GU 13 Update, by way of Higby

[Chewy]

https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/game-update-13-what-to-expect-and-when.141224/

Hey all -

Game Update 13 is right around the corner and it brings some pretty exciting change to Auraxis. Here are some highlights of the major changes and additions you can expect to see with the update. As always, last minute issues can pop up and delay some of these, but this is what we're looking at right now.

Esamir Lattice and Facility Refresh
The icy expanse known as Esamir has had a major facelift with virtually every facility and outpost modified and enhanced, with some being completely replaced. The goal with these changes is to enhance gameplay flow and help support the addition of the lattice connections on the continent. There are a lot of threads with screenshots floating around on the forums to check out, but I'd highly recommend (and humbly request) that if you can you spend some time on Public Test (Click for more info) Checking out the changes for yourself and providing some feedback. We could use all the help we can get finding bugs and areas in need of polish, so if you do hop on to Public Test please do make use of the report a bug feature - it really does help us out tremendously to have extra eyes on this kind of change.

Implants!
Implants are a consumable item that can be used to enhance your soldier with gameplay perks for a limited period of time. Each implant is equipped per-loadout and has a limited duration which is consumed only while that loadout is active. The implants are designed to give unique benefits that allow players to further refine their role & personal play-style without imparting an over-the-top player-power benefit.

Here are the currently planned implants we're launching with GU13:

Awareness: auto-spots enemies who damage you or that you damage
Battle Hardened: reduces camera shake from explosions and flinch
Clear Vision: Protects against concussion and flash grenade
EMP Shielding: Protects against EMP Grenade effects
Enhanced Targeting: increases the range that you can see enemy health bars and names
EOD HUD: Allows you to detect enemy explosives in a short radius around you
Regeneration: Slowly regenerates health over time when not in combat
Safe Landing: Reduces fall damage
Sensor Shield: Makes you undetected on enemy radar/motion sensors
Thermal Reduction: Prevents the wearer from being highlighted by thermal vision

We will be starting with these implant types available with more being added over time.

In addition to the implants we're putting in some feedback about implant resistance, so when you, as an EMP grenade user hit someone using an EMP Shielding Implant you'll receive some feedback to let you know it wasn't effective.


Implants will have relatively short durations (Measured in hours, not days) and low costs. Like weapons, they'll be available to purchase for both Certification Points and Station Cash. We're still finalizing the durations and costs for these items, but we'd love to hear feedback on the system.

Platoon Enhancements:
We're continuing to implement suggestions from players for platoon and squad management, with GU13 we've got two big player requests coming in:

Platoon voice channel management, ability for platoon leaders to set platoon VOIP channel to only be used by squad leaders
Platoon leader waypoints per squad, ability for platoon leaders to set individual squad waypoints for Alpha, Bravo, Charlie and Delta squads.

Spawn Changes:
Several enhancements to the respawn window:

There is now a category for Squad spawn points, if you're not in a squad this will allow you to auto-join a squad.
We've added some more respawn options, these should allow you to respawn at more locations near where you died, previously by default you were able to spawn at the nearest outpost, large outpost and facility (in addition to local spawn points, squad spawn points and reinforcement requests), now you'll be able to spawn at the nearest linked base (or adjacent base on non-lattice continents) in addition to the above, this should create some more consistently available fallback / reinforce positions.
Chat window added to the respawn screen

ESF Updates:
We are working on some extensive ESF changes that Kevmo has outlined (here). These changes are going to be coming over the next 2-3 game updates, starting with GU13. With GU13 you can expect:

Retuning of the default and rotary nose guns
When an enemy vehicle is destroyed via crashing, suicide or the player logging out the last player to damage the vehicle (within 10 seconds) will be awarded a kill credit.

New Weapons:
There are 4 new weapons coming with GU13:

NS-7 PDW SMG: This SMG has a lower damage drop-off than all the other SMGs, allowing it to perform well at short and medium ranges. Its low recoil and very quick center speed (fastest in the class) allow those with good burst control to extend it's range even further.
NC LA3 Desperado Pistol: This 2x burst pistol has a fast burst but slower overall rate of fire. The fast burst mixed with moderate damage makes this pistol a solid choice at close range, though low accuracy will limit its effectiveness at range.
TR TS2 Inquisitor: Equipped with an extended magazine by default, this pistol gives the TR a solid all-around option that has very high sustainability and damage output per magazine.
VS Cerberus: High upfront damage mixed with an above average rate of fire for that damage class makes this pistol a good choice at close range. Low accuracy will limit the pistol‘s effectiveness at range.

Suit Slot tuning:

The cert costs for the Ammo Belt cert line have been retuned.
Advanced Shield Capacitor has been tuned to make shields recharge significantly faster.

Vanu weapon audio update:
Most VS infantry weapons have had their audio significantly updated to be more impactful and satisfying.

And of course we have a pile of bug fixes and other misc. polish, performance fixes and tuning coming with the update too numerous to list, and full patch notes will be available as we get closer to releasing the update.

Our current plans are to release GU13 next Wednesday, 6/24.

As always, we're excited to hear your thoughts and feedback on the update and these upcoming features, and once again encourage you to check out the changes on Public Test before they go live next week!
See you on Auraxis!
-
Matthew Higby - @mhigby
Creative Director @planetside2

[Neurotoxin]

Charging SC or Certs for Implants is a bogus deal. That is literally buying power for those who will spend SC, and for those who don't its a risk-reward to decide whether the implant is worth the cost of certs or not.

Not everyone is going to want to expend certs (which are ONLY for unlocking items) to purchase finite consumables that should rightly be bought with Infantry consumable resources or a special new "Cybernetics" resource.

It has been a bogus deal since it was announced, and it is still a bogus deal. This feels like a bigger grab for money than charging for extra loadouts. I understand that there's a team whose paychecks need to be fulfilled each month, but breaking the balance and progression of the game by making implants available through certs or SC only is counter-intuitive to a free to play with no "buying power" model.

It also sets the precedent for future consumables or aspects of gameplay to require SC or Certs. Repairing player base defenses, arming and operating a Skylance, etc. These are things that should either be free or require expendable resources, not certs or SC.

[Dragonskin]

Hmmm, Esamir changes next week. Best part of the patch for me I think. Not sure about the implant thing.. we knew it was coming, but man.. this will be interesting.

[Neurotoxin]

Also, I'm worried that an update right before SOE Live is gonna screw up the tournaments. I feel like this should be delayed til after SOE Live so all the current bugs and desync issues can be fixed before the tournaments. I know GU13 supposedly fixes many things, but every GU has brought new bugs, and I feel like it puts pressure on the team to try to track and resolve them all before SOE Live (especially because some fixes also add bugs of their own)

[Dragonskin]

Also, I'm worried that an update right before SOE Live is gonna screw up the tournaments. I feel like this should be delayed til after SOE Live so all the current bugs and desync issues can be fixed before the tournaments.

It's coming out a full week before SOE Live. They have time to put a hot fix out and a general maintenance patch out before SOE Live. At least this won't be like the first MLG showing that had a patch literally just days before the event that slowed the servers to a crawl for the entire event.

[Greenthy]

Suddenly things like the shift from NV to TV and the healthbar visibility makes sense ...

If those implants aren't ingame resource bound, I might consider ditching the membership :(

[Ruffdog]

Charging SC or Certs for Implants is a bogus deal. That is literally buying power. Not everyone is going to want to expend certs (which are ONLY for unlocking items) to purchase finite consumables that should rightly be bought with Infantry consumable resources or a special new "Cybernetics" resource.

Agreed. Higby this is my feedback. Please do not have implants in the store or even available through certs. Those with money or those with membership will at a stroke be an improved soldier than those without. Please resist doing this.
Ive always said this game is not paytowin but paytosavetime. I don't care if johnny nc has spent his lawnmower money on a 20 dollar hand cannon. But the thought of someone possibly spending money to not show up on my x1 thermal scope makes me facepalm. That is pay-to-win a gunfight

Instead like NT said, roll out a 4th resource - the return of Auraxium? - to power these implants.

Oh and tie them to only unlock at a respectable battlerank. Categorize them , put them into tiers or something and grant them later in a toons progression. Give players something to strive for.

[ringring]

Esamir will be good.

Multiple hotspots for platoon leaders also good, but I hope squad wp1 is visible to beta squad etc.

[Sentrosi]

I don't know what was wrong with the purchase of certs in PS1. As you gained BR you gained unlocks for certifications. This rewards those who have played the game for a while. Each certification consumed 'energy' from you, making them a finite, but reliable, resource to use. I don't like the idea of purchasing a consumable implant for SC or certs. My solution is the following;

At every 20 Battle Ranks, you get access to an implant slot. Clean and simple.

Matt and the rest of the PS2 team, if you put the implants in as stated, the game will become unbalanced toward the casual player who doesn't spend SC or certs on these items. You will alienate a good chunk of your player base by doing implants this way. Honestly, I say you need to scrap this model and go back to the drawing board. I know I'm too little too late, but it needs to be said.

