Massive Nerf to Vehicle Radar

[subDii]

"The vehicle must be occupied for radar to function.”

I would like to see some type of "car keys" tool that one can use to 1) reset vehicle expiry time 2) temporarily activate vehicle so radar can be active without driver (a cool down on both these abilities)

[maradine]

While I enjoyed the novelty of spamming unmanned radar flashes into fights, I'll be the first to admit it was cheap and probably unintended.

[Carbon Copied]

Gives the Infiltrator more of a role and use for their darts - where before people just drove the radar vehicle in and shoved it anywhere rendering them pretty much obsolete: even as someone who isn't a full time infiltrator I see this as a good change and not a nerf.

[Larington]

Well first there's the requirement it be occupied. I'm ok with this, it's as much a buff to infiltrator radar darts as it is a nerf to vehicle radar.

The other change is movement based radar instead of auto detection. Which I'm perfectly ok with, there's been a couple of occasions where an enemy ESF fly's over the bush I'm hiding in, staying completely still so as to not be detected. Next thing I know I'm being rocket podded 'cause the git has a radar module installed.

[Boildown]

Its a free to play game. How many certs is it to max out flash radar? How much does it cost to make a mule character on a second account? Did they actually buff flash radar?

This is a nerf to casuals who played smart and stuck a radar flash in a building, this is a buff to high end / serious outfits who will 2-box a second mule to sit on the flash (or tell their little brother to do it), because radar now detects stealthed infiltrators, which it did not before.

[Dragonskin]

Its a free to play game. How many certs is it to max out flash radar? How much does it cost to make a mule character on a second account? Did they actually buff flash radar?

This is a nerf to casuals who played smart and stuck a radar flash in a building, this is a buff to high end / serious outfits who will 2-box a second mule to sit on the flash (or tell their little brother to do it), because radar now detects stealthed infiltrators, which it did not before.

It's worth noting that SOE was originally going to release the implants in the same patch which would have allowed infiltrators to stay undetected by radar.. or anyone else for that matter, but would have been more beneficial to infiltrators. Implants were yanked, but the radar changes still went live.

Creating a demand.. now SOE just needs to figure out the supply.

[typhaon]

It was very cheap - but it was also a pretty effective tool for defenders, as it became common practice.

I think this will make defending that much harder.

[Boildown]

Lol, based on the official forums, it seems that this change has brought huge publicity to scout radar, the second most underused tool in all of Planetside 2 (next to effectively used spawn beacons). I knew people had no idea how awesome it was, or else I'd see it used more often. Now people get a clue the moment it is too late.

[DirtyBird]

Since they fixed recon dart lotto this change doesn't bother me as much now.

That 2nd box option for radar is interesting tho...

[Hamma]

This change doesn't bother me to much.

[Fenrys]

I'll probably start using the Flash like an engineer's turret. Still gonna park it inside buildings, but now I'll cover a doorway using the Kobalt instead of on foot.

[Ghoest9]

The only change that is bad is the its even easier than before to find infs.

[War Barney]

"The vehicle must be occupied for radar to function.”

I would like to see some type of "car keys" tool that one can use to 1) reset vehicle expiry time 2) temporarily activate vehicle so radar can be active without driver (a cool down on both these abilities)

Sure if I can get into enemy vehicles and kill them all with it, only makes sense as they were stupid enough to leave the keys in.

[maradine]

This is a nerf to casuals who played smart and stuck a radar flash in a building, this is a buff to high end / serious outfits who will 2-box a second mule to sit on the flash (or tell their little brother to do it), because radar now detects stealthed infiltrators, which it did not before.

If your greatest residual balance issue after a change is that (*gasp*) someone might dual-box, you've pretty much done your job.

[Baneblade]

Glad they nerfed it.

[SternLX]

So now I'm forced to sit there on my 100m Scout Radar Flash with my cock in my hand earning ZERO XP. Nice. NOT!

Cert refund plx.

[Dragonskin]

So now I'm forced to sit there on my 100m Scout Radar Flash with my cock in my hand earning ZERO XP. Nice. NOT!

Cert refund plx.

Seriously don't understand comments like this.

Pulling a vehicle that has 100m radar that didn't require being manned totally over shadowed infiltrators with darts. Now darts are more essential because people like you are upset about not being able to use their toy to rack up kills.

Now you actually have to use your flash to get kills with your radar or babysit your flash to let your allies rack up kills. I know using a vehicle for its intended purpose must be a horrible concept for you.

