After optimization, can we focus everything on metagame please?

[Rolfski]

Operation Meaningful Game (OMG) or metagame is the single thing that absolutely needs to be fixed first after optimization (Operation Make Faster Game) is finished before anything else imo. It's the core promise of this game that is still not delivered and I'll bet it's the second biggest reason after optimization, people eventually quit this game. I think I saw about 75% of my main outfit come and go over the past year, mainly because of optimization and getting bored issues.

There are tons of things on the roadmap (or requested outside of it) that are eagerly anticipated: From ESF changes, to in-game outfit recruitment options, to better TR carbine/sniper sounds, to server transfers, to infiltrator overhaul, to more weapons/vehicles, to better e-sports spectator mode, etc. As much as these features are really welcome and even long overdue, going back to the regular daily road-map after OMFG is finished would be a huge mistake imo. At least reschedule it to prioritize Operation Meaningful Game.

If Smedley can make the whole dev team stop working on what they're doing and really focus on optimization, he can for sure prioritize this to finally deliver the big promise of PS2: Strategic MMO FPS.

And with metagame I mean making the game actually rewarding by giving it meaningful goals (very narrow definition of metagame, I know). It involves:


Additional map content and level design to allow for strategic conquest/continent locking: Hossin, Amerish lattice, 3 battle islands. People are dying for this, make it happen yesterday. Battle islands could be released as a work in progress imo because competition/e-sports will cause balance changes anyway.
Secondary goals: Alert, WDS, mission system and other game sytems. Make it so that it leads to balanced fights (no overpop bullshit).
Reward system: Resources, XP, stats. It should promote playing the objective, not kill-farming.
GUI and comms tools: Little changes in these can go a long way in helping players to go for their objective.

Most of these are on hold atm and right now Malorn apparently has only half a programmer to work with to fix WDS and other meta-game systems. I'd say let's give him half the dev team (the other half working on maps) after OMFG is finished. How cool would it be to have this game finally living up to its legacy?

[HereticusXZ]

I think SOE has already claimed they intend to work on the mythical meta-game of the new Resource System and Continental Lattice as main projects after Optimization, Amerish Lattice, and Hossin... IMO with Class revamps, More cosmetics, and other features as side-projects to fill the void of player impatience as we wait for the meat and potatoes of the main projects to be finished.

I don't know where Nexus fits in, if it's a big thing with Continental Lattice or if it's a side project to appease competition players...

It's all just myth until we can play with it...

[Rolfski]

There's a big difference between working on something vs having the whole dev team stop to fix it now before doing anything else.

[ringring]

I think SOE has already claimed they intend to work on the mythical meta-game of the new Resource System and Continental Lattice as main projects after Optimization, Amerish Lattice, and Hossin... IMO with Class revamps, More cosmetics, and other features as side-projects to fill the void of player impatience as we wait for the meat and potatoes of the main projects to be finished.

I don't know where Nexus fits in, if it's a big thing with Continental Lattice or if it's a side project to appease competition players...

It's all just myth until we can play with it...
Nexus is integral to the metagame, as are 2 other battle islands (I think 2).

It's still gonna be a while, too long.

I don't know but it seems the strategy was all along to release an unfinished game and SOE also seem to be doing that wit EQ2.

It only makes partial sense to me in that a revenue stream will commence earlier however, think of the customers you/they will lose along he way.

[Root Hade]

What a weird post. You should suggest something tangible, like duplicating Nexus three times just so we can get the continent lattice live asap.

[Emperor Newt]

As much as I would love a better "metagame" I think the game has more serious issues like the new player introduction and the "progression" system (which kind of ties in with #3 though). Metagame would surely help to keep the current players in the game, but the game needs to be able to keep new players in the first place. And from what I see it's pretty bad at that. And I doubt that people quit because of the lack of a "metagame", but because the game is too confusing and/or not fun enough.

[Escroteitor]

As much as I would love a better "metagame" I think the game has more serious issues like the new player introduction and the "progression" system (which kind of ties in with #3 though). Metagame would surely help to keep the current players in the game, but the game needs to be able to keep new players in the first place. And from what I see it's pretty bad at that. And I doubt that people quit because of the lack of a "metagame", but because the game is too confusing and/or not fun enough.

The first time I quit was because I got 15 fps while I have 30-50 fps on other titles of the same year on high-medium settings.

I've return just because I'm starting to study and I need a long-term F2P (or P2W wathever) to kill dead hours.

So I think the optimization patch is a good way to keep new players.

PD: In Spain this game is a myth. No one knows about it because nobody can run it properly.

[Sledgecrushr]

I think Rolfski has hit the nail right on the head. Yes OMFG is incredibly important and if sucessful will net SOE tremendous amounts of cash. But hopefully that wont be the end of it. Soe needs to add personnel because this game needs more meat on its bones.

The second battle island needs to be a city. Urban combat is hugely popular and ps2 doesnt have it..yet.

