MeanWhile Free 2 Play are struggling, PAY 2 WIN Players are doing this with resources

[Dreamcast]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=X_XEg-K8sHU#at=30


No doubt in my mind this game is 100% Pay 2 Win now.


That guy has multiple infantry things maxed at 40.....no wonder he can just run around instakilling people with mines.

Their is absolutely zero risk if you have resource boost...Is Pay 2 win.


Meanwhile a free 2 play player like me has around 2-5 med kits or 2 -5 grenades.....

On a good day when the battle takes plays on biolab, I can get it up to 15 medkits 10 grenades lulz.


This is a joke.


I loved this game but lately with the resources change, I had like no resources at all for infantry..


Sorry SOE, at one time the game's hidden P2W wasn't that obvious...

Now the game has Obvious Pay 2 Win.

[Obstruction]

should i be the first to ask...?

R U MAD BRO???? irony makes me smile.

but seriously, just farm some resources if it's that bad. maybe you are a casual who gets bored easily but if you aren't, and don't want to pay for subs and boost, then just go to a place that's marked infantry and gain xp any way you can. rep things, raise people, hell, pull ammo sundies with a buddy and trade reloads. it won't take that long to earn the resources you need to stock up. maybe 1 play session if you are super casual.

you can also look at which continent you have the most inf. resource and just do things there and collect the gain every 5 minutes. you could also make sure you're in an infantry area when the alert points pop and that your inf resource is empty.

there's a lot of ways to game the resource system. hopefully the resource redesign will help but you have to be the kind of gamer that helps themselves first. if you don't pay you need to farm, there's really nothing new about that.

[EvilNinjadude]

Fun fact: Dude in this video has an XP boost, not a resource boost.

EDIT: fix'd. Sorry. Wat.
Was busy considering how much of an impact the XP boost would have compared to a resource boost, since XP gives resources depending on how much you earn and where. Eventually I just got confused. :P

[Dreamcast]

should i be the first to ask...?

R U MAD BRO???? irony makes me smile.

but seriously, just farm some resources if it's that bad. maybe you are a casual who gets bored easily but if you aren't, and don't want to pay for subs and boost, then just go to a place that's marked infantry and gain xp any way you can. rep things, raise people, hell, pull ammo sundies with a buddy and trade reloads. it won't take that long to earn the resources you need to stock up. maybe 1 play session if you are super casual.

Like I said when I play in biolab, the best I could get up to is around 15 medkits and 10 grenades....Obviously Im using them while fighting at the biolab.

Sorry but I shouldn't have to fight at biolabs 24/7 to get just a small amount of infantry resources.

Also sometimes battles take places where their is no infantry resources gained thru XP.


As for me being a casual player?...LMFAO...See my stats I played this game since August of last year...I love this game....I Spent $60 on this game but Im not sub or have boost used right now.

When I did had the Sub/boost combo, holyshit was I rich...straight up pay 2 win.


The reources were never this bad as of late....Now the game really feels like Pay 2 Win.


Sorry man, this game is Pay 2 Win.

[Dreamcast]

Fun fact: Dude in this video has an XP boost, not an experience boost.

Fun Fact......XP Boost help you gain resources super fast....trust me I know since I had used Xp Boost before.


BTW He had +80 XP bonus.....NC had a high population.

Safe to say he has subscription which gives u resources boost/Xp Boost.


Thus this is the reason he has almost all infantry equipment maxed out at 40.

He is paying 2 win.

[Phreec]

I agree. After the latest cost increase it got obvious that the whole resources thing is completely pointless and only there to limit you if you're a F2P player.

Pay and you basically get infinite grenades, hpkits, mines, etc. It's really stupid and they should just get rid of it as it serves no real purpose.
Fun fact: Dude in this video has an XP boost, not an experience boost.Wut?

[Obstruction]

yeah that is what i'm getting at. if you don't want to pay the sub, then you probably need to farm. like you said you're using the things you want to stock up. so go to infantry territories and get xp. there are other ways to earn xp than "battles at biolab." so do those until you get your grenades up or whatever.

it's not impossible but it might be boring. that's farming.

[Nathaniak]

I don't have boosts or premium, and I usually manage to have 40 of all consumables, even in massive fights when I spam grenades, C4, etc. It's all about careful placement - and farming biolabs!

[MrMak]

Pay 2 win....becouse he has a biger stockpile of mines..... I hardly ever run out of somethign and if i do its just beocue i forget to stock up.


You people realy need to learn what Pay 2 Win actualy means before you throw that phrase all over the place.

[Dreamcast]

yeah that is what i'm getting at. if you don't want to pay the sub, then you probably need to farm. like you said you're using the things you want to stock up. so go to infantry territories and get xp. there are other ways to earn xp than "battles at biolab." so do those until you get your grenades up or whatever.

it's not impossible but it might be boring. that's farming.

Then the game wouldn't be fun...lol.


I play this game to have fun....Not to Farm Resources in order to have fun.


Before I use to get resources just fine playing normally without farming...Is been these changed with the resources that has screwed over Free players.

[Ghoest9]

1 LOLz at Dreamcast tears.

2 I have a sub and an alphasquad implant.

3 Its great fun to spam AP mines.

4 Those were unusual best case senerios against bad players.
In reality you ussually get one kill with mine and sometimes 2. Its really rare to get 3 or more.

5 A sort of good shot can rack up kills faster with a gun than with AP mine spam.

[Dreamcast]

I don't have boosts or premium, and I usually manage to have 40 of all consumables, even in massive fights when I spam grenades, C4, etc. It's all about careful placement - and farming biolabs!

Bullshit...lol.


Unless u never use ur consumables

[Dreamcast]

1 LOLz at Dreamcast tears.

2 I have a sub and an alphasquad implant.

3 Its great fun to spam AP mines.

4 Those were unusual best case senerios against bad players.
In reality you ussually get one kill with mine and sometimes 2. Its really rare to get 3 or more.

Must be good to have practically endless Insta kill Mines.


Gotta love that Pay 2 Win.

[Assist]

I don't have boosts or premium, and I usually manage to have 40 of all consumables, even in massive fights when I spam grenades, C4, etc. It's all about careful placement - and farming biolabs!

Clearly you're lying, it's impossible to kill someone in this game without paying REAL MONIES!
Didn't you see how amazing his C4 was??? It was like 5x the explosive radius because he spent his REAL MONIES!

PAY2WINPAY2WINPAY2WIN



----

amidoingitright?

[Dreamcast]

Clearly you're lying, it's impossible to kill someone in this game without paying REAL MONIES!
Didn't you see how amazing his C4 was??? It was like 5x the explosive radius because he spent his REAL MONIES!

PAY2WINPAY2WINPAY2WIN



----

amidoingitright?

Don't worry I destroy Pay 2 Win players with my weapons.


Just imagine if I had decent amount of resources instead of starving.


Sorry but Pay 2 Win players have a huge advantage...Trying to deny with your sarcasm is pretty sad.


I remember back when PS2 was announced to be F2P, nobody wanted it to be P2W....Now people have accepted the P2W since it benifits them.

[Assist]

Don't worry I destroy Pay 2 Win players with my weapons.


Just imagine if I had decent amount of resources instead of starving.


Sorry but Pay 2 Win players have a huge advantage...Trying to deny with your sarcasm is pretty sad.


I remember back when PS2 was announced to be F2P, nobody wanted it to be P2W....Now people have accepted the P2W since it benifits them.

Just because you say it's pay2win doesn't mean it is. I don't think it is and I think if you had a poll most would agree it's not. Paying doesn't mean you win and not paying doesn't mean you lose.

[Dreamcast]

Just because you say it's pay2win doesn't mean it is. I don't think it is and I think if you had a poll most would agree it's not. Paying doesn't mean you win and not paying doesn't mean you lose.

So is not Pay 2 Win for people to have all their resources full ASAP so therefore they can buy more tanks,planes,insta kill mines,etc.



Sorry but that is Pay 2 Win...You are paying for a SafetyNet...You are paying to be careless.




Just because the game 1 vs 1 situations arn't pay 2 win (I can kill any paying player 1 vs 1)....doesn't mean the game isn't pay 2 win.

Their is an obvious pay 2 win with the resources system.


According to ur logic LoL should give paying players more gold per second......along as u can kill champs by being free player:rolleyes:

[MrMak]

Its like arguing with little child here.

"PAY 2 WIN"

"So he has a bigger stocckpile of mines......I can still shoot him......does not require me to particularly more skilled....just not walk into a frigin mine.....its not Pay 2 Win. Pay 4 Convenicanse at most. Besides a Free player can do pretty much the same thing by just conserving resources and stocking up on what he needs when he needs it. And its not like he can deploy all those 14 mines at the same time."


"No! He has infinite mines PAY 2 WIN! Im right ur wrong!"





Pay 2 win means a SIGNIFICANT DIRECT ADVANTAGE IN DIRECT COMBAT where players of comparable skill will almost always loose. Having more mines in your puch hardly qualifies.


Heck i have no bossts or a subscription and even I sometimes do what that guy did.

But fine repeat your mantra untill you get bored. We have to deal with one guy like that every week or so it seems.

[Phantomdestiny]

Don't worry I destroy Pay 2 Win players with my weapons.


Just imagine if I had decent amount of resources instead of starving.


Sorry but Pay 2 Win players have a huge advantage...Trying to deny with your sarcasm is pretty sad.


I remember back when PS2 was announced to be F2P, nobody wanted it to be P2W....Now people have accepted the P2W since it benifits them.

am i the only one that can't take some one seriously with such an obnoxious character name ? also maybe people would listen to you if you spoke more calmly instead of trying to psedo-insult the devs . really using the word starving for your resource pool , i think you are overreaching your statements here think about people are starving irl before you start speaking like you are right now. From what i see from your outfit your 2 kdr isn't helping your outfit at all so grab a medic gun and stop whining about your lack of grenades .

[Obstruction]

you should quit crying because of your troll name. it's just sad. everyone here is laughing at your anger.

let's examine this statement though:

Before I use to get resources just fine playing normally without farming...Is been these changed with the resources that has screwed over Free players.

so maybe he's spamming maxes still and expecting to buy the same amount of consumables. i mean that's the only change to infantry resource that happened.

[Dreamcast]

Its like arguing with little child here.

"PAY 2 WIN"

"So he has a bigger stocckpile of mines......I can still shoot him......does not require me to particularly more skilled....just not walk into a frigin mine.....its not Pay 2 Win. Pay 4 Convenicanse at most. Besides a Free player can do pretty much the same thing by just conserving resources and stocking up on what he needs when he needs it. And its not like he can deploy all those 14 mines at the same time."


"No! He has infinite mines PAY 2 WIN! Im right ur wrong!"

Paid for Convenience LMFAO.

Paid For Convenience is Certs...Yeah u can buy sidegrades,slight upgrades,options....

But guess what you need resources....so u need to choose on which option u want!!!

That is if you don't buy resource boost...Otherwise, you can just buy everything u want lol.

Is pay 2 Win man.


Like I said is like League of Legends, giving more gold per second to paying member.

[Dreamcast]

am i the only one that can't take some one seriously with such an obnoxious character name ? also maybe people would listen to you if you spoke more calmly instead of trying to psedo-insult the devs . really using the word starving for your resource pool , i think you are overreaching your statements here think about people are starving irl before you start speaking like you are right now. From what i see from your outfit your 2 kdr isn't helping your outfit at all so grab a medic gun and stop whining about your lack of grenades .

What dev did I insult?....lulz.


2.5 k/d ratio helps my empire a lot...I actually advance positions meanwhile my team is busy being afraid.

[Assist]

am i the only one that can't take some one seriously with such an obnoxious character name ? also maybe people would listen to you if you spoke more calmly instead of trying to psedo-insult the devs . really using the word starving for your resource pool , i think you are overreaching your statements here think about people are starving irl before you start speaking like you are right now. From what i see from your outfit your 2 kdr isn't helping your outfit at all so grab a medic gun and stop whining about your lack of grenades .

Should look up some of his posts from the official forums. Not sure if he's still at it, but basically anything non-TR needs to be nerfed because it's incredibly overpowered. Some of the stuff he mentioned is quite literally identical across all three factions.

[Mastachief]

Fun Fact......XP Boost help you gain resources super fast....trust me I know since I had used Xp Boost before.


BTW He had +80 XP bonus.....NC had a high population.

Safe to say he has subscription which gives u resources boost/Xp Boost.


Thus this is the reason he has almost all infantry equipment maxed out at 40.

He is paying 2 win.

Nope hes playing to win. Regardless of subscription if you fight for a long time you struggle to maintain stock of infantry stuff. If you fly or drive and are not particularly good you will struggle with vehicle resources. People who subscribe simply do not need to put as much time in or have to focus fights in certain areas it does not however effect the direct 1 v 1 scenario. But then i don't expect someone that plays around 20minutes a day to understand that.

It is not pay to win its pay to save time and effort.

[Maarvy]

Its always been pay to win , someone who buys weapons has 1000's more certs than someone who uses there certs to unlock them .

Bieng starved of resources must suck , and you cant realy deny that if your paying you get a distinct advantage . But at this point its pretty clear that neither SoE or the Ps2 community in general give a shit since most of them are paying players .

The Cert refund debacle pretty much proved this to be the underlying truth , when soe gave 10,000's of certs instead of station cash refunds and the majority of the community were happy to just STFU about it because they were due a pile of those certs too .

Don't expect any sympathy here crying Pay to Win .Its hard to see the light when your head is stuck so far up sonys arse .

