Adenn's easy to understand TR LMG Analysis

[Adenn]

Hey PSU!

I made a rather lengthy post on the TR lmgs (which I consider myself an expert on) and since this is the 1st time I made a post with the length and that informative I've decided to share it with all of you and hear your opnions :)

I've kept the numbers out of it so some people don't get confused but I do know them so if you wish to get into a statistics battle, go ahead.

So here's a link, combining the format would be to much hell for me to do:

https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/tr-lmg-analysis.142039/

[exohkay]

Nice link.

I don't think the TR LMGs are bad per se, but they all feel very similar, with little visual, auditory or other distinctions.

If they got revamped with different audio and models, they'd be great, but definitely attachments need reworking (for all factions, IMO - some VS weapons have stupid attachments... )

[Adenn]

Nice link.

I don't think the TR LMGs are bad per se, but they all feel very similar, with little visual, auditory or other distinctions.

If they got revamped with different audio and models, they'd be great, but definitely attachments need reworking (for all factions, IMO - some VS weapons have stupid attachments... )

I can't speak for VS obviously so I won't get into that.

Maybe because you don't play TR enough but I can identify 1 TR LMG from another at a glance. They did remodel some of the guns and for me they are different enough as they are.

Now gameplay related, yes they are very similar. Especially with the T16 and T32 in the middle ground. But if they made it even more different then they would be cardboard cut outs from NC/VS and lose our factions traits (High ROF).

But in the end I agree, they are similar when it comes to gameplay and only top tier TR players notice the differences.

[Rolfski]

I consider myself fairly experienced with TR LMG's as well but my conclusions are somewhat different however.

First I would add in statistics to support your conclusions. Secondly, I would add in all LMG's available to TR so Carv S (which is really not the Carv Shit any more since the latest buffs) and NS-15M (good beginner friendly gun but not better than TR LMG's) as well. You could even make a case to include the MCG (great allround gun if you know how to use it) in your analysis to complete the primary guns available to TR HA.

As for your conclusions:
T32 Bull and T16 Rhino are both designed as med range guns imo: T32 as the mobile gun (superior move ads accuracy), T16 as the sustained fire gun (big magazine). The advanced fwd grip (lower horizontal recoil) and higher bullet speed make the T16 the better med-long range gun, the compensator (lower vertical recoil) and hip and ads accuracy makes the T32 the better gun for short-med range. Having said that, the increased hip accuracy on the T32 doesn't make much sense imo. This gun lacks dps to be used in CQB but at least it's nice to have if you run into it.

So I can kinda see what they where thinking with these attachments although I don't necessarily agree to them (2x scopes should be available for all guns).

As a guy who likes to stay mobile and reloads often, I personally prefer the T32 over the T16 for med range fights (Amp stations, Tech plants, etc.) but both are good for that. Anything beyond med range is TMG 50 territory (superior burst fire, damage and accuracy), anything below med range I would take the MSW-R (dps, hipfire) for a LMG.
If you don't know what range you're going to be fighting on, Carv-S is actually not a bad allround option (good dps, good burst fire, good attachments) although I prefer the MCG (with extended mags) for that.

[Sledgecrushr]

Ive been using the tmg50 and man it is so buttery smooth to shoot. It also has a nice heavy machinegun sound when you fire it.

Personally I think this gun is an upgrade over the gauss saw. Easy to shoot without a single cert point it has win written all over it.

[Adenn]

I spoke mostly about weapons I use. I trialed the NS LMG but hated it so never bought thus I won't comment on it.

Same with the Carv S. I plan on purchasing it and getting auraxium on it but only to get all auraxiums on my TR LMGs (Right now on the T32 Bull). I have 1132 kills with the MCG and have a big opinion on it so if people are really interested in reading my opinion on the MCG I will gladly post it.

The reason for not including stats is in my 1st post.

TL:DR I only spoke about things I had experience with, so the Carv S and NS were left out and I consider the MCG irrelevant.

