Operation "Miller Boycott" [Archive]

blashyrk

2013-09-12, 02:07 PM

Emperor Newt

2013-09-12, 02:21 PM

ChipMHazard

2013-09-12, 02:25 PM

Let's just be clear about one thing, it's not just the TR who attracts the 4th faction. The 4th faction joins any side that looks like it's winning. Most of the time that is the TR, that much is very true. (On Miller at least)
I would sign a petition to get a restriction on how often you can change factions, heck I would even go with an actual boycott if that's what it takes for the devs to make the change.
Making alerts less lucrative, giving more xp to underpopped factions, less alert xp the higher your pop.. All that won't work since a free win is a free win, imo.

Of course they still need to make it more attractive to play in one of the underpopped factions in general, doing it just won't have much of an effect on the 4th faction joining the winning side during an alert.

Emperor Newt

2013-09-12, 02:34 PM

Yeah, the xp bonuses are a joke too. You are being outnumbered 2:1 or even 3:1. Here: 25% more xp for being repeatedly shot in the face once you step out of the spawn room! F* that.

ChipMHazard

2013-09-12, 02:37 PM

Indeed.

maradine

2013-09-12, 03:14 PM

10x the bonuses, and the problem solves itself overnight. Seriously. I don't understand the reluctance to do it.

Emperor Newt

2013-09-12, 03:19 PM

Maybe they fear that underpop factions no longer have the need to buy xp boosters? Pretty much the only explanation I can come up with because this has been mentioned sooo many times since beta.

ringring

2013-09-12, 03:30 PM

Hang on!

It's the TR's fault they win most alerts. It's the TR's fault the VS and NC absent the battlefield.

It's the TR's fault the moon is made of cheese.

It's the TR's fault the sky is blue and the sea is green too.

Ok.

derito

2013-09-12, 03:39 PM

While the OP may be a little vehement concerning TR players (the loyal ones at least), he still has a point. There should be something to avoid such situations, and the paltry xp bonus we're given hardly counts.

Levente

2013-09-12, 03:39 PM

what the fuck is wrong with you seriously?

JesNC

2013-09-12, 03:43 PM

Still that bad, huh?

And I just reinstalled... :/

Falcon_br

2013-09-12, 03:58 PM

Did someone Say Boycott?
\o/!

Welcome to Waterson Guys, the TR here will welcome you!

Emperor Newt

2013-09-12, 03:59 PM

Still that bad, huh?

And I just reinstalled... :/

Well, pop can be about fine during most hours. But when there is an alert happening things tend to go down the drain. Horribly.

moosepoop

2013-09-12, 04:22 PM

they need to increase underpop bonus to 100%+.

Reithan

2013-09-12, 05:06 PM

As long as the XP for winning on the overpopped side is more than the XP for losing on the underpopped side, 4th faction will be there.

As long as the overpopped side can just surround and camp a spawn and farm anything that sticks out for certs with little or no effort, 4th faction will be there.

As long as the overpopped faction will allow lazy engis and medics and sunderer drivers to just sit in the back and farm certs with near 0 risk, 4th faction will be there.

maradine

2013-09-12, 05:20 PM

Maybe they fear that underpop factions no longer have the need to buy xp boosters?

The beauty is that if they do it, there wouldn't be an underpop faction. 4th factioners race off to fill the gap at a rate proportional to how bad the imbalance is.

Sledgecrushr

2013-09-12, 05:22 PM

If soe would raise the underpop bonus just a bit more i think pops would ballance out a little better.

Reithan

2013-09-12, 06:17 PM

The beauty is that if they do it, there wouldn't be an underpop faction. 4th factioners race off to fill the gap at a rate proportional to how bad the imbalance is.

This.

If you make the underpop bonuses large enough - there will never be an underpop bonus. ;)

Bosanti

2013-09-12, 06:40 PM

The strange thing is, that a lot of time when alert starts the pops are almost balanced, sometimes even tr pop is lower then nc, but maybe 10 or 15 mins into alert it tends to go with over pop of tr, why? I mean honestly why? Do the vs and nc players just log off without even trying? Just remember that 42% doesn't always mean that tr have major pop boost, it is also can be the case of other faction pops dropping by players logging off the game.
I so wish that soe would keep the policy of one empire per server. Sure you can get yourself another acc, but most of those who jumps around wouldn't bother with it, more money to spend, more to do to just log in with another toon.
Also when the reward for the alert was standard without the need to participate in it to get full reward, alerts were more balanced and fun, cos a lot of 4th faction would just switch sides at the last minutes when the victor was sure and nothing could be done.
Oh, well, i realy hope they will fix this, cos alerts are not so fun anymore as they used to be :(

bpostal

2013-09-12, 06:54 PM

Did someone Say Boycott?
\o/!

Welcome to Waterson Guys, the TR here will welcome you!

Wait...I thought you were boycotting Waterson. Or is that over?

Either way, a boycott isn't going to help a damn thing. Sure it may bring attention to an issue that SOE is most likely already knows about but fixing shit? No, that it will not do.
You may not believe me but I know exactly how you feel, during my time in Planetside for the last year or so pre-PS2, the TR were constantly double teamed and almost always fighting on Hossin or Solsar (our home conts) and it got frustrating and disheartening.
There's simply not much that we as players can do (except roll NC or VS but no, I'm not doing that. I've been on this server since it was a server and I'm set in my ways) to alleviate the situation.
My only suggestion would be to roll in one (or more) huge ball of hate and discontent (aka zerg) and spread out geographically speaking only when you possess overwhelming numbers.

camycamera

2013-09-12, 07:01 PM

"SOE doesn't care"

well, when compared to other companies, i think they do care very much.

PredatorFour

2013-09-12, 07:03 PM

No don't go ! You will only make it worse and i will be left on my own to try and thwart the ominous mossie swarms:cry:

bpostal

2013-09-12, 08:05 PM

No don't go ! You will only make it worse and i will be left on my own to try and thwart the ominous mossie swarms:cry:

It may look like a swarm but some of us are just up in the air to give y'all more targets so you can't identify the folks that can actually fly worth a damn.

