G30 Walker vs. M20 Basilisk

[Mordelicius]

I pulled a Sundy several days ago (which I rarely do) to try to do some AA on a large TR offensive. I found the G30 is just terribly weak.

I originally got the G30 Walker many months ago because it can also damage vehicles in addition to aircraft. But, whereas the Basilisk can also damage to vehicles, the G30 was better suited for AA. The downside to the Walker is you have to push the back of the sundy on an incline to enable the it to aim at ground targets (in this position it's very limited against air).

When I used again, it's been severely nerfed that it's pointless to even shoot ground vehicles with it (that or vehicles were buffed against it).

So I did another comparison again between the M20 Basilisk on Sunderer vs the G30 Walker.

I found that in:

short range (point blank) M20 Basilisk can kill a galaxy in 40 seconds
short range (point blank) G30 Walker can kill a galaxy in 30 seconds

short range M20 Basilisk can kill a Lib in 17 seconds
short range G30 Walker can kill a Lib in 15 seconds

Medium range (~70m) M20 Basilisk can kill a Lib in 18 seconds
Medium range (~70m) G30 Walker can kill a Lib in 19 seconds

Medium range M20 Basilisk kills a tank in 30 seconds
Medium range G30 Walker kills a tank in 45-50 seconds (haha, no idea why it kept fluctuating but it's around that range).

Now, I'm shooting at the same spot on the sides and not at the bottom (and I don't know if all the armor of the aircraft are the same), but given that,

What's the point of G30 Walker if it the Basilisk can (presumably) do equal AA and still be significantly better against vehicles. Not only that, G30 Walker is expensive while M20 Basilisk is cheap or if I'm not mistaken a stock weapon :doh:.

I was shooting ESFs too and they are about the same in TTK.

So, I recommend to avoid the G30 Walker until the AA is buffed and instead use the Basilisk as the multipurpose AV/AA weapon. Against infantry as well, it's not possible to aim unless you tilt the vehicle.

Anyone else have an opinion on the G30 Walker and M20 Basilisk (for Sunderer)?

[maradine]

Now go back and do your test with the Ranger.

[mrmrmrj]

I run Bulldog and Ranger. Some of my outfit prefer the Fury to the Bulldog. But the Ranger is the best AA option, but it does take some skill to use.

[Fenrys]

The Walker can aim higher than the Basilisk, and the faster rate of fire means more chances to land a shot while estimating lead distance.

I'd like to see it get buffed to, but I also think it already compares favorably to the Basilisk against aircraft.

Some flak is a great thing to have. One Ranger is a poor substitute for a dual-Burster MAX or Skyguard, but it will do in a pinch.
Bulldog ammo capacity lets you stay out in the field longer and the larger splash can hit behind deeper cover, but the Fury is more immediately lethal to nearby ambushing infantry trying to C4 your ride.

My 1st slot loadout is Bulldog+Basilisk. When I park it, I usually sit in the Basilisk seat for defense, and it works OK against all targets that are not already right above or touching the Sundy. Having the large radius indirect fire option available is sometimes really nice.

[maradine]

I run Bulldog and Ranger. Some of my outfit prefer the Fury to the Bulldog. But the Ranger is the best AA option, but it does take some skill to use.

This is, unfortunately, ridiculously untrue. The Ranger is so bad that there are days where there are literally less than 100 kills globally with it. Aggregate KPU 1.2. It's that bad.

[Obstruction]

as a full time Lib pilot i heartily endorse the use of rangers, especially dual rangers, on all sunderers for full AA capability.

never, ever, ever use dual basilisks with upgraded reload. that's for people who have cooties.

[Baneblade]

The best AA weapon I have available for my Vanguard is the AP cannon, I just need to find myself some inclination on occasion. My secondary has been the Kobalt lately... absolutely rapes infantry. Heard it damages air, but havent bothered to try.

EDIT: Damages ESFs, but not Libs/Gals. High Elevation arc too. Kobalt also kicks Harassers in the teeth, basically its a good counter to most of the things that a Vanguard fears.

[Rolfski]

G30 Walker has a better angle, ROF and bullet speed. All these are crucial for AA duties. I run my solo Prowler with a G30 Walker exclusively and it has served me well as a deterrent for air and let me go on my Prowler business.

[Mordelicius]

Now go back and do your test with the Ranger.

The reason why I'm only comparing the Walker and Basilisk that I'm looking for a weapon that a cross purpose AV/AA.

Sunderers are primarily spawn points. If you can't defend againsts threats, then it will go down real fast.

It used to be Air was the prime threat. Ground vehicle was secondary. Infantry is hard to deter because tank mines and C4 used to take out Sundies before it was buffed against them. It's really hard to shield the Sundies from these infantry threats especially those hotdropping, nevermind the LAs and Infils that will sneak out of nowhere, and the occasional ESRLs and RLs. So, AI is really out of equation in considering these threat deterrants (that is if the Sundy is being used as spawn). Infantry will have to be tasked to deal with the Infantry threats

Nowadays, ground is the primary threat with the advent of Harassers and the buff to tank survivability and damage plus the buffs to Max AV. The Harassers alone can decimate masses of infantry spawning on the sundies.The Marauder is like a ranged C4 being thrown accurately by tanks that move like buggies :doh:. How can an engineer repair the Sundy much less fight back?

