Water

[GeoGnome]

So I raised this question on the PS2 forums (https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/water.144561/) already, so I thought I would bring it up here now.

We now have a base, where there is a substantial volume of water in and around the base: Foggerty Dam.

How should this effect players? Should people be able to swim? Should magriders hover above water? Should Guns work when you dip under water? Should you be able to get a respirator?

How should water play into the battles on Auraxis?

[Eggy]

As far as I can see its not water. Its green and liquidy, but not water. It also insta gibbs you.
It also surounded by a non functional sewage treatment plant, so I wouldnt recommend going for a swim.

The water is all the small puddles and ponds you can drive around in, with all the lillies and interesting flora. Its deeper than weve seen so far, you can hide tank mines udner the surface but you can still drive through it.

You hit it you die, much like I expect lava to be.

PS1 did water great.
Infantry got a couple of seconds to respond otherwise insta gibbed.
In a ground vehicle insta gibbed.

PS2 should do something similar to this for when we get propper navigatble water.
I would say that we need a deliver sized vehicle (5 man) that is amphibious.
All the MBTs can equip a module allowing amphibious.
A resiprator, diving fins and a spear gun for recons.

Leave the rest of the water combat and water crossing to the boat/naval units.
We dont want too much cross over or it becomes a balance nightmare.

[AThreatToYou]

For one, Gauss weapons should 100% work underwater, beginning my approach from a technical standpoint. NC weapons thusly should have no problems firing underwater.

Vanu weapons may be different. If the plasma generator is on the end of the weapon, then I don't think they would be able to fire underwater. But that's a moot point, as we see Vanu weapons being allowed more accuracy depending on the length of the barrel, making me imagine the generator is inside the weapon. They should be able to fire a short time after being submerged. If water fills the barrel, then it shouldn't fire.

TR weapons use the standard of sci-fi weaponry; more advanced bullets. Cartridges containing their own fuel, propellent, and part of an ignition system. Disregarding possible mechanical malfunctions, which is unlikely for Terran reliable weaponry, they should be able to fire underwater at all times.

My final verdict is, all factions weapons should fire underwater. The VS can have some fancy forcefield that keeps water out of the chamber.

Should players swim? I don't think so. Instead you should just walk slowly underwater. You're weighed down by lots of sci-fi gear. Maybe your jump height would be extended.

Damage degradation over distance in water should be greatly exaggerated. Greatly.

Mags should float over water.
Vehicles should have an extended period to be able to get out of the water. The driver and the like shouldn't be killed when the timer goes out; the vehicle is simply disabled for a few seconds before Auraxis reclaims it.

[fierce deity]

For one, Gauss weapons should 100% work underwater, beginning my approach from a technical standpoint. NC weapons thusly should have no problems firing underwater.

Vanu weapons may be different. If the plasma generator is on the end of the weapon, then I don't think they would be able to fire underwater. But that's a moot point, as we see Vanu weapons being allowed more accuracy depending on the length of the barrel, making me imagine the generator is inside the weapon. They should be able to fire a short time after being submerged. If water fills the barrel, then it shouldn't fire.

TR weapons use the standard of sci-fi weaponry; more advanced bullets. Cartridges containing their own fuel, propellent, and part of an ignition system. Disregarding possible mechanical malfunctions, which is unlikely for Terran reliable weaponry, they should be able to fire underwater at all times.

My final verdict is, all factions weapons should fire underwater. The VS can have some fancy forcefield that keeps water out of the chamber.

Should players swim? I don't think so. Instead you should just walk slowly underwater. You're weighed down by lots of sci-fi gear. Maybe your jump height would be extended.

Damage degradation over distance in water should be greatly exaggerated. Greatly.

Mags should float over water.
Vehicles should have an extended period to be able to get out of the water. The driver and the like shouldn't be killed when the timer goes out; the vehicle is simply disabled for a few seconds before Auraxis reclaims it.

I like this. VS weapons though should always work as plasma is so hot the water would instantly vaporize, and the generator would have to be heavily shielded anyways to contain the plasma.

[Sledgecrushr]

If you fire a bullet into water it will only travel about a foot before it loses all of its velocity. Even if a gauss weapon could fire underwater the rounds wouldnt go anywhere. This is why we need a ns torpedo gun.

[AThreatToYou]

SCI-FI BULLETS

or something

[bobtheflower]

This is actually a topic that has come up for me a few times with friends. I made a bee-line for the dam as soon as i saw it and was really disappointed when it turned out to be a flat insta-gib texture plane, i was hoping for something more.

Not only does it look a lot like the surrounding area, there is no indication that its so deadly, not to mention its not actually water at all, disappointing. I hope we see actual water when hossin is revealed but i'm not holding my breath (water-based pun, hur.)

Personally, i think it should be much the same as PS1, players should have a moment or two - say, 5-10 seconds - of being completely submerged (and struggling to swim) before they 'glubglub' die. Its reasonable (too much armour + weapons + gear to swim properly) but no regulators or air tanks, so you can't breath underwater.

