The sniper nerf.

[Taramafor]

They're going to make BOLT ACTIONS NOT KILL AT LONG RANGE. Defeating the whole purpose of being a proper sniper. To get in a kill you must headshoot at LESS - yes, LESS - then 150m. A sniper rifle is a sniper rifle and shouldn't act like... Well, a none scoped rifle.

Meaning semi auto for long range as a bolt will never kill anyone at long range, defeating the purpose of having a bolt unless you're in the 150m mark, where semi auto's are more useful anyway (Way to get people to not buy weapons). Do the devs even know how difficult it is to get in an effective shot at such long range? First of all, you have to make sure they're not moving for an easy kill. And even if they ARE moving, that makes it even MORE difficult to shoot them as you're already having to look up and keep the target at the bottom of your crosshair (if not off the crosshair altogether), attempting to compensate for distance all the while. All while holding your breath and hoping you get the shot in time before the scope sways like crazy.

Now granted, snipers can be annoying in certain games (see Heroes and Generals for an example. Lots of wide open space with little cover would be why) but we're talking about a game with multiple classes and vehicles and lots of people. And, you know, buildings and rocks for cover. It can suck to get snipped at by some guy from a hill, but you can always grab a tank with HE rounds, or snipe yourself, or grab an aircraft (the number of times I landed behind one before disposing of them...), or, you know, MOVE IN AND TRY TO FLANK, which is what people are not doing because most of the game is a short attention span twitch fest. But there is strategy and tactics involved and getting off your ass and pulling yourself away from the main unit/zerg/battle for awhile to make surgical strikes is what can turn the tide of battle. I see this nerf doing much more harm then any good, taking away a threat and making infiltrators all but useless unless you stick with SMG's, which I would have PREFERRED to have been taken away instead as that would then mean an infiltrator has a useful roll which is different from close range killing which all classes can do. Not saying they should though as I can understand that people have been using them and are liking them, but an infiltrator with an SMG is more annoying then one with a sniper to me (the excuse for this nerf is that being snipped at long range is annoying). But it's war. Tank HE spam, again, annoying. But it's war. Libs? Hate the things when they have rockets (Splash damage reaches through doors) but again, war. Heavy using super shield when I'm not one? Yep, same there. Or worse, meeting a max as a none max without a rocket launcher? Yep, same there. But the point is it's a battlefield and it should act as one and bad things should happen. And snipers are one of those bad things (for better and for worse) and it's not like only one side has them. But for crying out loud, this damage reduction at range just makes no sense as it forces people to use only semi auto sniper rifles at long range as that's the ONLY way you'll even have a CHANCE at getting in that second shot, and if you miss (which you probably will having let the target know he's getting shot at now), he'll most likely just get healed before moving along. I was just getting into the sniper role and now that role has been stomped on and this might be something that'll put me off playing truth be told (the only thing keeping me going is the outfit and a hope of the game getting proper content added at some point). And as for those "boo hoo, sniped at long range complaints" look as what a sniper has to deal with at close range (which is mandatory to capture a point). And of course, let's not forget that they'll rarely looking behind them, leading back to flanking.

So to sum it all up, rant, range logic, rant, make time to eliminate them instead of ignoring them, rant, range logic again, rant, inefficient at short range, rant rant rant, flank.

Could have probably ranted less there but damn this makes me mad and I'm going to tell it like it is.

P.S: Thread made to prevent complaints of this leaking into other threads (which it most certainty has. The patch updates was nothing but complaints about the nerf). So post what you think of the possible (already implemented?) nerf here.

[Dougnifico]

Hey man, I advocated that all bolt-action head shots should be insta-kills and that a bipod/tripod should be available. Be careful, I was damn near crucified. lol

[HereticusXZ]

Just like in the other thread about it...

150m is BS, that's not Sniping, at all, don't kid yourself. Playing a Sniper is about extreme range, slow, single head shot kills.

250m might be generous in a Snipers tolerance but any "Single Head Shot Kill" should NOT be limited in range or damage with Sniper Rifle because they struggle as is to impact a battle beyond thinning the herd at the attackers Sunderer Spawn, Picking off Heavy Lock-On nests, Eliminating enemy Engineer Turrets, or Counter Sniping.

New base designs as is favor Close Quarters Combat and severely cripple if not all out deny a Snipers talents completely, forcing them to hide outside the facility where the Vehicles want to fight.

Nerfing a Snipers Single Shot Head kill is a lazy solution IMO to solve a petty complaint "I had no defense to a Sniper when I was standing still, He one shot my face! That's not fair!", Hmmmm, bullets in the head shouldn't kill?

What I suggest to solve the average Infantryman's complaint to Snipers would be new Suit slots. If Flak protects against explosions and Nanoweave protects from small arms, then "Reinforced Helmets" will protect against head shots, make it a cert line like everything else with varrying degrees in resistance.

Other solutions include Shield Yawnings for AMS Sunderer to protect Infantry as they spawn (Some people might remember the energy shields the AMS Galaxy had in Beta), Sunderer Defensive Slot Stealth Field just like in PS1, or Engineers Deployable Shield Barricade to replace Turrets. All of these are creative and simple additions to solve your Sniper problem, Not nerfing the Sniper.

I don't want the 150m Sniper Head Shot limit and it feels like to me that PS2 is drifting further and further away from diverse massive battles and instead forcing the majority into CQC or not at all.