[Greenthy]

Matt and the rest of the PS2 team, if you put the implants in as stated, the game will become unbalanced toward the casual player who doesn't spend SC or certs on these items. You will alienate a good chunk of your player base by doing implants this way. Honestly, I say you need to scrap this model and go back to the drawing board. I know I'm too little too late, but it needs to be said.
QFT

Some of the implementations already feels like a milking system, this just makes it feel even more like we (as customers) are being milked for every penny or get left behind.

[ChipMHazard]

Too bad that we won't be seeing more of the ESF update this time around, but at least Jenny will get to laugh herself silly while killing all those who normally bailed on her.

Charging SC or Certs for Implants is a bogus deal. That is literally buying power for those who will spend SC, and for those who don't its a risk-reward to decide whether the implant is worth the cost of certs or not.

Not everyone is going to want to expend certs (which are ONLY for unlocking items) to purchase finite consumables that should rightly be bought with Infantry consumable resources or a special new "Cybernetics" resource.

It has been a bogus deal since it was announced, and it is still a bogus deal. This feels like a bigger grab for money than charging for extra loadouts. I understand that there's a team whose paychecks need to be fulfilled each month, but breaking the balance and progression of the game by making implants available through certs or SC only is counter-intuitive to a free to play with no "buying power" model.

It also sets the precedent for future consumables or aspects of gameplay to require SC or Certs. Repairing player base defenses, arming and operating a Skylance, etc. These are things that should either be free or require expendable resources, not certs or SC.

I have no real problem with the implants costing certs, as long as it's fair to those without boosts or unwilling to spend SC. Being against SC I can understand, that was kind of the thing back when they made it clear that SC wouldn't buy you power. Of course they were referring to certable options, but you can of course also buy weapons with SC. So there's that. I don't forsee more than the usual oproar for the first weeks or so.

On the note of the implants I do see some of them becoming more used that others.
Thermal Reduction: This will be used a lot when it's released, but not as useful when most people simply stop using thermal sights. Still an advantage during the night for Vanu or those with dark camo.
Sensor Shield: This is going to make people check rooms and areas more carefully instead of relying on the radard. Not sure how much this is going to be used as I haven't played with the new xp gain from sensor detection, so I don't know how many people use radar atm.
Clear Vision: That's going to be very useful for defending teams.
Awareness: For those too lazy to spam Q? I wonder how this is going to work with the silencer, kinda defeats the point if you get spotted while using it.
Enhanced Targeting: It's meh, but we all knew it was coming.

The rest are also meh, imo.

[bpostal]

Charging SC or Certs for Implants is a bogus deal. That is literally buying power for those who will spend SC, and for those who don't its a risk-reward to decide whether the implant is worth the cost of certs or not.

Not everyone is going to want to expend certs (which are ONLY for unlocking items) to purchase finite consumables that should rightly be bought with Infantry consumable resources or a special new "Cybernetics" resource.

It has been a bogus deal since it was announced, and it is still a bogus deal. This feels like a bigger grab for money than charging for extra loadouts. I understand that there's a team whose paychecks need to be fulfilled each month, but breaking the balance and progression of the game by making implants available through certs or SC only is counter-intuitive to a free to play with no "buying power" model.

It also sets the precedent for future consumables or aspects of gameplay to require SC or Certs. Repairing player base defenses, arming and operating a Skylance, etc. These are things that should either be free or require expendable resources, not certs or SC.

Not surprised by this. If anything I'm surprised they're being 'sold' for certs instead of just straight up SC.

...

Instead like NT said, roll out a 4th resource - the return of Auraxium? - to power these implants.

Oh and tie them to only unlock at a respectable battlerank. Categorize them , put them into tiers or something and grant them later in a toons progression. Give players something to strive for.
Yep, this is probably the best option from a player standpoint.

Platoon leader waypoints per squad, ability for platoon leaders to set individual squad waypoints for Alpha, Bravo, Charlie and Delta squads

This is the change I'm looking forward to the most.

[Sentrosi]

I like the idea of the implants tied to a finite resource that can be charged up over time similar to the stamina system in PS1. I was saying on Twitter to have the unlocks be every 20 BRs and that only one can be active at one time, and there is a cooldown period between switching implants on.

So a BR100 soldier can have 5 implant slots but can only activate one each time. Changing out implants would cost Auraxium.

[mrmrmrj]

If PS1 was any indication, the implants are nice to have but won't be must haves at all. None of those listed sound like big advantages. In PS1, sprint and advanced targeting were the most popular, but advanced targeting in PS2 isn't as useful since TTK is so much shorter.

As someone ready, willing and able to spend SC on these, nothing there makes me drool. They would have to be REALLY cheap (like 5 SC) to use them.

[wasdie]

I like the idea of implants, being able to tune a solider to a certain play style, but I absolutely despise this implementation. This is blatantly pay to win. Even if it's low cost, the fact they are not permanent gives people who have boosts and pay SC for them get them more often. That's pay to win right there.

They've done a great job of keeping the game pretty much not pay to win, but this pushes it into pay to win territory.

[Ruffdog]

If PS1 was any indication, the implants are nice to have but won't be must haves at all. None of those listed sound like big advantages. In PS1, sprint and advanced targeting were the most popular, but advanced targeting in PS2 isn't as useful since TTK is so much shorter.

As someone ready, willing and able to spend SC on these, nothing there makes me drool. They would have to be REALLY cheap (like 5 SC) to use them.

I would say the prowler driver in me would find adv targeting AMAZINGLY useful!

I like the idea of the implants tied to a finite resource that can be charged up over time similar to the stamina system in PS1. I was saying on Twitter to have the unlocks be every 20 BRs and that only one can be active at one time, and there is a cooldown period between switching implants on.

So a BR100 soldier can have 5 implant slots but can only activate one each time. Changing out implants would cost Auraxium.

How about you can access any implant you like at BR20, but its only tier 1? Tier 2 unlocks at BR40, tier 3 at 60 and so on until 5 at 100? So power comes not from paying but playing.
Cheaper to run at these higher levels maybe as a thank you for loyalty?

[Falcon_br]

Implants are looking too much p2w, if they costs in-game resources I am ok.
If they cost certs or SC, I will probably stop playing.

[MarlboroManE]

Lots of goodness in this update ... but nothing in the notes about the C4 nerf that's on PTS. Anybody got any insight on that?

[Hamma]

Got to admit I don't like this implementation of Implants, I also don't like some of the implants.

Allow players to pick and choose between X implant slots awarded per level (as someone said earlier) and make them spend cert points to buy them. They should not have a shelf life or be consumable. Once you get it, you then have it forever and have to pick which one you want to use at the time and can only have one active at a time. Now of the list below:

Awareness: auto-spots enemies who damage you or that you damage
Battle Hardened: reduces camera shake from explosions and flinch
Clear Vision: Protects against concussion and flash grenade
EMP Shielding: Protects against EMP Grenade effects
Enhanced Targeting: increases the range that you can see enemy health bars and names
EOD HUD: Allows you to detect enemy explosives in a short radius around you
Regeneration: Slowly regenerates health over time when not in combat
Safe Landing: Reduces fall damage
Sensor Shield: Makes you undetected on enemy radar/motion sensors
Thermal Reduction: Prevents the wearer from being highlighted by thermal vision

EOD: as if it's not already easy to spot explosives.
Clear Vision: an implant that totally makes something else invalid?
Regeneration: Essentially this will become the default implant for people.
Sensor Shield: Should be infiltrator only.
Thermal Reduction: an implant that totally makes something else invalid?

Overall I think this is one of those back to the drawing board moments, wish we could have seen more of this before we heard about it coming in the next GU.

When it boils down to it though? A BR1 player can still kill a BR100 player even if they spent zero dollars, none of the above implants is going to give some massive advantage a free to play player cannot get. The game will always have the great equalizer of player skill.

[Crator]

I'm also not liking the sound of them being a consumable that costs certs or SC. That's just a time/money sink.

EDIT: I like what Hamma said, finite amount of slots, implants one time purchase using CERTS ONLY, no SC, tied to battle rank too.

Some of these implants sound like they can really give you an edge so pay-to-win, in this case, sounds about right.

And, we're going to have to manually go into the character interface and select a new implant every couple of hours (when they run out)? Also, where's my surge implant?

EDIT: And the P2W crowd is going to go nuts over this. It's already begun. This time I don't disagree either. Game Update 13: What to expect and when. (https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/game-update-13-what-to-expect-and-when.141224/)

[Dragonskin]

Not going to jump on the Pay to Win band wagon yet.. but I can see where you guys are coming from in a way, but I don't see we are there yet.

We don't know the durations or cost. I know you guys want to throw around BR ranks, but higher BRs have much more disposable certs... especially BR 100s. So making them cost certs isn't really a terrible idea. There isn't a ton of things high BR players are dumping certs on... and again we don't know how much they cost or the duration. I think cost and duration are pretty key to knowing if these are really pay to win.