[Dreamcast]

Should look up some of his posts from the official forums. Not sure if he's still at it, but basically anything non-TR needs to be nerfed because it's incredibly overpowered. Some of the stuff he mentioned is quite literally identical across all three factions.


Is funny because a lot of my ideas actually turned out to be put in game.


Also all my post were back in the day, and a lot of the things I said were very true at the time.


Anyways is obvious what you are doing.


Trying to discredit me because you don't like the factual evidence Im providing of Paying Players getting benefits to win


I know you like the game but is sad how ur saying is not Pay 2 Win, just to make the game look good lol.

This is a great game and I recommended to any Free Player because it is fair in 1 vs 1 engagements....but prepare for the obvious pay 2 win with resources.

[MrMak]

Should look up some of his posts from the official forums. Not sure if he's still at it, but basically anything non-TR needs to be nerfed because it's incredibly overpowered. Some of the stuff he mentioned is quite literally identical across all three factions.

Oh oh let be gues.

NC Bolt action sniper rifles are OP! They 1 shot headshot while the TR ones dont! Same with NC Shotguns!

VS Sniper rifles are hitscan and have no drop!


Something along those lines?

[Dreamcast]

Nope hes playing to win. Regardless of subscription if you fight for a long time you struggle to maintain stock of infantry stuff. If you fly or drive and are not particularly good you will struggle with vehicle resources. People who subscribe simply do not need to put as much time in or have to focus fights in certain areas it does not however effect the direct 1 v 1 scenario. But then i don't expect someone that plays around 20minutes a day to understand that.

It is not pay to win its pay to save time and effort.

20 minutes a day wtf? lol..

People who subscribe have a safetynet and have can take more of chance.


Here is a scenerio for you

1 vs 1....Practically equal players....Tank vs Tank...One of them is free 2 play, the other is Pay 2 win.

The F2P player kills P2W Player....Pay 2 win player spawns a tank, kills F2P Player...

The Pay 2 Win player will always have a direct advantage to the Free 2 Play player.

Resources = Power....No other way to put it.

Certs are convenience.

[Qwan]

LMAO :rofl: I remember back before the release they said PS2 was going to be F2P. Guys were like yeaaaa, awesome, that’s so cool of SOE. Guys I’m going to type something and you might get a little upset about it. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS FREE TO PLAY. There is YOU CAN PLAY FOR FREE BUT YOUR NOT GOING TO ENJOY IT and there is, IF YOU REALLY WANT TO ENJOY THIS GAME YOUR GOING TO HAVE TO PAY. Ok so let drop the F2P and replace it with PFFBYNGTE, come on guys you can’t be that nieve. Me I pay my sub, and I get a 7 day xp boost, my XP stays at 100%+ (depending on the cont pop). I knew when they came out with this F2P model it was going to cost more money than just my sub I would pay back in PS1, is it worth it Yea cause I love PS2. See P2P is cheaper for your average gamer, were F2P rakes in the dough for the developers, P2P 13$ or 15$ a month full access to everything, no extra cash required, were as F2P you have two options grind, or spend a little extra cash to get it faster, ;) O and if you want something cool like cammo or a mask grinding won’t get it, you have to pay for that. And I like SOE's explanation for this, "we want to give our gamers options", want to give me an option, give me a P2P option and access to everything. But to keep it plain and simple, No one does anything for free in this business, so please stop lying to yourselves, and get a sub, it’s a nice boost in xp and resources. If you think you’re just going to log in and grind out some certs and buy everything your either delusional or have no life. I’m an Auraxium member, and stay with a xp boost, my C-4, mines, and Grenades stay at 40, but then again I’m a PS2 junky. .... :D

[Ruffdog]

Pay with time or pay with money. Nothing is free bro

[Dreamcast]

LMAO :rofl: I remember back before the release they said PS2 was going to be F2P. Guys were like yeaaaa, awesome, thats so cool of SOE. Guys Im going to type something and you might get a little upset about it. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS FREE TO PLAY. There is YOU CAN PLAY FOR FREE BUT YOU NOT GOING TO ENJOY IT and there is, IF YOU REALLY WANT TO ENJOY THIS GAME YOUR GOING TO HAVE TO PAY. Ok so let drop the F2P and replace it with PFFBYNGTE, come on guys you cant be that nieve. Me I pay my sub, and I get a 7 day xp boost, my XP stays at 100%+ (depending on the cont pop). I knew when they came out with this F2P model it was going to cost more money then just my sub I usta pay back in PS1, is it worth it Yea cause I love PS2. See P2P is cheaper for your average gamer, were F2P rakes in the dough for the developers, P2P 13$ or 15$ a month full access to everthing, no extra cash required, were as F2P you have two options grind, or spend a little extra cash to get it faster, ;) O and if you want somthing cool like cammo or a mask grinding wont get it, you have to pay for that. And I like SOE's explanation for this, "we want to give our gamers options". But to keep it plain and simple, No one does anything for free in this buisness, so please stop lying to yourselves, and get a sub, its a nice boost in xp and resources. If you think your just going to log in and grind out some certs and by everthing your either delutional or have no life. Im a Auraxium member, and stay with a xp boost, my C-4, mines, and Grenades stay at 40, but then again im a PS2 junky. .... :D

League of Legends....is a fair free 2 play game....They only boost XP/IP which are basically certs...They just give you sidegrades/options.


Certs are not pay 2 win....Sure they give u slight upgrades,sidegrades,options.

But you can buy medkits,revive grenades,c4,mines with certs.....but you still need the resources to use them.


So yes you might have more options...but u don't have the power to have an endless supply of resources.


That will be a close fair game....since resources can't be bought with money.


Resource boost is just plain Pay 2 Win

[Dreamcast]

Pay with time or pay with money. Nothing is free bro

Like I said League of Legends.


Certs are fair...I see no problem with XP boost.


Resources boost on the other hand...is like Riot giving paying members more gold per second lol.

[Mastachief]

Resource boost is just plain Pay 2 Win


It's just not, its pay for convenience. Out of resources? you better wait or pay a subscription and get more per tick. It is time nothing more.

[Obstruction]

Pay with time or pay with money. Nothing is free bro

Gas, Grass, or Ass, AM I RITE???!

[BackzBanny]

So a paying member who doesn't have any other boosts gets +50% ressources and +50% xp.

that improves his passive income by 50% and his active income also.
as you don't "like" to have to fight in inf-res-areas "just to get your damn ressources", let's assume said paying member behaves the same.

so in conclusion, he gets 1.5 times the ressources you get. BIG DEAL. so every time YOU put down a mine, he puts down one and a half. that's gonna rack dem kills up for him, sure...

considering that you are "starving", even that paying member must still be pretty hungry with his 1.5 times res income... -.-

[Qwan]

Like I said League of Legends.


Certs are fair...I see no problem with XP boost.


Resources boost on the other hand...is like Riot giving paying members more gold per second lol.

Actually a sub will take care of the resource thingy, I never buy a resource booster, just xp boost, my subscription takes care of my resources boost. But sometimes if im fighting on a cont were we own very little bases, I burn threw C-4 and mines, and to fix that I go to conts were we own more territory, get more resources per cycle.

[EvilNinjadude]

Here's what I see.

u gotta have resources otherwise nothing works just look at that guy he has so many certs and so many resources because he paid and now he's so much better than me and the devs shouldn't make us pay for anything because they said it would be free and now they're making us pay

>Implying this game is Pay2Win

Pay2Win=You have no chance of winning if you don't pay; non-paying members get no access to game-changing things that paying members get.

>Implying we have no other choice, devs force us to pay if we want to be good
No, no, no. You can spend more time playing, get those certs, cert into what you want, get resources, upgrade your tank and do everything Paying players do.

>Implying you need resources to be good
Lol. Get an AV rocket launcher, get one or two buddies, and take down that tank for free. Alternatively use resources to take out a tank twice as expensive as what you used to take them out with.

>"Nonstop camper-killing mines are OP! He gets SO MANY KILLS with them! He gets SO MANY CERTS":cry:
Those kills did nothing to change the outcome of what he was doing. So he gets more certs, so what? He's got a boost too, getting him more certs, XP, resources. That's the point of a boost. He's paying so he can get benefits. They're not game-altering benefits that make him unkillable, or straight up better than you in a firefight. And that example with the tanks is moot because you're not seriously trying to tell me that you wouldn't have repaired your tank by the time he brought his new one?

What I DO agree with is that everything places a lot of focus on resources. Resources get you consumables and vehicles, so it's tough countering vehicles without resources. However in infantry fights resources are almost a non-issue since mines don't capture territory or kill a person twice; so if there's a medic a mine does nothing at all.

[Crator]

Did we really need another thread about this? Lets talk about the resource system. Right now, its borderline Pay to Win (http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?t=55707)

I don't consider resources a means to outright WIN at this game. So, did this person in the video outright win the fight at the base due to his overuse of resource items? Perhaps he had more personal kills then the normal guy, but does that mean he won?

[raw]

http://www.geardiary.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/conspiracy.jpg

[PredatorFour]

Killing people is lame anyway....

[Sock]

You're welcome for subsidizing this game for you.
Subs give players more options, they don't make anything inherently better.
That's how F2P games work. Sorry you don't like it. I'd tell you to vote with your wallet and take your money elsewhere, but you seem content to carry on freeloading and whining.

[Bocheezu]

As a free player, the only thing I really have to be careful about is C4. I used to fly around as LA and try to hit big packs of MAXes, and a majority of the time I'd drop the C4 and die before detonating. Just a complete waste. I kept buying more and more C4 and suddenly I realized I was out of medkits. Being out of medkits is much, much worse than being out of C4. So free players have to prioritize things; I stopped buying C4 and played medic so I wouldn't need medkits. I view C4 as a luxury item and really only use it if I have to blow up a Sundy or kill a MAX 1v1. I have claymores, but I haven't dropped one of those in months.

[Chowley]

I must agree with the OP I came back to PS2 recently after taking a break for a while. All I could think was jesus what have they done to resources. I thought it was suppose to be a game mechanic, not just another way to push you to pay. Its horrible.

The idea of playing in an infantry hex, a lot of people play with platoons, do not have a choice to go to an infantry hex. I dont enjoy playing solo, so to get the resources I would have to play without a platoon and endure huge frustration, thats not good enough.

[Artimus]

Well I sub. and I burn through my infantry resources fairly quick, mainly due to anti tank mines, but I still run low consisantly since the resource change. So don't say it's pay2win because everyone is getting the effects since the update.

[TermiGR]

Sorry, but this P2W Discussions make me sick! You can gain resources without paying a dime! Yes you can gain them faster if you pay some money -> there has to be a difference between contributers and F2P Players. Otherwise nobody would pay for this game and the game would die after a few months. Stop complaining and pay or Play 4 Free.

[AThreatToYou]

While I agree somewhat on the "P2W" argument, it's easy for an F2P player to stock up on things like grenades and medkits. Personally I never have any less than 35 C4, AV nades, resto kits, AP grenades, rez grenades and I don't have a sub/boost.

[GeoGnome]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=X_XEg-K8sHU#at=30


No doubt in my mind this game is 100% Pay 2 Win now.


That guy has multiple infantry things maxed at 40.....no wonder he can just run around instakilling people with mines.

Their is absolutely zero risk if you have resource boost...Is Pay 2 win.


Meanwhile a free 2 play player like me has around 2-5 med kits or 2 -5 grenades.....

On a good day when the battle takes plays on biolab, I can get it up to 15 medkits 10 grenades lulz.


This is a joke.


I loved this game but lately with the resources change, I had like no resources at all for infantry..


Sorry SOE, at one time the game's hidden P2W wasn't that obvious...

Now the game has Obvious Pay 2 Win.

So... I have 32 C4, 20 tank mines, 15 frag grenades, 10 claymores, 10 AV grenades, 10 EMP grenades...

And I don't pay anything.

Infact after the resource cost increase on vehicles I've been carefully restocking my supply of everything infantry... It's not that hard to do. I don't pay for a sub, and I used to have a boost, but it ran out about 2 weeks ago. Oh, and I was Out of everything except C4 when my boost ran out (And at the time I only had 12 C4).

Allow me to introduce you to a revolutionary concept, it's called Budgeting...

[Hamma]

How many threads do we have to bring this up in? I think it's a non issue to be honest. I've played a char on an account with nothing and I never felt hamstrung other than not having the abilities I put certs into on my main.

[Mastachief]

Allow me to introduce you to a revolutionary concept, it's called Budgeting...

You mad man.

[Kiten]

I am a free player.

Vehicle-wise, I personally don't feel limited as resources even after the change. I'm very conservative about my vehicles and I don't just roll them out unless I judge the situation to be appropriate for them. For example I'd hate to suicide my tank into an infantry nest without support, or to roll it out only to be one of the many versus the few; admittedly this means I don't play with my Magrider as often as I'd like, but I am quite sure I am effective and have fun when I do play it.

tl;dr I don't pull vehicles as often as my timer allows me to, so I don't feel the change too much. It just encourages my conservatism even more.

Infantry-wise, I've always managed to stay stocked up on grenades, mines and C4. But I do *not* use medikits, and I'm positive I would run out of infantry resources like nothing if I were to unlock them. The recent change also means I generally have to choose between using C4 or pulling MAX units; which is not too much of a concern at the moment, but I fear the day my Heavy Assault starts carrying C4 as well.