In all reality though it looks like every Sniper or Long-Range player came out of the wood work and complained about the "possible, still in concept stage" nerf with no one in the "Snipers OP" camp contesting them. Though nothings official I wouldn't be surprised if they abandoned the Sniper nerf entirely.

[almalino]

It is so difficult to headshot moving target from any distance and especially hard from 150+ distance and yet they remove that ability from us snipers? Lame.

Anyway, I'm much better sniper now with Engi Mana turret noways :) 1 hit kill with guided endless misles from miles away - priceless. And I can kill vehicles too. Why bother about snipers at all?

[ZephyrBurst]

I was okay with the 150m limit at first, given that Infiltrators have cloaks, but that's not really related. I'm fairly against the range limit as of the last week. Lately I've been going back to long range sniping (250m-300m out) and thinking about this upcoming change while doing so, and it feels like the change isn't well thought-out and panders to complaints from bad players. I feel if there just has to be a limit, 250m is fair... I suppose.

There's just so many moments in the last week where my sniping would have been fairly useless in slowing the enemy down. HA and engineer nests have been my prime targets lately and this change would have made my role ineffective for no reason. I was out 280m from the targets. There was little chance to get in closer to that 150m range. Sure I could find a way around, but that would have taken far too much time given that terrain. My goal was to remove as many AV as fast as possible. 150m is simply not enough distance.

[Plaqueis]

If/when this nerf comes, they should refund the bought weapons and wasted certs on the people who have invested on the ability to use sniper-rifles as they're supposed to. I've bought V10, Parallax and Rams .50 bolt-actions and certed both 10x and 12x scopes for all of them. This nerf makes them completely useless.

Hell, they're underperforming as it is; 1st, the rendering range already limits the full use of the magnification of the said scopes. 2nd, it's ridiculously hard to aim at anything with in the timewindow of 'holdbreath'. 3rd, there's practically no real cover anywhere on any of the 3 continents, only cover you have is the cloak and camo (which really isn't much). 4th, (i'm so gettin heat from saying this), the weapons are already too weak. Hell, the Rams is supposed to be a 50cal.. i mean go on youtube and do a search for 50cal/12,7mm rifles and see what they're really capable of (iirc the longest confirmed kill with Barrett was almost 3000 meters...) Their performance in game is pathetic to say the least...

I have 1800+ kills with v10, few hundred with both Parallax and Rams, and almost every single one were on static targets at current max range (few lucky shots on moving ones here and there). If they shorten their range even more, the bolt-actions will be completely useless, i can't even imagine using a semi-auto from that close, you'd be better off with some hard hitting LMG/Battle rifle with 4x/6x sights...

[Thunderhawk]

I cannot envisage any possible reason why OHK above 150m (on heads only no less) will be removed from the game....

I really cannot fathom the reasoning behind this, bad move by the devs

[synkrotron]

I'm newly into sniping and I have come to find it addictive almost to the point that it is now my default class if I am "operating" alone. Just so you know where I stand with the class...

So, I too cannot understand why one hit headshot kills should be removed over a certain distance.

I can assure anyone who has never tried sniping that it is, in itself, limited over distance, for all of the reasons expressed above (holding breath, moving targets, bullet drop etc. etc.).

And I have to agree with all of what Taramafor has written in his long post there. Every word... no exception.

[War Barney]

I know! and they nerfed every other gun in the game a while ago to not get easy 1 shot kills with no risk at all! they should make every gun in the game 1 shot kill so its all balanced!!

Please stop crying that you can't 1 shot kill people with no risk at all... its a complete and utter joke that you think its ok to kill people from a distance so great that nobody has a clue you are even there. Just accept that you wont be able to get kills with lucky head shots now. You do realise that most of the time people are injured anyway so its not even going to be that bad, the only thing it really affects in rambo snipers roaming around 1 shotting people then stealthing away.

If you want 1 shot kills over a certain range you must also surely support 1 shot kills from shotguns below a certian range, after all its far more risky to get in close to hit people so if anything you must support 1 shot kills with a shotgun even not hitting the head.

[almalino]

If you want 1 shot kills over a certain range you must also surely support 1 shot kills from shotguns below a certian range, after all its far more risky to get in close to hit people so if anything you must support 1 shot kills with a shotgun even not hitting the head.


No risk? If you get spotted enemy snipers will start hunting you. They can shoot you the same way you can shoot them. I see no problem here. snipers have a lot of risk and spend a lot of time to get to a good point for sniping.

With your logic we must ban all aircraft because they can kill me and I cannot kill them as a sniper.

[War Barney]

No risk? If you get spotted enemy snipers will start hunting you. They can shoot you the same way you can shoot them. I see no problem here. snipers have a lot of risk and spend a lot of time to get to a good point for sniping.

With your logic we must ban all aircraft because they can kill me and I cannot kill them as a sniper.

Is an aircraft really small and capable of stealth? didn't think so...

[almalino]

Is an aircraft really small and capable of stealth? didn't think so...


Aircraft has better abilities. It can fly very fast and appear from any direction in a blink of an eye. Sniper cannot do that.

[Taramafor]

Is an aircraft really small and capable of stealth? didn't think so...

Does small arms fire counter a lib with rockets? didn't think so. Guess we should take away lib rockets because I'm 100% dead if I'm not a HA with asp or infiltrator. Boo hoo, no risk for lib. Either way, your comment has no merit as we're talking about killing and snipers, not clocking away (which is an ability an infiltrator has that one could use while sniping, but not in the example you have provided in the infiltrator/lib case).