Chowley

2013-09-12, 08:59 PM

I suppose you just played the Biolab alert too?
Yeah, the situation is getting outright stupid. People in our outfit mumble were pretty.... upset. To put it nicely. It think I wont be playing on Miller anymore during prime time anymore.

I think I'll be checking out Woodman.

I was just saying that to my outfit, playing this game at the moment with TR pop dominance is just fucking massochism. :( makes me sad really. They go so huge on overkill, instead of splitting off small groups, they will send 3 libs, 5 mossies, 2 tanks, 2 ground squads after about 5 people defending. Its horrible. No point in alerts when TR are over 40% pop as well.

Plaqueis

2013-09-13, 06:07 AM

I'm guessing it's more or less the same in every server after the certain weapon was introduced.. on Cobalt it's pretty much 24/7 TR dominance. On the early morning hours you can see balanced fights (populationwise) between TR and NC, but VS is lacking people no matter when you log in, it's either total rape or slower losing fight, depending where most of the VS decides to go.

Its gone so bad that i actually thought about switching server (no clue if it's possible to take your character with you), but if it's the same on others, there's no point.

EDIT1: Ofcourse there's always the option of going the easy mode and joining the horde.. i doubt that having nothing to shoot at would be that much fun though.

EDIT2: I just logged in to see what's going on.. populations are Indar 41% TR, Esamir 62% TR, Amerish 58% TR.. no point trying. I guess i'll go see if there's NC to fight and leave the Striker-republic on their endless ghostcaps.

Blynd

2013-09-14, 04:43 AM

Dont strike rebel all roll tr alts on miller and just tk the crap out of them for an hour the tr pop would be 75%+ but we wouldn't kill anyone but baboons :)

Soe would have to take a look at such a mass tk situation and at the same time see the pop situation.

ringring

2013-09-14, 05:03 AM

KesTro

2013-09-14, 05:50 AM

The fault doesn't lie with the playerbase of a faction it lies with the faction itself. On connery we have the opposite problem although to a lesser extent. Vanu are consistently the highest pop (Which they needed after 7 months of underpop). The enigma that ZOE is OP caused players to gravitate towards VS. Just as the enigma that Strikers and Vulcans are OP causes players to gravitate towards TR.

I would like to add that NC doesn't really have anything that causes peopel to gravitate towards them as everything we have is now 'balanced'. We don't have our 'OP' XP machines as other factions do. So come alert time people are inclined to switch over to the faction that will garner them the most experience.

This could easily turn into something I hadn't intended it to be so for now I will leave it at this:

Population balance = Faction Balance

MaxDamage

2013-09-14, 06:00 AM

So your solution to population imbalance is to actively make it worse.

You didn't think this through did you?

almalino

2013-09-14, 07:06 AM

I play on Miller as NC and I do not mind a lot of Terrans + More kills for my Infiltrator :)

Shogun

2013-09-14, 08:05 AM

all hail the allmighty free to play business model!

as with almost every problem in the game, it only needs 3 letters to bring up a solution: PS1

and i am tired of explaining this in detail, because the devs won´t listen anyways and should already know how to solve it, because they should be familiar with the precessor of their game instead of ignoring everything it has done right.

Crator

2013-09-14, 08:20 AM

Shogun

2013-09-14, 08:32 AM

^ Oh, just say it. :P Dynamic XP, like in PS1. There, I said it. If you steam roll an empire with a zerg and there's no opposition you don't get as much XP for captures. This doesn't solve the alerts and 4th empire though. So obviously bring back the timer to switch empires on the same server, like in PS1. If been saying this since they added the ability to have toons on different empires/same server.

exactly.
and this is only one problem of the game... a simple solution to about 90% of the games problems could be brought up the same way...

i don´t get it! why is it so hard to take a look at ps1? why did they only carry over the parts that sucked, and completely scrapped everything that worked great in ps1? they didn´t even have to steal ideas as ps1 was also a soe game, so i can´t see any reason for this strange behavior.

PredatorFour

2013-09-14, 08:41 AM

i don´t get it! why is it so hard to take a look at ps1? why did they only carry over the parts that sucked, and completely scrapped everything that worked great in ps1? they didn´t even have to steal ideas as ps1 was also a soe game, so i can´t see any reason for this strange behavior.

Cos they never played it. They played battlefield and saw how popular that was and wanted to base the game off that. The class system, that was to solve the PS 1 'One man army' (which came with BR 40 at the end of the games lifespan), is rubbish compared to the limited cert tree system of 1. I'm sure if they really played PS 1 then all the good things would of carried over to the sequel and some things they just HAD to carry over... but they didn't. I'm not saying ps 2 is utter tosh, cos i do enjoy farmside. But that is all it is for me.. farmside.

KesTro

2013-09-14, 10:02 AM

PS1 is dead, it's gone. I'm sorry. :| They have been listening to players and slowly incorporating things that worked in PS1 into PS2 but they are not and never will be the same game. PS1 may have been 'larger' but there was only like 8-12 bases on each map. They can't use everything that worked in PS1 in PS2 because it simply wouldn't work in a lot of scenarios.

Now granted things like Dynamic XP and Faction swap timers I think everybody wants. I guess I'm just tired of people crying about PS1. *shrug*

Rolfski

2013-09-14, 12:18 PM

Plaqueis

2013-09-14, 12:27 PM

So why it is the fault of the TR?

Why isn't it the fault of the VS and NC who won't stay and fight?

So your solution to population imbalance is to actively make it worse.

You didn't think this through did you?

1. It's not TR/VS/NC's fault. It's the developers fault giving one faction an OP weapon that causes few others to become OP too, which then draws the 4th faction in causing huge population imbalance. Go check the 'Oracle Of Death' thread for further information

2. People play for fun. Getting steamrolled by overpopulated faction zerg isn't fun. People leave and/or join the overpopulated side to have fun. Simple really.

ringring

2013-09-14, 01:01 PM

1. It's not TR/VS/NC's fault. It's the developers fault giving one faction an OP weapon that causes few others to become OP too, which then draws the 4th faction in causing huge population imbalance. Go check the 'Oracle Of Death' thread for further information

2. People play for fun. Getting steamrolled by overpopulated faction zerg isn't fun. People leave and/or join the overpopulated side to have fun. Simple really.

