TR air dominance getting out of hand (Connery)

[phungus]

I don't want to only have to fly my mossy, but unfortunately things have pretty much become that way on Connery. Or rather I can fly as a lone wolf A2A predator using overpowered A2Am with my mossy only; this is not a viable playstyle for my sythe or reaver (even if I shed A2Am and go for AB tanks). Every time I log in TR skys are choked with mosquitos, and flying over TR space guarantees continual striker locks making it next to impossible to enter TR territory. During prime time it seems there are more mosquitos on Indar then sythes and mossys combined, add this to the effect of strikers and it's just completely broken.

This isn't a L2P issue, I recently hit 40K SPH, unboosted durring regular XP earnings (not double XP); no one who's planning to respond with that standard L2P could achieve that in an ESF. I'm not the best, metalfig is certainly better then me, and there are many players (who even post on here) who are probably better then I am in an ESF (and certainly have better aim), but I am one of the top ESF pilots on Connery and I'm probably one of the best ESF pilots at all 3 ESFs as most of the really great ESF pilots focus on one of the ESFs and I fly all 3 quite a bit.

The problem isn't the mosquito either, the mossy is fine, the ESF balance is fine. The problem is the combination of TR ground AA being outright superior to the other factions (TR lockdown + the Vulcan + the Striker -- the NC and VS don't have anything that compares to any of those singularly, the fact TR get those three things combined is way over the top). The ground AA advantage TR has snowballs things, making more mossys in the air, and at a certain point the air game just becomes only about numbers. With how things work TR always has the numbers in terms of ESFs, and this just snowballs; meaning more VS and NC ESFs die compared to TR mossys, leaving more mossys in the air to create a vicious positive feedback loop.

This has been a growing problem but it's gotten completely out of hand the last couple of weeks. Right now there is not even the appearance of balance in the air game on Connery. TR has complete and utter dominance and it's really broken. I love flying my mosquito, but I'd also really like to be able to fly my sythe again.

[NUKABAZOOKA]

I don't want to only have to fly my mossy, but unfortunately things have pretty much become that way on Connery. Or rather I can fly as a lone wolf A2A predator using overpowered A2Am with my mossy only; this is not a viable playstyle for my sythe or reaver (even if I shed A2Am and go for AB tanks). Every time I log in TR skys are choked with mosquitos, and flying over TR space guarantees continual striker locks making it next to impossible to enter TR territory. During prime time it seems there are more mosquitos on Indar then sythes and mossys combined, add this to the effect of strikers and it's just completely broken.

This isn't a L2P issue, I recently hit 40K SPH, unboosted durring regular XP earnings (not double XP); no one who's planning to respond with that standard L2P could achieve that in an ESF. I'm not the best, metalfig is certainly better then me, and there are many players (who even post on here) who are probably better then I am in an ESF (and certainly have better aim), but I am one of the top ESF pilots on Connery and I'm probably one of the best ESF pilots at all 3 ESFs as most of the really great ESF pilots focus on one of the ESFs and I fly all 3 quite a bit.

The problem isn't the mosquito either, the mossy is fine, the ESF balance is fine. The problem is the combination of TR ground AA being outright superior to the other factions (TR lockdown + the Vulcan + the Striker -- the NC and VS don't have anything that compares to any of those singularly, the fact TR get those three things combined is way over the top). The ground AA advantage TR has snowballs things, making more mossys in the air, and at a certain point the air game just becomes only about numbers. With how things work TR always has the numbers in terms of ESFs, and this just snowballs; meaning more VS and NC ESFs die compared to TR mossys, leaving more mossys in the air to create a vicious positive feedback loop.

This has been a growing problem but it's gotten completely out of hand the last couple of weeks. Right now there is not even the appearance of balance in the air game on Connery. TR has complete and utter dominance and it's really broken. I love flying my mosquito, but I'd also really like to be able to fly my sythe again.

I think you're overstating the usefulness of the lockdown/burster combo. However, I will agree that it is a bit absurd that it is near mandatory for Scythes/Reavers to run flare in their utility slot, whereas most Mosquitos I've seen do not.

[EvilNinjadude]

Question: How much better is the Striker than the Annihilator?


EDIT: Okay, I checked the wiki... Striker locks on faster and deals more damage per magazine. Dammit, I knew I should have gotten the Striker instead.

Needs lower RoF, methinks?

[blashyrk]

The problem isn't the mosquito either, the mossy is fine, the ESF balance is fine. The problem is the combination of TR ground AA being outright superior to the other factions (TR lockdown + the Vulcan + the Striker -- the NC and VS don't have anything that compares to any of those singularly, the fact TR get those three things combined is way over the top).

I've taken this chunk out of context, I hope you won't mind. While I do believe Scythe and Mosquito are relatively balanced in comparison to each other, the Reaver however is not. Maybe on paper, but that winged Moskvitch is so easy to see, hear, and hit that its armor and DPS advantage is a non-factor unless they can somehow get the jump on an enemy unaware ESF. In fights on fair terms, it usually loses badly. Actually I think the Mossie is the best overall and quite a few Youtubers who are skilled pilots tend to agree on this.