Please stop trolling and be constructive with your comments. As for "no risk", there's plenty of risk with a sniper rifle at close range. And as I've already stated, snipers at long range rarely look behind them. Plus there's the fact that they can't tackle armor whatsoever, which balances out the class IMO (I've stumbled on suns/tanks uncloaked as an infiltrator and could do nothing. Even medics get C4).

[Badjuju]

At the very minimum snipers should be able to counter other snipers at range with one shot. I can see some arguments for this nerf as I have become very proficient at sniping enemies at range, moving or not. Im sure my harassment gets annoying. However it is incredibly rewarding when you make those more difficult shots, id hate to see that go.

I would advocate that they extend the range where you can one shot, or perhaps have no range limits, but give bolt actions a decent increase in bullet drop. This would make ranged shots trickier while also making other sniper rifles a little more relevant. Sniping is fairly easy in this game do to lack of drop, so I think they have plenty of room to make it more of a challenge before out right nerfing effectiveness overall.


Not all is lost though as the nano changes are amazing. I love close range sniping so ill be a happy boy in those regards.

[Timealude]

sad thing is with this nerf, there will be no effective ways to take out engy turrets without pulling some tank or using a rocket launcher and with the new changes to the recon dart, your pretty much useless at 150m

[Wahooo]

Anyway, I'm much better sniper now with Engi Mana turret noways :) 1 hit kill with guided endless misles from miles away - priceless. And I can kill vehicles too. Why bother about snipers at all?

sad thing is with this nerf, there will be no effective ways to take out engy turrets without pulling some tank or using a rocket launcher and with the new changes to the recon dart, your pretty much useless at 150m

There is so much wrong with this nerf. So much.
I've already railed on this in other threads.

Makes me happy I didn't re-up my subscription. They are obviously listening to the wrong people which is unfortunate.
So we don't get more continents because every inch of land has been hand done right? If you have spent time as a sniper and go run around and find sniping spots you will see that the land around bases has been designed for sniping at around 200m.

The thing is with this nerf, it isn't now about wait and see. It was a pants on the head retarded nerf decision to implement at all. No actual reason behind it, no real thought given to what sniping is or is not, and the way the games already designed features around sniping, as far as land layout and the function of the rifles.
The game was designed to have long range sniping as something to do.
The sniper rifles themselves... This nerf pretty much obsoletes 1/2 of all of the sniper rifles.
The VS12, SAS-R, and TSAR-42 become the default weapons. The 4x scope is plenty at 150M where it performs just like all of the others. Now at 150-250 the benefit of quick reload for two body shots to kill is the only benefit that matters. Since head shots don't matter, at all, beyond 150 because 2 body shots will kill, then you want to 2 shots faster, and a 4x scope is plenty to aim at the whole body.

V10, Parallax, XM98, Rams.50, SR-7, M77-B, NC14, EM4 Longshot, LA80 have frankly no purpose in the game any longer.

[Bocheezu]

If snipers want to make themselves even more useless by being even further from cap points, who are we to stop them.

[Lonehunter]

So many good points, I'm still too heart broken to post about it. This was the only infantry niche I excelled in, and they totally removed the concept of skill = reward. Doesn't matter how accurate, or how good at judging distances I am, my one perfect shot is stripped of any meaning. Now I just have to aim for the body and take twice as long to kill like everyone else.

[ZephyrBurst]

If I'm imagining this right, the damage dropoff at 150m would make it so it doesn't do at least 1000 damage on a headshot. So technically you're looking at 3 bodyshots past 150m. (Less than 500 damage past 150m.) That is if that's how this is implemented.

I like what Badjuju said. And while myself (and every other sniper) is super used to the current drop, I feel increasing the drop from 7.5 to something like 8 or 8.5 would be a good alternative to this. (Just don't ever change that bullet velocity, I've gotten pretty good at using those horizontal mildots on my Parallax for leading targets.) :P

[Taramafor]

So technically you're looking at 3 bodyshots past 150m.

Aw hell no!

[War Barney]

How about I'll support you in this if you accept the removal of all close range guns for infiltrators.... its bad enough that you have stealth and 1 shot from miles away, wanting to have that while being able to slaughter people up close thanks to stealth is just stupid.

Then again I guess people just get use to playing a OP as hell class so they don't know how to adjust to playing a balanced one again. Don't worry the fix will happen and you'll eventually improve to the point that you realise it was insanely OP 1 shotting from any range while also being gods of close up with stealth to escape anything

[ZephyrBurst]

The Scout Rifles seem fine for Infiltrators as they tend to take a bit more skill to kill reliably, well at least for taking out multiple targets. But SMGs should definitely not be usable by Infiltrators. I've been taking advantage of that lately as well to see how that works and it feels a bit broken. They're too easy to slip in and take out 2 or even 3 dudes, and slip out.

[War Barney]

The Scout Rifles seem fine for Infiltrators as they tend to take a bit more skill to kill reliably, well at least for taking out multiple targets. But SMGs should definitely not be usable by Infiltrators. I've been taking advantage of that lately as well to see how that works and it feels a bit broken. They're too easy to slip in and take out 2 or even 3 dudes, and slip out.

