Phoenix and the striker needs upgrades [Archive]

Livefire

2013-07-18, 05:32 PM

The Phoenix and the striker needs upgrades, some of which are from 10 years ago from PS1 and simply makes no sense why they are missing. Others as in the case of the Phoenix needs to be returned as it was when it first came out in PS2 minus the OSK. The Phoenix is underpowered in multiple ways making it the most under used AV in the game currently.

Phoenix needed upgrades
1. Full screen field of view, the current FOV is to small making it very difficult to hit small or fast moving vehicles.

2. Return of the dumb fire mode like it had in PS1 and the NC CROW has and the TR/VS equivalent, there for making it not totally useless in close range.

3. Return of the airburst ability like it had in PS1 (allows you to prematurely blow up the missile in mid flight allowing it to do low splash damage to near by targets. This allows you to do some damage to a target as you miss it so often being the phoenix is a hard weapon to be accurate with and ever harder in PS2 then it was in PS1.

4. Return of the missile speed boost ability it originally had when the phoenix came out in PS2. The current missile speed is almost to fast to be able to control it but with out the speed boost ability vehicles such as the harasser, flash, and even the lighting can simply outrun it. And not to mention how easy fighters can simply strafe 2 feet to the right or left in hover and dodge it. The return of speed boost would fix all this.

Striker needed upgrades
1. Return of dumb fire mode like it had in PS1 and the other TR/VS/NC lock on launcher has, again there for making it not almost totally useless for close range.

2. Return of the ability to lock on turrets like in PS1, both base turrets and Engineer turrets.

bpostal

2013-07-18, 05:48 PM

Crator

2013-07-18, 06:32 PM

I haven't purchased either of these weapons. I survive on the standard dumb fire AV for close to medium range (cause it causes the most damage and has a more suitable viewing scope for quick shooting) and the lock on AV for longer range engagements.

I did get nailed by a Striker the other day though. Man, when that thing hits it takes you out pretty quick!

Livefire

2013-07-18, 08:39 PM

I can see why you'd want these additions, trust me I wish my Striker still had dumb fire mode and could lock onto MAXes as well, but I think in the interest of balance and scale we won't be seeing the dumbfire return.
I don't see why the FOV and premature ejactuplosion can't be added to the Phoenix though.

Balance has nothing to do with this matter, how would having a dumbfire mode effect balance at all with the phoenix or the striker? The NC CROW and the TR/VS equivalent has dumb fire and lock on modes and is even an OSK RL to infantry..... The phoenix and the striker are simply missing these very important features which actually make them useful to carry in place of the standard RL's for the NC/TR.

Artimus

2013-07-18, 08:52 PM

I use the phoenix basically as my default rocket launcher. Personally I love it the way it is. Not too powerful but very situational. As long as I can hit prowlers and mag's from behind cover im sasitified. Shooting down air is incredibly challenging but not impossible. Was not really made to shoot at infantry but I would suggest it to have a buff against Max's somehow. As far as the Striker goes I don't play TR so I can't say to much but I do see it clip through mountians from time to time which is really annoying.

NUKABAZOOKA

2013-07-18, 08:53 PM

Why was the Lancer not included?

bpostal

2013-07-18, 08:58 PM

Adding dumbfire to the striker, at least, would ensure that just about every single TR always carries it. This would in turn increase the 'visibility' of lockon squads in that you'd see them in even more places than they already are.
In effect this would turn the Striker into a straight upgrade rather than a situational sidegrade option.
I can only imagine the same would be said for the phoenix. You would start to see them everywhere and again, they would act as a direct upgrade over the standard rocket launcher instead of a situational sidegrade.
That is my understanding of why the weapons were added without dumbfire in the first place. The SKEP, for example, has both ground vehicle lockon and dumbfire whereas the striker can (and will) lock onto anything. The phoenix, while not as agile as it's former incarnation, would still offer the added benefit of rocket launcher sniping while having little to no drawbacks (other than the obvious 'infil knife to the back of the head').

typhaon

2013-07-18, 10:17 PM

I'd expand the range by 50m (to 350) and give it the slightest dmg buff vs. armor.