Lighting needs a fix. The problem that I see on Hossin and during dark nights on Indar is that interior lighting matches exterior lighting even with ambient light in the room. There needs to be a distinction between the dark places outside and lit up interior spaces. Hossin will quickly fall out of favor because it is so dark all the time.

I should have put this at the top but CONTINENTAL LATTICE so we can get some map progression. Right now the only meta is your kdr and how best to pad that stat. Give us something else to work towards please devs.

Of course there are all sorts of vehicles, armor, and other little things that can be added to mix up gameplay but I think there is only one true game changer addition and that would be the Bastion air carrier. Soe devs, you do want people clamoring to play your game right? You want this thing to be the evening destination for millions of people. I think the bastion could help with that if its done correctly.

Soe, I dont consider this a complete project yet. Your efforts need to be redoubled.

[camycamera]

I agree, Rolfski.
The first time I quit was because I got 15 fps while I have 30-50 fps on other titles of the same year on high-medium settings.

I've return just because I'm starting to study and I need a long-term F2P (or P2W wathever) to kill dead hours.

So I think the optimization patch is a good way to keep new players.

PD: In Spain this game is a myth. No one knows about it because nobody can run it properly.
F2P means free to play, which PS2 is, and P2W means pay to win, which PS2 is not.

[Vashyo]

I've been waiting for some of these changes since beta. Its been a full year soon and the amount of gameplay changes is just non-existent. =(

Lattice is nice for a quick game now and then, but I'd really like to get some grander strategy aspects in there. Also New continents! So bored of the same old stuff, need more variety

[Emperor Newt]

LightNing needs a fix.
fixed that for you ;)

[Baptist]

My thoughts

The WDS system, they’ve mentioned that when the WDS goes live that the longer you hold a certain territory the more points it will be worth, this will be a great feature and I’d like to see at a glance on the map how many points each territory is worth, for example TR hold Camp Waterson and have done so for the last Three days making it worth Ten points every hour instead of the usual Three.
There’s my meta game, I can say to the guys our objective tonight is to remove that Ten point bonus, and when we do this, we get the visual indication of success on the map by seeing it’s point value drop.

Even the currant resource system could have something implemented without too much fuss, at the minute we receive resources from our supply lines which connect to the home Warp gate, I’d like for all three empires currant resource generation on each continent to be clearly shown, If my objective is to cut off resource generation by cutting supply lines, wouldn’t it be good to see one empires resource generation plummet due to the actions of my Outfit or Squad.

*Edit I realize there's a way to see each empires resource, but Clearly shown is what I'd be aiming at.*

[Escroteitor]

I've been waiting for some of these changes since beta. Its been a full year soon and the amount of gameplay changes is just non-existent. =(

Lattice is nice for a quick game now and then, but I'd really like to get some grander strategy aspects in there. Also New continents! So bored of the same old stuff, need more variety

Lattice is actually not making the game quicker. Lattice force you to go to one determined base, preventing massive expanding and increasing the chance of sucesful defense. Forcing massive long battles.

[ringring]

Lattice is actually not making the game quicker. Lattice force you to go to one determined base, preventing massive expanding and increasing the chance of sucesful defense. Forcing massive long battles.

That's not what he was referring to. He meant the nature of the game at present, without the global lattice and the strategic aspects that it engenders promotes smaller isolated fights without a wider meaning. The devs have attempted to give a wider meaning with events but it doesn't quite cut the mustard and in the end only provides interest because there is a gift of XP at the end of it. When you boil it down the game is about XP and it needn't be that.

[Mastachief]

The creation of hossin / 3 battle islands and other additional conts are absolutely the main building blocks to metagame. All efforts should really be on these.

The introduction of a intercontinental lattice will allow for home conts and warpgates (give us sanctuaries already, use the VR environment if you must, stick a warpgate in it). None of this will happen without hossin and the battle islands as a bare minimum. Searhus and Oshur need to be in before this time next year other wise imo the game will stall and die.

While work should always continue on the side things (but at a drastically reduced rate) such as:
Server transfers
Class revamps
Vehicle revamps
Map/base/outpost redesigns.

Continents provide the space and scope to make the metagame happen... just like the original.

Metagame is not a mythical beast, SOE invented it back in 2003, make it happen (by all means make it different but do get rid of the big "it was in ps1, so we dont want it" list.

[AThreatToYou]

Why don't we just cut Indar up into 3 battle islands once Hossin lands?

These could serve as home-islands, linked to a main continent and one battle island.

[Rahabib]

I agree metagame needs to be implemented next. Its the reason i stopped playing. I still check these forums hoping for some news, and honestly, just out of habit.

However I would like to see things prioritized as such:


Resource revamp. This will probably give us the most meaninful changes to the game as it will finally introduce some level of strategy beyond just, "which territories are linked."
Empire balancing. I still think honestly, this could be done via "manufacturing" component in the resource system (see my sig). If you tie everything to XP especially this late when most people have characters at a comfortable position and dont need XP as much, people will ignore it.
Side missions. However you want to call this, there should be side missions or objectives that push the battle rather than cluster everything up. These can be capture the flag type missions which gains intel or grants modified bonuses (minor). Gens unlocking shields and domes, ways to cut off resources, cutting off IA or jamming squad beacons to another team, etc. Just more things to do that affect the outcome rather than just the location of battles.
More continents. Yes this needs to happen, but this just adds variety and doesn't address the larger issue that battles get boring because the strategy and tactics are still shallow. Once battles and tactics have more variety and meaning, then introduce more locations.

