As a Mag I will die to a Vanguard 4 out of 5 times in a 1v1...

[Vernei]

...to an experienced and highly certed Vanguard driver.

I am an experienced and highly certed Magrider pilot. I have experienced gunners. I have the most tricked-out Magrider possible. It doesn't matter. If I am in a true one on one combat scenario with a Vanguard, at least four out of five times the engagement will end with my tank blowing up. That doesn't include "losses" in which I lost the engagement but managed to escape without my tank being destroyed - in which case the odds are even more pathetic.

Why is this? It is because the Vanguard's Shield provides a full eight seconds of near invulnerability - with absolutely zero downside. While this shield is active, the Vanguard can continue to drive at full speed, turn at full speed, and engage with both primary and secondary weapons at full DPS.

Yes, it is possible to break the shield, as it absorbs a flat amount of damage, however, the amount of DPS a single Magrider puts out isn't enough to break the shield quickly - even if all the shots land, the Vanguard still received basically four seconds of invulnerability, all the while, it continues to pound away on you at full DPS.

It is also quite difficult to maneuver away from a Vanguard while the shield is active, as the Vanguard still has full mobility and can easily chase a fleeing Magrider behind any cover that it has attempted to utilize. Also, if the nose of the Magrider is pointed toward the nearest rock in a futile attempt to flee, the primary gun is not putting DPS on the target - making it even less likely for the shield to be broken before the full eight seconds. All the while, the Vanguard is firing away at you at full DPS.

It is precisely this scenario why Magriders are simply no match for Vanguards. At greater distances, Magrider survivability increases, but only because the Magrider is more likely to be able to take cover behind a rock and repair for a few seconds while the Vanguard closes the distance. Regardless, once that Vanguard is within 100m, the Magrider is toast the vast majority of the time in a one on one.

Here are a few solutions that I believe will bring Vanguards back into balance and at least give Magriders a fighting chance to survive in combat with them.

1) When the shield is engaged, the Vanguard keeps full mobility and speed, but is unable to fire any of its weapons while the shield is active. To compensate, reduce the cooldown timer from 45 seconds to 25 seconds.

2) When the shield is engaged, the Vanguard loses 25% speed, and is able to fire its secondary weapon, but unable to fire the main gun while the shield is active. To compensate, reduce the cooldown timer from 45 to 35 seconds.

3) When the shield is engaged, the Vanguard loses 75% speed, but is able to fire both primary and secondary weapons, thus sacrificing mobility for DPS. To compensate, reduce the cooldown timer from 45 to 35 seconds.

I believe any one of these solutions would go a long way to bringing balance back into MBT combat in Planetside2 . I welcome any constructive comments or suggestions.

Tank you for your time,
Vernei
Ghosts of the Revolution Phantom Guard Executive Officer - Mattherson

[blashyrk]

...to an experienced and highly certed Vanguard driver.

I am an experienced and highly certed Magrider pilot. I have experienced gunners. I have the most tricked-out Magrider possible. It doesn't matter. If I am in a true one on one combat scenario with a Vanguard, at least four out of five times the engagement will end with my tank blowing up. That doesn't include "losses" in which I lost the engagement but managed to escape without my tank being destroyed - in which case the odds are even more pathetic.

Why is this? It is because the Vanguard's Shield provides a full eight seconds of near invulnerability - with absolutely zero downside. While this shield is active, the Vanguard can continue to drive at full speed, turn at full speed, and engage with both primary and secondary weapons at full DPS.

Yes, it is possible to break the shield, as it absorbs a flat amount of damage, however, the amount of DPS a single Magrider puts out isn't enough to break the shield quickly - even if all the shots land, the Vanguard still received basically four seconds of invulnerability, all the while, it continues to pound away on you at full DPS.

It is also quite difficult to maneuver away from a Vanguard while the shield is active, as the Vanguard still has full mobility and can easily chase a fleeing Magrider behind any cover that it has attempted to utilize. Also, if the nose of the Magrider is pointed toward the nearest rock in a futile attempt to flee, the primary gun is not putting DPS on the target - making it even less likely for the shield to be broken before the full eight seconds. All the while, the Vanguard is firing away at you at full DPS.

It is precisely this scenario why Magriders are simply no match for Vanguards. At greater distances, Magrider survivability increases, but only because the Magrider is more likely to be able to take cover behind a rock and repair for a few seconds while the Vanguard closes the distance. Regardless, once that Vanguard is within 100m, the Magrider is toast the vast majority of the time in a one on one.