I can tell you as a paying player that unless the duration is insane.. not going to spend real money on these minor boosts. It's pretty easy for me to grind out 250 certs.... and I don't see most of these as P2W advantages. It's just a minor boost to me.

Can't show up on radar? So what? If you move I can hear you or see you if you come out of cover.

Aren't highlighted by thermal? Who cares... people no longer highlighted on NV and I can see them fine... blue tint... player moving around.. still seen, just slighty harder. Just won't be a giant yellow/red kill me sign.

Clear Vision? Honestly don't get concussed enough to worry about it. Can't tell you the last time I was flash banged.

Able to see explosives? Could be good in a vehicle, but on foot where I usually play.. they gave flashing lights to all the ones that bother me. Might be useful, but still not OMG game breaking.

Spot enemies when you get shot? Unless you are in a vehicle or have a medic ball following you then it's not going to help much.. a lot of players don't use suppressors becuase they make your gun terrible. If they made suppressors worth using then this could be more useful.. but still highly situational.

I just don't really see the Pay to win here. Nothing gives you enhanced damage for X amout of time or enhanced durability for X amount of time. The one boost that could have been potentially Pay to Win would have been the hp regen one, but it's only good outside combat... like a nanite self repair. Won't help you kill the guy shooting you in the face.

[Redshift]

Buying implants is really shit, i'm subbed and spend SC, and i still think this is BS, is inching towards P2W.
Also all these implants sound really crap, they all sound passive, make them all active so they at least require some skill to use.

[camycamera]

1wow, this is going to be a great update!

but a bit concerned with implants being bought with station cash and certs...

[Livefire]

Got to admit I don't like this implementation of Implants, I also don't like some of the implants.

Allow players to pick and choose between X implant slots awarded per level (as someone said earlier) and make them spend cert points to buy them. They should not have a shelf life or be consumable. Once you get it, you then have it forever and have to pick which one you want to use at the time and can only have one active at a time. Now of the list below:



EOD: as if it's not already easy to spot explosives.
Clear Vision: an implant that totally makes something else invalid?
Regeneration: Essentially this will become the default implant for people.
Sensor Shield: Should be infiltrator only.
Thermal Reduction: an implant that totally makes something else invalid?

Overall I think this is one of those back to the drawing board moments, wish we could have seen more of this before we heard about it coming in the next GU.

When it boils down to it though? A BR1 player can still kill a BR100 player even if they spent zero dollars, none of the above implants is going to give some massive advantage a free to play player cannot get. The game will always have the great equalizer of player skill.

If they are consumable they should use infantry resources just as grenades and mines do as you can say they have a built in battery that dies and then the implant needs replacement instead of the implant being powered off the soldiers own body energy as it was is PS1.

They should not be tied to your loadouts at all as an implant is implanted into the solder's body not the armor or weapons which is all that changes with different loadouts. Unless they are now saying that the implants are implanted into the armors now which does not make sense as the armors would just have these ability's as add on armor ability's and customizations we would pay for with certs like weapon add on's.

If they are not consumable and last forever they should cost certs or station cash then. But making them cost ether of these and be consumable is strait SOE breaking there promise with play to win mechanics being added to the game, being they give and are "suppose" to give a definite advantage.

As far as the actual implant abilities, I like them and I'm looking forward to using them (under the condition they change how you actually get them.)

[War Barney]

From what I hear this is also the patch they are using to make the jackhammer and C4 worthless =( I hope I at least get a refund as I'll obviously never use C4 again if it can't even kill the stuff that I need to risk my life sneaking up on then spending ages tossing the C4 (cos its got the slowest animation of anything ever).

[Timealude]

Got to admit I don't like this implementation of Implants, I also don't like some of the implants.

Allow players to pick and choose between X implant slots awarded per level (as someone said earlier) and make them spend cert points to buy them. They should not have a shelf life or be consumable. Once you get it, you then have it forever and have to pick which one you want to use at the time and can only have one active at a time. Now of the list below:



EOD: as if it's not already easy to spot explosives.
Clear Vision: an implant that totally makes something else invalid?
Regeneration: Essentially this will become the default implant for people.
Sensor Shield: Should be infiltrator only.
Thermal Reduction: an implant that totally makes something else invalid?

Overall I think this is one of those back to the drawing board moments, wish we could have seen more of this before we heard about it coming in the next GU.

When it boils down to it though? A BR1 player can still kill a BR100 player even if they spent zero dollars, none of the above implants is going to give some massive advantage a free to play player cannot get. The game will always have the great equalizer of player skill.

whats strange about the EOD implant is its pretty much saying, hey we are going to make everyone get a suit slot like the infiltrator if you want to pay money.

To me its just stange why they would add some of these. The emp and concussion ones are pretty much buying power so you arent effected by the grenades. Im not the one to shot P2W from the roof tops but this is just strange for them to do considering how strong some of these are.

[Cookiecrumbs]

Charging SC or Certs for Implants is a bogus deal. That is literally buying power for those who will spend SC, and for those who don't its a risk-reward to decide whether the implant is worth the cost of certs or not.

Not everyone is going to want to expend certs (which are ONLY for unlocking items) to purchase finite consumables that should rightly be bought with Infantry consumable resources or a special new "Cybernetics" resource.

It has been a bogus deal since it was announced, and it is still a bogus deal. This feels like a bigger grab for money than charging for extra loadouts. Making implants available through certs or SC only is counter-intuitive to a free to play with no "buying power" model.

It also sets the precedent for future consumables or aspects of gameplay to require SC or Certs. Repairing player base defenses, arming and operating a Skylance, etc. These are things that should either be free or require expendable resources, not certs or SC.


Oh and tie them to only unlock at a respectable battlerank. Categorize them , put them into tiers or something and grant them later in a toons progression. Give players something to strive for.

^
This pretty much covers my opinion on the matter.
I was in such a good mood after flying over the new Esamir earlier today, looking briefly at every new base (props to Xander Clauss and co.),
but the implementation of implants the way it's currently planned did this to my enthusiasm: :) -> :(

[torokf]

i was happy when i've read the effects, instead i wanted to puke after reading that they are temporary unlocks like boosts, i feel cheated and i really hope this won't make it live in the current Form.

i never ever before complained for a single feature/tweak in this game, but this makes me very angry at a first glance, i wonder if anyone can make me change idea about it

i'm now gonna read the thread, lol sorry for the rant

if those guy at SOE are really from the same Company that let's you lend a videogame to a friend then i still have hope they won't let this crap go Live.

p.s. can we sign a petition on this forum? :D

[PredatorFour]

Got to admit I don't like this implementation of Implants, I also don't like some of the implants.

Allow players to pick and choose between X implant slots awarded per level (as someone said earlier) and make them spend cert points to buy them. They should not have a shelf life or be consumable. Once you get it, you then have it forever and have to pick which one you want to use at the time and can only have one active at a time.

Pretty much this, or there's going to be a massive outcry selling implants. I think that's a nuts idea and i really think what they want in the game compared to what we, the playerbase wants, are two very different things.

[CrankyTRex]

Add me to the list of people who thinks the implant implementation is objectionable. PS2's already arguably on the wrong side of the P2W line, but this is pretty clearly over it.

I prefer that something like implants are either earned via rank or through actual specific gameplay objectives and then optional to slot as you like.

[Calista]

I think that's a nuts idea and i really think what they want in the game compared to what we, the playerbase wants, are two very different things.

I guess what SOE wants is more money and players don't want to spend as much as SOE would like? Maybe the game isn't meeting financial goals and they are starting to bend to selling power. I don't know but the idea of selling more and more items of temporary benefit to negate other's abilities is stretching it a bit far.

[Dragonskin]

I guess what SOE wants is more money and players don't want to spend as much as SOE would like? Maybe the game isn't meeting financial goals and they are starting to bend to selling power.

This is the part I don't like about implants being sold for SC. We have enough stuff sold for SC.. Exp boosts and Resource boosts... then all the cosmetic stuff... memberships for more perks. I would be happier if SOE wasn't blatantly trying to nickle and dime every new thing they come out with.

I don't agree with the pay to win argument, but I still think SOE needs to stop charging for EVERYTHING. That is all they seem to be doing lately. I bet the new ESF weapons are going to be SC or certs... like the 4 new infantry weapons. They need to make implants resource driven. Either create a new resource or tie it to infantry resources so people can buy them.. people with resources bonuses will still get them faster, but it's better than blatantly selling them for SC.

[Stomps]

Two faced is the term thats in my mind regarding implants. Oh no this game wont be pay2win, no we wont sell power for cash.

Yeah right.

[Methonius]

Yeah I agree with this being moderately pay to win. I was hoping implants got tied to battle rank that opened slots. So there was more to look forward to as you ranked up.

I guess it was only a matter of time before the p2w shit got into the game.