What OP weapon? If you're talking about the striker then I can tell you it's been strongly nerfed.

So, do you now expect nc and vs to recover their mojo?

The fault is in the nature of the events themselves. In servers other than miller di9fferent empires dominate I hear and what's more NC and VS don't do so bad outside of alerts, it's just that mostly they go absent for a lot of them.

PredatorFour

2013-09-14, 01:05 PM

I'm fairly confident these population imbalances will iron themselves out once global conquest is in and better xp incentives. Double team TR anyone ?:)

Sunrock

2013-09-14, 01:23 PM

The situation has gotten out of hand. Miller is unplayable. There have been many threads with suggestions on how to fix population issues but SOE doesn't care.

So, I'm calling for a boycott on Miller. We should massively create characters on different servers and leave the TR on Miller by themselves. They certainly won't have a problem being the only faction on the server as they already seem to like winning without a real fight. Maybe if there's nobody but hardened BR>90 veterans left on Miller in factions other than TR, SOE will be forced to shut down Miller or do something to enforce playable population levels.

Well in the last 1-2 weeks TR have lost 50% of the alerts happening between 6 pm and 1am CET. So instead of boycotting miller you maybe should keep up the good work?

However regarding what to do about the pop.... As long as this game is F2P there is nothing no one can do really. All open world PvP games have this problem so it should not come as a surprise to anyone that have played online games for the last 1 to 10 years. Only way to really deal with this is to enforce every one have to pay a sub free and only 1 char per server. But even that will not solve the problem to 100% however its the best way to reduce the phenomena the most with faction jumpers .

Sunrock

2013-09-14, 01:39 PM

I'm fairly confident these population imbalances will iron themselves out once global conquest is in and better xp incentives. Double team TR anyone ?:)

I getting the feeling we are getting tag teamed WWF style all the time. Like for an example yesterday afternoon we warp gated NC at Esamir and to all our surprise 10 Magriders comes to support NC to brake out....

King Duggan & Demolition vs Andre the Giant &The Twin Towers - YouTube

ringring

2013-09-14, 02:06 PM

I getting the feeling we are getting tag teamed WWF style all the time. Like for an example yesterday afternoon we warp gated NC at Esamir and to all our surprise 10 Magriders comes to support NC to brake out....

Getting an impression of being always double-teamed is something that everyone complained of in ps1.

However, they were wrong in a sense. The object of your strategy was to double-team an opposing empire so that they had to retreat and you could advance, but it wasn't the same empire double-teamed all the time, it only felt like it to all sides.

Unless you were TR of course then you really were double-teamed all the time. :evil:

The ultimate problem lies in the existence of 'events' and the non existence of a 'proper' game. Once we get that population imbalances become less of an issue as long as the empires can marshall their forces somewhat. Until then all that can be done is to mitigate the problem by adjusting under-population incentives.

ChipMHazard

2013-09-14, 03:51 PM

Higby stated in a recent interview that a lot of the solutions people have for imbalances/4th empire, like faction-swapping restrictions, are simply not viable because it puts paying players at a disadvantage with free skaters who can just switch accounts for an Alert.

Instead, they're currently looking into ramping up the XP compensation.

I guess his argument relies on the non-paying players being willing to make and switch between multiple accounts. Yes, those players whom have spent money will be at a "disadvantage" compared to those who haven't, when it comes to this... Although I'm not sure what he means by disadvantage, as in when is being able to switch between different factions on the same server an actual advantage?
Then again getting the players whom have spent money to stay with their faction would still be a good thing and would still improve pop balancing during alerts.

Besides never having agreed with SOE's "You can just make a new account, so why not make it easy to do without having to" argument I also don't agree with the arguments that he's put forth this time around. Does SOE have any evidence to support this assumption?
I've never liked that part of the F2P mentality of not wanting to restrict players in any way, shape or form unless it's by a paywall.

Plaqueis

2013-09-14, 04:10 PM

What OP weapon? If you're talking about the striker then I can tell you it's been strongly nerfed.

As far as i know, nothing was done except the fix for the projectiles going thru the solid objects (buildings, ground etc) on their way. Now they just go around them, there's even a post-patch video about this.

I could write up a wall of text here, but i'm not gonna bother. Just one question: Do you actually think that TR players suddenly became just so awesome for no reason so that every server is overpopulated of you all of a sudden?

I'll say not only no, but fuck no. Online players are just the same, regardless the game or the 'side' they decide to play on. If something like this happens, there's most definately a reason behind it, every time. I've played online games for about 20 years, and that's one thing that's never changed, no matter the game.

Only solution i see (besides developers opening their eyes) is either quitting or joining the easymode. I'm thinking about the latter, but that would require me to leave the outfit, and i really don't like the idea.

ChipMHazard

2013-09-14, 04:15 PM

Not all servers have an overpopulated TR faction.

Plaqueis

2013-09-14, 04:25 PM

Not all servers have an overpopulated TR faction.

Well, Cobalt sure does, and judging by the op's and other posts here, the situation is even worse elsewhere. But i can't say for sure since i've only played on Lithcorp/Cobalt. Maybe i should pick an Euroserver, make a TR account and see for myself.

ringring

2013-09-14, 04:46 PM

Sunrock

2013-09-14, 06:09 PM

As far as i know, nothing was done except the fix for the projectiles going thru the solid objects (buildings, ground etc) on their way. Now they just go around them, there's even a post-patch video about this.

I could write up a wall of text here, but i'm not gonna bother. Just one question: Do you actually think that TR players suddenly became just so awesome for no reason so that every server is overpopulated of you all of a sudden?