Here are a few solutions that I believe will bring Vanguards back into balance and at least give Magriders a fighting chance to survive in combat with them.

1) When the shield is engaged, the Vanguard keeps full mobility and speed, but is unable to fire any of its weapons while the shield is active. To compensate, reduce the cooldown timer from 45 seconds to 25 seconds.

2) When the shield is engaged, the Vanguard loses 25% speed, and is able to fire its secondary weapon, but unable to fire the main gun while the shield is active. To compensate, reduce the cooldown timer from 45 to 35 seconds.

3) When the shield is engaged, the Vanguard loses 75% speed, but is able to fire both primary and secondary weapons, thus sacrificing mobility for DPS. To compensate, reduce the cooldown timer from 45 to 35 seconds.

I believe any one of these solutions would go a long way to bringing balance back into MBT combat in Planetside2 . I welcome any constructive comments or suggestions.

Tank you for your time,
Vernei
Ghosts of the Revolution Phantom Guard Executive Officer - Mattherson

My brother and I drive a Magrider with Saron (both barely certed) he's usually the driver and I'm the gunner. We go on insane killstreaks (it's usually about 10 tanks, same number of sunderers, countless infantry and even a couple of ESFs) during a lifetime of a single Magrider.

I don't mean to brag, I just want to express that Magrider is highly capable (although definitely a bit hindered compared to other MBTs), but only if you
use it properly and ONLY if you have a gunner on a decent secondary cannon.

Magrider being weak as it is, you really need to pick fights only at a higher distance, where you can slowly but steadily pick at enemy armor from a distance while the driver strafes and evades enemy shells (evasion is impossible at short/medium distances even with strafe ability because the other MBTs' tank shells have extremely high velocity) and Saron is perfect for this, because it has no projectile drop.

Currently the only bright spots of the Magrider are the Saron secondary and the ability to use terrain to your advantage better than with other MBTs. That being said, its main gun is absolutely terrible.

[Baneblade]

Funny, because the Magrider is the exact thing I don't want to see on the battlefield. I'd rather charge a line of lockdown Prowlers.

[MrMak]

I like how you make 0 mention of the fact that a Magrider can use the magburer to easily get away or s\circle around to the vuneralbe side of any tank.

The Vanguard is slow and has poor accleration which also hinders it's hill climbing capabilatios. Im pretty sure you CAN get away or dodge.

You want the vanguard shield to have a downside? fine. Come up with one for the Magburner aswell.

[Ruffdog]

Thing is when it's 2 vehicles v 2 vehicles I bet the Maggie wins 5/5

[blashyrk]

I like how you make 0 mention of the fact that a Magrider can use the magburer to easily get away or s\circle around to the vuneralbe side of any tank.

The Vanguard is slow and has poor accleration which also hinders it's hill climbing capabilatios. Im pretty sure you CAN get away or dodge.

You want the vanguard shield to have a downside? fine. Come up with one for the Magburner aswell.

Perhaps so, but Prowlers and Vanguards have omnidirectional turrets which turn a lot faster than you can circle the enemy MBT with the Magburner, thus the advantage is basically nullified.

[MrMak]

Perhaps so, but Prowlers and Vanguards have omnidirectional turrets which turn a lot faster than you can circle the enemy MBT with the Magburner, thus the advantage is basically nullified.

It would be if the armor was the same all around.

[PredatorFour]

Then make a dedicated av tank to take them on, av for both guns. I got an av loadout and its more of an equaliser against vannies.

[Qwan]

I rarely to never pull mags, so I really have no comment about the vehicle and its abilitys. But i will say this fixed gun in the front of the mag is its downfall, its a horrible attempt at making the vechicle all alien, and personnally I find it to be a joke. When I am forced to pull a mag, combat is horrible, I usually kill more friendly softies standing around, and bump into everything. I think the MBT on all factions are horribly designed, the gunner as the driver was just not the smartest way to go.

[ringring]

The Magrider is death on wheels.








without the wheels.

[Dougnifico]

Interesting. As a TR tanker I can say we get killed 2 out of 3 times against either... until we anchor. If I start the engagement and my anchor is down, goodbye vanguard, shields or not.

[Sledgecrushr]

The magrider like the NC max is probably best when it chooses the terrain that it wants to fight on. If an nc max is caught outside in the open it is not a potent foe. If the magrider decides to fight on hilly terrain against a vanguard it gains a tremendous mobility advantage. Use the terrain to your advantage and win. Fight a vanguard in the open and you will lose more often than not.

