"What are your top balance concerns?"

[GeoGnome]

Link to Twitter post

So there is the question: What would you like to see balance wise.


My biggest one is that if the lock-on changes are to be applied to the Striker, they should be applied to all of the other lock-on launchers.

[KesTro]

It was my understanding they are applied to all other lock-ons. At least that's how it seemed the first week of that patch, haven't used much lock-ons save for A2A just to piss people off. :P I would like to see harasser vs. tank balance looked into, specifically the harasser ES weapons, namely the vulcan. On top of that Zealot still needs looking into, it's not the damage it's the speed boost they get, the strafing in particular.

[GreyFrog]

Grounder, Hawk, Nemesis are still fire and forget. If you have your target in view and stop ADS to reload the striker the missiles break lock.

[KarrdeBRBU]

Striker needs some fixing (not really nerfing per se). Just reduce the range a touch and make it maintain lock instead of true lock. IE if you lose tracking and fail to reaquire it just follows last known trajectory. Let the Phoenix be the one who can nail ppl behind rocks (at the cost of losing perspective on self and one shot at a time).

Also vulcan needs serious nerfing. DPS is just too high and it massacres everything (and this comes from a harasser driver who decried the previous nerfs)

[MGP]

Striker needs some fixing (not really nerfing per se). Just reduce the range a touch and make it maintain lock instead of true lock. IE if you lose tracking and fail to reaquire it just follows last known trajectory. Let the Phoenix be the one who can nail ppl behind rocks (at the cost of losing perspective on self and one shot at a time).

Also vulcan needs serious nerfing. DPS is just too high and it massacres everything (and this comes from a harasser driver who decried the previous nerfs)
Striker IS "maintain lock" for about a month. Are you living under a rock?

[HereticusXZ]

Population skew

[Nur]

They need to change completely the MAX spawn mechanics.

Remove running, make them slower. Rework ZOE Maxes.

Make loadout not changeable after spawn (like tanks)

Make them cost 600 resources, no resurrection from medics, spawn time starting from the moment MAX dies and not from the moment you spawn it.


The MAXES are a big issue in this game.

[typhaon]

* ZOE should be scrapped and Vanu MAX given something else entirely. Maybe the ZOE makes them invulnerable to explosive damage for a short time?

* Vulcan-H on Harassers should be definitely be nerfed. In general, I think all faction Harassers are too powerful vs. other vehicles. Even as poor old NC, I think it's cheese that I can solo spawn a Harasser, then snipe Sundys from halfway across the map with the Enforcer... and the generic E540 or whatever is just as much a nightmare.

* Enforcer C85 Modified should be made into a usable ES-secondary.

* Gun balance is getting there, but I think a decent amount of work still needs to be done. It isn't hard to make a list of weapons that seem to be over-performing and under-performing. I think this stems from just not quite having the right feel for proper value of certain stats.

[Mordelicius]

Overpowered:

Harassers Backseat repair and Armor should be a sidegrade to each and cannot exist together. And there should be a significan Armor reduction (it's a BUGGY not a tank). Currently it's a tank with a Buggy skin and movement.

Harasser advantages (it has no weakness)
- Speed
- Ability to change direction on the fly (making it hard to lead weapon counters against it)
- High Ambush rating (picks vulnerable targets) And who can escape a Harasser when ambushed?
- High Escape rating (avoids ambush easily). There not enough DPS that counter it if is bent on hitting-and-running.
- Rarely flips.
- Avoids AV Mine damage (due to its sheer speed)
- Easily run over players (and not take damage from it)
- Has the DPS of a tank
- Has the Armor of atank
- Two passengers
- Repair Seat
- Can fire from a top of a mountain and not get hit (fiing arc should be changed)

Vulcan (Harasser) - Strong against vehicles, infantry and aircraft. It melts tanks short range and still deliver damage at range. It's basically Basilisk on steroid.

fix: significantly reduce damage against vehicles

Marauder (Harasser) - It's basically an anti-infantry C4 projective.

fix: significantly reduce splash range and damage. Reduce ammo.

Zoe Max - What is a ZOE Max? Zoe Max has the damage mitigation of an NC Max with the Damage buff of a TR Max. And what's the downside? Nothing. The lowered armor is mitigated by damage avoidance due to its ridiculous speed.

I'm just going to copy paste my last post on the ZOE (along with suggested fixes):

Yes, the ZOE doesn't really have a downside. Their so-called "downside" can be mitigated by two things:

- stupidly fast movement
- engineer repair

Compared to an NC Max which has a front shield. Let's say for sake of argument, damage mitigation is 50% (with back and side exposed).

A ZOE Max has 100% of the body exposed by due to the strafe speed. Let's again say for argument's sake, it has a similar 50% damage mitigation avoiding shots.

Now you know where this is heading. A Vanu Max can shoot (with high DPS buff), run fast and flank with impunity. While an NC Max has literally 0 DPS. Zero. Zero! So, practically the same survivability/damage mitigation but this thing can shoot at ALL RANGE WITH EASE,
making them ridiculously OP especially (but not limited to) long range, high ground or when they are bunched together. All they have to do is point at any door/cover and blast away. The infantry target won't have any dps counter whatsoever. Rocket launcher? Yeah try to hit a ZOE Max with a rocket at long range. They are already hard to hit at medium to short range as it is due to speed and unpredictable movement.

ZOE Max possible fixes:

1 - I'm also for removing the speed buff altogether and I've posted that many months ago. I addition, remove the extra damage it takes. Make it basically the same as a TR Max with no extra attack rate buff, but the same damage buff.

