Does anyone else think that bases need to be redesigned? [Archive]

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EVILoHOMER

2013-07-09, 07:24 PM

I find it funny how we asked for it in Planetside and it never happened, I think the most SOE ever did was add a force field to one base per island or something like that. Now really IMO Planetside 2 needs it as well because bases are actually worse than in Planetside. What myths me though is how they're so giant, but really that is just eye candy because there is hardly any floor plan to them. What SOE could have done is made them into little cities, instead they're basically walls with huts.

They're impossible to defend, I think it's a combo of bad design, with hot dropping and that teleporter that is always ages away from the base that leads right into it. Really all that ever happens is you get spawn camped so you go somewhere else where the fighting is fun. It's not fun for the attacking side either, you come up to the base, the enemy gives up, goes somewhere else and you're stuck there watching the spawns while people fire fireworks and you wait for the countdown timer.

The problem is vehicles can just dominate them and then you just have a cluster fuck inside the tiny floor plan so you have no freedom to move without dying. At least in Planetside the base design had space to them and you could set up defences. Even better though you could just kill the tubes so you don't have to stick around for so long.

I was really hoping for bases to be dense and infantry focused like a normal FPS map, they'd be little cities where vehicles couldn't get around so easily with lots of buildings and places to go. Instead we got what might as well be in a skybox....

I would really love for SOE to redesign the bases one by one. I really think the amp station just needs a roof on it, it's got quite a lot of space inside to be a big complex, sadly it's just dominated by the air. I think that's the simplest to fix as it's the best functioning if it just had a roof. Other bases like the biolab are just a mess and need a total redesign.

DirtyBird

2013-07-09, 07:26 PM

What is your characters name in game?

ChipMHazard

2013-07-09, 07:27 PM

They are going to redesign the bases.

SerethiX

2013-07-09, 07:30 PM

I agree with you in some point, why the Bio lab needs a redesign? I think they made gameplay in biolabs a great fun.

Amp stations and techplants surely need to be redesigned. What they did at The Stronghold is a step into the right direction, but it's still not perfect, the tunnel seems pretty white washed and offers only a little cover...

SerethiX - www.serethi.de

Crator

2013-07-09, 07:38 PM

Well, they are going to put those dome shields in. Should help out a lot at those open bases. They added tunnels since the game came out and that was good but I don't think enough people use them. As for the comment about killing the tubes, they actually added that to Biolabs not long ago. So you not only kill the tubes but the spawn room doors go down eventually and you can rush in and kill all that are left. The only problem left is that they still make you wait around until a capture timer finishes to get XP. You can't just leave the hex and get XP if you were there. I wish they'd make the capture XP variable, based on how much fighting you participated in and could move outside of the hex after the fight is over and still get XP when the capture goes through.

DarkBalths

2013-07-09, 07:48 PM

I'm hoping that the base that it looks like they're adding to Esamir, The Octagon, will be the kind of facility like the Stronghold where you have to go inside. Imagine the stronghold but with an actual roof (NOT a dome shield, those are dumb.)
That would be great.

Timithos

2013-07-09, 10:14 PM

Yes. Bases need to be changed. And a pro-defender mentality needs to be re-adopted. What good is a facility if ownership of it does not allow you to defend while out-numbered? SOE has been stripping away defender advantages, and the turning point was about March. They want Steamrollside, and facilities to change hands fluidly. I big reason for this is esports. Well now that they've developed an arena for their esports, maybe they can focus on base design that isn't wrecked by esports.

We've seen enhancements for defenders. We didn't have much of any walls in the beginning. As time marches on we keep getting more walls, and more overhead cover, and blast plates to protect against shells, but it is still designed wrong. And those dome shields coming as they are currently designed are actually more pro-attacker. We'll have attackers bringing in superior air domination, and then once that is done, they'll be throwing picnics on top of the shield waiting to drop off the edge at their leisure.

In base design we needs spawn rooms that are not big fish bowls sitting out in the open ready to be camped. We need underground spawning facilities, buildings within buildings, tunnels, closer proximity to capture points with relatively protected access avenues, trenches; walls that encompass the spawn/capture/vehicle terminal/generators, not obstruct them. Spawn rooms need multiple exits that are WAY spread out. A tunnel this way, a trench that way, etc. If attackers want to "camp" a facility spawn, they have to cover 3, 4, 5, 6+ egresses spread out over 100-150 meters per area at EVERY facility. We need walls that have crates and catwalks on the DEFENDER'S side only.