Moving on to your points Rolfski:
The T32's ADS move accuracy is completely irrelevant due to the nerf to adad. So ADS accuracy isn't a good counter-argument for the Bull.

Now your reasoning for using it is fast reload and...ads accuracy I guess?? The MSW-R has a faster reload if I recall and a higher ROF with a easy to compensate recoil (If you have a foregrip and burstfire at mid range). So MSW is imho superior. The 10 extra shots the bull has over the MSW isn't a big factor either imo.

So unless you don't like burst firing (unlike me) I don't see any plus on taking the Bull over the MSW with foregrip. If you don't mind a slightly longer reload but with the benefit of 100 rounds amongst other benefits I won't bother to name, then the T16 easily beats the Bull.

So to finalize this post, I truly believe the Bull needs a buff. It simply isn't worth it in it's current state over the MSW-R(Higher skill required however) or T16 (Even easier to use and more rounds).

[Ruffdog]

Thanks for this. Just got finished with my CARV Auraxium and looking forward to using something else now. Possibly Rhino looking at this.

[Rolfski]

I disagree that the T16 is easier to use over the T32. On shorter ranges, the lower vertical recoil will make it easier to burst fire headshots with the T32.
And the 0,35 ADS move COF over the 0,4 COF of the T16 still comes in handy if you like to move when shooting, like I do.
On longer ranges, the better horizontal recoil and bullet speed of the T16 will prevail.

And when comparing the T32 with the MSW-R: Beyond 50 metres I would always take the T32. T32 just handles better: lower vertical recoil, lower horizontal recoil, better burst fire, higher bullet speed.

Does that mean the T32 couldn't use a buff? I think it could.
They should remove the hipfire bonuses and instead lower the first shot multiplier to 1,5 times, making it a dedicated med-long range burst fire gun, where the T16 is better for sustained fire. Except for extended mags, both T16 and T32 should share the same attachments, including advanced fwd grip and compensator.
And the ridiculous ammo pool nerf, that never made any sense, should be rewinded.

Btw would love to hear your opinion on the MCG.

[Adenn]

I believe then that the T16 and T32 are a matter of preference. While the majority of the player base prefers the T16 (I don't think anyone in FU uses the T32) I suppose some may find the T32 a better choice. Again a matter of opinion

I only have ~300~ kills with the T32 so I'm not that experienced with the weapon either whilst with the T16 I have ~1800~ .

Now I extremely disagree with the notion that the T32 has a superior burst fire to the MSW-R. My problem is the T32 doesn't have enough recoil, I suppose. It simply has such low vertical and horizontal recoil that it is simply better to spray. Same with the T16.

Now the T32 and T16 are so similar to each other that it isn't a big deal to choose one over the other but I still maintain the opinion that the T16 is easier and simply overall better then the T32 for your average player. More ammo, extremely low recoil, tighter COF and high bullet velocity.

Again, I'm thinking on the average player in the case he is looking for a jack of all trade weapons.

As for the MCG, will do a write up.

[Rolfski]

Now I extremely disagree with the notion that the T32 has a superior burst fire to the MSW-R. My problem is the T32 doesn't have enough recoil, I suppose. It simply has such low vertical and horizontal recoil that it is simply better to spray. Same with the T16.
The first shot recoil multiplier for the MSW-R is 2,5. That of the T32 and T16 is 2 (used to be 3 for T16). Now this is very noticeable for burst firing, especially if you take the lower vertical and horizontal recoil of T32/T16 into account.

If you go to VR and start burst firing with these weapons at longer ranges you can test the differences yourself: With the MSW-R your second shot of your burst will simply overshoot more often, making it a worse burst fire weapon.