I'll say not only no, but fuck no. Online players are just the same, regardless the game or the 'side' they decide to play on. If something like this happens, there's most definately a reason behind it, every time. I've played online games for about 20 years, and that's one thing that's never changed, no matter the game.

Only solution i see (besides developers opening their eyes) is either quitting or joining the easymode. I'm thinking about the latter, but that would require me to leave the outfit, and i really don't like the idea.

Well as you can see I have played almost exclusively as TR from day 1 and IMO the TR specific infantry and vehicle weapon power, weapon balance or what ever you like to call it, have been roughly the same sense the release of the game.

Ok. Yes the Striker and the max anchor mode gave TR a slight advantage in AA however air is just support to the ground troops and not 100% absolutely needed to conquered the map. However non of those weapons (Striker, Burster) will gain the individual player any big amount of exp/kills as 90% of the time you only get assist exp with those weapons, so I can't see way the "4th faction" will be so interested in that. But what do I know about way ppl feel the need to switch, I have never switched faction in any online game during the last 17 years I have had access to online gaming.

However on Miller TR have always been the largest faction. It was not by allot in the beginning but we had 1%-2% more world population then any other faction at day 1 so it's not entirely the "4th factions fault" even though they do fuck it up for every one, even us TR players that always played as TR. It's more fun to play when the server population is some what even, IE the +/- percentage ratio for all three factions are with in 5%, (example: VS 29% TR 34% NC 32%).

KesTro

2013-09-14, 08:40 PM

Well as you can see I have played almost exclusively as TR from day 1 and IMO the TR specific infantry and vehicle weapon power, weapon balance or what ever you like to call it, have been roughly the same sense the release of the game.

Ok. Yes the Striker and the max anchor mode gave TR a slight advantage in AA however air is just support to the ground troops and not 100% absolutely needed to conquered the map. However non of those weapons (Striker, Burster) will gain the individual player any big amount of exp/kills as 90% of the time you only get assist exp with those weapons, so I can't see way the "4th faction" will be so interested in that. But what do I know about way ppl feel the need to switch, I have never switched faction in any online game during the last 17 years I have had access to online gaming.

However on Miller TR have always been the largest faction. It was not by allot in the beginning but we had 1%-2% more world population then any other faction at day 1 so it's not entirely the "4th factions fault" even though they do fuck it up for every one, even us TR players that always played as TR. It's more fun to play when the server population is some what even, IE the +/- percentage ratio for all three factions are with in 5%, (example: VS 29% TR 34% NC 32%).

You forgot the vulcan! Can't forget the thing that lets you 1v1 anything and be guaranteed to win!

But of course we can't speak of balance in terms of 1v1 so let's look at it as 4 vulcans vs 4 anything else.

They still win. Literally against anything they win. The only time you'll see a vulcan harrasser die is when they get too greedy and try to blow up that sundy with 30 guys spawning on it.

Sunrock

2013-09-14, 10:53 PM

You forgot the vulcan! Can't forget the thing that lets you 1v1 anything and be guaranteed to win!

But of course we can't speak of balance in terms of 1v1 so let's look at it as 4 vulcans vs 4 anything else.

They still win. Literally against anything they win. The only time you'll see a vulcan harrasser die is when they get too greedy and try to blow up that sundy with 30 guys spawning on it.

The vulcan was a bit OP at the start true then it got nerfed to hell for about 4-5 months and NC and VS got something that was as OP leaving the vulcan nerfed for 2 more months... bot now I would say all MBT have equally good secondary weapons. So I say we are even on that front.

O00h.... you mean on the harasser... Trust me NC have some nasty weapons on there harasser too like the Enforcer. Can't remember the last time I saw any VS harasser they are to lovy dovy on there Magriders I guess. But never used the h-vulcan myself though. I use P525 Marauder or E540 Halberd so can't say for sure. But as the MBT weapons are balanced IMO I cant see way the harassers are not.

PS: Just because you get killed by something does not make it OP.

KesTro

2013-09-15, 08:22 AM

PS: Just because you get killed by something does not make it OP.

I am not basing this quote off of the fact that I and other do indeed regularly get killed by it. I would agree that MBTs are more or less balance right now and as far as the enforce goes on the Harasser most NC prefer to use the Halberd. A max reload speed Halberd still has more DPS than an enforcer.

Maybe I'm just sour because from an NC perspective we don't have that 'OP' thing that people complain about. When's the last time you've seen a nerf NC thread? Remember those? Hah.

Rolfski

2013-09-15, 11:23 AM

Besides never having agreed with SOE's "You can just make a new account, so why not make it easy to do without having to" argument I also don't agree with the arguments that he's put forth this time around. Does SOE have any evidence to support this assumption?

I'm afraid it's not really a matter of free skaters actually switching accounts to bypass any faction-swapping restrictions.

It's more of a principle that paying members should never be at a disadvantage. Also, any faction-swapping restrictions would for sure lead to protests from paying members so I can kinda understand they're looking into other mechanics first to fix the 4th empire problem .

One thing they're also considering is making the winning conditions dynamic, based on population.
So if you're heavily underpopped, you would need to hold less than 9 biodomes for a dominating victory. Or the other way around, when you're pop is 40%, you would need 80%of Indar for a dominating victory in the "Feel the heat" Alert.

Rumblepit

2013-09-15, 06:26 PM

http://sirisian.com/planetside2/population.php?world=10&timezone=0

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AmUavphHXmIxdFhHUzJfN1VYalRnWS0xMnBUdTJpM 1E&gid=3

hmmm ?Maybe the numbers are off.

MGP

2013-09-16, 02:43 AM

MBTs are more or less balance right now

I'm sorry, but i'm laughing IRL after reading this statement. Vanguard is completely OP tank with it's "I win" button aka "Godmode shield".

And at the same time you claim Vulcan being OP. Oh god, this is hilarious! You must be the most biased person i've met in last few months.

KesTro

2013-09-16, 02:54 AM

I'm sorry, but i'm laughing IRL after reading this statement. Vanguard is completely OP tank with it's "I win" button aka "Godmode shield".