[wasdie]

Pay 2 Win = unable to beat somebody who has paid money

Last I checked AV rocket launchers were free and you can still purchase consumables with resources. Nothing is stopping you. You may not be able to place as many over the same amount of time as somebody who pays, but there is nothing stopping you from defeating people who have a subscription or resource boost.

It's a convince item. I paid for a year sub and I still have my alpha squad boost yet people who haven't paid a time slaughter me all of the time in my vehicles and with their mines. That's not really pay to win.

My effectiveness on the battlefield is no higher than somebody who doesn't pay. A vehicle is only as good as you make it. If you're being destroyed very quickly in your vehicles you wouldn't benefit by being able to pull even more. You've gotta change your playstyle to maximize your effectiveness on the battlefield.

This game is far from pay to win. You should go play a REAL pay to win game like pretty much every other "free-to-play" FPS on the market. Games that charge you money for limited use of items that you NEED if you want to stay competitive. That's real pay-to-win.

[KesTro]

As if any of this matters anyways. Somewhere along the lien did you forget to read that there's going to be a resource overhaul? This isn't a 'great' system but sure as hell is a better one then when you could mindlessly pull anything and LOL for 30 minutes before pulling another. Heavens forbid you have to think with your tank for once. Much more with your use of C4.

[Dragonskin]

Pay 2 Win = unable to beat somebody who has paid money

This game is far from pay to win. You should go play a REAL pay to win game like pretty much every other "free-to-play" FPS on the market. Games that charge you money for limited use of items that you NEED if you want to stay competitive. That's real pay-to-win.

This has been stated by myself and many others in quite a few threads now. Can't use logic against Dreamcast... he is right and everyone else that opposes him is wrong. He stretches the phrase Pay to Win to fit whatever argument he brings up even though it's not the true definition.

I will echo you though. If you feel that this game is Pay to Win then by all means try some more Free to Play games... i mean really try them because it won't take you long to realize that Planetside 2 is miles away from Pay to Win.

[wasdie]

Also I want to quickly add that expect it to feel like you're not getting the whole experience if you don't pay. That's the whole point of F2P. It's also the reason I don't like every game going F2P. From what I can see Planetside 2 has probably the best F2P system out there and you can get a fantastic experience and hundreds of hours of gameplay without paying, but F2P's very nature is for the people who do not pay to not get the whole experience. That's the plague of all F2P games.

I wish Planetside 2 would have done a Guild Wars 2 style retail model with some sort of an extra cash shop. This way you can eliminate hackers much more quickly and efficiently, everybody feels like they are getting a solid product, and the devs would have got more money up front. Also it lets the devs focus on more content oriented updates rather than cosmetics.

[Dragonskin]

I wish Planetside 2 would have done a Guild Wars 2 style retail model with some sort of an extra cash shop. This way you can eliminate hackers much more quickly and efficiently, everybody feels like they are getting a solid product, and the devs would have got more money up front. Also it lets the devs focus on more content oriented updates rather than cosmetics.

This would have been amazing. Guild Wars 2 isn't pay to win and you don't have to pay to play once you buy the game. I just wish the game was better.. but that is a topic for a different discussion. If they would have released like GW2 and had store items they have now I think it would have been a better model overall.

[Calista]

Well the thing is, by SOE's definition, it's only P2W if you can get something by paying for it that you can't earn in-game. Granted you are limited by not paying but according to SOE that is not P2W. I am not saying I necessarily agree with it but that is the mantra that dictates SOE's stance.

[Wahooo]

My favorite thing about having paid a sub for this game and dumped some extra cash in, is all of the weapons that I have that are unavailable to F2P players.... oh and the extra ammo I get to carry, oh and the tank shells that do extra damage, and the special mines that F2P players don't get.

oh wait... that isn't the case. Everything a paying player gets a F2P player can get. It may just take some time. If you want every thing in game unlocked? Good luck.

The advantage of paying and not paying is pretty damn slight. You throw around "Pay 2 Win" so freely it is almost comical.. I picture a little tear in the corner of your eyes as you say it.

[Wahooo]

From what I can see Planetside 2 has probably the best F2P system out there and you can get a fantastic experience and hundreds of hours of gameplay without paying, but F2P's very nature is for the people who do not pay to not get the whole experience. That's the plague of all F2P games.


Honestly Dreamcast is right about railing on LoL's F2P model. It is kinda the gold standard, but it is also pretty alone there. MOST f2p games are anything but, more like extended trials, or the f2p players are just fodder for the 'real' customers.

Of all the games i've played in the last couple years PS2 is one of only a few I started out trying to play free and made me WANT to put money into rather than feel I NEEDED to put money into. Which is all I really want from a f2p game. It is where my line is drawn. If a game makes me feel to compete I have to put the money in, I'll keep trying but for most of those games I won't put the money in and just fade away, or outright rage quit. PS2? gets me to WANT to pay some, yes so I can speed up the unlocks, the i want it now stuff, but not like say, APB where 90% of my deaths for a play session are to weapons that are only real money available.

[EvilNinjadude]

I don't think he's trying any more. He just up and left when he realized he was good as alone.

Personally, I think they (Pay2Win) lost any chance of having intelligent people side with them when one mentioned that people on the other side of the fence had "their heads up SOE's butt". If you insult the people trying to have a sensible argument... just... screw you.

My favorite thing about having paid a sub for this game and dumped some extra cash in, is all of the weapons that I have that are unavailable to F2P players.... oh and the extra ammo I get to carry, oh and the tank shells that do extra damage, and the special mines that F2P players don't get.

oh wait... that isn't the case.Ya see that, Dreamcast? That's what a Pay2Win game looks like. Pick up War Inc from steam, or War Z, by the same dudes. Look at War Inc. You RENT OUT weapons for in-game currency. It doesn't take long to acquire enough of it for a day, but then, whoop-de-do, it's gone. The more advanced you get, the more per day you have to play. And permanently unlocking the weapon? Costs real money. More than half the weapons are unavailable for F2Pers. But hey, there's hats! Also real money, of course. Did I mention that the best guns are unavailable to F2Pers?
Also, a "key" you can buy that allows you to refill ammo from boxes scattered around the map. Also boosts, extra loadouts ET BLOODY CETERA.

[Qwan]

OMG people no game out there is free to play, if your want to be competative, and actually enjoy the game, your gonna have to pay something at some point and time.

[Chaff]

.
......the best part of Dreamcast's rant is that his av name is "ImGladUmad"

....kinda how I feel towards Dreamcast.

Also; What in God's name do you "Win" in this game ?

PAY to "WIN" what ? You don't win shit. You play to have fun. People who pay for Subs & boosts likely don't have any more fun, they just have to "wait" a little less time for their resources & certs to (re)generate.
.

[Qwan]

.
......the best part of Dreamcast's rant is that his av name is "ImGladUmad"

....kinda how I feel towards Dreamcast.

Also; What in God's name do you "Win" in this game ?

PAY to "WIN" what ? You don't win shit. You play to have fun. People who pay for Subs & boosts likely don't have any more fun, they just have to "wait" a little less time for their resources & certs to (re)generate.
.

Hmm I like this better than PFFBYNGTE (Play for free but your not going to enjoy it) we should call it Pay to have fun or P2HF. Yea I like that better P2HF.

Just give it up guys, the new formate for all MMO's now a days is F2P, or P2HF or even PFFBYNGTE. But honestly If I made a MMO I would do the same thing, there is more money in it in the short run. Because the average consumer will pay the extra money to get the edge faster. I mean F2P formates have its cons, instant access to the game for everyone, create an account and play, no credit card required (opens the doors for hacks), no age check so kids can download and jump right in, anyone can join, even that annoying kid who stays at the warpgate and crashes into other players.

I just hope L3 is not F2P.

[Dreamcast]

First of All...League of Legends is a Free 2 Play game that is pretty much fair, u know the game Planetside 2 said it tried to copy in terms of F2P model.



If LoL did what Planetside 2 is doing by selling ingame resources which = Power....Than LoL will be giving out more in game gold to players which directly effects the game...or giving them more consumables which again directly effect the game

Basically LoL will be consider a joke and non competitive game...A Pay 2 Win game because of the huge advantage of playing even tho a Free Player can own a paying player if he is good enough.

Using the excuse "OMG you can still kill em even if you are Free players"is a horrible excuse.....An in Game player shouldn't have the advantage of having more resources or Gold just simply because he pays.

[Chaff]

^
.
You're funny.

Or, you're trolling.

Or, you've flipped you wig (at least temporarily)


....good luck with any and all of the above.

.

[Dreamcast]

.
You're funny.

Or, you're trolling.

Or, you've flipped you wig (at least temporarily)


....good luck with any and all of the above.

.


Exactly LoL made a F2P that was fair...Where paying money doesn't mean you get more in game gold or consumables.


Planetside 2 on the other hand, you can buy power.


LoL would be consider a joke if it did the exact same thing as Planetside 2.

[Chaff]

.
Go play LOL.

Let it go, man. Let it go. Go outside. Go for a hike. Get some fresh air. You'll get past this someday.
.

[Dreamcast]

.
Go play LOL.

Let it go, man. Let it go. Go outside. Go for a hike. Get some fresh air. You'll get past this someday.
.

I love Planetside 2...Played since August.


But it amazes me how people deny the Pay 2 Win aspect of the game specially when there is Games like League of Legends.


Is ok tho I still own Pay 2 Win players even with my obvious in game disadvantage...so I will keep playing.


Just wished Planetside 2 was a legitimate game like League of Legends...Where a person can't buy in game power but just convenience.

[Dragonskin]

I love Planetside 2...Played since August.


But it amazes me how people deny the Pay 2 Win aspect of the game specially when there is Games like League of Legends.


Is ok tho I still own Pay 2 Win players even with my obvious in game disadvantage...so I will keep playing.


Just wished Planetside 2 was a legitimate game like League of Legends...Where a person can't buy in game power but just convenience.

People in Planetside 2 buy convenience. The convenience is that resources regenerate faster and they get experience faster. It doesn't give a player an inherit WIN advantage that a free play can not over come.

That is the part that is wrong with your argument. You keep forcing this idea that paying players WIN... what do they win? What makes a paying player unstoppable? What exactly can a paying player get that makes them more powerful than a same skill set player? The ability to use more resources doesn't grant a gauranteed victory against free players. Nothing grants you the absolute WIN that would be required for you to call this a pay to win. There is nothing to win.

[Obstruction]

it's not really the same as gold per second. that actually means you get your build out faster and go back less. i see the parallel you're trying to draw but it doesn't hold up.

in PS2 resources equate to downtime tallied against certain playstyles. meaning if you only like tanks or planes, you face some downtime if you are bad and can't earn enough xp to get the resources back, or stay up long enough to get it over time. or so bad you can't just change continents and figure out a way to farm it for 20 minutes. like you.

but i digress. the analogy doesn't hold up because even if you are so bad that you ran out of EVERYTHING and so lame that you can't find a way to get more, AND your whole faction is warpgated on 3 continents, so that you can only get 10 resource every 5 minutes, you can STILL go out and fight on even terms with every other player out there because spawning infantry and shooting bullets costs no resource.

this is what people are telling you. grenades, medkits, C4, are not required to succeed. and even if all the above conditions were true, you can get at least 1 grenade every 20 minutes just sitting on your ass in the warpgate at the minimum possible infantry resource. obviously you can get more by putting effort into finding resource.

all of that said i definitely think the resource system is flawed, and everyone, including the developers, know it needs to change, and those changes are planned. but that fact notwithstanding, the current (bad) resource system is not pay to win and it is not unworkable. you just have to not be a retard, basically. but i guess not everyone can meet that requirement.

but seriously though, i'm not joking about this part: we are all laughing at your stupidity. we are all glad you are so mad. we're loling at you because of the unintentional irony of your troll name. and you should keep posting and keep crying more, because it's really providing great internet.

[DynamoECT]

There has to be some form of benefit to paying real money, or people won't do it and the game will die. However it's in everyone's interest for that benefit to be not too extreme or the free players will quit and the game will die.

I think PS2 has it about right, maybe there's room to even up the resources a bit. However the guns all still kill the same whether you pay or not, there's loads of options to win without buying infinite mines. It seems some people just want the subscribers to PFN (pay for nothing)

[Dreamcast]

it's not really the same as gold per second. that actually means you get your build out faster and go back less. i see the parallel you're trying to draw but it doesn't hold up.

in PS2 resources equate to downtime tallied against certain playstyles. meaning if you only like tanks or planes, you face some downtime if you are bad and can't earn enough xp to get the resources back, or stay up long enough to get it over time. or so bad you can't just change continents and figure out a way to farm it for 20 minutes. like you.

but i digress. the analogy doesn't hold up because even if you are so bad that you ran out of EVERYTHING and so lame that you can't find a way to get more, AND your whole faction is warpgated on 3 continents, so that you can only get 10 resource every 5 minutes, you can STILL go out and fight on even terms with every other player out there because spawning infantry and shooting bullets costs no resource.

this is what people are telling you. grenades, medkits, C4, are not required to succeed. and even if all the above conditions were true, you can get at least 1 grenade every 20 minutes just sitting on your ass in the warpgate at the minimum possible infantry resource. obviously you can get more by putting effort into finding resource.

all of that said i definitely think the resource system is flawed, and everyone, including the developers, know it needs to change, and those changes are planned. but that fact notwithstanding, the current (bad) resource system is not pay to win and it is not unworkable. you just have to not be a retard, basically. but i guess not everyone can meet that requirement.

but seriously though, i'm not joking about this part: we are all laughing at your stupidity. we are all glad you are so mad. we're loling at you because of the unintentional irony of your troll name. and you should keep posting and keep crying more, because it's really providing great internet.