Btw T16 does NOT have tighter COF vs T32. Check your stats (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AuOojvNLMApVdEtIU1NKenEzNzZOSWNaanFqSUVxLW c&type=view&gid=12&f=true&colid0=16&filterstr0=TR&colid1=17&filterstr1=LMG&sortcolid=28&sortasc=false&rowsperpage=250): For most situations T32 has the tighter COF which is why I prefer it over T16.

[bpostal]

Nice writeup, it expands my working knowledge beyond simply 'Bang! Bangbangbangbangbang!'

[EvilNinjadude]

Damn, I shoulda read this thread first. Now my post over on the official forums is irrelevant.

I might be getting myself the MCG after all. Running around with a Haymaker can get tiring and isn't as effective over medium range.

Thanks for the post, anyway.

[Adenn]

My opinion on the current MCG

Short Answer: I hate it.

Long Answer:

I have 1100 kills on the MCG, if you don't believe me check my player stats. So now you know I'm not talking out of my ass.

Anyways, when the game launch I was conflicted with the weapon. I found it highly enjoyable yet I was more effective with my Carv so after 200 kills with the weapon I ended up placing it back in the locker only occasionally taking it out.

Months later when it got a buff and their was the ADS instant shooting bug I used it all the time. You see, I watched a video on youtube about the chain gun which taught you how to properly use it.

I completely loved it and realized that the gun wasn't bad, but rather had a higher skill floor. I won't go into details but it was essentially a full auto sniper rifle whilst being decent at close range.

Then they changed it with the spin up time...then it became useless to me. I can no longer snipe enemies from mid-long range. The ROF gives the enemies a chance to run and by the time I get the highest amount of ROF the COF is far too large for sniping.

At close range the low ROF has gotten me killed many times as well and the TTK in this game is far too low for me to reach the high ROF before one of us dies. The only time the spin up time is useful for me now is when I manage to flank a large group of enemies and mow them all down, other wise and tend to get FF or shoot everything but my enemy due to the COF.

So yeah, I hate the new MCG. I've tried going back to it to get the auraxium medal but I just can't. They made the skill floor/ceiling lower with this remake of it. I wish you could press "B" to have an alternative firing mode without the spin up time because that killed the gun for me.

[War Barney]

I would like to point out one thing, don't lie and say good players say the SAW is good, I know how to control recoil and its awful, my outfit members know how to control recoil and its AWFUL. You know why? cos its damage isn't that good compared to its rpm, I crunched the numbers and it has about 1550 dps which is about 150 less than the other starter lmgs.

You combine that with its horrible recoil and its a very bad gun as you can't shoot for long burst as you will end up hitting passing satellites instead, as such the rpm is for all intensive purposes about half what it actually says. I don't really know any NC players who use the SAW, its ok for sniping but anything else its pretty much the em1-6 or the GD 22s, the SAW is worthless.

I know this is slightly derailing the thread but I hate to see people lie about the worst gun in the game trying to make out like its good. If you want to know about bad LMGs play the NC, we have the worst, they have bad recoil and low damage, pretty much every TR and VS lmg will beat a NC lmg in close-medium range combat, at long-extreme range the NC lmg is ok but thats infiltrator territory not heavy.

[Dougnifico]

I mostly play heavy assault and I personally think the TMG-50 is overrated. Its ok, but its not all that. I would take the Carv or the T-16 over it any day. I do agree that the T-16 needs a compensator and a x2 Reflex. This would give it some more long range utility. Also is it just me or does the T-16 seem to be under used?

[EvilNinjadude]

I know this is slightly derailing the thread but I hate to see people lie about the worst gun in the game trying to make out like its good. If you want to know about bad LMGs play the NC, we have the worst, they have bad recoil and low damage, pretty much every TR and VS lmg will beat a NC lmg in close-medium range combat, at long-extreme range the NC lmg is ok but thats infiltrator territory not heavy.
>NC6 SAW
>Bad

Well, I must be getting tons of server lag then, judging by how often I've died to them in a straight-up LMG fight.

As someone on the forum pointed out ages ago, you gotta consider the recoil bloom per second, which your RoF factors into.