[blashyrk]

The Magrider is death on wheels.








without the wheels.

This is kinda equivocal... Death for the Mag pilot/gunner or their opponents :D?

[Jonny]

My advice: Don't fight a vanguard head on, they can shield and block your damage. Get magburner fully certed and get round to shoot their ass. Best way! If it fails you can still jet away and hide :)

[Rbstr]

You can't fight a vanguard in a slug-fest if they have AP. The shield makes it impossible to win.

You have to cause him to miss or be unable to hit you somehow. So long ranges and cover. Or pray they're crap and try to burn behind them (because, yeah the turret can quite easily keep up)? Otherwise just say "nope".
If they aren't running AP, it's quite a lot more doable.
But why wouldn't they use AP? It's so hilariously good.

[hashish]

lol, i agree.. Its extremely rare to see mags rolling around in the same way that Vanguards and Prowlers do..

[typhaon]

If you somehow get trapped by a Vanguard up close - then yeah, you're in trouble.

Otherwise, Magrider's agility can easily make up the difference... as someone else said - I'd rather fight a Prowler any single day of the week.

Magriders ability to go anywhere and turbo away is very OP. There are very few places in the game where the Vanguard would be the best choice for MBT, if you could choose from all 3...

[blashyrk]

If you somehow get trapped by a Vanguard up close - then yeah, you're in trouble.

Otherwise, Magrider's agility can easily make up the difference... as someone else said - I'd rather fight a Prowler any single day of the week.

Magriders ability to go anywhere and turbo away is very OP. There are very few places in the game where the Vanguard would be the best choice for MBT, if you could choose from all 3...

I think you vastly overestimate Magriders' agility. Yes, it's agile, yes it can climb on top of hills, but it isn't as easy as you may perceive it and it takes a lot of time to pull off. Magrider isn't OP by any means, in fact it only has advantage over very long ranges or when it has already caught an enemy MBT off guard after maneuvering on some hill. When used to defend tech plants, amp stations etc it gets simply devastated by other MBTs.

[Ertwin]

The biggest problem I see is "1vs1" Why on earth would you go solo? It's just like Halloween for children. Travel in groups, and stay off the road.

[bpostal]

This may sound like I'm trolling but I'm honestly asking here: Why do you engage Vannies in 1v1 then? Bring your whole crew and stomp faces.
It's not like the game is balanced around 1v1, that would be ridiculous with a game of this scale.

[maradine]

We don't let armor roll solo. Good, bad, or indifferent, it ensures those fatal one-on-one slugfests don't happen.

[AThreatToYou]

I disagree with this on the principle of balance between the factions being asymmetrical. Vanu have superior air-cav and anti-air; Margiders have much, much, much less to worry about from the Reaver [worst ESF]. I would say Vanu have better MAXes and better SMGs [no bullet drop on slow velocity projectile], but that is debatable.

The Vanguard is one of the few advantages the NC have, and its advantage is at close range. Let's keep it that way.

[Sledgecrushr]

Stay off the roads

[blashyrk]

Vanu have superior air-cav and anti-air

Replace Vanu with TR and this is absolutely correct.

[AThreatToYou]

With respect to the NC vs VS, I am almost completely sure Vanu have better AA/A2G/A2A.

[Assist]

With respect to the NC vs VS, I am almost completely sure Vanu have better AA/A2G/A2A.

uh wut

[bpostal]

This thread must be a train because it's off the tracks!

[blashyrk]

With respect to the NC vs VS, I am almost completely sure Vanu have better AA/A2G/A2A.

Arguments, please.

Here's mine:
1) Striker
2) Mosquito is the most agile, most responsive, fastest ESF and also has the smallest hitbox
3) Vulcan is the most efficient ES MBT/Harasser secondary when it comes to AA

What exactly does VS have in terms of AA that NC doesn't? Please don't say Lancers :p

This thread must be a train because it's off the tracks!

Quite true

[AThreatToYou]

Arguments, please.

Here's mine:
1) Striker
2) Mosquito is the most agile, most responsive, fastest ESF and also has the smallest hitbox
3) Vulcan is the most efficient ES MBT/Harasser secondary when it comes to AA

What exactly does VS have in terms of AA that NC doesn't? Please don't say Lancers

1) Striker, Mosquito and Vulcan are TR. I'm not talking about TR.
2) VS have Scythe, which is outright superior to the Reaver because the Reaver is:
- Fattest profile/easiest to hit
- Least agile
- Slowest
- All-around reaver worst ESF
3) VS have Zealot MAX + AA Bursters, which is better than the NC MAX for dealing with Reavers that may threaten Magriders.
4) Are you confusing NC and TR? NC is blue team, Blue team doesn't have Striker, a good ESF, or anything even remotely close to the Vulcan in terms of AA.

