Automated Engineer Turrets?

[Palerion]

I'm just curious, I never played PS1, but are automated engineer turrets like the spitfires from PS1 ever going to be implemented in PS2?

[Ironfather]

I think they will be because i found them in the in game files.
its just named auto turret.
http://imgur.com/fgkff1Y

[AThreatToYou]

That does not look automated to me.

[Ironfather]

and with a bit of digging found this thread on soe forums

https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/game-would-be-fun-with-the-ps1-cloak-ams-ps1-mines-ps1-spitfires-and-ps1-motion-detectors.72583/page-3

[Shogun]

there even was a "spitfire" certification tree for the engineer in early beta (or in the special client they used at last gamescom, i don´t remember when exactly i saw it)

and my hopes went up to get my beloved fun auto turret.
but ever since i didn´t hear any news about it from the devs.

and i don´t understand why they have been scrapped!
bases are indefendable, spawnrooms are campfests, and everything we used in ps1 for defense is either reduced by 90% or stripped totally (basewalls with catwalks, chokepoints, big minefields, fields of motion sensors, sendor disruptors, automated turrets and so on)

hell, even the only turret the devs left in the game is castrated to uselessness by restricting it to only be used by the engi who placed it!

why? it´s almost like the devs planned to discourage defenders and wanted them to run away from any fight!

so YES, please give us back the spitfire turrets! and while you are at it, increase the numbers of CE an engineer can place and make the mana turret useful by making it manable by every friendly, or at least squadmembers, or give it a menu like vehicles have, to switch its access status..

[Qwan]

I hope they do bring back the motion activated spit fire, but see it wont be like in PS1 were you certed for it. See there going to make a shit load of cash with that item, here is what I predict. They will sell it for SC 1000, or certs 1000, it will initially be over powered, that way people will buy them like crazy, then during the next GU they will significantly reduce the damage and range. If anyone notices, this is how most of the newer weapons are put out, im starting to notice a pattern. Everything they initially put out they make OP, you buy it, then they nerf it, in the name of balancing the game.

[PredatorFour]

I think they got scrapped cos they would be more OP in this game. They were great in the old game, i used them all the time. With the TTK being alot faster in this game though these turrets could possibly take you down in a second or two compared to the quite long TTK in the original.

[Hmr85]

I would love to see the spitfire make a return. Hell, if the spitfire made a return I would actually start using my engineer some more.

[Ruffdog]

Maybe when power crystals make an entrance?

[Canaris]

I wasn't a fan of the spitfires from PS1 they weren't the worse and could be out thought but in PS2 given the short TTK of the game, weapon systems that play themselves would be even worse, just put me down on the the no thanks list.

While there's lots of PS1 that would be a boon to PS2, there's also the flip side of the coin where plenty of stuff just doesn't belong

[Shamrock]

I loved spitfires, when well placed they could swing the balance in a defense especially when your out numbered and your grasping for any edge over the attackers. Sometimes even when they got taken down the audio of them firing would be useful as it immediately alerted you to the direction/door an attacker was coming to. The TTK in PS2 does present a problem but I see no reason why they could not be tuned to do weak but consistent damage.

[Calista]

Everything they initially put out they make OP, you buy it, then they nerf it, in the name of balancing the game.

:lol:

[Kerrec]

I know a lot of people here will look back at Spitfires in PS1 with nostalgia, but I can't get on board with implementing this in PS2. But I have reasons at least:

1) There is already a lot of backlash among the playing populace about "no skill" weapons. A Spitfire is basically a "lock on" weapon that chooses it's own targets. How would this ever be condoned? Anyway, that being said, the strongest argument I have against automated anything is,

2) Spitfires are automated, which means Artificial Intelligence. Artificial Intelligence is CPU intensive. A Spitfire deciding who to shoot (and how accurately to shoot?) when a squad is in the area might not be CPU expensive, but several Spitfires deciding who to shoot when there are multiple platoons would just slow everything to a crawl.

TL;DR: Spitfires are CPU intensive. PS2 is ALREADY limited by CPU. Spitfires would just destroy performance.

[Palerion]

Well, it would be enough to make me play the class more.

Personally, I would rather remain an infantry soldier while my defenses work, and defend them with my carbine, than man a more powerful turret. It's just my playstyle. The idea of it being overpowered isn't really a problem, it could be fixed very easily by having a slower time to kill. I suppose there could be one turret that was more indoor-focused with less range but a quicker TTK (still allowing the enemy to evade its fire, but maybe killing in 2-3 seconds), and a longer ranged one that would go farther but take 5-6 seconds to kill.