[TaintedPaladin]

If these acquisition methods for implants go through I'm done spending money on PlanetSide. Terrible idea to have us rent game mechanics.

[Ghoest9]

Here comes the cert whoring.

I dont think this is a great idea.

[Rahabib]

Ill reserve my indignation until I see the final costs, but this has the real potential to be a real slimey business model, and a final straw to a lot of people, including myself. I hope, the cert costs are very cheap!

[Sledgecrushr]

I think selling implants for sc is a pretty blatant pay 2 win scenario. The soe devs really need to reconsider this particular moneygrab.

[typhaon]

A lot of imbalance in the implant ideas.

Some seem fairly useless (EMP Shielding, Enhanced Targeting, etc.) - others very powerful (Sensor Shield, Thermal Reduction). I guess prices might dictate their use - but I think a few clear favorites will garner the bulk of player attention.

* And, yes, if they are only available for SC - it's a clear P2W move. <-- Nevermind.

Need to see cert prices to evaluate this better. Obviously it's something SOE hopes will ramp up the need for certs. Don't recall any particular great urge from the players for this stuff... and I imagine it's going to cause several balance issues - but we'll see....

** This is also where my patience with SOE wears thin... I subscribe - so I'm already paying $15/mo... I don't expect to have to pay $20... $25... $30+ to get the full experience in cosmetics/boosts/etc..

I suppose they have a business model that shows a small % will pay $50+ month or something and that outweighs people like myself that will just stop playing as the number of extra things they want me to pay for increases - but I feel justified to voice my frustration, anyway.

[OctavianAXFive]

Yea no.

I can't say that I approve of these new implants at all.

I'm with the crowd that wants them to be permanent purchases and interchangeable and available to all loadouts when purchased.

I think as has been pointed out, not all implants are created equal.

I think you can make this behave just like guns. Give all players a really simple default implant, let's say Safe Landing. Then from there do what you already do with guns and scale the SC/Cert ratio based on how good of an implant it is. (I should note I vehemently disapprove of this model in the first place. But since it's already status quo I'd take it over what's being proposed)

Example:
Auto-Spotter 250 Certs/ 700 SC
Health Regen 1000 Certs/ 700 SC

With that having been said, some of those implants are not ideal. I agree with Hamma that negating entire abilities is not a wise choice.

I think it's fair to say that this idea is wildly undercooked and the whole thing needs to be reconsidered.

I won't go so far as to say that implants will be pay2win but it's definitely a huge advantage not just to people willing to dish out constant money but also to players who play a lot and can constantly horde cert points for these implants.

Implants kind of remind me of raid potions in WoW. The people who play a ton will farm up cert points so that during Ops they can "pop their implants."

It's unclear when the implant is consumed. Higby says that it's per loadout. Does that mean that implants have to be bought and applied per loadout? Per class? Do you buy it once and then as you use it in any loadout/class a timer ticks away until it disappears from all loadouts/classes? How long do they last? 1 hour? 2 hours? 5? 12?

Hell, if you make implants 10 cert points for 2 hours I'd still consider that too much. It takes me a very long time to save and farm up certs for the better toys.

If I didn't know any better I'd say this is designed to indirectly boost SC sales.

I don't see even the most dedicated freemium players dropping SC consistently for something that lasts only a few hours. SoE is not stupid, they probably realize that too. Instead people will drop certs to constantly keep up their implant. The reason people will drop certs constantly for an implant is very simple. The implants offer immediate and very noticeable upgrades.

If I'm a free to player do I spend 30ish certs for large immediate upgrades every time I play or forgo those upgrades in favor of saving for high level upgrades for my medic heal gun? What if I want the TAR (250 Certs/700SC)? All of a sudden those 250 certs seem a might bit steeper than they once did.

The grind to getting new weapons and upgrades seems a lot steeper when faced with the prospect of dishing out certs for implants on a regular basis. And I'd do it too because those implants are clearly better than having a TAR, a great gun but ultimately a sidegrade. And what about the medic gun? Screw the last few upgrades I'm just going to rez you at 70% health because I'd rather save those certs for implants and other toys.

That's just an example but I hope you can see where I'm going. The implants are a designed cert drain which really hurts alts, casual and semi-casual players' ability to get high level unlocks. This game already has prohibitively obscene certification costs, this is just going to make it worse.

This will put a small but constant drain on their certs. The idea is that to compensate players will turn to boosts, SC purchases of weapons, and maybe even Premium Membership.

The reason we hate pay to win is because it's unethical. It's like in sports where you don't allow athletes to use steroids because then they might as well be playing in a league of their own. There is no competition, just the illusion of one. In order for players to compete in an environment with steroids all players must partake in the juicing. In video game terms, that means that in order for the spirit of fair competition to exist all players must take advantage of "unnatural" performance enhancement. If that enhancement is behind a paywall, then the game is no longer free. The non-juiced players are being played by the game instead of playing the game. They've been tricked and that's where the ethical boundary is.

This is not the case in Planetside 2. But I can't help but think that SoE is starting to skim the ethical boundaries with the recent to-do over resources and now with implants. I was already a bit sore with the idea of weapons being behind a pay wall and obscene cert costs but I let those slide because I still enjoyed the game and found it to be a relatively fair game.

But there comes a time when I'm not going to keep letting things slide. It may still be a fair game with the proposed implants but as someone who has been a paying customer, and a loyal (albeit new) community member, I can't help but feel resentment and that I'm starting to be taken advantage of.

I'll continue to play this game no matter their choice this patch. But for the devs that read these, consider this a warning call from a loyal player from a coveted demographic (loyal new fan fresh from Battlefield and willing to shill cash for the occasional doodad for the next few years). Normally I don't like to threaten to rage out or quit. I like being grumpily disgruntled about certain things but this proposed change is really starting to stretch my trust in SoE.

TL;DR
As my friend would alliterate "this is some shady shit."

[OCNSethy]

I tend to agree with Implants being linked to BR.

Its going to be a P2W free for all... if you have the cash / certs to spend.

Sad thing is, I suspect the majority of players will grab these so they dont feel disadvantaged by those that have them... a perfectly nasty little circle.

[Kail]

I really dislike the proposed implant implementation because using Certs for temporary items actively hurts your character advancement.

Grenades and Resources are not purchasable for SC because they confer actual combat power. The proposed implants do the same - either they need to only be available through in-game methods, or their implementation really needs to be redesigned.

Personally I'd be in favor of unlocking a particular kind of implant for certs/SC and then needing to spend resources to acquire charges of it (for sake of example, being able to use SC or Certs to unlock different types of grenades, but actually acquiring them requires spending in-game resources just as it does now). Then people can use their wallets to buy options faster but everyone is on the same ground for actual use & uptime.

[fierce deity]

As for everything except implants Great Patch! :thumbsup:

As for Implants,

I will wait until we see the costs and duration before I make my call on P2W. If they are cheap in certs like 50 certs for a month or something like that then fine.

I don't like most of the Implants themselves though.

Awareness: auto-spots enemies who damage you or that you damage
Why even bother with using a silencer and using cover effectively if the enemy will automatically be able to pinpoint your location when you shoot them. They already get an arrow pointing towards your direction. For players with excellent awareness already this will be the equivalent to an "I Win" button.
Battle Hardened: reduces camera shake from explosions and flinch
On the fence with this one. Could put people with low ROF weapons at a disadvantage, even in mid-long range fights.
Clear Vision: Protects against concussion and flash grenade
No, just no. A passive system that completely negates another weapons does not belong in this game. Every other hard counter Flares/Smoke/Aegis Shield/etc. requires active use of the ability/brainpower so this would just be too OP and imbalanced. I'd be fine if it reduced the effect, like not getting blurry vision from conc. grenades while retaining the motion reduction effect.
EMP Shielding: Protects against EMP Grenade effects
See above. ^^
Enhanced Targeting: increases the range that you can see enemy health bars and names
If it is just this then fine, but it apparently also increases IFF range to 25m. Auto IFF pretty much means Auto Spot.
EOD HUD: Allows you to detect enemy explosives in a short radius around you
Every Tank/Sundy driver will use this, rendering Tank Mines officially useless for anything except for suicide pizza delivery. Also, further screws over TR since it makes Claymores even more obvious.
Regeneration: Slowly regenerates health over time when not in combat
Fine, but only really useful for Infiltrators and LAs who are sneaking around by themselves. There's usually enough medics around that are more than willing to top you off.
Safe Landing: Reduces fall damage
Fine.
Sensor Shield: Makes you undetected on enemy radar/motion sensors
Great, so now a HA is a better infiltrator than an infiltrator.
Thermal Reduction: Prevents the wearer from being highlighted by thermal vision
If it only hides you from Vehicle Thermal, fine since it will only really be useful for individuals and wouldn't hide vehicles. If it hides you from the IRNV scope, then NO WAY. I don't want that Heavy standing 20 ft from me to suddenly disappear, or even worse not being able to see FRIENDLY troops in a crowded room. SOE would have just given griefers a legitimate reason for TKing people, as they could say I didn't see him through my scope.