So I am saying that the Magrider has less to worry about from the air when fighting Vanguards, where the Vanguard is going to have no air cover most of the time. Thus considering asymmetrical balance, this is fair since the Vanguard has more threats that it potentially cannot respond to. VS clear Liberators much more easily than NC do, especially Dalton libs at high altitude which would primarily threaten Vanguards.

Granted! The Vanguard can nail ESFs with a single round and blow it up. The Magrider can't. If anything should change, that should.

[blashyrk]

1) Striker, Mosquito and Vulcan are TR. I'm not talking about TR.
2) VS have Scythe, which is outright superior to the Reaver because the Reaver is:
- Fattest profile/easiest to hit
- Least agile
- Slowest
- All-around reaver worst ESF
3) VS have Zealot MAX + AA Bursters, which is better than the NC MAX for dealing with Reavers that may threaten Magriders.
4) Are you confusing NC and TR? NC is blue team, Blue team doesn't have Striker, a good ESF, or anything even remotely close to the Vulcan in terms of AA.

So I am saying that the Magrider has less to worry about from the air when fighting Vanguards, where the Vanguard is going to have no air cover most of the time. Thus considering asymmetrical balance, this is fair since the Vanguard has more threats that it potentially cannot respond to. VS clear Liberators much more easily than NC do, especially Dalton libs at high altitude which would primarily threaten Vanguards.

Granted! The Vanguard can nail ESFs with a single round and blow it up. The Magrider can't. If anything should change, that should.

I'm not confusing anything, here's what you wrote in a prior post:


I disagree with this on the principle of balance between the factions being asymmetrical. Vanu have superior air-cav and anti-air;


Not once did you mention NC in particular in that post. You should have worded your post better, because you clearly wrote that VS has superior air and anti-air, which by itself means being superior in comparison to the other 2 factions, overall.

Now that you've explained what you meant, I do agree with you. Honestly, I cannot even imagine what you guys are going through air game-wise because I know how hard it is for VS against TR in that regard, it is even harder for you. The Reaver is a joke. It can rarely come out on top in a fight against a Scythe or a Mossie with a pilot of same skill. Mosquito is the downright ruler of the skies when it comes to ESFs. The Scythe is viable and efficient, kinda middle of the road, but the Reaver cannot really compete at the moment. That's why I never miss the opportunity to sincerely congratulate a Reaver pilot who shoots me down (unless he had an unfair advantage or better starting position).

[Mastachief]

Someone just save us all some time and slap the OP. The vanguard is statistically the worst tank simples the sheild is a gimmick laughed at by strikers and vulcans. Give me a quick and agile tank any day. Right now the lightning is the best nc tank.

[MrMak]

Someone just save us all some time and slap the OP. The vanguard is statistically the worst tank simples the sheild is a gimmick laughed at by strikers and vulcans. Give me a quick and agile tank any day. Right now the lightning is the best nc tank.

Now you are just being silly.

[igster]

I actually think all three tanks are pretty balanced to be honest. All three tanks are dangerous in certain situations and weak in others. Vanguard up close slugging it out and with certed shield will beat most. Don't get up close.
Locked down prowler even 1/2 will give you trouble if you've not taken account of them and they flank you unexpectedly.
Magrider's are still the class act they always have been when driven smartly.

Properly equipped and driven by a good crew - all the tanks will have good fairly even battles. Most outcomes are determined by the experience of the crew not the vehicle that they are in.

Chances are most of the time now in a tank (any faction) you'll die to
- a good crew getting a jump on you
- imbalanced situations like
- a hacked wall turret near a base
- sneaky engineer setting up a snarky turret
- a wolf pack team swarming you with a co-ordinated armor or air column
- the ever present unchallenged ESF dominance.
- snidey tank mines

Overall it's in a very good place right now. Lots of people pulling strong tanks between bases and having good fights without a great deal of imbalance.

The only thing that I think may be a little strong is the Vulcan on a harasser. Would be interesting to see the stats between enforcer/saron/Vulcan harassers in anti vehicle combat.

The harasser has really given the armour game another dimension which I welcome.

[Ogre]

To the topic starter:

I drive a vanguard, but my biggest problem is C4 and Mines. After a while I figured out that being near places where infantry can sneak up on me is a poor idea. While I personally enjoy getting up close and personal, it is not viable for me so I had to change it up alot.