And at the same time you claim Vulcan being OP. Oh god, this is hilarious! You must be the most biased person i've met in last few months.

The Vanguard in the best close quarters tank while the magrider is the best long range tank. Prowlers fall somewhere in between those two. You also seemed to have failed to mention the prowlers lockdown which I could make an equally ignorant post about and direct it at you.

MGP

2013-09-16, 03:17 AM

Prowlers fail
FTFY

You also seemed to have failed to mention the prowlers lockdown
... which doesn't work with Vulcan. So you either use lockdown+Halberd or something+Vulcan. I guess to make it fair, we should make Enforcer unusable with shield installed.

Emperor Newt

2013-09-16, 08:15 AM

http://sirisian.com/planetside2/population.php?world=10&timezone=0
Sadly the weird scale makes the graph a pain to use. But when removing the all factions line you can at least see the TR pop spikes during prime times. Yesterdays is simultaneous with an alert and you can see TR having a hundred more players then VS. Even about 50 more then NC. That gives them the ability to have at least one full platoon who each can fight the other factions "unchallenged".

That, combined with the game favoring numbers over almost everything, the overall low population (only 700 vs players during prime-time, when a cont alone is at least supposed to hold about 666 players per faction) makes it hard to almost impossible for VS to fight in the inter-continent alerts. There simply aren't enough players to be able to fight TR on every front and also keep up with NC.
Even if TVA concentrates on just fighting TRAM, we lack the ability to keep up with the TR zerg. In yesterdays prime-time alert we (as in: the VS who still try to fight alerts. Most outfits simply stopped caring) fought our asses off and got a measly 1330 xp at the end. I don't even want to know how much xp TR got. It just got to a point where it is no longer feasible to fight on more then one continent as we simply cannot bring the numbers during prime-time. And even if we do make progress on one continent, the territory will be lost within an hour if we shift our focus to another.

TR almost always had somewhat larger numbers on Miller, but this wasn't a problem as the other factions had enough players to cover at least about two continents. Now VS numbers are down to about only one continent and it doesn't look like it's getting better. And I think that is what is pissing people off and feeds the fourth faction. The lower the overall pop gets with time, the bigger the problem get and the more it shows what a fucked up system these alerts are.

Maybe a server merge might be a temporarily solution, but as SOE stated they don't plan to do any. I suppose they hope on optimization and Hossin to magically fix player numbers. Maybe it does. We'll see. But I remain skeptical until then.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AmUavphHXmIxdFhHUzJfN1VYalRnWS0xMnBUdTJpM 1E&gid=3
Last update was almost six months ago. Sadly. Those would be very useful stats.

Assist

2013-09-16, 08:59 AM

Phreec

2013-09-16, 08:59 AM

I'm sorry, but i'm laughing IRL after reading this statement. Vanguard is completely OP tank with it's "I win" button aka "Godmode shield".It's the most skill rewarding MBT for tank vs tank but it's still terribly inefficient for infantry farming. Prowler is light years ahead of it in that regard, especially when it goes into lockdown mode...
And at the same time you claim Vulcan being OP. Oh god, this is hilarious! You must be the most biased person i've met in last few months.Are you implying Vulcan isn't OP?

MGP

2013-09-16, 09:03 AM

It's the most skill rewarding MBT for tank vs tank but it's still terribly inefficient for infantry farming. Prowler is light years ahead of it in that regard
Yay! TR tank is shit against other tanks but can kill single HA easily, therefore it's ballanced! Hooray for logic!

Are you implying Vulcan isn't OP?
Ofcourse it's not. This is why 2/3 of Prowlers use Halberds.

martingee

2013-09-16, 12:16 PM

Well, Cobalt sure does, and judging by the op's and other posts here, the situation is even worse elsewhere. But i can't say for sure since i've only played on Lithcorp/Cobalt. Maybe i should pick an Euroserver, make a TR account and see for myself.

Surely you remember the jump in NC numbers after they had there 'flinch' fix and a new (now defunct) clan arrived on the server. Or even the time when VS regularly topped 40%?

At the moment and for the last month or two TR have been dominant but it'll change, probably at the next warp gate rotation ;)

Saying that I still get my arse steamrolled by TRID during the alerts. :(

edit: I too have only experience on Lithcorp/Cobalt btw

Darkard

2013-09-16, 01:38 PM

Gotta love the outfits that "Give Up" when alerts come around.
They all log out and skew the numbers even more in the TR's favor.

But you go ahead, stamp your feet and ball your little fists in rage and boycott the server.
Punish the outfits that have been TR since the birth of PS1, because its totally their fault that the game is how it is. It them who have drawn all the player to TR with their evil propaganda and all the OP weapons we invented.

Surely you should be reaching out to TRAM and other TR outfits and discussing this like adults.
Why don't you suggest a "Great Traitors Day" and get the TR outfits to sign up to a day on the VS or NC side of the fence. We can all have a good chuckle at everyone getting shot down by Strikers and get some 30 man Lancer nests in place.

Its not like the TR will lose an really important continental benefit :rolleyes:
Personally I would sign up for that and I'm sure others would too.

Sunrock

2013-09-16, 01:59 PM

Sunrock

2013-09-16, 02:07 PM

First 6 months of the game Waterson VS tried to get SoE to remedy this problem. They just don't care. 4-5 months of consistant below 22% pop was enough for too many people, most didn't bother coming back to the game.

/shrug. Doing it wrong, SoE's primary task.

It's not that SOE does not care. It's that SOE can't really do anything about it. But if some one of you think you're so smart maybe you can come up with something that would work because I know Blizzard, SOE and the different EA MMO dev houses have tried to come up with a good solution for this for the the last 10+ years now.

The problem lies in that there is a bunch of players that turn their coat after the wind and there is not a game mechanic in the world that can totally stop it. Sure you can encourage or discurage players but in the end there are still cockroaches that change faction if they loose one time.

PS: But yes there are things SOE can do for PS2 that can improve faction jumping a little but don't expect any miracles.