Hence, the best way to consider Sundy weapon is that it has to be multipurpose. I find the Basilisk is that gun now. It used to be the Walker.
Even if I tilt the vehicle so I can fire on the ground, the damage has been so degraded that tanks will just laugh it off.

Anyway, I'll test out the Ranger's AV viability (given if it can even aim down to the ground). Thx for the suggestion.

[Bulltahr]

as a full time Lib pilot i heartily endorse the use of rangers, especially dual rangers, on all sunderers for full AA capability.

never, ever, ever use dual basilisks with upgraded reload. that's for people who have cooties.

Even after the buff??? Or was it just default mag size???

[Falcon_br]

I really don´t remember the last time I died to a Ranger, I don´t think it happened!
I use double Bulldog with people with striker on it, but on amerish I use double walkers, always!
Sometime when I am alone or not sure if we get strikers, I pull a bulldog/walker combo.
I do have a build with double rangers, man, everyone complains when I pull it.
Also I have a double basilisk build with extended mags, but I don´t recall the last time I used it, my outfit got too much default sunderers, so if I pull one everyone will not like it, because they already got it.

[Rothnang]

For ground vehicles the Walker has the advantage of having more elevation, it can hit aircraft that are right over you, which the Basilisk can't. The Walker doesn't have any depression though, so you can't shoot targets that are close to the vehicle on the ground, which the Basilisk can do.

Basically if both guns were exactly the same on ground vehicles the type of mounting would still make a significant difference in their effectiveness against air or ground targets.

On aircraft however the Walker is just underwhelming. It has pretty damn near no advantage there, because there is no difference in the mounting that gives it a specific role.

[Bulltahr]

I'm thinking that maybe people don't like to use the ranger because it is 100% AA.
I know when I light up my ranger on my sundy the air disappears fast.
Pilots???? Honest opinions please?

[Artimus]

One thing I do know is the M20 may be more effective at taking out armour but when trying to shoot air it is incredibly ineffective due to accuracy. I can have the crosshair perfectly centered on a target and still miss about 70 % of my shots. IMO all the AA secondary guns are crap, but they will at least ward off air which is due to balancing issues. Personally I like they way they are then have them OP against air like back in beta.

[typhaon]

The best AA weapon I have available for my Vanguard is the AP cannon, I just need to find myself some inclination on occasion. My secondary has been the Kobalt lately... absolutely rapes infantry. Heard it damages air, but havent bothered to try.

EDIT: Damages ESFs, but not Libs/Gals. High Elevation arc too. Kobalt also kicks Harassers in the teeth, basically its a good counter to most of the things that a Vanguard fears.

AP+Kobalt is what I use most of the time for solo-Vanguard. It's like a honey trap for LA. Go park somewhere (outside an amp station is usually a great spot)... let em see you are 1/2... fire a few AP shells, switch to the Kobalt and then farm the waves of C4 rushers that will follow.

[Fenrys]

I'm thinking that maybe people don't like to use the ranger because it is 100% AA.
I know when I light up my ranger on my sundy the air disappears fast.
Pilots???? Honest opinions please?

After running away once, it's easy to tell when the only flak hits you've taken are from a single Ranger. If you can quickly repair a little damage and reacquire the target, the next and subsequent attack runs can last a bit longer than the first.

[libbmaster]

Dual Basilisks. Every. Darn. Time.

Two gunners working together can shred main battle tanks, (especially if you have blockade armor) liberators and even light assaults with ease.

[Boildown]

The Ranger is just awful. Its hard to aim, very low projectile velocity, useless against ground targets, and does very little damage. The only good thing about it is it can be mistaken for a burster max, which makes aircraft fly away... until they figure out that you actually LOL have a Ranger and come back and kill you.

The Walker as people have said can be aimed high and has a higher projectile velocity, making it easier to hit air targets. All of which makes it the best overall anti-air secondary.

The Basilisk is solid against slower and closer air targets, but very difficult to lead shots at ones further away, and can't be aimed overhead (though it is very difficult to exploit this as a pilot usually).

The Basilisk was pretty bad because of terrible projectile velocity until a patch or two ago. Now its easily the best all-around top gun. On my Sundy I usually have one Basilisk and one of something else, either Fury, Walker, or Kobalt.

The Bulldog sucks horribly compared to the Fury. When I'm riding in a vehicle that isn't a Galaxy that has a Bulldog, I usually just hop out, because its a good sign that the driver doesn't have a clue. Wider splash damage means nothing when the damage isn't lethal in the first place. The Fury on the other hand is a deadly more accurate weapon. The Bulldog needs a buff in a big way.

Finally the Kobalt. Its great against infantry, even at ranges that would make the Fury difficult to use, surprisingly effective against close-range ESFs, and can dissuade Harassers. But useless against tanks and large aircraft. Its hard to know when to pull it, it has to be an infantry-heavy situation someplace with a hill that protects you from direct rocket fire.

Its rare that I pull a Sundy without a Basilisk on top, and that didn't used to be the case. Basilisk + Walker, Basilisk + Fury, Basilisk + Kobalt, and double-Basilisk are all solid combinations. My only complaint would be that the "upgrades" aren't good enough compared to the stock double-Basilisk equipped Sundy.

[maradine]

Dual Basilisks. Every. Darn. Time.

I'm starting to come around to this school of thought.