Further repercussions to the ESF vertical thrust nerf.

[snafus]

http://www.twitch.tv/planetside2/b/446321808
So after the recent command center, Higby again stated they wanted to tie Fuel pods to vertical thrust. Higby also went into on how they are trying to break the mold of reliance on the reverse maneuver for pilots to be successful. I wanted to create this thread as a warning to the devs and the community that they will be making a large mistake.

By forcing players to utilize the fuel pods to have current vertical thrust they will again create a scenario that will dictate A2A wins. Simply put It, doesn't matter what new and cool guns SOE tries to sell us if the fuel tanks give 75% improved vertical thrust you won't be hitting that pilot. This change will not only create an even larger gap between ace pilots and new or bad players. But will also reflect poorly on SOE sales as word will get out that you won't be able to compete in A2A combat without that improved vertical thrust.

Now on the point of sales I warn SOE now not to go the route of greed. If by chance they already knew that the Fuel pod reliance would take place I have a sinking feeling they will attempt to sell new Fuel tanks to us. I warn you SOE that that kind of maneuvering will be another PR blunder as the flying community will not be happy to be nerfed to that degree. Then be asked to pay another 7$ to return to a competitive state.

I ask that players take time and thoughtfully think out on how these new changes will affect the overall balance between setups. I truly do feel that if the nerf takes place, and to obtain current vertical thrust we will have to use fuel tanks. There will be another cycle of reliance on one setup to stay competitive among the top tier of flyers. And by reducing vertical thrust by such a vast degree you will force players to lose options to stay relevant in the current flying scene.

Do you feel the changes will force reliance on fuel tanks? Or is this the correct ways to make rock/paper/scissors for air combat? Please share your thoughts on the matter and try to keep the feed back constructive.

[HereticusXZ]

I think I'm confused... So We'll need fuel pods in order to perform a effective maneuver? As opposed to just having every ESF already be able to perform it regardless of the ESF equipment?

I could very possibly be misunderstanding the effect of the whole "Nerf" because I'm a Tanker, I don't fly much, but with that said... As I understand it portion of this ESF change is defining the vertical thrust: Default vanilla ESF can still perform these crazy maneuvers but not with as much power behind it to make it faster. ESF with the fuel pods and the proper airframe can do the same maneuver but with greater force, so it's much more effective/responsive? Do I have that right?

I know as a Tanker if you want to win a tank fight you go with a AP Tank Destroyer build, barring if the enemy Tank is talented, your usually going to win a Tank duel. Isn't it the same principle with ESF? If you want to win in the air-game then you run a A2A build

[snafus]

I think I'm confused... So We'll need fuel pods in order to perform a effective maneuver? As opposed to just having every ESF already be able to perform it regardless of the ESF equipment?

I could very possibly be misunderstanding the effect of the whole "Nerf" because I'm a Tanker, I don't fly much, but with that said... As I understand it portion of this ESF change is defining the vertical thrust: Default vanilla ESF can still perform these crazy maneuvers but not with as much power behind it to make it faster. ESF with the fuel pods and the proper airframe can do the same maneuver but with greater force, so it's much more effective/responsive? Do I have that right?

I know as a Tanker if you want to win a tank fight you go with a AP Tank Destroyer build, barring if the enemy Tank is talented, your usually going to win a Tank duel through a combination of firepower and the right use of faction specific abilities. Shouldn't it be the same with ESF? a ESF with a A2A build will naturally destroy all but the most talented pilots?

No the nerf will only reduce vertical thrust. That means if you are in a hover position you will now move X amount slower then before. The issue comes in when using fuel tanks will be the only competitive option for A2A usage. As A2AM and all of the new weapons will be far less effective due to their inability to track pilots who utilize the fuel pods. It isn't a matter of A2A killing A2G, it is one aspect of A2A that beats all other setups. Which is supposedly what the dev team is trying to stop with the nerf to vertical thrust.