Exactly, I could live with snipers 1 shotting you from miles away if you knew it was all the could do, but they can also use among the best close range guns with stealth giving them the ability to appear behind people and kill them in a second or 2 then stealth off again. It annoys me no end dying to infiltrators on my heavy as they just appear behind me with a smg and kill me before I have a chance, hell even if they appear in front of you they will often get the kill as the SMG is just amazing up close and they get the element of surprise.

[Timealude]

The Scout Rifles seem fine for Infiltrators as they tend to take a bit more skill to kill reliably, well at least for taking out multiple targets. But SMGs should definitely not be usable by Infiltrators. I've been taking advantage of that lately as well to see how that works and it feels a bit broken. They're too easy to slip in and take out 2 or even 3 dudes, and slip out.

But that is the whole point of infiltrators in this game it seems. They are suppose to have stealth and be able to take out one or two guys. I would argue that infiltrators are very easy to see if you pay attention enough. In fact the only thing I think about the whole class is the fact they arent stealthy enough. This is why, along with other infiltrators, I want stalker cloak to be completely invisible. I wish there was a way to actually move the class focus more towards sabotage instead of actually killing targets. The only thing I really feel is a problem on infiltrators, as far as being too strong, is the ability to drop prox mines/bouncing betties before you die and allowing it to kill a group of people/

[Taramafor]

Ergo: it's not sniper rifles that are the problem but the SMG's (Or at least an infiltrator having both). I must admit that infiltrators cloaking around in a base with SMG's is a bit annoying at times. HOWEVER, part of the problem with this is the fact that one can simply exchange a sniper rifle for an SMG at a sun. Furthermore, ALL EMPIRES have infiltrators. All I'm going to say on this particular topic is that infiltrators should perhaps have a weaker close range weapon as they currently have the most powerful long range AND close range weapon, which is silly (As they can cloak and put a clip in your face). I will also add that infiltrators did not always have SMG's and that they were originally a sniper only class. Now that SMG's have been added, it seems obvious (at least to me) why people are hating on them now. The problem however is this. The devs have gone and added both weapons to the class and now, instead of taking one weapon away (which should probably be SMG's and switched for some more automatic rifles similar but better version of the SOAS), people are now used to using them and regardless of/when which weapon gets taken away (if this nerf is implemented it will be bolts) then people are going to be unhappy no matter which course of action is taken.

However, regardless, infiltrators have been snipers at heart and should remain as such. And like it or not, bolts are supposed to kill at long range provided you get in that shot (which is NOT luck but skill) and semi auto's kill in 2-3 whichever way which is fair as far as I'm concerned.

Now if you want the cloak/kill of the infiltrators fixed where SMG's are concerned, how about a second or 2 delay and not being able to shoot when decloaking (which might help with detecting snipers at longer ranges as well) or perhaps not being able to cloak back after decloaking for 2-3 seconds? (which kind of defeats the stealth aspect of the class somewhat but whatever, alternate solutions and all that) But this damage nerf is no solution period.

[War Barney]

But that is the whole point of infiltrators in this game it seems. They are suppose to have stealth and be able to take out one or two guys. I would argue that infiltrators are very easy to see if you pay attention enough. In fact the only thing I think about the whole class is the fact they arent stealthy enough. This is why, along with other infiltrators, I want stalker cloak to be completely invisible. I wish there was a way to actually move the class focus more towards sabotage instead of actually killing targets. The only thing I really feel is a problem on infiltrators, as far as being too strong, is the ability to drop prox mines/bouncing betties before you die and allowing it to kill a group of people/

They aren't hard to spot if you are standing right next to them and know you are looking for one if you don't though you wont spot then until you die generally thanks to the huge dps of the close range guns they can get. Hell they can even aim THEN decloak while still aiming for pinpoint accuracy killing people.

A delay of 2-3 on being able to shoot after decloaking would help but it would still perhaps not be enough as unless you hear the decloak noise chances are you still wont see them before they shoot you. If people want to 1 shot kill people from miles away they need to just remove all viability for a infiltrator at close range, hell the commissar is all they need anyway.

[ZephyrBurst]

Having both close and long capability isn't an issue since you can never bring both a Scout Rifle or SMG with your Sniper Rifle.

[War Barney]

Having both close and long capability isn't an issue since you can never bring both a Scout Rifle or SMG with your Sniper Rifle.

It is a problem because they have the best weapons for long and short range along with stealth to make them even more deadly. Hell I'd happily give up the use of rockets and the shield on my heavy to get stealth its an amazing tool.

[almalino]

part of the problem with this is the fact that one can simply exchange a sniper rifle for an SMG at a sun.

That is hardly a valid point since at a sun you can exchange infiltrator to any other class. MAX for example? :) With this logic we can say that any class is OP because at sun you can exchange it to Infiltrator with SMG.


Another point already mentioned here that infiltrator cannot use SMG and Sniper rifle at the same time. He needs to chose one and play only one on the battlefield. With Sniper rifles infiltrator is useless in close combat and with SMG he is useless in as a long range sniper.

So , in my opinion complains that infiltrator can use SMG and Snipers rifles are not valid because he cannot equip both at the same time.

Also if infils with SMGs are so overpowered why don't we see zergs full of infiltrators with SMGs attacking bases? Because people consider other classes more suitable and more powerful for close combat than infiltrators.

Infils can be annoying but not overpowered by any means.