Nevertheless I'll accept that the GD-22s is the better gun.

[Falcon_br]

My opinion on the current MCG

Short Answer: I hate it.

Long Answer:

I have 1100 kills on the MCG, if you don't believe me check my player stats. So now you know I'm not talking out of my ass.

Anyways, when the game launch I was conflicted with the weapon. I found it highly enjoyable yet I was more effective with my Carv so after 200 kills with the weapon I ended up placing it back in the locker only occasionally taking it out.

Months later when it got a buff and their was the ADS instant shooting bug I used it all the time. You see, I watched a video on youtube about the chain gun which taught you how to properly use it.

I completely loved it and realized that the gun wasn't bad, but rather had a higher skill floor. I won't go into details but it was essentially a full auto sniper rifle whilst being decent at close range.

Then they changed it with the spin up time...then it became useless to me. I can no longer snipe enemies from mid-long range. The ROF gives the enemies a chance to run and by the time I get the highest amount of ROF the COF is far too large for sniping.

At close range the low ROF has gotten me killed many times as well and the TTK in this game is far too low for me to reach the high ROF before one of us dies. The only time the spin up time is useful for me now is when I manage to flank a large group of enemies and mow them all down, other wise and tend to get FF or shoot everything but my enemy due to the COF.

So yeah, I hate the new MCG. I've tried going back to it to get the auraxium medal but I just can't. They made the skill floor/ceiling lower with this remake of it. I wish you could press "B" to have an alternative firing mode without the spin up time because that killed the gun for me.

Dude, this is the story of my life and the mcg, the only difference is that I started using it on beta and I also got the day 1 release nerf to it, I think everytime they change the mcg is for the worst.

I have almost all weapons for the heavy assault, the only one missing are the shotguns (only got the full auto), the first generation smg, and the m32.

Comparing the m32 with the ns15, I fail to see where it can be better then the ns15 so probabily I won't ever use it, probabily not this year.
I never use the smg or the battle rifle with the heavy assault.
My load outs are:
Close msw-r and Decimator, msw-r is a waste to use with foregrip, because I really think that for the range it was design, recoil doesn't matter, so I use adv laser sight, silencer, reflex 1x and soft point.
Medium t16 and that anti air lock on launcher, just adv foregrip, I liked the t16 iron sights a lot, and 1,35x is better then 1x reflex, but since it got a new look, it have now the worst iron sight in the game, so now I am using reflex 1x on it. No high velocity so the recoil is small enough to hit multiple rounds on the target.
Long tmg-50 and striker with comp, foregrip, high velocity, reflex 2x.
Crazy mcg and Decimator, extended mags on it, it was with laser sights for a long time, but now it is useless to fire from the hip while moving.
Shotgun, the full auto shotgun and standart rocket launcher with reflex 1x and extended mags.
Mobility ns15 and standart rocket launcher, with foregrip, compensator, soft point and reflex 2x.

I just have one wish, reflex 2x to all weapons in the game, please! It make no sense to all weapons have 3,4 and 4x sights if most of then don't have 2x reflex!
I also use Nanoweaver and adrenaline shield on maximum levels, With c4 and concussion grenade.

[War Barney]

>NC6 SAW
>Bad

Well, I must be getting tons of server lag then, judging by how often I've died to them in a straight-up LMG fight.

As someone on the forum pointed out ages ago, you gotta consider the recoil bloom per second, which your RoF factors into.

Nevertheless I'll accept that the GD-22s is the better gun.

You must, the SAW is just awful up close as it has a very low dps and a super high recoil which prevents you from sustaining fire. Trust me the SAW is a gun people use for a while thinking *oh ye this is ok* then they start to learn how to play and realise they are still dying a lot despite being better, they then change gun and say *omg why have I been wasting my time and certs on that pile of crap*

[Adenn]

I would like to point out one thing, don't lie and say good players say the SAW is good, I know how to control recoil and its awful, my outfit members know how to control recoil and its AWFUL. You know why? cos its damage isn't that good compared to its rpm, I crunched the numbers and it has about 1550 dps which is about 150 less than the other starter lmgs.

