So is C4 getting nerfed or not?

[mrmrmrj]

I have read a few people alleging this. We need details.

[EvilNinjadude]

Nope. (https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/new-c4-damage-to-tanks-video.141229/page-36#post-1977515)

[KarrdeBRBU]

C4 better not be getting nerfed. C4 is really not a problem. First, it's crazy expensive. Second, it goes away when you respawn (which I think is silly). Instead they should just give the detonator a much smaller range so you have to be close enough to use it. Ergo I die before detonating it on that sundy, I need to get back into the same close range to blow it. You shouldn't lose 200 res like that. Third it takes quite a long time once dropped to actually detonate it.

Yes, it one shots MAX Suits. This is not OP considering what a MAX can do. Also it's a good counter to a MAX with engineers all over them. The only other serious threats to a MAX are Decimators and stock launchers in groups. Also, observant MAXes can easilly get out of the way before detonation. The problem is most people simply are oblivious.

Yes it can one shot tanks with 2 bricks (200 res btw). Again, this is not a problem. If you're standing still long enough for me to jump off the base/hill/mountain, jump jet down, plant 2 c4, and get to a safe distance before blowing you up, you deserved it for making really bad decisions. Keep moving. At best, if you move, I'm gonna get you with one brick if I'm well positioned.

Long/short, C4 is a powerful tool. It's also crazy expensive to use on a regular basis. Also a lot of kills with it are on people who simply lack the situational awareness to see what I'm doing, and I'm not exactly being subtle about it.

*edit*

Also, overall, I think the game, barring some silly changes made in the last while, is actually very well balanced at this stage. Now I wish more players would stop FotM/4th factioning and actually join TR on Matherson so the pops get better evened out.

[Canaris]

Not.............. yet :doh:

[Rahabib]

Things like this generally get put in the patch notes after the fact. So its anyone's guess at this point. I don't believe there are any changes on the PTS, but then again, I never used the PTS to tell you :)

[AuntLou]

Yeah I agree C4 is fine as is. Not sure who's bright idea it was to nerf it.

[mrmrmrj]

I agree it doesn't need to be adjusted. I probably die more often trying to place it than I get kills with it.

[typhaon]

For the love of Auraxis...

Everyone is OBSERVANT! The FOV is only so big. You can only look in so many places at once. It takes all of an instant for a LA to drop down - sprint - fly over to you, toss a C4 and BOOM!

I don't really have a problem with it vs. MAX units... it's a counter and though it can be annoying as #@$% - I get it.

I do find it problematic vs. MBT, though.

A class that flies, uses shotguns, sprints, and drops mega-bombs.... it's a bit much.

[Rahabib]

IMO, damage could go down a bit. I think 2 should make the vehicle smoke not gib. That way the driver can/has to get out and the LA has to kill the driver. Its a bit more fair but 2 will still get you points if you can take out the driver (likely an engy) trying to fix it.

[Geist]

https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/new-c4-damage-to-tanks-video.141229/page-36#post-1977515

Test build caught some changes that were being worked on. There are no changes to C4 planned to go live. We are going to be improving the proximity radar though, so that it's better as a defensive tool against people rushing the tank.

[Palerion]

For the love of Auraxis...

Everyone is OBSERVANT! The FOV is only so big. You can only look in so many places at once. It takes all of an instant for a LA to drop down - sprint - fly over to you, toss a C4 and BOOM!

I don't really have a problem with it vs. MAX units... it's a counter and though it can be annoying as #@$% - I get it.

I do find it problematic vs. MBT, though.

A class that flies, uses shotguns, sprints, and drops mega-bombs.... it's a bit much.

Yeah, a class that sprints? That's just ridiculous.

But really it's a hard maneuver to pull off. If an MBT is not observant and is camping somewhere stationary, it deserves to blow up. If a sundy is not being defended, same deal.

[Ghoest9]

Im sure it will be nerfed because its fun and not over powered.