The mag rider could benefit from a bit of love, but each faction has its pros and cons. Your maxes have ZOE, ours have a shield that stops us from attacking. Point to vanu. Each ability has it's uses, but can be trumped in a certain sitaution. The devs seem to look at the entire faction when it comes to balance, and in certain areas they accelerate over one another. That doesn't mean its a guaranteed win, but you now have to plan out how you fight it out.

I'd actually like to see what you roll with, as far as main/ secondary weapon, certs, etc. I think the community could come up with some solid builds and advice if your mission is to "remove vanguard".

[Shamrock]

I like how you make 0 mention of the fact that a Magrider can use the magburer to easily get away or s\circle around to the vuneralbe side of any tank.

The Vanguard is slow and has poor accleration which also hinders it's hill climbing capabilatios. Im pretty sure you CAN get away or dodge.

You want the vanguard shield to have a downside? fine. Come up with one for the Magburner as well.

Running Magburner instead of smoke to break locks is a seriously bad idea (unless you enjoy dying in under a minute) in most armour fights, maybe less so against NC, but very few people swap out load-outs according to what faction they are facing.

Some people can still make the Magrider work fairly well, but I mostly see a lot of stock mags getting chewed up. Personally I swapped to using a lightning months ago.

[Assist]

It's amazing the misinformation about vehicles. For knowing so much about ESF's and MBT's as some of you claim, you would think we'd get some solid information statistics out of this discussion!

Truth is the Magrider isn't supposed to win 1v1 with any MBT, it has a fixed turret and the other two do not. The Magrider advantage is range, burst speed, and most importantly positioning in fights. It's made for farming infantry, if you want to kill enemy vehicles and you're a VS player just get a buddy and use lancers(severely underrated weapon).

The ESF's are so similar now I don't understand why people argue their differences. Personally, as a primary VS player, I prefer the Mosquito. However, the Reaver was buffed up to par with the other ESF's a few updates ago and the Scythe, if lacking at all, is not that far behind the Mosquito.
This is just another example of why SoE cannot balance three factions without making them all the same, as someone has said in the past it's no longer Empire Specific Fighter, it's Everyones Stock Fighters. As they are damn near identical now in almost every way in terms of manueverability, speed, and firepower.

(Just for example, since I pointed it out. The Reaver is the fastest overall ESF because of the afterburners, but the Mosquito is the fastest non-afterburner. If you average out the speeds over the same distance[long enough to include 2 runs of afterburners], the Reaver is overall faster in average speed than the Scythe with the Mosquito lagging behind in 3rd)

[AThreatToYou]

I knew they were similar, but not that similar. I wish they were more different, after we introduced an NS fighter, truth be told.

What IS absurdly different for them all is their lateral and vertical profile. The Reaver has the fattest one by far. That's enough to make it the worst.

[Mustakrakish]

...to an experienced and highly certed Vanguard driver.

... and how many "experienced and highly certed" Vanguard drivers do you come across, exactly?

If they're few and far between, then I don't really see why the Vanguard Shield ought to get nerfed for everyone because a handful of players invested the time and certs to become good with it.

If they seem fairly common to you, then that's a big indicator that you're simply not as good as you seem to think you are. In that case, the Vanguard Shield shouldn't be getting nerfed to compensate for your lack of skill with the Magrider.

How difficult is it to kill a shielded Vanguard that isn't being driven by an "experienced and highly certed" driver?

The only conclusion I can draw here is that you're not really playing to the Magrider's strengths (i.e. range, maneuverability, main gun stability) very well if the shield is such an insurmountable obstacle for you.

[igster]

There seem to be many different strategies for tanking... there isn't a cookie cutter build I suspect it's personal preference.

Funnily enough - our magrider setup is radar (not smoke or magburner), halberd (over saron) and FPC.

We focus on farming armour columns and not infantry. The alpha strike of the halberd gives it really good punch at range where you should be engaging targets. We do know other drivers who like the saron for its accuracy and versatility.. but my preference is the halberd. Once you're used to the trajectory it's really strong.

If you have a smart driver who uses terrain to break locks the radar gives you a massive advantage in dealing with HAs and Light Assaults trying to be sneaky. It even helps with stealth armour and harassers.

We used smoke for a very long time and thought it was indispensable - its really good - but if you can achieve similar results in other ways - the radar is a great feature.

I can honestly say we rarely get killed by C4 these days since we switched to using radar. It also is a big benefit when dealing with infantry in and around bases.