I completely agree that TR G2A is second to none, though.

[blashyrk]

Question: How much better is the Striker than the Annihilator?


EDIT: Okay, I checked the wiki... Striker locks on faster and deals more damage per magazine. Dammit, I knew I should have gotten the Striker instead.

Needs lower RoF, methinks?
The Striker, though very powerful, is most notorious for its missiles' ability to clip through whole mountains (either that or they follow your exact trajectory).

It is getting a change to the lock on mechanics in the ESF update, we'll just have to wait and see how it turns out.

P.S. Sorry for the double post, I can't seem to find a way do delete it :/

[phungus]

I think you're overstating the usefulness of the lockdown/burster combo. However, I will agree that it is a bit absurd that it is near mandatory for Scythes/Reavers to run flare in their utility slot, whereas most Mosquitos I've seen do not.

lockdown and vulcan's effect on the air game by themselves wouldn't be an issue. The fact TR get both these along with the stiker while the NC and VS get nothing to boost their AA just makes things out of wack - especially since it makes the Mossy number advantage snowball as more NC and VS ESFs die over time to ground fire - leaving more mossy in the air which increases TR air power. This is a classic vicsious positive feedback loop, and it's really obvious this is what's going on. This has created an even larger (and more damaging to game balance) vicious feedback loop where TR pilots are getting more experience and there are now considerably more decent and improving TR mossys in the air. I've really noticed this over the past couple weeks.

In terms of your second point, while it used to be true that mossys could get away with any utility and sythes and reavers were forced to use flares due to the striker, since A2Am were fixed all 3 ESFs are forced to load flares.

[phungus]

I've taken this chunk out of context, I hope you won't mind. While I do believe Scythe and Mosquito are relatively balanced in comparison to each other, the Reaver however is not. Maybe on paper, but that winged Moskvitch is so easy to see, hear, and hit that its armor and DPS advantage is a non-factor unless they can somehow get the jump on an enemy unaware ESF. In fights on fair terms, it usually loses badly. Actually I think the Mossie is the best overall and quite a few Youtubers who are skilled pilots tend to agree on this.

I think the reaver is inferior, but not by much, the V-thrust and extra dps are very good, just like the larger hitbox and lack of acceleration are really bad.

Personally I think ESF performance rests almost entirely on the player, their playstyle will dictate which ESF they find to be "the best". Any discrepencies in ESF balance would take minor tweaks to iron out, and really there are at least a hundred things that would be more important for the developers to focus on. The issues with air balance and why things are so broken right now rests squarely on TR having all the ground AA goodies and VS and NC having none. It's completely out of wack, and it's creating a vicious positive feedback loop that's only making things worse.

[blashyrk]

I think the reaver is inferior, but not by much, the V-thrust and extra dps are very good, just like the larger hitbox and lack of acceleration are really bad.

Personally I think ESF performance rests almost entirely on the player, their playstyle will dictate which ESF they find to be "the best". Any discrepencies in ESF balance would take minor tweaks to iron out, and really there are at least a hundred things that would be more important for the developers to focus on. The issues with air balance and why things are so broken right now rests squarely on TR having all the ground AA goodies and VS and NC having none. It's completely out of wack, and it's creating a vicious positive feedback loop that's only making things worse.
True, but TR players either aren't aware of the pain their AA causes, or they're simply playing dumb hoping that it will remain that way.

[maradine]

We finished up our Op last night early and took a small force into alts as TR on Connery for shits and giggles. Three of us dumped some SC in to Strikers. It is literally an entirely different world. Shit just melts. I had no idea farming the air could be that rewarding. No wonder TR always has the high ground on the southern ridge!

That said - as a pilot, I'm generally much more concerned when I come up against a BR100 Reaver jockey than a BR100 Mossie. I'm a traditional pilot - the Reaver's blatant defiance of physics is much harder for me to correctly react to then the Mossie's casual disregard for it.

So! Mixed bag. I think the TR are definitely winning the air game, but I don't think it's simply because the Mossie is a better sled. There's more to it than that.

I'd still take the Scythe over either of them - it feels the best in my hands, and it fits neatly under all the branches of Indar.

[phungus]

That said - as a pilot, I'm generally much more concerned when I come up against a BR100 Reaver jockey than a BR100 Mossie. I'm a traditional pilot - the Reaver's blatant defiance of physics is much harder for me to correctly react to then the Mossie's casual disregard for it.

I think you are flat out wrong here. I find pro sythes to be the most difficult to fight actually, due to their hitbox. And hoverduels are only one part of the air game, kind of minor actually. How ground AA effects the air game, and how TR mossy numbers snowball has a huge impact. What good are my superior hoverduel skills and the abilities of a Reaver if I'm always fighting 3v1? The air game playing as or against TR isn't even comperable anymore, they are completely different games and I really feel it needs to be fixed. And no, it has nothing to do with the ESF differences, it's all about TR ground AA being outright better, drastically so.

[Kirotan]

IMO the Reaver is the best ESF when you get into the top tier pilots. Beginners and intermediates will struggle with it, however. The size is countered by how nimble it is in a dogfight.

Also, the sound of the Vortek rotary gives me nightmares.