Resources = In game Power.

Gold/Consumables = In game Power in LoL


Is not the exact situation but is still in game power.


Also I like how u mention how if your a bad player then you face downtime...How about equal players?

If their two equal players, one pays and the other is free 2 play, both have tanks...with 50/50 chance of killing eachother.

Guess what....Eventually the Paying Player is gonna have the resources to destroy the free 2 play Player since he has the money to buy the most tanks/planes.


That is Pay 2 Win.

[GeoGnome]

Resources = In game Power.

Gold/Consumables = In game Power in LoL


Is not the exact situation but is still in game power.


Also I like how u mention how if your a bad player then you face downtime...How about equal players?

If their two equal players, one pays and the other is free 2 play, both have tanks...with 50/50 chance of killing eachother.

Guess what....Eventually the Paying Player is gonna have the resources to destroy the free 2 play Player since he has the money to buy the most tanks/planes.


That is Pay 2 Win.
No it's not.

If I'm understanding you your saying that because you can boost XP, you can earn more XP faster, you can buy more things faster, you can kill easier, therefore you can get more resources by killing more people in hexes that grant you resources... therefore Play to win.

I would say that is roundabout nonsense.

The guns you advance to simply fill different rolls. The Gauss Saw is one of the most used weapons... I see BR100s using the thing, and it's the Starting Weapon. The Bolt driver is a bolt action sniper rifle, pretty much all you need for an infiltrator sniper... and that is what you start with. The T9 Carv is a phenomenal gun... you start with it. The dumbfire rocket launchers are better long range, because they are OHK on a direct hit, they are more versatile than lockons, and they can down a max in 1-2 hits... you start with those as well.

For your theory to work, None of the starting weapons would be any good, and you would be nearly forced to upgrade to something new... when that is just Not True. There are some upgrades for each of the things I recommended, but the thing is... in the chaos that is PS2 battle, it's never Necessary. I own the Bull for my TR heavy, because I had 1000 SC kicking around and bought it on a whim. I'll go back to my CARV when I get auraxian.

And once you get to a certain point (For me it was BR 35, but I hear it's worse when you get to around BR 60) you just don't need certs anymore... you'll spend them on a whim, because you have 10,000 of them and nothing to spend on.

Yeah, BR60 is pretty high up there, but I got to that point with BR 35... now I'm BR 50... I have almost 1200 certs, I don't use boosts or anything anymore because I want the climb to 100 to mean more. And I'm earning a boatload of resources without even having to worry myself about them at all.

As much as you wish upon a star for the game to be Play to win, dodgy logic and silly hypothesis wont make it so.

[Obstruction]

it must really burn your ass that i keep a Lib for 2-3 hours while my Air resources sit capped, and i basically never buy anything with infantry resources because other than keeping a dozen medkits and C4 i can't really be bothered to spend it.

and you know, your ridiculous hypothesis about equal players NEVER plays out that way.

in LoL you have 5 v 5 with a match to win and certain milestones to meet along the way, each player trying to reach certain points in their build before minute 15 or whatever. in that game the gold per second is finite if everyone is farming equally, so getting more per second really counts towards meeting those milestones. i understand what you are saying there. if one whole team gets more per second and the other team doesn't, they will meet milestones faster and dominate the lanes, deny even more possible gold, and win every conflict.

in planetside it is never like that. it never ends, there is no win, no milestones, only personal achievement, and personal downtime.

there is no mythical 1 v 1 continent where that paying member beats you and ruins your life because of your RL poverty.

and here i am going to admit that i, of all these people, actually come closest to seeing that play out. i am a full time pilot in a dedicated Lib crew, and we have rival Lib crews and ESF wings that come for us because of our rep. we fight them all day long and sometimes we run dry of my resources and then run out my partner's resources or timers.

so then we go drive a harasser for a while, or go to ground and play support infantry until we can go back to what we like.

that's basically it.

there's no one ruining our time because they have something we don't. there's no match loss where we never had a chance because they got more per minute than we did.

every time we go up and face our rivals, we have a good time, and we give them a good fight. and sometimes they get us, for any number of reasons. but resources are never one of those reasons.

[maradine]

Nerf money. Cash is OP.

[EvilNinjadude]

Resources = Gold per second

I lol'd. You actually kinda need gold to get better gear faster than anybody else. There we have it again, faster.

Did you watch ANY Planetside 2 trailer? Do you know what "persistent world" actually means? It seems you don't. You're just a stupid little kid who won't listen to people. In this game, no matter how long you've been upgrading yourself, you're all in the same world. But it's okay because you have teammates with high BRs too. The rate at which you earn things won't be dependent on resources. At the beginning of the game, you'll hardly even care about infantry resources because you don't need them that much yet.
tl;dr PS2 IS NOT A RACE. IT IS NOT FOCUSED ON TIME. LoL IS.

What you COULD compare it to (look, I'm even TRYING to help you instead of dismissing you as a troll? Does that mean nothing to you?) is RESPAWN TIME after someone rapes ganks your ass because that's how the game works. That's like resources, because you can get back in the game and make a difference faster... which is how resources work. It's time-based... which is how resources work. It's the perfect analogy.

And since the analogy is perfect, we can use it to shoot holes in YOUR argument. Because you know what getting back into the game faster won't do? Help you jack in an isolated engagement. You get ganked, you die as fast as anyone else, because that's how the game works (Another way in which the GOLD! analogy is out of place here).
If you respawn faster, you can stay on the field more, make a difference for longer, participate in more battles, and ultimately, IF you do well with all this, make a difference.
What it won't do is give you MOAR POWAR, as you claim.



Tl;Dr:Go back and read my whole post, Dreamcast, for it shows how silly you are. No tl;dr for you.

[LayZ]

League of Legends

League of Legends

*gobble slurp*

League of Legends

LEAGUE OF LEGENDS

Why don't you stop whining about PS2, a completely different game than LoL, and just go play LoL.

[Phreec]

Sub/boosters "unlimited" resources aren't just convenience since they actually affect gameplay and artificially limit the performance of F2P players. People getting certs etc faster or cosmetics is fine however paying players getting what's basically unlimited C4 is borderline P2W.
It's not as obvious or blatant as some games are, but you can't deny it leaves you at a severe disadvantage unless you pay. Sometimes I can't effectively hold back enemy MAX's or defend bases by destroying enemy Sunderers since my C4 supply is constantly low...

I love this game but I can't defend this aspect of it. The F2P model started out fine, but it's gradually getting worse.

[Dragonskin]

Sub/boosters "unlimited" resources aren't just convenience since they actually affect gameplay and artificially limit the performance of F2P players. People getting certs etc faster or cosmetics is fine however paying players getting what's basically unlimited C4 is borderline P2W.
It's not as obvious or blatant as some games are, but you can't deny it leaves you at a severe disadvantage unless you pay. Sometimes I can't effectively hold back enemy MAX's or defend bases by destroying enemy Sunderers since my C4 supply is constantly low...

I love this game but I can't defend this aspect of it. The F2P model started out fine, but it's gradually getting worse.

You can't single handedly kill maxes and sunderers because your resources are low? That must be terrible since there would be absolutely no chance of friendly help ever resolving those issues.. oh wait... it's a multiple player game in a persistent world meaning people log in and out at will while the game plays on. Also those friendlies all have access to explosives regardless of their resource count. Underbarrel grenade launchers don't take resources. AV mana turrets don't take resources. Then most importantly rocket launchers don't take resources. Primary and secondary weapons don't take resources. How will you ever kill enemy max or sunderer without C4?

You aren't going to win a P2W argument trying to build 1v1 scenarios in a game where true 1v1's rarely ever happen...not saying you did exactly, but your comment is pretty close. The fact is that the game has so many variables that resources aren't a huge factor. All base captures come down to infantry. Infantry don't require resources to spawn. They only require resources to use select items that may or may not help the situation. Just because you put C4 out doesn't mean you get to detonate it before someone kills you.

[Ghoest9]

I thiink you guys ate missing the mot basic argument against the OP.

Its not P2W because AP spam is not the best way earn certs(nor the best way to cap a base.)

It is '"pay for more options in fun play styles."



Also as a correction you can spam AP a long time if you are in the right hex for inf resources but you cant do it forever.

[Phreec]

You can't single handedly kill maxes and sunderers because your resources are low? That must be terrible since there would be absolutely no chance of friendly help ever resolving those issues.. oh wait... it's a multiple player game in a persistent world meaning people log in and out at will while the game plays on. Also those friendlies all have access to explosives regardless of their resource count. Underbarrel grenade launchers don't take resources. AV mana turrets don't take resources. Then most importantly rocket launchers don't take resources. Primary and secondary weapons don't take resources. How will you ever kill enemy max or sunderer without C4?

You aren't going to win a P2W argument trying to build 1v1 scenarios in a game where true 1v1's rarely ever happen...not saying you did exactly, but your comment is pretty close. The fact is that the game has so many variables that resources aren't a huge factor. All base captures come down to infantry. Infantry don't require resources to spawn. They only require resources to use select items that may or may not help the situation. Just because you put C4 out doesn't mean you get to detonate it before someone kills you.
Yeah all right I'll just start UBGL'ing Sunderers or wait for others to do it for me. If I was a sub I could easily do it myself. Totally not buying power. :|

Like I said, it limits your effectiveness. Are you supposed to pay to stay competitive? I've seen the same foul business model before, you're lured in with a seemingly fair chance as F2P and the higher and more invested you get the harder it gets to stay effective without paying. That's exactly how PS2 is evolving and that's P2W in my books.

[maradine]

Would you rather just pay a flat 15 bucks a month?

[Calista]

Would you rather just pay a flat 15 bucks a month?

For the game as it is now? NO. But a fully fleshed out version? Hell yes!

[Chaff]

.

STOP TROLLING.
I got a free car from the Homeless Shelter, but there's all these rich sons a bitches in La Jolla buying Jaguars and Mercedes who have nicer cars than me. They drive their better cars more because they can afford to buy more gas than me. I have to wait and convert Food Stamps into gas vouchers. It's an unfair PTLB (Pay-To-Live-Better) World. oh booohooohoohooohoooo.

PS2 game is F2P. There is No "Win" in a persistent World. What these entitlement Trolls want is EVERYTHING FOR NOTHING. LOL is perfectly fair. I'm not trolling. I'm just simply a closed-minded entitlement cry baby.

Guess what, some of the people at SOE get PAID. They build & work in and around games for a living. There HAS TO BE A REVENUE STREAM in order for the game to be created & sustain itself. It's not "free" to make video games. Why expect to play any for free ? What is wrong with y'all ?

You can call PS2 any of the following;
P2LP (pay to "look" pretty) .... PFC (Pay For Convenience). Getting a gun or resources sooner is NOT a "win" of any kind. It is nothing more than having the opportunity to use resources (C4 ?) a little quicker than the F2P crowd.

I NEVER know, nor have I EVER paused to wonder ..... was THAT a F2P AP mine, or was it a guy with a Sub ? Perhaps, you should try calling PS2 ....
PFTOTKWERALQTF (Pay For The Opportunity To Kill With Expensive Resources A Little Quicker Than Freeloaders).
.

[Climhazzard]

How has no one pointed out that the video in the OP was also shot during a Double XP holiday?

[Chaff]

Would you rather just pay a flat 15 bucks a month?


:eek:


I'll pay $15 a month when PS2 becomes better than LEAGUE OF LEGENDS !

:lol:

[Falcon_br]

You are wrong, the resource change did affected p2w members!
Now I can no longer pull prowlers to all my squad, I can just pull two of then if I synchronize the acquisition time with the resource tick time.
Even using maxes I don´t recall the last time I was not with all my mines/c4/med kit/etc on maximum.

[NewSith]

I disagree. I would want to make a constructive, reply, but I only wanted to note that my platinum membership vs f2p didn't really prove to be much different.

Afterall, I'm with Assist here. Sarcastic or not, Pay2Win and Pay2Benefit are two different things. Resources don't play much role in "how" you play. The situation the guy shows is veeeery occasional. It's like saying that Liberator is OP based on a video where it Zephyrs a platoon consisting solely of engineers, trying to footzerg an outpost.

[Wahooo]

Like I said, it limits your effectiveness. Are you supposed to pay to stay competitive? I've seen the same foul business model before, you're lured in with a seemingly fair chance as F2P and the higher and more invested you get the harder it gets to stay effective without paying. That's exactly how PS2 is evolving and that's P2W in my books.

This is only true if you have a one dimensional play style. As was pointed out, even if you get the 50% bonus, that is 3 ticks to a f2p's 2, if you only play a one dimensional game, all air or all tanks, or all max or rely on consumables, the you will run low a lot.

It may force you to change a play style for a bit. But so do vehicle/max timers, and the resource system in general. It is only a hit to your effectiveness if you are a one dimensional player.

Maybe a little unfair, A LITTLE, unfair but screaming P2W over this is so f-ing trivial. Just saying P2W, to ME means buying a direct advantage right away. Something that is 100% a change that you just can't get as a f2P player. The number of games out there that fall into that category is huge.
The number of games that are not in anyway, shape or form pay for a little advantage? NONE. Even LOL, having more champions at your disposal is an advantage, not huge, but quicker XP and champions you like.