Oh and we rarely have trouble with any type of tank in particular.

Magrider > all the tanks.

:):):)

[Osskscosco]

Shield, enough said.

Just don't try to 1v1 one.

[SternLX]

I like how you make 0 mention of the fact that a Magrider can use the magburer to easily get away or s\circle around to the vuneralbe side of any tank.

1) Using Magburner means you have to put your vulnerable soft and squishy ass end towards the enemy. Or the very least a side and portion of rear if choosing a diagonal escape vector.
2) A tracked vehicle can rotate it's main body to keep it's rear away from a Circle strafing Magrider.

You want the vanguard shield to have a downside? fine. Come up with one for the Magburner aswell.
Again, the downside to using Magburner is pointing your ass at the enemy to get away. I could see this as a valid argument if Magburner accelerated us in any direction chosen on the X plane.

The best solution I can think of and I have mentioned it during Beta(which fell on deaf ears)since we can't rotate the main cannon separate of the main body like the Tracked MBT's is to allow the Magrider to have the same top speed in reverse as our forward speed.

One of the main points by the OP is that Vanguards can turn and run at full speed while keeping their main cannon(or both weapons if 2 manning it) on the Enemy. Magrider can only hope to get behind some kind of cover quickly and then turn around to bring it's main to bear. I've been gunned down by fleeing Vannies with Shields up on more than a few occasions in the beginning. I learned my lesson so I don't bother chasing them any more.

[Osskscosco]

A 1/2 vanguard with shield is one thing, but a 2/2 vs any 2/2 tanks will always win. In the duration of the shield the vanguard can drop you to 50% or less then you can start shooting the most heavily armored tank in the game.

Or you can magburner away, while you will surely get 2 hits in the ass and die. Or prowlers can deploy to increase dps against an invulnerable tank and die.

Perfectly balanced!

[EVILoHOMER]

Still better than the Prowler, you have to hit twice to get max damage and most the time you'll only hit the once, especially over rough terrain.

[Baneblade]

At least the Prowler can do half damage in that situation... the rest of us miss 100%.

[War Barney]

I think he made the title wrong, he meant to say *when I fight a vanguard in a mag I win 4/5 times* after all the mag rider is so manoeuvrable and doesn't get hindered by small rocks like other tanks so its pretty hard to hit if the drive is good. If you try to sit still and slug it out sure you're going to lose, if you play smart and dodge you will win almost every fight.

[MrMak]

Wel judgeing by the fact almost everyone in this thread thinks their faction's tank is the worst of the worst and the other ones are OP id say the tanks are blanced.....

[Baneblade]

I don't think the Vanguard is the worst. I think the Mag is the worst, the control method sucks balls. Understanding the strengths and weaknesses of all three seems to be pretty rare among players.

[Osskscosco]

Just fought a vanguard, i could shot it 4 times before turned to me. He popped shields and i had red health when it ended just from the enforcer and vanguard cannon.

That joke of a shield should drop from a set amount of damage.

[Sledgecrushr]

Just fought a vanguard, i could shot it 4 times before turned to me. He popped shields and i had red health when it ended just from the enforcer and vanguard cannon.

That joke of a shield should drop from a set amount of damage.

You need to fill in some blanks about what the situation was and what exactly happened.
What kind of certs do you have in your magrider?
What kind of cannon were you using?
Did you have a second gunner?
What is your secondary weapon?

Also there are two situations that drop a vanguards shield.
1-time expires
2-the shield absorbs X amount of damage and fails

"He popped shields and i had red health when it ended just from the enforcer and vanguard cannon", this tells me almost everything I need to know about the vanguard. What kind of armor did the vanguard have? Where were you shooting this vanguard at..ie side, rear, front?

[Calisai]

Running Magburner instead of smoke to break locks is a seriously bad idea (unless you enjoy dying in under a minute) in most armour fights, maybe less so against NC, but very few people swap out load-outs according to what faction they are facing.

Some people can still make the Magrider work fairly well, but I mostly see a lot of stock mags getting chewed up. Personally I swapped to using a lightning months ago.

Swap-out loadouts... maybe not, but by looking at the map and figuring out which faction you are more likely to meet, you can pick the correct loadout to begin with.

I have a "turtle" loadout that has Front Armor, Smoke, Rival Chassis, Halberd and PC. It's meant to fight TR... mostly striker infantry, but also be able to handle the occasional prowler.

Whereas, my "shark" loadout, is Stealth, Magburner, Racer Chassis, Saron and FPC. It's meant for killing all vehicles... by flanking and hitting from side or behind at CQC ranges.