These really need to be sent back to the drawing board or at the very least given drawbacks to use like Clear vision making you take more damage from any other grenade, or regen making you take slightly more damage per hit.

[Mordelicius]

Sensor Shield: Makes you undetected on enemy radar/motion sensors
*cough* bestseller *cough* depending on what the Awareness counter does. If it spots for everyone then it won't be as popular as anticipated.

Imo implants isn't much of a big a deal. The No-deploy Zone is far, far worse where Developer hands are encroaching on the actual gamespace.

These types of buffs are fairly normal in F2P open world pvp. The only difference here is that it's not purely cash shop but also available through certs.

[TheAadvark]

Star Citizen will save the disgruntled masses of PC players !

[OCNSethy]

Star Citizen will save the disgruntled masses of PC players !

Personally, Im awaiting TW:Rome 2, with baited breath :lol:

[DynamoECT]

I've always defended the game for having a good system of slight benefit for paying people without making it "only win if paying". I'll await the implementation but my first instinct is RENTING IMPLANTS = BS. If it turns out like I fear, a cynical milking exercise then that's the sort of breaking of the "psychological contract" which would make me stop membership on principle.

[Hyncharas]

Using SCs to purchase implants is an ill-conceived notion, typical of a free-to-play game supported in future development by premium content.

A better option would be to sell implants for 1,000 Certs, but then only allow players to make use of one at any time, and have a 6hr cooldown timer on using types swapped out to prevent players from exploiting them.

[typhaon]

Sensor Awareness has tons of OP potential - snipers will basically be perma-invis now... except for that fleeting moment they aren't stealthed - no chance to see them on radar... can't wait for that 'gameplay' style to expand!

Thermal Reduction: Sounds like something the Faerie class (aka Light Assault) would take if they want terrorize vehicles even more with C4... as if it isn't annoying enough, now - I can't wait to hear them in forums saying how "you were in your thermal scope - you n00b! - you aren't paying attention - ofc it's fair my C4 blew you vehicle!!!11!"

[Ruffdog]

I've always defended the game for having a good system of slight benefit for paying people without making it "only win if paying". I'll await the implementation but my first instinct is RENTING IMPLANTS = BS. If it turns out like I fear, a cynical milking exercise then that's the sort of breaking of the "psychological contract" which would make me stop membership on principle.

My Aurax would also be cancelled.

PSU seems to have a clear voice on this. And yet it's meant to hit live on GU13 next Wednesday??

[OctavianAXFive]

For the purpose of consistency, I should clarify something.

I think that an implant that reduces the amount of time someone is flashed/concussed or EMP'd is acceptable, even on a passive level.

However, I do not think it should stop it altogether.

I would be remiss if I also didn't take a moment to mention the fact that I did fly around Esamir.

I have the following suggestions for Esamir:

Specific Bases in no particular order:

Haven Outpost:

This is a weird base but in a good way. I like that you're trying to mix it up! However my one little comment is that it's extraordinarily vulnerable to shelling. Maybe consider throwing some AT/AA turrets around the base?

Terran BL-4 Crash Site:
Could use a few extra boxes of cover between the spawn room and objectives. Nothing major but a nice piece of cover could go a long way.

Nott Substation:

I noticed on a lot of the other bases you put cover over the control point. I' think you should stick with that trend and give this control point a little bit of (overhead) cover. I like that it's kind of out in the middle with no infantry level cover though.

Random Place I can't find again:

Okay so I know this sounds silly but I was examining this place when some VS pilot decided to take shoot me down and for the life of me I couldn't quite find it again but I'll explain what I was looking at.

It's a smaller base with the spawn room nestled against the side of a mountain with the purple spikes sticking out. The spawn room is at a slightly lower elevation than the rest of the base and has a giant boulder blocking LoS between the spawn room and the rest of the base.

The problem I was foreseeing is that because the spawn room is slightly below the rest of the base with a giant boulder in front, it would be extremely hard to break out of if an attacker put some LA's in the hills around it. The LAs would have perfect cover and a great field of view and it would be difficult for defending LA's counterattacking. The simple solution would be to maybe raise the spawn room a little bit or modify the terrain a bit to incorporate the larger spawn style of building (it's a small spawn building now). Again I can't remember this base by name but hopefully a dev will have a good idea of where I'm talking about.

General thoughts:

Walls! I like 'em and you put a lot of them in. Lots of cover and LOTS AND LOTS of variety, bravo! I noticed there's a trend of putting in little covered areas at the edge of bases that are perfect places to park a Sunderer.

The other thing I noticed is that the capture points are very heavily fortified. While not quite what I was hoping for in terms of defensibility, it's a huge step in the right direction and I can't wait to see if it works out in full scale conflict.

We'll see though. I still think the spawn room should be the last line of defense but it's clear that a lot of thought went into putting the spawn room in as uncampable a spot as possible. And where that failed you put a teleporter room to get around the base: clever!

Can't wait to play it and get the hell off of Indar.

Amerish was my favorite continent but these changes to Esamir...this is going to be glorious.

Ooo I almost forgot one other criticism.

I like where your head's at with base design, but give us more new buildings! That two story building with the two stair ways and upper deck is getting old fast! Start mixing it up more in the interior design of buildings. I know that's a pain in the ass and probably on your list of things to do eventually but just thought I'd mention it.

[EvilNinjadude]

Yea no.

I can't say that I approve of these new implants at all.

I'm with the crowd that wants them to be permanent purchases and interchangeable and available to all loadouts when purchased.

I think as has been pointed out, not all implants are created equal.

I think you can make this behave just like guns. Give all players a really simple default implant, let's say Safe Landing. Then from there do what you already do with guns and scale the SC/Cert ratio based on how good of an implant it is. (I should note I vehemently disapprove of this model in the first place. But since it's already status quo I'd take it over what's being proposed)

Example:
Auto-Spotter 250 Certs/ 700 SC
Health Regen 1000 Certs/ 700 SC

With that having been said, some of those implants are not ideal. I agree with Hamma that negating entire abilities is not a wise choice.

I think it's fair to say that this idea is wildly undercooked and the whole thing needs to be reconsidered.

I won't go so far as to say that implants will be pay2win but it's definitely a huge advantage not just to people willing to dish out constant money but also to players who play a lot and can constantly horde cert points for these implants.

Implants kind of remind me of raid potions in WoW. The people who play a ton will farm up cert points so that during Ops they can "pop their implants."

It's unclear when the implant is consumed. Higby says that it's per loadout. Does that mean that implants have to be bought and applied per loadout? Per class? Do you buy it once and then as you use it in any loadout/class a timer ticks away until it disappears from all loadouts/classes? How long do they last? 1 hour? 2 hours? 5? 12?

Hell, if you make implants 10 cert points for 2 hours I'd still consider that too much. It takes me a very long time to save and farm up certs for the better toys.

If I didn't know any better I'd say this is designed to indirectly boost SC sales.

I don't see even the most dedicated freemium players dropping SC consistently for something that lasts only a few hours. SoE is not stupid, they probably realize that too. Instead people will drop certs to constantly keep up their implant. The reason people will drop certs constantly for an implant is very simple. The implants offer immediate and very noticeable upgrades.

If I'm a free to player do I spend 30ish certs for large immediate upgrades every time I play or forgo those upgrades in favor of saving for high level upgrades for my medic heal gun? What if I want the TAR (250 Certs/700SC)? All of a sudden those 250 certs seem a might bit steeper than they once did.

The grind to getting new weapons and upgrades seems a lot steeper when faced with the prospect of dishing out certs for implants on a regular basis. And I'd do it too because those implants are clearly better than having a TAR, a great gun but ultimately a sidegrade. And what about the medic gun? Screw the last few upgrades I'm just going to rez you at 70% health because I'd rather save those certs for implants and other toys.

That's just an example but I hope you can see where I'm going. The implants are a designed cert drain which really hurts alts, casual and semi-casual players' ability to get high level unlocks. This game already has prohibitively obscene certification costs, this is just going to make it worse.

This will put a small but constant drain on their certs. The idea is that to compensate players will turn to boosts, SC purchases of weapons, and maybe even Premium Membership.

The reason we hate pay to win is because it's unethical. It's like in sports where you don't allow athletes to use steroids because then they might as well be playing in a league of their own. There is no competition, just the illusion of one. In order for players to compete in an environment with steroids all players must partake in the juicing. In video game terms, that means that in order for the spirit of fair competition to exist all players must take advantage of "unnatural" performance enhancement. If that enhancement is behind a paywall, then the game is no longer free. The non-juiced players are being played by the game instead of playing the game. They've been tricked and that's where the ethical boundary is.

This is not the case in Planetside 2. But I can't help but think that SoE is starting to skim the ethical boundaries with the recent to-do over resources and now with implants. I was already a bit sore with the idea of weapons being behind a pay wall and obscene cert costs but I let those slide because I still enjoyed the game and found it to be a relatively fair game.

