. For example maybe the BI will be created over the course of a year from now plus it implies that working warpgates are included and that inter-continent lattice.

To address the issue basti raised, there has to be 'home warpgates on more than 1 continent.

[camycamera]

http://i.imgur.com/mdo4cuL.jpg




this is amazing news! we dont have much details, but these battle islands are much more important than we first had thought; these are the
first steps for continental domination.

[Dougnifico]

Basti has a damned good point about pop caps. Each empire needs at least 2 home conts. this means that Searhus and Oshur need to come fairly quickly after Hossin. Then they need to bring Cyssor and Forseral back.

As for limited biomes, its an alien planet. I point to star wars as refutation of that assumption. lol

[Mordelicius]

They have to make a REAL home continent in the future (that is extremely difficult to assault).

Right now, all they have to do is have a single home base that cannot be conquered.

Every other continent is free-for-all. If they want, they can make Indar the central continent instead of Hossin.

This is how I would configure the upcoming 4-continent lattice.

Note, if one faction concentrates on another faction, they will be flanked by the other.

One thing I can say is Indar can't be a faction home permanently. It's the best map by far.

Obviously, there shouldn't be a timed continent "lock" where the other factions can't enter, but continental bonus will suffice. The only downside here is the population imbalance. An overpopulated faction can probably take both sides easily.

Perhaps they can add a 3-Warpgate battle island in the future so they can be linked by a the current 2-way Battle Island.
http://i.imgur.com/IqkLdUc.png?1

Alternately, they can have the bases on each continent but they have to be rotated. It's a must. Indar can't be given to a single faction. It is stupid.

http://i.imgur.com/OgucVkp.png

[AThreatToYou]

Indar is the best continent more or less because it's undergone lattice. Prior to lattice, I would have said that Esamir is the best cont.

[Hamma]

Honestly this is an extremely good article it has tons of information to chew on for some time.

First off, continental metagame. It's something everyone has craved since the beginning, the devs have said numerous times once we have more continents we will start to see if flesh out. This is the first concept of that idea using the new "Battle Islands" as gateways to other continents. They serve a double purpose as well, with MLG competition taking place on them. This allows them to serve multiple roles and allows everyone to be able to see the battle islands without the need to be in competition. I think the home continent idea could be a solid one, provided constant rotation of home continents (similar to thw WG rotations we see) it does not account for population however as basti said but it's still very conceptual.

Next up: eSports.

Matt talked in more detail about how eSports will work, also explaining that the battle islands will have different play mechanics based on whether or not it's normal open world play or competition. They are talking about having an accelerated metagame which will allow people to purchase and upgrade weapons during the course of a match, starting out as a basic character. That will be another level of strategy depending on what outfits decide to spend their points and resources on. People want to know how PlanetSide 2 will work in eSports? That's how, a contained area with specific rules and systems specifically for eSports.

I consider it to be our biggest challenge; contextualizing the action in PlanetSide 2 to make a compelling viewing experience is an enormous challenge. It needs two things to come together really well, that is the observer camera system; allowing you to see not only an overview of where the world is, but also first-person views of what the player is seeing. Being able to, at a glance, see a scoreboard and the mini-map, to understand where the players are moving and what they’re accomplishing, all those pieces are really important and that’s entirely on our end to develop.

To me it’s the most important thing for us from a game development side. The maps are really important and we have a really good handle on it. The observer system is something we continue to work on and make better. At the end of the day, the players are on the map, but the viewers are watching the observer system, and both of those things have to be really good.

The other piece is the commentary. We need to have commentators who not only know the game in depth but also contextualize all of the things that are happening to the viewer. Making sure they can explain “Hey, this is the strategy that these guys are going for,” so the drama can be conveyed to the viewers.

These few paragraphs are huge in terms of making PlanetSide 2 eSports entertaining. This proves that they know how important it is to have good tools to show the battle and good solid commentators who know the game and can talk about specific strategies for success. With everything above, I think a battle island competition has the potential to be a hugely entertaining event.

Another big piece of eSports in PlanetSide 2 is it's going to be something that is more open to your regular Joe player. Just think you will rank up while playing the game normally with your outfit. During a competition there will be 48 people involved, including many back at home playing. This will put eSports within reach of more players than most games.

The issue is, will the game have enough interest to support a ton of 48vs48 eSport teams? Time will tell. Making the game funner to watch will be another step towards building interest.