2 - Another alternative solution would be cooldown/energy use. It's far too spammable. In addition there should be a slight activation/deactivation time (I suggest 2 seconds) so it can't be just toggled on and off.

3 - Another different solution would be a no-repair state when ZOE is active and 5 seconds after it is turned off.

Vanu Infantry Weapons - Especially the SVA88. Vanu weapons are way too hipfire friendly.

Our NC weapons, we have to ADS but we can't move (making us easy targets). If we hipfire, it's inaccurate as hell. Reduce the movement bonuses to Vanu weapons. Their accuracy/no drop/no recoil is enough. All NC has is extra damage on a 2-3 weapons. I've used Gauss Saw and ACX11 for too long to know this :lol:

Read Maradine's original Oracle of Death thread to see which weapons are way overboard (mostly Vanu infantry).

AV Mana Turret - The range has to go. It has too much damage at long range. If the range cannot be changed, then the damage curve at long range should skydive.

These guys go to the highest of cliffs. Expose nothing but the nose and spam away. In addition, there should be a deploy timer to these. No resources required but for balancing purpose, it can't just be spam deployed.
If it's destroyed, one can't simply plop down a new one so fast.


Underpowered:

NC Max need a Rail Gun (Mid-long fire infantry supression fire) - I never use myself NC Maxes, but it is painfully obvious, us NC lack mid-long range infantry fire suppression.

Both the TR and VS Max can spam mid-long range attacks to prevent the opposition from moving. The NC Max have to be next to the door, making it very vulnerable to Grenades/C4/Mines/Rocket Launcher or if it's outside the Biolab, Tanks/ESF/Libs.

If you line up 5 rocks versus 5 rocks and put NC and VS/TR behind those rocks, guess who can get to the opposite rocks first? The NC won't get far. We won't be even to peek out of the rocks because we'll be spammed. The NC Max can't do that.

All VS/TR Max have to do is sit on top stairs, or the end of a corridor and stack damage. No infantry or even NC Max will survive. With an engineer repairer beside these Maxes, (in an infantry fight), there are very few cases where they can be taken down. In an organized/controlled enviroment, it's even harder because all angles are normally covered in those situations.

[MGP]

NC Max need a Rail Gun (Mid-long fire infantry supression fire)

So you want to keep your CQB godmode, while also getting good long-med range option? Don't you think you're asking for too much?
If you want NC to have a long range pistols (yes, pistols. DPS of single arm of TR AI MAX is the same as a pistol), you have to give TR/VS some OMGWTFBBQ instagib close range option.

Edit: also it has been mentioned by Higby what it's the TR MAXes who are "underperforming" and going to be buffed, not NC ones.

[DredVS]

Lock-ons need to be what they suggested months ago on the Roadmap:


Variable lock-on time in relation to distance (benefits high flyers)
Having to keep a target locked on the entire time (no more fire-and-forget)
Rocket speed increased (combats hovering)
Rocket lifespan decreased (benefits high flyers)


I'd say it's more of a rework than a straight-up nerf.

This makes lock-ons a less abusive weapon for zone control, and more of a tool used to target hoverers. If you can do evasive maneuvers, you can enter areas spammed with lock-ons and still get out alive.

If you are going to lolpod hover or zephyr hover, you are going to have a very bad time.

[torokf]

-> Remove ZOE Speed boost
-> New drop pod mechanics as hinted by Malorn Months ago

Mentioned this last week but we have some drop pod changes coming too. They won't be as steerable and defenders and for instant action attacker pods will come down in different parts of a facility. Defenders will come down in the interior and the attackers will come down around the outside for better flow.

Squad deploy is a tricky one, but I'd like to have that function more like instant action and follow the above rules.
Where are these?! This should be top priority already, life expectancy of an AMS sunderer is below acceptable time, can last 1 minute against drop pod abuse, would also help Light assaults being the true rooftop rulers and not a place where you fight br<10 rocket launcher heavies lol, or some UBGL engineer farming -.-

-> Ofcourse C85 Proper tweaks and balance,
Suggestion 1: Rework to make it One round only per magazine with Very huge horizontal spread, high damage per pellet & high count of total pellets, 15-16, ends up being deadly up close to one target, instead beyond 10+ meters it only wounds multiple targets, requiring more than one round to finish them off, reload speed certifiable, starting 2.5 secs down to 2.
Suggestion 2: make a proper magazine size cert tree ffs! It's currently 5 to 6 round for 500 certs, make it default 6 up to 12 rounds per magazine, PPA and Marauder both have huge magazines, why can't we have one?
If it's not a faction trait then follow Suggestion 1;
also buff projectile speed a LOT, it's way to hard to hit targets while moving with the current values.
-> NC MAX Slugs, MAKE THEM UNLOCKED BY DEFAULT! the NC max have the Mediumrange option, but people doesn't have that many certifications to get it, Give them a Hand and you'll see half the posts about the NC MAX being UP.
Then help us know what are they and what do they do! Update the Tooltip with a clear description of how Slugs do their work, e.g. specifiy that the accuracy is hindered by movement and the value damage is the same per each scattercannon, did anyone actually know this?
Because I just found out about this after 11 months That I've been playing the MAX!
People wants a medium range option for the NC max, but the truth is that WE HAVE IT! Make it clear and help new players out by giving them the Slugs for FREE!
You know this wouldn't harm anyone.

[Sirisian]

Where are these?!
They're on PTS already. 40 meter range now around the beacon. Not sure about instant action though.

I'd still prefer their removal. It's the one mechanic that completely negates walls and front lines. The 40 meter range on PTS isn't going to stop it. I usually put myself in my own platoon for instance when playing so I have my own squad beacon. I'll slam it down in a tree where it can't be killed next to the enemy sunderer then charge and place a C4. When I die I just drop down with more C4 for a free kill. Same can be done with mines. It probably sounded like a fun mechanic, but in a game with front lines it just doesn't work.