But there comes a time when I'm not going to keep letting things slide. It may still be a fair game with the proposed implants but as someone who has been a paying customer, and a loyal (albeit new) community member, I can't help but feel resentment and that I'm starting to be taken advantage of.

I'll continue to play this game no matter their choice this patch. But for the devs that read these, consider this a warning call from a loyal player from a coveted demographic (loyal new fan fresh from Battlefield and willing to shill cash for the occasional doodad for the next few years). Normally I don't like to threaten to rage out or quit. I like being grumpily disgruntled about certain things but this proposed change is really starting to stretch my trust in SoE.

TL;DR
As my friend would alliterate "this is some shady shit."
Of all the posts I agree with, I think this is the one I want to quote.

I was in the Resource thread defending SOE by stating that F2Pers also get resources, if less. Now that Implants have been announced as Certs consumables, I'm sorta reluctant to keep doing so.

Shady shit indeed. I'm really enthusiastic about the idea of tying them to Battle Ranks and making them one-time certs. Reminds me of WoW, you know? Glyphs, or whatever they were. Do that, won't you? It encourages people to play longer.
Please, for the love of nanites, don't put this live as it is. I'll keep playing, but I'll be more grumpy than before. And I don't like playing while grumpy.

[Boomzor]

This suggested incarnation of implants may be a baby step, but there's no denying it's a step down on the slippery slope.

*not* acceptable.

[TheAadvark]

Personally, Im awaiting TW:Rome 2, with baited breath :lol:

Have you seen the scale and intricacies of Star Citizen ? That game is glorious AND they are now implementing fps mechanics when you board a rival player or NPC's ship !

On the implant things they should be Battle Rank unlocked and cert only. So it's a sense of achievement when you finally get them.

We can argue forever and ever, bottom-line Dev's screwed up didn't look hard enough at PS1 mechanics, and they will and are paying for it in terms of new players. The biggest threat is BF4 coming out now and I am 100% sure that game will steal thousands of the kinds of players that got bored of BF3 and were looking for something new, with the screwed up schedule we won't see those players log any substantial time in Planet side nor money because of all of EA's bullshit DLC's. A lot of people will be gone at least a good 6 months of real life time, just because of BF4's progression system (you know it !) and I have to admit superior shooting mechanics and glorious audio. Battle Ranks or "Progression" should mean something in this god damn game.
Even Dead-pool knows that ! :P

But at the end of the day they are bound to get it right, although will it be in time (cue introspective music).

[EvilNinjadude]

Have you seen the scale and intricacies of Star Citizen ? That game is glorious AND they are now implementing fps mechanics when you board a rival player or NPC's ship !

On the implant things they should be Battle Rank unlocked and cert only. So it's a sense of achievement when you finally get them.
/noted

Yes, definitely the BR/Certonce variant.

Btw, what cert prices are you thinking about? 500? 1000? 2000? Constant or variable?

[Carbon Copied]

Personally I would've liked to see implants linked into the resource system and a tradeskill style element applied - before the "dafuq" is unleashed the basic premise would be that tech plants/bio labs/amp stations are used for specific "combine categories" - and in the warp gates you can create the baselines. Nothing complex or boring like "gather 10 rocks and sit clicking buttons" - more so using a tech room terminal to initiate the combine progress bar and "payment" of resources, generating a reason to hold onto and fight over the main POI's. Stops people purchasing on the fly for a quick ethic tightrope of pay2win.
More to it - but kind of pointless getting intricate as it isn't going to happen and probably not wanted by the "I want it now" gamer.

Feels half baked, not properly thought out (at least not on a "we have the chance to do something new and different" level) and personally rather lacklustre. End of the day its a consistent, cheap to produce and maintain cash cow and SOE are going to milk everyone lapping it up.

[artifice]

I am definitely labeling this game as pay to win.

This suggested incarnation of implants may be a baby step, but there's no denying it's a step down on the slippery slope.

*not* acceptable.

Slippery slope? This is off the cliff. You can buy straight up power via the implants.

[CrimsonTemplar]

I don't know what was wrong with the purchase of certs in PS1. As you gained BR you gained unlocks for certifications. This rewards those who have played the game for a while. Each certification consumed 'energy' from you, making them a finite, but reliable, resource to use. I don't like the idea of purchasing a consumable implant for SC or certs. My solution is the following;

At every 20 Battle Ranks, you get access to an implant slot. Clean and simple.

Matt and the rest of the PS2 team, if you put the implants in as stated, the game will become unbalanced toward the casual player who doesn't spend SC or certs on these items. You will alienate a good chunk of your player base by doing implants this way. Honestly, I say you need to scrap this model and go back to the drawing board. I know I'm too little too late, but it needs to be said.

In PS1, you gained an implant slot, every six BRs until you reached BR 18. I wouldn't mind a similar system, albeit with a reduced BR ranking requirement. Say every 12 or 14 BRs. As for Implants costing Certs and SC, I'll reserve judgment until they're in. My guess is they'll be around the prices of 20-30 Certs and 30-50 SC, equivalent to Auraxium costs with their beta counterparts.

[almalino]

I'm casual player and spend like 4-6 hours per week during weekend to play the game. During those hours I earn about 500-600 Cert points with 6 months XP boost activated for SC.

Those 600 CP points barely enough to upgrade my soldier and vehicles. Usually I upgrade 1 item 1 step at 1 week (very slow , I know, but I do not have certs for upgrades).


Now Implants. With so few cert points per week to get Implants for me the only way is to buy with SC. I would not mind to buy those if there is no expiration period. But there is and I feel I'm screwed as a casual player though I will continue playing the game because it still feels great and keeps my attention. Hopefully those "pay to win" implants will not switch my attention to other FPS game.

[capiqu]

I'm sure it's been said but my opinion, Don't like the cert, station cash for implants. I don't see myself spending money on implants when I'm already a premium member for no other reason than to help the game I love.
I sure would hate someone countering something I could do by earning it in game by someone who buys an ability. This may well be something that ends my 11 year old Planetside experience. The farthest I may go is buy it if i can keep it.

[Dragonskin]

Definitely like the idea of unlocking an implant via certs or SC, but paying for upkeep of the implant once unlocked with resources. Having a continual cert dump or SC dump for a boost like these doesn't jive with me. I'm a paying customer and have spent plenty on the game, but I'm not going to buy implants that I have to keep spending money on... screw that. I don't plan to buy boosters once my Alpha squad runs out.. the subscription provides me more than enough benefits by itself. I made due with the meager 10% buff the original Alpha squad booster gave just fine and only got the subscription when queue times went through the roof a few months ago.

I also like the idea of tying implant unlocks to BR ranks. Something that might actually get me to focus on 1 character for longer. Right now at BR52 on my VS... since I am not a huge vehicle player anymore... the only unlocks I look forward to getting are the few 500 cert or 1,000 cert final tier upgrades for flak armor, nanoweave and some abilities.... not a huge incentive for me to keep playing because while those last tiers are nice, they aren't game changing. They are more of a luxury tier in my opinion.

If I could see a BR tiered unlock worth striving for then I could see my interest in getting my VS to 100 being a lot higher. I like playing on my lower BR characters because there are more things to unlock at the moment.

[Dodgy Commando]

Anyone else notice the 6/24 date?

Implants are looking contentious, I'll reserve judgement until we know more on cost/duration.

However, there was very little feedback on how Implants were going to be implemented until now. It feel s a little too late personally; I'm not going to cry out 'conspiracy!', but it feels like they are pushing it out on us too fast and without choice.

Slippery slope indeed...

[Angrytortoise]

Pretty blatantly pay to win, love this game but probably cancel my membership if the implant implementation isn't changed. Implants aside this looks like a nice update, Esamir redesign looks really well done.

[AThreatToYou]

Implants should be permanent and costless aside from BR, but have a limited number of slots.

I would, however, enjoy investigation into Implants being tied to base benefits. i.e. No bio lab, no implants. This would go with a system where implants cost resources to plant on your solider after you buy them, like the other consumable items.

[hashish]

All i can say is im quite disappointed in the decisions taken by SOE on things like implants.. Its like they don't listen to the community AT ALL !! What a bullshit version of implants :( Im defiantly not buying that crap..

[ItZMuRdA]

I personally would prefer a permanent upgrade model for implants as well, but considering that is a major shift in design direction, I think one simple change would make me much happier with them also:

Treat them like single use camos used to be, or even enchants in WoW if you want to make that analogy. Keep them consumable, but remove the timer. Let them be purchased relatively inexpensively on a per-loadout basis, but they should last forever or until swapped with a different implant, at which point you'd have to purchase another if you wanted to change back. It keeps the underlying idea that SOE has proposed for them, but removes a good bit of the frustration associated with it, imo.