As for the Striker and lock-ons, I think it won't be so bad once they fix them going through terrain and pilots have a chance to use cover to evade the missile.

[maradine]

I think you are flat out wrong here. I find pro sythes to be the most difficult to fight actually, due to their hitbox. And hoverduels are only one part of the air game, kind of minor actually. How ground AA effects the air game, and how TR mossy numbers snowball has a huge impact. What good are my superior hoverduel skills and the abilities of a Reaver if I'm always fighting 3v1? The air game playing as or against TR isn't even comperable anymore, they are completely different games and I really feel it needs to be fixed. And no, it has nothing to do with the ESF differences, it's all about TR ground AA being outright better, drastically so.

I'm reasonably certain a personal opinion, which is what I presented, can't be "flat out wrong" by definition. I also specifically asserted that it was more complicated than any one factor, of which numbers is certainly part. Finally, I explicitly called out the ridiculousness of Striker teams as a contributing factor.

In summary: just what the hell post did you respond to? Or are you just contrary by inclination?

[phungus]

In summary: just what the hell post did you respond to? Or are you just contrary by inclination?

I am a contrarian by nature. I will be the first to play devil's advocate if the opportunity arises. Also people often frustrate me because they are so irrational, all of the time.... but that's another topic (it really gets interesting in terms of economics where we still operate under the assumption humans are rational actors when they most certainly are not!).

Also I think I misunderstood and thought you were trying to say the air game is balanced cause the mossy is the worst ESF. If you were not implying this, then OK. Like I've always said (at least since the change where weapons fired from the camera instead of the model's weapon) the ESFs are almost perfectly balanced in terms of strengths and weaknesses. Any ESF preference or perceived "betterness" will be do to player behaviors and how these interact with the different ESF strengths and weaknesses.

[EvilNinjadude]

Ya know what, Phungus, I actually kinda agree with you here. TR have good AA options (Burster bonus, Striker, and Vulcan). Plus now that people know they're good (or bugged) more people will use them, leading to NC and VS getting even more upset.

I think if buggy clipping, hell yes fix it. As for the vulcan... lower maximum elevation? That sounds like a brilliant idea. Focus on role AV weapon, make max elevation of 30 degrees or something? I like that idea.

[snafus]

Though experience may vary. I get just as many lock ons during my time in an Scythe or Reaver as I do during my TR play. But the one big difference was the overall effectiveness of the stryker which with it being broke only makes worse. But I would also add it seems NC and VS don't put as much emphasis on ESF as the TR do. I know the theory is ground based fire influences that but I feel there is other factors to.

Truthfully I think it is more outfit oriented why there isn't as much VS/NC ESF up. NC used to swarm us but with certain key outfits not being as active, I have seen a massive reduction in their active air wings. While TR outfits have been working on building theirs up. Obviously the argument could be made that AA drove them away but most that I speak to are simply bored.

Honestly I think TR just has more people that want to be dedicated fliers. We may not have to deal with strykers but the other A2G missile still do considerable damage. And share some of the same tracking bugs that all missile seem to have.

[NoXousX]

This thread can be summed up in 1 word:

Strikers. They are broken as shit and should have never been put in the game in their current state. It's embarrassing they have lasted this long.


Honestly I think TR just has more people that want to be dedicated fliers.

I completely disagree. There are more mosquitos buzzing around because they are the hardest to shoot down as an ESF pilot due to their model, and any time a mosquito gets in trouble all they have to do is be within 500m of a striker. GG.

I nuke reavers in NC territory all day. TR territory? Nope, because if I flare I'm done. Some A2AM scrub or a striker will take me out.

Fighting NC vs TR is night and day.

[Obstruction]

this is a little hilarious because on connery i am constantly seeing 12-19% turn out for TR during alerts versus 50-60% VS or NC.

as a full time pilot i mostly have to fight ESFs and Libs and barely have time to focus on ground forces. maybe it's just your playtimes and certain outfits being dedicated to flying and combined arms instead of just wishing it was an infantry game.

[EvilNinjadude]

I completely disagree. There are more mosquitos buzzing around because they are the hardest to shoot down as an ESF pilot due to their model, and any time a mosquito gets in trouble all they have to do is be within 500m of a striker. GG.
Says the guy who flies Scythes. Haha, nope.

[KesTro]

I definitely notice a bunch of Mossi's dominating the air but as Snafu said it may very well just be that they have more players that are looking to do that. As for the other comment about populations. Today was the first time I've seen NC above something like 36% in quite awhile. Today they were 46%, something was clearly up. As for TR populations dropping they are consistently the highest anywhere from 1am-8am PST.

Can't fight China.

[Kirotan]

this is a little hilarious because on connery i am constantly seeing 12-19% turn out for TR during alerts versus 50-60% VS or NC.

I've been playing every night on Connery and have been checking the world pops...12-19%? Come on. There's no need to exaggerate. 22-28% is more factual and still really bad.

[NoXousX]

Says the guy who flies Scythes. Haha, nope.

says K/D 0.46

[EvilNinjadude]

says K/D 0.46
:rofl: Look at this guy, he's trying to argue that KDR has any importance!