No reason to get a cert refund. The radar still works while in the vehicle. It's not like acquisition timers which are completely being removed (in a future patch) so they decided refunds would be appropriate.

[Mordelicius]

The nerf was expected after they announced the coming changes to the infiltrator. They are basically shifting the recon duties to the infiltrator.

The nerf isn't a big of a deal. Although it wouldn't hurt to give us 2xp per every kill on our radar. I missed plenty of fights due going around on recon mode.

Normally, I'd just park it. Now that I have drive it, the XP I get is practically zero while dying a plenty from Infil, LA, Decimators, Tanks and Harassers. I got some accidental points earlier. An infiltrator killed me while I was backing up. As I died, he got run over :lol:. Aside from lucky kill assists, there isn't really much xp from being recon.

[Rolfski]

The nerf isn't a big of a deal. Although it wouldn't hurt to give us 2xp per every kill on our radar. I missed plenty of fights due going around on recon mode.
This is exactly why this nerf is a big deal. There's no reward any more for fulfilling a scout role in your team. The old system felt cheap for sure but SOE should have replaced it with a system that actually rewards people for manning their radar Flashes/ESF's to help their team mates.

[Snipefrag]

This is exactly why this nerf is a big deal. There's no reward any more for fulfilling a scout role in your team. The old system felt cheap for sure but SOE should have replaced it with a system that actually rewards people for manning their radar Flashes/ESF's to help their team mates.

Or they are trying to make infiltrators more useful, their support capabilities are already under utilized. This change is part of carving out a niche for Infiltrators on the battlefield that doesn't just involve sneaking around with an SMG or sniping people.

[typhaon]

Or they are trying to make infiltrators more useful, their support capabilities are already under utilized. This change is part of carving out a niche for Infiltrators on the battlefield that doesn't just involve sneaking around with an SMG or sniping people.

Now, the counter for infiltrators is... more infiltrators.

[SternLX]

Seriously don't understand comments like this.

Pulling a vehicle that has 100m radar that didn't require being manned totally over shadowed infiltrators with darts. Now darts are more essential because people like you are upset about not being able to use their toy to rack up kills.

Now you actually have to use your flash to get kills with your radar or babysit your flash to let your allies rack up kills. I know using a vehicle for its intended purpose must be a horrible concept for you.

No reason to get a cert refund. The radar still works while in the vehicle. It's not like acquisition timers which are completely being removed (in a future patch) so they decided refunds would be appropriate.

I would explain my point that you so completely missed but I don't make it a habit of explaining things to the clueless.

[SternLX]

This is exactly why this nerf is a big deal. There's no reward any more for fulfilling a scout role in your team. The old system felt cheap for sure but SOE should have replaced it with a system that actually rewards people for manning their radar Flashes/ESF's to help their team mates.
Whoa. someone who gets it. Mr Dragonskin up here who thinks he knows best for everyone could learn a thing or two.

[typhaon]

Perhaps the problem is that the scout radar doesn't really belong on the flash... or rather, what it was being used for could go on another command and control vehicle.

It seems to me that the proximity radar is more appropriate for the flash and the scout radar would be more appropriate for a sunderer.

Another option would be to make it so the the scout radar is usable with stealth on the flash. I know people get kills using flashes, but I'm guessing most of those come from people using the stealth option.

As far as I can tell - driving around in an unstealthed flash, fighting, trying to make use of your radar - is a recipe for a quick death.

[SternLX]

As far as I can tell - driving around in an unstealthed flash, fighting, trying to make use of your radar - is a recipe for a quick death.
Ding ding ding! Winner, winner, chicken diner!!
The risk for using Scout Radar and trying to use any attached weapon in a big fight is a quick and easy recipe for a piping hot plate of "YOUR DEAD!".

In other words, the risk outweighs the reward. Scout Radar is useless to me now. Sure it's a boon to my side but I get jack shit if I want to keep it alive by parking somewhere safe. No point in having it if it's not going to reward anything for using it. My Certs used in maxing it out are now wasted Certs.

Again, Cert Refund plx.
OR put it back the way it was.
OR trade Scout Radar for Proximity on the Flash and give Scout Radar to the Harasser in Favor of Proximity; at least I can be more productive and effective in a Harasser.
OR Give me the same reward that infils get for Recon tool spots if I have to be glued to my Flash.

[Varsam]

This is exactly why this nerf is a big deal. There's no reward any more for fulfilling a scout role in your team. The old system felt cheap for sure but SOE should have replaced it with a system that actually rewards people for manning their radar Flashes/ESF's to help their team mates.