[hashish]

I personally would prefer a permanent upgrade model for implants as well, but considering that is a major shift in design direction, I think one simple change would make me much happier with them also:

Treat them like single use camos used to be, or even enchants in WoW if you want to make that analogy. Keep them consumable, but remove the timer. Let them be purchased relatively inexpensively on a per-loadout basis, but they should last forever or until swapped with a different implant, at which point you'd have to purchase another if you wanted to change back. It keeps the underlying idea that SOE has proposed for them, but removes a good bit of the frustration associated with it, imo.

Yes that would actually be great Itz, But unfortunatly SOE don't like to listen o the community and instead just wanna squeeeze out as much money from people as possible at the expense of ruining planetside :mad:

[ChipMHazard]

Yes that would actually be great Itz, But unfortunatly SOE don't like to listen o the community and instead just wanna squeeeze out as much money from people as possible at the expense of ruining planetside :mad:

Oh, nonsense. Of course they listen, doesn't mean that they are going to do as we want all of the time. Of course in order for the devs to take feedback seriously it does have to be constructive.

[Fenrys]

Any number of certs for a temporary buff is too many. The price can't be low enough. 1 cert per hour is one cert that should have been invested into something permanent but was instead wasted on a temporary buff.

So buying them with certs is not an option.

That leaves SC. Directly buying power for money, as in the proposed implant update, is where I draw the line and uninstall.

[Rahabib]

well... I remember when the initial XP to cert costs came out and everyone was up in arms. Then they lowered the number of XP per cert after hearing the forums blow up. I hope they do the same here.

resources would make better sense for temporary implants, but thats all screwed up right now, and you can essentially buy resources anyway with boosts.

[EvilNinjadude]

The farthest I may go is buy it if i can keep it.
I will not dish out money for things I can't keep. I mean, why else would I be playing F2P? If I wanted to pay regularly to keep doing things I want to do, I'd pay subscription, not go F2P.

[torokf]

My Aurax would also be cancelled.

PSU seems to have a clear voice on this. And yet it's meant to hit live on GU13 next Wednesday??

they only announced them Yesterday, and from what i know the vast majority of brained players have taken a side against this state of things, we shall be heard by SOE!

i have faith they are there to help us help them herp, not to backstab us after 9 months of loyal service and $$$

THERE IS STILL HOPE!
if they can get out clean of this they will gain even more respect by me, but sure thing i'll be scared of the future lol

I will not dish out money for things I can't keep. I mean, why else would I be playing F2P? If I wanted to pay regularly to keep doing things I want to do, I'd pay subscription, not go F2P.


this, and doesn't matter if i'm br100 or lower, i'm not paying for something temporary, except xp boosts and subscribes

[Sentrosi]

One thing I dislike reading threads like this is that there are people screaming, "OMG! THIS SUCKS!" and "I'LL NEVER PLAY THIS GAME AGAIN! EVER!!!!"

Instead of bemoaning and criticizing, offer up a solution. If you don't like something, by all means, say something about it. But offer up a solution. That's all I'm saying.

[Artalion]

Any number of certs for a temporary buff is too many. The price can't be low enough. 1 cert per hour is one cert that should have been invested into something permanent but was instead wasted on a temporary buff.

So buying them with certs is not an option.

That leaves SC. Directly buying power for money, as in the proposed implant update, is where I draw the line and uninstall.

I don't think you've considered the advantages of having the implant. Suppose that it does cost one cert and the implant lasts one hour. Now suppose that having said implant allows me to increase my score per hour by five percent.

Now, my score per hour is 10432. This is roughly 41 certs an hour. Suppose that this implant improves my score by five percent, this changes it so that I earn 43 certs an hour. Which means that the implant has not only paid for itself, but has increased the certs I wouldn't have earned otherwise.

If it increases my efficiency by three percent, I break even.

Something else to keep in mind about these implants is that SOE is pretty good about tweaking things. So even if they are grossly OP at release, they probably won't stay that way for very long. SOE isn't always able to get things right on the first pass, but they do have a history of listening and refining things. The best thing about implants being temporary is that they can be easily removed from the game if there are problems, like game breaking balance issues.

So, let's give it a shot and see how it works.

[Sentrosi]

So exploit the vulnerability until it's patched.

Got it.

[EvilNinjadude]

I personally would prefer a permanent upgrade model for implants as well, but considering that is a major shift in design direction, I think one simple change would make me much happier with them also:

Treat them like single use camos used to be, or even enchants in WoW if you want to make that analogy. Keep them consumable, but remove the timer. Let them be purchased relatively inexpensively on a per-loadout basis, but they should last forever or until swapped with a different implant, at which point you'd have to purchase another if you wanted to change back. It keeps the underlying idea that SOE has proposed for them, but removes a good bit of the frustration associated with it, imo.
I suggested they should unlock like Glyphs (tied to BR) and other people suggested binding them to loadouts like one-time-use camos used to be.


And I'm completely find with both solutions. Whether we can equip 1 implant or 3, I just wanna pay for it once and get it over with.

This idea (1 per loadout) is also currently trending on the official forums. We might have a solution here, folks!
50 Certs per loadout? 100? Or is it too early to think about this?

(I'm surprised none of the devs have responded yet. I hope they're reading and debating.)

[PredatorFour]

I suggested they should unlock like Glyphs (tied to BR) and other people suggested binding them to loadouts like one-time-use camos used to be.





Absolutely , i think it's a great idea to tie them to BR like the original. There is one problem though and that is the free to play model. They banged on for months before release saying how it wont be pay to win and that a BR 1 could take on a BR 100 with the stock loadouts and win. Now a BR 100 has an advantage over a BR 1 with implants so it would go against what they say when they are marketing the game. Infact the whole free to play model is ironically the downfall of the game for me, i mean it's great but at the same time it's held back so much by the shackles that come with it.

[Vashyo]

I don't like the implants either, it offers a handy skill for people with money or certs to burn at the expense of newer players who have...nothing and cant afford better stuff in ages.

They better be dirt cheap atleast, like 25 certs or less.

[Blynd]

If the devs impliment the sc/cert payment for the implants its not the way to go it will show people thy this game is most deffinetley pay 2 win

[rhilir]

esimer is not ready on the test server even. they added part of the lattice system but not the system. So on test server everyone gets 0 resources of everything. Battles don't last long before everyone is done.

[KesTro]

My Aurax would also be cancelled.

PSU seems to have a clear voice on this. And yet it's meant to hit live on GU13 next Wednesday??

The devs seems to pay attention to PSU, and the community is doing an excellent job in asserting their stand against these implants. The only thing we could do more is hit up their twitter or Reddit.

[Biscuit]

posted my stance on this on mmorpg.com might as well post it here too:

Here is my feedback and stance-
I do not support this at all, No amount of tweaking, implant resistance will null the problem. further more for the implants to be temporary, which makes the player have to get more - even if they are given the option of applying certs to gain their temporary implants. casual players who
A. do not have the time
B. do not have the income
or
A AND B, do not have the time and income

will be at a disadvantage. and when implants end up getting nerfed to uselessness due to constant tweaking to even the playing field, then what?

imo, have implants be Cert only. that way if they do get tweaked to oblivion, then SC wont be involved, and can open up the possibility of having permanent style of implants, which can be switched out. and yes i am also against temporary implants.

I Vouch for more planetside 1 style of implants, but instead of 3 slots 1 slot would suffice.
if they INSIST in having implants be tied into SC, then get rid of the temporary timer. Respect the Line SOE.

2nd post==

Will it be game breaking?

the potential is there depending on how they do the adjustments. but even if its not game breaking, It will dull one of their main philosophies of "5 minute player can compete with a 5 year player"

will it make players with money invincible? no, they will still be killed like anyone else, but again - this is a balancing act that should be done with extreme care, otherwise all their goodwill and work will be destroyed, and I would hate to see that happen all because they want to push the envelope on how much SC they can squeeze out from their userbase.

keep implants to Certs only, it'll put people closer on level to everyone else vs. having the option to pay for their implants via SC.
If people fight for their Certs on the battlefield, THAT by itself would be a form of passive resource collecting.
Or they could tie it in with Outfits, giving the option of members to donate their Certs into a outfit pool to grab their implants that way, esspecially if they are the ones that capture contested bases.
Or have implants be tied into Amp stations, giving that base a purpose of a valuable asset to capture and most of all defend. or knock out their generator to deny implant usage.
these arent fully thought out ideas, but i rather see a alternative of having and caring for obtaining implants that do not involve throwing down 80 bucks of real money.

[torokf]

i'd say variable price for permanent unlocks, spacing 500/750/1000 certs for each implant on each class, that's too much you say?
I heard this game should last until 2025 right? we have plenty of time to unlock them all until then heh

:P

so you can start by unlocking one single implant for each class, and then you might think about buying multiple ones and switching them, with a big cooldown between one and another, seriously this is the way ffs, make them cost 250/500/700 SC aswell and you're done, SOE makes an abnormal income of $$$ and we get our permanent implants with limitations to their use and they'll be very slow to unlock so it's not like the whole player base will rampage with implants wasting the metagame, (a few ones are too good imho and should have a "reduced effectiveness of" rather than "immune to thermal/radar" etc. etc.)

am i too biased by being BR100 and having the chance to save my Certs for such expensive permanents implants or anyone agrees?