Its just that any F2P game needs to give the paying customers SOMETHING right? Anytime that something affects the game in the slightest way someone is going to cry P2W. Well there are degrees to it. And from my standpoint PS2's is on the very low, scale and very acceptable level.

[maradine]

:eek:


I'll pay $15 a month when PS2 becomes better than LEAGUE OF LEGENDS !

:lol:

Then this is a pretty interesting perspective on how you value your time, no?

[Dreamcast]

it must really burn your ass that i keep a Lib for 2-3 hours while my Air resources sit capped, and i basically never buy anything with infantry resources because other than keeping a dozen medkits and C4 i can't really be bothered to spend it.

and you know, your ridiculous hypothesis about equal players NEVER plays out that way.

in LoL you have 5 v 5 with a match to win and certain milestones to meet along the way, each player trying to reach certain points in their build before minute 15 or whatever. in that game the gold per second is finite if everyone is farming equally, so getting more per second really counts towards meeting those milestones. i understand what you are saying there. if one whole team gets more per second and the other team doesn't, they will meet milestones faster and dominate the lanes, deny even more possible gold, and win every conflict.

in planetside it is never like that. it never ends, there is no win, no milestones, only personal achievement, and personal downtime.

there is no mythical 1 v 1 continent where that paying member beats you and ruins your life because of your RL poverty.

and here i am going to admit that i, of all these people, actually come closest to seeing that play out. i am a full time pilot in a dedicated Lib crew, and we have rival Lib crews and ESF wings that come for us because of our rep. we fight them all day long and sometimes we run dry of my resources and then run out my partner's resources or timers.

so then we go drive a harasser for a while, or go to ground and play support infantry until we can go back to what we like.

that's basically it.

there's no one ruining our time because they have something we don't. there's no match loss where we never had a chance because they got more per minute than we did.

every time we go up and face our rivals, we have a good time, and we give them a good fight. and sometimes they get us, for any number of reasons. but resources are never one of those reasons.

Their is "winning" in this game.

Sure the game never tells u "U Won"....but winning is measured by Success/Kills.


Something that Resources give you way better odds of.


The Equal theory I mentioned is to show you how it is in game power...If players are equal to each other, with equal gear...Guess what the one with the most resources can use the most tanks/planes....Which in turn effects a battles outcome.

Sorry but that is "winning" in the game....Their is absolutely 0 negatives about having more resources.

This is different then certs because you can have different sidegrade guns but you are still sacrificing something since is a sidegrade...at best Certs give u slight upgrades...and of course options that needs in game resources to use (C4,mines,etc)..Not really buying power IMO, that is true convenience.

Just because their isn't an End game doesn't mean their isn't winning in this game.


BTW If resources didn't matter than why isn't winning a continent 50% off infantry,air,vehicle resources?.....Because SOE will no that is way to OP for any Empire who has that.

[Lonehunter]

This is such old news lol. I've had 40 everything since beta

[EvilNinjadude]

Their is "winning" in this game.

Sure the game never tells u "U Won"....but winning is measured by Success/Kills.


Something that Resources give you way better odds of.


The Equal theory I mentioned is to show you how it is in game power...If players are equal to each other, with equal gear...Guess what the one with the most resources can use the most tanks/planes....Which in turn effects a battles outcome.

Sorry but that is "winning" in the game....Their is absolutely 0 negatives about having more resources.

This is different then certs because you can have different sidegrade guns but you are still sacrificing something since is a sidegrade...at best Certs give u slight upgrades...and of course options that needs in game resources to use (C4,mines,etc)..Not really buying power IMO, that is true convenience.

Just because their isn't an End game doesn't mean their isn't winning in this game.


BTW If resources didn't matter than why isn't winning a continent 50% off infantry,air,vehicle resources?.....Because SOE will no that is way to OP for any Empire who has that.
I think my grasp of the English language just died a little. Please, for Christ's sake.

You know why I run out of resources? Because I have prox mines, tank mines, medkits, C4 AND both frag and concussion grenades. I haven't run out of a single one yet because I use them intelligently. I run low, yeah, sure. But have I ever properly run out? Nope.

What you probably do is
a. You take your C4 and actively look for vehicles to take out instead of only using consumables when you feel you really need to (Scarcity)
b. You've got so many damn consumable options and you spam all of them like there's no tomorrow; that's why you run out of resources.

Both ways, it's your fault. I love using tank mines now since they're more efficient than C4 and everyone loves using blockade armor nowadays.

Being F2P does not increase my options.
You're just bad at resource allocation and try to spam things like a paying player, but you can't afford to do. I could now insultingly deduce that your life consists of either relying on your parents or biting your nails until you paycheck arrives so you can spend it in a week instead of a month, but I won't do that. I'm not you.

I think the devs of this game deserve money. I haven't thrown my money at them yet, but I'm not adverse to the idea. I'll do it soon. But guess what: I won't be getting a membership, because I don't need one. UP YOURS, SUCKER!

[finder]

here is how I manage my resources...
Use air until is it gone, on every death buy infantry stuff,
then I use a MBT/lighting til my resources are gone, on every death buy infantry stuff,
play infantry, on every death buy infantry stuff, repeat.
I find focusing on one thing to fill up all the way and then stocking the next item helps. also try to conserve items if your stretched thin.

[maradine]

I think the devs of this game deserve money. I haven't thrown my money at them yet, but I'm not adverse to the idea. I'll do it soon. But guess what: I won't be getting a membership, because I don't need one. UP YOURS, SUCKER!

This was unnecessary. I expect a slightly higher horse from CDL.

[Dougnifico]

I pay lots of money... why am I not winning? Oh ya... I suck. Turns out skill is the deciding factor.

[EvilNinjadude]

This was unnecessary. I expect a slightly higher horse from CDL.I hope that was meant to be more funny than insulting. :groovy:

Unfortunately I find the OP's trolling more insulting than funny. I take other people's stupidity as a personal insult.

[Phreec]

[...] and try to spam things like a paying player, but you can't afford to do.That's kinda proving his point. :rolleyes:

[GeoGnome]

So, I used to be somewhat open to the idea of the game becoming P2W based on trends we were seeing...

And then someone showed me a blatant P2W game.

400$ gems that stack, only payable for with cash, that are required to advance into higher level dungeons. The gems provide a level 4 boost. A level 4 boost, is a 40% improvement on damage. There are 12 levels of boosts... Each level is about 100$. The boost gems can be put on items... multiple gems can be put on each item.

There was another, where you rented permanent boosts to your character power, ontop of a gem system like what is detailed above. These permanent boosts? Yeah we're talking thousands of dollars a month for rental.

After comparing what people were saying about Planetside 2, to those examples, I figured "The lesser of evils" didn't do justice. I mean, what PS2 is doing isn't in the same ball park. It's not even the same league. Hell, they are different sports all together. It's more: "Please pay to get something faster"

[Dragonskin]

I'm also going to add this... yet again to a thread about P2W.

The people, like myself, that have boosts running bought either Alpha squad or 6 month memberships. It's rare for people to buy those standalone resource boosts when membership would be a better investment and comes with more perks.. assuming you play enough to justify the cost.

I didn't buy alpha squad for resources. That thought actually never crossed my mind until these threads started popping up. I bought Alpha squad for the extra gun for each class. Some of those alpha guns have proved to be extremely useful and my preferred weapon for the class. I also got the Alpha decal as well as the Alpha camos... back then there weren't many camos and those are unique. So I have the alpha booster running. It would have ran out a long time ago, but SOE decided to make them better because the boosters were originally trash. Again... didn't buy Alpha for resources...

I ended up buying a 6 month membership once alerts rolled out and server merges because at the time I was playing mostly on Mattherson and there were constant queues. So to bypass the queues I decided to get membership. It was also nice that they made the membership exclusive sales, granted 500 SC a month and increased EXP... again resources weren't a selling point because the other features out way the resource gain value in my opinion.

So.. now I have 2 boosters running. I rarely have resource issues.. and I shouldn't.. but it irks me that these P2W cry babies are trying to piss all over people that decided to give SOE money. I honestly could care less about resource boosts. Back when I just had the alpha boost I didn't have a NEED a resource boost or feel slighted by people that had resource specific boosts.

All resources do is allow you to have more options with your gameplay. It's convenience only. I can conveniently use whatever I have unlocked almost all the time.. unless I go spam crazy or start using multiple consumables across multiple characters then I rarely ever have a resource problem... convenience. Those resources may or may not have generated kills for me. Just because you have a consumable doesn't mean it will work to your advantage. People don't always run over mines. C4 isn't always detonated before the player is killed. Revive grenades don't always revive as many people as you hoped... depending on the number of medics around it might not actually revive anyone. Then lastly just because you have more medkits doesn't mean that you will always be able to heal up to win a fire fight.... there is absolutely no Pay 2 Win advantage. You can pay for convenience or cosmetic items.. but that is literally all you get with money.

TLDR:
I wrote a book and that is my last post in this thread about it. You aren't changing my mind about the game and clearly even logic fails to change your mind.

[kubacheski]

:groovy:I love these discussions for some sadistic reason. Why do you say all F2P are struggling? The P2W mentality in PS2 is all in the definition of "winning" (insert Charlie Sheen accent). From what I can tell, people who play a lot don't really need a subscription. Think about it. If you're on all day long collecting resources and effectively managing the resources you do have, it's easy to never run out of consumables. If you get on for 30 minutes a day just to go grenade happy, you're gonna have to collect resources some other way to compensate.

Another problem is when you lack skill. If you constantly crash your vehicles or get blown up or it takes multiple grenades/C4 to kill someone/thing then you're expending more than you collect. Its only a matter of time before you're out and at a disadvantage (to both more skilled players and subscribers).

Some people pay to compensate for either not having the time, not managing the resources they collect with their time, or for their own lack of skill. Some out of courtesy to the devs, some for other perks, and others because it makes them feel that they're winning. Have you read others posts, having more camo's, guns, EXP faster, etc. makes them feel that they're "winning". Some subscribers think winning is grenading non-subscribers. If they're trying to get you to rage-quit or whine on the forums, they've just "won". Just because you have more grenades doesn't mean you'll exp faster. Just because you can pull more tanks/air/max doesn't mean you'll have more fun.

Suggestion: Change your playstyle. Find a few things you like and learn to rotate them. Enjoy getting headshots from sniping. Practice shooting while floating with your jetpack. Hack a terminal or turret while waiting for the base to switch instead of shooting at the ground. Run an AMS sundy. Practice your flying (don't some of us just suck at that? Personally, I can't get the feel of it). Don't do the same thing again and again and again and again. Try to find mulitple things that you enjoy besides running HA with lockon missile launcher and spamming grenades at infantry.

I don't have a sub and I don't play much and I suck. I'm familiar with pretty much all of the above situations - constantly running out of everything. Sometimes, when I get killed more frequently than I enjoy, I get in an aircraft just to kamikaze into the group that shot me (I said I was good at crashing aircraft). Sometimes I make it, sometimes I don't, but it's often more fun than getting grenade spammed by subscribers. I hate flying. And claymores at every doorway. And not getting the gun when I board a vehicle. And dirty Vanu.

It's a fucking game. Relax and just shoot something. Is your K/D ratio really that important to you? I just enjoy knowing there are no mobs. That every kill I make, there is someone pissed off on the other end at getting wacked by some lowbie who sucks. Although I see the kill cam more than they do, I know they look at my low BR on the occasion that I do get that long distance headshot. Kinda fun, makes me smile just writing about it. Oh and I feel like I'm "winning". :groovy:

[Dodgy Commando]

Giraffe camo is blatantly Pay2Win.

'Nuff said...

[EvilNinjadude]

That's kinda proving his point. :rolleyes:By that I mean that he feels entitled to as many mines and grenades and C4 and vehicles as he wants, and feels they are vital to gameplay, and then complains when someone who has actually paid money for the game gets more resources.

You're not meant to spam things nonstop. Even paying players can't do that.
Maybe it's just because I run around with an Annihilator and enjoy reviving people and playing as infantry... or because I'm a bad tanker. But I don't feel that vehicles are really necessary in this game if you've certed into stuff like Striker/Annihilator and AV MANA turrets. They're free, FFS. They kill stuff real good and fast.
Yet everyone "needs more" vehicles and explosives because they can't find another way to counter them.

Also, see above for a real Pay 2 Win game. Lol. If you think Planetside 2 is Pay 2 Win, you need to go play some real Pay 2 Win games. Otherwise you'll sound like heartbroken 10-year-olds having an emotional outburst on facebook about the "love of their life".

[kubacheski]

By that I mean that he feels entitled to as many mines and grenades and C4 and vehicles as he wants, and feels they are vital to gameplay, and then complains when someone who has actually paid money for the game gets more resources.

feeling entitled is the key to people who complain about P2W in games like this. The fact of the matter is that it is P2W to a certain degree regardless of wether or not there's crap like Giraffe camo or not. The fact that SOE can get money off of Giraffe camo is quite amazing but that's beside the point, isn't it.

The degree of separation between subscribers and non-subscribers only gets larger the more time is spent in the game. The F2P model is based upon the fact that someone who pays can spend less time actually in game to get what they want. Its not that they can get more, just that they can get it faster or easier. The non-paying player will have to grind a lot more to get what they want. The fact that guns and other items can be gotten via in game currencies (certs and resources) is the way this (and all other F2P games) plays out. A non-subscriber has to be in game much longer to keep up with a subscriber.