I myself barely play infiltrators nowdays because Engi is my favorite class for today. I used to snipe a lot before. And I do not see infiltrators as a great threat. In close combat please do not ignore unclocking sound from infiltrator and you will survive. Also, move always and this will protect you from snipers.

Nothing is overpowered with infiltrators but I might see a reason why SOE want to nerf the distance. They want more epic fights when more people are concentrated on a smaller amount of land and not spread around. I do not support that. I want long range sniping to be available for people because it is already pretty damn hard as it is.

[Plaqueis]

Lol ffs.. the thread is about capping the ohk range of sniper-rifles which is already too short due rendering limit, please leave smg's out of this. Personally i couldn't care less if they just took them off as i've hardly used them (i have Sirius, Hailstorm and Ns7) as long as i get my certs back from them.

I also believe that people who whine about ohk's here are greatly exaggerating this and making it sound way worse than it is. I almost only play as footsoldier, and the rare times i get sniped are usually due my own mistake (standing still in the open for whatever reason). And i'm willing to bet that these same whiners get sniped just as much after the nerf, as most of the snipers are within the nerf-range anyways and carrying semi-autos.

Guys who enjoy 'real' sniping (at max range with a bolt-action, not wasting ammo on impossible targets, trying to hold the 1 shot 1 kill policy) are pretty rare i think, i'm certainly 1 of them. If this nerf is applied, it kills a part of the game that i and some others enjoy.

EDIT: How does this sound; tanks shooting shells beyond 150m range at infantry shouldn't be able to ohk either, it's unfair cause i didn't see the tank before it killed me. Same goes for that liberator above whos gunner ohk'd me with Dalton.

Retarded.

[DirtyBird]

/signed :p

Dont like it SOE.
Maybe its needed for the PS4. :rolleyes:

You changed my LA80 trying to force me to buy a Longshot and you reduced the ammo I carried as default.
Now you want to force me with in your 150m boundary.

The same boundary you fixed everyone popping in and out of so we could see them at 300m.
And I hardly think dying to a headshot at 200-300m is currently the top of everyone's must fix asap list, if at all.

Where do the complaints come from for you to even consider this rubbish?

[almalino]

EDIT: How does this sound; tanks shooting shells beyond 150m range at infantry shouldn't be able to ohk either, it's unfair cause i didn't see the tank before it killed me. Same goes for that liberator above whos gunner ohk'd me with Dalton.

Retarded.

Yep, let remove all OHK weapons from the game.

I think tank should not kill instantly you even if it drive over you body. Tank should do it at least twice to kill you :) Then everybody are happy bunnies.

Also when I fall from the high rock I should not die from it. I should die only if I drop from the second rock immediattely after the first one.

What else. Hmmmm. I need to think about it.

[almalino]

Could it be that Planetside engine has technical problems properly registering headshots from 150+ meters in heavy fights?

This is how enemy will feel after the nerf if I try to snipe him past 150 meters

http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/1376193523_cutcaster-photo-100757855-Bullet-between-teeth.jpg

[synkrotron]

and the rare times i get sniped are usually due my own mistake (standing still in the open for whatever reason)

A good point, in my opinion.

Guys who enjoy 'real' sniping (at max range with a bolt-action, not wasting ammo on impossible targets, trying to hold the 1 shot 1 kill policy) are pretty rare i think

As an aside, I found this interesting and I decided to compare stats. I know I'm pretty crap at most things I do in Planetside (or any computer game) but I thought I'd see how I fared, as a sniper, against one of the better guys.

So, I was quite pleased with myself really. When I look at how many headshots I've scored against my fire count for the Longshot, I'm currently at around 13%. My weapon accuracy is at 49% so I'm obviously not killing everyone with one shot, or even two (I sometimes waste bullets against the odd MAX, just in case).

13% sounds low but I've checked against Plaqueis' stats and I'm not a million miles away :)

Okay... back on topic........

[Blynd]

My view as someone who doesn't use infil very often and am not a good sniper when I do try I don't see the PPI t in this change. I regularly get killed by snipers who are miles away and I prefer that to being 1 shotted by a mana turret at equally long range. If anything they need to fix that nit snipers

[War Barney]

EDIT: How does this sound; tanks shooting shells beyond 150m range at infantry shouldn't be able to ohk either, it's unfair cause i didn't see the tank before it killed me. Same goes for that liberator above whos gunner ohk'd me with Dalton.

Retarded.

How about this, people keep on comparing inf snipers to vehicles that you need to spend resources to buy which would seem to be pretty strong proof that they are OP as hell and need fixing?

Retarded

[Plaqueis]

13% sounds low but I've checked against Plaqueis' stats and I'm not a million miles away :)

Nice work :) There's probably quite a lot better snipers than i am in game, but i do get nice streaks here and there. My V10 stats probably don't represent the whole picture as it is the bolt-action i started with and it too quite a while to learn the tricks. Parallax and Rams .50 give a better picture, although i've used them much less, Parallax maybe 8 hours, Rams maybe 15.

Parallax 581 firecount, 94 headshots
Rams .50 1420 firecount, 241 headshots

[Plaqueis]

How about this, people keep on comparing inf snipers to vehicles that you need to spend resources to buy which would seem to be pretty strong proof that they are OP as hell and need fixing?

Retarded

Do you think those rifles are free? Not to mention scopes and other optional stuff, then infil certing (ammopacks, mines etc) and so on..

If you mean being able to spawn them, what does that have to do with tanks ability to OHK infantry?