We need some pro-defender mechanics back into the game. Anyone can overload a generator, but only a defending engineer can fix it! HOW MUCH SENSE DOES THAT MAKE? It makes no sense, because SOE stopped being pro-facility/pro-defender. How about this? ONLY an infiltrator or engineer (not both) can over-load a generator? OH MY SO RADICAL!

We need mechanics like, defending max's can resecure a capture point, but attacking max's can't. Or defending engineers can deploy a turret and cap the point at the same time, but attacking engineers can't.

There are no cover mechanics. Crouch behind a crate, or on top of a building with just your head exposed? You just give the enemy a more focused spot to give you a critical head shot - no damage reduction provided for cover at all.

And ghost hacking! Good gosh they haven't put anything in place to stop that. Even on Indar, if you stumble into a facility on the lattice alone, you can flip the point and LEAVE!

How about this? Defenders can flip their points and leave to DEFEND. Attackers CAN'T! They must keep someone on the point in order for it to maintain the hack. WALLA! Solves ghost hacking too!

I could go on, and on, and on...

Timithos

2013-07-09, 10:25 PM

I'd also like to see some of the old capture point mechanics come back, like requiring multiple attackers to stay on point to capture the facility faster. But this time while the defenders can see who is on point, the attackers can't! It's not their facility! Why would they get access to that information? DUH!

Timithos

2013-07-09, 10:30 PM

What about the sunderer no-deploy zones? That should be for the attackers only right? But it probably isn't again, right?

bpostal

2013-07-10, 03:11 AM

I think we all think they need an overhaul. Personally FigmentOfYerImagination should just be hired on as a contractor, I like a lot of his stuff.
There's been a good amount of people who have been talking about the problem with base layout/design since beta, and probably earlier. It's something SOE knows about and they've been chipping away at the problem slowly but surely.
I'm of a mind that it's an issue of scalability. The base needs to be as fun and defensible with a squad as it is with multiple platoons. Therein lies the rub.

Rivenshield

2013-07-10, 03:26 AM

>Does anyone else think that bases need to be redesigned?
Yes. And we've been saying so since early beta. To very little avail. And we don't need kludges like the gayass dome shield. We need medium-sized bases that are DESIGNED TO KEEP PEOPLE OUT.

/grinds teeth

Maidere

2013-07-10, 04:10 AM

From scratch - most of them. Not gonna happen tho.

ringring

2013-07-10, 05:15 AM

From scratch - most of them. Not gonna happen tho.
The acid test will be with the new Dropship and Interlink bases.

If those are the same chaotic indefensible random boxes then either:
a) the devs want bases to be chaotic and indefensible
b) there's some kind of tech restriction that rules out layered bases with 'basements'.

Nathaniak

2013-07-10, 05:49 AM

I've been saying this (as have many others) for a long time. IMO, the devs want most bases to confer equal advantage to both sides. This would be fine, were it not for the fact that the defender is inherently disadvantaged - they're trying to defend a single location, whilst the attackers can attack from anywhere.

I would like to see bases where 30 defenders can reliably hold off 40 attackers of equal skill/organisation. There are little things that can be done. Remember the old Tech Plants, where the shield gen was inside the base? What about placing a shield there that powers a shield protecting the current generators? That way, the attackers have to fight their way in through the back door and it takes several minutes until the vehicle bay shields drop. This allows defenders to have a proper defence, and attackers can still use Gal-drops and gate diffuser Sunderers to get in if they organise.

PredatorFour

2013-07-10, 05:57 AM

I think we all think they need an overhaul. Personally FigmentOfYerImagination should just be hired on as a contractor, I like a lot of his stuff.

Seriously, if they would have done that ages ago.. this game would've been where it deserves to be in the halls of greatness! Instead of a battlefield/generic shooter game.

Takoita

2013-07-10, 08:01 AM

YES! A hundered times yes!

But it looks like all we are gonna get is some slapdash 'temporary' fix like spawn shack redesign or those dome shields...