Basically its going to eventually be nerfed because dudes in tanks whine - even though the infantry guy probably dies and fails 3 ouit
2 of 4 times he tris to use it.

[typhaon]

Yeah, a class that sprints? That's just ridiculous.

But really it's a hard maneuver to pull off. If an MBT is not observant and is camping somewhere stationary, it deserves to blow up. If a sundy is not being defended, same deal.

LA has extra speed.

If you were not aware, sorry.

[typhaon]

Im sure it will be nerfed because its fun and not over powered.




Basically its going to eventually be nerfed because dudes in tanks whine - even though the infantry guy probably dies and fails 3 ouit
2 of 4 times he tris to use it.

If an infantry guy rushing a tank/sundy kills it 1 or 2 times out of 4... then Tanks/Sunderers are massively UP.

[Palerion]

LA has extra speed.

If you were not aware, sorry.

If you were not aware, an LA has to give up his suit slot for extra sprint speed, and even then the speed increase is mild at best. It's not like the LA comes and goes at the speed of a flash. It just gives MBTs and sundies something to think about when they farm infantry, camp spawns, and park too close to the enemy. Again, a sundie or tank that doesn't see it coming probably deserves to blow up.

[Rolfski]

The single thing that makes C4 balanced is the annoying delay between throwing and setting it off.

[Ghoest9]

If an infantry guy rushing a tank/sundy kills it 1 or 2 times out of 4... then Tanks/Sunderers are massively UP.

So you dont actually play the game do you?
You will NEVER kill a tank by rushing it.

You either have to flank and sneak up in cover.
Or find an idiot driver who parks beside building(just like RL going close to building you dont control is crazy dangerous in a tank.)

It actually is takes some skill to sneak up on a tank and even then you die instead of the tank more often than not(like 3 out 4 times.)


Good tank crews who work in pairs or squads essentially never die to C4.

[phungus]

I don't see why C4 should be changed at all.


Edit:
...You will NEVER kill a tank by rushing it.

You either have to flank and sneak up in cover.
Or find an idiot driver who parks beside building(just like RL going close to building you dont control is crazy dangerous in a tank.)

It actually is takes some skill to sneak up on a tank and even then you die instead of the tank more often than not...

Ghost9 pretty much covers it here. I use a tank the least of any class, along with medic, but I do roll tanks often enough, and I pull sunderers all the time. Every time my tank has been blown up by C4 it happened because I was close to a building (as Ghooest9 states) or I have been in a mass of infantry where if the C4 hadn't gotten me the HA rockets were about to. Every time I have died to C4, in a MAX, in a tank, or even the one time someone got me with drifter jets in the canyons of Indar in my Lib, every single time I have died to C4 it has been because of errors I made or excellent play by my opponent, I have never once thought C4 was overpowered on battlefield.

[Kirotan]

I am fine either way with the current or proposed change. 2 bricks on the test server at the time put an MBT into the red, like a sunderer. You'd have to be patient and hide or look for a wounded MBT. This would make it harder, but C4'ing a tank in the middle of a fight, even if you didn't destroy it, is seriously crippling and makes a difference.

I think the real problem is drop pods, with people landing on tanks and planting c4 before there's time to react (or even having the drop podder render!).

[phungus]

I think the real problem is drop pods, with people landing on tanks and planting c4 before there's time to react (or even having the drop podder render!).

Ugh, drop pods. They are also the bain of liberators. And yeah, the ability to kill a tank before you render by using a pod is arguably broken. Did you know ESFs can stop drop pods dead though? Just a couple ESFs can completely stop a platoons' worth of drop pods, I've seen a few battles won this way but surprisingly very few outfits or pilots themselves know how to or bother to use the ESF as a drop pod interceptor.

[camycamera]

i read on the official forums that on the test server MTB's and lightnings had their health buffed again, so putting 2 C4 on an MBT will just set it on fire, and putting it on a lightning will set it on fire with only 5 seconds to get out to repair it or something. i haven't tried it myself because i cant be fucked downloading 6 gb with of updates on the test server, so yeah, hop on the test to confirm this.