All in all, a very exciting and thought provoking article to be honest. Lots of information was revealed about how the game will work in the future and Matt was very honest about what is needed.

[SadlyJack]

mite b cool

[Sarloh]

While doing that they could also work on making 'portals', for example, I could fly a fully loaded galaxy into a different continent along with it's passengers, or a teleportation pad.

And what about a big warpgate, an extra big one that wouldn't have any battlefields connected to it, like a big rally point for platoons, squads and outfits to gather together and that warpgate could then have the teleport ability. Also it could have some empire specific structures in the background, or it could be located in the empires home world, for example the TR could have a big city in the back and the base would look like a big military base, with tanks, boxes... The NC could have like a commercial area or something, the VS could have like a big temple, well I'm not so sure about what the NC and the VS could have.

Otherwise for tactics making players travel in two warpgates, possibly getting stuck one one because the other one has too much people in it, and basicly different loading speeds... So I don't think that idea is so good.

[Phantomdestiny]

While doing that they could also work on making 'portals', for example, I could fly a fully loaded galaxy into a different continent along with it's passengers, or a teleportation pad.

And what about a big warpgate, an extra big one that wouldn't have any battlefields connected to it, like a big rally point for platoons, squads and outfits to gather together and that warpgate could then have the teleport ability. Also it could have some empire specific structures in the background, or it could be located in the empires home world, for example the TR could have a big city in the back and the base would look like a big military base, with tanks, boxes... The NC could have like a commercial area or something, the VS could have like a big temple, well I'm not so sure about what the NC and the VS could have.

Otherwise for tactics making players travel in two warpgates, possibly getting stuck one one because the other one has too much people in it, and basicly different loading speeds... So I don't think that idea is so good.

Is it just me or you are just describing how it worked in planetside 1 ?

[Cooper]

Basti's right about the problems with populations on home continents if factions have nowhere to go. But the BI bottlenecks make me shudder.

I can see it now. Outfits filling their factions 48 people pop on a BI and sending /orders along the line of "Do not capture anything on [enemy faction's home continent] so we can mantain the BI farm"

[ringring]

Basti's right about the problems with populations on home continents if factions have nowhere to go. But the BI bottlenecks make me shudder.

I can see it now. Outfits filling their factions 48 people pop on a BI and sending /orders along the line of "Do not capture anything on [enemy faction's home continent] so we can mantain the BI farm"
you're missing some information.

In normal play the BI's will have a pop cap of around 250. That's quite enough for a good 2-wsay fight. There will also be 4 (probably) islands.

When in tournament mode (instanced) the pop cap will be 48x48.

[basti]

Basti's right about the problems with populations on home continents if factions have nowhere to go. But the BI bottlenecks make me shudder.

I can see it now. Outfits filling their factions 48 people pop on a BI and sending /orders along the line of "Do not capture anything on [enemy faction's home continent] so we can mantain the BI farm"

Yea, because that would totally work...

[capiqu]

I see 2 possibilities.

A) Battle Islands with Fix Links:

The BI's will connect to all none home continents via smaller warpgates on their central maps.

B) Battle Islands linked via rotating geowarpgate to all continents like the
Planetside Core Combat link system.

In my opinion B would be better to keep the larger outfits and factions from
claiming any BI as a home continent and holding on to them for extended
periods of time.
In example b, the 2 warpgates on Nexus will connect to 10 geowarps on
the continents. Making the geowarpgates rotate about every 5 hours.
would keep the maps dynamic.

Another thing about example A is that you will need little home continents defense
since most battles will be at Hossin, searhurs and Nexus. With B you would have to defend
your home continent more frequently since the number of entry points increase from 2 to 4.

Sorry about the bad art and worse PC skills.

[Qwan]

Basti's right about the problems with populations on home continents if factions have nowhere to go. But the BI bottlenecks make me shudder.

I can see it now. Outfits filling their factions 48 people pop on a BI and sending /orders along the line of "Do not capture anything on [enemy faction's home continent] so we can mantain the BI farm"

Im not seeing it like that, yea there will be bottle knecks on the BI, but hossin is another way onto the enemy continent. Granted I believe Hossin will be lockable, but as long as the enemy has a warp gate thats untouchable then Esimir, Indar, and Amerish cant be locked completly. But I do see the bottle kneck issue with the BI's but honestly I say give it a try, see how it runs, I know that when they finally start adding new continents all this will change, to somthing bigger.