I also have a long-range Rival/Auto-repair/Halberd/FPC loadout for long-range ridge to ridge fighting. (not a big fan of this playstyle, so this loadout gets little use, I'd rather work on flanking the established front lines in this case)




Properly equipped and driven by a good crew - all the tanks will have good fairly even battles. Most outcomes are determined by the experience of the crew not the vehicle that they are in.

Chances are most of the time now in a tank (any faction) you'll die to
- a good crew getting a jump on you
- imbalanced situations like
- a hacked wall turret near a base
- sneaky engineer setting up a snarky turret
- a wolf pack team swarming you with a co-ordinated armor or air column
- the ever present unchallenged ESF dominance.
- snidey tank mines


Most battles I am in are determined prior to the first shot being fired. Either I get the jump on them and/or are positioned correctly to have the advantage, or they have the position and the shield (NC) or raw DPS (TR) overwhelm me. It's not the tanks fault at that point, it's mine. It's all about awareness of the battle and putting your tank in the best position possible. Or accepting that if you try and fight from a bad position, that you'll lose most of the time.



How difficult is it to kill a shielded Vanguard that isn't being driven by an "experienced and highly certed" driver?

The only conclusion I can draw here is that you're not really playing to the Magrider's strengths (i.e. range, maneuverability, main gun stability) very well if the shield is such an insurmountable obstacle for you.

A badly timed shield won't help a vannie out when I engage them. Half the time, I can usually bait them into popping the shield too early... where I have cover to duck behind while it runs out.

However, I can see the instance where two equally, but lesser skilled drivers fighting each other would have the shield play a massive role in determining the outcome of the fight. This is where the shield probably feels impossible to overcome. Newer drivers try and drive the Mag like a Tank. It needs to be driven more like infantry. Either like a HA (popping out from behind cover to shoot off it's heavy rockets, then ducking back) or like LA (using its abilities to gank people from unexpected angles either medium range or from behind).

Sitting out toe-to-toe against either of the other tanks trading one for one blows it will lose most times. Even worse, rolling headlong into a zerg fight expecting to explode everything in front of you like you are invincible. Both are the signs of an inexperienced Mag driver.

[almalino]

I don't think the Vanguard is the worst. I think the Mag is the worst, the control method sucks balls. Understanding the strengths and weaknesses of all three seems to be pretty rare among players.

But, but..... MAgrider control method is the same as infantry control. Left right forward backward, strafe and rotation. Do I miss something?

[War Barney]

Maybe he likes really slow clunky tannks that stop dead if they run into a pebble instead of one that is very mobile, the only 1 with turbo and just hovers over those tank stopping pebbles. I can see how.. I mean... er... I honestly tried really hard to think up a way he could prefer the controls of other tanks but I can't think of it.. the mag is just 100% better in every way in terms of its control and ability to dodge attacks. Its not even like anybody could try to deny that so why he's saying that.. it baffles me.

then again people keep saying the NC MAX is fine or OP when tests have been done showing it has all the worst guns, some people are just crazy

[hashish]

Unfortunately guys, at the end of the day.. You have Vanguard zergs and prowler zergs that can sweeep across the map and rinse everything.. which is cool..

But you will NEVER EVER see Magrider zergs accomplishing something like that EVERRR ! Maybe once in a blue moon ! lol

People just dont use them like they use prowlers or vanguards.. because they SUCK

Even 10 v 10 Mag vs Prowler/Vanguard.. There is a very low chance of VS winning, and that will only happen if you have well certed mags with a relativity competent crew.. Otherwise you just get fucccked in like 2-3 shots lol

Hence why people tend not to use them.. Because the mass majority of players are not sooo high level and dont have such well certed mags..

The ones that DO.. Dont see the point in using their well certed mags because they are so few of them and DO NOT stand a chance !

[Baneblade]

But, but..... MAgrider control method is the same as infantry control. Left right forward backward, strafe and rotation. Do I miss something?

Maybe he likes really slow clunky tannks that stop dead if they run into a pebble instead of one that is very mobile, the only 1 with turbo and just hovers over those tank stopping pebbles. I can see how.. I mean... er... I honestly tried really hard to think up a way he could prefer the controls of other tanks but I can't think of it.. the mag is just 100% better in every way in terms of its control and ability to dodge attacks. Its not even like anybody could try to deny that so why he's saying that.. it baffles me.