Yo dude, try playing at 10FPS, I dare ya.

[Kirotan]

:rofl: Look at this guy, he's trying to argue that KDR has any importance!

Yo dude, try playing at 10FPS, I dare ya.

KDR does lend a little bit of credibility for most aspects of the game unless you're writing a guide on playing pure support medic/engineer.

I know KDR isn't very popular because of the e-peen/killwhore stigma, but there are very good players out there with good KDR that play the objective and their word carries more weight because they can walk the walk.

[EvilNinjadude]

KDR does lend a little bit of credibility for most aspects of the game unless you're writing a guide on playing pure support medic/engineer.

I know KDR isn't very popular because of the e-peen/killwhore stigma, but there are very good players out there with good KDR that play the objective and their word carries more weight because they can walk the walk.I spend most of my time as a medic or engineer, fixing stuff up or staying in vehicles because I can't hold my own very well. I play support mostly.

The time I AM effective, where I get most of my kills and half of my deaths, is in places with low friendly and enemy presence. Where I get 20-30FPS (which I find superb) and can hold my own fairly well. I do however often get out-skilled too. That does not however mean that I am less intelligent. Maybe I'm less skillful too, I haven't had the chance to practice things quite as well as everyone else.

[Whiteagle]

Before: "ZOMG GAA TOO OP PLZNERF!!!"

...Now?

I'll be over here doing my "I told you so!" Dance...

[Sock]

I spend most of my time as a medic or engineer, fixing stuff up or staying in vehicles because I can't hold my own very well. I play support mostly.

The time I AM effective, where I get most of my kills and half of my deaths, is in places with low friendly and enemy presence. Where I get 20-30FPS (which I find superb) and can hold my own fairly well. I do however often get out-skilled too. That does not however mean that I am less intelligent. Maybe I'm less skillful too, I haven't had the chance to practice things quite as well as everyone else.

You have a staggering 20 kills in a mosquito. Sorry, but you're hardly qualified to comment on top-tier air balance.

[blashyrk]

Before: "ZOMG GAA TOO OP PLZNERF!!!"

...Now?

I'll be over here doing my "I told you so!" Dance...

... now TR G2A is still a bit OP (because of the powerful and broken Striker) and the rest is fine.

[EvilNinjadude]

You have a staggering 20 kills in a mosquito. Sorry, but you're hardly qualified to comment on top-tier air balance.Well, I can land hits on Reavers. I can't land hits on Scythes. I've seen videos about what Scythes can do. But I don't deny you have a point.

[Sock]

Well, I can land hits on Reavers. I can't land hits on Scythes. I've seen videos about what Scythes can do. But I don't deny you have a point.

No doubt reavers are much easier to hit from just about every angle compared to scythes. The issue with the reaver is vertical thrust and the current strength of the Vortek rotary. The balance issue stems from the fact that there's only a very small minority of the playerbase good enough to really utilize both of those components. I can toast most reaver pilots, but when I run into one of the really good ones, I'm excited just to clip them with my debris after I'm dead. The mossie, on the other hand, is fairly well balanced. It's external factors (striker mostly) that make it so powerful.

It'll definitely be interesting to see where the power shift occurs post-ESF update.

[Magnifiscent]

Though experience may vary. I get just as many lock ons during my time in an Scythe or Reaver as I do during my TR play. But the one big difference was the overall effectiveness of the stryker which with it being broke only makes worse. But I would also add it seems NC and VS don't put as much emphasis on ESF as the TR do. I know the theory is ground based fire influences that but I feel there is other factors to.

Truthfully I think it is more outfit oriented why there isn't as much VS/NC ESF up. NC used to swarm us but with certain key outfits not being as active, I have seen a massive reduction in their active air wings. While TR outfits have been working on building theirs up. Obviously the argument could be made that AA drove them away but most that I speak to are simply bored.

Honestly I think TR just has more people that want to be dedicated fliers. We may not have to deal with strykers but the other A2G missile still do considerable damage. And share some of the same tracking bugs that all missile seem to have.

I don't want to wave around the Connery TTA flag too much, but Snafu has been doing a great job organizing a coalition air wing. TxR's Skywatch loves to participate and we have a very active group. Having run with this group and seen what we can accomplish, I have to wonder if this isn't having a major impact on Connery air space.

I've also noticed a marked decline in the Reaver swarm phenomenon, but there are still good air battles to be had. I do miss the days when 666 would bring 15 reavers screaming out of the sky, or GOLD, or CCG. The only HT guy I see anymore is GuapoNC. I see a lot more VS than I used to, but they like the ground for some reason (ZOE*cough*)

I see FAR more enemy planes killed by our air superiority guys than I do strikers or bursters, but that might be observational bias. I own a striker, but haven't gotten the kind of use out of it that NC and VS players seem to report, so I don't know what the disconnect is there. Maybe I'm not spending enough time in the right kind of situations to farm the air with it.

It might be wishful thinking, being TxR's air squadron leader, but I really want to say the TR are dominating in the air because our pilots are good, our outfits are organized, and we're working hard to achieve air superiority.