I'd rather see it replaced with a vehicle like the BF 2142 APC. Something that costs resources and has a logistical component that it must be driven to where it's used rather than anyone that falls from a esf or gal suddenly gets unlimited lives.

[ChipMHazard]

- Harassers: Seem to be too effective overall at what they do when compared to tanks. Mordelicius gave a good rundown on what could possibly be changed about them and/or buff tanks to make the gap more noticeable.

TR Harasser weapons: The Marauder-H is by far the most effective and popular of all empire specific harasser weapons and it needs to be rebalanced. The Vulcan-H isn't nearly as bad. I wouldn't want to see NC and VS weapons being buffed to TR levels, since that would just make the Harasser more effective overall. The Marauder is just an improved Fury, try to make it more unique instead of just an upgrade.

- ZOE: Makes the VS MAX better at everything that makes a MAX effective. Not going to go into detail as rebalancing has already been discussed in many other threads. Basicly it's an ability that isn't overpowered by itself but becomes far too effective in the hands of a good player. It gives them the ability to instantly become far more effective where it counts.

NC/VS LMGs: Either give every faction an 0.75 ADS LMG or make sure that no faction gets one. Besides that the NC lack the option for a decent CQB LMG, when compared to the VS and TR, mainly because of the ADS modifier.

AV turret: The range needs to be reduced as it's too difficult for tanks to actually do anything about them at (Or close to) maximum range.

NC MAX: Is still and will apparently continue to be too effective in CQB. Needs to be rebalanced towards all ranges and no longer be able to instagib at any range. Other threads have dealt with how this can possibly be accomplished. (Different chokes or replace with HMG like weapon). Basicly more versatile.

No reason for me to bring up MAX AV weapons as they are already going to get rebalanced.

[Dodgy Commando]

So you want to keep your CQB godmode, while also getting good long-med range option? Don't you think you're asking for too much?
If you want NC to have a long range pistols (yes, pistols. DPS of single arm of TR AI MAX is the same as a pistol), you have to give TR/VS some OMGWTFBBQ instagib close range option.

Edit: also it has been mentioned by Higby what it's the TR MAXes who are "underperforming" and going to be buffed, not NC ones.

I would gladly give up this 'godmode' you talk about. I never use my NC MAX outside of AA and long-range AV duties. It simply is not fun or useful. I'm sure many enjoy the CQB aspects, but I don't think its worth the cost of the versatility that the other faction MAXes enjoy. If changing this could also appease those who don't like being on the receiving end of the Scatmax too, then everyone's a winner IMO.

I think MAXes in general need looking into, personally. My main issues are ZOE; Fractures vs infantry; and the ineffectiveness beyond short range of the NC MAX (especially the latter).

Also the Vulcan, although I do not face it very often (quit vehicular combat for some time now), seems pretty damn good but I have no valuable input on how to change it. Nor do I want to jump on a nerf train. Maybe leaving it as is and looking into the C85 Modified could be a better idea. I like these specialised roles, but it appears they are either utterly useless or OP (Airhammer).

Finally, although more akin to wishful thinking, crewed MBTs. I have willingly stopped using my Vanguard because of this, despite having spent certs and SC for cosmetics. This is in favour of the Lightning however (when I occasionally do hop into a vehicle).

-e-
Engie AV Turret!!! I confess I've unlocked it, and feel bad for using it in such a cheesy way as has been mentioned. You're too vulnerable to use it in a more conventional manner, and on the other hand you're practically invulnerable using it in the 'cheeky' way. Personally, I can't blame people for using it like this currently.

The design is pretty bad too, tbh. I know I'm no artist, but it looks clunky when compared to the MG Turret. I would look into making it bigger than the MG variant but sleeker than the current iteration, while adding a shield too. You're fighting armour with it, but they can shoot you back with nasty consequences. You are also more likely to use it in open terrain and are therefore more vulnerable to sniper fire. Maybe a headshot shield that goes down after one sniper rifle shot, but regenerates after a set amount of time.

[torokf]

They're on PTS already. 40 meter range now around the beacon. Not sure about instant action though.

You didn't read through Malorn words, the changes would be so that no more attackers would have a chance to deploy on the top of the AMP main facility rooftop for example, or even close to the inner buildings, that's what you would like and that's what he said, the less "steereable" drop pod is a thing, but there is also this that we still haven't implemented altough we need since always, the metagame in this game evolves, it has now reached the point where EVERYONE abuses the drop pod and sunderers have no expectancy of lasting more than 2 minutes, fair fights have been killed and or you zerg with 10 sunderers (which means you outnumber heavily your opponent) or you won't fight at all.

They used to balance the gameplay aspect every couple months max, but since they started working on Optimization the quality of life of the gameplay have been dropping ever since, and it's now down the pit, The game is still awesome but it just doesn't work.
And that should be their next priority, content might have to go in hold again, point given there are people that works on stuff and other on balance etc. etc.

Took your post to explain my thoughts,
The changes have been worked out months ago, they simply never made it into the game yet, and now we need them more than ever,

A Resource Revamp to address Vehicle / Max, spawn methods
and an Updated Drop pod behaviour and Requirements, All for a better gameplay.

[MGP]

Give Prowler an ES weapon that works with lockdown.
I'm tired of making a "should i pull a Prowler with Vulcan, or Prowler with lockdown", decision every time I'm pulling a tank.

[Mastachief]

The striker (and lockons in general) They need a substantial nerf or the counter measures need more potency.