[typhaon]

LOL.

Has the current cheese tactic of beacons being dropped and squads podding down and C4'ing entire armor groups not made it to your server, yet?

If not... consider yourselves lucky.

No amount of this magical AWARENESS you think people in tanks just lack is going to save you from this.

[Palerion]

That's a droppod problem, not a C4 problem. I believe droppods are going to be made less steer-able and less abusable very soon.

[RANDOMpercent]

LA has extra speed.

If you were not aware, sorry.

The extra speed is from a possible slot. But it only increases speed by a marginal amount only when sprinting that's really only noticeable when travelling long distance. Most people use Nanoweave or Flak instead.

P.S. I also forgot the recent changes to drifter jets that increases LA speed, but if their using that then they can't fly over the tank from the ground.

[ElVencedor]

No C4 nerf please. That would take a lot excitement and a little skill out of the game in my opinion. Also, what's going to stop tank zergs if TRG can't pull a platoon of light assaults to stop an NC tank column at the Traverse?? Answer is NO ONE.

[EvilNinjadude]

ITT: SHOULD C4 be nerfed.

This thread got kinda hijacked in that direction.

Should C4 be nerfed? Hell no. If you're sitting still, you're farming (tank) or deployed (Sunderer). There are certs that make C4 next to useless (Blockade armor for Sunderer, Composite for Harasser, as examples) and tanks should stay away from buildings anyway.

I like using C4 to blow up stationary targets. If they're moving, it quickly becomes impossible, and I have to pull a HA instead.

[Shogun]

no nerf or buff in ps2 makes sense before the TTK is at least doubled.

[RobUK]

But really it's a hard maneuver to pull off. If an MBT is not observant and is camping somewhere stationary, it deserves to blow up. If a sundy is not being defended, same deal.

I keep reading this here, on Reddit and on the official forums.

I don't have a problem with C4, I use it myself quite a lot. But I don't see the point in keep on pretending that it's difficult to blow MBT's up with it. Sure, there are some times when it's a very silly thing to try, but more often than not I find that I have the advantage over vehicles unless it's out in the big wide open field.

C4 needs to stay as it is because it's pretty much the only hard counter to MBT's and without it the tank zergs would be even worse than they are now.

But it is pleasingly simple and very rewarding exp wise to use against them and not as tricky as some people would like others to believe.

[HelpLuperza]

That's a droppod problem, not a C4 problem. I believe droppods are going to be made less steer-able and less abusable very soon.

Considering they have already had a patch to reduce damage, I agree with you.

Also, I agree that C4 is not the problem, it can be the go to counter for most of the what people might consider the most imbalanced things in the game. It high cost especially with the resource changes, make using effectively, even more important.

[Badjuju]

It doesn't need a nerd, just needs to be removed from light assault. Its far to easy for LA to get cheep infantry kills which are detrimental to even the most coordinated defenses at little effort.

I'd really like to see LA get a complete overhaul. As it stands they are nothing more than a solo class that breaks down the competitive aspects of the game via shotgun/c4/jumpjet combo. Not that I'm against a strong solo class, but it would be great to see them get some utility and be less of a crutch class for picking up easy kills.

But yea, I think c4 is fine asside from LAs.

[Climhazzard]

LA has extra speed.

Adrenaline Pump isn't going to let you catch up to even an oblivious MBT driving away from you.

Not that I'm against a strong solo class, but it would be great to see them get some utility and be less of a crutch class for picking up easy kills.

I'm struggling to take this concern seriously considering the current killing power of certain vehicles.

[maradine]

I'm struggling to take this concern seriously considering the current killing power of certain vehicles.

I know, right?


200 resources = an MBT kill or a few dead suckers in a tower

=or=

250 resources = a 200kph refillable gun/rocket platform


Just not feeling the OMG C4 OP vibe.