[phungus]

Just to play devils advocate :evil::


It does make sense. You sacrifice firepower for manueverability or vice versa. Forcing aces to decide whether they want to give up their pods or locusts for more manueverability - seems like a reasonable trade off to me. It will also allow less skilled players who haven't mastered Vthrust flight and it's dodging abilities to take more firepower (namely locusts, A2Am, or Coyotes) which will allow them to bring their combat efficacy up without needing the 100s of hours it takes to really master Vthrust hover dueling and dodge manuevers, since aces who have mastered that manueverability will be taking AB tanks.

If you want more firepower, you're going to have to give up that manueverability which will put you at a distinct disadvantage against other A2A focused ESFs who take tanks and have the skill + experience to use them.

[finder]

"Do you feel the changes will force reliance on fuel tanks?"
I have a feeling that it will, as right now every ESF can do the RM with out AB pods. AB pods just allow pilots to pull of the maneuver longer/often.

meaning that if I go with something other then AB pods I can still pull of most of if not all the maneuvers someone with AB pods can do, only I have less time to use my after burners. giving me some, some, chance to turn the tables in a fight if that pilot did not down me already.

Which leads me to ask for an A2A load out why use any of the new weapons if AB pods give you that much of an advantage to out maneuver me, making my pretty new A2A weapon(s) useless?

[phungus]

Which leads me to ask for an A2A load out why use any of the new weapons if AB pods give you that much of an advantage to out maneuver me, making my pretty new A2A weapon(s) useless?

Because locusts and rocket pods drastically increase your firepower. Against 90% of the ESFs I'd engage that will be very benificial, only against the other top ESF pilots will AB tanks be critical in dueling situations, and arguably also in 2v1 or 3v1 Ace vs competent pilots where the dodging abilities of AB tanks will shine (but these types of engagements are really alot like ace vs ace hoverduels anyway), in fact locusts may be superior in the 2v1s simply because your TTK is very important in these engagements.

Currently, outside of flying a reaver, or when I'm flying drunk, I never consider AB tanks. Rocket pods or A2Am are simply superior. With this change AB tanks will likely be more of a real choice. Especially in regard to the choice of locusts vs AB tanks, that's going to be a really tough choice for me every time.

[snafus]

Just to play devils advocate :evil::


It does make sense. You sacrifice firepower for manueverability or vice versa. Forcing aces to decide whether they want to give up their pods or locusts for more manueverability - seems like a reasonable trade off to me. It will also allow less skilled players who haven't mastered Vthrust flight and it's dodging abilities to take more firepower (namely locusts, A2Am, or Coyotes) which will allow them to bring their combat efficacy up without needing the 100s of hours it takes to really master Vthrust hover dueling and dodge manuevers, since aces who have mastered that manueverability will be taking AB tanks.

If you want more firepower, you're going to have to give up that manueverability which will put you at a distinct disadvantage against other A2A focused ESFs who take tanks and have the skill + experience to use them.

Again the big issue is the firepower will be useless in lesser skilled pilots hands due to the nature of the A2A combat. They simply won't be able to utilize these weapons when engaged with a veteran pilot using fuel pods. They will be the only choice for true air dominance and will again force a trend.

[phungus]

The more I think about it the more I like the balance this will create. Hell if I had my way I'd make it so you chose between afterburners or a secondary, but I'd buff the hell out of Rocket Pods (well really just put them back to pre nerf levels).

From what I'm hearing I'm not longer at risk of losing my reverse manuever, in fact it sounds like fully certed AB tanks might even buff that plus Vthrust dodging. I think AB tanks should get some kind of advantage, and I have no problem with the added firepower of a secondary weapon removes some manueverability.

[snafus]

The more I think about it the more I like the balance this will create. Hell if I had my way I'd make it so you chose between afterburners or a secondary, but I'd buff the hell out of Rocket Pods (well really just put them back to pre nerf levels).