[PredatorFour]

Another VS perspective;

Mossies are hardest to hit in my scythe but i like the challenge against a decent mossie pilot, usually ends when another 2 come in and ruin the dogfight.

The reaver is phenomenally easy to fly pulling off maneuvers like flying sideways or backwards with ease. I recently started a character for a laugh on NC and was suprised when i flew a stock reaver at how easy it was with its down facing thrusters.

My opinion on k/d is that it doesn't mean much. It normally means you will pussy out/ not be brave cos your worried about it. It's thrilling trying to take on lots of enemies at once but it's certain death too.

If you were to play planetside with the intention of good k/d, i would defo go for a TR mossie and fly around friendlies with strikers as Sock pointed out.

[snafus]

It'll definitely be interesting to see where the power shift occurs post-ESF update.
I have a feeling that the Scythe may come out on top after the ESF update. But this is simply an opinion and we will have to wait and see first.

[TheAadvark]

Well on Waterson it's the complete opposite, DVS dominates the air not because anything of their's is OP just because they must have people more willing to follow orders. And they have amazing Lib pilots.

There was this one Vanu Lib guy I can't remember his name he is the best pilot period, he took down all our air from Indar bay bombed our tanks duked our missiles, he basically flew that thing like the Viper from BF3 ducking in and out of cover.

I just hope he wasn't doing any funny business (hax ?). After a while we out down our arms and were just watching him go lol . Beautiful .

[SolLeks]

I am waiting on the ESF update to get back into the game...

Currently, with the lag + A2AM + G2AM, its not much fun to be a loan pilot as there are not -that- many dedicated flyers in X. I also feel that the ESF balance is fairly good however I would like to note that my bias is from the higher end of pilots. If you take a look at the 3 ESF with noob - mid range pilots, the Mossie is eaiset to fly IMO, followed by the scythe, followed by the reaver and I feel a large part of that is because of the hitboxes.

For a newer player, hitting a reaver is easy as they don't have to be as accurate, and newer reaver pilots will not have the V thrust manuvers down so they can not rely on the reaver's streanghts to help.

Thus we have less noob - mid level reaver pilots, and it takes longer for said pilots to become decent, where we can have many more noob scythe and mossie pilots getting a lot more flight time in as they are not shot down as quick (at least until a good pilot shows up lol).

Then we have the G2A rockets and A2AM spam that has been going on for all 3 factions with a notable advantage of the TR stryker.

These are my feelings at least, and until the lag on connery is figured out and the ESF update comes out, I will probably not be playing that much sadly as I feel my preferred gameplay is a bit gimped due to these things.

Edit:

I also want to note, I don't believe the NC or the VS have a alliance wide air wing set up either, I have flowen with Snafu and the TTA (thanks for the few that feed me good mossies xD) and they work well together and get stuff done wile attempting not to crash into each other. They have both numbers and a command structure that seems to work where the NC and VS don't seem to in the air department. I am sure that makes a difference as well but the rest of my post still stands imo.

[EvilNinjadude]

Well on Waterson it's the complete opposite, DVS dominates the air not because anything of their's is OP just because they must have people more willing to follow orders. And they have amazing Lib pilots.This may be most apparent on Indar, but on Esamir too I see people like ItsJustDash flying around killing stuff all day erry day. I think a lot of those people are pretty cool and stuff. I haven't tried flying the reaver in a long time, maybe I should get to it.

But most of the cool maneuvers I've seen on Youtube that involve slowing down, cutting corners and otherwise using vertical thrust while rolling, have been done with... Reavers. So I'm calling No-BS on that point.

[phungus]

Snafu runs the most organized and scary air wings on Connery, for sure. But we can't, and shouldn't nerf snafu to achieve balance; plus I think the reason why Snafu is finding more and more pilots to fly for him is because there are simply more Mossys getting more flying time since they aren't dropped as frequently as Sythes and Reavers from ground AA. Also I kind of agree with Noxous, it really is all about the Striker it's just exacerbated by the combination of all the TR ground AA advantages and the vicious positive feedback loop this creates (more sythes and reavers go down, more mossys to sythe/reaver ratio, more TR air power compared to NC/VS = vicious positive feedback loop) that is creating a problem. It's also compounded by the fact A2A predators avoid TR airspace and thus pros and packs that hunt ESFs in enemy air space are almost never hunting mossys, they are always going after reavers and sythes, again, all because of the striker.

What I mean by it's getting out of hand is that I'm seeing TR pilots on average becoming better and more experienced as a result which is making the vicious positive feedback loop even more vicious. What I'm really afraid of is that the devs balance around the data, specifically SPH and K/D ratios. I don't want to see the mossy nerfed, the mossy the great. To fix this imbalance I hope they realize it's the ground AA and how this has effected the air game. I can't imagine this is only Connery where this is going on.