Otherwise, the Phoenix is fine and vastly underused by NC on my server. There's no better rocket for large-scale battles.

EvilNinjadude

2013-07-19, 05:28 AM

No dumbfire for Striker or Annihilator please. The lack of dumb-fire makes no sense but for balancing, since having three options (air, ground, and dumb-fire) would make the launcher great in too many situations.

Annihilator could use a damage buff though, just saying. I remember seeing how it did less damage than all other rocket launchers... which, for a dedicated Anti-vehicle weapon, is pretty effing terrible (since its velocity is also average).

Dougnifico

2013-07-20, 09:46 AM

Yes... Give my striker dumbfire...

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lrw7ko3BsO1qelvslo1_500.gif

Badjuju

2013-07-20, 10:16 AM

Balance has nothing to do with this matter, how would having a dumbfire mode effect balance at all with the phoenix or the striker? The NC CROW and the TR/VS equivalent has dumb fire and lock on modes and is even an OSK RL to infantry..... The phoenix and the striker are simply missing these very important features which actually make them useful to carry in place of the standard RL's for the NC/TR.

They are suppose to be relatively side grades, not strait up clear cut upgrades. Not that it wouldn't be nice but there would be no reason to use any other launcher in the game.

Sledgecrushr

2013-07-20, 11:14 AM

I absolutely love the striker. Talk about dominating air and land vehicles in a 1 km radius. The strike is a great launcher and doesnt need a buff.

The phoenix on the other hand needs some buffs. It needs to fly slower with a wider view and then have a boost when you are ready to hit a target.

Mastachief

2013-07-20, 03:50 PM

You want to make the already overpowered striker stronger? Someone slap this fool. The pheonix is a poor excuse for an AV weapon.

GraniteRok

2013-07-21, 06:37 AM

typhaon

2013-07-21, 07:01 AM

But if it's equally versatile - then it's obviously more powerful overall.

I think the idea of sidegrades is that all the weapons would have at least some reasonable situations where they would be the best choice.

Add on dumbfire to the Striker and you can pretty much eliminate any need for TR to ever use Crow/Hawk/Annihilator.

One of the reasons I think the Phoenix only needs the most minor of adjustments is that I actually find myself switching between the Decimator, Phoenix, Crow, Hawk, and even Shrike missiles on a pretty regular basis - as situations dictate.

It feels like it has a well-defined fit.

EvilNinjadude

2013-07-21, 07:09 AM

Add on dumbfire to the Striker and you can pretty much eliminate any need for TR to ever use Crow/Hawk/Annihilator.Superfluous note: The TR equivalents are the Launcher and Grounder.

That's the point I was trying to make earlier, how none of the rocket launchers are meant to be good in more than two situations. If you make one launcher superior in every situation, then there's really no point to using anything else.

The Annihilator could still use a damage buff.

KesTro

2013-07-21, 07:19 AM

Honestly I think the most OP launcher is the Decimator. That's the single launcher you can wreck face with by yourself. Every thing else requires a team of useres to make it 'OP'. That's my outlook on it anyway.

Seriously though, 1shotting MAX's eryday.

MrMak

2013-07-21, 08:02 AM

Oh sure make let the striker dumbfire. Just make it THE BEST weapon the TR can chose for any situation without any downsides whatsoever. WHAT COULD GO WRONG!?

Also whats the point of burst fire on the Phoenix? It does almost no splash damage. Its an anti tank weapon!

Edit: Dont know what the guy above me is smoking. The decimator cant one shot even a ZOE MAX!

Sledgecrushr

2013-07-21, 09:37 AM

I totally agree that the phoenix needs a slight buff. Not to damage but to how quickly it flies to its target. Its just a bit to fast when you dont want the speed and not fast enough when you need the speed. In its current form I dont like the phoenix at all. I would rather dumbfire decimators at tanks and esf. At least Im not a immobile sniper target when I use the decimator.