Timealude

2013-09-16, 03:05 PM

It's not that SOE does not care. It's that SOE can't really do anything about it. But if some one of you think you're so smart maybe you can come up with something that would work because I know Blizzard, SOE and the different EA MMO dev houses have tried to come up with a good solution for this for the the last 10+ years now.

The problem lies in that there is a bunch of players that turn their coat after the wind and there is not a game mechanic in the world that can totally stop it. Sure you can encourage or discurage players but in the end there are still cockroaches that change faction if they loose one time.

PS: But yes there are things SOE can do for PS2 that can improve faction jumping a little but don't expect any miracles.

I thought the faction lock mechanic in planetside 1 worked pretty well from keeping people switching factions when one side was losing.

orbit

2013-09-16, 03:12 PM

Well I'd rather soe found a way to kill the 4th faction rather than shut my server down :p

Chefkoch

2013-09-16, 05:06 PM

^ Oh, just say it. :P Dynamic XP, like in PS1. There, I said it. If you steam roll an empire with a zerg and there's no opposition you don't get as much XP for captures. This doesn't solve the alerts and 4th empire though. So obviously bring back the timer to switch empires on the same server, like in PS1. If been saying this since they added the ability to have toons on different empires/same server.

Good start !! Would fix a lot like most PS1 Gameplay mechanics such as door hacking, ability to change vehicle lodeouts on the fly, view healt and armor of all platoon members....

Chef

Emperor Newt

2013-09-16, 05:11 PM

Don't you dare mentioning PS1! This is a completely different game, as we have been told several times during alpha and beta. I think they call it Battlefield on steroids or something.

Gotta love the outfits that "Give Up" when alerts come around.
They all log out and skew the numbers even more in the TR's favor.
I know none that does so. They simply do not care for the alert and do something else.

bpostal

2013-09-16, 06:54 PM

I thought the faction lock mechanic in planetside 1 worked pretty well from keeping people switching factions when one side was losing.

The power that came from the lockout was derived from the fact that it was a subscription based game. Faction lockouts would help, but at the end of the day someone can always start up an alt account and the only thing they're out of are any SC purchases/boosts.

Sunrock

2013-09-16, 07:51 PM

I thought the faction lock mechanic in planetside 1 worked pretty well from keeping people switching factions when one side was losing.

Yea but its not 100% guarantee that no one can swap faction as you can always have 2 or more account even if you force a sub free

Sunrock

2013-09-17, 02:40 AM

Emperor Newt

2013-09-17, 08:59 AM

When I loged out from miller yesterday (EU time) around 2 am the score was around: NC 2000+ TR 4000+ VS 2000+. Now at 8:30 the score is NC 3,130 TR 5,412 VS 3,247 witch means that both NC and VS have manage to take in around 500+ points each during the night.

Withe some true hardcore gaming from NC and VS side they could actually catch up.... Will be interesting how this will play out in the long run.

Current numbers:
MILLER
NC: 3,756
TR: 7,147
VS: 3,841

So over the early hours TR was able to make about 2000 points while NC and VS only made about 600. So nope, I don't think that there is a chance for either NC or VS on catching up. Especially with TR (currently) having the favorable Indar and Esamir warpgate positions.

Sunrock

2013-09-17, 09:09 AM

Yea TR have more daytime players... but it looks like NC and VS have more nighttime players then TR so.

MrMak

2013-09-17, 01:24 PM

Yes lets fix the problem by making it worse....that surely wont come back to bite us in the ass. Just like constant protests and strikes do wonders for a country's economy.

Emperor Newt

2013-09-17, 02:18 PM

Yeah, because Germany's economy is basically ruined due to all those strikes that happen on a fairly regular basis.

diLLa

2013-09-17, 02:19 PM

I know none that does so. They simply do not care for the alert and do something else.

Which is the basically the same as giving up :huh:

Emperor Newt

2013-09-17, 02:48 PM

Running on the assumption that the whole game only centers around alerts, yes. But I think that would pretty much be a confession of failure on PS2's overall game-design when the only thing one should care about are alerts. Although it is debatable if there is more in this game to actually care for then xp/certs.

Those people at least bind enemy forces somewhere else and hopefully have fun doing so and don't get fatigued as fast. Because the last thing we need is more people quiting. Overall I would argue it is better for player retention in (VS) outfits to at least sometimes ignore the alerts. We try to fight every alert we can, but sometimes you only need to look at the map (and having player numbers in mind) to know that you can't win. And then you have to ask yourself if a measly 1k xp reward is worth it when you could just go somewhere else and find more equal and fun fights in the process.

It might not be a solution to the problem but players cannot solve the problem. Maybe it makes things worse, but I don't see a big difference between being totally beaten and being beaten by a fair margin. The point at which this would have mattered has long been passed. So I can totally understand why people do stop caring for alerts and try to get the most fun out of their playtime. And I really can't blame them for it. Our own overall moral during and especially after alerts has significantly dropped during the last months. Even if we could get all people online to care for alerts there just aren't enough players on Miller left to make alerts work for everybody. Alerts work when there is a sufficient server population. Just being able to fill a single continent is not sufficient. The only situations where this works is when there is an alert for a specific continent. But now you get screwed over even then by the world domination rules because you can no longer protect your other continents if you care for the alert.

ringring

2013-09-17, 04:19 PM

We have three models for 'reasons why we fight'.

The PS1 model
Alerts
Global Domination

For me the only one that works is still the PS1 model.

Reithan

2013-09-17, 08:10 PM

Especially with TR (currently) having the favorable Indar and Esamir warpgate positions.

The fact that there ARE favorable positions, given how infrequently rotations happen, is also a large problem with PS2.

Reithan

2013-09-17, 08:17 PM

Although it is debatable if there is more in this game to actually care for then xp/certs.

What is there to debate? XP/Certs are the only thing 'persistent' in this persistent-world game.