Either way SOE gets something. Cash out of the sub or consistent population out of the non-subscriber. A non-subscriber that doesn't play much is at a distinct disadvantage, but that's choice. Your real life is more important than infantry resources for your grenades. Someone else has chosen to pay for that benefit so they can have more time in real life. Some people choose their real life over either option and deal with the lack of consumables.

It's simply your choice to have other priorities over getting infantry resources. If you want more resources, earn more by playing more, or pony up some cash if your time is better spent not playing as much, or quit complaining as it's your choice to not invest in getting resources. You're going to invest time or money to get what you want. Choose which. If you choose not to invest either, then you'll get no reward for it.

Its that simple.

[EvilNinjadude]

feeling entitled is the key to people who complain about P2W in games like this. The fact of the matter is that it is P2W to a certain degree regardless of wether or not there's crap like Giraffe camo or not. The fact that SOE can get money off of Giraffe camo is quite amazing but that's beside the point, isn't it.

The degree of separation between subscribers and non-subscribers only gets larger the more time is spent in the game. The F2P model is based upon the fact that someone who pays can spend less time actually in game to get what they want. Its not that they can get more, just that they can get it faster or easier. The non-paying player will have to grind a lot more to get what they want. The fact that guns and other items can be gotten via in game currencies (certs and resources) is the way this (and all other F2P games) plays out. A non-subscriber has to be in game much longer to keep up with a subscriber.

Either way SOE gets something. Cash out of the sub or consistent population out of the non-subscriber. A non-subscriber that doesn't play much is at a distinct disadvantage, but that's choice. Your real life is more important than infantry resources for your grenades. Someone else has chosen to pay for that benefit so they can have more time in real life. Some people choose their real life over either option and deal with the lack of consumables.

It's simply your choice to have other priorities over getting infantry resources. If you want more resources, earn more by playing more, or pony up some cash if your time is better spent not playing as much, or quit complaining as it's your choice to not invest in getting resources. You're going to invest time or money to get what you want. Choose which. If you choose not to invest either, then you'll get no reward for it.

Its that simple.I'll give a standing ovation for you. Anyone willing to join me?


Time is money. You either spend more time -- You're welcome to do that for all I care -- or you spend more money -- which SOE will thank you for, and by extension, me. Because I want SOE to get rewarded for making a game I enjoy that I haven't even paid anything for yet. People like OP come along with the attitude that they deserve just as much as a person who has actually paid, just because the game has the F2P business model. If he even remotely feels like paying money would enhance his experience, he immediately gets his panties in a twist.

Here's a scale of all business models in order of pay2winness.
- Extreme Pay2Win -- Real money buys you more direct power upgrades, gives you access to things F2P players could never get, and bashes F2Pers with lower quality of life which they can resolve by PAYING MONEY. I'm looking at you, WarZ.
- Pay2Win -- Real money buys you straight power upgrades and gives you access to things such as better guns, better quality of life, or just simple power and a better gaming experience.
- Free to play but you're not going to enjoy it -- Quality of life is directly tied to the amount of money you spend. That, or the game is focused on winning engagements exclusively and real money gives players more power. A minor case of this is if paying players only get small quality of life improvements.
- Free to play, pay to get things faster -- Hey look, this is where Planetside 2 is at now!
- Cosmetic-only Free to Play -- Something that only games with large userbases like LoL and TF2 can achieve: I know firsthand that in TF2, hats aren't as immersion-breaking as they would be in PS2 since TF2 is silly enough by itself (just look at the damn Demoman!) So Valve can sell hats and needs to sell nothing else, and enough people will buy hats.

Look how far down Planetside 2 is. Look at the reason it can't go lower: Not enough people playing, not enough of those willing to pay money for the STILL ONGOING DEVELOPMENT, and the difficulty of getting all cosmetics to mesh well with the game (some say it's already failing).

I personally am happy with where the game is at now. So should you be, unless you're either paying money and are still unsatisfied (thanks, and sorry) or are a complete nobhead (GTFO).

[kubacheski]

I'll give a standing ovation for you. Anyone willing to join me?


Thanks man. I've always seen F2P as just that free to PLAY, not play at the same quality as someone who does microtransactions, not play at the same level as someone who subscribes. You get to play and that's that. You want to play on equal terms with all others, then you gotta play a subscription only game. And guess what, sub-only model doesn't bring in the cash that multi-level subscriptions with microtransaction F2P models do. Why do you think virtually every AAA gaming company is going the F2P with subs and microtrans direction on their persistent worlds? To be nice to the players? Get real man. It brings in more cash. Subscribers are always gonna sub and they glean cash off of the people who do microtrans cause they don't want to pump out the full sub price for whatever reason.

F2P players only boost the populations so that the paying customers have more warm bodies to slay.

You want F2P, get back into ANSI mudding. I know a few good ones if you need a recommendation......Actually Brad McQuaid is back at SOE working on EQ:Next. I bet he could give you a rec too, seeing as how his idea for EQ came from an ancestor of one of the MUDs I'm speaking of.

Damn I'm old.

[EvilNinjadude]

1. Thanks man. I've always seen F2P as just that free to PLAY, not play at the same quality as someone who does microtransactions, not play at the same level as someone who subscribes.

2. F2P players only boost the populations so that the paying customers have more warm bodies to slay.
1. Yep, and it's up to the Publisher to decide how nice they're going to be to the non-paying community - how much they're gonna separate content for F2P and paying. And guess what, SOE's pretty frickin' nice about it, and people like OP are not appreciating it.:confused:

2. Yes. Higher overall population makes the game more fun for everyone, seeing as scale is one of the most important parts of this game. If people take their subs somewhere else, then it will snowball quickly. But if it's F2P? The only resource people will be sacrificing is their time, and if they're still having a moderately good time, they can just keep playing.
For examples of low effing population, see the PTS.

[Maarvy]

What a bunch of rampant fanboys

So what if another game is more or less pay to win than ps2 , the OP has a point .

8 pages of douchbaggery defending what's slapping every non paying member in the face .

The psu community is the kind that literaly dosent give 2 shits about ps2's new player experience or what a free player dosent have , so long as they do have .

Sure we can make a few tutorial videos ... invite a nube or 2 to our outfit . But hell dare to question why we paying members get it so easy compared to free players ... yeah fuck you buddy go die in a fire !

[EvilNinjadude]

8 pages of douchbaggery defending what's slapping every non paying member in the face .

The psu community is the kind that literaly dosent give 2 shits about ps2's new player experience or what a free player dosent have , so long as they do have .

Sure we can make a few tutorial videos ... invite a nube or 2 to our outfit . But hell dare to question why we paying members get it so easy compared to free players ... yeah fuck you buddy go die in a fire !
Evidently both the impact resources have on the game AND the difference in the gain rate between paying and non-paying players is Debatable.

Meanwhile, I just want the resource revamp to get put onto the PTS.

[SadlyJack]

If you like to drive a tank you are clearly not welcome at the Higby household.

[blashyrk]

What a bunch of rampant fanboys

So what if another game is more or less pay to win than ps2 , the OP has a point .

8 pages of douchbaggery defending what's slapping every non paying member in the face .

The psu community is the kind that literaly dosent give 2 shits about ps2's new player experience or what a free player dosent have , so long as they do have .

Sure we can make a few tutorial videos ... invite a nube or 2 to our outfit . But hell dare to question why we paying members get it so easy compared to free players ... yeah fuck you buddy go die in a fire !

I do believe that paying members have more of an advantage now than a couple of months ago (before the resource prices increased) but does it matter to a BR1?

I started on Miller (my first and so far only character) which is considered by many the harshest environment for a new player. I never played Planetside 1. I never payed for anything in the game, I am the F2P "scapegoat" as many here seem to call us non-paying users.

Now I have overall KDR > 1.5 and > 3 in the last month or so (not that I find that important anyway), lately I average about 1.7 certs per minute without any boost and most importantly, I find the game immensely fun.

In the beginning I was also frustrated about dying all the time and being terribly inefficient. I ranted about the game being pay to win, I mean that guy just killed me with 1 shot from a pump action shotgun!
1000 certs later I got a pump action shotgun myself and guess what, I found out firsthand that the starting carbines/LMGs etc are all generally more universal and extremely less situational than my shiny PA shotgun.

My point being, this game is huge, it's skill based and it takes time to acquire the skill needed to be efficient at it. No amount of money will circumvent that.

And while it's certainly more convenient to be able to spam ESFs and vehicles, being a F2P member also increased my skill as a pilot/tanker because I have to be efficient and do whatever I can to prolong the lifetime of my vehicle.

Also, for me it was way more interesting to earn certs for getting a certain weapon/upgrade that it would have ever been if I'd simply payed for them.

If you like to drive a tank you are clearly not welcome at the Higby household.

If, under normal circumstances, your tank doesn't survive for at least 20 minutes, you're doing something wrong. I'm talking about a MBT with a driver and gunner here, not so much for the Lightning but still.

[EvilNinjadude]

If, under normal circumstances, your tank doesn't survive for at least 20 minutes, you're doing something wrong.And if it doesn't last for 20 minutes, and you're not doing anything wrong, the abnormal circumstances usually involve being countered by the enemy with superior numbers and positioning, meaning that you can take out only a small fraction of them before you die UNLESS you coordinate properly to take out the enemy armor/air force.

If you ever played SC2 you'll know how it works. If you send 10 marines against two marines, all ten marines will survive. The larger force hsa won this engagement so decisively that it does not NEED to make more marines, just heal them up again and keep going.
If your tank dies too fast because you're outnumbered or outplayed, it doesn't matter how long it takes until you can pull a new tank... because you didn't kill enough enemy tanks, they'll be less resource dependent then you. (Because if there's 10 targets, what's the chance that it'll be you each time?)

And paying money didn't have anything to do with this situation.

[blashyrk]

Nicely said!

[kubacheski]

What a bunch of rampant fanboys

So what if another game is more or less pay to win than ps2 , the OP has a point .

8 pages of douchbaggery defending what's slapping every non paying member in the face .

The psu community is the kind that literaly dosent give 2 shits about ps2's new player experience or what a free player dosent have , so long as they do have .

Sure we can make a few tutorial videos ... invite a nube or 2 to our outfit . But hell dare to question why we paying members get it so easy compared to free players ... yeah fuck you buddy go die in a fire !

You're damn right the OP has a point. That this game is P2W. Noone debates that. Whats debatable is wether or not it's a big enough difference to complain about. What's slapping every non-player in the face is the way SOE has promised a F2P game with the inability to buy upgraded, just sidegraded eq and a bunch of cosmetic crud, but fully implemented P2W with all of the boosts and their handling of resources and certs.

The PSU community is divided into 2 groups at the moment: one group being those that bought into SOE's bullcrap about making PS2 a much better game than PS1 and didn't come close to delivering, so we're a lil bitter, and the second being those that drank the Koolaid and decided that PS1 is dead so they have to get used to and love this large scale with beautiful graphics areana shooter. That's the tipping point when PSU didn't care about new players, when they decided PS2 was a "good enough" game, because SOE wasn't doing anything more with PS1.

Noone is quite defending the disparity between paying and non-paying members, more like pointing out that that's how F2P works, its a misnomer across the industry and SOE said they'd not make it so glaring a difference so you couldn't pay to win, just get things faster. Well it didn't quite happen like that and it never does. They gonna make money.

The douchebaggery come in that there are 100 threads about P2W in this and other forums concerning PS2, and we still are complaining about P2W. Things started out with no distinct advantage, then as more weapons came in, people started subbing as you get things faster, SOE sees this and creates more abilities/consumables, so more people sub, SOE then revamps the resource system and everything is free, it ruins the balance as it spams the battlefield with tanks and air with little room for infantry, SOE sees this and revamps resources again, much more infantry fighting as vehicles cost more and players see this and begin subscribing. SOE sees this as more money in their pocket so why would they change it? because F2P players are quitting? so what they're not investing in the game. Notice pops have gone down quite a bit since the first iteration of rebalancing the new weapons? Thats when the disparity between pay and free happened. Maybe a mass exodus to games where there's a more even playing field? Yea it will get sorted out, Higby describes it as a pendulum swinging too far one way (on purpose) and then swinging it too far the other way (again on purpose) to get a better feel for where it should be in the middle. But don't you think that should have been done before release?

Again noone questions why paying members get it so easy. SOE makes it that way to entice people to subscribe so they can reinvest that money in making more content to entice people to subscribe. It's the subscription model, it's not a "free" game, its "free to play". Go read wikipedia's description of a F2P game. You can get all content through play or you can get all content through subscription/microtransactions. You get to choose which route you take. Play takes a long time, Pay doesn't.

And i'm no fan of PS2. It sucks compared to what SOE hyped it up to be. It sucks compared to PS1.
1/4 of the world to play on,
class limitations on weaponry (not cert limited),
minimal hacking environment for infils,
arena style bases,
no friggin doors,
no planetary interconnection (only 3 instanced battlefields),
P2W (had to throw that in, I hate it's there, but it's not going away),
TTK is too short (promotes zerg in every fight, and inflates XP gain rates),
No metagame,
No hacking vehicles,
No Combat Engineering (spitfires, etc),
no inventory,
no looting dead opponents,
etc, etc.
The game is no PS1. Yea, SOE says oh, more content to come, well they're still in an extened alpha as far as I'm concerned. I mean they're not even certain about how resources are going to work and they've got issues now with how NDZ are affecting the game. Balance is one thing, tweaking fire/damage rates is one thing, but revamping the underlying mechanics is another (lattice, resources, etc) and it reaks of poor direction. Funny how all of the bigger gameplay issues are being solved by PS1 mechanics. But PS2 could just be a testbed for ForgeLight in preparation for EQ:Next, another F2P game by SOE. So look for mirotransactions and subscriptions on that one too if you intend to play it. The same rules apply.