[Lexstock]

I've been waiting nearly a year for this game to finally deliver what SOE promissed.. And it still hasn't happened. I lost hope, and basicly went in to the reserve of my outfit, as I can't be arsed anymore with how the game works right now. I want strategy back, and meaningful MBT's :(

[bpostal]

It's been noticed and suggested before but here it is again:
- Take Nexus, ctrl+C
- Ctrl+V
- Ctrl+V
- Draw lattice links and set up non-broadcast warpgates.
Tada! Global lattice without having to design Desolation, Extinction and Ascension. Plus this gives everyone more time/exposure to Nexus for that MLG whatsits.

[DracoJuris]

I could even wait some more on the larger concept metagame if they would just give us Hossin !!!!

[AuntLou]

I think the #1 priority should be Hossin and the battle islands. Little pretend meta games like WDS are just a bandaid and every time they work on them they take away people that could be working on the future meta game. Get Hossin and the battle islands rolling so we can have the continental lattice and play the natural meta game that Planetside 2 is supposed to have.

In the end it's pretty obvious they are going to work on exactly what is being suggested like they always were. It's stupid to assume after OMGF they are just going to focus on tossing nerf balls at each other or who is bringing in doughnuts the next day. OF course they are going to work on meta game!!! It's like no shit Sherlock! You really REALLY shouldn't be turning any heads with this suggestion.

[toksfive]

Even with more meta-game, I will be focusing on finding battles that offer the most KPM. To me meta-game is finding that high KPM battle. This is pretty shallow but, I specifically play PS2 for it's grinder style killfarms.

Hopefully more players will be satisfied if this meta-game content is enhanced.

[Mastachief]

I think the #1 priority should be Hossin and the battle islands. Little pretend meta games like WDS are just a bandaid and every time they work on them they take away people that could be working on the future meta game. Get Hossin and the battle islands rolling so we can have the continental lattice and play the natural meta game that Planetside 2 is supposed to have.

In the end it's pretty obvious they are going to work on exactly what is being suggested like they always were. It's stupid to assume after OMGF they are just going to focus on tossing nerf balls at each other or who is bringing in doughnuts the next day. OF course they are going to work on meta game!!! It's like no shit Sherlock! You really REALLY shouldn't be turning any heads with this suggestion.

I would suggest it is more to make sure the pressure is kept on SOE, showing them the changes the playerbase wants and needs most.

[Kalee J]

Hossin and more Meta-Game improvements are fairly neck and neck to me. I'm looking forward to the intercontinental lattice and other similar goodness.

[Phrygen]

new resource system is the key to a proper meta-game.

[Mastachief]

new resource system is the key to a proper meta-game.

It's really not. More continents so they can put intercontinental lattice in. The resource system is just another daft approach to to fixing what wasnt broken in ps1. Bring back a limited cert pool availability for vehicles and infantry classes. I want to lolpod, well no vanguard for you sunshine. 24hour recert timer.

[Rolfski]

As much as I would love a better "metagame" I think the game has more serious issues like the new player introduction and the "progression" system (which kind of ties in with #3 though). Metagame would surely help to keep the current players in the game, but the game needs to be able to keep new players in the first place. And from what I see it's pretty bad at that. And I doubt that people quit because of the lack of a "metagame", but because the game is too confusing and/or not fun enough.
Although the new maps and metagame systems will undoubtedly add complexity for newer players, it also will also bring new options to lower the learning curve. The upcoming mission system could be a very powerful tool to gradually make players comfortable with the game mechanics.

It's been noticed and suggested before but here it is again:
- Take Nexus, ctrl+C
- Ctrl+V
- Ctrl+V
- Draw lattice links and set up non-broadcast warpgates.
Tada! Global lattice without having to design Desolation, Extinction and Ascension. Plus this gives everyone more time/exposure to Nexus for that MLG whatsits.
Temporary copy-paste battle islands should be well worth considering by SOE vs waiting at least another 6 months for any continental lattice, which is unacceptable imo.

It allows the devs to flesh out the continental meta-game while on the other hand giving proper time to design these new maps.

The players wouldn't mind these placeholder islands at all but if necessary, devs could change up a few textures and non-critical assets to make them look somewhat different for the time being.

[Rahabib]

new resource system is the key to a proper meta-game.
amen. although I think everyone here has their own idea of "meta-game." I find this term essentially meaningless in a debate where there is no solid definition. But better resources and meaning behind victory and defeat would add a level of complexity to this game that it sorely needs.

[BlaxicanX]

It's going to be a sad day filled with angst and much gnashing of teeth when they finally implement the continental lattice and people realize that it doesn't do a damn thing to add any strategic depth or end-goal to the game.