Crator

2013-07-10, 08:16 AM

The problem with making bases more defensible is that they cause stalemates. It happens right now at Biolabs. There needs to be varying degrees of defensibility per type of base in the correct locations on the map. Think PS1 Biolab (gen on top of roof) vs. Interlink (gen/cc/spawns hard to reach).

Chaff

2013-07-10, 01:09 PM

.
REDESIGN ? Hell yes. More than that is needed.

I still think PS2 Devs have thus far missed a Great Game improvement mechanism:

MODULAR BASES.

Make it so the Devs can cut & paste from dozens of different building/base configurations. Break bases into comparmentalized sections that the devs can swap-out & switch from time-to-time.

This way, they can alter the layout & flow of bases from just perhaps some different stairwell placements - to the entire internal flow of the base being close to 100% tweaked. They can slowly build dozens & dozens of different section that they can cut & paste and paste in and out of any base to change the look, flow, and location of terms, SCUs, door, stairs, .......

Hell, rotate the damn base 90 degrees quarterly. That alone should alter fights to varying degrees.

Repetitive environments - lead to repetitive game mechanics - leads to BOREDOM.
.

PredatorFour

2013-07-10, 01:24 PM

.

Repetitive environments - lead to repetitive game mechanics - leads to BOREDOM.
.

By that statement planetside 1 should of had us bored after 6 months but it ain't true. I agree they need redesigning but i would also vouch for a TTK reduction so our survivability is increased.

Chaff

2013-07-10, 01:45 PM

.
Oh HELL YES to adjusting the TTK.

PS1 did become boring (repetitive). By the end of my 2nd year playing it was the SAME style battle(s) over & over & over & over at the same bases, with the same choke points, the same back-hacks, ..... it was a GREAT GAME, but this MODULAR BASE DESIGN would have greatly benefitted PS1.

(at least we had Cont Lock in PS1 - that "felt" like a bit of a Win or VICTORY .... like you accomplished SOMETHING for your time sticking with a fight......

They can come up with ways to keep PS2 fresh or at least try to reduce/minimize redundant game mechanics.
.

ringring

2013-07-10, 01:48 PM

By that statement planetside 1 should of had us bored after 6 months but it ain't true. I agree they need redesigning but i would also vouch for a TTK reduction so our survivability is increased.

Quite right.

I'd argue that base designs that are simple and allow the players to learn them easily, allow the choke points to be lknown and allow the counters to the choke points also to be known will increase tactics and 'smarter' play.

Presently there is too much of run-run-run-run-die|kill-run-run-run. They've certainly increased the speed of the gameplay by adding in a lot more running. The fighting part is slower though.

OctavianAXFive

2013-07-10, 05:35 PM

Threads about base design are like fly lights to me.

Must

Resist

Long post

Base design

In need

Must hit submit before...

rant.

Shogun

2013-07-11, 10:11 AM

blashyrk

2013-07-11, 10:29 AM

ps2 is a totally broken game and gameplay sucks big time.

the basedesign is the major problem that causes this (apart from the missing planetary game)

as long as the devs don´t rebuild that crappy bases from scratch, i don´t feel any urge to play it any more. and i was so keen on getting a new planetside that i bought a gaming rig just for ps2! but the game is a single letdown with no sign of a light at the end of the tunnel.

new base layout from scratch is the necessary start to fix this game. no workaround whatsoever will help! next necessary step is drastic increase of ttk and a proper balance pass.
but since none of these steps will be taken, the game is dead.
The game isn't dead. Players are playing, some stick with the game, some move on, it's perfectly normal. SOE is making money, the game is being constantly updated (for better or for worse) but the game is far from dead, and just maybe SOE will at one point start catering to the needs of players who want more than running and gunning while farming certs.

They will implement continent locking, and I believe that in a year from now PS2 will begin reaching its full potential. Yes, the F2P model has its many drawbacks and it's one of the reasons for the game taking so long to mature, but I can't say it's a bad move (I myself haven't payed a dime for the game and I play it and enjoy it an awful lot). But, because it's F2P, they need to constantly dish out new meaningless cosmetics and similar stuff, actual content/gameplay development takes a lot more time and effort yet SOE needs to earn money.
And if I didn't live in such a shitty country, I'd at least get a subscription but right now the price of a 1 month membership is 1/15 of the average monthly salary in my country. So the best I can do to "help" is participate in forum discussions while trying to be as objective in my opinions as I can, hoping that the devs are monitoring them (and I'm sure they are to some extent).

typhaon

2013-07-11, 11:22 AM

Yes. But... SOE keeps slapping ducktape and glue over already broken bases.