Both of you are a little off, I don't dislike the way the Mag can maneuver (well, I can't say I like it when I'm up against one)... I just don't like the way the controls interface with it. You can be baffled all you want, doesn't change anything. I prefer driving the Vanguard over the Mag in 100% of scenarios.

[Maginnis]

1) Using Magburner means you have to put your vulnerable soft and squishy ass end towards the enemy. Or the very least a side and portion of rear if choosing a diagonal escape vector.
2) A tracked vehicle can rotate it's main body to keep it's rear away from a Circle strafing Magrider.


Again, the downside to using Magburner is pointing your ass at the enemy to get away. I could see this as a valid argument if Magburner accelerated us in any direction chosen on the X plane.

The best solution I can think of and I have mentioned it during Beta(which fell on deaf ears)since we can't rotate the main cannon separate of the main body like the Tracked MBT's is to allow the Magrider to have the same top speed in reverse as our forward speed.

One of the main points by the OP is that Vanguards can turn and run at full speed while keeping their main cannon(or both weapons if 2 manning it) on the Enemy. Magrider can only hope to get behind some kind of cover quickly and then turn around to bring it's main to bear. I've been gunned down by fleeing Vannies with Shields up on more than a few occasions in the beginning. I learned my lesson so I don't bother chasing them any more.

This isn't entirely fact.

1) A Van/Prowler can rotate to keep the rear away from a single enemy Magrider, true. The rotational speed necessary depends on the distance of the Magrider, however. The truth of this scenario is that success or failure of the Van to protect its flank will depend on:

a) Terrain/positioning - a Mag which attacks on uneven terrain may have an advantage, as rotating a Vanguard on uneven ground will affect the Vanguard's firing arc more than a Mag (significantly)

b) both tanks' chassis - If the Mag is running Rival and the Van with Racer, a Mag at close range will be able to circle-strafe faster than the Van can rotate. Additionally, the Mag can literally drive over the Van (or past it) which would force the Van to swing its turret 180 degrees to re-acquire, and given the rotational speed of the turret, this isn't necessarily easy, especially when you factor re-aiming.

c) the presence of other friendly or enemy units/turrets, etc. This comes down to situational awareness of the overall scenario, modified by the armor configuration of the tank (front, side, etc).

d) Vanguard cannons have recoil, and it's not only vertical. A Van shooting sideways has to adjust for each shot. A Magrider doesn't. This effectively gives the Mag an accuracy advantage, especially in moving fights over non-flat terrain, where the Vanguard driver has to adjust for movement of the tank, terrain-related gun movement and also recoil.

The downside for a Mag driver is projectile speed. The Mag AP "shell" is slower, close-medium range, it's not a huge problem on slower moving or stationary targets.

One advantage is that the Mag can climb rock formations and place itself in areas which regular MBTs cannot go w/o without risk or perhaps at all. As another person here said, this gives the Mag pilot the ability to use cover more like infantry, whereas a Prowler or Vanguard will either get stock or fall down (and be vulnerable if they don't explode from flipping over).

The honest truth is that I'd be more afraid of Harassers in a Mag than a Vanguard, but the ability to drift and turbo *might* be an advantage in that it would help to make the Mag a more difficult target to hit, especially for the average Halberd gunner.

[War Barney]

Unfortunately guys, at the end of the day.. You have Vanguard zergs and prowler zergs that can sweeep across the map and rinse everything.. which is cool..

But you will NEVER EVER see Magrider zergs accomplishing something like that EVERRR ! Maybe once in a blue moon ! lol

People just dont use them like they use prowlers or vanguards.. because they SUCK

Even 10 v 10 Mag vs Prowler/Vanguard.. There is a very low chance of VS winning, and that will only happen if you have well certed mags with a relativity competent crew.. Otherwise you just get fucccked in like 2-3 shots lol

Hence why people tend not to use them.. Because the mass majority of players are not sooo high level and dont have such well certed mags..

The ones that DO.. Dont see the point in using their well certed mags because they are so few of them and DO NOT stand a chance !

I saw it tonight.. I saw it last night.. I see it every night on woodman cos our mag pilots apparently know how to use their mags. It works VERY well blowing the crap out of everything.

I don't know if your just lying to try and get your already fine perhaps verging on OP due to its insane mobility thus making it the tank of choice for good players (harder to use but better when you know how) or if you are on a server of bad players

[camycamera]

yeah, the vangard's shield is a little OP. speed should be reduced by 25%, as should the turning speed of both primary and secondary turrets to be lowered by 25% a mag could easily out counter that.

but mags are scary.