You combine that with its horrible recoil and its a very bad gun as you can't shoot for long burst as you will end up hitting passing satellites instead, as such the rpm is for all intensive purposes about half what it actually says. I don't really know any NC players who use the SAW, its ok for sniping but anything else its pretty much the em1-6 or the GD 22s, the SAW is worthless.

I know this is slightly derailing the thread but I hate to see people lie about the worst gun in the game trying to make out like its good. If you want to know about bad LMGs play the NC, we have the worst, they have bad recoil and low damage, pretty much every TR and VS lmg will beat a NC lmg in close-medium range combat, at long-extreme range the NC lmg is ok but thats infiltrator territory not heavy.
At first I took what you said seriously...but then towards the end you exaggerated.

For one you say that I "lied". How did I lie? It is a fact that most good players love the Gauss, stats aside. Sniping is an exaggeration as well since that Mid range it is very good as well.

I don't like stats because people think it is the only thing that matters and that aside the easy to control recoil neglects the fact that it has a high vertical recoil. I quite frankly believe that you simply aren't as good as you consider yourself to be (BR 40 only).

If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong my specialty are TR Lmgs not NC. But generally everyone knows that the Gauss Saw is one of the best LMGs in the game.

[KesTro]

At first I took what you said seriously...but then towards the end you exaggerated.

For one you say that I "lied". How did I lie? It is a fact that most good players love the Gauss, stats aside. Sniping is an exaggeration as well since that Mid range it is very good as well.

I don't like stats because people think it is the only thing that matters and that aside the easy to control recoil neglects the fact that it has a high vertical recoil. I quite frankly believe that you simply aren't as good as you consider yourself to be (BR 40 only).

If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong my specialty are TR Lmgs not NC. But generally everyone knows that the Gauss Saw is one of the best LMGs in the game.

You're solid bro. The NC Gauss Saw is definitely a solid weapon in the NC playbook. I don't know how anyone can say otherwise. I have to say it's a first seeing someone bitching about it not being OP, pretty refreshing honestly. It has it's places, it's more or less an automatic sniper rifle.

And yes, stats don't mean very much. Give the worst player the best gun and it won't help them very much.

[Rolfski]

My opinion on the current MCG

Short Answer: I hate it.
I definitely agree with you it isn't as good any more since they fixed the bug.

It's still a useful allrounder though if you can get around its quirks. It's pinpoint accuracy means that you will literally always land the first 2/3 shots even on long ranged targets before the COF becomes too big. But as your follow-up pinpoint shots take so long, this means that you will never really kill people on these ranges like a TMG-50 or a Sabre13 can. It's still a good deterrent though. Headshotting people at long ranges, which this weapon can do, is usually enough to make them dive for cover.

Between mid and long ranges its TTK is too low in sustained fire fights but on short ranges it can be very powerful if you make a habit of prefiring the gun and raise shields before peeking corners and stay away from hipfiring.

[War Barney]

You're solid bro. The NC Gauss Saw is definitely a solid weapon in the NC playbook. I don't know how anyone can say otherwise. I have to say it's a first seeing someone bitching about it not being OP, pretty refreshing honestly. It has it's places, it's more or less an automatic sniper rifle.

And yes, stats don't mean very much. Give the worst player the best gun and it won't help them very much.

Uhu... so it having a high recoil and low dps doesn't mean much? You should try using the SAW for a while and see how good it is, I got about halfway to the auraxium and then tried other guns.. I've never looked back.

At the longer ranges the SAW can work but its a weird gun cos the recoil is so high you can hold down the button at close range meaning you end up with a even lower rpm and as such general dps while your opponent will often be able to hold the button and spray you to death. At long ranges the recoil is so high you literally have to shoot 1 bullet so you may as well use a sniper and do real damage with that 1 shot.