[EvilNinjadude]

Snafu runs the most organized and scary air wings on Connery, for sure. But we can't, and shouldn't nerf snafu to achieve balance; plus I think the reason why Snafu is finding more and more pilots to fly for him is because there are simply more Mossys getting more flying time since they aren't dropped as frequently as Sythes and Reavers from ground AA. Also I kind of agree with Noxous, it really is all about the Striker it's just exacerbated by the combination of all the TR ground AA advantages and the vicious positive feedback loop this creates (more sythes and reavers go down, more mossys to sythe/reaver ratio, more TR air power compared to NC/VS = vicious positive feedback loop) that is creating a problem. It's also compounded by the fact A2A predators avoid TR airspace and thus pros and packs that hunt ESFs in enemy air space are almost never hunting mossys, they are always going after reavers and sythes, again, all because of the striker.
Unfortunately you're hitting on a weak point of this game here: Everything is a positive feedback loop. Everything.
Vastly outnumbered at a facility fight? People will leave or snipe from spawn.
People's tanks get killed again and again? Run out of resources, everyone pulls tanks at different times, tanks get picked off one by one as they come out.
The Zerg will win a facility fight. Everyone hops aboard and joins the zerg for support XP from repairing, reviving, assist and cap XP.
If people are pushed to their spawn room at random, for any reason, immediately they are at a disadvantage because the enemy knows where they are coming from, and the defenders can thereby outnumber the attackers and still lose because they're caught in the choke point of their own spawn.
Less territory meaning less resources (even if there is a smaller front line, vehicles>infantry)

Devs are trying to fix this, and it's been getting better. "Reinforcements needed" leading away from the zerg and to balanced battles. Spawn room revamp. Less XP for spawn-farmed players, and more for high threats. Basing resources less on territory control (rich get richer effect). XP bonus for low pops.

But snowballing is a problem in a game like this, and we've got to continue trying to get rid of it by going against the zerg. Tank columns, coordinated outfits, that kind of thing. So yeah, good luck against the Strikers, hope other factions get better G2A survivability soon!

[NUKABAZOOKA]

Says the guy who flies Scythes. Haha, nope.

Nox has over 5 days in a Mosquito and over 7 days in a Scythe. He has far more credibility than you.

[EvilNinjadude]

Nox has over 5 days in a Mosquito and over 7 days in a Scythe. He has far more credibility than you....can't find a nice way to say GTFO right now.

[maradine]

Dickwaving Detected: Thread Aborted.

Next up on PSU - Lululemon's VS spandex contract cancelled! New supplier sought!

[Kirotan]

...can't find a nice way to say GTFO right now.

There's no need to be rude when you can easily state your case.

Originally Posted by NoXousX View Post
I completely disagree. There are more mosquitos buzzing around because they are the hardest to shoot down as an ESF pilot due to their model, and any time a mosquito gets in trouble all they have to do is be within 500m of a striker. GG.

To which you replied:

Says the guy who flies Scythes. Haha, nope.

In a Mosquito, you have 20 kills and 54 vehicle kills.

Source: https://players.planetside2.com/#!/5428029729509756913/vehicles

In a Mosquito, Noxous, on his alt, has 8529 kills and 3008 vehicle kills.

Source: https://players.planetside2.com/#!/5428010618037212385/vehicles

Please explain to us why you disagree with Noxous that Scythes are harder to shoot down than Mosquitos. Feel free to cite any sources and factual evidence you have to back up your claim.

[phungus]

Please explain to us why you disagree with Noxous that Scythes are harder to shoot down than Mosquitos. Feel free to cite any sources and factual evidence you have to back up your claim.

Well Mossys are harder to shoot down then sythes when chasing, because mossys have a wider range of evasive actions they can take while keeping speed and don't have a "weak angle" where the hitbox becomes huge while they are performing evasives. That said I think a sythe is better off in a hoverduel, I find it much harder to hit the pancake at medium range while hover strafing. This is one of the reasons I think the ESF balance is really good, because there is a good case to be made for each of the ESFs being "the best" and players with multiple days of playtime in multiple ESFs often disagree.

I also don't see where ninjadude ever really disagreed with Noxious. He even said on the first page that he thinks TR AA is OP compared to the NC and VS. To me it looks like ninjadude is a dedicated TR and just took a shot at Noxious who responded in kind with his K/D comment.

[EvilNinjadude]

There's no need to be rude when you can easily state your case.We'd already sorted it out. There was no need for him to post this. I'd already conceded, was there a need for him to bring it up? Again?

I didn't want to be rude. I felt like telling him that he was being... stupid? A dick? Rude? By bringing it up again. I couldn't think of a decent way to say it. Sorry.

[Obstruction]

22-28% is more factual and still really bad.

world pop yeah, but all they do is stay on indar.

[Coltorl]

I have a feeling that the Scythe may come out on top after the ESF update. But this is simply an opinion and we will have to wait and see first.

That's what I was thinking too, with the projectile velocity on its rotary and increase in damage.

[Whiteagle]

... now TR G2A is still a bit OP (because of the powerful and broken Striker) and the rest is fine.
Ah yes, the Launcher that need to hit with SEVERAL rockets just to equal the damage of an Annihilator...
So OP it'z scary brah!

I see FAR more enemy planes killed by our air superiority guys than I do strikers or bursters, but that might be observational bias. I own a striker, but haven't gotten the kind of use out of it that NC and VS players seem to report, so I don't know what the disconnect is there. Maybe I'm not spending enough time in the right kind of situations to farm the air with it.