The "reward" is exactly the same as it was before - free maphax. The only difference now is that it actually takes effort.

Ding ding ding! Winner, winner, chicken diner!!
The risk for using Scout Radar and trying to use any attached weapon in a big fight is a quick and easy recipe for a piping hot plate of "YOUR DEAD!".

In other words, the risk outweighs the reward. Scout Radar is useless to me now. Sure it's a boon to my side but I get jack shit if I want to keep it alive by parking somewhere safe. No point in having it if it's not going to reward anything for using it. My Certs used in maxing it out are now wasted Certs.

Again, Cert Refund plx.
OR put it back the way it was.
OR trade Scout Radar for Proximity on the Flash and give Scout Radar to the Harasser in Favor of Proximity; at least I can be more productive and effective in a Harasser.
OR Give me the same reward that infils get for Recon tool spots if I have to be glued to my Flash.

Or you could try being a little more imaginative instead of trying to use it in the same way it was used before. Suddenly you don't know where every enemy is at all times without any kind of effort and you cry about it?

You have such a problem with the risk/reward, but you completely overlook the fact that there was NO risk involved before. It was stupidly effective and costed basically nothing. Even if they'd removed it from the game entirely it would've been a better alternative than keeping it. It NEEDED nerfing, period. Deal with it.

I would explain my point that you so completely missed but I don't make it a habit of explaining things to the clueless.

Wow, you are such a douche.

[SternLX]

Deal with it.
Wow, you are such a douche.
NO... No... You want to be dismissive just like that? Fuck you ... deal with it.

[maradine]

Egos back in their boxes, please.

There's nothing wrong with shifting reward back onto the driver if you cant live without the XP pop-ups. It's a nice sentiment. I don't think it's going to happen, though.

Edit: also, re-certs aren't terribly far away.

[Rumblepit]

the old radar ability will be long forgotten when they introduce the inerlink, and having and holding a link to that base will be sought after by all.

https://www.google.com/search?gs_rn=20&gs_ri=psy-ab&tok=R5dVFN38iz8ZaT8FtBciAA&cp=8&gs_id=v&xhr=t&q=planetside+2&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.49784469,d.dmg&biw=1280&bih=923&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=GOzxUZzuIsfI4APDqIHQBg#um=1&hl=en&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=planetside+2+interlink&oq=planetside+2+interlink&gs_l=img.3..0i24l2.2833.5084.0.5350.10.7.0.3.3.0.5 2.340.7.7.0....0.0..1c.1.20.img.W-xFjT1wJvs&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.49784469%2Cd.dmg%2Cpv.xjs.s.en_US.MpiVkF51m pA.O&fp=5758af66c10acd9f&biw=1280&bih=923&facrc=_&imgdii=U0WwbzuVAUXY-M%3A%3BJqwWoQeVYQpXkM%3BU0WwbzuVAUXY-M%3A&imgrc=U0WwbzuVAUXY-M%3A%3B1s66trUPj91XqM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fi.imgur .com%252FZeKHSVH.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.plan etside-universe.com%252Fshowthread.php%253Ft%253D54670%3B 908%3B505

[Angrytortoise]

Don't understand peoples obsession with huge radius radar in FPS's, personally always found it removes more fun than it adds especially when you already had a spotting system as well as weapon's fire minimap ping; having pretty much complete battlefield awareness for 100 certs and 20 seconds of effort was dumb to begin with. I'm happy with this change, will at least make scout radar vehicles more of an active roll as opposed to an ever present mild resource sink.

[almalino]

Soon announced:
- You need to have 3 people manning Sunderer to be able to spawn on it.
- You need to stay 1 meter close to ammo box to make it supply ammo to friendlies.
- You need to stay on top of spawn beacon to make it function as a spawn beacon.
- You need be around 2 meters around bouncing betty to make it trigger on enemies.

Reasoning:
Now it is effortles XP, kills etc grinding. Not ACCEPTABLE!!!

etc, etc, etc. :) Just kidding. I liked the old radar. I will survive without it but I will miss it.
I also think it was not abused and was not overused. But for some reason or another SOE decided to get rid of it.

[Momember]

As someone who abused this on my flash I'm glad they removed it. The radar on my lightening with anti inf, infra-red and min reload time however is still viable :evil:

[Rolfski]

The "reward" is exactly the same as it was before - free maphax. The only difference now is that it actually take effort. Nope, the reward went from getting kills/XP in fun fights while you could just leave you Flash parked, to absolutely zero reward and even worse, you're forced out of the fight now because driving an unstealthy Flash in the open is officially suicide. This is just plain bad game design.