If they really want to add the ability to swim and whatnot - and they could, but they have to actually make water first anyway - they could add some sort of implant option, or a suit slot, that allows you a limited breathing time under water, which gives a much longer dead timer. This means you could swim across a lake or river to the back of a base. However, since there isn't much water around yet, its not a big deal. I would like, eventually, to see it play more of a role and make the world feel alive.

Magriders should skim across the water, but probably at reduced speed, much like PS1. A big part of the magrider is its versatility, and in PS1 that was shown by being the only tank to go over water, it was a big deal. Its something the magrider has been missing for awhile, and its what i feel it needs to bring it to par (and by this i mean the NC have their classic shield and the TR the classic lockdown. I always felt the fact it hovers over water was a bit deal for the VS tank, and that dynamic is completely missing at the moment).

At a reduced speed, they would also be sitting ducks out there for other tanks and without cover, AT weapons, so its not like its a huge advantage either.

One of the reasons i want 'real water' is because i want to slosh through knee-deep water in this swamp continent, I want to take fire from the enemy and watch the bullets splash as they hit the water around me while i try to take cover in the huge roots of a half-submerged tree. I want to slink through muddy rivers in the dead of night as i approach a base from the water-and-tree clogged back side, where you think you're safe because tanks can't get in.

I want to fight in a base where one side is backed by the lapping the waves, fighting with my back to deadly water, risking air and amphibious attacks from the rear.

Not only is good water physics an awesome thing to see, its almost required. I've noticed - i'm sure you all have - that there isn't a lot of water anyway, thats because there is no real water in the game, but they have put some in there, and any time you run across it, it shows just how poor the stop-gap they are using is, and it makes you realise how much cooler it would be if it exists.

But on top of that, Hossin is supposed to be all swampy.. and while i saw a fair bit of 'water', there wasn't a LOT, and after all, its not even real water. With that in mind, proper water is the single biggest thing I want to see revealed when hossin goes live. There doesn't even have to be as much of it as i would like, just that what exists, is actual water and not an insta-gib texture plane.

[WSNeo]

I'll just leave this here to add a bit to the discussion.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/comments/1jisur/so_higby_magriders_cant_float_over_water_on_hossin/

[Zadexin]

What should they do with water, simple....BOATS!!!

How cool would it be to have an entire continent of ISLANDS. So instead of Flashes and harassers we get jetskiis and, jetboats and Sunderers as landing craft?

I know its never going to happen, but how sweet would that be?:)

[GeoGnome]

What should they do with water, simple....BOATS!!!

How cool would it be to have an entire continent of ISLANDS. So instead of Flashes and harassers we get jetskiis and, jetboats and Sunderers as landing craft?

I know its never going to happen, but how sweet would that be?:)

Well, if you check the PS2 keynote, at the end someone asked about Boats, and they said it is something they want to eventually do.

[camycamera]

i think it would be fairly easy to add working water into the game. just add effects of going into water and make it so you can swim, and stuff. i really hope to see other continents that have large bodies of water between them, so only aircraft and boats can only get across, like the battle islands.

[Carbon Copied]

I kind of feel that water that's deep enough to be submerged in (i.e boats/swimming etc.) would just detract from the pace of the game; I don't see it as something thats needed outside the scale of environmental shifts.

That said though if they were to create some kind of submerged installation complex...

[Klypto]

Submerged engine blocks should kill the engine.

Submerged driver /passenger compartments should damage the crew and kill them if they don't get out in time.

Water instagibbing vehicles is some really cheesy stuff. If they were able to pull the vehicle back out again and let it sit "dry off" for a moment it should still work. The chances of them accomplishing this are slim, so the vehicle will eventually time out and de-rez.

Projectiles in water should have very short ranges depending on the velocity of the gun. Overall just not effective at all.

Infantry should sink like rocks.

Walking on the bottom should be slow.

Hitting water too fast should hurt.

Drop podding into water should be a really bad idea.

Magriders should be able float on water.

[asdfPanda]

From a gameplay standpoint, this is how I believe water should be implemented:
Vehicles should be able to drive in the water (fording) up until a certain depth, tanks being able to go to larger depths than say, a harasser. When a vehicle reaches that depth, warning lights and sirens will start blaring until the player gets back to dry land. Swimming for infantry should also be taken into consideration.
Throw in ships/boats and submarines into the mix, and you would have 3 theaters of war, ground, air and sea.

[GreyFrog]

Shit, with the amount of armour and gear players wear no one should be able to swim (ok maybe Infils). So I'm fine with never having that mechanic, but insta gibbing flat planes *sigh*

[Whiteagle]

What should they do with water, simple....BOATS!!!

How cool would it be to have an entire continent of ISLANDS. So instead of Flashes and harassers we get jetskiis and, jetboats and Sunderers as landing craft?

I know its never going to happen, but how sweet would that be?:)
I'd wait for Intercontinental Vehicle Transfers (AKA Oldschool Warpgates) before working on Naval warfare...