Why does every infiltrator tutorial say to upgrade from base TR/VS semi-auto sniper rifle to the Bolt Action? Because it's better, but it costs money/certs. If SOE wanted an even playing field, you would all need 1 gun per class (or per firing distance) and that's all. You could only buy camos. But what a boring game that would be.

The point is: Dont' have any illusions. You pay one way or another. Some ways just benefit you more than others.

[Kerrec]

I personally don't buy into the premise of this thread. Here's my point of view.

When I started this game in December, I was a lone wolf. I played 75% LA and the rest Engineer. I unlocked C4, AV Mines pretty early on and loved going after tanks and sunderers. I burned thru those like candy, but back in those days it wasn't an issue, the resources were endless.

Then I joined an outfit and shifted to playing Medic mostly. My medic has 2X C4, and I use against vehicles or to kill NC maxes that chase me. Being a support class in a squad, I don't burn thru a whole lot C4 (or AV Mines on my engineer) because the squad(s) will take out vehicles or enemy maxes with their "free" weapons, ie: Rocket Launchers, AV Max, Engineer AV turrets, etc...

Before as a lone wolf, I used to get alot of vehicle kills, because I either got the kill or died trying. Now I get some kills and lots of assists because my squad shares in the task of taking vehicles down. And we do it with "free" weapons the majority of the time.

Lately I've taken to start playing VS (I'm on Waterson, and they are underpopulated, so if I'm going to solo, I do my part to even the teams). I don't want to join an outfit with my VS, so I join pugs. Right off the bat all of my stats were just plain better than my TR because I don't do the support role thing while VS. So I started these new characters and if score per minute and/or K/D means anything, I was performing BETTER. BETTER, without having AV mines, C4, non-standard grenades, medkits, etc... My infantry resources were maxed out because I had nothing I needed to buy once my grenade stock was full. This still applies post resource cost change. I just don't have an issue with resources even when I compare the vast diferences between a character with lots of resource upkeep or no resource upkeep.

So no. I call bullshit.

1) An organized squad/platoon/Outfit will reduce the demand on resources to the point it is a non-issue if you remember to stock up once you reach 750.

2) Comparing performance between a well certed character and a fairly new character (same player behind the wheel) that hasn't unlocked things requiring heavy resource use, doesn't show a huge advantage that would imply a "Pay To Win" game.

[Climhazzard]

My infantry resources were maxed out because I had nothing I needed to buy once my grenade stock was full. This still applies post resource cost change.

Not to defend the OP's point (because I do disagree with it), but it's no surprise you haven't noticed an effect; nothing you've mentioned using in your post has had its resource cost increased.

[Kerrec]

Not to defend the OP's point (because I do disagree with it), but it's no surprise you haven't noticed an effect; nothing you've mentioned using in your post has had its resource cost increased.

See the OP's post, I quote below:

That guy has multiple infantry things maxed at 40.....no wonder he can just run around instakilling people with mines.

Their is absolutely zero risk if you have resource boost...Is Pay 2 win.


Meanwhile a free 2 play player like me has around 2-5 med kits or 2 -5 grenades.....

I loved this game but lately with the resources change, I had like no resources at all for infantry..


Sorry SOE, at one time the game's hidden P2W wasn't that obvious...

Now the game has Obvious Pay 2 Win.

That's the OP's post, with bits cut out. He's complaining about resource boosts giving people more grenades, mines, C4, etc... than someone without a resource boost.

So, my previous post makes perfect sense as a response to his "claim". I made new characters recently that didn't have the certs to unlock all that resource intensive ordinance. I did not notice any degradation in my performance for not having that.

Hence, being a member, or just buying a boost is not going to guarantee someone better combat performance. That premise is flawed.

[AThreatToYou]

I would like to add a voice to the fact that the entire concept of Free-to-Play games revolves around the theory that "players are content". The more players a game has, the more people will want to play it, and more people will be willing to pay for it.

Likewise, players who don't pay are economically there just to encourage others to play and pay for some kind of advantage or convenience.

[maradine]

This concept extends far beyond gaming. Generally speaking, if you're not paying for the service, you're the product.

[AThreatToYou]

This concept extends far beyond gaming. Generally speaking, if you're not paying for the service, you're the product.

That's new, and informative. Thanks.

[EvilNinjadude]

Not to defend the OP's point (because I do disagree with it), but it's no surprise you haven't noticed an effect; nothing you've mentioned using in your post has had its resource cost increased.You're right, haha, I kept trying to make a point on vehicles, but it seems in the OP, the dude was complaining more about infantry resources than vehicle resources... Well, now we've disproven both of them (I agree with both of Kerrec's points), so there.

Well one last thing: New players will have more trouble with vehicle resources as their stock tanks keep getting blown up. However, this is because they haven't had a chance to cert into them yet. Dump enough certs into Harassers, and you can farm all day. Dump certs into MBT Armor and engineer repair tool, and you can become part of a decent armor column. Remember that you have access to all of this whether you pay real money or not.

[Dragonskin]

PCGAMER: How do you strike a balance in free-to-play between giving people enough to enjoy the game, and actually selling enough content to be profitable?

John Smedley: I’ll give you a good statistic: roughly 10% of the people on Planetside 2 actually spend money. It’s very interesting to watch that balance. We designed the game from the start almost completely ignoring the F2P business model – we just wanted it to be fun. And the way we see it is that the 90% of players who don’t pay are making the game fun for the 10% that do. So we look at the world in terms of how many people are playing the game, and not in terms of how many are paying. The players are content for one another, so the free players are just as important as the ones who are paying. You do have to design the game to ensure there’s enough stuff to monetise – and we’ve done that – but you also need to make sure it isn’t ‘pay to win’. And we’ve done that too; I think we’ve found the right balance.

Source: PC Gamer interview - December 14th, 2012
http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/12/14/soe-president-john-smedley-on-planetside-2s-future-free-to-play-and-everquest-next/

Accurate statement by John Smedley. It's been no secret that SOE wants to make money on this game and they also haven't made PS2 a true "pay to win" free to play game.

[maradine]

That's new, and informative. Thanks.

Not sure where the sarcasm's coming from, considering I was agreeing with you to emphasize the point.

[kubacheski]

Source: PC Gamer interview - December 14th, 2012
http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/12/14/soe-president-john-smedley-on-planetside-2s-future-free-to-play-and-everquest-next/

Accurate statement by John Smedley. It's been no secret that SOE wants to make money on this game and they also haven't made PS2 a true "pay to win" free to play game.

Just for clarification, what's your definition of a "true" P2W game?

Is it a freemium model where subscribers get more content than non-subs?
Or is it simply the degree of P2W in any particular game with hybrid subscription/microtransactions?

Better guns doesn't translate into "win" necessarially. But better guns for any individual is better "win" scenario to them. Think of a long sustained battle of 2 groups one all subs, one all non-subs. With the rate at which the subs can pull tanks/air/consumables vs the non-sub, who would win the seige provided they're all the same skill level of players?

It is P2W, the question is: Is the degree of P2W enough to drive off free players. That's what we're arguing in this (and too many other) threads. The scenarios keep changing also as SOE is still releasing content and peoples opinions change to reflect the new content. i.e. Would this thread have been started before the resource change and both sub and non-sub players could spam grenades like they were used to?

I think not, it took the change to get someone to start this argument anew.

[EvilNinjadude]

Just for clarification, what's your definition of a "true" P2W game?

Is it a freemium model where subscribers get more content than non-subs?
Or is it simply the degree of P2W in any particular game with hybrid subscription/microtransactions?

Better guns doesn't translate into "win" necessarially. But better guns for any individual is better "win" scenario to them. Think of a long sustained battle of 2 groups one all subs, one all non-subs. With the rate at which the subs can pull tanks/air/consumables vs the non-sub, who would win the seige provided they're all the same skill level of players?

It is P2W, the question is: Is the degree of P2W enough to drive off free players. That's what we're arguing in this (and too many other) threads. The scenarios keep changing also as SOE is still releasing content and peoples opinions change to reflect the new content. i.e. Would this thread have been started before the resource change and both sub and non-sub players could spam grenades like they were used to?

I think not, it took the change to get someone to start this argument anew.
Aha. So your definition of Pay to Win is any business model that gives subscribers an advantage? I'm not being condescending or anything. It's just that we've apparently been talking past each other.

I see the F2P model as a sliding scale with the upper (more discriminating) models being classified as P2W, using it as a general term. However you're defining P2W as any F2P model that isn't based purely on cosmetics.
(Is access to more sidegrades to choose from a benefit? I don't even know)

[Dragonskin]

Just for clarification, what's your definition of a "true" P2W game?

Is it a freemium model where subscribers get more content than non-subs?
Or is it simply the degree of P2W in any particular game with hybrid subscription/microtransactions?

Better guns doesn't translate into "win" necessarially. But better guns for any individual is better "win" scenario to them. Think of a long sustained battle of 2 groups one all subs, one all non-subs. With the rate at which the subs can pull tanks/air/consumables vs the non-sub, who would win the seige provided they're all the same skill level of players?

It is P2W, the question is: Is the degree of P2W enough to drive off free players. That's what we're arguing in this (and too many other) threads. The scenarios keep changing also as SOE is still releasing content and peoples opinions change to reflect the new content. i.e. Would this thread have been started before the resource change and both sub and non-sub players could spam grenades like they were used to?

I think not, it took the change to get someone to start this argument anew.

I'm sure my position on this topic is abundantly clear if you look at my previous posts in this thread as well as other Pay to Win threads I have been involved in.

Pay to Win is an easy definition, but people have been twisting it here to try to fit the phrase to fit their argument. The definition is that a paying player gets access to things that a free player cannot ever get. These items are usually extremely powerful that give a significiant advantage to the paying player. There has to be a reason to buy the items or a player wouldn't feel the need to buy them. An example is that in SWTOR you get the best gear from end game dungeons or end game PvP arenas. The only way to get that gear is to pay to access those areas of the game. So a paying player will have a significant advantage in both PvE content and PvP content that a free player could never get.

Another example is the Battlefield Free to play game. All the weapons that cost money are better than the free ones. In that game you pay just to rent your power bonus.. you can't even keep them unless you buy the much more expensive ones.

Planetside 2 doesn't do that. Everything that a paying player can get a free player can get. The ONLY exceptions are cosmetic items or convenience items like the character slots and load out slots.

All the weapons in the game are available to free to play players. If you actually spend the time comparing the weapons that you get free then you will find out that most of them are actually extremely balanced. Most of the guns in the game are in fact side grades. Even if they are true upgrades then a free player can unlock them with certs gained by playing in game. Here is the important part. Free players don't rent guns. Once they unlock a gun or ability it is theirs for that character forever. You can trail a gun for free and it will expire and be removed from your inventory, but you can premenantly unlock weapons and abilities as a free player just like all paying players.

Resources bonuses are a convenience feature. They allow paying customers to have more options and less restrictions on what vehicles and consumables they can pull. Those vehicles and consumables are still offered to all free players too. Consumables like medkits, mines and grenades are helpful.. but they don't guarantee you will kill anything. Free players are just as deadly as paying players.

Paying players do not get a significant power advantage. If paying doesn't grant you a significant power advantage over free players then it's not a pay to win game. Period.

It is of course a Pay for Convenience game. SOE wants to make money. People like convenience. People like to be able to get things faster. It doesn't make them unstoppable... they can just get the opportunity to get an item faster. There is nothing preventing a free player from killing a paying player or "Winning" over a paying player.

I know I said I wouldn't post in this thread anymore, but I am bored at work.. so I got baited back in.

[EvilNinjadude]

I know I said I wouldn't post in this thread anymore, but I am bored at work.. so I got baited back in.
Don't feel bad for it, I know that feel bro. I tell myself to stop caring about a discussion that doesn't directly concern me until I get involved... but almost all the time I just can't stop myself, and once I've started, I can't just leave, either.

It's good when I want to show dedication to a project. It's bad when I really shouldn't have gone there. :lol:

[kubacheski]

Don't feel bad for it, I know that feel bro. I tell myself to stop caring about a discussion that doesn't directly concern me until I get involved... but almost all the time I just can't stop myself, and once I've started, I can't just leave, either.

It's good when I want to show dedication to a project. It's bad when I really shouldn't have gone there. :lol:

I hear that.

So I get the impression we're all 3 saying pretty much the same thing, just using the labels slightly differently. I see freemium as the model that grants access to subs that non-subs can't get, which has definitive and obvious P2W attributes. And the definition of P2W is subjective (in the eye of the beholder) within the F2P games dependent and more readily obvious depending on the degree to which it is implemented.

Dragonskin, the pay for convenience is a much better definition of how I see PS2 as well.

Personally I got no problem with the financial model that SOE is using here. It's not a large difference and I can't complain, I've got very little time invested.

Another way of looking at this is that it's like coming into the game late. I mean would you say there's a bigger difference between
a BR50 subscriber and a BR50 non-sub
or between
a BR50 non-sub and BR10 subscriber?

You subscribe for the opportunity to get bigger faster, it doesn't always purchase being "better". Or how much fun it is. I have a blast and haven't spent a dime.