From what I'm hearing I'm not longer at risk of losing my reverse manuever, in fact it sounds like fully certed AB tanks might even buff that plus Vthrust dodging. I think AB tanks should get some kind of advantage, and I have no problem with the added firepower of a secondary weapon removes some manueverability.

There lies the issue as A2G ESF will now be near incompetent as they will have a much harder time avoiding ground based fire. And there will only be one viable A2A engagement option, fuel tanks. They are not adding depth but taking depth away from the flying community. If they left vertical thrust alone and gave fuel tanks their advantage it would leave secondary options more available between ESF. AS the fuel tanks wouldn't give such a massive advantage over other setups.

They stated they wanted to see an end of pilots relying on one aspect to carry dog fighting. They have simply created another setup that will be mandatory for ESF pilots to compete in the air. All of these new secondary weapons will mean nothing when your opponent has potentially 75% better vertical thrust.

[PredatorFour]

You make a valid point Snafus and i agree completely. However, i'd wager that a good pilot with locusts can down an ace purely because of the spam factor with a large clip weapon (afford to miss and still kill) even if they're flying all over the place thrusting away.

[snafus]

You make a valid point Snafus and i agree completely. However, i'd wager that a good pilot with locusts can down an ace purely because of the spam factor with a large clip weapon (afford to miss and still kill) even if they're flying all over the place thrusting away.

I end the majority of my fights without being touched by my opponents. And the fact that I will have a potentially superior vertical thrust he will have a very hard time keeping a bead on me. Aim will still be a factor as many a ESF pilot simply cannot keep rounds on target, large magazine or not.

[Rolfski]

The hole idea behind this is for mediocre pilots to rely on lock-on missiles in dogfights while every decent pilot will definitely cert into afterburner.

In theory this could work but needs very careful balancing.

Lock-on missiles need to be good enough to give a mediocre pilot something of a chance because loosing out on manoeuvrability is a very big deal in this game. Not only against air but against ground as well.

[Boildown]

You will say anything to ForumSide your way into keeping the reverse maneuver. I just hope they act on the merits, not the vocal minority.

[snafus]

You will say anything to ForumSide your way into keeping the reverse maneuver. I just hope they act on the merits, not the vocal minority.

What?

[Whiteagle]

If you want more firepower, you're going to have to give up that manueverability which will put you at a distinct disadvantage against other A2A focused ESFs who take tanks and have the skill + experience to use them.
Indeed, I never mastered the Reverse Manuver, so anything that reduces its need as the end-all-be-all skill for Air combat is alright in my book.

Especially in regard to the choice of locusts vs AB tanks, that's going to be a really tough choice for me every time.
I KNOW right?
I really wish I could see how effective the Coyotes are in a real fight, but the only pilot I found to duel on Test was running Stealth 4, so I switched to Locust.

Again the big issue is the firepower will be useless in lesser skilled pilots hands due to the nature of the A2A combat. They simply won't be able to utilize these weapons when engaged with a veteran pilot using fuel pods. They will be the only choice for true air dominance and will again force a trend.
Well unless they team up and hit you with all those "OP A2A MISSILES!!!"

...Or somehow manage to kill you with their own debris...
...But that would NEVER happen, would it?

[GeoGnome]

There lies the issue as A2G ESF will now be near incompetent as they will have a much harder time avoiding ground based fire. And there will only be one viable A2A engagement option, fuel tanks. They are not adding depth but taking depth away from the flying community. If they left vertical thrust alone and gave fuel tanks their advantage it would leave secondary options more available between ESF. AS the fuel tanks wouldn't give such a massive advantage over other setups.

They stated they wanted to see an end of pilots relying on one aspect to carry dog fighting. They have simply created another setup that will be mandatory for ESF pilots to compete in the air. All of these new secondary weapons will mean nothing when your opponent has potentially 75% better vertical thrust.