[War Barney]

Do you think those rifles are free?

Once you buy them for a few certs yes you can use them as much as you like, or has there been a change and it cost you 350 infantry resource to use a sniper rifle with a very long CD?

Seriously you people are trying to say snipers aren't OP as they can be compared to a TANK or LIBERATOR... do you realise how crazy you sound?

[Plaqueis]

Once you buy them for a few certs yes you can use them as much as you like, or has there been a change and it cost you 350 infantry resource to use a sniper rifle with a very long CD?

Seriously you people are trying to say snipers aren't OP as they can be compared to a TANK or LIBERATOR... do you realise how crazy you sound?

Again, what does that have to do with OHK'ing infantry from the rendering range? That's what people are whining about. If a rifle that's designed for exactly that can't do it, then nothing else shouldnt either. No OHKs from tanks or Libs beyond 150 meters, it's unfair cause people can't see them... simple. I didnt even mention that they dont even have to hit, a near miss usually suffices. A sniper has to hit a target few pixels wide in a timewindow of just over a second...

[Snipefrag]

Guys who enjoy 'real' sniping (at max range with a bolt-action, not wasting ammo on impossible targets, trying to hold the 1 shot 1 kill policy) are pretty rare i think, i'm certainly 1 of them. If this nerf is applied, it kills a part of the game that i and some others enjoy.

Ditto, that's my playstyle in a nutshell.. Although I do have other cards in my deck, 6/9 auraxium on infiltrator weapons. This change will be worse than the current situation, i would prefer as someone else suggested giving a reinforced helmet which is a trade off to nonoweave/flak which protects against OHK. At least that way it wont completely decimate my play style.

[Plaqueis]

Ditto, that's my playstyle in a nutshell.. Although I do have other cards in my deck, 6/9 auraxium on infiltrator weapons. This change will be worse than the current situation, i would prefer as someone else suggested giving a reinforced helmet which is a trade off to nonoweave/flak which protects against OHK. At least that way it wont completely decimate my play style.

Well, actually that wouldnt help either. Atleast for me roughly 1/4 of the headshots i get currently fail to kill the target. And to continue on that, not one single target that lives after i hit them, stays put and gives me another go. Now, if you think about the upcoming nerf, i will get no kills at all unless i'm closer than 150 meters, and at that point, i'll do well better with an LMG or Carbine than a singleshot rifle.

[GreyFrog]

My outfit doesnt run with Snipers and IMO they bring almost nothing to the game....BUT and its a big one. I still think they should be in the game, I know people really enjoy playing them and I understand that just because I don't think its good/useful doesnt mean other people havent played it in a useful way.

I think the worst thing about this nerf is that (last I checked) Infil snipers have some of the lowest SPM. It is by far the easiest tactic in this game to counter, don't stop moving between buildings, stay indoors where 99% of cap points are OR counter snipe.

Like I said on the official forums and got shot down for it. I get killed by a sniper about once every 4 hours, I've never seen the issue.

[Obstruction]

Seriously you people are trying to say snipers aren't OP as they can be compared to a TANK or LIBERATOR... do you realise how crazy you sound?

it doesn't compare in the least. the many, many ways it does not compare are too numerous and too vast for the scope of this discussion.

please just stop. i am trying to be nice, for the sake of all involved.

thanks.

[Tatwi]

While I felt that "heads were too big" (likely caused by loose/sloppy hit detection) and were often able to be hit without any real aiming on my part, I never felt the long range OHK was bad in terms game play. Limiting sniper rifles to 150m is crazy, if for no other reason than, why even have rifles at that range? Even an SMG or pistol can hit a person at 150m, while a shotgun with slugs can easily 3 shot at that range.

Does this not remove the utility/purpose of both the long range rifle and the high powered scope? If yes, what is gained in return?

[Snoopy]

I'd rather we just get rid of heavies ;)

[OCNSethy]

I suspect its going to get harder for people to find a niche in this game if this type of trend continues.

We have seen it for the flyguys, the tankers and now they are starting on the footslogers. Its getting to the point where the classes are devolving into a CQC mishmash.

Granted, I am bias. I do like to play both sniper and SMG infil but I do resent that my options for play style is being reduced further by this proposed nerf.

If I want to play a slow, cat and mouse game why cant I? Sometimes, I just cant be assed doing anything else.

I dont see the need to dicate that I have to play a shottie in the face, once more into the breech, charge of the light bridage style session everytime I log in.

Just leave it SOE. I would like to play the game in a way that is enjoyable for me, not someone else's idea of a fun time.

[Taramafor]

I suspect its going to get harder for people to find a niche in this game if this type of trend continues.

We have seen it for the flyguys, the tankers and now they are starting on the footslogers. Its getting to the point where the classes are devolving into a CQC mishmash.

Granted, I am bias. I do like to play both sniper and SMG infil but I do resent that my options for play style is being reduced further by this proposed nerf.

If I want to play a slow, cat and mouse game why cant I? Sometimes, I just cant be assed doing anything else.

I dont see the need to dicate that I have to play a shottie in the face, once more into the breech, charge of the light bridage style session everytime I log in.

Just leave it SOE. I would like to play the game in a way that is enjoyable for me, not someone else's idea of a fun time.