Or they are trying to make infiltrators more useful, their support capabilities are already under utilized. This change is part of carving out a niche for Infiltrators on the battlefield that doesn't just involve sneaking around with an SMG or sniping people.
Well, if that's the case what's the role of the new radar Flash then? I seriously can't think of a scenario now where I would drive around in this coffin besides getting from point A to B. It has become useless overnight.

[Carbon Copied]

I think as a trade off they should have changed the scout radar to ping enemy anti tank mines to bring it into more of a scout vehicle; detects enemies / mines whilst being driven then when you hop off the inf's are there to assist in enemy personnel detection with the darts.

[Varsam]

Nope, the reward went from getting kills/XP in fun fights while you could just leave you Flash parked, to absolutely zero reward and even worse, you're forced out of the fight now because driving an unstealthy Flash in the open is officially suicide. This is just plain bad game design.

The reward is still there - for your team. People are just pissy about it now because they can't take advantage of it themselves, and THEY get nothing out of it, which sucks.

But that's not bad game design, that's balancing. Bad game design was making a risk-free no-cost map hack available to everyone for months, and then taking it away after everyone got used to it.

[typhaon]

Having a vehicle that you have to just go sit on in a dark corner to make use of its radar isn't good game design... duh... that's probably the worst game design.

^Nobody would be having fun doing that.

And the reason being - you simply can't drive an unstealthed flash around on the battlefield and expect to live more than half a second.

It's true - some organized outfits might have people willing to sacrifice their fun by going off and sitting in the dark corner - but you could tie any number of similarly powerful benefits to similarly unfun gameplay and that would still be true... Wouldn't make any of it good design.

I could see putting scout radar on a harasser and requiring it to be driven... though since it is very powerful, you'd need to have it as an option in the same slot as composite armor.

You could still play a harasser and be effective, but you wouldn't be able to maraud through enemy lines as easily - you'd have to play more of a perimeter role.

I really think some people are getting their undies in a bunch over nothing. I didn't see people saying it was absurd to make changes to the scout radar... just that the changes made were absurd.

2 different things.

[Rolfski]

The reward is still there - for your team. People are just pissy about it now because they can't take advantage of it themselves, and THEY get nothing out of it, which sucks.

But that's not bad game design, that's balancing. Bad game design was making a risk-free no-cost map hack available to everyone for months, and then taking it away after everyone got used to it.
That's incredibly bad game design actually. If you do not reward people for offering themselves up and staying on top of a well-hidden Flash that doesn't see them any participation in the fight, you're likely going to have trouble getting people volunteering for it.

Reward is everything when you want players to perform certain actions in a game and right now, sitting idle on top of a Flash has become the most unrewarded thing to do in this game overnight for 99% of the player base.

[Dragonskin]

Whoa. someone who gets it. Mr Dragonskin up here who thinks he knows best for everyone could learn a thing or two.

Sorry, didn't realize you fell into the crowd that needed rewards every time you fart and cough in a game. You know Infiltrators went a very long time without any reward for their radar darts at all.

So not only are you crying that you need to stay with your vehicle, but now you are upset that you don't get some minor exp while doing it... like that exp would ever make up for the fact that you aren't actually killing targets or capping points. 1 point cap... just switching the node from enemy faction to ally is worth 3 enemies killed while revealed by radar. 1 enemy killed is worth 6 enemies killed while reveled by radar at the absolute best... you would have to have 40-50 enemies revealed by radar and killed to even come close to equalling 1 high threat target kill.

So do you really understand what you are crying over?

[Fenrys]

As someone who abused this on my flash I'm glad they removed it. The radar on my lightening with anti inf, infra-red and min reload time however is still viable :evil:

The fix feels quick and dirty, but I'm also glad they changed it.

Before the change, you could park a Radar Flash someplace then get back into your Smoke/Fire Supp. Lightning. You now need to give something up to get the same effect.


Reward is everything when you want players to perform certain actions in a game and right now, sitting idle on top of a Flash has become the most unrewarded thing to do in this game overnight for 99% of the player base.

Less people using it means bigger psychological rewards for the players who do. IMO, watching the map turn purple is its own reward, and successfully herding cats by showing them where the mice are hiding feels like taking pressure off of me to personally stamp out every fire and fix every compromised generator. I love watching the dots and thinking, "yeah that red dot is totally screwed" when it gets rushed by XP hungry blue dots.