The only way I can see the SAW being good is if you can get head shots with every bullet, but honestly if you could do that you'd most likely be using a shotgun for 1 hit kills instead and snipers for longer range for the 1 hit kill.

Basically the SAW is a good thats average so other guns just do the job better. Do people really call it OP? I honestly would love to hear how the hell this gun is OP, as has been said CQC is where the fighting takes place most of the time and the SAW is purely a long range gun, up close any of the other LMGs NC has is better.

I'm honestly starting to think TR and VS have decided they are going to whine and complain till the NC has nothing useful left. And they are getting close, NC MAX is useless, NC has some of the worst LMGs, they are trying to get the vanguard nerfed as it can actually kill a prowler or mag sometimes and my god that shouldn't happen! VS and TR players should have a 90% chance to beat NC it shouldn't rely on something as trivial as skill!

[EvilNinjadude]

VS and TR players should have a 90% chance to beat NC it shouldn't rely on something as trivial as skill!
Never mind that the TR actually have to land two shots for every one you take, which definitely isn't easy while moving... as well as having a special ability that makes it immobile (read: Dead) to allow it to fire those two shots faster. As compared to the Vanguard, which can OHK ESFs, can take more damage, and has Invulnerability as its special ability. I'd rather take the Vanguard any day, thanks.

I think it's pretty balanced right now in a Tank Zerg fight, as Prowlers also get the Vulcan, and when they die, everyone just goes Striker/Annihilator (any player worth their salt will have one lock-on rocket launcher at the very least).

[War Barney]

Never mind that the TR actually have to land two shots for every one you take, which definitely isn't easy while moving... as well as having a special ability that makes it immobile (read: Dead) to allow it to fire those two shots faster. As compared to the Vanguard, which can OHK ESFs, can take more damage, and has Invulnerability as its special ability. I'd rather take the Vanguard any day, thanks.

I think it's pretty balanced right now in a Tank Zerg fight, as Prowlers also get the Vulcan, and when they die, everyone just goes Striker/Annihilator (any player worth their salt will have one lock-on rocket launcher at the very least).

I'm not saying the tanks aren't balanced, I'm saying people are whining to try and get the vanguard nerfed as they died to it once so obviously its OP.

[EvilNinjadude]

I'm not saying the tanks aren't balanced, I'm saying people are whining to try and get the vanguard nerfed as they died to it once so obviously its OP.I want to duel more Vanguards. See how well the engagement turns out. I'm not ready to cry OP or UP on either tank... yet.

[Dougnifico]

Haha. All this bitching about the NC guns. As a TR player, I would molest a beehive for a Gauss SAW. lol

[Rahabib]

personally, I go with Carv S for medium and TMG50 for long. Carv S with a laser sight for when you get that short range engagement isnt bad, but the damage at medium is great and the attachment options are nice. TMG50 at long IMO is the best, and actually I use the TMG more often than not since I prefer to keep my targets away from me :).

[War Barney]

Haha. All this bitching about the NC guns. As a TR player, I would molest a beehive for a Gauss SAW. lol

You might be ok killing a beehive with a NC gun yes, but other players with guns of their own not so much.

[Mastachief]

At first I took what you said seriously...but then towards the end you exaggerated.

Usual passive aggressive nature that you always exhibit

For one you say that I "lied". How did I lie? It is a fact that most good players love the Gauss, stats aside. Sniping is an exaggeration as well since that Mid range it is very good as well.

Where is the data to back up this fact? it is merely your deluded mutterings

I don't like stats because people think it is the only thing that matters and that aside the easy to control recoil neglects the fact that it has a high vertical recoil. I quite frankly believe that you simply aren't as good as you consider yourself to be (BR 40 only).