ZOE max, why this is still in the game who knows. Bring the run speed down a touch and completely nerf the strafe.

LOLpod spam, remove the splash damage completely. They did this in ps1 to resolve the same issues that exist in this game.

Fracture, way too powerful especially against infantry.

Vulcan, still too powerful and the other empires have no equivalent.

Marauder, essentially a buffed fury....

Grenade bandolier, not only does it add more spam but coupled with conc grenades it makes any tactical hold impossible. Remove it.

[Jax Blake]

LoL

Striker, Fracture, Vulcan, Marauder, Zoe, well at least you got one non TR specific item in there.

LoL

[Mastachief]

LoL

Striker, Fracture, Vulcan, Marauder, Zoe, well at least you got one non TR specific item in there.

LoL


I have 7 characters only 2 are NC.

ZOE max certed
Fracture bought
Striker bought
MCG bought
Vulcan bought
LOL pods allround

My comments reflects the current balance in the game and i haven't even started on the easy mode nature of all the TR infantry weapons that is back up by the stats. The NC has a one trick pony and that is the Scat max and this trick is rarely an advantage over other maxes. The VS are slightly better off with nicer infantry weapons and the scythe is a dream to fly and lets not forget ZOE. The TR have it best all over.

[MGP]

I have 7 characters only 2 are NC.

You have lost all credibility when you claimed a few days ago that Striker is fire-and-forget. If you had a TR toon, you'd know what more then a month ago Striker was changed to "maintain lock" system. Go troll elsewhere.

[Taramafor]

First: Fix the damn bugs. That turret bug for one. A bugged weapon is imbalance incarnate.

Second: TR harasser weapons do seem a bit effective. That's not in itself a bad thing in a way, the real problem is the other factions not being as efficient. Ergo, tweak/add weapons to theirs to make them just as effective as the TR's. As for this talk about their armor being too much... Really? The armor's fine. Rockets and tank rounds make them retreat and normal weapons damage them. No amount of armor nerfing will change the fact that they zoom past and take cover then repair and I don't think some people are going to he happy unless all harasses are blown up by simply being touched by a strong wind. Remember when aircraft got armor nerfed?

Third: MAXES. An NC max has a big ass shield. That's ok since it can't attack with it up and an NC max SHOULD be affective at close range as NC favor CQC. The Vanu MAX however gets to be faster and strafe while still shooting. Now here's the important thing, a TR MAX digs in and becomes an easy target and the trade off isn't worth it, especially when MAX weapons swat normal infantry like flies anyway. NC and Vanu MAXES are efficient and mobile against ALL targets. TR MAXES aren't. There's little point of them digging in and being an easy target for a deci rocket. And when was the last time you saw people using that ability? Only seen it once in a blue moon myself.

[Mastachief]

You have lost all credibility when you claimed a few days ago that Striker is fire-and-forget. If you had a TR toon, you'd know what more then a month ago Striker was changed to "maintain lock" system. Go troll elsewhere.

Thank fully I couldn't care less what you think.

[Hmr85]

My biggest issues.

1.) Vulcan - It needs to be toned down some. Right now it just destroys everything.

2.) MAX's - They need abit of a rework.

2a.) NC MAX - Extend the shield around the max some more. Right now it hardly covers anything and I am still taking damage through the shield.

2b.) TR MAX - Help the poor TR out and give them a different ability. Lock down is horrible.

3c.) VS MAX - I hate to say it but ZOE needs a rework. Hows its stayed in the game for so long in its current state is anybody's guess. cut down on the run speed a tad and get rid of Strafing completely. This has got to be looked into.

3.) Harasser - I agree with everybody right now that the harasser is way to strong. There really is no drawback to using it at the moment.

4.)C85 Modified - Please for the love of god completely rework this weapon. It is beyond horrible. I really can't stress this enough.

5.) Camo Coverage - Please rework the camo coverage. The way you guys handled the Camo rework was horrendous and could of been done way better. I don't mind the faction colors being present since that seems to be what "everybody wants" but baby blue?? Why not give the NC their faction color of Royal blue? Also please get rid of the sports bra and Assless chaps.

[GeoGnome]

With the NC lack of versatility, I never really understood something, the short range option that I have always seen for the NC max is relatively evident. As to medium range there are sparrows or slugs. With long range, it's sparrows again.

What I have heard NC people straight admit, is that they want a medium range Gauss saw strapped to their arm. The problem with this, is that you can't give one faction a weapon and not give something to the other factions.

Currently the NC have this advantage at Close range, while the other two factions are better at medium and long range. If the NC max is to get something that is good at range, then the other two should get something that is good at another range.

So, if the NC are to get a machine gun, the VS and TR could an ES flamethrower.

As the flamethrower is a short range weapon, it would be totally useless to the NC... giving the NC another short range weapon wouldn't make a lot of sense. The TR could get a straight flamethrower, and the VS could get a plasma thrower or a short range variant of the lasher.

[Dodgy Commando]

Once again, why is this necessary? Remove the short range advantage, simplify MAX engagement ranges and balancing.

[Hmr85]

I don't care if the other factions have a CQC weapon. However, if the NC are going to be the CQC shotgun faction (Like we always have been since PS1) I expect the NC to have a better version of the shotgun than the other factions.

Just like I would expect the TR and VS to have better medium to long range versions of their weapons compared to the NC.

Why is it necessary you ask? I don't want every faction to be a carbon copy of each other with a different skins just for balance sake. That makes it dull and boring. I prefer to keep the faction traits.

[Emperor Newt]

ZOE - nerf the starfing speed. Then look if it brought it in line. Then think about another change. Please no overnerfing again.