Needless to say that's just a concept with numbers that I haven't thought through very much, but it should be easy to balance.

On the other hand, as for CPU load, that could be a serious problem.

[Whiteagle]

Well, it would be enough to make me play the class more.

Personally, I would rather remain an infantry soldier while my defenses work, and defend them with my carbine, than man a more powerful turret. It's just my playstyle. The idea of it being overpowered isn't really a problem, it could be fixed very easily by having a slower time to kill. I suppose there could be one turret that was more indoor-focused with less range but a quicker TTK (still allowing the enemy to evade its fire, but maybe killing in 2-3 seconds), and a longer ranged one that would go farther but take 5-6 seconds to kill.

Needless to say that's just a concept with numbers that I haven't thought through very much, but it should be easy to balance.

On the other hand, as for CPU load, that could be a serious problem.
Indeed, the only reason I can see that they didn't give the Engineer an Auto Turret to begin with is because of optimization issues.
As it is, I only use the MANA when I need a piece of cover or to destroy something with sustained fire and not waste ammo.

[Timealude]

i think infils need a sapper then :D

[WSNeo]

Before people start collectively bitching and shooting down a great addition due to misconception, any AI or NPC in an MMO is SERVER-SIDE that means that the SERVER will be doing the calculations of the spitfire, not your computer. As it stands, there's already NPCs in the game (Higby stated that terminal, generators, etc all run off of some sort of NPC mechanic even if it's not openly apparent to the common player).

Also whoever mentioned the "no skill" weapons. They are completely right, this is why FAF missiles (controlled by server-side AI) are being needlessly nerfed screwing over people that prefer that playstyle. Mines are "no skill" because you drop them, forget them, and idiots run them over and they instantly explode (which is worst than an A2A missile chasing you and exploding), why should Spitfires not be implemented because idiots can't learn to stop sprinting around Call Of Duty style with no time to react to an automated turret ready to deposit it's bullets into the player's chest.


The devs need to get out of the habit of pleasing the "omg no skill" crowd and build a game that somewhat make sense from a war standpoint. This IS a massive war game after all.

[Dragonskin]

Could be cool. I think people are over re-acting on the idea of this turret. We could have things that will make getting around them easier.

We know implants are coming and will show explosives and mines... why not throw turrets in there?

We can all agree that infiltrators could use more targets and better ways to be useful and actually... infiltrate. Give them an ability to turn them off.. or at least allow their EMP grenades to wipe them out. The EMP grenade currently isn't much of a EMP.. it only affects players and mines.

Personally I want to play my engineer more, but the current game isn't very exciting. Turrets suck and are highly situational. All they really have going for them is mines and being able to repair things. It would be awesome if engineers could be allowed to have more options on making defenses for bases. I want to play my engi more, but right now infiltrator and heavy assualt are the most fun.

[Kerrec]

Before people start collectively bitching and shooting down a great addition due to misconception, any AI or NPC in an MMO is SERVER-SIDE that means that the SERVER will be doing the calculations of the spitfire, not your computer. As it stands, there's already NPCs in the game (Higby stated that terminal, generators, etc all run off of some sort of NPC mechanic even if it's not openly apparent to the common player).

Also whoever mentioned the "no skill" weapons. They are completely right, this is why FAF missiles (controlled by server-side AI) are being needlessly nerfed screwing over people that prefer that playstyle. Mines are "no skill" because you drop them, forget them, and idiots run them over and they instantly explode (which is worst than an A2A missile chasing you and exploding), why should Spitfires not be implemented because idiots can't learn to stop sprinting around Call Of Duty style with no time to react to an automated turret ready to deposit it's bullets into the player's chest.


The devs need to get out of the habit of pleasing the "omg no skill" crowd and build a game that somewhat make sense from a war standpoint. This IS a massive war game after all.

Do you understand why infantry render distance varies? The bigger the battle, the closer the cut-off line is for rendering. That is not a client side issue, that is a SERVER SIDE issue. The Servers ALREADY have to throttle information to prevent overload. Now you propose adding a piece of kit that will require the server to render a scene, establish LOS, establish some kind of priority queue for a turret that is going to potentially kill people while you sit in the spawn room nice and safe?