Because battle rank = skill right? LOLOLOL, you don't like stats because they confuse you. I'll leave the balancing on the rifles up to SOE they actually have the data needed.

If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong my specialty are TR Lmgs not NC. But generally everyone knows that the Gauss Saw is one of the best LMGs in the game.

More baseless conjecture


The SAW Carv and orion are pretty much balanced, if you want to poke the nest on rifle (infact any balance... vulcan, fracture, striker, lock down burster) balance you should look closer to home.

[Dougnifico]

You might be ok killing a beehive with a NC gun yes, but other players with guns of their own not so much.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-NKpxOCubSUc/US8j9tJ-IaI/AAAAAAAA9bA/dSQKy9_ejRk/s1600/26-you-youre-good-facebook-cover.jpg

[Adenn]

The SAW Carv and orion are pretty much balanced, if you want to poke the nest on rifle (infact any balance... vulcan, fracture, striker, lock down burster) balance you should look closer to home.

As always a well thought out non biased post by you Chief :rolleyes:

Not even going to bother anymore with you.

[CraazyCanuck]

>NC6 SAW
>Bad

Well, I must be getting tons of server lag then, judging by how often I've died to them in a straight-up LMG fight.

As someone on the forum pointed out ages ago, you gotta consider the recoil bloom per second, which your RoF factors into.

Nevertheless I'll accept that the GD-22s is the better gun.

As a VS going LMG vs LMG using Orion or even the NS 15M - against NC the SAW is my bane - TR its very close Rhino and then the TMG.

I don't see the GD-22s very often. IMO it's under utilized. When playing my NC, I usually run with it over the SAW.

[EvilNinjadude]

As a VS going LMG vs LMG using Orion or even the NS 15M - against NC the SAW is my bane - TR its very close Rhino and then the TMG.

I don't see the GD-22s very often. IMO it's under utilized. When playing my NC, I usually run with it over the SAW.
Well, the VS standard LMG is a pretty big effing deal.

I was standing on top of the building on Haven Outpost. A VS heavy comes out of the spawn. But that's okay, I have my T5 AMC fully certed into for longrange battles, I should be good. I start landing shots on him. He stands on the bridge, uncertain. Then he turns around and wrecks my ass in one second flat. No attachments, no nothing. He probably didn't even Burstfire. What the hell is up with that.

[CraazyCanuck]

I hear yah. I've had a buttload of those moments. A few last night. The worst, I was firing into a NC HA back with my NS-15M, full certed, with soft point Ammo at maybe 3m. Unloaded a full clip in him on my end. I had shields up and waited for the kill notfiication to pop as I started reloading. Nope. He turns around with his Saw and kills me with 2 shots.

I just chalk it up to netcode and my connection. Nothing else to do but shrug it off and move on but its frustrating none the less.

[KesTro]

Uhu... so it having a high recoil and low dps doesn't mean much? You should try using the SAW for a while and see how good it is, I got about halfway to the auraxium and then tried other guns.. I've never looked back.

At the longer ranges the SAW can work but its a weird gun cos the recoil is so high you can hold down the button at close range meaning you end up with a even lower rpm and as such general dps while your opponent will often be able to hold the button and spray you to death. At long ranges the recoil is so high you literally have to shoot 1 bullet so you may as well use a sniper and do real damage with that 1 shot.

The only way I can see the SAW being good is if you can get head shots with every bullet, but honestly if you could do that you'd most likely be using a shotgun for 1 hit kills instead and snipers for longer range for the 1 hit kill.

Basically the SAW is a good thats average so other guns just do the job better. Do people really call it OP? I honestly would love to hear how the hell this gun is OP, as has been said CQC is where the fighting takes place most of the time and the SAW is purely a long range gun, up close any of the other LMGs NC has is better.