Harassers - gt rid of repairing on the move. That should solve a lot of issues people have with the Harasser (on all factions) as it needs to retreat to repair like ever other vehicle. No need to nerf their health or armor. Just start here and see what it does. And no, pushing "F3" and your left mouse button is not "requiring skill".

Harasser TR guns - bring them in line. You basically put weapons on Harassers which downside is supposed to be that the are ineffective over longer range. Which isn't exactly a problem for the Harasser to begin with. Those weapons are just flawed by design when put on a Harasser.

Please put some road stops in there to stop people from driving Harassers on roof tops, inside buildings, inside tech plants and so on. Especially not when you give them insanely good AI weapons...

Rocketpods: just get rid of the splash. Or at least reduce it by a lot. Reward people for actually aiming these things.

Fractures and Comets are too effective as AI weapons

Lightnings needs more rights to exist. Between the MBT and the Harasser the space for the Lightning as an equally effective weapon has been getting very small. Especially when it gets stuck in every f*ing terrain ditch there is.

NC weapons and NC max ability needs some heavy, hard hitting love (because nc likes it that way)

Your empire specific abilities made charge for maxes pretty much obsolete. It has never been a good ability to begin with.

Vanu weapons: reduce their effectiveness when fired from the hip. In return reduce the first shot recoil. It's ridiculous on some weapons. It actually punishes you for aiming at the head as well as burst firing! Maybe even trade it in for some more recoil overall. I am pretty sure most Vanu would take more consistent recoil over this stupid first shot recoil any time. (nc of course suffer from the same problem)

Don't hide essential upgrades like burster extended magazine behind a 500/1000 cert wall.

[Dodgy Commando]

I don't care if the other factions have a CQC weapon. However, if the NC are going to be the CQC shotgun faction (Like we always have been since PS1) I expect the NC to have a better version of the shotgun than the other factions.

Just like I would expect the TR and VS to have better medium to long range versions of their weapons compared to the NC.

Why is it necessary you ask? I don't want every faction to be a carbon copy of each other with a different skins just for balance sake. That makes it dull and boring. I prefer to keep the faction traits.

Fair enough, and I agree with you about assymetrical differences (even if they clearly tend towards a balancing nightmare). Asking for HMGs or what-have-you for NC MAXes does not neccessarily mean exact copies of their TR or VS counterparts. You can still add factional flavour within those parameters.

-e-

Your empire specific abilities made charge for maxes pretty much obsolete. It has never been a good ability to begin with.


I have to disagree with your evaluation of the MAX Charge ability. I think it is still very useful. Whether that means the ES abilities are to be put into question is open for debate (e.g. Shield not good enough vs Charge). They may need tweaking, but I don't think they are fundementally flawed per se. Although situational, Charge still has its uses. Which is fine, it makes it a worthwhile choice among the other ones.

[Cookiecrumbs]

Mordelicius and Chip already listed my main gripes:

-ZOE damage avoidance / in-combat speed (without any delay or cooldown !)

-AV Mana turret range (add a longer spawn cooldown to the fix as well)

-Harasser durability and effectiveness:

make it more susceptible to various damage types, especially AP ordnance
goodbye backseat repair
fix should also include as a first equalizing pass:
Vulcan-H -> like Saron and Enforcer variants: 50 damage less than MBT variant instead of only 30
Marauder-H -> -2 magsize and slightly longer reload (= longer than the Fury)


Last but not least:
rework Enforcer Modified and TR MAX ability, Higby pls :groovy:

[Nur]

We are too much talking about ZOE Maxes, but the real problem is not the single MAX.

Is the MAX spam everywhere not only in MAX crashes.

Even the new guy can buy a 250 AI right arm and jump into the fray with other MAXES.

And this is true also for TR and NC. NC are making crashes on biolabs and nobody can stop them. Biolabs, Tech plants are fights with MAXes. You don't have them? you lose.

I also agree with most of the point of Mastachief, except on the striker that I do not consider OP as it is not usable anymore against AIR. Still decent against vehicles though.

Most of my outfit changed to grounder for the AA.

[DredVS]

Harassers - gt rid of repairing on the move. That should solve a lot of issues people have with the Harasser (on all factions) as it needs to retreat to repair like ever other vehicle. No need to nerf their health or armor. Just start here and see what it does. And no, pushing "F3" and your left mouse button is not "requiring skill".

There is a need, and Higby agrees. On the latest Command Center, he stated that AP rounds should one-shot Harassers.

Which makes sense. It should not have the armor of a Lightning tank. Because it's not a tank.

Source (vid skips to 26m 43s): http://youtu.be/qdBB63LKoR8?t=27m3s

[KarrdeBRBU]

To those saying Striker is maintain lock, ok I'll give you that. I haven't pulled my TR toon out for quite a while. In any case, it doesn't feel like it's maintain lock. I'm still routinely getting repeat hits after breaking lock and moving behind large obstacles. I took a full clip after popping smoke as well. Something is broken then and needs fixing.

NC MAX is fine. Don't nerf it's CQC capacity, it's fine that it be king of close range. Get LAs or a few heavies together. I don't want everything in this game to be a reskin for each empire.

ZOE is honestly fine. Sure, it's deadly in the hands of a skilled player, but so is everything else. It has a nasty tradeoff. Give it an AD nerf if really needed but if you start in after the overall speed or damage buffs the increased damage you take makes it not worth it. As it stands there are plenty of situations I would have survived if I'd had dash vs ZOE (and ZOE got me killed).

TR MAXes could use some med-long range love, though maybe not on the same weapon. Would be a fair trade for making the fracture not so deadly against infantry.