Mastachief

2013-07-21, 10:29 AM

For the Striker, equality in versatility with the other ESRL's is what we're asking for in having the capability to fire on turrets, Maxes/Infantry and vehicles. Dumbfire seems to be the logical method to do this.

Do we get to dumbfire the pheonix then and can it also fly like 600m and maybe hit everything despite cover and maybe maybe hit moving aircraft too.

War Barney

2013-07-21, 08:42 PM

Well the striker definitely doesn't need anything doing it to except a nerf maybe cos is one of the most feared evil things the TR have frankly.

As for the phoenix it seems fine as well, its a pain in the ass to hit aircraft but it 1 shots smaller aircraft and takes 3 shots to take down a libby so that sort of makes up for it, and it might not 1 shot infantry but you can control it to snipe them which makes up for it I think, in siege battles I killed like 20-30 infantry with the phoenix, if it 1 shot people it would be way to OP.

The only thing I would say needs fixing is the libby and its ability to fly above the range of rockets while still being manoeuvrable enough to avoid any rockets. Seriously its a huge ass bomber but so many times iv tried to shoot it with a phoenix only to have it very quickly change direction. All that firepower should be made up for by being slow in the air.

EvilNinjadude

2013-07-22, 01:25 AM

Well the striker definitely doesn't need anything doing it to except a nerf maybe cos is one of the most feared evil things the TR have frankly.
Then why don't we see more Annihilator nests? The Striker has 2x damage per clip as the Annihilator, so it's roughly twice as effective, considering the fact that you're firing rockets over time.

We've seen what 4 people can do to an armor column: Absolutely wreck it. Yet sometimes (see Reddit) there's recorded videos of 12 or more people with Strikers. If you had that many people with Annihilators, they'd be powerful enough to stop their own armor column. Yet everyone just complains how much more powerful the striker is. That's like bringing a gun to a gun fight, seeing how much worse your gun is, and then taking out your knife and stabbing someone instead, CoD style.

Qwan

2013-07-22, 07:32 AM

Ok the Phoenix I can understand, damage is very low, does need some up dating, field of view is ok, all in all the only problem I see is the fact that its damage out put needs a boost.

Now for the striker, I dont wanna hear crap about it, a volley of rockets that shoot around corners, and dont loose locks, and shoots threw mountains doesnt need any up grading. Enjoy it until they nerf it.

War Barney

2013-07-22, 08:03 AM

Then why don't we see more Annihilator nests? The Striker has 2x damage per clip as the Annihilator, so it's roughly twice as effective, considering the fact that you're firing rockets over time.

We've seen what 4 people can do to an armor column: Absolutely wreck it. Yet sometimes (see Reddit) there's recorded videos of 12 or more people with Strikers. If you had that many people with Annihilators, they'd be powerful enough to stop their own armor column. Yet everyone just complains how much more powerful the striker is. That's like bringing a gun to a gun fight, seeing how much worse your gun is, and then taking out your knife and stabbing someone instead, CoD style.

You can also use the strike as an amazing (most likely the best) AA rocket launcher as well as a great anti tank one

Sledgecrushr

2013-07-22, 08:59 AM

For a few minutes of using the striker the other day I almost single handedly shut down a vs zerg. Lost out when they came as a rush of infantry. This weapon is amazing.

MGP

2013-07-22, 09:38 AM

For a few minutes of using the striker the other day I almost single handedly shut down a vs zerg. Lost out when they came as a rush of infantry. This weapon is amazing.

Sorry, but i don't think you've ever used a Striker. I don't even think you have played TR for more then an hour...

Also: http://ps2-stats.com/weapon/infantrytype/rocket_launcher/all/per-hour
NC Phoenix: 2nd best.
TR Striker: 9th place.