I'm honestly starting to think TR and VS have decided they are going to whine and complain till the NC has nothing useful left. And they are getting close, NC MAX is useless, NC has some of the worst LMGs, they are trying to get the vanguard nerfed as it can actually kill a prowler or mag sometimes and my god that shouldn't happen! VS and TR players should have a 90% chance to beat NC it shouldn't rely on something as trivial as skill!

I still can't believe how anyone thinks the SAW is bad. Is it the gun to be all and end all? No, but it definitely has it place and to say otherwise is 'madness'! Med-Long I can stand up to if not beat other players with the SAW. Even in CQC it's not a bad gun although it noticabley begins to underperform compared to others. So long as you get the jump on someone chances are you'll win with your 5 shot TTK.

Now I understand you hatred towards the vanu and TR, they are rather skilled in the ways of Forumside. However it's not like we don't have our niche in game, play to your strengths. Problem solved. There will come a day when the NC spotlight shall return. Likely after the flamethrowers make their sales hah.

[War Barney]

I still can't believe how anyone thinks the SAW is bad. Is it the gun to be all and end all? No, but it definitely has it place and to say otherwise is 'madness'! Med-Long I can stand up to if not beat other players with the SAW. Even in CQC it's not a bad gun although it noticabley begins to underperform compared to others. So long as you get the jump on someone chances are you'll win with your 5 shot TTK.

Now I understand you hatred towards the vanu and TR, they are rather skilled in the ways of Forumside. However it's not like we don't have our niche in game, play to your strengths. Problem solved. There will come a day when the NC spotlight shall return. Likely after the flamethrowers make their sales hah.

I admit the SAW is good at long to med range, I set mine up to be a sniper gun but the recoil and low rof means its just not as good as any other LMG in CQC. I've tried playing the TR and VS heavy and their guns I find infinitely easier to use and get a lot more kills with. The orion cos it has no bullet drop and is fast as hell with great hip fire accuracy, the TR carv just because its like the SAW but with better hip fire and more dps.

The carv is pretty much the SAW but for close range combat cos its not got the range but it does more damage.

And as was said this game is all about CQC, if I want to snipe generally I'll use a phoenix or switch to a infiltrator. As I said I kitted out the SAW for long range battle but I barely ever use it cos of those reasons I just gave and cos the recoil makes it almost impossible to use, iv got all the certs to reduce the recoil but at long range you literally need to fire 1 shot bursts cos otherwise you wont hit anything with it. If you're doing that you may as well use a sniper rifle.

And yes the VS and TR are skilled in the art of forumside, get so annoyed cos its obvious they are either just lying through their teeth or have never played a NC heavy with the SAW, cos everybody who has and has tried the VS and TR starter LMG will tell you those guns are better at close range (even mid I'd say I prefer the orion at least). You cannot hip fire the SAW the orion even without the laser sight works, when you get that you dont need to use ADS ever again cos its so accurate. Combine that with its speed lack of bullet drop and almost no recoil and you have a terrifying gun.

The most annoying thing is they quote stats from that planetsid2stats website and act as if that means something despite those stats including all data from the entire history of the game thus being completely irrelevant. I just wish they would TRY to help make the game balance instead of instead keeping up with this inside joke they seem to have to make the NC the most underpowered thing in the history of gaming, the SAW is a joke our MAX is a joke and they are trying damn hard to get the vanguard nerfed so its a joke as well. god knows what they will do next, perhaps claim all NC players have 1000 health more than other factions so all NC players should have that 1000 health removed to make it fair.

[KesTro]

I'm still confused about what you're trying to debate. Someone did the numbers in a thread about all the factions starter LMG's and the DPS (which doesn't mean jack) came out equal. It's no secret that the Vanu LMG is the best starting LMG with the carv a good all around LMG.

The difference between the SAW and the other starters is that it's for specializing. The thing's min damage is other factions Max damage. That aside I don't mean to hijack Adenn's thread.

As far as TR LMG's go I've always liked the TMG50 for the damage. I like the slower firing weapons over high ROF weapons with some crazy recoil.