I had heard you can still do the Reverse thrust maneuver with hover 3. So, you can still Do the reverse thrust move using your standard loadout.

This is sidestepping that the primary roll that ESFs seem to be, being set up for, is to be AA

[snafus]

Well unless they team up and hit you with all those "OP A2A MISSILES!!!"

...Or somehow manage to kill you with their own debris...
...But that would NEVER happen, would it?

These new changes will make it far more difficult for pilots of your skill level whiteagle. Think the RM was a problem before? Just wait till the AB tank users are dancing circles around you. But in a positive view of the outcome of this change, A2AM users will be far less effective as they will have massive difficulties keeping eyes on targets.

[Ghoest9]

The only ramification I see is forum tears.

[snafus]

I had heard you can still do the Reverse thrust maneuver with hover 3. So, you can still Do the reverse thrust move using your standard loadout.

This is sidestepping that the primary roll that ESFs seem to be, being set up for, is to be AA

You can do the RM with out any frame on the PST. The issue is not the inability to have vertical thrust. It is the amount they reduced it by which was 75% last I checked. Among your top tier fliers the slightest change in performance will be the end of you. Take away 75% vertical thrust from any non fuel pods user and you will see a massive dependency created on that setup.

[Whiteagle]

But in a positive view of the outcome of this change, A2AM users will be far less effective as they will have massive difficulties keeping eyes on targets.
...You don't know what Coyote Missiles are, do you?

[snafus]

...You don't know what Coyote Missiles are, do you?

They're garbage, I really do hope pilots use them as it will be comic relief during air ops.

[NUKABAZOOKA]

They're garbage, I really do hope pilots use them as it will be comic relief during air ops.

I'll use them just to make you mad.

[Whiteagle]

I'll use them just to make you mad.
You have my support good sir!

[Baneblade]

This is a troll thread.

[NoXousX]

You make a valid point Snafus and i agree completely. However, i'd wager that a good pilot with locusts can down an ace purely because of the spam factor with a large clip weapon (afford to miss and still kill) even if they're flying all over the place thrusting away.

your sig makes me LOL


Anyways, I pretty much agree with everything Snafu has said in the past 3 weeks, except I'm jelli he is 20kph faster stock that my scythe.

[Sunrock]

Well personally I think it's a good idea that they nerf the hover thrust and make A2A combat feel like you're flying a plain and not a chopper.

However giving us fuel pods that can turn our plains into choppers will be a bad idea as it's allot easer to win a dog fight if you can turn 180º on a dime without loosing allot of altitude. So IMO it's just a stupid way to force players to buy new items for planes as the OP pointed out.

PS: Only way I see it to be valid is if the new tanks will reduce the speed with 50%.

[Blynd]

Tbh I think most of the whine is coming from those pilots who won't be able to farm the ground and have the RM available. They will have to have several loadouts to be able to compete not just a set of rocket pods and that scares them cause they only know how to do 1 thing (2 if you count daddys ability to logoff mid combat :)) so most of the top pilots will be fine but those who have huge ke due to lolpodding will find they will suffer an I think its about time :)

[KesTro]

These new changes will make it far more difficult for pilots of your skill level whiteagle. Think the RM was a problem before? Just wait till the AB tank users are dancing circles around you. But in a positive view of the outcome of this change, A2AM users will be far less effective as they will have massive difficulties keeping eyes on targets.

I disagree. I am one of those cursed A2A missiles users, always have been always will be. My goal when I get into the air is to clear as much people out of the air as I can. A2AM are far too effective of a tool not to utilize.

Even with the changes I don't have too hard of a time keeping track of my target and following them, if anything I find it slightly easier because I'm forced to keep my eyes on them instead of "lol fire and forget".

[snafus]

I disagree. I am one of those cursed A2A missiles users, always have been always will be. My goal when I get into the air is to clear as much people out of the air as I can. A2AM are far too effective of a tool not to utilize.