NC logic: BUFF PHOENIX! NERF STRIKER!

DynamoECT

2013-07-22, 12:58 PM

Sorry, but i don't think you've ever used a Striker. I don't even think you have played TR for more then an hour...

Also: http://ps2-stats.com/weapon/infantrytype/rocket_launcher/all/per-hour
NC Phoenix: 2nd best.
TR Striker: 9th place.

NC logic: BUFF PHOENIX! NERF STRIKER!

I don't think you can selectively pick average kills as the only judge of an AV weapon's quality. I mean, the phoenix figures could be from when it was a one shot infantry farm machine, and it's obviously a bit rubbish now. Are you saying that given the choice you'd put your striker down and choose any other of the top 8 because they're "better"? I sure wouldn't.
Ps. I'm not saying nerf anything because that gets boring too and I like that we get different shiny things, but the OP assertion that striker needs an upgrade is mind boggling.

Livefire

2013-07-22, 07:39 PM

I don't think you can selectively pick average kills as the only judge of an AV weapon's quality. I mean, the phoenix figures could be from when it was a one shot infantry farm machine, and it's obviously a bit rubbish now. Are you saying that given the choice you'd put your striker down and choose any other of the top 8 because they're "better"? I sure wouldn't.
Ps. I'm not saying nerf anything because that gets boring too and I like that we get different shiny things, but the OP assertion that striker needs an upgrade is mind boggling.

It simply needs to be able to shoot turrets in some way rather that's dumb fire or a manual lock feature added to it so it can be manually locked on to turrets I don't care but the fact it can't even fire on them as an RL is ridiculous. I think dumb fire is a simple and common sense option every RL in the game should have. Why choose other RL's you ask well that depends on what you want as damage is different and how it works is different, lock on ground targets, lock on air targets, camera guided as the phoenix, or can lock on both but do less damage total or lock on nothing and do a lot of damage. This is balancing not making an RL with a sophisticated targeting systems not be able to simply turn it off so it can fly dumb to.

War Barney

2013-07-22, 10:13 PM

Sorry, but i don't think you've ever used a Striker. I don't even think you have played TR for more then an hour...

Also: http://ps2-stats.com/weapon/infantrytype/rocket_launcher/all/per-hour
NC Phoenix: 2nd best.
TR Striker: 9th place.

NC logic: BUFF PHOENIX! NERF STRIKER!

yes lets quote stats from a website which uses ALL kills from every point in the history of the game with no context to it at all. I get a nice number of kills while camping during sieges, is it as capable at its actual job of killing tanks and aircraft though? no it isn't cos it can't lock on and has 1 rocket a clip so things tend to escape.

I wish people would stop linking that worthless site, if I wanted a collection of useless figures I'd make some up instead of using that site.

typhaon

2013-07-22, 11:08 PM

Quoting those stats is hilarious...

It does serve a purpose for identifying posters that know what they're talking about... and those that don't! :lol:

Having said that... I wouldn't be surprised if the 'kills' was close - as I actually get player kills with the Phoenix quite often - it still does a healthy amount of damage to infantry and it doesn't give a lock-on warning to vehicles. I imagine the Striker user is the "victim" of a lot of bailouts.

^None of which detracts from the dominance of the Striker on the battlefield - though it might impact stats.

MGP

2013-07-23, 02:27 AM

Quoting those stats is hilarious...

You got better stats? Ok, let's see them.

typhaon

2013-07-23, 04:17 AM

You got better stats? Ok, let's see them.

It doesn't make sense to go around quoting stats you know are not relevant to current conditions.

MGP

2013-07-23, 04:42 AM

It doesn't make sense to go around quoting stats you know are not relevant to current conditions.
So, to sum it up, you don't have any data but you think Striker is OP just because you "know" it somehow?

Okay. I won't bring stats. I'll just claim that Striker is the worst ESAV in game. I know it. Prove me wrong. I dare you.