^Shield domes are the latest version.

Chaff

2013-07-11, 11:32 AM

The game isn't dead. Players are playing, some stick with the game, some move on, it's perfectly normal. SOE is making money, the game is being constantly updated (for better or for worse) but the game is far from dead, and just maybe SOE will at one point start catering to the needs of players who want more than running and gunning while farming certs.

They will implement continent locking, and I believe that in a year from now PS2 will begin reaching its full potential. Yes, the F2P model has its many drawbacks and it's one of the reasons for the game taking so long to mature, but I can't say it's a bad move (I myself haven't payed a dime for the game and I play it and enjoy it an awful lot). But, because it's F2P, they need to constantly dish out new meaningless cosmetics and similar stuff, actual content/gameplay development takes a lot more time and effort yet SOE needs to earn money.
And if I didn't live in such a shitty country, I'd at least get a subscription but right now the price of a 1 month membership is 1/15 of the average monthly salary in my country. So the best I can do to "help" is participate in forum discussions while trying to be as objective in my opinions as I can, hoping that the devs are monitoring them (and I'm sure they are to some extent).

:huh:

What country is that ?? BTW, your English is better than most people in my country (USA).

:groovy:

blashyrk

2013-07-11, 11:43 AM

:huh:

What country is that ?? BTW, your English is better than most people in my country (USA).

:groovy:

Thanks for the compliment :).
I'm from Serbia. And I did exaggerate a little it's more like 1/20 but you get the idea :doh:

SternLX

2013-07-11, 06:49 PM

Thanks for the compliment :).
I'm from Serbia. And I did exaggerate a little it's more like 1/20 but you get the idea :doh:
Serbia!? man I'm glad you play VS, that whole Bosnia/Serbia thing was messy. :p /offtopic

I've pitched a few ideas for base redesigns in the past. Gave up. Devs will do what the Devs will do. It's their baby after all. Don't get me wrong. I'm still having fun since day one. :D

EVILoHOMER

2013-07-15, 03:55 AM

I've just had enough, haven't bothered to play since posting this, my friend gave up too, his main problem was you cannot defend bases because they're not fun to, you just get spawn camped. In fact he just kept complaining about spawn camping and got pissed off and quit.

I think the base designs are the worst, I don't get how they can be so massive and get have no substance to them what so ever. The new island SOE is doing doesn't fill me with hope either, it just makes me think they will go to doing battlegrounds and the "world" pvp will be dead.

I personally want to see base sieges that have stages like Mount and Blade or those assault UT4 maps. So say you have a linear map that is a straight line of main bases and then you have little out posts and things off to the side. Each base has giant walls you have to breach and then once you're in there it's like a Russian doll, you have to keep going through the layers until you capture a main point.

Planetside was a bit like this in it's base design where Planetside 2 is far too open, the attackers feel as much at home in your base as you do.

SpectreNova

2013-07-15, 04:58 AM

I have been lobbying for a complete base overhaul since beta, as have many others. As of right now, every base in the game suffers from poor base design. Spawn rooms are above ground, separated from primary facility & capping point.

Once vehicles & air surround spawn room the base is compromised. In Planetside 1, vehicular combat was only the first stage of capturing a base. Once the exterior of a base had been secured, you had to fight your way within the interior to cap the base. Allowing infantry combat to flourish.

Yes. But... SOE keeps slapping ducktape and glue over already broken bases.

^Shield domes are the latest version.

Couldn't agree more. Its SOE's lazy fix instead of creating underground networks/facilities. The dome shields are a horrible idea. The sooner they just commit to fixing base design the better off PS2 will be.

KesTro

2013-07-15, 05:09 AM

It's on their to do list but they have stuff they have to take care of before they can even think about touching base designs. They're chipping away at problems as fast as they can. That aside I look at this and probably the next 6 months or so of planetside as the pre-endgame grind.

Gotta get dem certs.

BlazingSun

2013-07-15, 07:37 AM

They are going to redesign the bases.

They will just try to make some cheap changes to the existing bases and towers, which is like putting lipstick on a pig, as the fundamental flaws don't get adressed. The bases are the worst thing in this game - they should have been put in the trash and redesigned from zero by someone who has a clue.