Well on Waterson it's the complete opposite, DVS dominates the air not because anything of their's is OP just because they must have people more willing to follow orders. And they have amazing Lib pilots.
This is the real problem, now that Ground AA has been nerfed, the Air battle comes down to whoever can bring the most pilots to the table.

The Striker isn't Overpowered, because we'd see the TR have an outright Air advantage across every server if that were the case.

No, this is EXACTLY what I was trying to warn you Airchavs about; If Air does NOT have a sufficient Ground-based Counter it runs rampant all over the balance of the rest of the game!

The Striker is apparently buggy as hell and I'm willing to consider that this allows it to score some cheap kills, but it is not a game breaking issue.
Furthermore I doubt Lockdown BursterMAXes are tipping things that much in our favor period, considering they now cost MORE Resources than an ESF and have severely reduced defensive vectors when their ability is active.

Connery Air isn't ridiculous because of Terran Ground AA, it's because Connery TR have MORE PILOTS then everyone else!

[SolLeks]

Ah yes, the Launcher that need to hit with SEVERAL rockets just to equal the damage of an Annihilator...
So OP it'z scary brah!


Now how often do you NOT hit several rockets with the ani? It is eaither none or as many up to 5 depending on range.



This is the real problem, now that Ground AA has been nerfed, the Air battle comes down to whoever can bring the most pilots to the table.


Lol no, I have killed up to 3 enemy aircraft in a single dog fight (3v1) and I often kill one then try and find another. Numbers do not help after a cirten ammount, in fact, they can hinder.



The Striker isn't Overpowered, because we'd see the TR have an outright Air advantage across every server if that were the case.


I have flown through the last part of beta. The skygaurds then would kill you almost the second they saw you. The strykers are OP yes, but they are not 100% air clearingly OP


No, this is EXACTLY what I was trying to warn you Airchavs about; If Air does NOT have a sufficient Ground-based Counter it runs rampant all over the balance of the rest of the game!

The Striker is apparently buggy as hell and I'm willing to consider that this allows it to score some cheap kills, but it is not a game breaking issue.
Furthermore I doubt Lockdown BursterMAXes are tipping things that much in our favor period, considering they now cost MORE Resources than an ESF and have severely reduced defensive vectors when their ability is active.

Connery Air isn't ridiculous because of Terran Ground AA, it's because Connery TR have MORE PILOTS then everyone else!

And they have more pilots because their ground AA is better.

Your turn.

[Whiteagle]

Now how often do you NOT hit several rockets with the ani? It is eaither none or as many up to 5 depending on range.
Uh, you end up not hitting with the Anni more between flares and terrain...

The only reason a Striker would strike better is because you can decide after the first rocket whether or not to continue with the rest.
Seriously, that's it's only real advantage; ammunition conservation!

Lol no, I have killed up to 3 enemy aircraft in a single dog fight (3v1) and I often kill one then try and find another. Numbers do not help after a cirten ammount, in fact, they can hinder.
Yes, and Snafu is an ace pilot even though he ends up flying into the debris of his own kills...

I don't care if YOU can ground an entire Air wing on YOUR OWN, it's whoever can KEEP the most birds in the air consistently that are going to win.
So when you log off for the day, how many fresh wings on your Faction are waiting to take up your slack?
My guess, NOT ENOUGH!

And they have more pilots because their ground AA is better.

Your turn.
Yeah, because last I bothered to check, the DVS horde WASN'T face rolling everything with two Reavers and a Lib...:rolleyes:

Again, if Terran Ground to Air was advantageous, we wouldn't be getting our asses kicked every time the Smurf Swarm decides they want to farm...

Notice we've had at least THREE Connery TR Pilots pipe up in this thread, suggesting a disproportionately large ratio of Pilots on that server.

[Snoggy]

Does a dalton count as G2A?

[KesTro]

world pop yeah, but all they do is stay on indar.

Because you sold your soul to China. And something even vaguely resembling leadership. Can't say I blame 'ya.

[SolLeks]

Uh, you end up not hitting with the Anni more between flares and terrain...

I derped and meant to say striker there, not the anni.


I don't care if YOU can ground an entire Air wing on YOUR OWN, it's whoever can KEEP the most birds in the air consistently that are going to win.
So when you log off for the day, how many fresh wings on your Faction are waiting to take up your slack?
My guess, NOT ENOUGH!


Yeah, because last I bothered to check, the DVS horde WASN'T face rolling everything with two Reavers and a Lib...:rolleyes:

Again, if Terran Ground to Air was advantageous, we wouldn't be getting our asses kicked every time the Smurf Swarm decides they want to farm...

Notice we've had at least THREE Connery TR Pilots pipe up in this thread, suggesting a disproportionately large ratio of Pilots on that server.

I never really questioned on the fact that TR have more pilots, my question to you is this though, Why does the TR have more pilots?

My awnser to above is a mixture between how the mossie is the best ESF at low flight experiance and that the TR have both more and stronger AA options (stryker + lockdown, though mainly stryker).