War Barney

2013-07-23, 08:09 AM

So, to sum it up, you don't have any data but you think Striker is OP just because you "know" it somehow?

Okay. I won't bring stats. I'll just claim that Striker is the worst ESAV in game. I know it. Prove me wrong. I dare you.

You can simply look at how it performs ingame, the striker is feared by all pretty much, its amazing for killing tanks and 1 of if not the best AA weapons in the game as you can fire so many rockets before reloading.

As for those *stats* well they are about as useful as stats you make up on the fly really as they include stats for the entire history of the game. Find some stats for just the past week or month and that will help.

MGP

2013-07-23, 08:59 AM

You can simply look at how it performs ingame, the striker is feared by all pretty much, its amazing for killing tanks and 1 of if not the best AA weapons in the game as you can fire so many rockets before reloading.

As for those *stats* well they are about as useful as stats you make up on the fly really as they include stats for the entire history of the game. Find some stats for just the past week or month and that will help.

Striker is feared only by bad players. The rockets are slow, the range is small. You can outrun Strikers easily even with stock Reaver.
When i'm on NC i worry more about Grounders. Their rockets are faster and follow you for twice as long. I've spent, like, 5 hours in a Reaver. Not much. But i haven't died to a Striker even once.

On the other hand, if you want to know what "major frustration" really means, roll TR, get a tank and find a battle with NC. You'll get showered by Phoenixes and die before even realizing there's a threat.

PredatorFour

2013-07-23, 09:26 AM

Striker is feared only by bad players. The rockets are slow, the range is small. You can outrun Strikers easily even with stock Reaver.
When i'm on NC i worry more about Grounders. Their rockets are faster and follow you for twice as long. I've spent, like, 5 hours in a Reaver. Not much. But i haven't died to a Striker even once.

Lol feared by bad players, riiiggght....:) 5 hours is sod all time in an esf, hardly can battle in all situations by then. The striker is hands down the best ground/air av when used in small groups.

MGP

2013-07-23, 09:32 AM

Lol feared by bad players, riiiggght....:) 5 hours is sod all time in an esf, hardly can battle in all situations by then. The striker is hands down the best ground/air av when used in small groups.
Striker is the PoS. It's so crappy what after 2 weeks of using it, i've requested SC refund from SOE and went back to using decimator/grounder.

My time flying a Reaver maybe not much, but what is your time using Striker?

Edit: Oh, and if you really think that Striker is so awesome, how about some easy money for you? Create a TR on miller, send me a /whisper, i'll log on my NC and fly a Reaver. You'll trial a Striker and we got to some discreet location. Then you'll try to shot me down using just your Striker. I won't be firing back at you, only avoiding your missiles. We do it for 5 minutes. If you manage to shot me down, i'll give you 1000SC card. And if you fail, you'll delete all your characters uninstall the game, and never go back.

PredatorFour

2013-07-23, 09:45 AM

Striker is the PoS. It's so crappy what after 2 weeks of using it, i've requested SC refund from SOE and went back to using decimator/grounder.

My time flying a Reaver maybe not much, but what is your time using Striker?

Edit: Oh, and if you really think that Striker is so awesome, how about some easy money for you? Create a TR on miller, send me a /whisper, i'll log on my NC and fly a Reaver. You'll trial a Striker and we got to some discreet location. Then you'll try to shot me down using just your Striker. I won't be firing back at you, only avoiding your missiles. We do it for 5 minutes. If you manage to shot me down, i'll give you 1000SC card. And if you fail, you'll delete all your characters uninstall the game, and never go back.

Easy tiger. I specifically said "when used in small groups". But i found your post amusing too:)

MGP

2013-07-23, 09:51 AM

Easy tiger. I specifically said "when used in small groups". But i found your post amusing too:)

Oh, so 5 Strikers are more effective then 5 phoenixes or 5 lancers? For real?
Strikers give you lock warning, and you can either pop flares/smoke or just run into cover. Lancers/phoenixes when used in groups don't give you anything. You're just driving a 100% health prowler and in 0.5 seconds you're dead. Surprise!
If you think that Striker groups are more effective... well, then you must be the most biased person i've ever met on PSU forums.