Even with the changes I don't have too hard of a time keeping track of my target and following them, if anything I find it slightly easier because I'm forced to keep my eyes on them instead of "lol fire and forget".

With the original lock ons that is still a viable possibility. But with the new A2AM and its reduced range it will force a lot of pilots to close the gap. Leaving anyone with fuel tanks the clear advantage as they will potentially be breaking LOS. Though personal experience will vary I really don't see the new A2AM being an issue for most veteran pilots.

[snafus]

Tbh I think most of the whine is coming from those pilots who won't be able to farm the ground and have the RM available. They will have to have several loadouts to be able to compete not just a set of rocket pods and that scares them cause they only know how to do 1 thing (2 if you count daddys ability to logoff mid combat :)) so most of the top pilots will be fine but those who have huge ke due to lolpodding will find they will suffer an I think its about time :)

Top tier pilots will still farm you. Some may change their methods but in the end if you were a victim before your status won't change. Weather it be via rocket pods or rotary the infantry of PS2 will still be farmed.

[Blynd]

Top tier pilots will still farm you. Some may change their methods but in the end if you were a victim before your status won't change. Weather it be via rocket pods or rotary the infantry of PS2 will still be farmed.

I know that but my point us that most of the whine is from that level of pilot that are good but not the best dogfighters they fly purely for the lolpod stat padding the top pilots will adapt and own A2A and A2G as they do now but they will only be able to do one or the other at any one time not both which us how it is now. That's what these changes are ment to do, force people to utilize multiple loafouts not 1 jack of all trades spec.

[snafus]

I know that but my point us that most of the whine is from that level of pilot that are good but not the best dogfighters they fly purely for the lolpod stat padding the top pilots will adapt and own A2A and A2G as they do now but they will only be able to do one or the other at any one time not both which us how it is now. That's what these changes are ment to do, force people to utilize multiple loafouts not 1 jack of all trades spec.

That is one of the big problems is there were multiple other ways to do that without gutting the over all flight aspect of the game. By simply forcing Rocket pods to be split up in damage types would have done wonders for the A2G game variety. And with them making fuel tanks the only viable A2A option they are simply forcing another trend of everyone rolls one setup.

[NoXousX]

I know that but my point us that most of the whine is from that level of pilot that are good but not the best dogfighters they fly purely for the lolpod stat padding the top pilots will adapt and own A2A and A2G as they do now but they will only be able to do one or the other at any one time not both which us how it is now. That's what these changes are ment to do, force people to utilize multiple loafouts not 1 jack of all trades spec.

I hate the term lolpodders because for one they really aren't LOL any more. I guess they enable some lesser pilots to kill infantry, but I can only think of one time I've died to rocket pods on the ground in the past 3 weeks. (Yes believe it or not I do get out of my aircraft sometimes).

But on top of that it seems like a lot of players look at aircraft as some annoying pest that makes their life miserable. In their ideal world we would fly around at 1000m and just fight eachother all day. But what does that accomplish? Last I checked (correct me if I'm wrong), Allatum Biolab isn't 1200m in the air. It's on the effing ground. This whole game is on the ground. The meta game is on the ground. Do you see what I'm getting at? Air will always be fighting ground because this is a ground-based game. When my outfit runs ops, our air squad has 1 mission: Support the ground. When I fly my scythe, I focus on the ground. Yes I lolpod infantry, but only if I can't get my Turbolaser lined up first. However if you check my stats, I have 9200 Turbolaser kills, and only 6500 Dual Photon Pod kills. I don't need Photon Pods to kill infantry. I use them to affect the ground game directly by targeting armor and finishing off aircraft.

I hate to break it to you guys, but LOLpods are here to stay, especially as long as libs aren't able to take part in large fights. I know of a few guys that get a hardon dogfighting all day, but they are few and far between. And whether or not I have them equipped I'll still be making high speed passes chiseling away at infantry. When I'm dogfighting it's self defense. I kill them so that they don't kill me, and I can get back to my primary focus, the ground.