[Sirisian]

See if you can notice a pattern if you read all the comments about this so far from the community.
Reddit (http://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/comments/1p0ah1/higby_what_are_your_top_concerns_for_balance/)
Official Forum (https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/what-are-your-top-balance-concerns-in-planetside2.155147/)

You'd think there would be something telling in the general game design of an open world MMOFPS if every weapon and vehicle is listed as having balance issues. Makes one think there might be a larger design issue at play here than merely all the parts that make it up. Waiting for the developers to realize this as it was pointed out multiple times throughout Planetside 1's lifespan.

[Lord Mondando]

Fractures and ZOE as max abilities are too versatile. that's not to say they should not be powerful at something(s). Its just they work in too large a range of situations.

Specifically fractures are just too good at killing infantry. Damage nerfs I don't like, but doing something about the fact you can spam them out at a fast rate may be preferable.

Yes ZOE makes a max running around on his own deadly but vulnerable to fire. Problem is, if your playing as a team with maxes like that your doing it wrong. The Armour offset is negated by having good engi jockies and so en mass with significant engi support they work in nearly every AI situation. My big gripe here has never been the damage, its that a speedy max, is a max with its primary weakness removed.

Harrassers, could be more vulnerable to small arms and significantly more vulnerable to AV. Think that would solve most of the problems there.

And Nanoweave. It makes anyone who's played the game enough to invest the 1500 (or whatever it is 1750) certs into the full tree a distinct level up from a new player who has not. Unless your running dedicated anti-tank and need more rockets, or a rev nade medic, you'd be stupid not to choose it.

But still, its imbalanced to the point where even if they make flak armour more viable, in 70-80% of situations, why woulnd't you run it.

Oh yes, marauder and vulcan. Prehaps objectively there are fine, but in realation to the sauron and the proton.. its a distinct step up. And relation to the Nc's dart gun and.... vehicle shot gun, its a night and day difference on a distinct sliding scale of amazingly versitle in a range of AV/AI roles. To generally quite good but mostly for AV/AI exclusively to. Good at AV, no chance against infantry with it.. and a shotgun... outdoors why the hell am i using this.

There are certainly a raft of issues with AA/Air and AV/Vehicles as well.

[Taramafor]

There is a need, and Higby agrees. On the latest Command Center, he stated that AP rounds should one-shot Harassers.

Which makes sense. It should not have the armor of a Lightning tank. Because it's not a tank.

Source (vid skips to 26m 43s): http://youtu.be/qdBB63LKoR8?t=27m3s

I could get behind this. Though perhaps not quite as far as one hit kill. But next to dead, sure. Would give people a reason to take AP turrets instead of HE to spam on spawn rooms.

[GeoGnome]

See if you can notice a pattern if you read all the comments about this so far from the community.
Reddit (http://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/comments/1p0ah1/higby_what_are_your_top_concerns_for_balance/)
Official Forum (https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/what-are-your-top-balance-concerns-in-planetside2.155147/)

You'd think there would be something telling in the general game design of an open world MMOFPS if every weapon and vehicle is listed as having balance issues. Makes one think there might be a larger design issue at play here than merely all the parts that make it up. Waiting for the developers to realize this as it was pointed out multiple times throughout Planetside 1's lifespan.

Not really.

It means that you are on the internet. I occasionally hear people complain about things that are totally pointless, that doesn't mean that what they are saying is true, it just means that they have an opinion.

If every single weapon in this game were to be perfectly balanced, if there was mathematical proof of this balance... People would still say things were overpowered and underpowered because of perception. The only way to eliminate that is to remove all faction identity and give us all the same weaponry.

[MaxDamage]

Harrassers piss me the frak off.

[mrmrmrj]

Let Lightnings use MBT/Harasser secondaries as their main guns.

[Eggy]

^^ The lighting AP cannon is allready one of the highest DPS AV weapons in the game.
For a 1 person light tank they do a massive amount of damage.

If they nerf harrasers too much it will have a massive knock on effect.
Its not partculary balanced to allow 1 guy in 1 tank to insta gib 2-3 guys in another vehicle.
Make it pointless to pull it and it wont get used.

On one hand its the only thing keeping most of my buddies playing.
Its a dedicated driver vehicle thats both fun to drive and gun.
Nerf it too much and all those harraser teams go find something else to play.

Or they just all swap back to 1 man MBTs and we end up with tank spam all over again, and that wont last because the PS2 MBTs die too easily to infantry and so again they go find something else to play.

[typhaon]

Should also mention...

Battle Rifles - these guns are good at nothing, have been utterly ignored by devs... and a lot of people paid real $$$ for them.

[typhaon]

repost

[Sirisian]

I occasionally hear people complain about things that are totally pointless, that doesn't mean that what they are saying is true, it just means that they have an opinion.

If every single weapon in this game were to be perfectly balanced, if there was mathematical proof of this balance... People would still say things were overpowered and underpowered because of perception. The only way to eliminate that is to remove all faction identity and give us all the same weaponry.
You found the pattern and the solution. While some people's balance complaints are unjustified, the complaints against most empire specific balance issues are glaring with no obvious solution. The mathematical proof for balancing PS2 doesn't exist primarily due to a lack of constants which exist in other game genres to tightly control the outcomes. Players asked for asymmetrical balance because they thought it would give factions identity, beyond their colors, and make situational encounters between different factions unique with faction unique playstyles. An admirable goal, if only those differences couldn't be exploited by different skill levels in such an extreme fashion often generating playstyles that are impossible to match.