[Plaqueis]

Yep, same feel here. And the most interesting comment is the one about taking it away from LA-class... considering it's the only unit that has actual use for C4. I mean, who in his right mind would cert C4 for any other class (medic, engineer, HA), and why? Atleast on my mind, medic doesn't need anything aside of healing stuff, HA and engineer have enough of other stuff for killing armor...

[EvilNinjadude]

The HA has a rocket launcher that can finish off vehicles that C4 would put in the red zone. So what you do, is you place C4, don't bother with detonating, and fire a rocket on top of them. Bam, instagib.

[ColdCheese]

The HA has a rocket launcher that can finish off vehicles that C4 would put in the red zone. So what you do, is you place C4, don't bother with detonating, and fire a rocket on top of them. Bam, instagib.

No what will happen is someone will go thru all the trouble of flanking the long way, exposing themselves to everything, drop 2 bricks that cost them valuable infantry resources and if theyre lucky enough to set them off in time (either way you just wasted 200 resources) chances are all you will get in return is measly assist xp because a lucky HA will most likely finish it off with a rocket and get all of the credit.

Thats a whole 'nother level of frustration that pales in comparison to oblivious or unlucky tankers tears. In one case your being lazy or in the wrong place wrong time and you deserve to die and another case your hustling your ass off doing all the risky work and you dont even get a kill to show for it. At that point why even bother, just save those 200 resources and pull an AV max instead.

Drop pods is whats broken not c-4, like how wraith + fury was broken, but instead of curing the disease SOE treats the symptoms instead and nerfs fury which is also on other vehicles like sundies that nobody ever complained about.

[War Barney]

Well from the sounds of things people have an issue with light assaults having C4... if so remove it from them don't try to screw over heavies. Its pretty suicidal using C4 as a heavy but it can pay off if I'm good / lucky. Granted as a light assault you get a very easy ride as you can fly over people and drop it but that doesn't mean heavies should be screwed.

[Obstruction]

i think the primary complaint here is contextual, with the context being omitted.

the context is likely "C4 in biolabs or towers with infantry resource gain."

i don't at all think it needs any sort of change, and i don't want to appear to come down on either side of this ridiculous discussion at all. but i did want to point out the context.

the "problem" is the resource system allowing someone to spam enough of their 40 stockpiled C4 that they earn enough resources to stock back up to 40 and keep spamming.

Malorn already directly addressed this without saying it outright in the resource/continental update news thread.

[War Barney]

i think the primary complaint here is contextual, with the context being omitted.

the context is likely "C4 in biolabs or towers with infantry resource gain."

i don't at all think it needs any sort of change, and i don't want to appear to come down on either side of this ridiculous discussion at all. but i did want to point out the context.

the "problem" is the resource system allowing someone to spam enough of their 40 stockpiled C4 that they earn enough resources to stock back up to 40 and keep spamming.

Malorn already directly addressed this without saying it outright in the resource/continental update news thread.

this is more an issue with people who pay a sub as they get a huge boost to resource gain, trust me as a non sub right now I can tell you I'm struggling to keep it around the 30 mark, often have to hold back using it as I know I'll run out of it and thus wont have it when I need it for a more vital situation.

Due to the high resource cost (for people who don't pay a sub at least) I pretty much only use it on MAXs and sunderers, perhaps I'll use it on a tank if I end up close to one and its going to kill me otherwise but it just cost way to much to throw around without thinking first.

[Badjuju]

Yep, same feel here. And the most interesting comment is the one about taking it away from LA-class... considering it's the only unit that has actual use for C4. I mean, who in his right mind would cert C4 for any other class (medic, engineer, HA), and why? Atleast on my mind, medic doesn't need anything aside of healing stuff, HA and engineer have enough of other stuff for killing armor...

Most my C4 kills are actually by my medic. Its a mix between taking down tanks and setting C4 traps to help repel max pushes. Next would be tank hunting on engi with my utility pouch.

Good tank drivers will see LAs coming and avoid areas where they can be dropped on. The most effective way to sneak up on armor is to stay on the ground where you can utilize cover. If your floating in the air you stick out like a sore thumb. But I guess there is no shortage of people that are careless with their armor, or get complacent from time to time (something I am guilty of at times).