More TR carry strikers than NC and VS use the Annihilator. They don't have to choose between a good anti ground and good anti air as the stryker is good at both (its not as good vs ground, but that is how most lock ons are.) where the NC and VS have to choose between 3 options. Powerful AA, Powerful AV or weaker AA/AV.

[Whiteagle]

I never really questioned on the fact that TR have more pilots, my question to you is this though, Why does the TR have more pilots?

My awnser to above is a mixture between how the mossie is the best ESF at low flight experiance and that the TR have both more and stronger AA options (stryker + lockdown, though mainly stryker).
But you are wrong, TR only have more Pilots on Connery.

On Waterson we have the DVS back in the Air, so you see the sky filled with Reavers and Blue Libs.

You are trying to make this a case of circular logic, where TR have more Air because their Ground AA forces others to have less, when the reality is Connery just had a larger number of TR Pilots to begin with and now that the game has been tilted too far in Air favor does this imbalance effect everyones overall game play.

I haven't gotten on in weeks, because the DVS has more than enough Air power to spare a Liberator with Reaver Support to ruin a push on the opposite side of the map against the VS!

[snafus]

TR having the most pilots is a somewhat new concept for Connery. I have seen the pilot population swing back and forth between NC and TR due to the release of the ZOE and lock down maxes. That initial period when that update hit you saw NC pilot numbers simply plum it. As they went from being the largest air power to almost the smallest within a couple weeks. Due to NC not really getting any substantial AA buff from the max update.

Now AA was not the only thing driving players away from the game. As many I spoke to were simply bored or upset about lack of direction in the game. But AA's OP situation only made it worse by not allowing lower skilled pilots to be even remotely successful in any medium or larger sized fight.

Now the NC are dealing with a lack of dedicated pilots since so many left already, or are simply not playing as much as they used to. You add that on top of the TR building up dedicated air wings designed to engage the old NC heavy air wings. And the current state of the broken Stryker and other lock on mechanics and you have one bad hand for the NC.

But also notice I didn't mention the VS. Though they still have to deal with the stryker and its incredibly buggy nature. They did not suffer so badly during the max update scandal. Pre merge VS were vastly underpopulated on Connery but still had a very high ratio of pilots up compared to their pop. Though they did not always out number TR or NC they still had a significant presence on most large fights. And now with post merge conditions VS can even out zerg TR when it comes to air power.Though VS may lack highly organized air wings they still can put up the numbers to make a difference. Not to mention they have plenty of Aces on their side of the fence to make a large impact in fights to.

From what I have seen is most servers are very different from each other. Even higby stated that it is almost an entirely different game when comparing one server to another. Currently TR have air supremacy for most fights on Connery. That is achieved because of the factors I already stated. But it isn't purely due to any one factor either. The stryker is broken, as any person who has gone against it can agree with. What isn't broken is VS or NC capabilities to still fly effectively with the Stryker on the field.

Currently Datablue is trying to build an air wing to counter what we have accomplished within the TTA air wing. And what he could create is the best answer for NC pilots to rally behind. And that is a dedicated and highly effective air wing which sole purpose is controlling any and all air space on the map. TTA had to form an air wing to deal with the 666 reaver swarm they would send at us. And now it is time for the NC and VS to counter us the same way.

You cannot blame everything on a broken weapon system for killing air presence. Though it very much is a factor there are many ways to work around them and still be effective as an air wing. You need to get your aces to work together and start building an organized air presence. Once you have that foundation you will find ways to stay relevant in any fight irregardless of AA presence. And that annoying air zerg will start looking more like free certs then a threat to your faction.

[SolLeks]

Ok, I see what yall are talking about. I will start putting together the ARA air wing soon.

Datablue is in one of the ARA outfits, so it should not be hard to coordinate.

[snafus]

Ok, I see what yall are talking about. I will start putting together the ARA air wing soon.

Datablue is in one of the ARA outfits, so it should not be hard to coordinate.

Nope, I doubt it would be to much of an issue for you guys. I know he is looking for more pilots lately and I'm sure he would love the addition.

[Shortwave]

The TTA air wing has recently seen a streak of success thanks to Snafu and Warbirdtd taking a two day meditation retreat to India.

Warbirdtd is our resident Meditation and Yoga expert, and was able to help Snafu achieve enlightenment. Two days later, this thread is created.


Thank you Warbirdtd for all your hard work.


We in the TTA, escpecially in MERCS believe that regardless of L2P, game mechanics, or hacks, nothing beats a solid mind focused and honed like a sharp knife by group meditation on TeamSpeak 10 minutes before a fight.

[Roxputin]

Says the guy who flies Scythes. Haha, nope.

I spend a considerable amount of time gunning Liberators and Noxous' statement is bang on. I would much rather have a reaver on my tail than a mossie any day. I cannot speak about the hitbox of the scythe as I am primarily VS atm.

[Dougnifico]

Ummm... ya. And that's all we have is air superiority. Right now we are kind of getting bf'ed hard. Let us have something at least. lol

[StraitDumpinSMF]

Lock ons rustle my jimmies more than they actually kill me. The only air wing that ever scared me on Connery was 26sp. Connery is Briggs now bra, make some lemonade and work with it. AKA farm NC.