PredatorFour

2013-07-23, 10:01 AM

If you think that Striker groups are more effective... well, then you must be the most biased person i've ever met on PSU forums.

I don't think i am the only person on here who thinks like that matey.

War Barney

2013-07-23, 10:58 AM

Really, you die before you know theres a threat? cos the phoenix rockets travel slow as hell and don't do great damage, iv not done the maths but it seems to take at least 4 to kill a lightning. Combine that with the slow travel speed and needing to guide it in when the enemy can scoot 2m to the left quickly to avoid it and its not that great.

Its really just good for

A. Sieges, you can sit back from behind cover to shoot stuff, you wont get many kills really but you scare stuff away and get the odd kill on engis on turrets and low hp infantry who stand perfectly still.

B. Hitting people who think they are hidden safely behind a rock but haven't moved close up to it enough (if people move right up close you still wont hit em thanks to the slow turning speed).

Thats it pretty much, its ok at air as it does nice damage to air but you wont hit anything that isn't hovering and didn't notice you and fighting tanks cos its a camera you can't shoot then run you shoot and sit perfectly still while the tank hits you.

Sledgecrushr

2013-07-23, 11:06 AM

The striker has a lot of things going for it. It has the shortest lock on timer, most potential damage, and the best range. Why a tr use anything else for killing vehicles is beyond me.

EvilNinjadude

2013-07-23, 02:53 PM

The striker has a lot of things going for it. It has the shortest lock on timer, most potential damage, and the best range. Why a tr use anything else for killing vehicles is beyond me.

Where are the stats that say it has the best Range?

It's basically the Annihilator with double damage per Magazine, a little more time to empty the magazine, and one magazine less, according to the wikis. (If they're wrong, someone needs to update them)

Sledgecrushr

2013-07-23, 03:07 PM

EvilNinjadude

2013-07-23, 03:14 PM

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AuOojvNLMApVdEtIU1NKenEzNzZOSWNaanFqSUVxLW c&f=true&noheader=false&gid=75

I didnt mention that the striker also has one of the quickest reload times as well.Thank god for that, no idea where to find the speradsheet otherwise.

Also, reload speed doesn't matter since it's the only lock-on launcher that fires several consecutive shots, and so takes more time to empty a magazine. So I haven't taken it into account, in favor of being able to disregard both that AND the refire delay at the same time when considering damage.

Also, doesn't the T2 Striker lock onto Air and Ground targets at different ranges? I dimly recall seeing something like that mentioned in the patch notes...?

War Barney

2013-07-23, 07:47 PM

It also does more damage per clip cos it fires so many rockets...

Slackermagee

2013-07-23, 09:07 PM

The striker is defeated by flares which everyone now uses to the exclusion of most other things (and its a brave, stupid driver/pilot that goes for the other options now a days). It might need a buff if it continues to be stymied after the lock-on mechanic tweaking in GU13/14/15 (whenever is arrives).

The phoenix is would seem to be fine. It suffers in very dynamic situations but then again, the striker suffers from situations with high cover and the lancer suffers close in where you can easily 'splode the user while they're charging their lazors.

The lancer... god help you all when people finally get the hang of letting one person designate targets for a four man fire team of lancers. We've been doing it for a while, but only when the squad leader barks out for a bunch of extra, lancer toting heavies.

I really don't know why people dislike the thing so much, even solo I love using it.

exohkay

2013-07-24, 01:25 AM

The idiocy and tears here are just utterly delicious.

Striker being inferior to the annihilator, fucking lol. Utterly brainless.

If you TR think lancers and phoenixes are bad, try playing against the striker.

There's a reason the annihilator was nerfed, and the striker is far better than it ever was.

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