[Obstruction]

this is more an issue with people who pay a sub

i think if you paid a sub, and used xp boost, you'd see that you still can't sustain use for long without running out.

what people do, is farm resources and abuse continent timers, kill turrets and pop generators, changing continents when there's a base cap happening that will earn resources and then go back into the high pop areas to use them for max effect.

the goal of this type of play is typically "playing to win" for max score per hour, which is fun for a certain type of player. they are not typically following a platoon waypoint, being told to "GO, GO, GO," or ditching their vehicles on a whim to go back to warpgate and be galaxy dropped into certain death.

it's definitely easier to exploit the resource system when you sub and boost, but it's not impossible to stockpile and spam as a F2P if you devote more time to farming the C4. obviously by your comments that isn't fun to you, but people who play like that aren't exactly seeing farming as boring, either. they are seeing it as a necessary function of their "playstyle." in fact, most of your average infantry won't ever earn enough resources to do this, subbed or not, because they follow squads, platoons, or outfits that net extremely low score/hour and call it "teamwork" or "strategy."

these grunts just aren't "free" to do what most benefits them individually because another type of player (the alpha) will kick them from the squad or otherwise exclude/haze/publicly humiliate them.

again, it seems like it's being addressed, thankfully, in the resource changes.

[ColdCheese]

these grunts just aren't "free" to do what most benefits them individually because another type of player (the alpha) will kick them from the squad or otherwise exclude/haze/publicly humiliate them.



That sounds like being in an abusive relationship, why put yourself thru that? Theres Outfits for everytype of playstyle and personality, true that being a teamplayer means sometimes doing things you dont want to do, but if your squad doesnt need or value what your maining or leveling up at the moment, then simply find another one.

[HelpLuperza]

Dude C4 is not the problem; considering how close you have to get to use C4.

I agree their are some bugs that need to be fixed, but C4's damage to tanks and other vechiles should not be changed. (For example a C4 + Claymore will actually do more damage to a Sundy even though a Clay more is not intended to destroy a vehicles. Grenades have the same problem. Fixing it so that Claymore and grenades even when detonated by C4 do no damage to vechiles, is something they should look into.

Furthermore, C4 is a major balance mechanic that balances high population oufits with low population outfits. If we nerf C4's damage, then we necessarily are making the fights less exciting and fair.

[War Barney]

Well either it got nerfed or I found some hacking person cos it took 2 C4 and 4 rockets to kill a sunderer...

Do the devs really want to ruin everything thats good while making other things OP as hell? the C4 use to be useful as you could kill stuff with it... now (assuming it was nerfed and I didn't just find somebody with a perk I've never heard of before) its worthless pretty much. It was hard enough to get 2 C4 and a rocket off, getting 2 c4 and 4 rockets off is impossible unless the sundie is undefended in which case its not spawning units so isn't that vital a target anyway.

The only way C4 is even a bit much perhaps is on a LA as they can fly over tanks and use them, as a heavy though it was if anything a bit underpowered as I had to get so close and it took 2 C4 to kill a tank, and trust me its VERY hard to lay 2 C4 on a tank then blow it up before you die (normally requiring the tank to be stationary and facing away from you).

Oh well.. guess I'll just use medikits until they fix this and make it worth getting C4 again.

[Klypto]

It better not be.

Well either it got nerfed or I found some hacking person cos it took 2 C4 and 4 rockets to kill a sunderer...

That's blockade armor or engineers repairing it.

[mrmrmrj]

Well I know for sure that 2 C4 kill a prowler. That is all I need to be happy.

[moosepoop]

the problem is not c4, the problem is hackers teleporting behind cover close to tanks then running a short distance to make it seem they flanked you.

legitimate players wit c4 are very easy to deal with, its a fair fight.

[Stew]

Yeah I agree C4 is fine as is. Not sure who's bright idea it was to nerf it.

Some TR tanks farmers one is call EliteEskimo on the official forums ;)