[Calista]

This thread confuses me. Every time I read it I think I am on the official forums :lol:

[Osskscosco]

This thread is a joke and should be moved to Whineside 2 forum.

[KesTro]

Eh, if you want to take my place and shed out the $500 into the game be my guest, otherwise I'm happy to reap the rewards. Free 2 play games have always survived on 'whales'.

[Bulltahr]

Eh, if you want to take my place and shed out the $500 into the game be my guest, otherwise I'm happy to reap the rewards. Free 2 play games have always survived on 'whales'.
Yeah man, those that put in the money provide the F2P game for the rest.
And I hope SOE is making heaps of $$ so we can keep playing this amazing game!!!:):):):)

[mrmrmrj]

As someone who is a subscriber and with his Alpha bonus still active, I want to address the OP. I do run out of infantry resources from mines quite quickly when defending the obvious next base in the lattice. The pattern is usually like this:

1) mine the obvious road with 4 vehicles mines. Kill one or two initial vehicles.
2) remine the road. Kill another one or two.
3) betty one of the control points. Usually just one kill from this.
4) charge a crowded control point and drop a few betties. Usually get 2-3 kills.

So that is usually about 10-15 minutes of play resulting in 5-9 kills before I completely drain my infantry resources. The cost of this is I cannot MAX for a good hour or so. I don't think that is unbalanced. I wait for my existing mines to be "discovered" before laying new ones for the most part. I am not just spamming mines everywhere. If I did, I would run out of resources a lot faster.

I have probably spent $300 on SC but none of it helps my resource gain. I don't buy boosts because 1) they are overpriced and 2) I would hate to buy one and then have to log off for some unexpected reason.

[Badjuju]

Its like arguing with little child here.

"PAY 2 WIN"

"So he has a bigger stocckpile of mines......I can still shoot him......does not require me to particularly more skilled....just not walk into a frigin mine.....its not Pay 2 Win. Pay 4 Convenicanse at most. Besides a Free player can do pretty much the same thing by just conserving resources and stocking up on what he needs when he needs it. And its not like he can deploy all those 14 mines at the same time."


"No! He has infinite mines PAY 2 WIN! Im right ur wrong!"





Pay 2 win means a SIGNIFICANT DIRECT ADVANTAGE IN DIRECT COMBAT where players of comparable skill will almost always loose. Having more mines in your puch hardly qualifies.


Heck i have no bossts or a subscription and even I sometimes do what that guy did.

But fine repeat your mantra untill you get bored. We have to deal with one guy like that every week or so it seems.
This

[Emperor Newt]

I don't think that Infantry ressources matter all that much. For vehicles ressources on the other hand... I think they overdid it with the ressource cost increase. The difference in the amount of vehicles the members in our outfit can pull (compared to the f2p players) is quiet noticeable. But p2w? No. But it needs some more balancing /imho

Free 2 play games have always survived on 'whales'.
Relying on whales is no sustainable business model though. All those social games and some of the mmos that closed in the last past years were designed around whales. If you want to have a running service you cannot rely on them because they "die out". They are mostly recruited out of the first days playerbase.
What you need is a good conversion rate with lower spendings, not a pisspoor conversion rate with high spendings. Of course a high conversion rate with high spendings would be best, but whoever finds that formular will be richer then Scrooge McDuck. But getting a good conversion rates and by that a sustainable community means catering to the fp2 users. Just like games like LoL, Dota2 or WoT do.

[Dragonskin]

I don't think that Infantry ressources matter all that much. For vehicles ressources on the other hand... I think they overdid it with the ressource cost increase. The difference in the amount of vehicles the members in our outfit can pull (compared to the f2p players) is quiet noticeable. But p2w? No. But it needs some more balancing /imho


Relying on whales is no sustainable business model though. All those social games and some of the mmos that closed in the last past years were designed around whales. If you want to have a running service you cannot rely on them because they "die out". They are mostly recruited out of the first days playerbase.
What you need is a good conversion rate with lower spendings, not a pisspoor conversion rate with high spendings. Of course a high conversion rate with high spendings would be best, but whoever finds that formular will be richer then Scrooge McDuck. But getting a good conversion rates and by that a sustainable community means catering to the fp2 users. Just like games like LoL, Dota2 or WoT do.

This is true. I don't think most Free players in Planetside 2 feel the same as the OP. I know quite a few free players that have played free since release and still play free. They might have bought some cosmetics here and there, but they don't pay for boosts or a membership.

Of course they are in outfits and outfits are pretty key for free players. Any free players reading this... find a big outfit that does combined operations and you won't have as big of an issue with personal resources. Outfits all tend ask who wants to pull air, vehicles or maxes so that free players don't feel obiligated to use resources they don't want to. More often than not it's the paying players like myself that freely pull what our outfit needs because we know we can get the resources back quickly. Vehicles tend to run in 2 person teams so that both players pool their resources to keep a vehicle out on the field. ESF and Lighting users are more on their own.. since those are 1 person vehicles.

Cosmetics seem to be a large seller in Planetside 2. The first thing my son wanted when I gave him some SC to use was camo because he sees tons of people running around looking cool. So he spent some on camo and then unlocked a few NS weapons and composite helmets because he wanted the "cool helmets that don't show the face". Since it was Independence Day weekend he had to get the NS flare gun haha. Yes.. he is one of those players that still spams his flare gun. Especially during base captures.

Most of the prices are reasonable in my opinion. If you want to see a new current Free to play game look at Marvel Heroes... they just permenantly reduced some of their characters, but most of the popular (and most powerful) characters were in the $16 - $20 range... just for 1 character that only allows 1 play style. Then look at how much customes cost.. upwards of $20 per costume... something that is just a new skin of the same character? Planetside 2 is much more reasonable. PS2 even has daily non-membership sales that are 50% off and still has tons of bundles that are 60% off.

[Crator]

Of course they are in outfits and outfits are pretty key for free players. Any free players reading this... find a big outfit that does combined operations and you won't have as big of an issue with personal resources. Outfits all tend ask who wants to pull air, vehicles or maxes so that free players don't feel obiligated to use resources they don't want to. More often than not it's the paying players like myself that freely pull what our outfit needs because we know we can get the resources back quickly. Vehicles tend to run in 2 person teams so that both players pool their resources to keep a vehicle out on the field. ESF and Lighting users are more on their own.. since those are 1 person vehicles.

To add to this, you can get away with not using too many resources to travel by simply using the 'Redeployment' and 'Instant Action' options on the map. I use them a lot, even when I'm in a squad or have a bunch of resources to use. Squad Beacon is good to use as well if in a squad. If you use all the options available to you to get around then you shouldn't have many problems with resources when you do want to pull something to get somewhere you need to be. Use the Flash the most if you have to get somewhere quickly.

[EvilNinjadude]

To add to this, you can get away with not using too many resources to travel by simply using the 'Redeployment' and 'Instant Action' options on the map. I use them a lot, even when I'm in a squad or have a bunch of resources to use. Squad Beacon is good to use as well if in a squad. If you use all the options available to you to get around then you shouldn't have many problems with resources when you do want to pull something to get somewhere you need to be. Use the Flash the most if you have to get somewhere quickly.Hah, you forgot the most powerful of all, the squad deploy. Deploy on precise position of squad leader in ten seconds or less, cooldown of five minutes. OP as of current date as it allows one person in an ESF to drop 44 people onto a base of their choice in less than half a minute.


That said, I find myself maxed out on vehicle resources often. Why? I mostly pull flashes or hitch a ride in friendly vehicles, as well as redeploying very often. Flashes are not as insignificantly cheap as they used to be, but still very much so.

[Dreamcast]

See the OP's post, I quote below:



That's the OP's post, with bits cut out. He's complaining about resource boosts giving people more grenades, mines, C4, etc... than someone without a resource boost.

So, my previous post makes perfect sense as a response to his "claim". I made new characters recently that didn't have the certs to unlock all that resource intensive ordinance. I did not notice any degradation in my performance for not having that.

Hence, being a member, or just buying a boost is not going to guarantee someone better combat performance. That premise is flawed.

OF course is not a guarantee...but had a more resources gives you more power/possibilites...It is a benift, no way to deny it.

Again, you do know that the whole game right now is fighting over resources, right?

You get 10% discount if you capture a continent....to a Paying member, this doesn't matter because he always has resources.

Also if Resources didn't matter like you claim...Then why isn't 90% off Resources when you win a continent?


Could it be that it will be overpowered as fuck to have an Empire with 90% off resources?...Of course, the Devs already thought about this, thats why is 10% off resources.


Resources Matter!

By that I mean that he feels entitled to as many mines and grenades and C4 and vehicles as he wants, and feels they are vital to gameplay, and then complains when someone who has actually paid money for the game gets more resources.

You're not meant to spam things nonstop. Even paying players can't do that.
Maybe it's just because I run around with an Annihilator and enjoy reviving people and playing as infantry... or because I'm a bad tanker. But I don't feel that vehicles are really necessary in this game if you've certed into stuff like Striker/Annihilator and AV MANA turrets. They're free, FFS. They kill stuff real good and fast.
Yet everyone "needs more" vehicles and explosives because they can't find another way to counter them.

Also, see above for a real Pay 2 Win game. Lol. If you think Planetside 2 is Pay 2 Win, you need to go play some real Pay 2 Win games. Otherwise you'll sound like heartbroken 10-year-olds having an emotional outburst on facebook about the "love of their life".

When did I say All players should spam everything forever?.....Im saying the Opposite.

Paying members get very damn close to have infinity spamming ability...I am against that.

I play infantry all the time and rarely use explosives, even when I had excess resources because of XP boost.

Like I said the Pay 2 Win in this game is hidden...You don't feel it in 1 vs 1 situations.

But is there hidden with some players have a way bigger stockpile of vehicles/aircraft/consumables.....That is power.

[Chaff]

.
GladUmad,

You have an outstanding BR, and a very good K/D. Stat-wise, you seem to be doing quite well in this game. Why are you so bent ?

However they do it, SOE does have to find a way to continually generate money from PS2. If they don't, it will die - just like PS1.

I'm fine if they change the rseource accumulation system to make it more fair. You have an important point your're making. I think you could deliver it better. I do think you doth potest too much - especially when YOUR stats indicate you are doing very very well. It surprises me that as good as you're doing that you seem so bent over "theoretical & Peceived" advantages others (paying customers) have. How big of an "advantage" do they have if you're powning far more than you're being powned ? Stat-wise, you're doing better than most PS2 players.

Again, SOE needs to generate money. The devs, Smed, T-Ray, Higby,.... THEY DON"T COME FREE. A huge team is needed to keep the game running - much less improving it as any pace whatsoever.

If you truly are a F2P player, careful not to bite the hand that feeds (FREEly) feeds you. You are getting FAR MORE than you pay for. The World doesn't "owe" anyone squat.
.

[maradine]

Vile necromancy.

[EVILPIG]

Shame on you for bringing this back.

[DynamoECT]

I see the massive gap in time between posts hasn't led to a coherent argument yet. You have your opinion, lots of us disagree with it, can we let it die now?

[Ghoest9]

1 the Op is a liser for doing necro.

2 the Op is clueless.
I recently got my aux mdal for land mines and then swiched over to going pure SMG.

You get more kills over time and stay alive longer using the SMG only.


Living on AP mines as a primary is the opposite of play to win.

[Redshift]

Well it's not really P2W but i agree the whole resource thing is fubar right now,

unfortunately there is no option but to wait until the resource rehash

[EvilNinjadude]

Well it's not really P2W but i agree the whole resource thing is fubar right now,

unfortunately there is no option but to wait until the resource rehashIndeed. So I come back from the holiday to find this thread revived. Why people why. They said they'd change it, (after the optimization which we ALL know EVERYONE wants) so why are we not letting this thing die

RIP thread

[Falcon_br]

I just want to inform you guys that my alpha squad booster is expired.
Is like losing a family member, it will be forever remembered!
It is just really, really strange to play this game with a maximum level prowler acquisition timer reduced and don´t have resources to get one each 5 minutes! I want my 2.500 certs back!
Also, I didn´t got auraxis in c4 when I could, now for the first time I must think before spamming it! It is bad, real bad! Before I could just grab light assault, fly to the top of a building of a bio lab, thrown 2 c4, explode, resupply, do that again for hours!
And I still have my membership bonus!
I think the game must be unplayable with the standard resource rates! Because with 50% it is almost impossible to play it the way I am used to play! Now I can no longer get free libs to my pals because I had infinite prowlers to use!

[KesTro]

If you think this is pay 2 win you haven't played very many MMO's AT ALL. This game is FAAAAAAAAAAAR from pay2win. If anything it's pay2benefit. Which it has all the right in the world to be. SOE is first and foremost a business and there needs to be a great enough incentive for people to keep their subscription.

Would you rather them get weapons exclusive to members? I thought not.

[kubacheski]

If you think this is pay 2 win you haven't played very many MMO's AT ALL. This game is FAAAAAAAAAAAR from pay2win. If anything it's pay2benefit. Which it has all the right in the world to be. SOE is first and foremost a business and there needs to be a great enough incentive for people to keep their subscription.

Would you rather them get weapons exclusive to members? I thought not.

True statements there. Its not like a BR1 can pony up some cash and be as effective as a BR100. You don't pay to "be better than" other people, you pay to be faster to get a few things and faster to replenish and etc. etc. Everything that a paying customer can purchase, a freebie can grind to get. yea it takes longer, thats the model, but you can get it. There is no Pay only content. let alone any Pay only content that is overpowered to stuff the non-payer can get.