P.S. i wish we could have some kind of interview with Higby or someone else at SOE when a feature of this caliber is presented, the director's letter wasn't enough, a good explanation explaining the meaning behind this, telling us out of the teeth if this is a business move or if thought out of proper debating about gameplay implications, meh :(
why do we have to debate and get scared that hard when you can dissipate all our doubts with fast and clear statements?

"The implants are designed to give unique benefits that allow players to further refine their role & personal play-style without imparting an over-the-top player-power benefit."

This ain't enough!

i have friends already yelling at zomg unninstall herp da derp, Ok they aren't the smartest kind but yet they are paying customers of your game SOE.

aren't you from the same SONY which smashed the XBOX at the latest E3 about not being dumbasses with lame drm mechanics and stuff?

Help us

#YOLODRAMA

[basti]

Well, to put it down rather easy:

If implants go in, Basti goes out.

There is a fine line before an F2P game becomes just unplayable. Planetside 2 was never the perfect, fair F2P, as such a game would propably not work at all (gotta need to do some cash somehow. ;) ). It was however faily moderate in the whole F2P area (talking about the business model, not the gamplay, that is stellar). Not to much Power sold, not to little gainable only via in game means without cash, htings were good.

Then the resource price changes came along, and we pushed a bit into the directon of Pay to Win. But the resource system is due to an overhaul, so theres nothing to worry really. Given they actually removed the resource bonus from the 3 and 6 months heroic boosts, and talk about them concidering adding NTU to the game as the new resource system, it is save to say that they plan for a drastic overhaul. So even while its right now a bit borderline with the resource system, its on its way out it seems, and thats good.


But Implanets? In this implementation, they cross the line. Not even just by a litte, its more like a full speed drive with a F1 car right across the line, straight into the night of Pay To win.


"But you can buy them with certs!"


Yea, doesnt help, makes it worse actually.

Certs are rare. Not for you, the guy who spend 25 hours a day killing dudes, but for every new player, and everyone that only plays for a month, and didnt spend money to buy Weapons. Even with a subscription, Cert income is to low to deck yourself out anytime soon. Heck, im playing since release and i still have a ton of stuff i want to unlock, and I spend a crapton of cash on weapons! If they force a cert sink onto me now, its bad for me. If they force that cert sink onto someone who doesnt have boost + subscription (they get half of what i get!), then its very bad. If they force that cert sink onto a new player, its just to much.


"But Sidegrades"


Thats the thing, they are not. They are upgrades, situational upgrades, yes, but still upgrades. The only other time this happend in Planetside 2 was during the rocket pod days, where you simply HAd to get them to farm infantary like crazy. But the Lolpods got nerfed for good, and default Afterburn fueltank is getting an upgrade, making it more useful, and propably even a real concideration for Dogfighting pilots.



So, thats it. If this goes in, im gone for good. There is a line that shall never be crossed by any legit Free to Play title. This is said line. Do not cross it. If you do, you may get hit by a train, destination COMMUNITY RAGE.




:)

[Palerion]

Yeah, I'm in the same boat as Hamma. They should be bought with certs and should not be consumable, but permanent.

[torokf]

so many good posts in this Forum, i love you PSU, we explained the issues quite well i'd say, now we only have to wait for a SOE response before Next week :)

i'm with you Basti

[Hamma]

One thing I dislike reading threads like this is that there are people screaming, "OMG! THIS SUCKS!" and "I'LL NEVER PLAY THIS GAME AGAIN! EVER!!!!"

Instead of bemoaning and criticizing, offer up a solution. If you don't like something, by all means, say something about it. But offer up a solution. That's all I'm saying.

^^^^ This exactly. Offer constructive criticism backed up with logic for maximum impact.

[OctavianAXFive]

I personally would prefer a permanent upgrade model for implants as well, but considering that is a major shift in design direction, I think one simple change would make me much happier with them also:

Treat them like single use camos used to be, or even enchants in WoW if you want to make that analogy. Keep them consumable, but remove the timer. Let them be purchased relatively inexpensively on a per-loadout basis, but they should last forever or until swapped with a different implant, at which point you'd have to purchase another if you wanted to change back. It keeps the underlying idea that SOE has proposed for them, but removes a good bit of the frustration associated with it, imo.

Enchantments and Glyphs in WoW were a part of the player economy and while necessary for end-game progression, there were multiple, cheaper tiers of the most used glyphs and enchantments available to casual players.

In Planetside you can't do that because then you're necessarily creating a division between competitors based on money and time (read cert volume), something that you want to avoid.

In this case you have a consumable that is a major upgrade while acting as a certification sink. Why? Why do we need to sink certs? The reason things like gold sinks exist in WoW is to curb inflation in the player markets. We don't have a player market. Certs aren't currency, they're talent points.

The underlying concept is that implants are a cert sink. That concept is flawed and in this case bordering on unethical. The sanctity of the free to player must be protected.

If they are an in-game resource sink, then that's something else and requires slightly different considerations.

[Sledgecrushr]

I have been a huge fan of this game. There is so much potential here it just oozes awesomeness. And they have this opportunity to do something awesome with implants and enhance everyones gameplay but they are going the pay 2 win route instead. If this goes in then I am also going out.

[OCNSethy]

No implants for GU13... Smed has pulled the plug on them :)

http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?t=56008

[Hyncharas]

Whilst a lot of people are against them being consumable, I can understand it given players will want to buy multiple implants and just have them on hand forever; something more akin to an armor camo.

However, perhaps the nature of of how they work should be more on the principle of boosters. On this basis, a player would buy whatever implants they wanted, and then each would last for three months from the time of purchase, whether they use them or not, before they needed to purchase them again.

In this manner they would still be a consumable, but people wouldn't immediately lose access to them after a few days of neglect and would fit Hamma's statement of "something you would have to pay for periodically", to maintain development revenue.

[Shogun]

consumable implants are a gamebreaker for me.

no matter how long they last!
those things are powerful and playstyle changing. and i don´t want to be locked out of my playstyle when i don´t have certs to renew it.

soe doesn´t need to monetize EVERY single thing they put into the game.
implants are part of the core planetside game, and are missing due to the premature release of the game. they are not an add on that has to be sold.

soe´s (already broken) promise was: "all items that give additional power are ONLY achievable with certs, sidegrades will be achievable with certs OR money, and only cosmetic items will be money only"

implants give power and are therefore not compatible with SC.

[Sledgecrushr]

If soe is already making good money from this game then why not make implants free for everyone.

[ColdCheese]

Why does this game need implants in the first place, just because it was in PS1?
PS1 didn't have so called MLG aspirations and implants (legal hacks) throws so many variables and guess work into a game where ttk already varies wildly because of Nanoweave and composite armor etc, why throw in another monkey wrench into the gameplay balance.

Theres already games with that crap like COD perks, i thought PS2 was trying to distinguish itself from games like those. This game needs more depth to give it longevity not less, if it wants to be like those other games then its going to die soon as the next BF or cod game comes out. Focus on metagame to make ps2 another class of fps instead of just another fast food shooter that everyone abandons soon as the next new shiny thing comes along.

[Ruffdog]

https://twitter.com/mhigby/status/359446905010401280

Looks like we have an update tomorrow morning west coast time.

[Sledgecrushr]

I heard that harasser composite armor is getting nerfed. Can anyone confirm this?

[LeilaniRock]

I heard that harasser composite armor is getting nerfed. Can anyone confirm this?

Already on the testserver. Reduced resistances to small arms fire iirc.Sry,can't remember exact numbers as i am on my phone atm.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[EvilNinjadude]

Already on the testserver. Reduced resistances to small arms fire iirc.Sry,can't remember exact numbers as i am on my phone atm.
Harasser Tuning
Stock resistance to small arms fire reduced from 85% to 80%
Composite Armor bonus reduced from 6/12/18/24 % to 5/10/15/20
Adjusted the pitch angle on several of the Harasser weapons so that the player could aim lower to the ground.

[VGRA]

[Hamma]

Looks like the patch is still on track.

https://twitter.com/mhigby/status/359813666268385284

And it will be large:

https://twitter.com/mhigby/status/359814819114778625

[antiheld]

The first real ps2 continent, 8 month after release :P

[o Solei o]

The first real ps2 continent, 8 month after release :P

Nope. (Sadly.) Just redoing the lattice lanes and rearranging some bases on Esamir. Hossin and Nexus are being sneak previewed at SOE Live.

[Timealude]

Nope. (Sadly.) Just redoing the lattice lanes and rearranging some bases on Esamir. Hossin and Nexus are being sneak previewed at SOE Live.

it honestly might as well be another continent.