[Sunrock]

I hate the term lolpodders because for one they really aren't LOL any more. I guess they enable some lesser pilots to kill infantry, but I can only think of one time I've died to rocket pods on the ground in the past 3 weeks. (Yes believe it or not I do get out of my aircraft sometimes).

But on top of that it seems like a lot of players look at aircraft as some annoying pest that makes their life miserable. In their ideal world we would fly around at 1000m and just fight eachother all day. But what does that accomplish? Last I checked (correct me if I'm wrong), Allatum Biolab isn't 1200m in the air. It's on the effing ground. This whole game is on the ground. The meta game is on the ground. Do you see what I'm getting at? Air will always be fighting ground because this is a ground-based game. When my outfit runs ops, our air squad has 1 mission: Support the ground. When I fly my scythe, I focus on the ground. Yes I lolpod infantry, but only if I can't get my Turbolaser lined up first. However if you check my stats, I have 9200 Turbolaser kills, and only 6500 Dual Photon Pod kills. I don't need Photon Pods to kill infantry. I use them to affect the ground game directly by targeting armor and finishing off aircraft.

I hate to break it to you guys, but LOLpods are here to stay, especially as long as libs aren't able to take part in large fights. I know of a few guys that get a hardon dogfighting all day, but they are few and far between. And whether or not I have them equipped I'll still be making high speed passes chiseling away at infantry. When I'm dogfighting it's self defense. I kill them so that they don't kill me, and I can get back to my primary focus, the ground.

I agree that those that QQ over A2G are usually a bunch of carebear cry babies that can't think three dimensional. And it's very sad to see how they have manage to sway SOE's opinion on the matter as they scream the loudest.

Lets face the facts. The only time air is really threatening to infantry is when you move from base A to base B. In all bases there are enough cover to avoid all air. And as mech. inf. blitzkreig tactics are the most valid option every one that foot zerg between bases have only them self to blame if they are gun down by air. And it's not that ground units can't take down air units either. Even during the time when air was the strongest anti air was never that week that an organized infantry outfit could not deal with all the air units when capturing bases.

I think PS2 vehicle game play have been watered down to a point where Battlefield feels like a better option if you want a decent FPS game that features both infantry and vehicle game play. And this is sad from a guy that have spent the last 4-5 months as 85% of the time as infantry

[Whiteagle]

I hate the term lolpodders because for one they really aren't LOL any more. I guess they enable some lesser pilots to kill infantry, but I can only think of one time I've died to rocket pods on the ground in the past 3 weeks. (Yes believe it or not I do get out of my aircraft sometimes).
Well I think their blast damage has been toned down in anticipation of the Mass Driver taking over for Anti-Armor work, thus they are better for Area Denial instead of outright killing.

But on top of that it seems like a lot of players look at aircraft as some annoying pest that makes their life miserable. In their ideal world we would fly around at 1000m and just fight eachother all day. But what does that accomplish? Last I checked (correct me if I'm wrong), Allatum Biolab isn't 1200m in the air. It's on the effing ground. This whole game is on the ground. The meta game is on the ground. Do you see what I'm getting at? Air will always be fighting ground because this is a ground-based game. When my outfit runs ops, our air squad has 1 mission: Support the ground. When I fly my scythe, I focus on the ground. Yes I lolpod infantry, but only if I can't get my Turbolaser lined up first. However if you check my stats, I have 9200 Turbolaser kills, and only 6500 Dual Photon Pod kills. I don't need Photon Pods to kill infantry. I use them to affect the ground game directly by targeting armor and finishing off aircraft.
Well to be fair the lack of an Air game also stems from how little territory we actually have to fight over...
I mean, Air is suppose to be our Fast Attack option, but when the front averages only kilometers away from your Static Warpgate there isn't really a point...
We have to be patient for true Combined Arms synergy, Air is going to be hamstrung until it gets enough room to truly stretch its legs.
Hopefully we'll get working Warpgates some time this year, which should REALLY go a long ways for increase ALL Aircrafts utility.