[Tuhljin]

I agree metagame needs to be implemented next. Its the reason i stopped playing.

Comments like this really make me cringe.

Developers cannot "implement a metagame". That doesn't make any sense. The metagame is the players' job. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metagaming)

Metagame =/= higher-level objectives.

What you're actually asking for are more strategic components and systems.

[robocpf1]

What a weird post. You should suggest something tangible, like duplicating Nexus three times just so we can get the continent lattice live asap.

I asked Higby this question at SOE Live, and he said something along the lines of "Yes, we could do that, but it will end up taking around the same amount of time".

If I remember correctly it had something to do with the resource revamp taking precedence, so they either release three Nexuses for the lattice with Hossin with the current resource system or they get the new resource system finished while design artists are working on the other two islands for the lattice. Something like that.

I forget the entire conversation, but the gist of it is that it won't save any time.

[Calista]

They have to be getting closed to being done with Desolation by now anyway.

[PredatorFour]

After optimisation, i'd rather they fix the parts of the game that are broke.

[Rahabib]

Comments like this really make me cringe.

Developers cannot "implement a metagame". That doesn't make any sense. The metagame is the players' job. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metagaming)

Metagame =/= higher-level objectives.

What you're actually asking for are more strategic components and systems.
I am sorry you had to cringe. You are right. Metagame isn't the right term to use. The devs can give us options to pursue deeper more varied avenues that add depth to your choices in game. That's what I meant.

[Sledgecrushr]

I am sorry you had to cringe. You are right. Metagame isn't the right term to use. The devs can give us options to pursue deeper more varied avenues that add depth to your choices in game. That's what I meant.

Isnt this what metagame means?

[Rahabib]

Isnt this what metagame means?
Depends on who you ask. Metagame is kind of a buzz word to people.

[Sledgecrushr]

Theres all different kinds of metagame. Look at what some outfitss are doing with competitive gameplay, now thats chock full of metagame. What we are discussing in this post is the continued introduction of gameplay mechanics that will continue to create a varied and deep gaming experience. This also is metagame.

[BlaxicanX]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metagame

Educate yourselves, friends.

[Sledgecrushr]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metagame

Educate yourselves, friends.

Metagame. I looked at your link and I do believe we are talking about the same thing. I believe that you think new stuff and game mechanics does not equal metgame. This is where your logic is betraying you, because metagame does not devlop in a vaccume. The items and mechanics that we are asking for will create metagame. Because metagame isnt just a new vehicle or game mechanic, its what you do with it and the decisions that you make that is metagame.

[Root Hade]

I asked Higby this question at SOE Live, and he said something along the lines of "Yes, we could do that, but it will end up taking around the same amount of time".

If I remember correctly it had something to do with the resource revamp taking precedence, so they either release three Nexuses for the lattice with Hossin with the current resource system or they get the new resource system finished while design artists are working on the other two islands for the lattice. Something like that.

I forget the entire conversation, but the gist of it is that it won't save any time.

What the heck? But... that makes it sound like creating the two other Battle Islands will take a similar amount of time/resources as setting up the Cont Lattice? Surely its not that hard? Is the resource revamp actually really complex with the Battle Islands and resource flow inbetween warpgates or some shit?

Well thanks / good job on asking anyway.

[ringring]

So resource revamp before metagame or inter-continental strategy, whatever you want to call it.

We shouldn't be surprised. There has been no desire to do it since way prior to launch and we see it's still isn't priority. 3 continents and 3 3-ways. Great, super.

Now mlg, that's a priority.

[Calista]

Higby said yesterday they are pushing hard to get Hossin done before PS2/PS4 launch but didn't indicate a timeframe. Don't recall if he mentioned BI completion though so maybe it will be another TDM map? Who knows.

[BlaxicanX]

Metagame. I looked at your link and I do believe we are talking about the same thing. I believe that you think new stuff and game mechanics does not equal metgame. This is where your logic is betraying you, because metagame does not devlop in a vaccume. The items and mechanics that we are asking for will create metagame. Because metagame isnt just a new vehicle or game mechanic, its what you do with it and the decisions that you make that is metagame.

You might have me confused with someone else.

[typhaon]

Arguing over the word seems silly. I think we all know what we're talking about... more and better things to do.

Definitely a more refined conquest system.

For my part... PS2 feels like it's caught in this murky area where it isn't quite a top shooter... and isn't quite a top global conquest game. It's just kind of mediocre at a few things.

Having said that - maybe ^that game IS generating the income SOE wants - I just don't think it has created a game that is all that special.

[ringring]

Arguing over the word seems silly. I think we all know what we're talking about... more and better things to do.

Definitely a more refined conquest system.

For my part... PS2 feels like it's caught in this murky area where it isn't quite a top shooter... and isn't quite a top global conquest game. It's just kind of mediocre at a few things.

Having said that - maybe ^that game IS generating the income SOE wants - I just don't think it has created a game that is all that special.
I think you're right, arguing over the meaning of metagame is pedantry. I also think you're right in that ps2 has been a great success and is generating a lot of revenue I just think it is a good game but not a great one.