Baneblade

2013-07-15, 09:27 AM

I hope they give us futuristic castles tbh.

And no, I am not kidding.

Blynd

2013-07-15, 09:36 AM

I have a reasonably simple idea for amp stations. Put a roof over the current ground level add a whole new level with buildings already above 1 story have access down into the lower base and obviously down to the Gen rooms and access down from towers is as current as well as vehicle access is normal but it would give some level of protection from air and vehicles but still allow access to the enemy vehicles on the groud floor and the 1st floor is open to ESF and lib fire. This would allow defenders to set up solid defences for the touts to gens and to the cap point as well as still giving access to the attackers

Hmr85

2013-07-15, 10:55 AM

Yes, bases need to be completely redesigned. I did a few write ups back in beta stating this. With that said, I think it will happen but I am betting next year at the earliest. If I was them I would trash all the current facility layouts and start over. I would probably start by taking a look at those old pre-Alpha bases they had and throw in some tunnels underneath them. I am sure everybody knows which ones I am talking about.

camycamera

2013-07-15, 07:47 PM

i have said this time and time again. this needs to happen. mainly it is the spawn rooms that need a redesign, and not just band-aids. the answer is simple; spawn rooms need to be like PS1. they need to be underground. ALL OF THEM.

i just wish we had some dev support on this, it is my no.1 problem with this game aside from performance, which we are at least getting with the PS4.

Maybe Hossin is coming with these new bases...

camycamera

2013-07-15, 07:56 PM

They are going to redesign the bases.

i would really love to know where you heard this, because i haven't heard anything from the devs regarding base redesign/ spawn room redesign.

hashish

2013-07-15, 08:10 PM

Base design in my opinion is absolutely necessary..

At the moment you have extremely good fights on the terrain itself as it has indeed been designed well..

However toward the climax of fight/base capture you have THE MOST shallow experience i have witnessed in any game LOL

You end up having like a massive camp outside the spawn room where tanks, aircrafts and infantry just stand around shooting at anyone that comes out until the base gets captured..

WTFFF SOE Thats soo boring and stupid.. I dont even feel like waiting around anymore when this occurs.. I just BOUNCE to the next place..

This feature in a way just stagnates the whole battle flow as 90% of people just keep spawning in that base 'attempting' to recapture in some way.. just stupid and annoying..

camycamera

2013-07-15, 08:48 PM

ChipMHazard

2013-07-16, 01:46 AM

i would really love to know where you heard this, because i haven't heard anything from the devs regarding base redesign/ spawn room redesign.

One of their videos where they showed the changes they are going to be making to bases. High walls, more bridges, more cover inside etc. Nothing to the extent that some people want of course.
Should also note that by base I don't mean the main building.

camycamera

2013-07-16, 03:34 AM

One of their videos where they showed the changes they are going to be making to bases. High walls, more bridges, more cover inside etc. Nothing to the extent that some people want of course.
Should also note that by base I don't mean the main building.

oh yeah, i remember that video. but aren't they only doing those bases on esamir, and aren't they completely new ones, not redesigned ones?

ChipMHazard

2013-07-16, 03:49 AM

oh yeah, i remember that video. but aren't they only doing those bases on esamir, and aren't they completely new ones, not redesigned ones?

They will probably take the experience to other bases, especially when it comes to new continents. From what I remember it was part of the revamping Esamir for the lattice system so I guess it would be the old bases as well, the ones they keep that is.

EVILoHOMER

2013-07-19, 11:08 AM

I hope they give us futuristic castles tbh.

And no, I am not kidding.

It would be nice, like having the feeling of a full on assault. We need a bottleneck, right now by the time you get to the battle, everyone is moving on and it feels like a race from base to base.

Osskscosco

2013-07-19, 12:03 PM

New esamir like bases on Indar and Amerish would be good enough.

AThreatToYou

2013-07-19, 12:11 PM

Bases primarily need a re-design to encompass underground portions of the facility that are fought over. Then spawns should be relocated underground and we may investigate total contest-ability over spawns, including the necessity to push into the [now underground] spawn room in order to take it out.

This includes outposts and towers.

and yes to futuristic castles. Bases built into the sides and insides of mountains, and behind these mountains is the real base which the mountain-face protects.