...Why?

Because once we have a system in place where a transit screen pops up if you move a vehicle into a particular field, it would be a simply matter of applying that to map boundries.
Throw in a few oceanic maps with some sparse "Island" plateaus and BAM, YOU HAVE INTERCONTINENTAL WARFARE!

From a gameplay standpoint, this is how I believe water should be implemented:
Vehicles should be able to drive in the water (fording) up until a certain depth, tanks being able to go to larger depths than say, a harasser. When a vehicle reaches that depth, warning lights and sirens will start blaring until the player gets back to dry land. Swimming for infantry should also be taken into consideration.
Throw in ships/boats and submarines into the mix, and you would have 3 theaters of war, ground, air and sea.
Well the Original Planetside had something like this already in place, Vehicles and Infantry could wade to a certain depth before they'd get a meter ticking down how long they had until they stalled out/started taking Damage...

...Which is why a LACK of such a system is rather odd for Planetside 2...

[Ghoest9]

PS1 did water great.
Infantry got a couple of seconds to respond otherwise insta gibbed.



Ummm no. thats not the way it worked.

You had I think it was 60 seconds(maybe it was 30.)

In the right armor with you could sprint across underneath some bridges underwater with out dying.

[Greenthy]

Do what tribes 2 did with water:
Make it just slow you down and cut visibility lower.
In Tribes 2 you could fly your shrike under water, pop up, jump out, jetpack to the flag, grab it and land in your shrike again.

Downside of water was that it was a maze, sort off like how the cave entrances are in planetside 1.

Tanks could just as easily submerge and go at a very slow rate. Amfibious / hover crafts can speed along ontop of the water.

[RANDOMpercent]

I think that Infantry should be able to wade in water up to about their waist. they'd be slowed down by the water depending on how deep they are. If only their feet are in you still move at about the same speed, If your in up to your waist you move half speed and can't sprint. any further and you won't be able to fire your gun and eventually you die. makes it so that water isn't instadeath but does give you an extreme disadvantage.

[Rolfski]

Like naval combat and space combat, I rather have the devs not spending too much time on water atm. There are more urgent things in this game that need to be flashed out. Unless they're getting serious about naval combat, water play doesn't really add much to the gameplay besides adding more diversity to the landscape.

Besides for some swimming, driving-through, high speed crashing and sinking animations, I'm completely fine with water atm.

Maybe at some later stage they can add water rich continents that allows for some Battlefield 3/Far Cry3 -like boat combat before moving to oceans and serious naval combat. But even with these games, water combat wasn't all that fun and exciting.

Come to think of it, I have a heard time remembering a game where naval combat was actually fun.

[Rivenshield]

Well, if you check the PS2 keynote, at the end someone asked about Boats, and they said it is something they want to eventually do.

Eventually. Like cont locks and... maybe sancs, and maybe flying battleships, and maybe a seamless world, and maybe this and maybe that.

This whole fucking game has been so poorly thought out and they've had to backtrack and eat crow and redesign things to conform with what we TOLD them, BEGGED them to do, in beta; and the rate of development has proceeded at such a molasses-slow rate since March; and they're still half-assing most of what they do.... sky domes instead of covered causeways and big giant fences instead of actual walls you can stand on.... and I'm bored.

Even when a conventional FPS starts to wear thin you can always jump back in at will after work, find a full server, and be guaranteed a good fight right away. Here I have to warp from one cont to the next, see what's going on there, spawn, suicide, respawn, find out I can't go where I want to go, get pissed, grab a Mossie, fly in an exasperated hurry over to the one part of the map where things are popping, get shot down, then find out I can't respawn at the NEXT FRIGGING BASE WE HOLD IN THE LATTICE to draw some armor to relieve my besieged comrades in the spawn-outhouse, but must needs join them and be farmed myself... and half the time anymore, I say fuckit and log. Even when I can find a good fight within five-ten minutes, it's always fighting the same people in the same direction over the same terrain... something rotating WG's and sancs would eliminate.

I'm sorry for the ill-tempered rant, but fuck 'eventually.' PS1 was better thought-out and landed in our laps with rivers, choke points that were contestable by both sides, defensible bases that allowed a smaller force to cockblock a larger -- at least for awhile -- a command channel, spawns that weren't vehicle-farmable death traps, and much else besides. The Vanoobs SHOULD be able to cross that swamp or river or lake at will; we SHOULD be able to line the bank with weak-but-plentiful mines and egg them into trying to cross there by bouncing rifle bullets off their hulls; we SHOULD have sanctuaries so we can park our vehicles in row upon row of empire-specific might and admire ourselves and have our commanders tell us where we're going...

....and they're supposed to have a fully-fleshed game complete with strategic metagame ready for the launch of the PS4; and they've Super-Glued the future of the franchise to the PS4 launch date, same as they glued the launch of *this* disjointed mess to the Alpha Squad...

...and the silly bastards haven't even figured out how to put in WATER yet.

*FUCK*

/stomps off