[Vashyo]

That's not what he was referring to. He meant the nature of the game at present, without the global lattice and the strategic aspects that it engenders promotes smaller isolated fights without a wider meaning. The devs have attempted to give a wider meaning with events but it doesn't quite cut the mustard and in the end only provides interest because there is a gift of XP at the end of it. When you boil it down the game is about XP and it needn't be that.

Xactly. Only reason I play PS2 now is XP gathering so I can unlock better stuff, but it's really feeling like work so I don't want to do it much anymore. Usually just play until I get the 5 ribbons, then log off. Which is usually 1-2 hours for me.

I like lattice, because atleast when I'm bored, I can log-in, quickly get to a battle to shoot some people and it usually lasts long enough so that I dont have to constantly travel, but there's still no meaning whatsoever in taking terrain. Heck taking over terrain gives u much less XP than just participating in combat. If you prioritize terrain capture instead of combat, you will be handicapped against higher ranked players who've unlocked better stuff longer.
You won't get any tangible rewards for taking over a continent and you actually dont even take them over cause the battle will go on, you can't even "capture continent" at peak times because theres too many players resisting it from 2 other sides.


The games not bad in anyway, it's actually better than all the other shooters I've played (expect maybe PS1), but as an MMO it's quite pathetic.

It's just that they built so much hype and we've yet to see anyof that hype materializing, and I'm starting to think it never will. This whole year has been about fixing a broken game more than adding more depth to it.
Besides, SOE is trying to fix complex issues in simple ways and this means I will likely never quite get what I was originally looking for in this game.

I'm very frustrated that their focus is to become MLG-game more than something much greater. That is definately not going to do anything for me, just push back the things I'm looking for further into the future.


I'm likely going to ditch PS2 completely for Star Citizen once it launches, that game seems to offer FPS-elements and have unnatural scope with insane gameplay variety + immersion planned for it.

[Rivenshield]

I haven't played in a month, even to check in. I know what I'll find. Indarside.

Until we get the intercontinental lattice and people have something to fight *for*, this game will continue to wither on the vine, perhaps beyond the point of recovery.

[AppleJax]

Psssh, i heard that they pushed the optimizations to the 30th now. ugh, that was just painful to hear. Knowing that i have to wait another two weeks, just so i can play the damn game. They should have realized that not everyone have gaming rigs. Their game heavily replies on people to make it work, how the heck do they expected it to keep getting players if they leave out the ones without any souped up pcs.

they have to hurry with these optimizations quick. Or else it'll be like when the tiger tank came into the battle, to late my friend.

Shit i mean games like starwars battlefront three are preparing to be released soon, development of a 3rd dawn of war MMO is rumored. There wont any reason to wait around for this game if there are other games that satisfy my or our needs. This game would be another ones of those games with wasted potential.

[Rolfski]

I haven't played in a month, even to check in. I know what I'll find. Indarside.

Until we get the intercontinental lattice and people have something to fight *for*, this game will continue to wither on the vine, perhaps beyond the point of recovery.

The recent changes in WDS, were you now get bonus points for fighting on busy continents, will probably inflate the Indarside issue even more. Which only increases the need for Operation Meaningful Game imo.

[synkrotron]

Okay, don't laugh too hard... Only I've never heard of the term "metagame" before. So, I looked it up and I'm still not one hundred percent sure, especially having read the posts above.

My interpretation of metagame is when you use information, or resources, or whatever, outside of the game in order to make choices within the game. So I'm not sure where new continents, as such, fit into this.

But, please, I am willing, and very keen to learn about my new (outside of real life) universe.

Could I add, while I am here, that I was a little bit surprised that we're unable to do certain things outside of logging into the game itself.

What I am talking about here is the ability to log into a website and modify your character's loadouts, upgrade tools/utilities, purchase new stuff, with certs or SC.

The reason I ask this is because I can't always sit in front of my gaming monitor and doing this kind of thing in-game takes up valuable battle time. I'd like to be able to tweak my character settings outside of the game, from the comfort of my "easy chair" while the missus is watching two and a half men, or something just as boring.

Sorry to bring this up here, if it is not appropriate, I felt it was easier than creating a new topic.

cheers

andy

[Calista]

SOE is too busy with their own metagame to provide one for us. Basically they are focused on how to create a game experience that promotes cash shop purchases while supporting what is fundamentally just a first person shooter title (albeit on a grand scale). What we are looking for is an overarching game experience that transcends a typical first person shooter. They are making attempts with WDS and alerts and such but it isn't enough since neither are lasting or player defined. What is missing here is a world constructed in such a way that player action alone can shape and reward such actions.

But now there is another variable creeping into the equation and that is PS4. I can see a tug of war evolving where differing playstyles and expectations from a very large console install base conflict with PC player expectancy, essentially round based versus persistence. Over the long term it isn't hard to envision where this will go. We'll probably have many of these tiny BI instanced type areas patched into the global framework somehow to appease the PS4 crowd and maybe some on the PC side as well. It all depends on which platform SOE will focus development efforts going forward as to how a metagame evolves but I know which side my bet would be on.