What he said. :D

[almalino]

What he said. :D

May be they are preparing to introduce completely new class - sniper ? Along with Infiltrator as a close combat class :)

[OCNSethy]

May be they are preparing to introduce completely new class - sniper ? Along with Infiltrator as a close combat class :)

I would welcome that. Diversity seems to be a little loved concept in this game.

Don't get me wrong, I have played this game for a year... That's unheard of for me to have a game capture my interest and imagination for so long. I would just like to have that enjoyment continue. :)

[Plaqueis]

May be they are preparing to introduce completely new class - sniper ? Along with Infiltrator as a close combat class :)

Yes please.

Just a thought that came to my mind; if theres 1 thing i'd change in the current infiltrator, it's the turret hacking. There's pretty much nothing i hate more than getting 'shot in the back' near a friendly base and losing a tank/plane (and with it the resources)... it just feels 'cheap'. Then again, dropping a mine behind the turret and then re-hacking it makes me chuckle every time.. :)

[Baneblade]

It is a problem because they have the best weapons for long and short range along with stealth to make them even more deadly. Hell I'd happily give up the use of rockets and the shield on my heavy to get stealth its an amazing tool.

So you would give up all the reasons to use a Heavy to gain all the reasons to play an Infil... why not just play an Infil?

Short range Infils have nothing to do with snipers. The two are antithesis of each other.

[Wahooo]

So you would give up all the reasons to use a Heavy to gain all the reasons to play an Infil... why not just play an Infil?
.

That's some Barney logic right there.

[TheAadvark]

SOE's approach to balancing is for the most part brain dead. For example for MAX Balancing, it took Chewy on PSU to present clear concise facts on the ability and kill statistics of each MAX and then have a good long discussion on the merits and demerits of each. SOE Dev's for planetside 2 at least just seem very amateur in their application of anything. They seem too impulsive at least in balancing.

It's been really frustrating and tiring to keep supporting this game, and the fact is when I want to get my FPS fix there really isn't anything else except PS2 (even after buying BF4). Just so tired.

[Emperor Newt]

Natural Selection 2 is currently in the Humble Bundle ;)

[Ertwin]

Honestly, what is wrong with taking more than two shots to kill a target? Grab a buddy, and focus fire. It's a giant war effort, you're part of an army, there's no need for you to kill in one hit.

If you want to lone wolf, aim for the injured people. Presumably wherever you're sniping, there are others around who can finish off anyone you hit, and vice versa.

[synkrotron]

Honestly, what is wrong with taking more than two shots to kill a target?.

Thanks for your input, it is really appreciated.

[HereticusXZ]

You hold a gun to someones head, pull the trigger, they die. Sad day for you but that's war.

This is a video game and this is war, There is a degree of tolerance that must be maintained concerning realism and what is practical for balance. I don't believe the headshot kill damage on a BASR range limit solves this supposed problem concerning how little the sniper actually makes a difference

The games famed tolerance is 600 players per facility, 2000 per faction, 6000 per server. Do you think it's reasonable to encourage and pack 600 players in a single zone, each pushing for objective points and not have to a degree some form of OHK weapon to thin the horde?

Or should we have 600 players all pushing one objective, each one 3-10 shots or more to kill, each one able to instantly revive full health via medic on the spot, each one able to instantly respawn and back to pushing the position in 10 seconds of spawning?

Without OHK weapons those long frustrating sieges stagnate, Thus why vehicles, Shotguns, C4, and other weapons exist to OHK and break the siege with epic charges.

When compared to more devestating OHK weapons, the single shot bolt-action sniper rifle barely scratches the battlefield unlike a Shotgun with extended clip that can wipe entire rooms, C4 that kills multiple squads with a single brick, AI mines that you never see until it's to late and more.

I really want to know the daily kill stats for Rams 50, Longshot, and the Parralax compared to daily shot gun and C4 kills.

[almalino]

I really want to know the daily kill stats for Rams 50, Longshot, and the Parralax compared to daily shot gun and C4 kills.

Very well said and stats would be nice indeed.

[Plaqueis]

When compared to more devestating OHK weapons, the single shot bolt-action sniper rifle barely scratches the battlefield unlike a Shotgun with extended clip that can wipe entire rooms, C4 that kills multiple squads with a single brick, AI mines that you never see until it's to late and more.

I really want to know the daily kill stats for Rams 50, Longshot, and the Parralax compared to daily shot gun and C4 kills.

Hush about the AI mines, they just gonna nerf them next now...

I also would like to see those stats.

[Taramafor]

This subject came up on my outfits forum so I thought I'd come back to chip in once more.

Long story short, it's obvious there are at least just as many people that will complain about sniper haters as there are sniper haters themselves. So why not undo the range nerf and let people play in the style they want instead of forcing people into CQC? Sniping at extreme range takes skill and they do play an importent part on the battlefield at LONG range with BOLTS and short-mid range with semi autos, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND WHICH IS WHAT THIS NERF IS DOING (semi auto is more effective at extreme range due to less recoil and double tapping).

Or, you know, we can always make shotguns cause less damage at close range and more at longer range. Or maybe not have grenades kill people in a blast.

I don't suppose there's been any change at all since then? Do they intend to fix this at all?

[Mordelicius]

This subject came up on my outfits forum so I thought I'd come back to chip in once more.

Long story short, it's obvious there are at least just as many people that will complain about sniper haters as there are sniper haters themselves. So why not undo the range nerf and let people play in the style they want instead of forcing people into CQC? Sniping at extreme range takes skill and they do play an importent part on the battlefield at LONG range with BOLTS and short-mid range with semi autos, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND WHICH IS WHAT THIS NERF IS DOING (semi auto is more effective at extreme range due to less recoil and double tapping).