Taking/defending/holding territories doesn't really change anything gameplay-wise other than how much XP/Certs you gain from doing it. The effects resources gained/earned from them seems minimal, and recharges are a reasonable rate regardless, not to mention being mainly ephemeral in themselves.

Only XP/Certs matter. It's the ONLY lasting consequence to ANY of PS2's gameplay.

Boomzor

2013-09-18, 02:17 AM

Only XP/Certs matter. It's the ONLY lasting consequence to ANY of PS2's gameplay.

Untill you run out of thing to spend XP/certs on.
Granted, for most people, it's a long time till that happens, but every one persistent enough will get there eventually (alot faster if you're a subscriber or running on XP boosters).

Hence the term "end game".

Something PS2 is currently lacking.

Emperor Newt

2013-09-18, 03:42 AM

(alot faster if you're a subscriber or running on XP boosters).
Or just know the current flavor of the month (or year) and "abuse" the shit out of it. The whole xp system is completely bonkers.

What is there to debate? XP/Certs are the only thing 'persistent' in this persistent-world game.
imho there is nothing to debate. I fully agree with you. I just chose a more... careful wording because the last time I said that I had the pleasure to encounter a lot of "oh, you are just playing the game wrong!!!111 herpdyderp" comments.

bpostal

2013-09-18, 01:32 PM

Untill you run out of thing to spend XP/certs on.
Granted, for most people, it's a long time till that happens, but every one persistent enough will get there eventually (alot faster if you're a subscriber or running on XP boosters).

Hence the term "end game".

Something PS2 is currently lacking.

Not quite true. You and everyone else have been playing the 'end game' since you hit BR 15 and unlocked the ability to unlock everything.

Boomzor

2013-09-18, 03:21 PM

Not quite true. You and everyone else have been playing the 'end game' since you hit BR 15 and unlocked the ability to unlock everything.

I completely disagree.
What you have there is finite content to burn through. A crap load of it, yes, but it will run out eventually. There hasn't been a developer in the history of digital games who've managed to produce content faster than players are burning through it.

Some people are already there and couldn't give two shits about XP bonuses as neither meta game (alerts) nor incentive to balance out one faction or the other.

The nuances of the fights and how the choice you make effect the grand strategies will have to carry the load from then on to keep things interesting. THAT is an end game.
To think (or even worse - accept) that we're already there is in my oppinion rather shortsighted.

I atleast want more than farming infantry from the spawn shed of an under populated faction as the sole purpose of the game (or what ever optimised flavour of the month way of generating fast and easy xp you have).

I don't think I'm alone in that.

SerethiX

2013-09-18, 06:56 PM

I don't think I'm alone in that.

No you are not, I'm also missing some game mechanicals that don't rely on numbers.

SerethiX - www.serethi.de

capiqu

2013-09-18, 07:50 PM

Yet again the grape VS Whine.

Phreec

2013-09-20, 01:24 AM

Yet again the grape VS Whine.
You don't even play on the server that we're discussing so I don't see why you're shitposting in this thread. The situation on Miller is no 'VS whine', it's real. I haven't been arsed to even log on because of the skewed population and balance...

Plaqueis

2013-09-20, 01:55 PM

I have a suggestion: forget boycotting Miller, just leave and log on to some other server in desperate need of VS players. Cobalt for example.

We have a server full of skilled players on all factions and good battles depending when VS is active, problem is we're outnumbered pretty much 24/7. But it's not bad all the time, when it's Trident prime time, we get about 30% population on most active (usually alert) continent. On offpeak times it's laughable, VS has maybe 20% population at most populated continent, and pretty much nobody on 2 others. So we could use some help. Leave the buggers ghostcapping Miller and join us so we can have a balanced fight atleast on one server.

Babyfark McGeez

2013-09-21, 02:30 PM

Saturday prime time miller and indar is the only playable continent if you're VS;
11% pop on esamir, 12% pop on amerish. NCs numbers seem to be slightly better, but not that much.

It wasn't that bad the last time i played, TR had a huge advantage, but it was still playable as the underdog, i even liked that feeling. But with the pop difference i just saw and the "bases" being the way they are it got to a point now where it is indeed a problem and basically unplayable outside of indar.

Swordstriker

2013-09-21, 03:22 PM

Well. I don't know what it is like on Miller so I cant comment on that. However, if you do boycott Miller be aware that you'll be taking some fight away. People play Planetside 2 for the fight. So the TR on that server may switch over to different ones (or stop playing). Just something to be aware of.

bpostal

2013-09-21, 04:11 PM

What is there to debate? XP/Certs are the only thing 'persistent' in this persistent-world game.

Taking/defending/holding territories doesn't really change anything gameplay-wise other than how much XP/Certs you gain from doing it. The effects resources gained/earned from them seems minimal, and recharges are a reasonable rate regardless, not to mention being mainly ephemeral in themselves.

Only XP/Certs matter. It's the ONLY lasting consequence to ANY of PS2's gameplay.

This viewpoint is not sustainable. Eventually people will have unlocked everything they want want and will bitch about there being no 'end game'. What they don't realize is that they've been playing the end game since BR 1.
So you'll see a whole bunch of people who get mad and then quit, when them leaving is simply inevitable. One simply can not play the game with that mindset and expect to stick around for more than a couple months.

Play for fun, play for taking over a continent in a given timeframe, play for alerts or whatever but don't play just to make the little numbers and bars fill up.

capiqu

2013-09-21, 08:40 PM

Plaqueis

2013-09-23, 07:07 PM

On my server Mattherson the VS have the greatest numbers. I always play solo and 2 out of 3 times I'm defending our bases from greater numbers of enemies . I know it's harder play but that's become my play style. I'm used to it and I'm not switching servers nor do I complain.

Your assumption seems to be false:
http://www.therebelscum.net/world-population/?world_id=17&zoom=3

On your server the numbers switch quite a bit, depending on the time of day.

Then again, Cobalt for example (where i play):
http://www.therebelscum.net/world-population/?world_id=13&zoom=3

Pretty much constant TR overpopulation, except the off-hours when there's hardly anyone on server...