You don't have to remove faction identity, it just needs to be refocused to very unique graphics, sounds, particles, and lore. You can still have imbalance in the form of certs for specialization (in fact it can be expanded greatly), but the concept of cross-faction imbalance is removed. So is 4th factioning to use locked-in playstyles. (That is there is no incentive, unless the devs force it with WDS type events). There's a large spectrum of balance issues that are solved through normalization. The best part is like you said about perception. If you put a player that was new to the game and they saw all the weapons and only played one faction it would be only their perception that things are different. The difference in particles, explosions, projectiles and tracers already uniquely define weapons that are similar in the game. With competent art and sounds the perceptions will remain unchanged maintaining faction identity. Tons of examples here (http://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/comments/1onz2i/harasser_data_courtesy_of_the_oracle_of_death/ccu1as1), but my favorite one is imagine if Comets and Fractures were identical with certs to increase damage or rate of fire. Their graphics immediately set them apart with their unique sounds and explosions.


Battle Rifles - these guns are good at nothing, have been utterly ignored by devs... and a lot of people paid real $$$ for them.
I like that gun. I'm at like 1800 kills. It's a very unique playstyle that takes some getting used to. Strafing around targets and ignoring close quarter battles. It'll win against most HA weapons one on one at range.

[camycamera]

Link to Twitter post (https://twitter.com/mhigby/status/392775742339031041)

So there is the question: What would you like to see balance wise.


My biggest one is that if the lock-on changes are to be applied to the Striker, they should be applied to all of the other lock-on launchers.
i agree. the striker is not balanced when compared to all other lock on launchers, it was nerfed quite a bit, and makes it more skill-based. giving all lockons this will nerf them and make them more skill based.

although i think bolt action snipers need a buff when it comes to headshots and nanoweave. it should be a OHK in the head regardless of range. the only ones who should be able to survive a OHK headshot should be a heavy with his overshield on and obviously a max.

nanoweave though should still have the same effect on bolt actions if someone is body shot by one, however, however.

a headshot from 200 meters away should be rewarded, as it takes some skill and compensation to achieve such.

[MerlO]

I think the first balance pass should start with the glaringly obvious harasser. Give harasser changes a few weeks to settle to assess, then move on to the next area to be balanced.

[torokf]

Let Lightnings use MBT/Harasser secondaries as their main guns.

DAMN you got me Excited there, Now I want my C85 Enforcer modified Lightning :cry:

[KesTro]

I've got a fully certed out harasser and I got to say I wouldn't mind if we could get one shot by an AP tank, perhaps two shot by a prowler? OR at least leave us close to becoming a smoldering hunk of junk if we had high enough composite. There's a theme I've noticed with what people say is OP and that's maneuverability. Reverse Maneuver, ZOE speed, Harassers speed. These things on top of what else they bring really do create a pretty big power creep the more their platforms get certed out. Just throwing another thought out there.

[Obstruction]

no offense to anyone in particular but i see a lot of scissors crying about rock.

i don't see harasser as OP, as i have no trouble taking out harassers from the air with impunity.

also, as air we have our own direct counters. it may suck when we get swarmed by lock ons or ESFs but that's just the game. i try not to complain about it, we just suck it up and get back in the fight.

just because something counters something else in 1 v 1, or slaughters disorganized infantry, doesn't mean it's inherently OP. it's a combined arms game, and meant to be played with team oriented tactics at the forefront.

i understand and appreciate most, if not all of the concerns listed here. still, i think it's important to remind everyone invested in the discussion that the game has never been and probably should not be balanced for lone wolf play.

this is especially true for MBT vs harasser. MBT is just weak outside of a heavily supported position, while a lot of players seem to expect every unit to perform equally on it's own.

[KesTro]

Perhaps. All I'm saying is when four vulcan harassers can take out six fully crewed MBT's. There may be a problem hah.

[ringring]

The balance between attack versus defence.

[typhaon]

I've got a fully certed out harasser and I got to say I wouldn't mind if we could get one shot by an AP tank, perhaps two shot by a prowler? OR at least leave us close to becoming a smoldering hunk of junk if we had high enough composite. There's a theme I've noticed with what people say is OP and that's maneuverability. Reverse Maneuver, ZOE speed, Harassers speed. These things on top of what else they bring really do create a pretty big power creep the more their platforms get certed out. Just throwing another thought out there.

Across the board - in terms of combat effectiveness - I think that's one of the elements SOE has significantly underestimated.

[typhaon]

no offense to anyone in particular but i see a lot of scissors crying about rock.

i don't see harasser as OP, as i have no trouble taking out harassers from the air with impunity.

also, as air we have our own direct counters. it may suck when we get swarmed by lock ons or ESFs but that's just the game. i try not to complain about it, we just suck it up and get back in the fight.

just because something counters something else in 1 v 1, or slaughters disorganized infantry, doesn't mean it's inherently OP. it's a combined arms game, and meant to be played with team oriented tactics at the forefront.

i understand and appreciate most, if not all of the concerns listed here. still, i think it's important to remind everyone invested in the discussion that the game has never been and probably should not be balanced for lone wolf play.

this is especially true for MBT vs harasser. MBT is just weak outside of a heavily supported position, while a lot of players seem to expect every unit to perform equally on it's own.

Care to enlighten us as to what faction you play and your character name?

[Mastachief]

i agree. the striker is not balanced when compared to all other lock on launchers, it was nerfed quite a bit, and makes it more skill-based. giving all lockons this will nerf them and make them more skill based.




Baahaaaaahaaaaa

Man the striker is still easy mode and still doesn't require you to maintain lock (i was using it last night) Took 2 scythes down whilst reloading watch my missiles still tracking and then killing their targets.