I hate to break it to you guys, but LOLpods are here to stay, especially as long as libs aren't able to take part in large fights. I know of a few guys that get a hardon dogfighting all day, but they are few and far between. And whether or not I have them equipped I'll still be making high speed passes chiseling away at infantry. When I'm dogfighting it's self defense. I kill them so that they don't kill me, and I can get back to my primary focus, the ground.
Eh, I don't know...
I think Liberators could participate in Large-scale Battles, it's just that they are far more dependant on the team play aspect of the game then Solo Tanks...
For instance, you need friendly Air to keep Enemy Anti-air off your tail, and you need really good communication between Pilot and Gunner in order to even begin hitting targets.
That's before having a good pair of eyes on the ground to spot potential targets before you you arrive.

[NoXousX]

I think Liberators could participate in Large-scale Battles, it's just that they are far more dependant on the team play aspect of the game then Solo Tanks...
For instance, you need friendly Air to keep Enemy Anti-air off your tail, and you need really good communication between Pilot and Gunner in order to even begin hitting targets.
That's before having a good pair of eyes on the ground to spot potential targets before you you arrive.

Libs can participate until a few long-range unrendered lock-ons show up or a skyguard.

They are a big target for all to see and fire at. Eating tank rounds in a lib (even at high altitudes) could become my day job unfortunately.

[snafus]

Well at this time they have rolled back the Vertical thrust nerf on the PST. Lets just hope that the devs have taken the pilots opinions to heart.

[HelpLuperza]

http://www.twitch.tv/planetside2/b/446321808
So after the recent command center, Higby again stated they wanted to tie Fuel pods to vertical thrust. Higby also went into on how they are trying to break the mold of reliance on the reverse maneuver for pilots to be successful. I wanted to create this thread as a warning to the devs and the community that they will be making a large mistake.

By forcing players to utilize the fuel pods to have current vertical thrust they will again create a scenario that will dictate A2A wins. Simply put It, doesn't matter what new and cool guns SOE tries to sell us if the fuel tanks give 75% improved vertical thrust you won't be hitting that pilot. This change will not only create an even larger gap between ace pilots and new or bad players. But will also reflect poorly on SOE sales as word will get out that you won't be able to compete in A2A combat without that improved vertical thrust.

Now on the point of sales I warn SOE now not to go the route of greed. If by chance they already knew that the Fuel pod reliance would take place I have a sinking feeling they will attempt to sell new Fuel tanks to us. I warn you SOE that that kind of maneuvering will be another PR blunder as the flying community will not be happy to be nerfed to that degree. Then be asked to pay another 7$ to return to a competitive state.

I ask that players take time and thoughtfully think out on how these new changes will affect the overall balance between setups. I truly do feel that if the nerf takes place, and to obtain current vertical thrust we will have to use fuel tanks. There will be another cycle of reliance on one setup to stay competitive among the top tier of flyers. And by reducing vertical thrust by such a vast degree you will force players to lose options to stay relevant in the current flying scene.

Do you feel the changes will force reliance on fuel tanks? Or is this the correct ways to make rock/paper/scissors for air combat? Please share your thoughts on the matter and try to keep the feed back constructive.

So, I though about this alot, and I think that the reverse manuaver does need to change to make things fair for close range AG combat. However, I also think that fuel tanks might not be the way to go. Instead why not make the reverse manuaver utility slot ability just like flares or tie it in with the least used of the 3 frames. Most top tier pilots already have the certs to buy a new weapon/new ability. This way top tier pilots actually have to make a very important decision about what they are going to fight. They maybe be able to take down other ESFs, but they are screwed against lock-ons, skyguard, or AA Gal

I've held of on commenting to really think about these changes.

Does anyone know if SOE has implemented this change yet?