[ringring]

Okay, don't laugh too hard... Only I've never heard of the term "metagame" before. So, I looked it up and I'm still not one hundred percent sure, especially having read the posts above.

My interpretation of metagame is when you use information, or resources, or whatever, outside of the game in order to make choices within the game. So I'm not sure where new continents, as such, fit into this.

But, please, I am willing, and very keen to learn about my new (outside of real life) universe.

Could I add, while I am here, that I was a little bit surprised that we're unable to do certain things outside of logging into the game itself.

What I am talking about here is the ability to log into a website and modify your character's loadouts, upgrade tools/utilities, purchase new stuff, with certs or SC.

The reason I ask this is because I can't always sit in front of my gaming monitor and doing this kind of thing in-game takes up valuable battle time. I'd like to be able to tweak my character settings outside of the game, from the comfort of my "easy chair" while the missus is watching two and a half men, or something just as boring.

Sorry to bring this up here, if it is not appropriate, I felt it was easier than creating a new topic.

cheers

andy

that's fine. Metagame is a term that has been used in relation to planetside for 10 years or so, ie when Planetside 1 was hale and hearty.

When used it refers to the players acting together to formulate strategies for the conquest of auraxsis. However, while the discussion may or may not be done outside of the game the game itself must be able to support the strategies and ps2 does not do this particularly well.

So, in ps terms the metagame includes functions such as:
- More continents (e.g. Hossin, Nexus and the battle islands and hopefully more.
- An inter-continental lattice
- Fully capturable warp gates (apart from 1 or 2 'home warpgates for each empire)
- Intercontinenal lattice
- Functioning warpgates (ie you and your vehicle and any passengers can warp to any continent by entering the centre beam of a warpgate.)
All this above is on the devs Roadmap.

Additionally to this I would like
better comms and command tools
sanctuaries - I doubt we'll get this.

[Rahabib]

Okay, don't laugh too hard... Only I've never heard of the term "metagame" before. So, I looked it up and I'm still not one hundred percent sure, especially having read the posts above.

My interpretation of metagame is when you use information, or resources, or whatever, outside of the game in order to make choices within the game. So I'm not sure where new continents, as such, fit into this.

But, please, I am willing, and very keen to learn about my new (outside of real life) universe.

Could I add, while I am here, that I was a little bit surprised that we're unable to do certain things outside of logging into the game itself.

What I am talking about here is the ability to log into a website and modify your character's loadouts, upgrade tools/utilities, purchase new stuff, with certs or SC.

The reason I ask this is because I can't always sit in front of my gaming monitor and doing this kind of thing in-game takes up valuable battle time. I'd like to be able to tweak my character settings outside of the game, from the comfort of my "easy chair" while the missus is watching two and a half men, or something just as boring.

Sorry to bring this up here, if it is not appropriate, I felt it was easier than creating a new topic.

cheers

andy

Don't worry. most people are using the term incorrectly. It means what you want it to mean here.

[Rolfski]

Okay, don't laugh too hard... Only I've never heard of the term "metagame" before. So, I looked it up and I'm still not one hundred percent sure, especially having read the posts above.


I actually completely regret using the term "meta game" for this topic. Forget about it and please replace it with "meaningful game", as it drifts away from the original discussion:
If Smedley can a have his whole PS2 dev team grind to a hold to fix what needed to be fixed ages ago (optimization) why not learn from this and focus to fix that second biggest thing that needed to be fixed ages ago, aka meaningful game?

[Lord Mondando]

It's the biggest gap in PS2's appeal. It looses players and has lost legions of players because of the lack of purpose behind actions.

Metagame is a fairly vacous term and in many other games its about taking a role, or the strategies about strategies (espeically in simple games like MOBA's). In planetside (and i include PS1 in this), I think it needs to be defined as systems of strategic mechanics in the game, that give each individual action (namely combat) a sense within a larger whole.

We took that base, to take the lane, to take the WG to be able to attack Hossin. For example.

Currently its take objective... because... alert and arbitrary cert reward? There is no meaningful context behind anything we do besides what outfits themselves create.

Which is great and all, but SOE managed to make game which also had mechanics once to actually make the notion you were part of some large and complex conflict believable (many things about PS1 i did not like mind you).

As i've said elsewhere all the focus and resources possible need to go into this as quickly as humanly possible.

Nothing else lacks so much, or is needed as much.

And the proposals the community and SOE appear to have developed, warrant a working development build of Continental lattice and logistics based resource revamp being developed for public testing on the PTS as priority that dwarfs all others.

[james]

The lack of meta has killed the game. I have watched the outfit i play with, go from platoons of players every day down to a couple squads. If there isn't meta game soon, the already dieing game will be done. SOE had a window throughout the summer to get their shit together. They didn't. Now PS2 is going to have to fight other games for your time. I love the game but i haven't played regular in long time. The fact it too a year to get the game runable for most people is just pure unacceptable. It seemed SOE thought they would have the community put up with a several year beta.