Do you realize that hit detection is done client side? Why do you think they do this? Now you want to implement a game mechanic that will require the server to start doing hit detection too?

I am well aware that everything would need to be server side. And that is what I fear. A reduction in performance so people can have something that worked in a game where the total enemy population possible on a continent was 332. And PS1 didn't model bullets as actual objects that the server tracked...

It is just so much more complicated than it was in PS1.

[WSNeo]

D Now you propose adding a piece of kit that will require the server to render a scene, establish LOS, establish some kind of priority queue for a turret that is going to potentially kill people while you sit in the spawn room nice and safe?.

Exactly!

[Hamma]

I've heard once or twice they planned to make turrets upgradable with AI as opposed to having standalone AI turrets.

[Rumblepit]

i dont think i would have a problem with AI turrets making a return as long as it didnt effect the performance of the game.

only allow them to be deployed in a friendly soi,and allow infils to hack them

[Canaris]

you know what hit home last night about this concept is, they would seriously need to sort out the games render issues before even contemplating adding in AI to the game.

As anyone who plays in big fights can attest you can be 10-20 meters away from the enemy and you won't see them until you stumble over them when the server is struggling.

I was in a tower fight last night and it was pretty thick with people fighting and render range was down to 5m, I kid you not enemy were appearing almost into knife range. My gaming rig is a beast with 150mb dl so it ain't my side of things.

Could you imagine spitfire style turrets just shredding you down before they even appear in the chaos, no thank you.

[Crator]

you know what hit home last night about this concept is, they would seriously need to sort out the games render issues before even contemplating adding in AI to the game.

I always figured this was one of the main reasons to why they didn't add spitfires to PS2 in the first place. Also the same reason for why they didn't allow more mines to be deployed, like in PS1.

Sometimes it seems like the map and radar cause a lot of my lag spikes, however it doesn't happen all the time. Perhaps it's due to amount of objects the server is tracking though. Cause sometimes it seems like when I have these slow downs due to amount of objects that other people are having them too. Which isn't a render issue but a client server object tracking issue.

[camycamera]

That does not look automated to me.

it kinda does. look at the way the legs are placed,i'm sure that it is small, someone would not want to operate that.

[Ghoest9]

I hope not.

I used and abused them to a great amount in PS1 - but its not good game play.

[Dougnifico]

You know, I love low TTK, but I will admit that with said low TTK it makes auto turrets a nightmare. I do not support auto turrets in Planetside 2.

[Rivenshield]

You know, I love low TTK, but I will admit that with said low TTK it makes auto turrets a nightmare. I do not support auto turrets in Planetside 2.

Balls. They worked fine in BF 2142. You know. The game that ripped Planetside off and got away with it.

[Snipefrag]

Auto turrents will be fine, as long as they can deal with them technically. The TTK argument isnt valid. Spitfires didn't exactly mow you down in PS1, they gave you time to react. I cant imagine why it would be different in PS2.

[Crator]

Auto turrents will be fine, as long as they can deal with them technically. The TTK argument isnt valid. Spitfires didn't exactly mow you down in PS1, they gave you time to react. I cant imagine why it would be different in PS2.

They did take down infiltrators faster then other armor because infils had lower body armor. But that was the risk vs. reward. You also had implant options to make it so you couldn't be detected as easy by spits.

Spits in PS1 were used as an early warning system and to slow enemies coming into a location for a short while. They could also be used as a lure into a mine field.

[Dougnifico]

Balls. They worked fine in BF 2142. You know. The game that ripped Planetside off and got away with it.


Hmm... I never play BF 2142... I'll have to look at this. Might change my stance if it worked well...

*NOTE: This is called opening up to new information. lol

[Snipefrag]

They did take down infiltrators faster then other armor because infils had lower body armor. But that was the risk vs. reward. You also had implant options to make it so you couldn't be detected as easy by spits.

Spits in PS1 were used as an early warning system and to slow enemies coming into a location for a short while. They could also be used as a lure into a mine field.

Yeah they did, as you said any infil worth their salt would have sensor shield or knew to crouch walk if they were near live spits. Especially when infecting them with a virus :). Used to have a second BR25 CR5 character called KnifedInTheBack purely for the sneaky sneaky :).

Hopefully the infiltrator pass will bring back some of these things.. god they were so much fun. All i do with my infiltrator now is Snipe and SMG people. Not very thrilling.