And since the thread is about Miller:
http://www.therebelscum.net/world-population/?world_id=10&zoom=3

Either somewhat balanced or huge TR overpopulation.

I can't wait the day when devs decide to actually do something about this.

Babyfark McGeez

2013-09-24, 02:17 AM

Your assumption seems to be false:
http://www.therebelscum.net/world-population/?world_id=17&zoom=3

On your server the numbers switch quite a bit, depending on the time of day.

Then again, Cobalt for example (where i play):
http://www.therebelscum.net/world-population/?world_id=13&zoom=3

Pretty much constant TR overpopulation, except the off-hours when there's hardly anyone on server...

And since the thread is about Miller:
http://www.therebelscum.net/world-population/?world_id=10&zoom=3

Either somewhat balanced or huge TR overpopulation.

I can't wait the day when devs decide to actually do something about this.

Interesting charts.

Any idea in which timezone it is displayed though? Doesn't seem to be eu times (or is miller that packed at 6 am in the morning and empty at 23 pm? :p ).

Plaqueis

2013-09-24, 03:33 AM

Interesting charts.

Any idea in which timezone it is displayed though? Doesn't seem to be eu times (or is miller that packed at 6 am in the morning and empty at 23 pm? :p ).

No clue, a buddy had found this and posted it on our outfit forums.. check their page, maybe you'll find info there...

EDIT: I hope somethings done fast, or the game might start losing even more players.. i was just in game, no point even spawning in... Amerish (alert) 44% of population TR, Esamir 46% NC, Indar 41% TR...

http://www.therebelscum.net/world-population/?world_id=13&zoom=0&daterange=1379969475000,1379991075000

Mastachief

2013-09-24, 02:24 PM

yeh miller and the 200 player TR over pop... yeh that's not soul destroying SOE...

INIDominus

2013-09-25, 02:21 AM

I think the NC and VS of Miller need their own INI Elite.

Emperor Newt

2013-09-25, 05:17 AM

Nah, thank you. We already have plenty of pretentious players.
Even pops and more players would help though.

Pella

2013-09-25, 06:18 AM

Nah, thank you. We already have plenty of pretentious players.
Even pops and more players would help though.

My point exactly. To many Pretentious VS/NC outfits on Miller.

troedd

2013-09-25, 08:00 AM

Interesting charts.

Any idea in which timezone it is displayed though? Doesn't seem to be eu times (or is miller that packed at 6 am in the morning and empty at 23 pm? :p ).

tip : the site is hosted by a briggs outfit.

try adding 8 hours to the time indicated to have european (UTC+2) time.

Kisses to Plaqueis from Bloodynurse ;)

martingee

2013-09-25, 10:47 AM

No clue, a buddy had found this and posted it on our outfit forums.. check their page, maybe you'll find info there...

EDIT: I hope somethings done fast, or the game might start losing even more players.. i was just in game, no point even spawning in... Amerish (alert) 44% of population TR, Esamir 46% NC, Indar 41% TR...

http://www.therebelscum.net/world-population/?world_id=13&zoom=0&daterange=1379969475000,1379991075000

I understand your frustration; having been a TR player on Lithcorp/Cobalt since the end of November the populations have fluctuated over that time unlike Miller from the sounds of it. The rebelscum website only goes back a month so I don't have any stats but Lithcorp/Cobalt hasn't always been this way.

I did respond to one of you earlier posts so sorry for the repost but

Surely you remember the jump in NC numbers after they had there 'flinch' fix and a new (now defunct) clan arrived on the server. Or even the time when VS regularly topped 40%?

At the moment and for the last month or two TR have been dominant but it'll change, probably at the next warp gate rotation ;)

Saying that I still get my arse steamrolled by TRID during the alerts. :(

edit: I too have only experience on Lithcorp/Cobalt btw

I expect the TR pop to take a nose dive after the warp gate rotation which must be imminent, if it doesn't i'd be very surprised, it has done in the past.

To say Cobalt is in the same boat as Miller is not true, Miller has long established PS1 outfits whereas Cobalt, as far as I can see, has new outfits with a fluctuating player base.

I agree there needs to be some way of making it worth while for people to log in and play and under populated faction, there were times when I didn't get past the login screen because the TR pop was at sub 25% and the other factions were in the mid to high 30's.

PredatorFour

2013-09-25, 12:20 PM

To say Cobalt is in the same boat as Miller is not true, Miller has long established PS1 outfits whereas Cobalt, as far as I can see, has new outfits with a fluctuating player base.

Miller has long established PS 1 outfits yeh. The thing is, a great deal of the PS 1 players have stopped playing due to the game not standing up to the original. So Cobalt and Miller have fluctuating playerbases albeit with different sized populations.

Plaqueis

2013-09-26, 05:33 PM

I understand your frustration; having been a TR player on Lithcorp/Cobalt since the end of November the populations have fluctuated over that time unlike Miller from the sounds of it. The rebelscum website only goes back a month so I don't have any stats but Lithcorp/Cobalt hasn't always been this way.

I did respond to one of you earlier posts so sorry for the repost but

I expect the TR pop to take a nose dive after the warp gate rotation which must be imminent, if it doesn't i'd be very surprised, it has done in the past.

To say Cobalt is in the same boat as Miller is not true, Miller has long established PS1 outfits whereas Cobalt, as far as I can see, has new outfits with a fluctuating player base.

I agree there needs to be some way of making it worth while for people to log in and play and under populated faction, there were times when I didn't get past the login screen because the TR pop was at sub 25% and the other factions were in the mid to high 30's.

Sorry for not answering to your earlier post, i managed to miss it somehow.

I've been playing on same server pretty much from the moment i created my character back in last December. I don't remember the population %'s ever been this badly one-sided.

This started right with introduction of certain weapons, so i don't see it stopping before things are evened out. The advantage these weapons gave, brought in more subscribers/4th factioners causing huge TR overpopulation, which then caused a partly 'fake' performance boost on few other weapon systems, mostly due the huge number of people using them.

I doubt the rotation will help on this.