[hashish]

Really sad to say, but its true.. The game is just hollow now.. There is no metagame, everything is pretty much recycled from map content, to weapons for infantry and vehicles.. Even the players all the cosmetic items SUCK ! (specially on VS) There is like 0 incentive to actually play the game for so many hours.. No incentive to grind or pay to buy things because everything either gets nerfed or it just sucks so bad, OR - you have to use the weapon in a group with people who all have the same thing (which is hard to come by) So it sucks eitherway..

Everything seems to be so bloody balanced that its the exact same as what you had before.. There is almost NO variety in this game and it certainly does not even feel like planetside 1 did which was and still is a great well made and thought of game..

PS2 on the other hand has lost soooo many old PS players now becuase it has no metagame - no variety - very bad recycled design of 99% of things in the game - no incentive to actually continue playing because the newer stuff you unlock looks exactly the same as what u had before and maybe does 5% more damage LOL what a JOKE..

All in all this has caused the main PS players to just get absolutley bored out of their minds trying to run properly organised outfits.. WHY ? Because the game ultimately feels like Battlefield (due to its simplification - PS1 was not simplified like PS2) And because it feels like a BF game you will get people going on PS looking for BF game and not an MMO..

RIP PS2 - Used to love PS back in the day and still have PS2 installed even though i dont play it anymore.. Hope we get some changes in 2015.. I still think if they just re-created Planetside 1 the ORIGINAL ! It would have been sooooo much better than what ps is now.. Even though Battlefield/call of duty players might not enjoy it, us FPS MMO fans would have enjoyed it..

[igster]

People argue about the term metagame all the time - it's very tedious. The term meta game is very appropriate despite people trying to tell you its not the right term - it is an appropriate term - 'hidden game' or 'beyond the game'.

So many games have layers of complexity.

FPS = shoot the other guy in front of you.

next level of abstraction is to capture the objective (capture the flag)

next level of abstraction is to capture all the objectives and move on to the next base.

next level of abstraction(or hidden game) is to organise your team to kill the players in the other team very efficiently

next level of abstraction(or even more hidden game) is to organise your team to annoy the entire opposition faction by causing them to have to react to what your small team are doing


Some of these sub games are provided for you, e.g. capture mechanics. Others have to be provided by the players largely with help from the game, e.g. organisation into squads is supported by a squad interface, a platoon interface, a chat system.

So there are sub-games within the game. Hence meta game - hidden strategy behind the simple game of kill stuff.

PS2's issue is that the number of levels of meta game (abstractions of the game) stops at capturing a base. There is no 'win condition' other than pegging both of the other teams back to their warpgate
- which can mostly be achieved by massively out populating the other team.
- and also there is no immediately obvious route back in from being camped in your warpgate other than crashing the server and making people log off

Why are you taking the base in PS2? How do you intend to maintain the territory you are taking? Eventually it will be taken back so it ends up like a game of chess where the enemy pieces that you take simply respawn on the chess board - the game has no win condition.
It used to happen for times in PS1 where there was 'Cyssorcide' or a perpetual 3 way battle where the 3 factions would just permanently be cancelling each other out fighting over the same piece of land.
The cide comes from most players wanting to commit suicide after a short amount of time as they became bored of the same fight over and over again.

Well this is PS2 gameplay at the very highest level. All of the guys that used to hate the cheap grinding thrills of a permanent three way are almost certainly now playing other games now.

This is the complex gameplay that a lot of us Planetside 1 players urgently crave. There were times when the game dropped into a 3 way but for the most part there were rich gameplay mechanisms for moving the fights around the world map and creating exciting situations for both small groups and also large groups.

Continent locking strategies meant you could work towards pushing the other factions off a continent therefore moving the fight around the map. Imagine not being able to fight on Indar until you'd taken a base on Amerish. This then allows higher level strategies to flood in.

Back hacking or draining of bases was another great element of gameplay where a base behind the enemy lines could be taken by small tight units against a larger force to obtain footholds in locked continents. Together with global command structures interested experienced players tended to then have to band together to work to react to prevent these situations arising. It also led to specialisation teams who loved to do nothing else other than be a pain in the ass trying to get the other teams to react to them.

This is what we need.

What we have at the moment in PS2 is an awesome game of paintball in the same wood. We have three woods. You can't win the war because the woods have no impact on each other. You always start at the same bit of the wood. You always fight on the same bit of land and the it's a permanent game of capture the flag on the same map. And the map sometimes sucks. And you log on and get a sense of deja vu because it is the same people fighting perpetually over the same bit of the sucky map night after night.

What we had in PS1 was a interlinked set of woods and you could force the other teams out of your woods and you could post sentries on the paths between the woods who could then call for backup. There were ways to do secret missions into the other teams woods and mess with them. The map was almost always different. You were fighting over new zones and attacking and defending from and to different places all of the time. You rarely logged on and it was the same fight you had the night before (it did occasionally happen)



Well we've had over a year of indarside. The performance has moved up a ton. We want the map to be changed. We want the rich gameplay now guys. We want the Planetside back in Planetside 2. Planetside 1 wasn't just about 'epic battles' They were made 'Epic' by the richness of the game which attracted epic smart players who were not only twitchy pew pew lonewolves but the game allowed exhilarating teamplay both on the small squad level and on the large team level.