Or, you know, we can always make shotguns cause less damage at close range and more at longer range. Or maybe not have grenades kill people in a blast.

I don't suppose there's been any change at all since then? Do they intend to fix this at all?
Snipers have been nerfed? They've been buffed early this year to 1-hit head shot any infantry except Max. Or are you referring to the headshot bug?

The effect of the sniper buff has been tremendous since not only it's a farm a machine but it also destroyed the combined arms flow. The old slow-walk toward the enemy base with engineer tank/max support is now prohibitive since the us engineers are getting sniped and the healers resuscitating us are getting sniped too.

One prime example is the bridge section west of Dahaka Amp station.. There used to be a bridge battle all the time there with tanks/sundies/maxes on the bridge. It's no longer doable since support infantry to repair and heal are getting sniped alot. Without support, Tanks/Sunderers and Maxes are easy to wipe.

The only way nowadays is brute force tank spam force multipliers or go around and sneak Sunderers.

[BlaxicanX]

How come your snipers aren't killing their snipers?

Wouldn't a true combined-arms assault have all of the classes contributing?

[Mordelicius]

How come your snipers aren't killing their snipers?

Wouldn't a true combined-arms assault have all of the classes contributing?

If you're attacking, the primary thing is to walk and secondary to shoot. That includes Tanks/Sunderers and infantry. Defense will always have the first shot. Only the Magriders (which is essentially a perfect tank devoid of any downside :huh:), are ground units that can effortlessly move/attack at the same time.

If it's a full foot infantry push, which is very rare nowadays (due to its very poor success rate), it gets picked apart by snipers.

If it's Tanks and Sunderer slow push with support, support (engineers) are picked off. Medics trying to revive the engineers get picked off next. Without support, those armor cover is dead. And without armor cover, you revert back the first case.

Hence, what's left is brute force tank/sunderer spam. Sometimes this is accompanied by aircraft, but it's basically that. That's what's been happening since the sniper one-hit headshot buff.

Secondly, if one is to think of balance as rock-paper-scissors with weaknesses and strenghts, a sniper is the only infantry counter to a sniper?
That's like saying a rock is the only counter to a rock.

That is why I always argue that Sniper stealth ability should be removed. There's no reason for a sniper to go close quarters, it can kill effectively at long range. So, what should be their weakness? They should be exposed just like everyone else except infiltrators.

If you match a Heavy assault vs Sniper, at a distance, Sniper will have advantage. At closer range, the Heavy Assault will have the advantage. How many shots can a sniper have at an approaching Heavy Assault before the person dies? On top of that, the Sniper can stealth? It's a very high reward, low risk class, that's why it's very popular, especially among new players.

What's different from the pre-sniper buff? It's not 1-hit shot in the old times. That gives support to take cover or get healed. One-hit and non-one-hit is a huge difference the Devs didn't take into account. Like I've said in my thread, the developers fix things that aren't even broken and break it themselves. http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?t=58373

[War Barney]

Snipers are one of the things that really ruins the game, you can't walk outside these days without being sniped and worst of all even if they dont 1 shot you they can 2 shot you or leave you almost dead. And aye its such a pain that you can only kill a sniper with a sniper as trying to reach them will end up with you dead or if you're lucky almost dead with the sniper stealthing off to safety.


The problem is sniping is normally balanced as you have a tiny % of snipers picking off key targets but in ps2 you have 100s of snipers all around fights so you literally can NEVER sit still, which completely destroys the flow of the game as you can't take cover and try to clear out enemies you are forced into pushing non stop as if you sit around in cover you'll just get sniped by 1 of the 100s of snipers trying to farm kills.


I get that people find being a sniper fun, whats not to like about 1 shot kills while being out of danger with a stealth incase anybody spots you? but they really do need to be controlled a bit better so we don't get this mass spam of them that we have now

[almalino]

I scare off snipers by switching to 1 shot mode that is very accurate and can kill snipre from 4 shots I think.

Snipers are one of the things that really ruins the game, you can't walk outside these days without being sniped and worst of all even if they dont 1 shot you they can 2 shot you or leave you almost dead. And aye its such a pain that you can only kill a sniper with a sniper as trying to reach them will end up with you dead or if you're lucky almost dead with the sniper stealthing off to safety.


The problem is sniping is normally balanced as you have a tiny % of snipers picking off key targets but in ps2 you have 100s of snipers all around fights so you literally can NEVER sit still, which completely destroys the flow of the game as you can't take cover and try to clear out enemies you are forced into pushing non stop as if you sit around in cover you'll just get sniped by 1 of the 100s of snipers trying to farm kills.


I get that people find being a sniper fun, whats not to like about 1 shot kills while being out of danger with a stealth incase anybody spots you? but they really do need to be controlled a bit better so we don't get this mass spam of them that we have now

[Figment]

Havn't been playing for a while, but my basic comments about sniping are:

1. shouldn't be cloaked.
2. should be more lethal at range and get disadvantage at shorter ranges (meaning the OP mentioned nerf seems counter intuitive). The longer the range, the harder it is to get a headshot so fair enough.
3. If you want to balance a hard hitting sniper rifle either reduce its clip, ammo or decrease refire rate.