All lockons need a range and damage nerf Bring it back to 300m and 20% reduction in damage increase the projectile speed a little. ESF's need a lolpod splash nerf (near 0 splash), bring all lolpods inline with the TR's in the way they work and remove thermal/NV from the lolpods. (pull the pheonix damage down a little and give the lancer damage deg, and reduce the range and power of the AV turret.)

This way armour will be a little better than the paper it currently feels like but without buffing their damage output.

ESF will still be able to hit armour and infantry provided they can aim.

ESF won't die so easily to strikers/lockons that blot out the sun. Opening the skys up to dogfights.

[MGP]

Baahaaaaahaaaaa

Man the striker is still easy mode and still doesn't require you to maintain lock (i was using it last night)

Stop spreading your pathetic lies. I doubt you even got a TR toon.

[ChipMHazard]

You are free to disagree with someone elses opinion but don't make it personal. Personal disputes are best kept to PMs.

[Mastachief]

Stop spreading your pathetic lies. I doubt you even got a TR toon.

You have a real hard on for me don't you? I don't swing your way... sorry.

[GeoGnome]

You have a real hard on for me don't you? I don't swing your way... sorry.

Stop spreading your pathetic lies. I doubt you even got a TR toon.

Would you two kiss already? The internet can barely contain the fiery passion you both possess for each other.

[isilyan]

Would you two kiss already? The internet can barely contain the fiery passion you both possess for each other.

John Paul Young - Love Is In The Air (1978) - YouTube

:groovy:

[MGP]

You have a real hard on for me don't you? I don't swing your way... sorry.

Next time you decide to lie, find something that is not so easily refuted.

(sorry for the crappy quality. First time uploading something.)

Vs Harasser:
STFU #1 - YouTube

Vs Liberator:
STFU #2 - YouTube

Vs Scythe:
STFU #3 - YouTube

Notice how rocket looses the lock immediately as i unzoom.

[Mastachief]

Next time you decide to lie, find something that is not so easily refuted.

(sorry for the crappy quality. First time uploading something.)

Vs Harasser:
STFU #1 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCJ1zl19cX0)

Vs Liberator:
STFU #2 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zz2zmvMFAag)

Vs Scythe:
STFU #3 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvyNAxxCRVM)

Notice how rocket looses the lock immediately as i unzoom. Now, Mastachief, please find yourself a nice big hole to hide your shame in. You're pathetic.

No thanks my missiles don't have issues following and hitting. Looks like a learn to play issue to me.

[ChipMHazard]

I've just tested the Striker a dozen times or so and on only one occasion did the missiles not fly off when the lock was broken. [I broke the lock by switching to another weapon, not by waiting for the enemy to break lock. So that might be an important difference.]
When I had the locking on icon on them the missiles still hit, for the most part. [As in not the locked on icon but the locking on icon, so going from the former to the latter still meant my missiles hit most of the time]
Might be a miscommunication as to what is meant by lock and breaking said lock.

Edit: Reloading also makes the missiles fly off.

[Jax Blake]

Perhaps. All I'm saying is when four vulcan harassers can take out six fully crewed MBT's. There may be a problem hah.

Your fully crewed MBT's are awful, find sauron and enforcer gunners who can aim and watch the harassers die a horrible death.

[typhaon]

Planetside 2 would be (was) better without Harassers, Infiltrators with SMGs, and ES MAX abilities (ZOE).

[Timealude]

Planetside 2 would be (was) better without Harassers, Infiltrators with SMGs, and ES MAX abilities (ZOE).

yes then you had people complaining about how infiltrators were just an invisible sniper instead of a stealth class, people complaining about the lack of 2 man vehicles and how MAXes lacked something.

[KesTro]

Planetside 2 would be (was) better without Harassers, Infiltrators with SMGs, and ES MAX abilities (ZOE).

I loved harassers when they first came out. Can't say the same once they added the ES weapons to 'em.

[Mordelicius]

So you want to keep your CQB godmode, while also getting good long-med range option? Don't you think you're asking for too much?
If you want NC to have a long range pistols (yes, pistols. DPS of single arm of TR AI MAX is the same as a pistol), you have to give TR/VS some OMGWTFBBQ instagib close range option.

Edit: also it has been mentioned by Higby what it's the TR MAXes who are "underperforming" and going to be buffed, not NC ones.

First I don't use Maxes at all, but I repair them alot. The difference between NC Max support vs TR/VS Max support is NC Max can't take out their support from Mid-Long range. So when I'm crouched-follow trying to repair the Max as it walks towards the enemy I often get blasted first.

As for the "CQC Godmode", the TR or Vanu wouldn't exchance places with NC, but NC would!

Raiders of the Lost Ark - Why Guns Are Better Than Swords - YouTube

Lastly, underperforming? Is that why the Fracture is finally getting nerfed?:) TR Max aren't underperforming at all. It's a misinterpretation of information. TR are far invested farming with Marauder/Vulcan rather waste their time on a TR Max:rofl:

[ChipMHazard]

Lastly, underperforming? Is that why the Fracture is finally getting nerfed?:) TR Max aren't underperforming at all. It's a misinterpretation of information. TR are far invested farming with Marauder/Vulcan rather waste their time on a TR Max:rofl:

Popularity is taken into account.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AshlLUNJ_SE8dDBEQVFWS3hQQnZETWp1SmRZYk1oS Wc&usp=sharing#gid=1

The popularity of both the TR and NC AI MAX is more or less the same. The NC MAX does have a higher KPU than the TR MAX. That probably has to do with the NC MAX being what it is, a CQB killing machine, and being used as such.
If SOE ever decides to make the Scattermax more versatile at the expense of being able to instagib infantry in CQB then it will probably balance out.
But I don't really think the TR MAX is really underperforming overall when compared to the NC MAX, all things considered.