We had the classic small squad Generator holds behind enemy lines, last minute resecures, meaningful base benefits (not just numbers on your resource harvesting), radar benefits, alien technology benefits, filthy base shield benefits but also gameplay mechanics to avoid all of these (hacking, sensor shields, cloaked AMSes sitting outside an enemy owned base on a locked continent allowing you to pull a Tank where no one expected it)

Planetside 1 upon release had much richer gameplay than PS2 has right now. Planetside 1 after the 2004 update (The Bending) was a very rich strategic gameplay and had many levels. We want depth over content.


We've had Battleside for over a year now(beta release Nov 2012). Now give us Planetside. (go Malorn!!)

I am worried though that Battleside for the PS4 is going to be the next focus.

[JackD]

I doubt that there will be any major change within the next 6 months, probably not even Hossein.

We got the Harasser and the optimization. Game basically is just out of Beta.

[torokf]

This Thursday comes the first Command Center of the year 2014
and as of Tomorrow 07/01/2014 holydays are over at SOE and they'll start working again on the game!

I need to get Hyped! :groovy:

I'm excited for this year

[Calista]

With EQ:N Landmark starting beta and the attention it will receive internally from SOE and the PS4 pending launch of PS2, I don't see PC version of PS2 getting very much focus going forward. They have spent far too much time and money fixing what should have been realized as deficiencies way back before launch. Think of all the things Higby was intent (hellbent) on having in the game that have had to be unwound and put on top of that the crappy performance that caused several weeks of nothing new released and you have a great opportunity wasted by SOE. The only real growth hope at this point for PS2 is PS4 and when it comes down to it, if the PS4 guys scream for something to be changed in game, it will be done and you can count on that. Let's just hope they scream for more depth like we have for the past 1.5 years.

[Shamrock]

What we have at the moment in PS2 is an awesome game of paintball in the same wood. We have three woods. You can't win the war because the woods have no impact on each other. You always start at the same bit of the wood. You always fight on the same bit of land and the it's a permanent game of capture the flag on the same map. And the map sometimes sucks. And you log on and get a sense of deja vu because it is the same people fighting perpetually over the same bit of the sucky map night after night.

What we had in PS1 was a interlinked set of woods and you could force the other teams out of your woods and you could post sentries on the paths between the woods who could then call for backup. There were ways to do secret missions into the other teams woods and mess with them. The map was almost always different. You were fighting over new zones and attacking and defending from and to different places all of the time. You rarely logged on and it was the same fight you had the night before (it did occasionally happen)

In PS1 we had the classic small squad Generator holds behind enemy lines, last minute resecures, meaningful base benefits (not just numbers on your resource harvesting), radar benefits, alien technology benefits, filthy base shield benefits but also gameplay mechanics to avoid all of these (hacking, sensor shields, cloaked AMSes sitting outside an enemy owned base on a locked continent allowing you to pull a Tank where no one expected it)



I liked the woods analogy, made me smile.

[Badjuju]

For the meta game argument, as much as it strangely irritates me to see metagame constantly used wrong in planetside arguments, I guess we're all fallowing what point is trying to be made in many cases. It does feel very awkward when used this way as it doesn't make sense in terms of the words meaning.

Just to through it out there as there are allot of confusing arguments in this post. Meta game in the simplest sense is the overall strategy the community develops to play the game. It consists of the tactics, play styles, items/weapons/vehicles used and overall approach to playing the game (whether it may be completing objectives or some obscure goal the community created). Meta game typically is constantly evolving based on changing game mechanics or simply by new tactics being developed and the overall community fallowing suit.

Examples. When HE was beastly as he'll. It was the meta game to pull massive MBT tank Zergs, all equipped with HE cannons, and hammer every base you came across so nothing could survive outside the spawn. Very shallow meta game, yet still the general meta game at the time.

In PS1, a large part of the meta game was to gal drop 2-3 full loads of troops on a base, while friendly forces where at the walls of the base. The shift of focus to defend the cc or generator being assulted by the dropped troops often allowed friendly forces the break through defenses. Just a small part of the meta game in PS1, but an easy example and very memorable.

Meta game may also differ on other servers. For example, in my brief experience on Connery. Foot Zergs seem to be a much larger part of the meta game than on waterson (again brief experience so could be wrong). If a large part of the community is foot zerging base to base then that's part of the meta game. No deep strategy their but meta game non the less.

There are not allot of good examples of meta game in PS1, because the meta game is not very complex. The game just isn't demanding enough for one and people are not motivated to do anything but find a fight as objectives and cont control are rather meaningless. XP and resource rewards just don't matter of you don't feel victorious.

So I guess a better way to restate the overall argument that uses meta game appropriately is that we want a more complex, meaningful, and objective game which lays the foundation for the community to develope a deeper and complex meta game.